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News & ArtsFriday, January 22, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Birthday Cads
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 1:22 PM
I've been involved with another guy for over a year. We live together and everything's great. He has always kept certain parts of his life private, which I respect. The only thing I've asked from him is that he doesn't cheat on me. I'd rather him just end it and we move on. Over the course of the year, I've met some of his other friends, some of whom are his ex-lovers. He would sometimes go out with them and spend the night. I would be suspicious, but I've always tried to keep my jealousy in check. There is one friend in particular who he has gone on weekend trips with. I've asked him point-blank if he's doing anything with his ex while going out, and he flatly denies it.Luckily for me, late last year his friend moved. Recently, my boyfriend received a birthday card from his ex. I saw it one day while I was cleaning up the house and decided to read it. I probably shouldn't have. But basically what the ex writes in the card leads me to believe that they've had a secret relationship in this past year and that the ex still loves him. Now, I don't know if it's one-sided or not. The ex is coming back to town for a visit in a few months. Of course my boyfriend has already informed me that he's going to "hang out" with him over the weekend.
My question: Do I confront my boyfriend? I can't really say I read the card, as he would flip out. Or should I let this go, as his ex will be out of our lives after the weekend? Am I a total pussy for even considering letting this go?
No Witty Name
My response after the jump…
Reading a birthday card that your partner—the man with whom you live—left sitting out in the apartment you share isn't the same thing as hacking into his e-mail account and reading his mail. So confront away, NWN.
But before you confront him, have a fresh think about your desire for strict sexual exclusivity. I think your boyfriend should be faithful, of course, if he made that commitment to you. And I think you have a right to demand a monogamous commitment from your boyfriend if sleeping around is a deal breaker for you. But I can't help but wonder just how important sexual exclusivity is to you, NWN, if you can just "let this go." If your boyfriend is violating the commitment he made to you with this ex, he's most likely violating the commitment he made to with the others ex-lovers he occasionally spends the night with.
If he's a cheating piece of shit and you have no desire to be in a nonmonogamous relationship, DTMFA. But if you've asked for a nonmonogamous commitment from him because that's what you think you're supposed to want, NWN, and then when confronted with the reality of his having cheated you feel you can turn a blind eye, well, maybe monogamy isn't as important to you as you thought. Maybe you want him more than you want monogamy.
I'm not saying that that's the way it is. It's just something to think about before you go and confront him with the evidence you found in that birthday card.
1
This is great. He may be on the threshold! I hope he takes the leap of faith and opens it up a little.
2
True that - don't take a moral/societal position just because it seems like the right thing to do: Make sure it fits with what you truly believe is important. Micro-morality. Good advice here.
3
NWN knows whether he wants monogamy or not. He made that clear in the first few sentences. Now he knows that his boyfriend isn't monogamous. So Dan's advice is right on the money - either NWN wants monogamy or he wants to spend more time with this particular guy. Seems like a pretty straightforward problem with a straightforward solution. All that's required is a decision. The confrontation part is just extra drama that won't change anything, not the secrecy, not the lying boyfriend, not the decision that NWN will ultimately make.
4
Sure, eval away on how important monogamy is to you. But if he lies to your face about this what else might he lie about? The dishonesty is why I say DTMFA. Granted monagamy IS imp to me so mebbe I'm projecting
5
While monogamy may be important to some and not important to others, the fact that he's a lying sack of shit should matter.
"I've asked him point-blank if he's doing anything with his ex while going out, and he flatly denies it."
So, if you confront him and he admits that he's sleeping with the ex-, are you willing to tolerate the lying? I'd be more concerned about the lying because you need to be able to trust that he's practicing safe sex when he's with other people - - for your own protection. Once someone has lied, it's hard to know when they're telling the truth again. Many relationships can exist quite happily without monogamy but few relationships can exist without honesty.
"I've asked him point-blank if he's doing anything with his ex while going out, and he flatly denies it."
So, if you confront him and he admits that he's sleeping with the ex-, are you willing to tolerate the lying? I'd be more concerned about the lying because you need to be able to trust that he's practicing safe sex when he's with other people - - for your own protection. Once someone has lied, it's hard to know when they're telling the truth again. Many relationships can exist quite happily without monogamy but few relationships can exist without honesty.
6
I'm still confused by the first sentence. What do you mean you're involved with "another guy"? You mean you've currently got multiple boyfriends, or are we supposed to know your last boyfriend? The former would seem to negate your current misgivings.
7
the sentence is ambiguous, but is likely meant to say, i'm a guy involved with a guy, meaning he's gay or bi. this took me a second reading to get straight.
8
@6 - I believe he uses the term "another" to indicate that he is a guy, as well.
Also: the value of nonmonogamy aside, if it turns out that he DID cheat on you despite saying he wouldn't, and then lied about it, I'd go ahead and say DTMFA. I don't care how much you like the guy, you can find an open or exclusive relationship with someone who is honest.
Also: the value of nonmonogamy aside, if it turns out that he DID cheat on you despite saying he wouldn't, and then lied about it, I'd go ahead and say DTMFA. I don't care how much you like the guy, you can find an open or exclusive relationship with someone who is honest.
9
@5 FTW. This isn't a white lie situation (Oh, I forgot to take out the trash because yadda yadda yadda) or a selective disclosure situation (I never told you i wasn't fucking other guys), but an outright lie...which will snowball into more lies which will end the relationship. Unless it's based on lies, in which case, what's the point of the letter.
DTMFA.
DTMFA.
10
@5,8: Yeah, that's what I picked up too ... he promised you honesty, and if he can't provide that, monogamy or not, then confront him.
You basically stated that cheating -- which isn't just sleeping with other people, but LYING about it, let's remember -- is a dealbreaker. So go for it. Ask him: WTF?
You basically stated that cheating -- which isn't just sleeping with other people, but LYING about it, let's remember -- is a dealbreaker. So go for it. Ask him: WTF?
11
Doug, I think he means another guy as in "I am also a guy". OK, openness- what do you say/do if you're OK with opening up the relationship but your partner isn't? I mean there's nobody else I want to sleep with, but I might in the future. My boyfriend says he never wants to sleep with anyone else. I wouldn't mind if he did, but where do I stand in this situation?
12
@11: Where do you stand? You just said you're OK with opening up with the relationship. That's where you stand, right?
I think the only question here is where *he'd* stand. Is HE okay with you sleeping around? Not every open relationship has to be two-way; some are one-sided. Some people actually do not care if you reciprocate their monogamy (I know one, so don't accuse me of a wild imagination).
I think the only question here is where *he'd* stand. Is HE okay with you sleeping around? Not every open relationship has to be two-way; some are one-sided. Some people actually do not care if you reciprocate their monogamy (I know one, so don't accuse me of a wild imagination).
13
@6, 7, 11 - Thanks, that should probably have been more obvious to me, but compounded with his next two sentences stating "we live together/everything's great/he's always kept his private life private", I was finding a hard time finding my footing.
14
5: totally agree. monogamy, open relationship, whatever: he lied, extensively, and i would find that hard to forgive.
6: "another" guy, because NWN is a guy himself. they are GAYGAYGAY!!!
6: "another" guy, because NWN is a guy himself. they are GAYGAYGAY!!!
15
But if you've asked for a nonmonogamous commitment from him because that's what you think you're supposed to want, NWN, and then when confronted with the reality of his having cheated you feel you can turn a blind eye, well, maybe monogamy isn't as important to you as you thought.
------------------------------------
I think you meant to write "monogamous commitment" in the first sentence.
------------------------------------
I think you meant to write "monogamous commitment" in the first sentence.
16
maybe i'm a spiteful jerk but i know that i would have a really hard time giving the guy the satisfaction of hurting me but me deciding that that's ok and he can keep doing it. i may realize that i don't care as much about monogamy as i thought but i'd let the next guy be the benefactor of that.
17
You asked him not to cheat on you (your only "demand" ie deal-breaker). He cheated on you. If he won't own up to it and isn't willing to talk it out (resulting in either an agreement on nonmonogamy or a promise to stop screwin' around), DTMFA. As it stands, the deception going on here will make things very ugly in a very short time.
18
It's easier to forgive than to obsess over the past.
That said, you should send back the card with a note from you.
That said, you should send back the card with a note from you.
19
This is one of the few instances where I'm going to have to possibly disagree with Dan and with nonmonogamy being the answer.
NWN, he sounds like he's a CPoS, or a the very least kind of a manipulative dick. It sounds like he has plenty of information to understand that his behavior bothers you and that he's stretching your trust to the breaking point. He keeps doing this stuff that clearly makes you uncomfortable and unhappy, and you don't indicate that he's made any gesture of compromise or reassurance, just "flatly denied it."
I'd give some thought to nonmonogamy, sure, but... I don't think that's the answer to this situation. Confront him, but don't base it on the card; base it on the fact that he's making you unhappy, and work toward figuring out what to do about that. I'd lay my money on this leading to a breakup, but I'm just a guy on the internet and I could certainly be mistaken about that.
Anyway, do something about this. At BEST he's being kind of a dick and owes you some additional consideration.
NWN, he sounds like he's a CPoS, or a the very least kind of a manipulative dick. It sounds like he has plenty of information to understand that his behavior bothers you and that he's stretching your trust to the breaking point. He keeps doing this stuff that clearly makes you uncomfortable and unhappy, and you don't indicate that he's made any gesture of compromise or reassurance, just "flatly denied it."
I'd give some thought to nonmonogamy, sure, but... I don't think that's the answer to this situation. Confront him, but don't base it on the card; base it on the fact that he's making you unhappy, and work toward figuring out what to do about that. I'd lay my money on this leading to a breakup, but I'm just a guy on the internet and I could certainly be mistaken about that.
Anyway, do something about this. At BEST he's being kind of a dick and owes you some additional consideration.
20
Dan's right about this guy's seeming ambivalence about monogamy, but he sounds like he's letting himself be taken advantage of by a complete asshole.
DTMFA and go find a nonmonogamous relationship with someone else.
DTMFA and go find a nonmonogamous relationship with someone else.
22
Also, and I'm surprised nobody said this, if you've been not using condoms, you need to go back to using them, pronto.
23
"If he's a cheating piece of shit and you have no desire to be in a nonmonogamous relationship, DTMFA. But if you've asked for a nonmonogamous commitment from him because that's what you think you're supposed to want, NWN, and then when confronted with the reality of his having cheated you feel you can turn a blind eye, well, maybe monogamy isn't as important to you as you thought. Maybe you want him more than you want monogamy."
I take issue with that. I think that Dan is usually quite correct in addressing the over-emphasis that is often placed on monogamy, but he seems to be giving this guy a pretty cheap pass, if not entirely free. NWN was explicit and forthright in his requirement of monogamy. Perhaps he made it for the wrong reasons, perhaps not. Regardless, it was verbalized and re-emphasized. If his boyfriend has indeed been sleeping around, then he's a CPoS. The issue then is no longer wanting him vs. monogamy, but wanting him vs. monogamy AND a boyfriend who isn't a liar. If he's lying about this, then he's lying about other things as well. DTMFA.
I take issue with that. I think that Dan is usually quite correct in addressing the over-emphasis that is often placed on monogamy, but he seems to be giving this guy a pretty cheap pass, if not entirely free. NWN was explicit and forthright in his requirement of monogamy. Perhaps he made it for the wrong reasons, perhaps not. Regardless, it was verbalized and re-emphasized. If his boyfriend has indeed been sleeping around, then he's a CPoS. The issue then is no longer wanting him vs. monogamy, but wanting him vs. monogamy AND a boyfriend who isn't a liar. If he's lying about this, then he's lying about other things as well. DTMFA.
24
Wait a minute -- we can't say for sure the guy is a liar. NWN is now simply *more* suspicious. I would be too... but it's still jumping to conclusions to assume the guy is a douche bag liar.
26
You, his live-in "one-and-only" boyfriend, are not allowed to read his bday card from his ex? You never should have agreed to "respect" so much of his "privacy". He's abused your misplaced trust. And when you confront him he'll either admit he's done the only thing you asked of him and cheated, or he'll lie, or he'll honestly say he's never cheated but based on his behavior you'll never really believe him. Suck it up and end it, drama optional. Only after you distance yourself from this secretive POS can you reevaluate your stance on monogamy.
28
1)If the card was put away, out of sight, in a drawer belonging to the boyfriend, it's private...if it was left out, then it's not.
2)This is another SL Letter with confusing gender...Dan needs to send them a form so they can check appropriate boxes so you know who's a pussy and who's a dick.
2)This is another SL Letter with confusing gender...Dan needs to send them a form so they can check appropriate boxes so you know who's a pussy and who's a dick.
30
I agree with 23 as well... I can appreciate Dan's view on open relationships, but I think he's a bit wrong on this one. If I were NWN, I'd look for someone who doesn't lie to my face about fucking other people.
31
DTMFA.
Yes, monogamy is overrated, and NWN could probably stand to reexamine their thoughts on this.
But the boyfriend flat out lied. He promised monogamy, and lied outright. If he wanted to see an ex on the side occasionally, then he needed to readdress the monogamy issue with the current relationship, not just unilaterally break his commitment and lie about it.
I would be highly reluctant to stay with him. Not because of the monogamy -- but because of the lying and hiding.
Yes, monogamy is overrated, and NWN could probably stand to reexamine their thoughts on this.
But the boyfriend flat out lied. He promised monogamy, and lied outright. If he wanted to see an ex on the side occasionally, then he needed to readdress the monogamy issue with the current relationship, not just unilaterally break his commitment and lie about it.
I would be highly reluctant to stay with him. Not because of the monogamy -- but because of the lying and hiding.
32
Am I the only one who's not ready to convict the bf of being a CPoS? Did anyone else read this: "basically what the ex writes in the card leads me to believe that they've had a secret relationship in this past year and that the ex still loves him. Now, I don't know if it's one-sided or not." Granted, the bf could be banging the ex, but isn't it possible that the ex is simply in love with him, and now the writer is reading more into the card than is actually taking place?
33
@32: Yeah, I thought of that as well, but I'm with the others: confirm the lie (or that you won't be able to believe him either way), and if he's a lying douche, then DTMFA.
Also, speaking as someone on fantastic terms with my ex and open to nonmonogamy, this guy is doing regular overnights with several exes and you've not made any fuss about it, but he'd flip out over you reading a card from one of them? Uh-uh. I had an open relationship with my ex, but there was a very clear stance from both of us about being honest about everything. This guy sounds like an asshole. And I agree with everyone else: this time, Dan is in the wrong. If the guy is fucking other people, this has nothing to do with monogamy vs. nonmonogamy and everything to do with they guy being a lying CPoS. If he's NOT, there are still major communication problems to work through.
Also, speaking as someone on fantastic terms with my ex and open to nonmonogamy, this guy is doing regular overnights with several exes and you've not made any fuss about it, but he'd flip out over you reading a card from one of them? Uh-uh. I had an open relationship with my ex, but there was a very clear stance from both of us about being honest about everything. This guy sounds like an asshole. And I agree with everyone else: this time, Dan is in the wrong. If the guy is fucking other people, this has nothing to do with monogamy vs. nonmonogamy and everything to do with they guy being a lying CPoS. If he's NOT, there are still major communication problems to work through.
34
I've read a lot of what Dan has to say on the subject of monogamy, but I know myself well enough to realize that I'll never be capable of a non-monogamous relationship. If I were the letter writer, I think I'd just go ahead and break it off with the guy, no confrontation necessary. After all, getting the cheating partner to admit that he cheated (if you can) doesn't mean he'll stop, just makes it more likely that he'll try harder to cover his tracks.
DTMFA.
DTMFA.
35
Sit the boyfriend down and find out he is cheating or not. If he is cheating then DTMFA. This isn't an argument over monogamy vs nonmonogamy. When you entered the relationship, your boyfriend agreed to a monogamous relationship. He made a promise to you and broke it. This promise was something very important and he knew it. Nonmonogamy is fine but the fact that he went behind your back and didn't talk to you first.
And about the card? I agree with Dan. If he left it out for you to find with casual cleaning, then he shouldn't spaz over reading it.
Someone also brought up the possibility that what's between the ex and your bf is one-sided on the ex's part. Keep an open mind over that as well. That could be the reason why your bf left it out. Maybe he knows how the ex feels and knows he doesn't feel that way. And because of that, it doesn't matter to him. Granted, he should have talked to you about that but it's a little more forgivable than cheating.
And about the card? I agree with Dan. If he left it out for you to find with casual cleaning, then he shouldn't spaz over reading it.
Someone also brought up the possibility that what's between the ex and your bf is one-sided on the ex's part. Keep an open mind over that as well. That could be the reason why your bf left it out. Maybe he knows how the ex feels and knows he doesn't feel that way. And because of that, it doesn't matter to him. Granted, he should have talked to you about that but it's a little more forgivable than cheating.
36
I suppose it should be considered private correspondence, but aren't b-day cards sent to a person who's part of a live-in couple typically shared? Or at least likely to be seen by the other member of the couple? It seems rather ridiculous that the ex would provide so much incriminating info in a simple card, and if the two were really having a relationship, the BF wouldn't leave it around.
All that being said, I think the letter writer's solution is quite simple. Instead of asking yet another third party about what it all means, talk to his boyfriend.
All that being said, I think the letter writer's solution is quite simple. Instead of asking yet another third party about what it all means, talk to his boyfriend.
37
Lying is not acceptable. People must live up to the agreements they make.
We don't have enough information yet to know how to apply these notions to NWN's situation.
We don't have enough information yet to know how to apply these notions to NWN's situation.
38
This is really bad advice, Dan!
monogamy/non monogamy is PART of the issue but so is the lying. If he's LYING about being monogamous, whos to say he's not LYING about using a condom with these exes?
Always drop lying sacks o shit.
monogamy/non monogamy is PART of the issue but so is the lying. If he's LYING about being monogamous, whos to say he's not LYING about using a condom with these exes?
Always drop lying sacks o shit.
39
Why the heck does everyone seem to hate monogamy, these days? Gay guys can have faithful, exclusive relationships; our romantic lives don't have to include a rotating buffet!
40
I think it might be the OPPOSITE of what Dan suggests. NWN may be uninterested in an open relationship, but worry (being a loyal Savage Love reader) that this desire may mean that he is not being GGG. Which I know is far from Dan's philosophy. Everyone is entitled to their own needs and desires, whether they monogamous or not, as long as they are honestly stated and honestly lived between consenting adults.
41
Someone mentioned this already, but isn't the 'another guy' designation a little odd? I have a hard time picturing a guy who was comfortably out of the closet phrasing his relationship exactly this way. I mean, if he was a clumsy writer in general, okay, but no - it sounds like he (the writer) is either bi-, new to being out, or very young and not accustomed to referring to guys he dates as just 'guys' and not 'other guys' (besides himself), or ... something.
Which is why I'm more suspicious that he's being taken advantage of by someone who should fucking know better and isn't following the campsite rule. Especially since the stakes are life-or-death.
Generally I agree with you, Dan, about non-monogamy ... but that issue is overshadowed by the dissimilar power play and the lying. DTMFA would have been a better (safer, for NWN) tack.
Which is why I'm more suspicious that he's being taken advantage of by someone who should fucking know better and isn't following the campsite rule. Especially since the stakes are life-or-death.
Generally I agree with you, Dan, about non-monogamy ... but that issue is overshadowed by the dissimilar power play and the lying. DTMFA would have been a better (safer, for NWN) tack.
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