Slog

News & Arts

The Stranger Suggests

Critics' Best Bets
Music Arts & Food


Line Out

Music & the City
at Night

Monday, January 4, 2010

Rainier's Shrinking Glaciers "Endangering Roads and Communities"

Posted by on Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 10:21 AM

I wonder what percentage of the residents of the rural communities threatened by Rainier's shrinking glaciers—Rainier's melting glaciers are dumping rocks and debris into riverbeds and making floods likelier—believe that climate change/global warming is a hoax?

 

Comments (12) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
Matt from Denver 1
Hey, as long as Korea is getting record snowfall, we know it's a hoax, amirite?
Posted by Matt from Denver on January 4, 2010 at 10:28 AM
2
and what percentage are driving big ass SUVs and pickups long distances?
Posted by Change it back! Change it back! on January 4, 2010 at 10:34 AM
3
I would agree that retreating glaciers is making this problem worse, but glaciers move, and they disgorge rocks as part of that movement. Water carries the debris downstream. The slow raising of riverbeds would occur with or without global warming -- it is a fundamental geologic process.

The real issue here, and one which isn't addressed by the SeaTimes article, is that these dynamic geologic changes can hamper access to wilderness areas. The Carbon Glacier in Mt. Rainier Nat'l Park is no longer reachable because the Carbon River took out the road -- a direct effect from the glacier raising the level of the riverbed.
Posted by arts&letters on January 4, 2010 at 10:37 AM
Sargon Bighorn 4
Rural communities have more immediate concerns. We all know that. In fact we all know that MOST people will do next to nothing to make the DRASTIC changes needed to slow or hopefully stop the damage to the eco-system. Not driving is not the answer. Taking a bus alone is not the answer. There need to be more choices for the rich and the poor.

The real sad story is Americans both rural and urban don't have the choice options to really effect a positive eco outcome. We don't have fast reliable rail service to rural areas, hence rural folk must drive to get from point A to B. We don't even have it here wide spread in the city! It's not the rural mind set that's the problem or the cause of global warming. It's not what people believe or not. It's the facts on the ground that matter.

Push for choices and let people believe what the hell they want.
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on January 4, 2010 at 10:43 AM
Packeteer 5
Rural people are generally environmentalists. Remember that the ones you see on TV are carefully picked by people with an axe to grind. When journalists go to some town in the middle of nowhere to go interview "Real Americans" at a cheap diner they are looking for a specific opinion. They just neglect to mention that the people who live in the mountains and forests and actually go out hunting/fishing/camping/hiking do actually care about the environment.

Remember my fellow yuppies, we are fighting a war against ignorance, not against rural people.
Posted by Packeteer on January 4, 2010 at 10:51 AM
rob! 6
@4, the Chinese get it:

http://thin.npr.org/s.php?sId=122179548&…

China Aims To Ride High-Speed Trains Into Future

By Anthony Kuhn

Weekend Edition Sunday, January 3, 2010 · Workers are putting the finishing
touches on a French-designed, glass-and-steel train station on the fringes
of Wuhan, a major metropolis on the middle reaches of the Yangtze River in
China.

Inside, the mostly middle-class passengers line up to board the high-speed
train. It takes just three hours to cover the more than 600 miles to
Guangzhou, China's third-largest city, in the heart of the industrialized
Pearl River Delta. That's 10 hours less than the conventional train takes.

While the United States has allocated $13 billion for the construction of
high-speed rail over the next five years, China plans to spend $300 billion
in the next decade to build the world's most extensive and advanced
high-speed rail network...
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on January 4, 2010 at 11:01 AM
Theo Magyar 7
Climate denial seems to be confined to the developed world: the developing world is already suffering from drought, changing weather patterns due to climate change, and floods. And they want the world to do something about climate change - just google some of the speeches the President of the Maldives has made. I am very happy to see this article links climate change to problems in North America. I am convinced that it will take disasters right here - right in folks' backyards - to waken a desire in North Americans to reduce greenhouse gas emssions. And once they do, they will pressure governments to build high speed rail links et al....but that won't happen until political will grows.
Posted by Theo Magyar http://connexionsandcontradictions.blogspot.com/ on January 4, 2010 at 11:26 AM
Will in Seattle 8
Global warming (or rapid fluctuations in local and global weather patterns) is too big for them to think of.

All the global warming deniers see when they see those boulders is prime land to build real estate residential buildings in ... which will all be destroyed when (not if) Rainier goes.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on January 4, 2010 at 11:35 AM
Will in Seattle 9
oh, and there is a high speed passenger/freight rail train to Tibet the Chinese have already built ... we're about three decades BEHIND.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on January 4, 2010 at 11:36 AM
rob! 10
@9, that one may be more about attempting to dilute Tibetan people and culture out of existence than pure economic infrastructure.
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on January 4, 2010 at 12:00 PM
Bonefish 11
5: THANK you. I grew up as one of these "rural" people, and my entire family and I are staunch environmentalists. Yes, we had some batshit conservative neighbors, but funny thing; so do most people in the suburbs, and many people who live in the heart of large cities.

I'm not going to pretend that rural areas don't have higher doses of conservatives (shitty schools and low exposure to diversity lead to conservatism, in a nutshell), but they're not some twighlight zone where sane people never dwell.

Also, part of the problem with debating denialism is that people keep trying to cite current weather on land as evidence. The effects of climate change happen on land later, with less intensity, and in less predictable ways. The evidence of climate change is much stronger when you look at ocean phenomena. Sea temperatures have already risen more drastically than air temperatures. Sea levels have risen measurably and dramatically in recent years (several populated islands have been evacuated and submerged already; just look at the Maldives). Seawater is becoming more acidic due to increased CO2 input from the atmosphere, and we can see it killing coral by the acre. Coral didn't bleach into extinction during any of the many, many past "natural" temperature fluctuations of the earth that they've been through, as they're doing now; their dying serves as strong evidence that the current CO2 levels far surpass any natural CO2 fluctuations. Warm-water species are measurably sprawling into formerly cooler areas, and the habitat of cold-water species is measurably decreasing and shifting towards the poles.

But nobody mentions any of this evidence when climate change is brought in for debate in the political arena. It's always "melting ice caps" and "hockey stick graphs" and hurricanes and droughts, which are strong evidence, but there is enough vagueness to them that a sellout politician can make the case that these could be effects of natural warming cycles, taking advantage of most people's lack of understanding of climatology. They aren't as dramatic or cut-and-dry as what's going on in the ocean, and I wish more environmentalist policymakers would wise up and use larger portions of the arsenal of evidence that they have on their side, rather than the same old hockey-stick graph that, while valid, has been dishonestly misrepresented to the point where nobody is convinced by it anymore. Changes in land weather are real, yes, but they're (currently) subtle enough that your average denialist moron seems to be able to successfully counter it by pointing out that it still gets cold during winter. A coral holocaust, on the other hand, is much less subtle and much less easily countered by simplistic deception.
More...
Posted by Bonefish on January 4, 2010 at 12:59 PM
The Amazing Jim 12
Tell conservatives the boulders in the road are hoaxes and to ignore them.
Posted by The Amazing Jim http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/profile.php?id=100000076496291&ref=profile on January 4, 2010 at 1:57 PM

Add a comment

Advertisement
 

All contents © Index Newspapers, LLC
1535 11th Ave (Third Floor), Seattle, WA 98122
Contact Info | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Takedown Policy