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News & ArtsFriday, January 8, 2010
International Indian Newspaper Likens the Aussie Police to the Ku Klux Klan
Posted by Charles Mudede on Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:59 AM
Tensions between Indian and Australia have been increased by this cartoon:
Australia's government and police angrily criticised on Friday a cartoon in an Indian newspaper that depicted police as racist Ku Klux Klan members following the fatal stabbing of an Indian student.A cartoon in the Delhi Mail Today newspaper portrayed a person in a white Ku Klux Klan hood and wearing a Victoria state police badge against a black background and the words: "We are yet to ascertain the nature of the crime."
As all of that goes on in Australia, this goes on in America:
MIAMI, OK — Oklahoman Johnny Lee Clary knelt before the Church of God in Christ’s elders, who ordained him as a minister in what is one of the nation’s largest black churches. The fact that Clary is white made the moment historic.A fact that's corroborated by travel? America is the most racially sophisticated country in the world, and its biggest city, New York City, is the only "world city" in the world.The fact that he is also a former Ku Klux Klan leader made it — at least in Clary’s view — something divine.
"We’re making history,” said Clary, 50, of Miami. "We’re building a bridge of racial reconciliation, and what better way to do that than with a former KKK leader ministering in a black church that boasts over 6 million members? I hope I can have a great impact.”
2
Charles, what is with the sudden patriotism? It sounds like you need a couple of years in another country to get some perspective on the beacon of materialism, corruption and greed that America is to the rest of the world.
5
NY the only world city? Have you ever travelled, Charles? I love NY, but it's no more a "world city" than Toronto or London.
6
Indians, and any other non-caucasian group who goes to australia should expect nothing more than the same treatment that the original inhabitatns have received in the long run. So it's no wonder that they would do the same with all of those of the 'wrong' ethnicity (in their eyes) who come to their shores.
Austalian media promotes those ideas, so why should one believe that their law enforcement would do otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/?v=ZaIhf41ctkM
Austalian media promotes those ideas, so why should one believe that their law enforcement would do otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/?v=ZaIhf41ctkM
7
What you and the Indian media seem to have a hard time grasping is that the attackers are not always Anglos :
"The racially unrelated criminal element has now been established by the evidence of video footage that is in the custody of the police. The video footage of the infamous pack attack on Sorabh Sharma on the Werribee train shows up thugs as not only Anglos but those belonging to other ethnicities. Macquarie University student Mukul Khanna stated,"A lot of my Pakistani friends have left the place after being brutally attacked and robbed... Interestingly the attackers are MOSTLY NOT LOCAL and are themselves people of foreign origin." Another student, Tanveer, who had been bashed told the Beyond India Monthly, "When I turned on Anderson Road I saw four black men...one of them came running behind us and hit me with a stick. Then they started hitting my wife... I want action against those AFRICAN guys"
(emphasis mine)
http://www.island.lk/2009/11/13/opinion6…
"The racially unrelated criminal element has now been established by the evidence of video footage that is in the custody of the police. The video footage of the infamous pack attack on Sorabh Sharma on the Werribee train shows up thugs as not only Anglos but those belonging to other ethnicities. Macquarie University student Mukul Khanna stated,"A lot of my Pakistani friends have left the place after being brutally attacked and robbed... Interestingly the attackers are MOSTLY NOT LOCAL and are themselves people of foreign origin." Another student, Tanveer, who had been bashed told the Beyond India Monthly, "When I turned on Anderson Road I saw four black men...one of them came running behind us and hit me with a stick. Then they started hitting my wife... I want action against those AFRICAN guys"
(emphasis mine)
http://www.island.lk/2009/11/13/opinion6…
8
@5, are you kidding me. Seattle is as diverse as London. really, it's not a world city. Nor is Paris. Look at the demographics of NYC and find one city in Europe and Asia that comes close to those kinds of numbers, that kind of diversity.
11
Leave Charles alone...
For every negative perverted disgusting booger that Dan manages to dig out of the internet and wipe on Slog there are a million stories like the Oklahoma story Charles posted.
Slog spends so much time with it's head in the crapper it forgets what sunshine and fresh air feel like...
For every negative perverted disgusting booger that Dan manages to dig out of the internet and wipe on Slog there are a million stories like the Oklahoma story Charles posted.
Slog spends so much time with it's head in the crapper it forgets what sunshine and fresh air feel like...
12
Jesus. Americans can never throw stones based on their history on racial issues. That cartoon wouldn't EXIST if not for the history of racism that this country invented (the KKK is not an Australian concept).
And I live in New York, and it is one of the most segregated cities in the world. Just because people live in close proximity doesn't mean they assimilate, or even communicate.
And I live in New York, and it is one of the most segregated cities in the world. Just because people live in close proximity doesn't mean they assimilate, or even communicate.
14
I agree with Donutspal. (I live in New York as well.) The diversity in this city is a result of geography not any aspiration to be a "World City". What is a "World City" anyway Charles?
15
Wait, so white Australians have a problem with being compared to the KKK yet they seemingly have no problem with white people in blackface (as evidenced by that Harry Connick Jr. video that was linked around a few months ago)? Classic. "We reserve the right to be racist assholes, just don't call us on it."
16
@LC: "should expect nothing more than the same treatment that the original inhabitatns [sic] have received in the long run" ...in so far as anyone coming to America should expect the same?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultur…
"According to the 2006 census more than one fifth of the population were born overseas.
Furthermore, almost 50% of the population were either:
1. born overseas; or
2. had one or both parents born overseas."
If 50% of us were born overseas or had parents born overseas (I fall into that 50% myself) how come so many of us are apparently racists dickheads? You wouldn't think that someone with parents from a foreign country would be very xenophobic, would you?
This is getting kind of frustrating for me. Charles, I don't know why someone as seemingly wise as you is taking a handful of incidents as a reflection of a nation.
I lived in Australia the majority of my life. I never counted, but I'd guess there were in the realm of ~50 times I had been the only Caucasian on a tram, on my way into university.
I had three jobs in my ENTIRE time there, the first was under a Greek lady for 4 months, the next I worked for an Indian family business for 2 years, and lastly for an Asian couple for 2 1/2 years.
If you don't have a first-hand grasp of Australian culture, how can you feel so entitled to try and rip it apart. I'm not telling you that the racist incidents in the media didn't occur - I'm not telling you that there isn't a problem. But the problem is a) localized and b) far more nuanced than you are describing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultur…
"According to the 2006 census more than one fifth of the population were born overseas.
Furthermore, almost 50% of the population were either:
1. born overseas; or
2. had one or both parents born overseas."
If 50% of us were born overseas or had parents born overseas (I fall into that 50% myself) how come so many of us are apparently racists dickheads? You wouldn't think that someone with parents from a foreign country would be very xenophobic, would you?
This is getting kind of frustrating for me. Charles, I don't know why someone as seemingly wise as you is taking a handful of incidents as a reflection of a nation.
I lived in Australia the majority of my life. I never counted, but I'd guess there were in the realm of ~50 times I had been the only Caucasian on a tram, on my way into university.
I had three jobs in my ENTIRE time there, the first was under a Greek lady for 4 months, the next I worked for an Indian family business for 2 years, and lastly for an Asian couple for 2 1/2 years.
If you don't have a first-hand grasp of Australian culture, how can you feel so entitled to try and rip it apart. I'm not telling you that the racist incidents in the media didn't occur - I'm not telling you that there isn't a problem. But the problem is a) localized and b) far more nuanced than you are describing.
17
@15 "T"... I think this was discussed well enough in the thread that was actually ON the topic, but allow me to get into it anyway. Racism is about INTENT. Blackface, as a phenomenon, did not exist in Australia. It was an unknowingly insensitive skit, and if you stop to remember for one moment - the men in the skit were from West and South Asian countries themselves - so unlikely to be trying to belittle blacks.
20
No-one should throw stones, we are all backwards, racist, and bigoted in our own ways. We all have pre-conceived ideas and opinions that we think should be absolutes. We all suffer from a very creative and intricate psychological defense mechanism that allows us maintain a benign view of our corporate and individual selves, it also allows us to retain beliefs dear to us, in spite of contravening facts.
A lump sum statement that Australia is country full of racist by Americans, is the pot calling the kettle black. A return volley of Americans should be quiet due to their history of racisim and present issues by Australians, is the kettle calling the pot black. Pot meet kettle you have issues in common, you both have issues with racism and individuals in your midst have cause great violations of human rights. Kettle meet pot, you both have amazing individuals in your mist that defy such racist tendencies and will bring healing and hope.
And, if you don't believe me that we humans can convince ourselves that we are benign and not bigoted and racist. Then you all haven't been reading the threads very well, the poster at six is one of the best.
I'll shut up now. I'm aware of my own failings.
A lump sum statement that Australia is country full of racist by Americans, is the pot calling the kettle black. A return volley of Americans should be quiet due to their history of racisim and present issues by Australians, is the kettle calling the pot black. Pot meet kettle you have issues in common, you both have issues with racism and individuals in your midst have cause great violations of human rights. Kettle meet pot, you both have amazing individuals in your mist that defy such racist tendencies and will bring healing and hope.
And, if you don't believe me that we humans can convince ourselves that we are benign and not bigoted and racist. Then you all haven't been reading the threads very well, the poster at six is one of the best.
I'll shut up now. I'm aware of my own failings.
22
So, it seems the KKK member isn't going through much of a change. From "black people and jews are worthless and evil" to "everyone is worthless and evil."
Looks like he took a step down.
Looks like he took a step down.
23
21,
No. Hypocrisy gets under my skin. I can't stand it in myself, I can't stand it in others.
Thanks for giving a darn, you're sweet.
No. Hypocrisy gets under my skin. I can't stand it in myself, I can't stand it in others.
Thanks for giving a darn, you're sweet.
24
@20 No missy I'm not the one who goes around pretending to be something I'm not, take a look in the mirror. To deny the racial problem of ill treatment and injustice that australia currently displays against true australians (aborigines) and migrant communities of color just because we have faced (and still do) similar issues here in the U.S is something I'm not willing to do.
http://www.creativespirits.info/aborigin…
http://www.creativespirits.info/aborigin…
25
@10, according to census figures, Toronto regularly beats New York City as the most diverse city in the world.
Again, Charles is feeding you patriotic BS. I'm disappointed, but reassured to see that many people get it.
Get over this Australia-bashing and U.S.-glorifying streak you're on, Charles. It's ugly.
Again, Charles is feeding you patriotic BS. I'm disappointed, but reassured to see that many people get it.
Get over this Australia-bashing and U.S.-glorifying streak you're on, Charles. It's ugly.
27
@19 (LC) - I certainly stand corrected, and apologize. Thank you for enlightening me to the fact that blackface did exist in Australia, for a time (originating from several tours of minstrel groups from the US).
I stand by my point that racism is about intent, however. A good deal of Australians (particularly under-40's) were surprised by Harry's reaction. In a country where, (as cited above) 50% of the population are foreign-born or have a foreign-born parent, do you really believe malicious ridicule of another race was the intention?
Back to the original topic of attacks in Australia against Indians. Some points of reference here...
From the Times of India:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opini…
"All evidence suggests that the assaults on Indians are the handiwork of social misfits and hoodlums who aren't all white Australians. There is a distinction between prejudice and criminality."
Nama Nageswara Rao, leader of the Telugu Desam Party (an Indian political party), visited Australia, and held a press conference on his return. He stated "during our interaction with the victims as well as other Indian students, we were told that racism was not the motive behind attacks as suspected". He also noted that many of the perpetrators were immigrants from ethnic minorities, such as Lebanese.
As Australian police officers have noted, a further key issue in these attacks is that Indians looking for cheap accommodation often move to suburbs with unfavorable demographics.
Racism exists in Australia, as it exists in America and in India as well. This issue in particular is misunderstood and misrepresented in the media, and is snowballing. We should focus on the information gained from the victims, and from law enforcement, not the scandal and the accusations of third parties.
Racism is a terrible trait and our countries should be working to make it a thing of the past. Australia and America are allies: we have followed you into military endeavors including the Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War and both Iraq Wars. Labeling Australia as a racist country is not a very useful thing to do to an ally, nor is it a useful way to address the shared problem of racism.
More...
I stand by my point that racism is about intent, however. A good deal of Australians (particularly under-40's) were surprised by Harry's reaction. In a country where, (as cited above) 50% of the population are foreign-born or have a foreign-born parent, do you really believe malicious ridicule of another race was the intention?
Back to the original topic of attacks in Australia against Indians. Some points of reference here...
From the Times of India:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opini…
"All evidence suggests that the assaults on Indians are the handiwork of social misfits and hoodlums who aren't all white Australians. There is a distinction between prejudice and criminality."
Nama Nageswara Rao, leader of the Telugu Desam Party (an Indian political party), visited Australia, and held a press conference on his return. He stated "during our interaction with the victims as well as other Indian students, we were told that racism was not the motive behind attacks as suspected". He also noted that many of the perpetrators were immigrants from ethnic minorities, such as Lebanese.
As Australian police officers have noted, a further key issue in these attacks is that Indians looking for cheap accommodation often move to suburbs with unfavorable demographics.
Racism exists in Australia, as it exists in America and in India as well. This issue in particular is misunderstood and misrepresented in the media, and is snowballing. We should focus on the information gained from the victims, and from law enforcement, not the scandal and the accusations of third parties.
Racism is a terrible trait and our countries should be working to make it a thing of the past. Australia and America are allies: we have followed you into military endeavors including the Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War and both Iraq Wars. Labeling Australia as a racist country is not a very useful thing to do to an ally, nor is it a useful way to address the shared problem of racism.
28
@24,
Still no reading comprehension skills? Bummer. Try again. Provided your delusions permit you to recognize that much of what you say is unkind, unjust, prejudiced, bigoted, hateful, judgemental, haughty, prideful, and racist.
Statements claiming to be, "African American", "First Nation Blood", do not give you a get-out-of-racism-free card. Nor does claiming to be "Christian" give you a get-out-of-hypocrisy-free card.
And, claiming to be "Christian", "African American", "First Nation Blood", does not give weight to your opinion and make you an absolute authority on every subject you spout off on. Nor do they make your opinion an "absolute truth".
Thanks for proving me correct @ 20. You just tracked shit into your own house, missy.
Still no reading comprehension skills? Bummer. Try again. Provided your delusions permit you to recognize that much of what you say is unkind, unjust, prejudiced, bigoted, hateful, judgemental, haughty, prideful, and racist.
Statements claiming to be, "African American", "First Nation Blood", do not give you a get-out-of-racism-free card. Nor does claiming to be "Christian" give you a get-out-of-hypocrisy-free card.
And, claiming to be "Christian", "African American", "First Nation Blood", does not give weight to your opinion and make you an absolute authority on every subject you spout off on. Nor do they make your opinion an "absolute truth".
Thanks for proving me correct @ 20. You just tracked shit into your own house, missy.
29
"No missy I'm not the one who goes around pretending to be something I'm not, take a look in the mirror." That's from the bible, right?
And, LC - Australia is a country. You should use a capital A :)
And, LC - Australia is a country. You should use a capital A :)
30
@27
http://dwa.atsiphj.com.au/?p=102
Not only did it existed but it still does it just taken other forms, but as the original inhabitants become more and more visible in urban centers across australia, accompanied by other blacks (immigrants) then you're seeing a resurgence of old mentalities, those beliefs were always there, they just receded in some places after they thought that Aborigines had been wiped out (except for some pockets here and there on the bush and on the northern territories) or thoroughly assimilated by way of the children they stole (stolen generations).
http://network.news.com.au/image/0,11011…
http://dwa.atsiphj.com.au/?p=102
Not only did it existed but it still does it just taken other forms, but as the original inhabitants become more and more visible in urban centers across australia, accompanied by other blacks (immigrants) then you're seeing a resurgence of old mentalities, those beliefs were always there, they just receded in some places after they thought that Aborigines had been wiped out (except for some pockets here and there on the bush and on the northern territories) or thoroughly assimilated by way of the children they stole (stolen generations).
http://network.news.com.au/image/0,11011…
31
http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114…
Regarding the other part of your comment, one would hope that those figures are true, but one must also take into account the fact that most of those 50% with foreign ancestry are of caucasian or related ethnicities that come into Australia with preconceived views about black people. If you couple that with what has been festering since the invasion days, then you get the incident Harry Connick Jr witness. I also recognize that you are completely correct, racism exists in India as well, it's just a dirty little secret that they keep to themselves, but they have their own black indigenous populations both in the mainland and on islands under their control which they currently subject to the same dehumanizing treatment that Aborigines have received from white Australians. It would be great if more attention was brought up to their plight as a result of this also.
Regarding the other part of your comment, one would hope that those figures are true, but one must also take into account the fact that most of those 50% with foreign ancestry are of caucasian or related ethnicities that come into Australia with preconceived views about black people. If you couple that with what has been festering since the invasion days, then you get the incident Harry Connick Jr witness. I also recognize that you are completely correct, racism exists in India as well, it's just a dirty little secret that they keep to themselves, but they have their own black indigenous populations both in the mainland and on islands under their control which they currently subject to the same dehumanizing treatment that Aborigines have received from white Australians. It would be great if more attention was brought up to their plight as a result of this also.
32
Yup. Good thing we've got that racism problem ALL TAKEN CARE OF HERE IN 'MURICA! Don't pay any attention to that TSA AGENT TRYING TO STICK HIS FINGER IN YOUR ASS, young brown-skinned guy. We don't have racism here anymore. Aren't you lucky?
33
@30 (LC) - Firstly, the 'Kalgoorlie Miner' - really? I know you've never been to Kalgoorlie, but it isn't exactly a fitting example of modern Australian culture. I'd hazard a guess that most urban Australians would chuckle at the 'Kalgoorlie Miner' being seriously used as a reference.
That aside (since it doesn't invalidate your point), you ought to read the first comment right there on the article. From the cartoonist:
"I didn’t make up the tragic news story on the increased abuse of Aboriginal children. It’s a sad and sorry stain on our indigenous welfare system.
The Productivity Commission report, Overcoming Indigenous Disadvantage, says Aboriginal children are six times more likely to be abused or neglected than non-Aboriginal children.
And yet the mainstream media was headlining with the custody disputes over Michael Jackson’s children. The irony was glaring."
I don't think drawing attention to the sorry state of Aboriginal community and culture (and, believe me, it is a sorry state) in Australia is the same as racism. But, I know you'll disagree.
LC, you're judging a country which I'm fairly confident in assuming you have never lived in, and possibly never visited. You're grasping for sources in the absence of first-hand experience. I'm not going to debate this with you any further. You don't know what you're talking about.
That aside (since it doesn't invalidate your point), you ought to read the first comment right there on the article. From the cartoonist:
"I didn’t make up the tragic news story on the increased abuse of Aboriginal children. It’s a sad and sorry stain on our indigenous welfare system.
The Productivity Commission report, Overcoming Indigenous Disadvantage, says Aboriginal children are six times more likely to be abused or neglected than non-Aboriginal children.
And yet the mainstream media was headlining with the custody disputes over Michael Jackson’s children. The irony was glaring."
I don't think drawing attention to the sorry state of Aboriginal community and culture (and, believe me, it is a sorry state) in Australia is the same as racism. But, I know you'll disagree.
LC, you're judging a country which I'm fairly confident in assuming you have never lived in, and possibly never visited. You're grasping for sources in the absence of first-hand experience. I'm not going to debate this with you any further. You don't know what you're talking about.
34
@33
Neither do you. Not that I expected you to see things differently. You have arrived at your conclusions solely based on your supposed 'travels' and mingling with white australians (therefor you adopt their same mindset of denial) to the extent of making such remarks as the one you did at #17, and have not experienced nor taken into account what Aborigines have to say about their own realities. Not what the australian government nor the people it really represents says about them.
P.S you don't know anything about where I have been to or not.
Neither do you. Not that I expected you to see things differently. You have arrived at your conclusions solely based on your supposed 'travels' and mingling with white australians (therefor you adopt their same mindset of denial) to the extent of making such remarks as the one you did at #17, and have not experienced nor taken into account what Aborigines have to say about their own realities. Not what the australian government nor the people it really represents says about them.
P.S you don't know anything about where I have been to or not.
35
Hush, LC.
Don't judge Dee based off a single comment.
Afterall, the archives have multiple comments of yours were you threaten violence. Multiple racist comments made by you towards your fellow African Americans, Mexican Americans, and Americans of European descent. Let alone your immoral position on supporting the Ugandan law that would exterminate gays and lesbians, because human rights are trumped by national sovereignty.
You have a lot of wrongly directed pride, to tell an actual Australian, who freely admits that her country has problems with racism, that she doesn't know anything.
But, that is your M.O. here. So full of yourself that we are all to bow to your authority and superiority.
You just made another hole in your glass house.
Don't judge Dee based off a single comment.
Afterall, the archives have multiple comments of yours were you threaten violence. Multiple racist comments made by you towards your fellow African Americans, Mexican Americans, and Americans of European descent. Let alone your immoral position on supporting the Ugandan law that would exterminate gays and lesbians, because human rights are trumped by national sovereignty.
You have a lot of wrongly directed pride, to tell an actual Australian, who freely admits that her country has problems with racism, that she doesn't know anything.
But, that is your M.O. here. So full of yourself that we are all to bow to your authority and superiority.
You just made another hole in your glass house.
36
1. "mingling with white australians"
Well, I am a white Australian - your point stands, if not your reading comprehension skills.
2. "experienced nor taken into account what Aborigines have to say about their own realities"
I lived in the Outback (just out of Alice Springs) for the better part of a year, whereby I was involved on a day-to-day basis with Aboriginal Australians, including being invited to gatherings at their homes and attending traditional meals (fire-roasted kangaroo tastes gamey, in case you were wondering) with them. I have met Aboriginal elders (tribe leaders). I have heard stories from Aborigines themselves about the drug-use (paint, typically), theft, violence and rape (including rape of children, by elders - often not openly condemned) that occurs in their modern lives.
Their native culture had some regrettable aspects - such as accepted violence against women, but we took away their land and their gods. There is no apology large enough for that, nor is there any way to return things to the way they were.
Don't you dare tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's the reason I know that you're talking out of your ass.
Well, I am a white Australian - your point stands, if not your reading comprehension skills.
2. "experienced nor taken into account what Aborigines have to say about their own realities"
I lived in the Outback (just out of Alice Springs) for the better part of a year, whereby I was involved on a day-to-day basis with Aboriginal Australians, including being invited to gatherings at their homes and attending traditional meals (fire-roasted kangaroo tastes gamey, in case you were wondering) with them. I have met Aboriginal elders (tribe leaders). I have heard stories from Aborigines themselves about the drug-use (paint, typically), theft, violence and rape (including rape of children, by elders - often not openly condemned) that occurs in their modern lives.
Their native culture had some regrettable aspects - such as accepted violence against women, but we took away their land and their gods. There is no apology large enough for that, nor is there any way to return things to the way they were.
Don't you dare tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's the reason I know that you're talking out of your ass.
37
And yeah, I hate to be the "well yes as-a-matter-of-fact I have been there and done that" blog commenter but dammit I have, and I only point it out since LC wants to spew bullshit all over the place. I know fuck-all about the vast majority things, but there are some things I do know about and damn right I'll be vocal about them if I have to.
38
Australian government and police criticizing an Indian cartoon = fair enough
Iranian government and clerics criticizing a Dutch cartoon = horrible bloodthirsty animals who must be stopped at all costs
I wonder why that is?
Iranian government and clerics criticizing a Dutch cartoon = horrible bloodthirsty animals who must be stopped at all costs
I wonder why that is?
39
@38. Seriously? People are not upset at Iranian's criticizing Dutch cartoons, they are upset at clerics preaching that there should be a violent response to the publishing of the cartoons which lead, amongst other things, the burning down of a Dutch embassy and the more recent home invasion of one of the cartoonists by an ax wielding maniac.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02…
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/20…
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02…
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/20…
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