Slog
News & ArtsThursday, January 7, 2010
International Australia to Suffer the Price of Racism
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:27 AM
BBC reports:
The number of Indian students wanting to study in Australia has slumped by almost 50%, according to figures from the Australian government.Indeed, when once I was in this situation—considering which university to attend, and my parents, who lived in Botswana at the time, had enough resources to send me to any university in the world—I had no confusions about where to go: America. Why? Because, despite all of its flaws, it's by far the most racially progressive country in the world. Europe? Hell to the no! Japan? Helly hell to the no!. China? Helly hell hellllll to the motherfucking no! America is the leading superpower (and will remain so) because it comes closest to being a mirror of the whole world, and the whole world is drawn to this mirror because each part of it can see itself in this mirror. These Indians should turn to America and stop wasting time. There is no where else to go. There is no point beyond America.The decline follows a year when attacks on Indian students in Melbourne and Sydney made headlines in India.
...The drop-off in applicants follows a spate of attacks on Indian students in Melbourne and Sydney in the first half of last year, and a rash of unfavourable headlines about the unscrupulous practices of some colleges and migration agents.The government figures are from last July to October - and it is feared that the recent murder of Nitin Garg will raise even more concerns about student safety, and lead many more to look at universities and colleges in other countries.
Certainly, that is the view of an education agent in India, who has said this most lucrative of markets was "absolutely doomed."
International students are worth $13bn (£8.1bn) to the Australian economy each year - after coal and iron ore, education is the country's third biggest export.
I'm sure Australia has no one in power who looks like this:
2
Very true. For some reason people think that Europe is far more progressive in this matter than the USA. What they fail to see is that we have gone through great lengths to make multiculturalism a cornerstone of our culture. Europe has entirely failed in this endeavor. Underneath the cool liberal exterior of your average European is an intensly xenophobic motherfucking fighting to get out. It's on their blood. Only difference is that their next explosion of violence will be aimed at the Muslims rather than their historical foil, the Jews.
4
"I love America!" "Down with capitalism!"
"It's great that fortunate Africans like me, can move across borders and emigrate to another continent and another nation where we can pursue happiness acocording to our own idividual star!"
"Down with globalism!"
"Look at Amanda! Her face! Her tatto! Her sultry eyes!"
Actually, I ,too think Amanda is innocent!"
"It's great that fortunate Africans like me, can move across borders and emigrate to another continent and another nation where we can pursue happiness acocording to our own idividual star!"
"Down with globalism!"
"Look at Amanda! Her face! Her tatto! Her sultry eyes!"
Actually, I ,too think Amanda is innocent!"
6
Finally, a decent Mudede post. Australia does have a racism problem. It's the big white elephant in the room that many Australians choose to ignore. The White Australia policy only ended in 1975, which is practically yesterday for all intents and purposes.
7
Oh great. Now we get to listen to all the Aussies tell us about how there's no racism in Australia again.
9
This report coming after I read most of the comments in this thread: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
10
And you're also right about the US. For all its problems, it's still one of the best most progressive places in the world to live. People who think Europe, Australia et al are so much better don't really travel. As an immigrant I am damn proud to be an American and extremely thankful my parents moved us here. There are so many ungrateful native-born Americans who think everything Europe does is better.
11
Charles is right.
America is not perfect but the ideals she strives for are superior to those of any other culture, and her people are big hearted in a way matched by few others.
Europe and Canada are more
socialist/nanny-state and appeal to liberals who are looking for momma's big titty to latch onto.
But if one seeks opportunity to pursue their own dreams with the least impediment and aren't afraid to bear the consequences of falling down a few times on the way to the dream America is unsurpassed.
America is not perfect but the ideals she strives for are superior to those of any other culture, and her people are big hearted in a way matched by few others.
Europe and Canada are more
socialist/nanny-state and appeal to liberals who are looking for momma's big titty to latch onto.
But if one seeks opportunity to pursue their own dreams with the least impediment and aren't afraid to bear the consequences of falling down a few times on the way to the dream America is unsurpassed.
13
Addressing race relations particularly, America is not perfect by any means but Liberals do not give the nation/culture credit for the great advances that have been made and the place we are today.
Those who consider America's race relations to be inferior to other nations' have not spent enough time in other culture(s) to gain an accurate feel for the true nature of race relations there. Often a seemingly placid surface masks a very dark underside that is not revealed until one seeks employment, education and social opportunities...
Those who consider America's race relations to be inferior to other nations' have not spent enough time in other culture(s) to gain an accurate feel for the true nature of race relations there. Often a seemingly placid surface masks a very dark underside that is not revealed until one seeks employment, education and social opportunities...
15
I think we all have problems with racism, Australia included.
Still, two of my newest personal heroes come from Australia: Vincent Lingiari and Eddie Mabo*. For me they join the ranks of Gandhi, MLK Jr., Barboncito and others as great examples of grace, justice, dignity, and peace. May their kind multiply.
* I'm indebted to an Aussie friend who educated me on these amazing men.
Still, two of my newest personal heroes come from Australia: Vincent Lingiari and Eddie Mabo*. For me they join the ranks of Gandhi, MLK Jr., Barboncito and others as great examples of grace, justice, dignity, and peace. May their kind multiply.
* I'm indebted to an Aussie friend who educated me on these amazing men.
17
How long until the Aussies show up en masse to tell us how Australia can't possibly be racist because other parts of the world (I'm rubber, you're glue, America!) have race issues too. I put the over/under at 2.5 hours.
Charles, you've clearly accepted Chicago Fan's challenge for other Sloggers to compete with Dan in the Most Commented sidebar.
Charles, you've clearly accepted Chicago Fan's challenge for other Sloggers to compete with Dan in the Most Commented sidebar.
18
@5: Since when do immigrants coming to Canada to attend university live on reservations?
On a different note, gosh some of you people are suckers. Talk about drinking your own kool-aid. Normally when Charles uses this kind of hyperbole, you tear him apart for it. But when it's used to praise America, you suddenly think it's great.
That statement -- "There is no where else to go. There is no point beyond America" -- is a lie. You know this. Why are you so willing to swallow lies about your country?
Anyway, thanks for putting things in perspective, Kim @15. And @17, you're absolutely right about Charles' motives. He's got my two cents, so I can't say it isn't working.
On a different note, gosh some of you people are suckers. Talk about drinking your own kool-aid. Normally when Charles uses this kind of hyperbole, you tear him apart for it. But when it's used to praise America, you suddenly think it's great.
That statement -- "There is no where else to go. There is no point beyond America" -- is a lie. You know this. Why are you so willing to swallow lies about your country?
Anyway, thanks for putting things in perspective, Kim @15. And @17, you're absolutely right about Charles' motives. He's got my two cents, so I can't say it isn't working.
19
The current governor of New South Wales, a significantly bigger deal than governor or Louisiana, is a Lebanese-Australian woman named Marie Bashir.
Australia is also the most immigrationist country in the world, with a quarter of its population born outside the country. And unlike the US these immigrants come from everywhere, not just a few areas.
I've argued forcefully in the other threat (about the blackface minstrels) that Australia has a great history of racism, and a shocking amount of it still today (and not just among the native-born whites). But it is a complex question. High-profile incidents of violence aside, Australia is coming to a global society like no other country -- in fact, that's what's CAUSING the violence, as conservative whites feel marginalized rather than enriched. Racial diversity isn't easy.
Australia still has a much deeper strain of overt racism, the kind that isn't afraid to talk publicly about niggers and wops and pakis and chows, without awareness or shame. That's reprehensible. So is their near-total avoidance of the subject of their own aboriginal population. But at the same time, they are creating multinational and multiracial populations in Melbourne and Sydney particularly that nowhere in the US can approach, not even in New York or Los Angeles -- and certainly not in lilywhite Seattle (whose emerging Latino, East African, and Chinese populations are marginalized in ways that would horrify Melburnians).
Australia is also the most immigrationist country in the world, with a quarter of its population born outside the country. And unlike the US these immigrants come from everywhere, not just a few areas.
I've argued forcefully in the other threat (about the blackface minstrels) that Australia has a great history of racism, and a shocking amount of it still today (and not just among the native-born whites). But it is a complex question. High-profile incidents of violence aside, Australia is coming to a global society like no other country -- in fact, that's what's CAUSING the violence, as conservative whites feel marginalized rather than enriched. Racial diversity isn't easy.
Australia still has a much deeper strain of overt racism, the kind that isn't afraid to talk publicly about niggers and wops and pakis and chows, without awareness or shame. That's reprehensible. So is their near-total avoidance of the subject of their own aboriginal population. But at the same time, they are creating multinational and multiracial populations in Melbourne and Sydney particularly that nowhere in the US can approach, not even in New York or Los Angeles -- and certainly not in lilywhite Seattle (whose emerging Latino, East African, and Chinese populations are marginalized in ways that would horrify Melburnians).
20
#18 Of course people visiting Canada to study don't live on reservations. Clever of you to notice.
22
Fnarf is right, and Charles is right too. I'm an Australian that's lived in the US for 5 years. I lived in Ireland and the UK before that. Every country in the world has trouble with racism. Americans, like they tend to do on just about every subject, think that their way of dealing with a problem (or even just their perspective) is better than everyone else's.
Racism in Australia is pretty ugly. The more overt offerings are born from naivety. Unfortunately the same can not be said of a lot of the overt racism in the US (KKK?), or neo-nazism in Europe.
Also, Charles, if your trying to win an argument about the success of diversity by holding up Bobby Jindal you might want to do some research. He voted to build a fence along the Mexican border, thinks all Government service should be in English ONLY , and voted to declare English the official language of the US. All hail diversity, except when it bothers you.
Racism in Australia is pretty ugly. The more overt offerings are born from naivety. Unfortunately the same can not be said of a lot of the overt racism in the US (KKK?), or neo-nazism in Europe.
Also, Charles, if your trying to win an argument about the success of diversity by holding up Bobby Jindal you might want to do some research. He voted to build a fence along the Mexican border, thinks all Government service should be in English ONLY , and voted to declare English the official language of the US. All hail diversity, except when it bothers you.
23
Specific to the topic under discussion here, I absolutely guarantee that the student body of, say, Monash University is many times more racially and ethnically diverse than the UW. For one thing, Monash has actual full-service campuses in foreign countries (Monash Malaysia, Monash South Africa). The UW has campuses in (ahem) Bothell and Tacoma.
30% of Monash's students in Australia come from outside Australia, from over 100 different countries. The UW can't touch that (5% international, 3% -- THREE PERCENT! -- African-American).
30% of Monash's students in Australia come from outside Australia, from over 100 different countries. The UW can't touch that (5% international, 3% -- THREE PERCENT! -- African-American).
25
"if your trying to win an argument about the success of diversity by holding up Bobby Jindal you might want to do some research"
Exactly....all real colored people are liberals. Conservative coloreds don't count.
Exactly....all real colored people are liberals. Conservative coloreds don't count.
26
Thank you, mike88. It's well about time Americans stop waxing auspiciously about Canada being the panacea the U.S. is not. Clearly, most Americans have no concept of the Indian Acts of 1876 and 1985, the Komagata Maru, Inuit residential schools, the Chinese Head Tax, allophones in Québec, the infrastructure neglect of the Kashechewan reservation, the attempted steamrolling of the James Bay Cree, the Oka Crisis, Calendonia, and on and on and on. Let's not bring up the whole bodybags debacle in light of the H1N1 preparation.
Not that the U.S. is angelic by any stretch. Tokens are a dime a dozen there.
GWN (@1) must be living in Alberta.
Not that the U.S. is angelic by any stretch. Tokens are a dime a dozen there.
GWN (@1) must be living in Alberta.
28
Wow, so this is what liberal patriotism looks like! "My nation is less racist than your nation"! I have not been to Australia, but I have heard some stories, especially with regards to their attitudes about women. But that was 10 years ago, and besides, they are more liberal about human nudity, so they can't be that bad, right?
So, while we pat ourselves on our red white and blue backs, we can turn our eye away from how we treat our poor, regardless of color.
So, while we pat ourselves on our red white and blue backs, we can turn our eye away from how we treat our poor, regardless of color.
29
@22
Diversity is only successful
when it promotes people who
BELIEVE EXACTLY LIKE I DO.
please make a note of it...
Diversity is only successful
when it promotes people who
BELIEVE EXACTLY LIKE I DO.
please make a note of it...
30
@28 -- You're right. We shoulder never grant our commitment to collective guilt even a moment of respite. Ever.
"America is the leading superpower (and will remain so) because it comes closest to being a mirror of the whole world, and the whole world is drawn to this mirror because each part of it can see itself in this mirror."
That is a sentiment of beautiful simplicity with a no-brainer policy corrolary: Oppose. Immigration. Reform.
It's a big fucking table. The more, the merrier.
"America is the leading superpower (and will remain so) because it comes closest to being a mirror of the whole world, and the whole world is drawn to this mirror because each part of it can see itself in this mirror."
That is a sentiment of beautiful simplicity with a no-brainer policy corrolary: Oppose. Immigration. Reform.
It's a big fucking table. The more, the merrier.
31
The U.S. might be diverse and have the world represented within its borders, but boy is it *segregated*. Black neighborhoods, white ones, Mexican ones, Italian ones, etc. Different ethnicities don't mix. Wanna know what a racially *integrated* society looks like? Go to Brazil to educate yourself before you open your mouth. We don't have that in the U.S.
In terms of classism, the U.S. is a far better place than Europe. Much more rigid, defined, class structure there, and it's impossible to move between classes. And the reason why Americans always look to Europe as being better is its leftover colonial sentiment. Europe is the wise, old parent; the USA is young, dumb, kid. Doesn't work though. We're far more innovative in the U.S. & often more successful than they are on many counts and it pisses the Brits off (in particular) to no end.
In terms of classism, the U.S. is a far better place than Europe. Much more rigid, defined, class structure there, and it's impossible to move between classes. And the reason why Americans always look to Europe as being better is its leftover colonial sentiment. Europe is the wise, old parent; the USA is young, dumb, kid. Doesn't work though. We're far more innovative in the U.S. & often more successful than they are on many counts and it pisses the Brits off (in particular) to no end.
32
P.S. Bobby Jindal? Indian. You know what that means?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6161691.stm
Just sayin'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6161691.stm
Just sayin'.
33
If you people were not a bunch of naive white-guilt liberals who hate themselves, and you did a little more research, you would discover the fact that almost all these attacks on Indians have been committed by Africans and Lebanese, and not by white Australians. Wake the fuck up to reality you naive crybabies.
34
I agree that Canada's history and current policies w.r.t. our 1st Nations People is horrible, but in general, I still think we've been a country more open to diversity than the U.S. or Europe. We ended slavery much earlier, we never had segregation, in my current city, I know as many mixed-race couples as I know same-race couples. Plus, diversity of religious beliefs is expected, which, I think, is the key difference for me.
In the U.S., it seems like it's OK to be brown if you're a conservative Christian, but the default assumption in Canada seems to be less Judeo Christian.
That said, I've tended to stick to major cities for the past decade or so. Perhaps if I was in a small town on the prairies, I would think differently.
In the U.S., it seems like it's OK to be brown if you're a conservative Christian, but the default assumption in Canada seems to be less Judeo Christian.
That said, I've tended to stick to major cities for the past decade or so. Perhaps if I was in a small town on the prairies, I would think differently.
35
Lovely post, Charles, thank you. Your mirror metaphor is especially nice.
@ 11 - Thank you, you put it beautifully. Of course every country on earth is (still) plagued with racism and America is no different. What IS different about America is our stated, official intention of being a beacon of light and hope to the world -- we openly declare ourselves to be a mosaic of all humanity, a place where anyone can come and pursue life, liberty and happiness.
Our challenge, of course, is to live up to those famous words.
@ 11 - Thank you, you put it beautifully. Of course every country on earth is (still) plagued with racism and America is no different. What IS different about America is our stated, official intention of being a beacon of light and hope to the world -- we openly declare ourselves to be a mosaic of all humanity, a place where anyone can come and pursue life, liberty and happiness.
Our challenge, of course, is to live up to those famous words.
36
@ 2,
Europe is still extremely anti-Semitic, and growing more so every year, so I doubt that Muslims will replace Jews for "most hated" status.
@ 26,
Pretty much all the evil shit the Canadian government did to the Native populations there, the U.S. did here. Neither country's past is more or less virtuous than the other. Canada has advanced in civil rights and diversity lately, but their roots are similar, if not the same as ours. It's their current advances most liberal Americans admire, just as we condemn the U.S. backslide into ignorance, conservatism, greed, and illogic.
Europe is still extremely anti-Semitic, and growing more so every year, so I doubt that Muslims will replace Jews for "most hated" status.
@ 26,
Pretty much all the evil shit the Canadian government did to the Native populations there, the U.S. did here. Neither country's past is more or less virtuous than the other. Canada has advanced in civil rights and diversity lately, but their roots are similar, if not the same as ours. It's their current advances most liberal Americans admire, just as we condemn the U.S. backslide into ignorance, conservatism, greed, and illogic.
37
@39, lost in my sarcasm was the idea that race is the wrong place for America or any other society to judge itself, it is how we treat those born of lesser means that we need to criticize ourselves on. With frequent moments of respite from our self inposed guilt and self flagellation, of course.
38
Thank you Fnarf (wow, I really did just write that) for your points re: Australia's multiculturalism.
As an Australian living in the US, I do jump to the defense of Australia in a lot of issues. We have a different type of racism in Australia, and yes, it is prevalent in some areas. The stories you hear (such as these re: Indians) tend to occur in the few suburbs that are renown for being rough (and not surprisingly, for being home to a lot of young, idiotic males of varying cultures). A lot of the fighting arises from tension between different foreign groups.
That being said, having lived mostly in the cities and inner suburbs myself, the majority of places - by far - have a degree of multiculturalism which dwarfs America's, and continues to make me proud.
The snakes, spiders and sharks are a bit nasty, though -- feel free to bitch about them, I won't argue!
@35 - were you looking at a waving American flag when you wrote that? Which other countries have you lived in, that you're so confidently comparing the US to?
"What IS different about America is our stated, official intention of being a beacon of light and hope to the world -- we openly declare ourselves to be a mosaic of all humanity, a place where anyone can come and pursue life, liberty and happiness."
Australia does exactly the same thing, tyvm. It's in our national anthem, and I haven't been to an Australia Day parade where some mayor hasn't stood up and made a speech mentioning how brilliant our diversity is and how acceptance is one of our strengths (mayors such as Chinese-Australian John So, Lord Mayor of Melbourne for 7 years, named World Mayor in '06). A beacon of light and hope in the world, my ass. Anyone can come and pursue life, liberty and happiness... unless you're Mexican, or look like you might be from the middle-east. Oh, and you'll also need $3,000+ of filing fees and a couple of years waiting for your green card. And we'll take your prints just for the hell of it - yeah, all of them - that's called liberty, which you'd know if you spoke English, you f-ing foreigner.
More...
As an Australian living in the US, I do jump to the defense of Australia in a lot of issues. We have a different type of racism in Australia, and yes, it is prevalent in some areas. The stories you hear (such as these re: Indians) tend to occur in the few suburbs that are renown for being rough (and not surprisingly, for being home to a lot of young, idiotic males of varying cultures). A lot of the fighting arises from tension between different foreign groups.
That being said, having lived mostly in the cities and inner suburbs myself, the majority of places - by far - have a degree of multiculturalism which dwarfs America's, and continues to make me proud.
The snakes, spiders and sharks are a bit nasty, though -- feel free to bitch about them, I won't argue!
@35 - were you looking at a waving American flag when you wrote that? Which other countries have you lived in, that you're so confidently comparing the US to?
"What IS different about America is our stated, official intention of being a beacon of light and hope to the world -- we openly declare ourselves to be a mosaic of all humanity, a place where anyone can come and pursue life, liberty and happiness."
Australia does exactly the same thing, tyvm. It's in our national anthem, and I haven't been to an Australia Day parade where some mayor hasn't stood up and made a speech mentioning how brilliant our diversity is and how acceptance is one of our strengths (mayors such as Chinese-Australian John So, Lord Mayor of Melbourne for 7 years, named World Mayor in '06). A beacon of light and hope in the world, my ass. Anyone can come and pursue life, liberty and happiness... unless you're Mexican, or look like you might be from the middle-east. Oh, and you'll also need $3,000+ of filing fees and a couple of years waiting for your green card. And we'll take your prints just for the hell of it - yeah, all of them - that's called liberty, which you'd know if you spoke English, you f-ing foreigner.
39
"Australia is a developed country, with a prosperous multicultural society and excellent results in many international comparisons of national performance such as human development, quality of life, health care, life expectancy, public education, economic freedom, and the protection of civil liberties and political rights. "
Just sayin'. And we don't have half as many white supremacist groups. Also, we don't have guns, so you don't open the paper once a week to read about the latest homicide. Oh, and Australia has never started any wars, only joined our allies on the ones they start (you're welcome).
And for the record, foreign-born Australian Senators include Cormann, Wong, Ellison, Evans, Abeta, Sherry, Ludlam and Stephens. And I'm sure there's an Indian fellow in the House of Representatives.
Just sayin'. And we don't have half as many white supremacist groups. Also, we don't have guns, so you don't open the paper once a week to read about the latest homicide. Oh, and Australia has never started any wars, only joined our allies on the ones they start (you're welcome).
And for the record, foreign-born Australian Senators include Cormann, Wong, Ellison, Evans, Abeta, Sherry, Ludlam and Stephens. And I'm sure there's an Indian fellow in the House of Representatives.
40
...we do have a LOT of yobbo idiots, though. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph…
I'm just saying: don't judge a country based on a small percentage of goons. I could pull up a wealth of articles on race-based hate crimes in the US, but it wouldn't right to base an opinion of the whole country on that.
I'm just saying: don't judge a country based on a small percentage of goons. I could pull up a wealth of articles on race-based hate crimes in the US, but it wouldn't right to base an opinion of the whole country on that.
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