Slog
News & ArtsFriday, January 15, 2010
News Like I Said...
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 1:27 PM
...let's just annex Haiti—excuse me: let's just offer Haiti statehood—and get it over with. If Hawaii can be a state, why not Haiti? And if it kills Pat Robertson, hey, so much the better.
2
Cool! Then we can add Creole to our currency, postage stamps and ballots and all the xenophobes' heads will explode.
3
Well, for one thing if it was a state Americans wouldn't feel compelled to send millions of dollars for relief.
We always send the most money to help people that don't live here. Do you find people wringing their hands and tearing their clothes in grief about the ongoing poverty in New Orleans caused by Hurricane Katrina, no you don't. That is because in America we expect American's to help themselves and if you don't, too bad, maybe the government will help, but that is a pretty big maybe. It would be great if Americans would spend a fraction of the money they are sending to Haiti via text messaging and online donations helping reduce poverty and injustice in this country, but I won't hold my breath.
Haiti is much better served by existing in some sort of quasi-protectorate status. Then it can benefit from international aid and the generosity of Americans that too often let their generosity stop at their own borders.
We always send the most money to help people that don't live here. Do you find people wringing their hands and tearing their clothes in grief about the ongoing poverty in New Orleans caused by Hurricane Katrina, no you don't. That is because in America we expect American's to help themselves and if you don't, too bad, maybe the government will help, but that is a pretty big maybe. It would be great if Americans would spend a fraction of the money they are sending to Haiti via text messaging and online donations helping reduce poverty and injustice in this country, but I won't hold my breath.
Haiti is much better served by existing in some sort of quasi-protectorate status. Then it can benefit from international aid and the generosity of Americans that too often let their generosity stop at their own borders.
4
This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. I'm sure the international clamor for the US to annex its independent neighbors is just deafening. I wonder what they think of this idea in Puerto Rico? In Cuba?
6
I've been to Haiti. No infrastructure. AIDS rampant. Largely illiterate society. Ecological devastation caused by overpopulation, bad farming methods, deforestation. Wood is the primary energy source.
It would be impossible even to take a census. It would be easier annexing Afghanistan.
It would be impossible even to take a census. It would be easier annexing Afghanistan.
8
Haiti is a fucking bottomless money pit as it is. Annexing it would only make matters worse. This is an insanely stupid idea for that and many other reasons.
9
um, maybe we should give representation to DC first...being US citizens already...being already here...being like our capital 'n' stuff.....I support offering Haiti statehood and PR too but really .....DC comes first.....
12
Silly Dan... the US wouldn't annex any country unless said country had something to give back to them. AIDs doesn't count, and as harsh as it sounds, Haiti doesn't have very much else to give...
13
Maybe if we just stopped military intervention in Haiti every few years, stopped propping up crazy evil dictators, and stopped subsidizing agricultural products that would make farming worthwhile there, that would be just as good.
Hell, we've already got Puerto Rico (still not a state), and they're not entirely happy about it.
Hell, we've already got Puerto Rico (still not a state), and they're not entirely happy about it.
14
"Why in the fuck would Haitians want to demean themselves by becoming Americans?"
I don't know, why not ask the hundreds of thousands who came here floating on inner tubes.
I don't know, why not ask the hundreds of thousands who came here floating on inner tubes.
17
I'm pretty certain Mr. Savage is being tongue-in-cheek, but it would be a wonderfully useful reason to learn French.
18
Hmmmm....Haiti, Puerto Rico, Cuba, DC....and then if we Balkanize California (and heck, East and West Washginton), we could have ONE HUNDRED stars by the Semiquincentennial!!!
20
I like this idea. We could make them official territories and put them on a fast track to statehood, and then bring PR along to keep the stars at an even number (just somehow cleaner), and it would be the foothold of our inevitable Caribbean expansion. We'd get no-passport access to some really warm, freaky places with all the hot food and juju you could want. And our own devil's curse. What more could we want?
23
#3 wins the dubious honor of the dumbest thing posted on SLOG so far today. We'll spend more on the Haitians than attacking poverty in this country? The 2008 budget for the federal Food Stamp program -- just one of the various anti-poverty programs at both the federal and state level -- was $36.7 BILLION dollars. Billion, as in thousands of million. $36,700,000,000. Even assuming a ludicrous overhead of 50% (and actually, the food stamp program runs on a pretty damn admirable 5-7% overhead on average), we'd have to take the $100 Million figure being bandied about by both the Obama administration and the Red Cross and donate it to Haiti EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR in order to get anywhere close to just the Food Stamp program budget. And again, food stamps is ONE program, one government program no less: the total amount spent on poverty relief for Americans, including the government, private and church programs is substantially more.
24
There were excellent discussions of several aspects of the historical 'trauma' (for lack of a better word) this morning on KUOW. I do think that our reinstatement of Aristide (sp?) under Clinton was probably one of our better moments in Foreign Policy.
I think it could be argued that we owe Haiti some fairly massive repayment for the intentional deforestation and destruction of farmland post 1915's occupation. It could also be argued that the IMF did an enormous amount of harm, mostly on our behalf.
I am a committed donor to Partner's In Health, who have worked in Haiti for 20+ years. So it pains me to say that NGOs are probably an enabling factor in the ongoing weakness of the country and it's governance. Many progressive African activists have said the same thing about their own situation and have called on rich nations to stop sending aid. Heeding this request, I have scaled back my own giving, but I don't think it applies to an emergent situation such as we have now.
I think it could be argued that we owe Haiti some fairly massive repayment for the intentional deforestation and destruction of farmland post 1915's occupation. It could also be argued that the IMF did an enormous amount of harm, mostly on our behalf.
I am a committed donor to Partner's In Health, who have worked in Haiti for 20+ years. So it pains me to say that NGOs are probably an enabling factor in the ongoing weakness of the country and it's governance. Many progressive African activists have said the same thing about their own situation and have called on rich nations to stop sending aid. Heeding this request, I have scaled back my own giving, but I don't think it applies to an emergent situation such as we have now.
25
That said, annexing Haiti would be a terrible idea. If you want to help Haiti, there's two very simple things you can lobby your congressman to do: first, release immigration restrictions on Haiti, so that they can come to the states to work and send money home. Second, stop subsidizing and protecting America's sugar group, so Haitian farmers can have a chance in hell of selling into our markets.
26
(er, sorry, "EVERY DAY FOR HALF A YEAR" above. I had the math right, the english output not so much.)
28
Glad we're agreed - remember, fight fight fight for the Stars and Bars ... hey, if we changed it to stars and triangles then we'd have room for all 100 states by the tricentennial!
30
@25, great point about sugar. Especially since the "US sugar industry" is basically one guy. But don't stop there; all kinds of over-subsidized agricultural produce from America gets dumped on Haiti, thus undercutting prices to the point where it is impossible to earn a bare living farming there. Hence everyone moves to Port-au-Prince, on the slim but at least non-zero chance of a job, which leads to massive overcrowding in shantytowns, which kill everybody in an earthquake (among other ills).
The real ill here, as always, boils down to corn subsidies.
Hey, didja see that awesome pro-HFCS commercial on Project Runway last night?
The real ill here, as always, boils down to corn subsidies.
Hey, didja see that awesome pro-HFCS commercial on Project Runway last night?
31
@ 23 You may blow-hard with your numbers and your poor English output but I still contend that Americans react to disasters, natural and otherwise in a stronger manner when they occur outside their borders. Or perhaps I should say react in a stronger manner when said disasters are on the news for 72 hours. Their donations and ardor lapse when the images and sound bites fade.
The fact that our government (state and federal) spends BILLIONS, as you say thousands of millions, on food stamps and other poverty reduction programs and we are still cursed with hunger in this country just speaks to the point that Americans are a people that believe in bootstraps and if you can't pull yourself up by yours then too bad for you. Work harder or go hungry.
Food banks and shelters in Seattle are running out of food and funds to operate. Where is the hysteria around that? Oh, yeah...bootstraps.
The fact that our government (state and federal) spends BILLIONS, as you say thousands of millions, on food stamps and other poverty reduction programs and we are still cursed with hunger in this country just speaks to the point that Americans are a people that believe in bootstraps and if you can't pull yourself up by yours then too bad for you. Work harder or go hungry.
Food banks and shelters in Seattle are running out of food and funds to operate. Where is the hysteria around that? Oh, yeah...bootstraps.
32
#31: You are confusing "amount of media coverage" with "dollars and hours spent".
The fact that there is still hunger and poverty in this country despite what we spend doesn't mean that we favor the poor of other countries. It means that hunger and poverty are difficult problems, lacking easy answers. (The fact that no other government has made them go away in the last, oh, thousand years should be a hint.)
But by all means, keep contending that your gut instinct means you can ignore hard numbers. It is the century of truthiness, after all.
The fact that there is still hunger and poverty in this country despite what we spend doesn't mean that we favor the poor of other countries. It means that hunger and poverty are difficult problems, lacking easy answers. (The fact that no other government has made them go away in the last, oh, thousand years should be a hint.)
But by all means, keep contending that your gut instinct means you can ignore hard numbers. It is the century of truthiness, after all.
33
@ 32 Oh, please...truthiness? Throwing out "hard numbers" in a blog comment section and declaring it gospel could not be more "truthy." You would also do better to stop abusing quotation marks and English punctuation in general.
My point: Americans would do better to engage in regular charitable giving, internationally and domestically, lobbying the government to stop agriculturally policies that help big business and hurt local farmers (at home and abroad), than engage in hysterical chest thumping and one time charitable giving when faced with disasters in countries like Haiti.
My point: Americans would do better to engage in regular charitable giving, internationally and domestically, lobbying the government to stop agriculturally policies that help big business and hurt local farmers (at home and abroad), than engage in hysterical chest thumping and one time charitable giving when faced with disasters in countries like Haiti.
36
Also, nice attempt at goalpost-moving. Your actual statement:
"We always send the most money to help people that don't live here."
This is a trivially provable statement, since it involves nothing more than a measurement of money. Here's my assertion: you're full of it. Prove it.
"We always send the most money to help people that don't live here."
This is a trivially provable statement, since it involves nothing more than a measurement of money. Here's my assertion: you're full of it. Prove it.
38
@19, 22: Hey, Haiti's been having enough trouble, what with the poverty and the earthquake. We don't want to subject them to the American South.
39
It would be my guess that Americans donating money to Haitian relief efforts are acting out of compassion for an entire country of people that really couldn't be much worse off to begin with. As far as the comparison to public response to Hurricane Katrina goes--that took place in the US and the US is supposed to be equipped for disaster response. Given the wealth of this country, it was no doubt assumed that ample and effective relief would be provided. Of course we found out that wasn't the case, but that's not the point. Haiti presumably doesn't have anything like FEMA (or a billion-dollar food stamp program), even if it was worth anything. I think the fact that Haiti IS so isolated makes the disaster seem all the more urgent to people. Perhaps that isn't fair, but that doesn't mean it isn't legitimate, either.
40
@33: Over fifty thousand people are dead and nearly three million are without food, shelter, medical aid, or clean water. This is on top of the fact that Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere. Please either explain how Katrina was worse than this, or admit that you're full of shit.
41
"Haiti? [When I made those awful, vicious comments about that being an entire country of devil-worshippers who had it coming,] I thought they said Hades! People must think I'm an insensitive asshole!" - Rev. Pat Robertson
42
Haiti would not want to be annexed. Way back when, French colonizers brought slaves to Haiti to work them to death, but after the American revolution was successful the Haitian slaves decided they'd have one too. It is the first country to have achieved liberation by slave revolt.
They've been messed with a lot since then too and resent it -- they really value their independence. Just like we do!
They've been messed with a lot since then too and resent it -- they really value their independence. Just like we do!
43
danindowntown, OK so don't give money for Haiti? Save it for the next disater in the US? Vote Democratic? WTF do you want me to do?
It's not that difficult: There is an immense need. You have a lot. Give.
It's not that difficult: There is an immense need. You have a lot. Give.
44
Pretty sure Haiti is filled with a bunch of "bigots" by Dan's standards. He's so kind and generous now that tens of thousands of them are dead (gee, how sweet), but the moment they clean up the mess, they're back to being a bunch of uncivilized, ignorant, bigots. Dan Savage - compassionate to the max....er, something.
45
Annexing Haiti would be a plus for America; reasons: Bahamas, Dominican Republic and bermuda revenue in Tourist alone is overhelming. Bill Clinton's Organization is working to bring investors from all over the world to invest in Haiti. When Haiti recover from this disaster it would be a virgin/booming economy.
47
@30
Word. Our subsidization of agriculture is fucking criminal.
I heard a talk from a global health specialist one time where she listed her top 10 global health concerns. US farm subsidies were near the top of the list, because they cause so much poverty around the world.
We OWE Haiti.
Word. Our subsidization of agriculture is fucking criminal.
I heard a talk from a global health specialist one time where she listed her top 10 global health concerns. US farm subsidies were near the top of the list, because they cause so much poverty around the world.
We OWE Haiti.
48
If we could just peel Haiti off of where it is now and paste it on top of New Orleans nobody would be the wiser. Population of the Big Easy back up to pre-Katrina levels, welfare infrastructure and French street signs already in place: it'd be like nothing ever happened.
Seriously though #25 nailed it re: the remittances from Haitians working abroad:
Remittances are the primary source of foreign exchange, equaling nearly a quarter of GDP and more than twice the earnings from exports.
Seriously though #25 nailed it re: the remittances from Haitians working abroad:
Remittances are the primary source of foreign exchange, equaling nearly a quarter of GDP and more than twice the earnings from exports.
49
We feel sympathy for Haiti, but how are we supposed to afford this when we're already massively in debt? Rebuilding other countries is becoming a huge national expense.
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