Slog
News & ArtsThursday, January 21, 2010
Tech / Teh Internets A New Dimension in Piracy
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 4:33 PM
Futurismic points out that 3D printing is coming along quickly. And that means that piracy will follow along soon after. The Product Bay is a little one-page website that is embracing that future:
RepRap and other 3D printers are the future. There’s no question about it. With the proud tradition from The Pirate Bay, we want to take all of this to the next level. TPB will be TPB, but for real life objects. For now, visit Thingiverse who already understands this.We want you to download those new jeans.
We want you to share those new shoes.It’s possible, let’s make it happen.
I don't know if I can even wrap my brain around the economic shift that will happen if 3D printing (and the piracy that will follow) takes off.
2
Neal Stephenson tackled this issue ( in some parts of the web they call it Fabbing), and the e-book issue in "The Diamond Age". Though the Fabbers in the book were nanotech, the convenience concept is the same.
I'm sure going into this developers will come up with some kind of DRM; maybe have the files deeply encrypted (by a quantum computer no less) and only legitimate machines will have the 'key'.
Sometimes I wonder why I read SF, since every time I look up from the page the real world has caught up... Aw, who am I kidding, I'll still read SF even when we're going to Jupiter to golf on one of its moons for the weekend...
I'm sure going into this developers will come up with some kind of DRM; maybe have the files deeply encrypted (by a quantum computer no less) and only legitimate machines will have the 'key'.
Sometimes I wonder why I read SF, since every time I look up from the page the real world has caught up... Aw, who am I kidding, I'll still read SF even when we're going to Jupiter to golf on one of its moons for the weekend...
3
When 3D printers begin printing 3D printers, we'll be one more crucial step closer to Judgment Day.
I, for one, welcome our new... you know the rest.
I, for one, welcome our new... you know the rest.
9
I think we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Very few crappy monochrome plastic products derive their value from embedded IP. I can't think of any at all. Maybe those little green plastic soldiers? Are those protected by law?
To me, Espresso is much more exciting, though I have not heard a lot about how well it actually works.
To me, Espresso is much more exciting, though I have not heard a lot about how well it actually works.
10
Star Trek touches on this topic. With the invention of the replicator, traditional economics (and money) became obsolete. In the Star Trek universe, this transition happened pretty peacefully. In reality, it's gonna be a cluster fuck.
12
And this "Segway" (er - "RepRap") will change the whole world!
Perhaps I'm being simplistic, but wouldn't you be limited to being able to manufacture plastic component parts of solid objects? Even in the self-replicating example given, the machine can't make its own wire, or wood, or metal, and in addition to the time and materials spent to make the pieces, you'd have to put everything together yourself. It's economically feasible for most people to make their own furniture, but who has the time, motivation, and skill to assemble the parts?
And examples like jeans are even sillier: could a RepRap create (or even USE) the specialized textiles required for fancy jeans? And match the colors? And sew it all together? And get the sizing right for all possible measurements? You could, I guess, make a white plastic sculpture of a pair of jeans, but that's hardly the same thing.
I'm far more excited about the "organ printer" (http://www.rdmag.com/New-To-Market/2009/…) and food printer (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/01/…) that hit the blogosphere this week, but still fear that aside from the fundamental problem of keeping/assembling all the raw materials for everything you would possibly want to build/eat/assimilate inside your house at any given time, I'm always assuming that any kind of consumer-grade printer will perform about as well as this...(http://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers
Perhaps I'm being simplistic, but wouldn't you be limited to being able to manufacture plastic component parts of solid objects? Even in the self-replicating example given, the machine can't make its own wire, or wood, or metal, and in addition to the time and materials spent to make the pieces, you'd have to put everything together yourself. It's economically feasible for most people to make their own furniture, but who has the time, motivation, and skill to assemble the parts?
And examples like jeans are even sillier: could a RepRap create (or even USE) the specialized textiles required for fancy jeans? And match the colors? And sew it all together? And get the sizing right for all possible measurements? You could, I guess, make a white plastic sculpture of a pair of jeans, but that's hardly the same thing.
I'm far more excited about the "organ printer" (http://www.rdmag.com/New-To-Market/2009/…) and food printer (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/01/…) that hit the blogosphere this week, but still fear that aside from the fundamental problem of keeping/assembling all the raw materials for everything you would possibly want to build/eat/assimilate inside your house at any given time, I'm always assuming that any kind of consumer-grade printer will perform about as well as this...(http://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers
13
The key idea out of this is that the first generation machine is creating the next generation machines. Apply some robotics and AI to this and you have robots making themselves w/o any human interactions. Can someone say army of Robots?
14
@12 - I'm with you. The guy does say something about making a machine that can print copper so that it can print out circuitboards, but I think we all know that is ridiculous.
15
Personally, I can't wait until I can finally "print" glasses frames. I know exactly what I want but can't buy or commission them. We've had the technology for me to get "my" glasses for years. (I translated CAD/CAM software ages ago that could have handled it.)
Jewelry and personal decoration are the least important products you could obtain from a "fab lab," but they seem to find the best reception among Americans. Gershenfeld presents an interesting case for how people in developing countries could use 3D printers to vastly improve their lives. Imagine how quickly you could use this to finally fix the stubbornest food-water-shelter problems. Economically, people in these countries could then use the leisure opportunity to create and share products and designs that reflect awesome aspects of their culture the "global North" has never heard of.
Jewelry and personal decoration are the least important products you could obtain from a "fab lab," but they seem to find the best reception among Americans. Gershenfeld presents an interesting case for how people in developing countries could use 3D printers to vastly improve their lives. Imagine how quickly you could use this to finally fix the stubbornest food-water-shelter problems. Economically, people in these countries could then use the leisure opportunity to create and share products and designs that reflect awesome aspects of their culture the "global North" has never heard of.
16
Yeah. How many products are made of accretions of plastic in layers? Hardly any. Stuff has many more properties than just three dimensions; think of steel, which has grain and tensile characteristics. Products are also woven together and assembled in extremely intricate ways. Even if you could get one of these to "print" in materials other than hard plastic, a pair of shoes would fall apart after two steps.
Parts for a "child machine" are not a child machine.
Parts for a "child machine" are not a child machine.
18
Sir,
I have witnessd you're advertizing for a 3D printer and would buy one but my salary allows me to spend no more than $150 p/wk.
I would love to be able to see a pciture of a dog on the screen and get same made to order so I can have a company.
If this offer be amenable to you, send sase to Jimbo @ the Laundromat.
Sincerely
Tog
Sir,
I have witnessd you're advertizing for a 3D printer and would buy one but my salary allows me to spend no more than $150 p/wk.
I would love to be able to see a pciture of a dog on the screen and get same made to order so I can have a company.
If this offer be amenable to you, send sase to Jimbo @ the Laundromat.
Sincerely
Tog
19
Metrix Create Space on Broadway has a RepRap and two MakerBots, plus a laser cutter. Matt, the owner, was on Weekday on KUOW this morning, with a couple other "maker space" people.
20
The best invention we will ever see in the history of the world will be the replicator:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Replicat…
As it will destroy every old harmful myth about commerce and the value of money to humanity.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Replicat…
As it will destroy every old harmful myth about commerce and the value of money to humanity.
21
Neal Stephenson is old skool. Cory Doctorow"s new novel "Makers"deals with just this issue, I highly recommend it .
22
@8, a world without sunshine (and plenty of plastic junk:
http://seacat.files.wordpress.com/2009/0…
Speaking of sci fi and replicators (or "nanoforges"), I just finished reading Joe Haldeman's "Forever Peace", in which the first world nations own and ration access to nanoforge technology, inevitably leading to global war with the have nots of the third world...
http://seacat.files.wordpress.com/2009/0…
Speaking of sci fi and replicators (or "nanoforges"), I just finished reading Joe Haldeman's "Forever Peace", in which the first world nations own and ration access to nanoforge technology, inevitably leading to global war with the have nots of the third world...
23
This is only going to raise and reinforce prices and investment in raw goods, but for the first few years (like the internet evolution we've seen) everything will be free gravy.
25
yeah, uh... I mean, its not like you need a machine to copy someone's design. These things don't even work that fast. You can just reverse-engineer parts and stamp or cast them. This has been happening for half a century in China.
27
I love it, when we create things for ourselves we're pirates! When we help create things with anonymous people we're rebels breaking the law together!
There will be no need for economics if we are all the masters of our own creation, and we finally realize this point and gravitate away from this notion of a higher power controlling everything. You are the change we are waiting for, don't stand in my way by claiming my creations are already owned by some mega-corporation desperately trying to patent breathing, like their desire for economic dominance would have any place in a future for which they do nothing.
There will be no need for economics if we are all the masters of our own creation, and we finally realize this point and gravitate away from this notion of a higher power controlling everything. You are the change we are waiting for, don't stand in my way by claiming my creations are already owned by some mega-corporation desperately trying to patent breathing, like their desire for economic dominance would have any place in a future for which they do nothing.
31
and we actually use these 3D printers to fab parts for scientific machines, at least that's what Biochem and a few other departments at the UW do.
32
Depending on the physical properties of the melted plastic layers it's probably not all that helpful for creating finished products. But for creating prototypes or casts for molds that could then turn around and be used to create a finished product it'd be awesome.
These prototyping machines used to cost a million dollars about 8-10 years ago, the fact you can make one yourself for 500 euros is a huge leap forward.
Also, it can make coat hangars.
These prototyping machines used to cost a million dollars about 8-10 years ago, the fact you can make one yourself for 500 euros is a huge leap forward.
Also, it can make coat hangars.
33
It's funny how everyone seems to think this is going to lead to everything being free and making money and economics obsolete. Where do you think you'll get these replicators (assuming they can ever be made to make more than simple plastic crap)? Will they be giving them away on the streets? What about the raw materials it's printing out of? Will it just suck atoms out of the air to build out of? No, you'll have to buy huge piles of it from whichever monopoly gets in on it first.
Let's assume we can make these things print out useful things out of plastic. Do you remember where we get plastic? Oil. What happens when we run out of that?
Of course there's the economic aspects of R&D. Why will anyone spend the countless hours necessary to invent something new when they won't make any money off of it because some asshole is just going to print out a million of them for "free"?
I'm just saying I won't quit my day job waiting for this to make money obsolete. I wouldn't suggest my kids (if I ever have any) or grandkids hold their breath on that either.
Let's assume we can make these things print out useful things out of plastic. Do you remember where we get plastic? Oil. What happens when we run out of that?
Of course there's the economic aspects of R&D. Why will anyone spend the countless hours necessary to invent something new when they won't make any money off of it because some asshole is just going to print out a million of them for "free"?
I'm just saying I won't quit my day job waiting for this to make money obsolete. I wouldn't suggest my kids (if I ever have any) or grandkids hold their breath on that either.
34
@33
You seem to be overlooking that the people who made this machine did what they did under an open source ideology. Maybe they're going for something other than making money out of their ideas. Maybe there's some other useful goal they're trying to achieve. Of course you'll have to buy raw materials from people, but that doesn't invalidate the usefulness of this product.
Why don't you answer the question of what happens when oil runs out yourself? We'll obviously need to use something else. There are synthetic plastic made of plant cellulose which can be grown at home for very cheap.
To answer your question again, maybe there is a goal other than "making money" to providing people with the means to provide for themselves and others.
You're just Debbie Downer trying to distract people from creating a better world.
You seem to be overlooking that the people who made this machine did what they did under an open source ideology. Maybe they're going for something other than making money out of their ideas. Maybe there's some other useful goal they're trying to achieve. Of course you'll have to buy raw materials from people, but that doesn't invalidate the usefulness of this product.
Why don't you answer the question of what happens when oil runs out yourself? We'll obviously need to use something else. There are synthetic plastic made of plant cellulose which can be grown at home for very cheap.
To answer your question again, maybe there is a goal other than "making money" to providing people with the means to provide for themselves and others.
You're just Debbie Downer trying to distract people from creating a better world.
35
if perfected, and if not restricted, it can maybe undermine money. which is exactly what this world needs. imagine, a world without money. maybe that would take the perfection of nanotechnology someday. but if we are ever able to duplicate anything, good god
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