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News & ArtsThursday, January 14, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Loving in Exile
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:49 PM
I’ve got a question about coming out to a religious family. I'm a lesbian who accepted her orientation a few years ago but only really embraced it in the last year. I’m now 20, living on my own, and in a different city than my bible-thumping, evangelical family. It’s been a long and difficult journey for me to weigh my religious upbringing against my sexual and intimate needs, but I feel like I’ve finally come out the other side a better person, and a better me. The only problem now, is that since I am no longer denying myself the pleasure of being with women, I have to figure out how to face my family with my reality.After moving away I have grown away from the church. I am no longer a youth group leader, worship team member, bible study attendee, or Sunday school teacher. But none of my family is aware of these facts. In their eyes, I am still the innocent young woman of Christ, living in the image of God. Every time I visit home I go to church twice on Sunday and put on a pretty face, but I don’t know if I can do that for the rest of my life. And it’s REALLY hard to keep my mouth shut when my family starts talking about "the gays ruining the sanctity of marriage" and how "the gays are going to halt the advancement of the human race." So it boils down to two questions:
1) Do I tell them at all? Or do I just keep living the illusion during visits home?
2) If I do tell them, what’s the best way to come out without being exiled or shunned?
I hope that you can help me, because this has been eating away at me for a few years and I just can’t take the indecision anymore.
Dyke And Unloved Gay Hoping To Educate Relatives
My response after the jump.
First, DAUGHTER, are you in school? Is your family paying your tuition? Would they retaliate against you for coming out—for telling them the truth—by withholding their support? If you are dependent on them, DAUGHTER, and you sincerely believe that your family would cut you off, you have my permission to wait until the day after you graduate to come out to them.
But if you're living independently, DAUGHTER, I would urge you come out to them now. Unless you're prepared to marry a dupable man and give your hateful parents the grandchildren they don't deserve, you will not be able to sustain the "illusion" of heterosexuality over the long term. As for exile: To hide your sexuality you've essentially exiled yourself from your family already (moving away, cutting your family out of your life), and over time you will have to go to greater and greater lengths to hide the details of your life from them—or further and further into exile. So not coming out to them to avoid exile is a nonstarter, DAUGHTER, as you're already living in exile. As for shunning: I'd say that their anti-gay comments are a form of up-close-and-personal shunning, DAUGHTER, only they're doing it without knowing that that's what they're doing and they're doing it without you giving them the opportunity—by coming out—to grow and change.
Write them a letter, send it to everyone at the same time (to avoid manipulative games about who else to tell and when), and include contact info for PFLAG chapters in their areas. Then tell your family that they have exactly one year to freak the fuck out on you—they can say hurtful shit, they can ask whatever insulting questions, they can grieve and cry and moan and bitch—but that's it. They have one year to get the fuck over it. Then, if they want you in their lives, they'll just have to accept you for the person you are.
And if they can't do that, DAUGHTER, exile and shun them.
2
other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility. other people's emotions are not your responsibility.
3
“Exile & shun” them? Not everyone changes overnight. Certainly, if they respond badly, Daughter should set up some boundaries to protect herself but the only way her parents are going to change is having their daughter in their lives. It isn’t easy but if she loves her family and they love her it might mean a few years of often uncomfortable conversation before they turn around.
4
And to think cities allow churches to be so close to schools when it's shown time after time after time how destructive radical religious life styles are to children and youth.
Well said Dan, shunning can go both ways. It's not easy but it can be done.
Well said Dan, shunning can go both ways. It's not easy but it can be done.
6
"'[T]he gays are going to halt the advancement of the human race.'"
Wait, what? That sounds dangerously like they have notions of... evolution! Religious conservatives are so fucking nuts.
Come out, girl. If they can't handle it, fuck 'em. I know it's not that easy, but Dan's right.
Wait, what? That sounds dangerously like they have notions of... evolution! Religious conservatives are so fucking nuts.
Come out, girl. If they can't handle it, fuck 'em. I know it's not that easy, but Dan's right.
7
@3
I think Dan means if they continue to be hurtful, insulting, and/or actively trying to "fix the gayness", THEN exile and shun. Certainly it can take time for family to come to grips with this kind of thing, but they shouldn't get an open ended free pass to be assholes. The year time limit is to both give them time to wrestle with whatever issues they'll have over their child being gay in whatever way they need to, and to also make certain their child doesn't get emotionally abused for the rest of her life.
I think Dan means if they continue to be hurtful, insulting, and/or actively trying to "fix the gayness", THEN exile and shun. Certainly it can take time for family to come to grips with this kind of thing, but they shouldn't get an open ended free pass to be assholes. The year time limit is to both give them time to wrestle with whatever issues they'll have over their child being gay in whatever way they need to, and to also make certain their child doesn't get emotionally abused for the rest of her life.
8
When I needed to tell my family that I was no longer the church-going, god-fearing golden boy they thought I was, I started by coming home for a visit where I visibly declined to go to church; I just quietly announced that I wasn't going, but that I wasn't ready to talk about it. After a couple of those visits, they were much better prepared for the news when I broke it to them.
9
I had a similar situation and although DAUGHTER may get mixed reactions when first coming out (you will most certainly hear "But God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and STEVE" like I did...). You may be surprised by how much your family/Church family/friends love and accepts you even though you're a huge dyke (or whatever ;).
Yes, it's hard to come out to a religous family, but that is how this war against hate (or ignorance) is won. One person and family at a time. When your family (hopefully) eventually realizes that you are gay and still the same loving daughter that they know- you are changing thier perception about gay relationships etc. Be free, and be OUT, because when you do, you are changing people's minds without knowing it!!
And, if they do reject you, move on. You can choose your friends, not your family. Good luck.
PS: Just in case you've been indoctrinated with their BS, God still loves you.
Yes, it's hard to come out to a religous family, but that is how this war against hate (or ignorance) is won. One person and family at a time. When your family (hopefully) eventually realizes that you are gay and still the same loving daughter that they know- you are changing thier perception about gay relationships etc. Be free, and be OUT, because when you do, you are changing people's minds without knowing it!!
And, if they do reject you, move on. You can choose your friends, not your family. Good luck.
PS: Just in case you've been indoctrinated with their BS, God still loves you.
10
I had a similar situation and although DAUGHTER may get mixed reactions when first coming out (you will most certainly hear "But God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and STEVE" like I did...). You may be surprised by how much your family/Church family/friends love and accept you even though you're a huge dyke (or whatever ;).
Yes, it's hard to come out to a religous family, but that is how this war against hate (or ignorance) is won. One person and family at a time. When your family (hopefully) eventually realizes that you are gay and still the same loving daughter that they know- you are changing thier perception about gay relationships etc. Be free, and be OUT, because when you do, you are changing people's minds without even knowing it!!
And, if they do reject you, shun them like Dan said and refuse to let them torture you. You can choose your friends, not your family. Good luck.
PS: Just in case you've been indoctrinated with their BS, God still loves you. And, in my opinion, God loves lesbians
Yes, it's hard to come out to a religous family, but that is how this war against hate (or ignorance) is won. One person and family at a time. When your family (hopefully) eventually realizes that you are gay and still the same loving daughter that they know- you are changing thier perception about gay relationships etc. Be free, and be OUT, because when you do, you are changing people's minds without even knowing it!!
And, if they do reject you, shun them like Dan said and refuse to let them torture you. You can choose your friends, not your family. Good luck.
PS: Just in case you've been indoctrinated with their BS, God still loves you. And, in my opinion, God loves lesbians
11
Bravo on the year time limit. I wish I'd told my own parents that when I came out (14 years ago!). In fact, next time something like that comes up (e.g., gays ruining marriage), I'm going to give them one more year of that shite, and then NO MORE. They've had 14 years -- that is one helluva long phase, mom (who still believes I just haven't met the right woman and that college made me gay).
12
Letters like this are exactly why I hate the homophobes. Nice kid, too bad her family puts her through hell because she likes girls.
13
Great advice. I would maybe add that the "one year" could be whatever timeline feels appropriate for DAUGHTER -- if it's 18 months or whatever, that's probably fine. And, I would emphasize in the letter that you think this is something that you are and that you've always been, not a "lifestyle" you've chosen to adopt or a reaction to anything that's happened in your life. I can see the parents' initial reaction being "she'll grow out of it"/"it's just a phase" (i.e., Denial).
It's letters like this that make me truly appreciate my parents. I'm very lucky to have such a supportive family -- even though they live in a small town and go to church (they are regular old practical Methodists, not evangelicals, though), I think they would have been fine if I had turned out to be gay. My mom probably would've have become the president of PFLAG or something...
Anyways, good luck to you, DAUGHTER.
It's letters like this that make me truly appreciate my parents. I'm very lucky to have such a supportive family -- even though they live in a small town and go to church (they are regular old practical Methodists, not evangelicals, though), I think they would have been fine if I had turned out to be gay. My mom probably would've have become the president of PFLAG or something...
Anyways, good luck to you, DAUGHTER.
14
If she tells them she expects a harsh reaction, she's probably less likely to get one. Nobody wants to think of himself as a person who would react harshly to a loved one. It could sort of poison the well against truly hateful behavior, and tamp down the merely thoughtless and insensitive stuff.
15
@3: I gave my family nine years. This last fall, I'd had enough, and I just stopped responding to them entirely. There's been a lot of bullshit since then, but I've taken the tactic of simply reading what they say, then discarding it. As I expected, none of them seem to think they've done anything wrong.
@10: You can indeed choose your family. Since this last fall, my (straight) best friend's family has welcomed me with open arms. I got introduced this Christmas as the "surrogate" son, and despite sleeping on the floor and cooking half the meals singlehandedly, it ended up being the best Christmas I can remember. It's the people that made all the difference.
Advice to DAUGHTER: Be prepared to find yourself another family, and seriously consider a psychiatrist in advance. The hateful language only gets worse and there is no guarantee it will ever get better -- but there really are good people out there, too.
@10: You can indeed choose your family. Since this last fall, my (straight) best friend's family has welcomed me with open arms. I got introduced this Christmas as the "surrogate" son, and despite sleeping on the floor and cooking half the meals singlehandedly, it ended up being the best Christmas I can remember. It's the people that made all the difference.
Advice to DAUGHTER: Be prepared to find yourself another family, and seriously consider a psychiatrist in advance. The hateful language only gets worse and there is no guarantee it will ever get better -- but there really are good people out there, too.
16
Just to underscore some of Dan's advice: If your family is anything like mine, they'll probably run off and do some of their *own* research as to why their child/sibling turned out gay. I came out to them several years ago and wish I'd been more proactive with literature/PFLAG when doing so. They've been pretty accepting overall, but they still have some pretty misguided conceptions of "the gay lifestyle" that they assume I'm right in the middle of.
17
What @2 said, only more times.
@3 - I know others have responded to this point already, but "one year" is not the same thing as "overnight." And if it takes them longer than that to come around, but they eventually do, well, that's great; but then they have some forgiveness-asking to do when they finally want to re-establish contact.
@3 - I know others have responded to this point already, but "one year" is not the same thing as "overnight." And if it takes them longer than that to come around, but they eventually do, well, that's great; but then they have some forgiveness-asking to do when they finally want to re-establish contact.
18
It's so sad that the "family values" Evangelical anti-gay BS can cause REAL families to be torn apart. I'm hoping DAUGHTER's parents' thoughtless comments about "the gays" are just that- thoughtless. People can say heartless, stupid things (that they often don't really even believe) when no one's around to call them out on it. Good luck, DAUGHTER.
19
Good luck, DAUGHTER.
Dan's advice is spot on. If you're independent of them, then you only have your own presence in their lives. You deserve to be loved and cherished for the person you are, not for the woman they dreamed you would be. You're not responsible for their disappointment or reactions.
Drawing a hard line with your family will likely be very hard. It was for me, our situations are not the same (I'm a breeder), but I still had to lay down a time limit for my parents to come to grip with my life and boundaries. It is important to think clearly, speak concisely, and hold to your own words. It is time to make those decisions so you can move forward in your own life.
Take care.
Dan's advice is spot on. If you're independent of them, then you only have your own presence in their lives. You deserve to be loved and cherished for the person you are, not for the woman they dreamed you would be. You're not responsible for their disappointment or reactions.
Drawing a hard line with your family will likely be very hard. It was for me, our situations are not the same (I'm a breeder), but I still had to lay down a time limit for my parents to come to grip with my life and boundaries. It is important to think clearly, speak concisely, and hold to your own words. It is time to make those decisions so you can move forward in your own life.
Take care.
20
This is the BEST piece of advice I've ever read on this column. I really hope DAUGHTER follows it.
21
Great advice about giving them a year to adjust. You, DAUGHTER, have had years to learn about yourself and become comfortable with who you are. Don't expect them to be fine with it right away. They need time, too. I had a friend who came out to her mother by saying, essentially, "I'm gay and I'm getting married to X. I want you to be happy for us and pay for the wedding." When her mother didn't immediately comply with joy and cash, the friend cut off the mother and it's been years since they've spoken.
22
Who was it who said that it's well past time to stop deferring to and respecting people's religious beliefs? Richard Dawkins? Sam Harris? Well whoever it was he was right. Like people who do not "believe" in evolution, people who claim their god tells them homosexuality is bad are not only just plain wrong, they're wilfully ignorant.
23
There are some exceptions, but MOST parents freak out when a gay son or daughter comes out. The only difference is the extent of the freakout.
I was lucky. My parents only freaked out briefly, and got over it within a couple weeks. Your milage may vary. Given their background, it seems more likely that their freakout will be longer and deeper than my parents. I second Dan's suggestion of PFLAG. It was great help to my parents dealing with it.
The truth is that no matter what, you aren't really risking all that much. Your relationship with your parents is a wreck right now, and based completely on lies. They don't love you. They love the fantasy of a daughter who is not you. Continuing to hide it will only make it worse.
Coming out will probably be traumatic, but it is the ONLY avenue to a longterm healthy relationship with them, if that will ever be possible. The longer you delay, the harder it will be.
I was lucky. My parents only freaked out briefly, and got over it within a couple weeks. Your milage may vary. Given their background, it seems more likely that their freakout will be longer and deeper than my parents. I second Dan's suggestion of PFLAG. It was great help to my parents dealing with it.
The truth is that no matter what, you aren't really risking all that much. Your relationship with your parents is a wreck right now, and based completely on lies. They don't love you. They love the fantasy of a daughter who is not you. Continuing to hide it will only make it worse.
Coming out will probably be traumatic, but it is the ONLY avenue to a longterm healthy relationship with them, if that will ever be possible. The longer you delay, the harder it will be.
25
My best guy friend came out to me in college. I was the first person he ever told. His plan at the time was to keep this a secret from his family for the rest of his life. He was sure they would hate him forever if they knew. They were majorly Christian and seriously homophobic.
Four years passed. He was out to the whole world, except his family. He couldn't take the pain of keeping it secret any longer.
He finally told them. It was painful but not as bad as he'd imagined. His previously not-so-nice Dad became the best one of the bunch after that. Witnessing his Dad change from redneck homophobe to accepting/loving Dad still makes me choke up. Miracles do exist.
A few years later, they have all fully embraced my friend...and his boyfriend.
Four years passed. He was out to the whole world, except his family. He couldn't take the pain of keeping it secret any longer.
He finally told them. It was painful but not as bad as he'd imagined. His previously not-so-nice Dad became the best one of the bunch after that. Witnessing his Dad change from redneck homophobe to accepting/loving Dad still makes me choke up. Miracles do exist.
A few years later, they have all fully embraced my friend...and his boyfriend.
26
Dear Dan,
I read your response to DAUGHTER, and I think you gave her some good advice. I came out to my Mother, a born again Christian, later in my life, I was 32. I knew of her beliefs, and dislike for homosexuals. Despite that, I thought we had a close relationship before I came out, and if I was to tell her then maybe with work, it would be better. I could not continue hiding. I had to “straighten” up my life for my family, and it was becoming more and more difficult and painful. Like you said in your response I was living in exile already. I wasn’t being fair to myself, my boyfriend, or my family for that matter.
They say a Mother knows and I feel that she did know since I was a little boy, but her reaction was not good to say the least. She told me I was an abomination to the lord, a pervert, and a sinner who will burn in hell forever and written out of the will...charming.
Friends told me to stick in there. I needed to educate her, get her used to it. I sent her PFLAG info, and she sent me religious tracts about the “truth about homosexuality”. I would call to say hello, and she would tell me that she does not condone my lifestyle. I told her I was going away with my boyfriend to Miami, and she told me about a Christian based conversion therapy sleep away camp where I can have the demon washed out of me. There was no acceptance or growing going on.
Well after a year or more of this, I finally said enough. I had to walk away from the relationship. I realized that it was the best thing I could do for myself, for my self-esteem. It was a terrible feeling to think of losing my Mother, but the woman I was saying goodbye to was a cold uncaring person. I wrote her a letter explaining that it was up to her to get help, and find peace with this. She wrote me back with a prayer for my salvation, and to never contact her again if I was to continue as a homosexual. That was the last time I heard from my Mother, more than 10 years ago.
Coming out stories are all not the happy endings we think they will be. At first I thought mine was tragic, but ya know what it's been great casting toxic people out of my life. It makes room for the ones. I hope the best for DAUGHTER’s coming out. I hope that DAUGHTERS mother learns to respect and accept her child for who she is. And if she doesn’t, then I hope that DAUGHTER surrounds herself with friends, to make up her new family.
Thank you for your column,
Jerry B
NYC
More...
I read your response to DAUGHTER, and I think you gave her some good advice. I came out to my Mother, a born again Christian, later in my life, I was 32. I knew of her beliefs, and dislike for homosexuals. Despite that, I thought we had a close relationship before I came out, and if I was to tell her then maybe with work, it would be better. I could not continue hiding. I had to “straighten” up my life for my family, and it was becoming more and more difficult and painful. Like you said in your response I was living in exile already. I wasn’t being fair to myself, my boyfriend, or my family for that matter.
They say a Mother knows and I feel that she did know since I was a little boy, but her reaction was not good to say the least. She told me I was an abomination to the lord, a pervert, and a sinner who will burn in hell forever and written out of the will...charming.
Friends told me to stick in there. I needed to educate her, get her used to it. I sent her PFLAG info, and she sent me religious tracts about the “truth about homosexuality”. I would call to say hello, and she would tell me that she does not condone my lifestyle. I told her I was going away with my boyfriend to Miami, and she told me about a Christian based conversion therapy sleep away camp where I can have the demon washed out of me. There was no acceptance or growing going on.
Well after a year or more of this, I finally said enough. I had to walk away from the relationship. I realized that it was the best thing I could do for myself, for my self-esteem. It was a terrible feeling to think of losing my Mother, but the woman I was saying goodbye to was a cold uncaring person. I wrote her a letter explaining that it was up to her to get help, and find peace with this. She wrote me back with a prayer for my salvation, and to never contact her again if I was to continue as a homosexual. That was the last time I heard from my Mother, more than 10 years ago.
Coming out stories are all not the happy endings we think they will be. At first I thought mine was tragic, but ya know what it's been great casting toxic people out of my life. It makes room for the ones. I hope the best for DAUGHTER’s coming out. I hope that DAUGHTERS mother learns to respect and accept her child for who she is. And if she doesn’t, then I hope that DAUGHTER surrounds herself with friends, to make up her new family.
Thank you for your column,
Jerry B
NYC
27
If you don't want to come out to them, which you should, then stop having anything to do with them. I know you love them but the chances are pretty good they will never understand and never forgive and it can drive a sane person into behaviors that are self destructive. I was able to get sober when I finally stopped letting religion make me miserable. Since then I have learned not only to love myself but to see how ignorant and myopic religion is. Then go and create your own family. Good luck.
28
Add: Don't let them talk you into "therapy," but it sounds like you are level-headed enough not to let them.
Also, if you feel the need/desire, there are accepting and wonderful Christian communities who will welcome you with open arms, if you're willing to look for them.
Also, if you feel the need/desire, there are accepting and wonderful Christian communities who will welcome you with open arms, if you're willing to look for them.
29
Best of luck, DAUGHTER. I think it might actually be easier to approach those who are overtly homophobic than those like my own mother, who pretends to be liberal and open-minded, and yet persists in denial. "It's just a phase, your sister went through that at college, too." The end result is that this battle for me is not one worth fighting, if only because her attitude is that being gay is fine, just not in her family.
31
I gave my mother over a year. In that time she would call off and on, but just to check if I was still a lesbian. Then, she said she came around. I tried to have a relationship with her, but I had enough when she refused to talk to my wife in English. I figured if my mom, couldn't respect the woman that nursed me through cancer, the woman I have chosen to spend my life with, and the family we create together, then she's not worth my love, devotion, or respect.
I agree with Dan, if your independent tell them in whatever way you see fit. A letter to all of them at once is the easiest, but a phone call requires less waiting around for their reaction.
If your dependent, wait until your independent and then tell them. The only way Gays will win civil rights is by coming out and showing people we are normal people that they love. It's painful, but the more of us that come out, the less painful it will be for future generations.
I agree with Dan, if your independent tell them in whatever way you see fit. A letter to all of them at once is the easiest, but a phone call requires less waiting around for their reaction.
If your dependent, wait until your independent and then tell them. The only way Gays will win civil rights is by coming out and showing people we are normal people that they love. It's painful, but the more of us that come out, the less painful it will be for future generations.
32
There's a great documentary, which won at SIFF a few years ago, called "For the Bible Tells Me So" about gay children of highly religious families. It gives excellent talking points regarding the fallacy of the extremely homophobic position of many fundamentalist groups (lots of cool progressive Christian and Jewish theologians talking on camera) and introduces several families who dealt with their gay and lesbian children in different ways. One of the stories is of former Sen. Dick Gephardt's lesbian daughter. (The Gephardts are one of the awesome ones, BTW.)
When I saw it at a gorgeous old theater in Central PA, there were Christian protest assholes outside. On the bright side, a local gay group held giant rainbow golf umbrellas up in front of them so we didn't have to look at their hateful signs, and we got $1 off admission for bringing our church bulletin with us.
If you haven't seen it, you should. It's on Netflix. Here's the filmmaker's website:
http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org
When I saw it at a gorgeous old theater in Central PA, there were Christian protest assholes outside. On the bright side, a local gay group held giant rainbow golf umbrellas up in front of them so we didn't have to look at their hateful signs, and we got $1 off admission for bringing our church bulletin with us.
If you haven't seen it, you should. It's on Netflix. Here's the filmmaker's website:
http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org
33
Eh, I don't know. It's not like I'm gay or anything, and besides, I'm too old to worry about all that shit anyway.
What would I do if my kid said he was gay? I'd probably say something like "hey, it's not like you grew a third arm or something, don't make such a big deal out of it." But that's just me.
What would I do if my kid said he was gay? I'd probably say something like "hey, it's not like you grew a third arm or something, don't make such a big deal out of it." But that's just me.
35
Outstanding advice, Dan, especially about giving them time to freak out. A lot of teh gays don't realize that this news can be quite a surprise to family members. You've had plenty of time to accept it, so give them some time as well. Tell them they don't have to decide right at that instant how they feel about you being gay. When I came out to my bro, he told me he would NEVER be able to meet a guy I was seeing. I wasn't dating anyone at the time, so not an immediate problem. A few years later he met the guy I've now been with for 15 years and everything is cool.
37
@sirkowski - Thank you, I'm still chuckling at that after reading down to the bottom of the comments.
@26- Sounds like you did the right thing. You are who you are, and it's a real pity your mom won't love you for it - but as you know: that is her issue, not yours.
@26- Sounds like you did the right thing. You are who you are, and it's a real pity your mom won't love you for it - but as you know: that is her issue, not yours.
38
Here is a 100% contact free virtual hug, Jerryb @ 26. I'm sorry your mom doesn't realize that she lost one of the best things to happen to her.
39
The good news for DAUGHTER is that most parents do love their children enough to accept some basic truths about teh gay:
1> Even if scripture is right and gayity is sinful, so what? We're all sinners.
2> Even if it's a sin, God loves us all. He/She/It loves and forgives murderers, fascists, animal fornicators, and Ann Coulter. He loves and forgives the gays.
3> 125-4. Last year, the APA voted 125-4 that Gay Recovery Therapy is not safe and effective.
So. Even if gay is sinful, a gay person has three choices:
a> celibacy, which is SUPPOSED to be a struggle, and doesn't work for most people.
b> dishonesty, which is a form of Bearing False Witness, which is expressly forbidden by the Big Ten.
c> Being the best faggot or dyke he or she can be.
It's often too much to ask a thoroughly indoctrinated Christianist to come all the way round to a full-on endorser of the Radical Gay Agenda. That's sad. Bigotry's a hard thing to overcome. But. Most parents love their children. Fortunately, most Christian parents love their gay children enough to come round enough to love them well.
1> Even if scripture is right and gayity is sinful, so what? We're all sinners.
2> Even if it's a sin, God loves us all. He/She/It loves and forgives murderers, fascists, animal fornicators, and Ann Coulter. He loves and forgives the gays.
3> 125-4. Last year, the APA voted 125-4 that Gay Recovery Therapy is not safe and effective.
So. Even if gay is sinful, a gay person has three choices:
a> celibacy, which is SUPPOSED to be a struggle, and doesn't work for most people.
b> dishonesty, which is a form of Bearing False Witness, which is expressly forbidden by the Big Ten.
c> Being the best faggot or dyke he or she can be.
It's often too much to ask a thoroughly indoctrinated Christianist to come all the way round to a full-on endorser of the Radical Gay Agenda. That's sad. Bigotry's a hard thing to overcome. But. Most parents love their children. Fortunately, most Christian parents love their gay children enough to come round enough to love them well.
40
Having been raised in an evangelical and pentecostal denomination where I was super involved with my church during my teenage years, I totally feel what DAUGHTER is currently experiencing. Before you write the letter to your family, please educate yourself. @32 listed a film which is great. If you are already able to reconcile your sexuality with faith, consider reading "Stranger at the Gate" by Mel White or "The Lord is My Shepherd and He Knows I'm Gay" by Troy Perry, founder of Metropolitan Community Church (MCC). Both provide context to affirm what you are experiencing. Maybe even check our a gay-affirming church like MCC (although they were too different for me at first and it took a lot of getting used to). I'm an atheist now, but that's my journey.
This process will be akin to childbirth: just before enlightenment, it will probably be dark and painful. But in the end, I promise you it will be better. Have faith in yourself!
This process will be akin to childbirth: just before enlightenment, it will probably be dark and painful. But in the end, I promise you it will be better. Have faith in yourself!
41
As Harvey Milk noted, we fringe queers get normalized by coming out, by others being exposed to us and realizing we're not so different after all, or more importantly, we're not dangerous. As Chapstick in Heels notes the brunt of integration happens one family at a time.
The term gay (used with a preposition, as in gay for, or gay about...) is changing on the Internet to mean to love something enough to draw social stigma. As in They're gay for Jesus, I'm gay for Bill Nye, She's gay for vampires.
The term gay (used with a preposition, as in gay for, or gay about...) is changing on the Internet to mean to love something enough to draw social stigma. As in They're gay for Jesus, I'm gay for Bill Nye, She's gay for vampires.
42
coming out to a religious family is extremely difficult, and i applaud you for even attempting it. i grew up in a southern, evangelical home...church 3 times a week, prayer meetings, attended the church's "school" until 9th grade, etc. god was so firmly entrenched into my family's daily life that there was room for little else to influence me in those early years. i went away to college, finally accepted the fact that i was gay, gave up on god (since all of his folks made it abundantly clear that he didn't want me) and, after my first time trying ecstasy, finally got the nerve to kiss and lay a guy.
it took two years of writing and re-writing my coming out letter before i could drop it in the mail. i just woke up one morning, decided that "today's the day" and did it. i almost shit my pants after the letter disappeared into the public mailbox.
my parents presented me with a stack of focus on the family info on why i was gay. my mom was nearly suicidal after i told her to keep it. my dad cried in front of me for the first time, then told me that if i chose the gay road my life would end in one of two ways: suicide or aids.
fast forward a decade. my parents sent my partner a christmas card. they ask how he is doing. we have entertained them in our home, celebrated my nephew's first birthday and now are attempting to spend a holiday at their home.
it just takes time. lots of time, in my case. but knowing that i can be myself around them with the man i love was worth the wait.
i agree that they might need a little forceful negotiating to come to terms. the ball didn't really start rolling until i had a major meltdown (after years of trying to take the emotional high road with them) and basically threatened to never see them again unless they shaped the fuck up. their love finally won out over their fear and religion.
don't give up.
More...
it took two years of writing and re-writing my coming out letter before i could drop it in the mail. i just woke up one morning, decided that "today's the day" and did it. i almost shit my pants after the letter disappeared into the public mailbox.
my parents presented me with a stack of focus on the family info on why i was gay. my mom was nearly suicidal after i told her to keep it. my dad cried in front of me for the first time, then told me that if i chose the gay road my life would end in one of two ways: suicide or aids.
fast forward a decade. my parents sent my partner a christmas card. they ask how he is doing. we have entertained them in our home, celebrated my nephew's first birthday and now are attempting to spend a holiday at their home.
it just takes time. lots of time, in my case. but knowing that i can be myself around them with the man i love was worth the wait.
i agree that they might need a little forceful negotiating to come to terms. the ball didn't really start rolling until i had a major meltdown (after years of trying to take the emotional high road with them) and basically threatened to never see them again unless they shaped the fuck up. their love finally won out over their fear and religion.
don't give up.
43
DAUGHTER, you've already gotten a ton of advice, so I'll just say that there is no one perfect way to come out. Do what you think is best, and that will be the right decision.
Ok, I can't resist giving advice too: have a few good friends on stand-by to give you support during your parents' period of readjustment.
Regarding the 1 year thing - remember that you've had several years to think over and come to terms with your own sexual orientation. Some family members may accept your news immediately, but consider giving those who don't as much time as you took to accept yourself. Fair is fair, right? (That piece of advice comes from the spirit of my late Mom, who loved me very much but did need time to readjust *her* expectations for me.)
xxoo,
Lurleen
Ok, I can't resist giving advice too: have a few good friends on stand-by to give you support during your parents' period of readjustment.
Regarding the 1 year thing - remember that you've had several years to think over and come to terms with your own sexual orientation. Some family members may accept your news immediately, but consider giving those who don't as much time as you took to accept yourself. Fair is fair, right? (That piece of advice comes from the spirit of my late Mom, who loved me very much but did need time to readjust *her* expectations for me.)
xxoo,
Lurleen
44
My own version -- My parents weren't super-religious folks to begin with, just average church-going folks, but I didn't tell them anything explicit. I just lived my life as a good ol' liberal/libertarian.
As a wannabe teacher I had a "No on 6" bumper sticker against the Briggs initiative on my car.
When our church took a stand against nude sunbathing on an isolated beach, I countered the minister on purely logical grounds, and issued a challenge that if the church members felt so strongly that that stretch of isolated beach belonged to "families" then our church should have its annual picnic there (knowing full well that virtually no one in the congregation could make that hike).
And on and on.
My parents finally figured out that I was gay (surprise!), my brother knew way before that, and all is well. In fact, my mother has moved from "liberal Republican" to hard-core Democrat. (My father, unfortunately, has died, but he was moving that way.)
Not saying, DAUGHTER, that it will turn out that way for you, but try vocally supporting some gay/feminist issues from a non-personal perspective, and see how things go. Maybe Mom and Dad will get the hints and realize they gave birth to a dyke.
You may wind up changing them.
As a wannabe teacher I had a "No on 6" bumper sticker against the Briggs initiative on my car.
When our church took a stand against nude sunbathing on an isolated beach, I countered the minister on purely logical grounds, and issued a challenge that if the church members felt so strongly that that stretch of isolated beach belonged to "families" then our church should have its annual picnic there (knowing full well that virtually no one in the congregation could make that hike).
And on and on.
My parents finally figured out that I was gay (surprise!), my brother knew way before that, and all is well. In fact, my mother has moved from "liberal Republican" to hard-core Democrat. (My father, unfortunately, has died, but he was moving that way.)
Not saying, DAUGHTER, that it will turn out that way for you, but try vocally supporting some gay/feminist issues from a non-personal perspective, and see how things go. Maybe Mom and Dad will get the hints and realize they gave birth to a dyke.
You may wind up changing them.
45
...and saying hurtful shit they will. I've heard some extremely creative stuff come out of the minds of Christians. It's all meant to trick and guilt you into endorsing their opinions and beliefs.
As far as I'm concerned, just because someone believes something is no call to shuffle around and pat people on the backs of their hands. People believe all sorts of evil crap.
And if confirming "God loves you" is how you want to go about this, my advice is to avoid the scriptures. Of course, religious beliefs are all about what they believe the scriptures say, not about what they actually say. So, if you want to rationalize some kind of spiritual beliefs about Jesus, don't read the bible, because it'll just disappoint you. Better to reason, not rationalize.
Think about morality as an analysis of causality. See your values, see how those values stand up to reason. Compare them to the anti-values you were raised with. Now that's morality, not some set of don'ts found in one scripture among thousands. If you live as close to your values as you can, that's how you keep from being depressed--npt trying to follow irrational systems that all boil down to a desire for immortality. Is achieving immortality a reasonable value in a world with so much suffering, yet so much joy and beauty? Maybe it would be, if that were possible through muttering nonsense words/incantations while waving your hands in the air or, as some evangelical churches encourage, rolling around on the floor barking like a dog.
Time to let go of the fear of demons and disapproval, and start being your own person.
As far as I'm concerned, just because someone believes something is no call to shuffle around and pat people on the backs of their hands. People believe all sorts of evil crap.
And if confirming "God loves you" is how you want to go about this, my advice is to avoid the scriptures. Of course, religious beliefs are all about what they believe the scriptures say, not about what they actually say. So, if you want to rationalize some kind of spiritual beliefs about Jesus, don't read the bible, because it'll just disappoint you. Better to reason, not rationalize.
Think about morality as an analysis of causality. See your values, see how those values stand up to reason. Compare them to the anti-values you were raised with. Now that's morality, not some set of don'ts found in one scripture among thousands. If you live as close to your values as you can, that's how you keep from being depressed--npt trying to follow irrational systems that all boil down to a desire for immortality. Is achieving immortality a reasonable value in a world with so much suffering, yet so much joy and beauty? Maybe it would be, if that were possible through muttering nonsense words/incantations while waving your hands in the air or, as some evangelical churches encourage, rolling around on the floor barking like a dog.
Time to let go of the fear of demons and disapproval, and start being your own person.
46
"Give them a year" + calling them hateful in the same post is a little misleading. If we start with the premises that her parents are hateful why should she even engage them Dan? Any good real Christian parent will back their child whether he/she is a homosexual, even if they still continue to disagree.
I hate the hateful speech. Her parents probably aren't hateful. But your advice otherwise is good. It should take them less than a year, but a year is graceful. Parents are often stuck in their ways--we all know that.
I hate the hateful speech. Her parents probably aren't hateful. But your advice otherwise is good. It should take them less than a year, but a year is graceful. Parents are often stuck in their ways--we all know that.
47
If a family member tells you again that "gays are impeding the advancement of the human race," you can respond that
a) Christianity would not exist were it not for the very gay Alexander the Great expanding the realm of Greek culture.
b) The Nazis might still rule Europe were it not for Alan Turing (gay) breaking their codes.
a) Christianity would not exist were it not for the very gay Alexander the Great expanding the realm of Greek culture.
b) The Nazis might still rule Europe were it not for Alan Turing (gay) breaking their codes.
48
I wholehearted agree with the advice Dan has given you. Growing up in a conservative Jewish family, gay was just not spoken about. Oh sure there were lots of whispers at temple about so and so. I knew i was a big homo as long as i can remember, I kept this all inside. It was terrifying and depressing. I even had sex with a drunk sorority girl in college, but hey who hasn't. Finally during our regular family dinner on Sunday my idiot sister-in-law (Jew for Jesus natch), said something really durogatory about the GLBT community and I freaked out, I came out right then and there. My pappa Pfferberg looked right at me and said, "Mazel Tov, pass the kugle". It was hard at first but they came around, sister-in-law even allows my niece unsupervised visits! Also I married a nice Jewish doctor. Follow your heart DAUGHTER. Good luck.
49
I echo Dan's recommendation to have your LIFE IN ORDER completely before you notify your family. The worst thing you can do is beg, plead, or negotiate for them to change their minds. They will see this as uncertainty and will keep sending you ex-gay books, bible tracts, etc. etc. ad nauseam.
Since they are convinced that being gay will ruin your life, don't argue with them about it. Let success and independence be your argument. Any failure will be thrown in your face as being a result of your sinful lifestyle, so make good choices and surround yourselves with others who do the same. Don't make the mistake of confusing the unusual with the profound: namely, connecting with a new crowd of dysfunctional gays or lesbians to replace your dysfunctional family. You may be desperate for the first person or group who tells you that "you've come home," but be CHOOSY and skeptical. Work to earn your new family's respect, and make sure they earn yours. And don't start drinking and smoking too much or you'll turn into a living punchline.
Of course your old family deserve a few chances, but the 5th time your mom or whoever sends you a hateful letter, don't even open it. Just write "NOT INTERESTED" in big red letters on the front of the envelope, and mail it back to her, unopened.
Since they are convinced that being gay will ruin your life, don't argue with them about it. Let success and independence be your argument. Any failure will be thrown in your face as being a result of your sinful lifestyle, so make good choices and surround yourselves with others who do the same. Don't make the mistake of confusing the unusual with the profound: namely, connecting with a new crowd of dysfunctional gays or lesbians to replace your dysfunctional family. You may be desperate for the first person or group who tells you that "you've come home," but be CHOOSY and skeptical. Work to earn your new family's respect, and make sure they earn yours. And don't start drinking and smoking too much or you'll turn into a living punchline.
Of course your old family deserve a few chances, but the 5th time your mom or whoever sends you a hateful letter, don't even open it. Just write "NOT INTERESTED" in big red letters on the front of the envelope, and mail it back to her, unopened.
51
Hey DAUGHTER, if you're still reading, good luck, and make sure you have some friends who can support you in this process. I had a really similar situation, but was accidentally outed by my housemate a couple weeks after I graduated from a hideous Christian college. My advice is to be patient with your family's intense emotions and the myths they have been told about homosexuality by their community. My parents refused to contact PFLAG and though my mom went to a 'support group' at her church for relatives of gay people, getting support entails them 'coming out' about you to their friends (almost as scary for them as it is for you).
My parents made a lot of strides in the first year or two, after initially threatening to cut off contact, within a year my dad even compared my girlfriend dumping me to my mom breaking off their engagement. But 9 years later, he's still not sure if he can come to my commitment ceremony or take joy in my partner and I planning to have a baby. I have close relationships with my parents, but there's occasionally still disapproval and pain. I hope your family is more adaptive and after an adjustment period they will come around.
Oh, and someone recommended "For the Bible Tells Me So" -it might be ok for you to watch, but it's useless for conservative family members. A few minutes into the film I knew it would alienate my Biblical-literalist family, it's preaching to a gay-positive choir.
My parents made a lot of strides in the first year or two, after initially threatening to cut off contact, within a year my dad even compared my girlfriend dumping me to my mom breaking off their engagement. But 9 years later, he's still not sure if he can come to my commitment ceremony or take joy in my partner and I planning to have a baby. I have close relationships with my parents, but there's occasionally still disapproval and pain. I hope your family is more adaptive and after an adjustment period they will come around.
Oh, and someone recommended "For the Bible Tells Me So" -it might be ok for you to watch, but it's useless for conservative family members. A few minutes into the film I knew it would alienate my Biblical-literalist family, it's preaching to a gay-positive choir.
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