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News & ArtsMonday, December 28, 2009
News Please Remain Seated
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 9:55 AM
The shoe bomber and the Nigerian nutsack bomber both attempted to detonate their explosive devices while sitting in their assigned seats on international flights. So how exactly will requiring international travelers to remain in their seats for the last hour of an international flight prevent the next in-flight, in-seat terrorist attack?
1
I don't get that part either. I think it's about not being able to get up to open the overhead compartment where you've been keeping your terrorist bomb the whole flight. Or something.
2
The profilers at Quantico tell me to watch out for the guy who orders the baked chicken instead of the sirloin tips.
The profilers at Quantico tell me to watch out for the guy who orders the baked chicken instead of the sirloin tips.
3
Someone needs to be fired for this. With the first WTC bombing under Clinton and 9/11, no one has been fired or held accountable for this kind of shit. If there was, it was not widely known. The guy who was informed by this dumbfuck's dad and didn't keep tabs on him OR report him to NSA/Interpol, etc., has to get a personal call from Obama himself, with O saying "you're fucking fired."
4
The thinking is that the latest bomber had to go to the restroom in order to prepare the syringe that then would be inserted into the PETN powder sown into his knickers. Once he got back to his seat he said he didn't feel well, pulled up a blanket to cover his movements, and *tried* to insert the syringe into the the PETN.
5
There seems to be a calculation about what exactly can be done without harming the airline's profits. They won't use the machines that see through clothes because they are either too expensive or too intrusive. How can that be? I'd rather have somebody see my junk than go down on a flaming aircraft.
6
He went to the bathroom, spent a lot of time, and mixed the chemicals there, returned to his seat and ignited it.
7
It won't. It's just the obvious response designed to make people feel safe so they continue to fly. Nutsack bomber spent 20 mins in bathroom before trying to detonate. So simple, don't let people out of their seat 1 hour before end of flight. However, since a successful bomb could end a flight at any time a better rule would be to not allow people out of seats 1 hour before bomber attempts to end flight. Its the same response logic as was made for the shoe bomber. Guy tries to bring down plane with shoe, so make everyone take off their shoes before getting on a plane. The response is less about making people safer and more about making people feel safer.
9
Dump the TSA and hire the EL Al security people, and we will not have these problems any more.
The new motto for Islam: don't call us violent or we'll murder you!
The new motto for Islam: don't call us violent or we'll murder you!
10
If they make flying as unpleasant as possible, less people will fly. If less people fly, then there will be fewer planes in the sky. If there are fewer planes, then there will be less chances for a terrorist to bring one down.
Success!
Success!
11
The question the people in charge are asking isn't "what can we do that will actually make people safer?" It's "what can we do that will make people think we're doing something, even if that means a lot of useless inconvenience for millions of people?"
14
I can't wait for the first attempted bombing with an incendiary suppository. That should liven up the check-in process.
16
I'm convinced that 50 years from now, it will be revealed that Islamist terrorism and the TSA was actually a nefarious plot by Amtrak and Cunard to destroy the airline industry and get everyone traveling by train and passenger liner again.
On the bright side, it may mean a much more civilized mode of travel.
On the bright side, it may mean a much more civilized mode of travel.
17
Dan, this has no more to do with "security" than any of the other hoops they make us jump through. It's all just a show. When was the last time you heard about them actually catching a terrorist at security?
18
It does nothing, and will only last another week or so because it's impractical (witness the poor sod on the flight to Detroit yesterday, who was detained for taking an urgent dump). Airlines are already backing away from it--BA is allowing passengers to use the toilets prior to landing, you just have to clear it with the crew. If someone is really intent on repeating the Christmas Day bomb, they likely won't wait until the last hour of the flight to do it. Duh.
19
I suppose the basic idea is that terrorists are too stupid to figure out they need to gather their explosives and head to the restroom before they are confined to their seats.
What we need are mini pigs that can sniff out poly-nitrate explosives. Dogs would work just as well, but pigs would have much more freak-out factor for muslim travelers.
What we need are mini pigs that can sniff out poly-nitrate explosives. Dogs would work just as well, but pigs would have much more freak-out factor for muslim travelers.
20
I'm not so sure that what has been reported by the media(and some of the airlines) are the actual new TSA rules. Today I have a flight from Burbank back to Seattle. Yesterday I called Alaskan Airlines and asked about the new rules. The woman I talked to talked to her supervisor. I was told that during the last hour of flight I COULD get up and stretch my legs and go to the bathroom. I was told that during the last hour of flight what I COULD NOT do was get into my luggage in the overhead nor could I get into any bags under my seat.
So the new rules seem to not be as unreasonable as the media and some airlines are portraying them.
That said, how can the flight attendants keep me from bending over and taking something out of the bags under my seat? Are they going to run over any time someone bends over?
I plan on testing this today. I will make a point of getting up and going to the bathroom during the last hour of my flight.
I'll let you know what happends. Unless of course you hear about me on the news.
So the new rules seem to not be as unreasonable as the media and some airlines are portraying them.
That said, how can the flight attendants keep me from bending over and taking something out of the bags under my seat? Are they going to run over any time someone bends over?
I plan on testing this today. I will make a point of getting up and going to the bathroom during the last hour of my flight.
I'll let you know what happends. Unless of course you hear about me on the news.
25
Furthermore, the idea of security patting down a 6 year old 5+ times over proves the terrorists won.
26
24
time flies when you're having fun!
I'm sure for you girls, however, it will seem like an eternity....
maybe you can wile the months away addressing wedding invitations
time flies when you're having fun!
I'm sure for you girls, however, it will seem like an eternity....
maybe you can wile the months away addressing wedding invitations
27
This whole thing can be taken out of consideration by installing full body X ray scans. Whatever nonsense some like to make up about 'privacy' is done away with when ones life is on the line. Their (full scans) implementation will also have the added benefit of doing away with or at least reducing to a minimum racial profiling and the lengthy (but needed) inconveniences that people experience in airports.
28
@14- Someone used a C4 buttplug in a suicide bombing/assassination attempt in Afghanistan. It worked for the suicide part, but only injured the target.
29
The only practical useful advice is to issue everyone blankets with instructions to throw them on any attempted hijacker and subdue them.
The blankets help muffle any explosions too.
Plus, then you'll be cozy.
The blankets help muffle any explosions too.
Plus, then you'll be cozy.
30
Even if there's never another attack, or attempted attack, by Islamic fanatics on a U.S. plane, the fanatics have already "won" by forcing us to endure all kinds of new restrictions and hassles while flying.
And, eventually, there is going to be another successful attack. Security measures can't stop every single Islamic fanatic who wants to kill infidels and sees martyrdom in blowing himself up.
And, eventually, there is going to be another successful attack. Security measures can't stop every single Islamic fanatic who wants to kill infidels and sees martyrdom in blowing himself up.
31
OK, I'll feed the troll...
@27, you do realize that lots and lots of materials, including plastic explosives, are transparent to X-rays, right? That's actually the whole freaking point of why X-rays are useful in the first place.
On the subject of the odds of being involved in a terrorism incident on an airplane (including unsuccessful attempts), there's this to consider. Bottom line, your odds of any given departure having a terrorism incident are about one in 10.5 million. By contrast, your odds of winning the jackpot in the Washington State lottery are about one in 7 million.
@27, you do realize that lots and lots of materials, including plastic explosives, are transparent to X-rays, right? That's actually the whole freaking point of why X-rays are useful in the first place.
On the subject of the odds of being involved in a terrorism incident on an airplane (including unsuccessful attempts), there's this to consider. Bottom line, your odds of any given departure having a terrorism incident are about one in 10.5 million. By contrast, your odds of winning the jackpot in the Washington State lottery are about one in 7 million.
33
Of course it won't prevent any future attack. All the "precautions" that were made after the fact were made for the benefit of "security theatre" and nothing more. It's so matter-of-fact these days that we put onerous regulations in effect *after* something has happened thinking that the bad guys are going to play by the rules which say that if they didn't succeed doing something bad the first time they'll immediately try to do it again tomorrow. Sometimes (most of the time actually) they'll clamp everything down immediately thinking that this "preventative" measure will do something when 99.9% of the time it won't do shít.
34
It won't, but it will distract all you sheep long enough so that you don't notice this travesty called "healthcare" they're pushing through... go back to sleep sheep..... or go shopping, rack up some more debt.
35
Dan, come on, This one is obvious.
What did the Dutch guy do as soon as he tackled the lap bomber? Call for water to put out the fire. They didn't have enough among the passengers so they required fire extinguishers from the Stewardesses.
Now imagine a terrorist bomber on fire in a huge group of people that haven't been allowed to pee for the last hour.
Problem solved. You're welcome.
What did the Dutch guy do as soon as he tackled the lap bomber? Call for water to put out the fire. They didn't have enough among the passengers so they required fire extinguishers from the Stewardesses.
Now imagine a terrorist bomber on fire in a huge group of people that haven't been allowed to pee for the last hour.
Problem solved. You're welcome.
36
Fifty-Two-Eighty, I doubt it makes the news, other than maybe locally, if TSA catches someone with potential bomb materials and detains them. That's too ho-hum to make, say, CNN Breaking News or the like. I don't know how many, if any, meant-to-be terrorists have been intercepted by TSA, other than I say Senator Lieberman on TV saying that this year there have been 12 attempts this year, counting the Northwest flight in Detroit, and that 9 were stopped. He didn't say those 12 incidents all involved airliners -- in fact, he didn't say anything about what the intended targets were. Apparently the 3 that eluded initial detection failed.
So, maybe airport screening isn't a *complete* waste.
BTW, in case you don't know, awhile back the TSA set up a blog at http://www.tsa.gov/blog/ that's good. It's run by a guy (I suppose) named "Bob," and he tries to be very responsive. It's worth a look, and was something the TSA needed to do to try to clean up it's badly tarnished image -- tarnished, of course, largely through its own sometimes-stupid actions, such as detaining a 4-year-old kid because his name matched one on the no-fly list. I mean, how dumb can we get? (That really happened, by the way.)
One thing that puzzles me that's come out in the wake of this latest attempt is why foreign authorities don't have access to the larger list which had this guy's name. If they had had such access in Amsterdam and Lagos, presumably he would have been intercepted, if not in Africa then in Europe. Also, does Britain make its database of people it's refused to grant a visa or to renew a visa available to other countries' authorities? Maybe they should, though there are many reasons a person might not get a visa that have zilch to do with terrorism.
I personally would find the whole-body scanners available today the least intrusive step up in security. I've been through something comparable in Bangkok and Singapore, at the height of the bird flu outbreak a few years ago. I flew from Bangkok to Singapore, and in Bangkok there was a scanner indicating people who had elevated temperatures; they were pulled out of line for a medical check. The rest of us went right on without breaking stride or losing even a single second. On my return flight, went through the same thing.
I assume a security scanner could be almost as convenient, though I guess it involves slowing down or stopping so the TSA folks have time to take a look.
I live outside the U.S. these days and rarely get back, but I do have to give the TSA credit the few times I've dealt with them -- they've always been very polite. Last time, when I was returning, I had some vacuum-packed sausage and cheese, and the officer laughed and told me to rush back to the check-in counter with my cheese to put in my checked bag -- because the stupid rule -- his words -- said I could have meat, but not cheese, in my carry-on! In other words, he made light of it and acted sympathetically towards me -- and he held my carry-on aside so I didn't have to mess with it. Nice guy.
More...
So, maybe airport screening isn't a *complete* waste.
BTW, in case you don't know, awhile back the TSA set up a blog at http://www.tsa.gov/blog/ that's good. It's run by a guy (I suppose) named "Bob," and he tries to be very responsive. It's worth a look, and was something the TSA needed to do to try to clean up it's badly tarnished image -- tarnished, of course, largely through its own sometimes-stupid actions, such as detaining a 4-year-old kid because his name matched one on the no-fly list. I mean, how dumb can we get? (That really happened, by the way.)
One thing that puzzles me that's come out in the wake of this latest attempt is why foreign authorities don't have access to the larger list which had this guy's name. If they had had such access in Amsterdam and Lagos, presumably he would have been intercepted, if not in Africa then in Europe. Also, does Britain make its database of people it's refused to grant a visa or to renew a visa available to other countries' authorities? Maybe they should, though there are many reasons a person might not get a visa that have zilch to do with terrorism.
I personally would find the whole-body scanners available today the least intrusive step up in security. I've been through something comparable in Bangkok and Singapore, at the height of the bird flu outbreak a few years ago. I flew from Bangkok to Singapore, and in Bangkok there was a scanner indicating people who had elevated temperatures; they were pulled out of line for a medical check. The rest of us went right on without breaking stride or losing even a single second. On my return flight, went through the same thing.
I assume a security scanner could be almost as convenient, though I guess it involves slowing down or stopping so the TSA folks have time to take a look.
I live outside the U.S. these days and rarely get back, but I do have to give the TSA credit the few times I've dealt with them -- they've always been very polite. Last time, when I was returning, I had some vacuum-packed sausage and cheese, and the officer laughed and told me to rush back to the check-in counter with my cheese to put in my checked bag -- because the stupid rule -- his words -- said I could have meat, but not cheese, in my carry-on! In other words, he made light of it and acted sympathetically towards me -- and he held my carry-on aside so I didn't have to mess with it. Nice guy.
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