Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, January 5, 2010
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: I'm In Love With My Stepbrother
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:26 PM
I'm a 22 year-old-closeted gay man and I'm in love with my stepbrother. I've known him most of my life. Our parents married when we were both 12 and we became best friends, I was closer to him than I was to my own biological brothers and sisters. But even way back than I knew it was because I loved him. So I was psyched when he told our parents that he was gay and everyone gave him love and support—except my dad, who was very against it. But after that I had a hard time being close to him and we kind of lost the bond we's shared. We became even more distant after he started dating someone. This is where I need advice: two years after he came out were going to be living under the same roof again now that were done with college. I don’t know what to do. First, it would kill my dad to find out that I’m gay too. He’s one of those super old fashioned guys that always pushed me into sports and dating the hottest girls. And to find out that the only person I really want to be with is a family member? I’ve felt this way since I was 12 and I can’t imagine being content in a relationship until I deal with this.In Desperate Need Of Direction
My response after the jump...
Let's take your issues one at a time, IDNOD.
First, you have got to come out of the closet already. For your own personal growth, for your own personal sanity. Your dad will get over it, IDNOD, or the news will kill him. Either way you come out ahead. Unless you're prepared to spend the next four of five decades of your life in the closet—unless you're willing to remain closeted until something else kills your dad—you might as well come out now and get it the fuck over with.
Second, your step-sibling...
Geez. That's a tough call. You can tell your stepbrother how you feel, how you've always felt, and let the chips fall where they may. (But tell him after one of you finds a job and moves out; if you've waited this long, you can wait another few months.) If he doesn't feel the same way, IDNOD, count a nice long period of awkwardness and estrangement. But, hey, that'll help you to finally get over him. Should he feel the same way about you, IDNOD, things could get really complicated really fast. There's nothing technically incestuous about a sexual relationship, should you enter into one; you're not related by blood and you were brought together at age 12. However awkward it is for folks who saw you two as brothers—your parents, your other siblings—it's entirely possible that you two never bonded as siblings emotionally. And the failure of the incest taboo to kick into gear isn't your fault. And with all the blended families out there, IDNOD, you can't be the first brought-together-late-in-childhood stepsiblings who have ever fallen in love. And as someone-or-other once said: "The heart wants what it wants." And if the world can learn to tolerate this—I mean, my God—it can certainly learn to tolerate the two of you.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves here: should your stepbrother feel the same way about you... and if you two wind up dating (on the sly at first)... and then falling in love... and need to come out about the relationship to the rest of family... break the news after making them all watch Clueless with you. If I remember correctly a pair of stepsiblings meet cute and fall in love in that 1996 romantic comedy.
1
What are the odds that he'll come out and lose interest in the stepbro? In other words, how much of his love for this guy is tangled up in his closetedness and his envy of the guy's "out" life?
3
I would advise IDNOD to first come out to his parents, and then to go out and have some grown up relationships first, before he ever says anything to his stepbrother about his feelings. That IDNOD is 22 and believes that he fell in love at 12 tells me he'd never really been in love and needs to go out and explore a bit before he'll know what love is.
Even if he's never bonded with his step as a brother, he is for all intents and purposes his brother, and they're going to have to hang out together after any declaration of love (and relationship, and subsequent heartbreak) and that's a pretty serious relationship to mess with if it's not really love.
Most of us grown ups realize that there are some people who are simply off limits, whether it be a cousin, a friend's or sibling's ex, or a boss, and we move on.
Even if he's never bonded with his step as a brother, he is for all intents and purposes his brother, and they're going to have to hang out together after any declaration of love (and relationship, and subsequent heartbreak) and that's a pretty serious relationship to mess with if it's not really love.
Most of us grown ups realize that there are some people who are simply off limits, whether it be a cousin, a friend's or sibling's ex, or a boss, and we move on.
5
IDNOD, you should just kill yourself. Definitely. Because if you're 22 and still this immature, there's no fucking hope for you.
8
I know Dan is joking, but this seems unduly harsh on IDNOD's dad. It's his dad, and his only crime (that we know of) is not being supportive of his gay stepson. If someone said that my dad would get over it, or the news would kill him, and either way I would come out ahead . . . I would get really angry and definitely not follow any of the accompanying advice.
9
@5 just read Paul Constant's comment about "Improving comment culture". It really mystified me, knowing that fuckwads like you lurk around here for the sole reason of trying to make people feel terrible.
IDNOD, just ignore this dildo.
IDNOD, just ignore this dildo.
10
If you haven't even come out to the stepbrother, try that first. You may find he's felt the same way. Then hit it.
11
"Allen and Farrow's only biological son, Ronan Seamus Farrow, said of Allen: "He's my father married to my sister. That makes me his son and his brother-in-law. That is such a moral transgression. I cannot see him. I cannot have a relationship with my father and be morally consistent.... I lived with all these adopted children, so they are my family. To say Soon-Yi was not my sister is an insult to all adopted children."
May God guide this young man to do the right thing, keep him from selfish thoughts that could end up destroying his family, like the one cited.
May God guide this young man to do the right thing, keep him from selfish thoughts that could end up destroying his family, like the one cited.
12
Now now, 5280, 22 is still a kid. Write him off if he's still this way at 32, but 22 is still pretty young. (Sorry, youngish 20-somethings but it's true.)
13
Wow, I'm gonna have to go with a get the fuck over it and move on... I think spilling the beans to the step brother will do way more harm than good. I think coming out to your family and finding some nice boys to date will help you get over it. It sounds like a childhood crush that has been dragged on way too long. Good luck!
16
@14: Um, hello? Yeah, we all do, thus the level of screwing around in comments you can see here (including my own).
17
If it's not fake, it doesn't sound like "omg, i haev feelins 4 my stepbro".
It sounds like "I want to be coddled out of the closet, here's a diversion so you can pad your coming out advice".
It sounds like "I want to be coddled out of the closet, here's a diversion so you can pad your coming out advice".
18
Man, I would want to be sure, really sure, about my feelings for the stepbrother before talking to him about it. And, in my mind, that would mean IDNOD coming out and having a few real world relationships first. Even if he thinks those relationships are doomed to fail because he hasn't gotten over the stepbrother yet. But, yeah, coming out would be the first step. If he really wants to assess the situation with the stepbrother, the "hey I'm gay too" conversation with him might provide some clues as to how the stepbrother feels, without IDNOD tipping his hand too much.
19
When I was young I was madly, passionately in love with one guy. I thought there'd never be anyone else for me. Guess what... after dating for 2 months he dumped me and I got over it. Everyone loves someone who is off limits at some time, part of living is getting over it and moving on. Good luck to him in the future but don't stress so much over the brother. It'll all work out. There's a ton of hot, sweet guys out there.
20
@12: Great, I've been married for 3 years and I'm still a kid. If this isn't even adulthood yet - actual adulthood must be fucking terrible.
@Loveschild: Two gay step-brothers are not similar to a dude fucking his stepdaughter. There was a 34-year age difference between Previn and Allen, and he was in a position of adult responsibility in her life.
IDNOD, this will only frustrate you if you're reading this, but all I can think of is how GOD DAMN AWESOME having sex with your step-brother would be after wanting him for so long. Plus, the whole semi-forbidden aspect. HOT. Totally hot.
Or, it could be office-romance terrible and awkward, but worrying about that scenario will do you no good.
That being said, I wouldn't advise to go do it straight away. I agree that it might be a good idea to get involved with a few other guys first, and get some experience in a less complicated scenario.
And, if you ever decide to do anything with your step-brother, come out to your parents first, because the shock of finding out all at once that your son is not only gay but also doing your other son is probably fairly heart-attack inducing.
@Loveschild: Two gay step-brothers are not similar to a dude fucking his stepdaughter. There was a 34-year age difference between Previn and Allen, and he was in a position of adult responsibility in her life.
IDNOD, this will only frustrate you if you're reading this, but all I can think of is how GOD DAMN AWESOME having sex with your step-brother would be after wanting him for so long. Plus, the whole semi-forbidden aspect. HOT. Totally hot.
Or, it could be office-romance terrible and awkward, but worrying about that scenario will do you no good.
That being said, I wouldn't advise to go do it straight away. I agree that it might be a good idea to get involved with a few other guys first, and get some experience in a less complicated scenario.
And, if you ever decide to do anything with your step-brother, come out to your parents first, because the shock of finding out all at once that your son is not only gay but also doing your other son is probably fairly heart-attack inducing.
22
I think Dan was right to separate the two issues, but I don't think he went far enough. Right now, since IDNOD is still closeted, the stepbrother may seem like the only viable option in a very, very small world. Once IDNOD comes out and starts participating more in an active dating pool, the stepbrother may not seem as interesting or at least, approaching him may seem less worth the risks.
23
IDNOD might want to check out "Lone Star" in addition to "Clueless" if he wants to feel better about a not-quite-incestuous relationship.
25
I can't help but feel that the closeted boy is latching onto the only figure he find available. If he comes out and lives a gay life, he may get a crush on someone oustide his family.
27
I'm in the "it's fake" camp, but since it's a sex fantasy anyway, I say keep it hot & clandestine.
28
@ 8 - I agree.
Much to my frustration, my bf is in the closet to most everyone in his life, but I cut him some slack when it comes to his dad. Dad will not be on this earth too much longer, he's very traditional like the LW's dad, and sometimes you look at a situation like this and just have to say, "Why rock the boat?"
Much to my frustration, my bf is in the closet to most everyone in his life, but I cut him some slack when it comes to his dad. Dad will not be on this earth too much longer, he's very traditional like the LW's dad, and sometimes you look at a situation like this and just have to say, "Why rock the boat?"
29
@20, yeah I hate to break it to you but no matter how married you are, how "mature" you are, at 22 you've still got a lot of growing up to do. What, did you think there was something magical about age 18? Or age 21?
My advice is to get the fuck out of the closet and get out and start dating outside of the family. IDNOD's waited to act on these feelings since he was 12, so another year or so won't kill him.
My guess is that this awkward crush will shrivel up and melt away as soon as he gets into the world of possibilities out there in the larger world. And by not disclosing it, IDNOD will save himself an awful lot of embarrassment and difficult family dinners.
On the off chance that step-brother really and truly is "the one," that will become apparent after you've both been out in the dating scene for a while.
One other thing: if your step brother is with someone else, absolutely under no circumstances whatsoever should IDNOD come out with this. It's guaranteed to kill the relationship and will lead to nothing but trouble.
My advice is to get the fuck out of the closet and get out and start dating outside of the family. IDNOD's waited to act on these feelings since he was 12, so another year or so won't kill him.
My guess is that this awkward crush will shrivel up and melt away as soon as he gets into the world of possibilities out there in the larger world. And by not disclosing it, IDNOD will save himself an awful lot of embarrassment and difficult family dinners.
On the off chance that step-brother really and truly is "the one," that will become apparent after you've both been out in the dating scene for a while.
One other thing: if your step brother is with someone else, absolutely under no circumstances whatsoever should IDNOD come out with this. It's guaranteed to kill the relationship and will lead to nothing but trouble.
30
I don't think it is fake. I know a guy who still has a sexual relationship with his step-brother, and they've been at it since they were teenagers.
Of course, IDNOD just needs to come out, meet more gay men, make more gay friends, and most likely he will develop some crushes and get over his step-brother.
Of course, IDNOD just needs to come out, meet more gay men, make more gay friends, and most likely he will develop some crushes and get over his step-brother.
31
agree with many here: first come out and screw/date around a little. if you still feel that way in five, ten years, you still can let your step brother know.
@8:
"his only crime (that we know of) is not being supportive of his gay stepson"
i assume youre not homosexual yourself, and "not being supportive of his gay stepson" seems like a purely political debate, and ultimately not a very big deal. let me spell it out what it means for IDNOD: it means that his dad doesnt love him the way he is. sure, he may get over it, i sure hope he will, but we dont know that. and yeah, dan is joking, but some homos really would be better off with their homophobic parents dead.
@8:
"his only crime (that we know of) is not being supportive of his gay stepson"
i assume youre not homosexual yourself, and "not being supportive of his gay stepson" seems like a purely political debate, and ultimately not a very big deal. let me spell it out what it means for IDNOD: it means that his dad doesnt love him the way he is. sure, he may get over it, i sure hope he will, but we dont know that. and yeah, dan is joking, but some homos really would be better off with their homophobic parents dead.
32
My uncle married his step-sister, and they've had a long and generally successful marriage. (They became step-siblings while at college, but they did date while coming home to live under the same roof during college vacations.) We grew up in a smallish town, and my cousins got no end of giggles from telling anyone who asked that their parents were brother and sister.
I do agree with the majority of Sloggers that IDNOD should come out, if not to his dad, at least in general, including to his stepbro, and get busy with at least a couple of unrelated other guys before even thinking about confessing his crush.
I do agree with the majority of Sloggers that IDNOD should come out, if not to his dad, at least in general, including to his stepbro, and get busy with at least a couple of unrelated other guys before even thinking about confessing his crush.
33
Dan is right to separate the two issues. I don't really think it matters what order IDNOD accomplishes this.
You need to come out. Living in the closet is a nightmare. Whether or not you ever date the step-brother, you can't live your whole life in the closet, or you'll go insane (ie: Larry Craig, Ted Haggard, etc).
The first, easiest person to come out to is your step-brother. You already know he'll be accepting. Talk to him about his experience in the gay scene. He might be greatly helpful transitioning through the comming-out process. You'll probably find a time to bring up your crush on him at some point.
If you end up dating the step-bro, I would not be public about it as long as you are living at home. That is likely to cause extreme awkwardness. Come out as gay, but keep your relationship private... at least until you move out. Or get an apartment together and come out to the family later. Whatever.
But don't let the excuse of not being out to your father keep you from pursuing your step-brother or dating other guys. Those are completely separate issues.
You need to come out. Living in the closet is a nightmare. Whether or not you ever date the step-brother, you can't live your whole life in the closet, or you'll go insane (ie: Larry Craig, Ted Haggard, etc).
The first, easiest person to come out to is your step-brother. You already know he'll be accepting. Talk to him about his experience in the gay scene. He might be greatly helpful transitioning through the comming-out process. You'll probably find a time to bring up your crush on him at some point.
If you end up dating the step-bro, I would not be public about it as long as you are living at home. That is likely to cause extreme awkwardness. Come out as gay, but keep your relationship private... at least until you move out. Or get an apartment together and come out to the family later. Whatever.
But don't let the excuse of not being out to your father keep you from pursuing your step-brother or dating other guys. Those are completely separate issues.
34
fearing the conservative dad (unless you rely on him for money) is just wrong. You are an adult at 22 and have all the rights of the dad. I had one of those dads and finally at the age of 50, came out (after marrying my high school girlfriend and raising 3 children) W/ a painful divorce and a whole lot of rejection. After listening to my dad passive/aggressively discussing antigay legislation the next 4 yrs., I finally stood up to him and said,"look dad, I'm your son and I'm a big homosexual, now I know you don't understand why and neither do I, but I do know I didn't choose it so either god made me this way or it's your fault for not being a present enough father and if you can't accept that then I'm wasting your time as well as mine". That was 5 yrs. ago and now at the age of 89 he is a better person because of that. I want to encourage the 22 yr. old to come out to family early,...we owe it to them.
35
@29: Nah, I don't think I'm very mature. A lot of growing up to do, sure... but I'll still have growing up to do at 30. There are no magical ages at all - it's one long process.
Admittedly, I do think I have encountered a fairly varied range of life experiences for someone my age - but, perhaps most people my age think that as well. I just found it amusing because if this isn't adult life yet, then I don't want to know what is. More of a chuckle-some thought than a "WUT? I AM PLENTY MATURE", so you don't have to worry about breaking it to me, hehe.
Admittedly, I do think I have encountered a fairly varied range of life experiences for someone my age - but, perhaps most people my age think that as well. I just found it amusing because if this isn't adult life yet, then I don't want to know what is. More of a chuckle-some thought than a "WUT? I AM PLENTY MATURE", so you don't have to worry about breaking it to me, hehe.
36
"He’s one of those super old fashioned guys that always pushed me into sports and dating the hottest girls."
I suspect IDNOD's dad already knows/suspects his son is gay and has a crush on his step-brother...else, why push so hard for him to be "straight" and "butch".
I suspect IDNOD's dad already knows/suspects his son is gay and has a crush on his step-brother...else, why push so hard for him to be "straight" and "butch".
38
@ Dee, no, you more or less cease to keep growing up by 27 or so. That doesn't mean that you don't or can't grow, but you're pretty much unalterably the same person from that point forward, which can't be said about life up to that point. Major life changes are about the only thing that can do that, as opposed to simple, everyday living when you're younger.
That said, I've known some very grown up teen and some 60 year olds who stopped maturing about 45 years prior. I never judge someone's maturity by their age alone.
That said, I've known some very grown up teen and some 60 year olds who stopped maturing about 45 years prior. I never judge someone's maturity by their age alone.
40
Am I the only person who isn't totally over my teenage crushes? I came out 13 years ago, and settled down to a happy marriage 5 years ago. But if one of my teenage crushes were to throw himself at me (and if he were still hot), I don't think I could be held responsible for my actions.
41
Thanks Dan! And all the constructive comments.
This is IDNOD, I didn't include that I have dated before and have had a gay relationship but it never worked out because I didn't like him the way I liked Trevor.
And I think I'll try get close to him again and than tell him that I'm gay too and than feel it out I guess, I'm happy I have something to work with now cuz I was lost as hell.
This is IDNOD, I didn't include that I have dated before and have had a gay relationship but it never worked out because I didn't like him the way I liked Trevor.
And I think I'll try get close to him again and than tell him that I'm gay too and than feel it out I guess, I'm happy I have something to work with now cuz I was lost as hell.
44
Uh, IDNOD @41, did you read Dan's advice? He said (and I paraphrase) STEP ONE, come out, THEN deal with Trevor. I do mean to be constructive here: you need to deal with who you are before you can go for what you want.
Look at it this way: what in the world makes you think your openly gay stepsib is going to want to deal with a closeted admirer in his own household? I could see getting it on with a relative by marriage, sure. But being in the closet would be a dealbreaker for me. In fact, I'd be scanning Craigslist for sublets within five minutes of your reveal.
Sheesh!
Look at it this way: what in the world makes you think your openly gay stepsib is going to want to deal with a closeted admirer in his own household? I could see getting it on with a relative by marriage, sure. But being in the closet would be a dealbreaker for me. In fact, I'd be scanning Craigslist for sublets within five minutes of your reveal.
Sheesh!
46
Remember 'Wuthering Heights'? Heathcliff and Katherine were raised as brother and sister and if she hadn't died in childbirth, they might have lived happily ever after instead of happily ever hereafter on the moors ... and of course, Emily Bronte (the 'mannish' sister) has long been believed by scholars to have been a lesbian. Perhaps she's smiling down on IDNOD from her perch in literary heaven ...
47
While I'm not in love with them, two of the guys I grew up with both turned out to be gay. I think our parents would have no problem with it if we were, either. Furthermore, my parents are second cousins (yes, by blood, they had the same last name before they were married), and my family had absolutely no problem with it. While it may suck for this boy, and right now he may want a pity party (who doesn't from time to time?), ultimately he will be all right. I'm just trying to let him know he's not some freak. Most of my family doesn't know I'm gay, and I'm 29. Just saying...
48
@26 - I think Irene @24 meant Soon-Yi Previn is the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow and Andre Previn. She is not a "step-daughter" per se re: family blood ties.
Even though it's as close as you could get and still be utterly creepy.
Even though it's as close as you could get and still be utterly creepy.
49
dan you always make it sound so simple ...get out of the closet you say..i told my sister and the reaction was crickets ..nothing.." oh really" she said looking stunned.. my brother said "oh well its you life i guess" i never baby sat his kids again..both told me they didnt want to be around if i told my mother...i finally got the guts to talk to them after almost 3 years of therapy and i was not young i tried to keep it in me my entire life ( i got aol that was the downfall ;0) after these scenes with my sister and brother i just dropped the idea about telling the rest of my good irish catholic family including my mother ..whose reaction i would expect to be far worse than my sister and brother...telling people to just get it over with sounds easy enough ill never have a chance with my nieces and nephews God only knows what they've been told..i see friends who have family that buy their bf birthday gifts..i cant even imagine that ...its not alwyts so easy
50
I agree with you, Dan. However, I think this letter is a complete fabrication designed to corner you morally. The clue is the sentence "And to find out that the only person I really want to be with is a family member?" No way someone who is that in love and has spent that much time thinking about it doesn't realize that it's not biologically a family member, or hasn't already considered what you correctly pointed out about sibling bonding.
I'd be surprised if you haven't already received a series of similar well-crafted letters that appeal to exceptional circumstances and describe real love between individuals in closer and closer familial circumstances just so that some nutbar Christian can later refer to them as proof that gays are total incest freaks with no moral boundaries blah blah slippery slope blah and therefore letting them marry is dangerous to families - blah.
Anyway, if it feels icky DON'T DO IT. If it really feels right, there's no biological taboo against this specific situation. Maybe the Christian Right should be harassing the royal families of Europe, teeming with inbreds as they are, instead of gays.
"Dear Dan: I'm a third-generation baronet from a conservative fiefdom in east Europe and my second cousin by marriage's niece twice removed has lived in our castle since she was crowned as a viscountess. She has great tits. What should I do?" So transparent, these fundamentalists are.
I'd be surprised if you haven't already received a series of similar well-crafted letters that appeal to exceptional circumstances and describe real love between individuals in closer and closer familial circumstances just so that some nutbar Christian can later refer to them as proof that gays are total incest freaks with no moral boundaries blah blah slippery slope blah and therefore letting them marry is dangerous to families - blah.
Anyway, if it feels icky DON'T DO IT. If it really feels right, there's no biological taboo against this specific situation. Maybe the Christian Right should be harassing the royal families of Europe, teeming with inbreds as they are, instead of gays.
"Dear Dan: I'm a third-generation baronet from a conservative fiefdom in east Europe and my second cousin by marriage's niece twice removed has lived in our castle since she was crowned as a viscountess. She has great tits. What should I do?" So transparent, these fundamentalists are.
51
Dan are you thinking of the Brady Bunch movie?
I would stay away from the step brother. I think once IDNOD is out of the closet a world of men will open up to him. I think the problem is that he does not see a lot of possibilities in the closet. It's dark in there.
The problem is even in the *unlikely* situation that he gets into a relationship with his step brother it probably won't last. How many guys come out of the closet and marry the first guy they meet? Relationships usually fail - but family is supposed to be forever. If he gets with his step bro he is going to go through a lot of hatred and possibly end up on not so good terms with his life-time best friend.
I am not saying it's morally wrong, but I think it will be unlikely to end well.
I would stay away from the step brother. I think once IDNOD is out of the closet a world of men will open up to him. I think the problem is that he does not see a lot of possibilities in the closet. It's dark in there.
The problem is even in the *unlikely* situation that he gets into a relationship with his step brother it probably won't last. How many guys come out of the closet and marry the first guy they meet? Relationships usually fail - but family is supposed to be forever. If he gets with his step bro he is going to go through a lot of hatred and possibly end up on not so good terms with his life-time best friend.
I am not saying it's morally wrong, but I think it will be unlikely to end well.
52
I'm 24 and gay, and I believe IDNOD is telling the truth. I had a relationship with my younger (by one year) step-brother from when I was 13 to when I was 19. We managed to hide it from our parents by never telling them and only getting together after everyone had fallen asleep. It was purely physical, and there was never any romance, but I have some really fond memories of what happened between us, and I don't regret anything.
I wish IDNOD the best of luck in pursuing his step-brother also :)
I wish IDNOD the best of luck in pursuing his step-brother also :)
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