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News & ArtsWednesday, December 23, 2009
History Germany Refuses to Return Queen Nefertiti to Egypt
Posted by Charles Mudede on Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Today in postcolonialism:
(BBC) German officials have ruled out returning an ancient bust of Queen Nefertiti to Egypt - saying it is too fragile to be transported.True, the Germans stole the statue from Egypt. But there is another truth: The state religion of Egypt is Islam, and so the cultural difference between modern Egypt and ancient Egypt is greater than the cultural difference between modern Germany and modern Egypt. Also, how can Islamic Egypt claim a heathen statue as a part of its heritage? Isn't Queen Nefertiti something like a "false idol." Only a secular state can honestly collect art.And they have insisted that the bust was acquired legally by the Prussian state nearly a century ago.
Egypt first requested the return of the antiquity in 1930, but successive German governments have refused.
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Charles,
Interesting. I wrote this to Dan on SLOG awhile ago regarding the Buddhas of Afghanistan destroyed by the Taliban in 2002 (?):
"Dan,
Agree. It was a cultural tragedy that those Buddhas were destroyed. I recall reading Philippe de Montebello's (then director of the MOMA) passionate plea to the Taliban several years ago to have them spare those statues to no avail.
Yes, sometimes artifacts (and I say this with some trepidation) are better off in other places than in the countries of origin. It is clear to me that the Elgin Marbles (the frieze of the Parthenon now in the British Museum) were spared damage due to acid rain on the Acropolis and are in a safer place. I just read that the 3,300 y/o bust of Nefertiti has been reinstalled in a restored Berlin Museum. I think it's better off there than in Cairo."
Charles, I agree with you but for different reasons. I admit, it's a tough call.
Interesting. I wrote this to Dan on SLOG awhile ago regarding the Buddhas of Afghanistan destroyed by the Taliban in 2002 (?):
"Dan,
Agree. It was a cultural tragedy that those Buddhas were destroyed. I recall reading Philippe de Montebello's (then director of the MOMA) passionate plea to the Taliban several years ago to have them spare those statues to no avail.
Yes, sometimes artifacts (and I say this with some trepidation) are better off in other places than in the countries of origin. It is clear to me that the Elgin Marbles (the frieze of the Parthenon now in the British Museum) were spared damage due to acid rain on the Acropolis and are in a safer place. I just read that the 3,300 y/o bust of Nefertiti has been reinstalled in a restored Berlin Museum. I think it's better off there than in Cairo."
Charles, I agree with you but for different reasons. I admit, it's a tough call.
5
They can claim it's part of its heritage because its part of their heritage. I don't live in Nova Scotia or wear a pilgrim hat or practice Judaism - but I can still appreciate all those parts of my past even tho they are not me now in this moment.
6
"Only a secular state can honestly collect art"
Are you fucking serious? This isn't some sort of joke, or the result of a sleepy copyeditor ? Remember Mudede - when you make "air quotes", you also have to type them in.
As a UW student in Berlin, I've had the opportunity to tour much of the Museuminsel - including the newly opened Neues Museum which houses the Bust of Nefertiti.
First of all - Egypt is *not* a strictly Islamist state. Religious political parties are specifically banned, so that politics may be held in the civil sphere. So what difference should it make that the country is largely Muslim? Christianity contains the same Old Testament restrictions against the worship of pagan idols...
But of course Art, much like History, only really exists through the appreciative musing of the western secular state, right? This is our prerogative of the Enlightenment. And besides, the ignorant peasants wouldn't really know what to do with all their old sculptures and musty tablets. Only through our perusal is it elevated to 'Culture.'
Wandering through the halls of the Neues Museum, you realize the Art, so meticulously collected and restored, is a catacomb. A tomb for the unsummited and forgotten - the twin epochs of man’s creative destiny. But like Lenin's corpse entombed in glass, only the shadows are on display.
Returning to the bust, it's obvious that Egypt wants Nefertiti as a symbol of nationalist self-definition. Reaching for the triumphant relics of past empires is the natural impulse (It's hardly coincidence that by the 18th cent. nearly every European monarchy adopted the title "Caesar")
But what is the Bust to us? Or more fundamentally - why has every Western imperialist power amassed vaulted museums of the conquered? Just because the "honest collection" of another's cultural patrimony makes it Art?
More...
Are you fucking serious? This isn't some sort of joke, or the result of a sleepy copyeditor ? Remember Mudede - when you make "air quotes", you also have to type them in.
As a UW student in Berlin, I've had the opportunity to tour much of the Museuminsel - including the newly opened Neues Museum which houses the Bust of Nefertiti.
First of all - Egypt is *not* a strictly Islamist state. Religious political parties are specifically banned, so that politics may be held in the civil sphere. So what difference should it make that the country is largely Muslim? Christianity contains the same Old Testament restrictions against the worship of pagan idols...
But of course Art, much like History, only really exists through the appreciative musing of the western secular state, right? This is our prerogative of the Enlightenment. And besides, the ignorant peasants wouldn't really know what to do with all their old sculptures and musty tablets. Only through our perusal is it elevated to 'Culture.'
Wandering through the halls of the Neues Museum, you realize the Art, so meticulously collected and restored, is a catacomb. A tomb for the unsummited and forgotten - the twin epochs of man’s creative destiny. But like Lenin's corpse entombed in glass, only the shadows are on display.
Returning to the bust, it's obvious that Egypt wants Nefertiti as a symbol of nationalist self-definition. Reaching for the triumphant relics of past empires is the natural impulse (It's hardly coincidence that by the 18th cent. nearly every European monarchy adopted the title "Caesar")
But what is the Bust to us? Or more fundamentally - why has every Western imperialist power amassed vaulted museums of the conquered? Just because the "honest collection" of another's cultural patrimony makes it Art?
7
Did I fall asleep and miss something? Egypt has never been under sharia law. Since the 1952 revolution all Egyptian governments have in fact been hostile to Islam as a social-political movement, and the Islamists have reciprocated in kind. Remember the Sadat assassination? This crap is just plain ignorant.
8
I can only think of two. Which one(s) am I missing?
(It's hardly coincidence that by the 18th cent. nearly every European monarchy adopted the title "Caesar")
I can only think of two. Which one(s) am I missing?
9
Nefertiti was a real person, not a deity. That makes her bust a portrait, not an idol. God, I can't believe I had to point that out.
Also the archeological evidence supports her being a Mitanni princess, not an ethnic Pharaonic Egyptian. This means she WAS a Indo-Aryan, far more so then any modern German or for that matter any existing people barring perhaps some of the Afghani tribes.
Also the archeological evidence supports her being a Mitanni princess, not an ethnic Pharaonic Egyptian. This means she WAS a Indo-Aryan, far more so then any modern German or for that matter any existing people barring perhaps some of the Afghani tribes.
10
A MESSAGE FROM CHARLES MUDEDE
There is no more apt metropolitan area -- we shall call it a "city" -- in which the crisis of Nefertiti could occur than Berlin. The city of Marx. The city of Engels. The city of Honnecker. The city of Spreewald pickles, of Currywurst, of bunkers and techno clubs in bunkers and the beautiful Turks and Trabants and other triumphant moments of Hohenzollern, Weimar, Fascism, Marxism, Euro-socialistic-democraticism .
After I name-check Diogenes and Patrick Diya Lumumba, I should be able to wrap this one up.
Oh, and another thing: you can't spell Nefertiti without "tit."
Thank you.
There is no more apt metropolitan area -- we shall call it a "city" -- in which the crisis of Nefertiti could occur than Berlin. The city of Marx. The city of Engels. The city of Honnecker. The city of Spreewald pickles, of Currywurst, of bunkers and techno clubs in bunkers and the beautiful Turks and Trabants and other triumphant moments of Hohenzollern, Weimar, Fascism, Marxism, Euro-socialistic-democraticism .
After I name-check Diogenes and Patrick Diya Lumumba, I should be able to wrap this one up.
Oh, and another thing: you can't spell Nefertiti without "tit."
Thank you.
11
you caught me - more accurately: nearly every western Monarchy legitimized their power through the trappings/symbolism of the Roman empire.
Russia (Tsar), Germany and Austria (Kaiser). More indirectly Napoleon's switch to the title emperor and the obviously Roman connotations. After Napoleon, countless other Monarchies added some derivation of Caesar or emperor in their formal title - although admittedly these could be rather long...
Russia (Tsar), Germany and Austria (Kaiser). More indirectly Napoleon's switch to the title emperor and the obviously Roman connotations. After Napoleon, countless other Monarchies added some derivation of Caesar or emperor in their formal title - although admittedly these could be rather long...
12
@10,
You forgot the obligatory picture of tits.
@11,
Ah. I forgot about Napoleon. My 18th/19th century European history is a little shaky, I must admit.
You forgot the obligatory picture of tits.
@11,
Ah. I forgot about Napoleon. My 18th/19th century European history is a little shaky, I must admit.
13
If it's stolen property, it's stolen property. What torques me is when a country demands something back which was legally sold away a century or two ago by the citizen who owned it. Excuse me, I'm sorry your country didn't value that shit back in the 17th, 18th, or 19th century and unloaded it on tourists for bargain prices and it's appreciated in value over the years, but hey, "too bad, so sad", man. The return policy at most stores is 90 days, not a couple of centuries.
14
I think it's rather pathetic that to this day the most impressive, singular signs of achievement in Egypt are those created by an extinct civilization. Or built by the soviets (Aswan dam).
Here's some more history on the bust:
http://www.nofretete-geht-auf-reisen.de/…
Here's some more history on the bust:
http://www.nofretete-geht-auf-reisen.de/…
15
wow mudede, conceit at a new high. You simplify the whole of Egypt into one category, "Islam." You reference Islam as a monolithic entity that, according to your ignorant understanding, must be the same in all countries with Muslim populations. You are relying stereotypes and prejudice. If you knew anything about Egypt you would never have made that post. But you observe from afar and feel like you can understand a culture, country, and religion from your "enlightened" Western, modern self down onto those uncivilized people. What you posted was so unbelievably ignorant. "Here's another truth" You are such a fucking douchebag. Go slip on some dog shit.
and @14, wow because you were lucky to be born in america you feel entitled all it's achievements. your lazy fucking american ass's best accompishment is probably trying to find out how many times you can jerk off in a day. but it's ok, go ahead and feel awesome because as an american, you can claim to be on the civilized part of the world. ass clown
and @14, wow because you were lucky to be born in america you feel entitled all it's achievements. your lazy fucking american ass's best accompishment is probably trying to find out how many times you can jerk off in a day. but it's ok, go ahead and feel awesome because as an american, you can claim to be on the civilized part of the world. ass clown
16
I haven't bothered to research the transactions regarding Nefertiti like some previous posters have, but to justify it because of Islam? It's true that modern Egypt has very little resemblance to the Egypt of Nefertiti, but Egyptians are very proud of their history and their nation's status as "the mother of the world."
The Germans, French and English have considered themselves custodians of a history of which they have only recently (relatively) become aware.
The Germans, French and English have considered themselves custodians of a history of which they have only recently (relatively) become aware.
17
@15, explain this: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B…
i mean, do you think i was born yesterday? really?
i mean, do you think i was born yesterday? really?
18
Anyone been to museums in Eygpt? They can't take care of the considerable treasures they already have.
20
@17, dude WTF! did you really just type in "egypt" in google news and pick the article that shows up right below the nefertiti one?!!!!!? seems like you were born yesterday, because unbeknownst to you, the jailing and arrest of this blogger has nothing to do with "insulting islam." he spoke out against mubarak's dictatorship, and when you dissent under a authoritarian gov't, then your ass is in big trouble. egypt is NOT an "islamic" state. mubarak jails anyone who speaks an ill word about him or the government, even clerics who denounce his authoritarian gov't. man, egypt has been making bellydance movies since the 40s, what are you talking about islamic state?! the truth is that you are ignorant about islam and egypt, and just got called out on it big time. you essentialized a whole country and religion, and as a "scholar" you should know better.
21
@21, you are so sensitive.
for one, i read the news on the web like anyone else. that story has been on the web for sometime and came to my mind instantly when you defended the greatness of egypt. it's a big fucking story. and really, so what if it was googled? because something is goodled does it make less valid? it's a bizarre form of snobbery.
im also from africa, and from the trips made by members of my family to that country, the impression was egypt was islamic in a way, say, that botswana is not islamic. so, are you arguing that egypt is progressive beneath the surface of mubarak's dictatorship? really, this is your point? the most progressive islamic state to my understanding is turkey and, from what i have heard, that place is pretty harsh--particularly for women. i just can't imagine how eygpt could be a be more democratic than turkey.
lastly, black africans have not had the best encounters with arab africans. if you know egypt so well, then you know my meaning.
i will end my position there.
for one, i read the news on the web like anyone else. that story has been on the web for sometime and came to my mind instantly when you defended the greatness of egypt. it's a big fucking story. and really, so what if it was googled? because something is goodled does it make less valid? it's a bizarre form of snobbery.
im also from africa, and from the trips made by members of my family to that country, the impression was egypt was islamic in a way, say, that botswana is not islamic. so, are you arguing that egypt is progressive beneath the surface of mubarak's dictatorship? really, this is your point? the most progressive islamic state to my understanding is turkey and, from what i have heard, that place is pretty harsh--particularly for women. i just can't imagine how eygpt could be a be more democratic than turkey.
lastly, black africans have not had the best encounters with arab africans. if you know egypt so well, then you know my meaning.
i will end my position there.
22
So in short, you have an axe to grind because of Arab slave raiding and someone in your family once visited Egypt and thought that it seems pretty Islamic? Trenchant fucking analysis, dumbass.
23
you use Egypt as a spectacle, to show look here is civilized Germany and then ass backward "Islamic state" Egypt, so fucking uncivilized that pharonic times look like something off of "i love the 80s". you use it to point your finger and say look, this is what we are not. you confidently state
*The state religion of Egypt is Islam, and so the cultural difference between modern Egypt and ancient Egypt is greater than the cultural difference between modern Germany and modern Egypt.*
i understand that this is blogging, but at least set bar higher than total ignoramus. dont make some enormous ignorant generalization about how the whole world should be licking the western world's "civilized" nut sack, and that the west can just come in and steal their shit because they have this magic entitlement from "democracy" to view others as troglodytes.
*The state religion of Egypt is Islam, and so the cultural difference between modern Egypt and ancient Egypt is greater than the cultural difference between modern Germany and modern Egypt.*
i understand that this is blogging, but at least set bar higher than total ignoramus. dont make some enormous ignorant generalization about how the whole world should be licking the western world's "civilized" nut sack, and that the west can just come in and steal their shit because they have this magic entitlement from "democracy" to view others as troglodytes.
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