Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, December 16, 2009
Health / Politics Required Viewing, Required Reading, Required Viewing: Olbermann Again, Kos v. Silver, Bernie Sanders
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:46 PM
De-fucking-pressing:
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Gee... maybe Howard Dean is right. And this post at DailyKos is required reading. So is—ahem—this one. Again, de-fucking-pressing. And guess what? Joe Lieberman isn't the only independent in the US Senate:
2
Funny story. A friend who works construction and is uninsured broke the middle finger on his right hand today. We're calling it the "lieberman finger."
3
I blame Obama 100% for this fiasco. Words cannot express my extreme disappointment with Obama's handling of this, and combined with his betrayal to LGBTs, his war in Afghanistan, the handling of Citibank, etc., it is likely that I will give up my 'right' to vote. What's the point if all the candidates suck? Up until this presidential election, voting has always been a exercise in selecting the lesser of two evils. This time, I thought things would be different. I won't be fooled again.
For other reasons, I have one foot 'out the door.' I was somewhat saddened to think that I have to leave this country that I love in order to live with the my husband (We're a bi-national, same-sex couple with zero immigration rights).
But Obama is making it easy for me. I won't stay where my intelligence is constantly under assault.
Obama is a liar. A pox be upon him.
For other reasons, I have one foot 'out the door.' I was somewhat saddened to think that I have to leave this country that I love in order to live with the my husband (We're a bi-national, same-sex couple with zero immigration rights).
But Obama is making it easy for me. I won't stay where my intelligence is constantly under assault.
Obama is a liar. A pox be upon him.
5
@3 Oh shut the fuck, you ignorant, politically naive tool. If you thought Obama was gonna give you the world on a silver platter, then you deserve every ounce of regret you're little ignorant ass is feeling right now. Dan Savage, et. al. don't have to worry about politically realities. He only has to worry with agreeing with people who will ALWAYS be way smarter than him when things work out. Savage, stop being a little faggot and take Poli Sci 101, you ignorant douche.
7
#6: Wonks don't spout off their opinions without understanding things like policies and facts. Obama is a wonk. Dan is a blowhard.
8
Reminder: Congress is coming up with the bill, not Obama. The House eviscerated the original bill, the Senate is now ripping the skin off theirs. Obama may be impotent on this but the Republicans and the gutless Dems are the ones to blame.
9
Seriously, Dan, thanks for your work on this. Those are good links, and I've very much appreciated your Slog posts on healthcare reform.
10
@7: Who else is providing useful reporting on this complicated issue? Can't find it. All tips welcome, as I keep trying to use the Net to put together a package of good news sources to replace the mainstream crap we have here.
At my community college (where I just finished poli sci 101, thankyouverymuch, but didn't learn a lot except maybe that there are reasons other than direct $ for some of our politicians' bad decisions) the school paper tried to write up the current state of health reform about a month ago. Confusing as all hell. No one knew what was going on, even the professors.
At my community college (where I just finished poli sci 101, thankyouverymuch, but didn't learn a lot except maybe that there are reasons other than direct $ for some of our politicians' bad decisions) the school paper tried to write up the current state of health reform about a month ago. Confusing as all hell. No one knew what was going on, even the professors.
11
Is there any reason at all the house/senate can't just break the bill down and at least pass all of the parts that nobody except the most evil republicans could oppose?
Bill #1: Ban denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Bill #2: Ban dropping people from plans for getting sick.
Bill #3: Require speedy up-front medical costs before services are rendered.
Bill #4: Mental health parity.
Bill #5: Ban racial/religious/sexual/gender discrimination in care.
Quick fixes like these and the Lily Ledbetter Act get passed in a matter of days. Why isn't congress doing this!?
Bill #1: Ban denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Bill #2: Ban dropping people from plans for getting sick.
Bill #3: Require speedy up-front medical costs before services are rendered.
Bill #4: Mental health parity.
Bill #5: Ban racial/religious/sexual/gender discrimination in care.
Quick fixes like these and the Lily Ledbetter Act get passed in a matter of days. Why isn't congress doing this!?
12
The Seattle MSM also did not cover the fact that both Sen. Cantwell and Sen Murray did not support the amendments yesterday to allow importation and reimportation of drugs. Up until now they ave both been on target on healthcare/insurance reform. But they went with Big Pharma on this one. I have written the White House, the campaign arm (Organizing for America) and Senator Cantwell and Se. Murray telling them I can no longer support the bill in its present form. Nor will I support Democrats in 2010 (or beyond) if they cave in to Lieberman and corporists. No mandates if there is no public option to control costs. Please take time to let these folks know they have lost their progressive base. A quick google will give you the e-mail addresses and forms. PLEASE DO IT!
13
I don't have health insurance. Instead of expect everyone to help me out here, I pay what I need to pay. Isn't that crazy?
Fucking losers. All of you. You want some lunch money too? Want a beer? Oh don't worry. I'll pay for it. Want me to get your next 3 Mac paymets too?
Fucking losers. All of you. You want some lunch money too? Want a beer? Oh don't worry. I'll pay for it. Want me to get your next 3 Mac paymets too?
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Write Senators Cantwell & Murray and let them know what you think.
This bill has basically become a dead hollow shell of its original self, causing nothing but destruction as it bumbles along. Everything that made it human has been stripped from it. It is... a Zombie bill that needs to be killed.
All kidding aside, it is a piece of shit.
This bill has basically become a dead hollow shell of its original self, causing nothing but destruction as it bumbles along. Everything that made it human has been stripped from it. It is... a Zombie bill that needs to be killed.
All kidding aside, it is a piece of shit.
16
Well, if you're offering Mr. Poe, I'd be crazy not to take you up on that.
I like my Filet Mignon served medium rare, Oscar-style and my champagne served at 47 degrees. You can skip the Crepes Suzette; I'm on a diet, after all.
I like my Filet Mignon served medium rare, Oscar-style and my champagne served at 47 degrees. You can skip the Crepes Suzette; I'm on a diet, after all.
17
#4 & #5 - good to see you Obama-bot are not missing a beat. Too bad you are so wrapped up in dogma to see that I was speaking from the heart.
Sorry, but I won't be drinking your Kool-Aid. The good ship Obama is headed for failure and I won't be aboard.
Have a nice voyage. Oh, I almost forgot - bite me.
Sorry, but I won't be drinking your Kool-Aid. The good ship Obama is headed for failure and I won't be aboard.
Have a nice voyage. Oh, I almost forgot - bite me.
18
So the gov't will do what it typically does... wait until everything is a shambles before actually enacting something useful.
It wasn't until grandmas were eating cat food to stay alive that they enacted social security.
It wasn't until ten year olds were working double-shifts in slaughterhouses that they enacted child labor laws.
It wasn't until the coal industry threatened to allow the entire east coast to freeze to death that they enacted union laws.
The government will wait until the private corporations (insurance/drug industries in this case) have bled millions of their "customers" dry to their very bones before they enact anything meaningful.
That's the American way!
It wasn't until grandmas were eating cat food to stay alive that they enacted social security.
It wasn't until ten year olds were working double-shifts in slaughterhouses that they enacted child labor laws.
It wasn't until the coal industry threatened to allow the entire east coast to freeze to death that they enacted union laws.
The government will wait until the private corporations (insurance/drug industries in this case) have bled millions of their "customers" dry to their very bones before they enact anything meaningful.
That's the American way!
19
Yes Ms Forka is dead (haha) on the mark. Lookit folks, this will all come crashing down in a flaming ball of unpaid health care expenses cuz we're all getting older and getting a few more aches and pains. When 5 out of every 6 Americans is heading to the ER for services and being sewn back together and wheeled onto the sidewalk after the sewing lesson is done, then Uncle Sam will figure out a solution. It's not that bad yet people, really, it's not.
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#17:I don't care if you are speaking from the heart. You can fuck off on out of here for all I care. Anyone who thinks people with a modicum of realism are "obamabots" is an idiot I don't want living in my country. There's enough ideological morons voting in this country already, what's one less? You big baby.
21
Mr Poe what about the children? Please think of the children! They need lunch money too! Well okay, it's for the bullies on the play ground...
22
Mr. Poe: be sure to let us know how that plan works out the next time you suffer a major injury, require surgery, or come down with cancer/lupus/MS/ebola. I'm sure your hospital's billing department will salute your rugged individualism as they garnish your wages and reposses your meager possessions.
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#20 So I got under your skin? Keep it up - Obamacare - I mean Blue Cross - is going to up your rate 4 times for high blood pressure. But then I'm guessing in the mental institution, your health care is probably free. Just as mine will be in Europe.
26
I'm pretty sure the pharmaceutical companies and Chicago's community business organizers (obama, rahm emanuel, david axelrod et al) have a good ol handshake deal in the works. Little reason to be de-fussyfussy-pressed. Which bus-stop on Pine is it where I's can get some Percoset?
27
That "ahem" is very nice.
That aside, take it away dear Mr. Krugman:
But what’s happening, I think, goes beyond health care; what we’re seeing is disillusionment with Obama among some of the people who were his most enthusiastic supporters. A lot of people seem shocked to find that he’s not the transformative figure of their imaginations. Can I say I told you so? If you paid attention to what he said, not how he said it, it was obvious from the beginning — and I’m talking about 2007 — that he was going to be much less aggressive about change than one could have hoped. And this has done a lot of damage: I believe he could have taken a tougher line on economic policy and the banks, and was tearing my hair out over his caution early this year. I also believe that if he had been tougher on those issues, he’d be better able to weather disappointment over his health care compromises.
So there’s a lot of bitterness out there. But please, keep your priorities straight.
By all means denounce Obama for his failed bipartisan gestures. By all means criticize the administration. But don’t take it out on the tens of millions of Americans who will have health insurance if this bill passes, but will be out of luck — and, in some cases, dead — if it doesn’t.
That aside, take it away dear Mr. Krugman:
But what’s happening, I think, goes beyond health care; what we’re seeing is disillusionment with Obama among some of the people who were his most enthusiastic supporters. A lot of people seem shocked to find that he’s not the transformative figure of their imaginations. Can I say I told you so? If you paid attention to what he said, not how he said it, it was obvious from the beginning — and I’m talking about 2007 — that he was going to be much less aggressive about change than one could have hoped. And this has done a lot of damage: I believe he could have taken a tougher line on economic policy and the banks, and was tearing my hair out over his caution early this year. I also believe that if he had been tougher on those issues, he’d be better able to weather disappointment over his health care compromises.
So there’s a lot of bitterness out there. But please, keep your priorities straight.
By all means denounce Obama for his failed bipartisan gestures. By all means criticize the administration. But don’t take it out on the tens of millions of Americans who will have health insurance if this bill passes, but will be out of luck — and, in some cases, dead — if it doesn’t.
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#25 Yeah, my value as a human being is measured in my 'political' usefulness. And the Obama health care plan is good. And he really is a "fierce advocate" for the LGBT community. And Citibank is not getting a sweetheart deals from the Obama administration and the former Citi executives who are now making policy for the government - in between trips to the bank to deposit their tax-payer funded bonuses - really care about 'recovery.'
You are right and I am wrong - everything is peachy.
Where do you come from, Stepford? Oz? Jonestown?
Maybe they need to adjust your meds.
You are right and I am wrong - everything is peachy.
Where do you come from, Stepford? Oz? Jonestown?
Maybe they need to adjust your meds.
30
Gary SFBCN: Go. Just go. Nothing keeping you here and you're not helping.
Nothing wrong with being an expat. Just don't make the rest of America seem so... well, like you.
The rest of us will stick around and try to work through things. After all, we can't ALL run to Europe or Canada every time the political winds aren't blowing in our preferred direction.
Nothing wrong with being an expat. Just don't make the rest of America seem so... well, like you.
The rest of us will stick around and try to work through things. After all, we can't ALL run to Europe or Canada every time the political winds aren't blowing in our preferred direction.
31
To repeat Krugman (who has never been a big supporter of Obama's):
"But don’t take it out on the tens of millions of Americans who will have health insurance if this bill passes, but will be out of luck — and, in some cases, dead — if it doesn’t."
If you're a progressive, it means you care about people. This bill doesn't lead to the health care system of our dreams. But it improves the lives of a lot of Americans. Let's keep our priorities straight.
"But don’t take it out on the tens of millions of Americans who will have health insurance if this bill passes, but will be out of luck — and, in some cases, dead — if it doesn’t."
If you're a progressive, it means you care about people. This bill doesn't lead to the health care system of our dreams. But it improves the lives of a lot of Americans. Let's keep our priorities straight.
33
The only glimmer of hope we have is that Obama hasn't signed the bill. Reid would do himself a world of good to just drop this bill and start a new one under reconciliation. Lieberman won't vote for anything useful, Sanders won't vote for anything useless, we've hit a stalemate. I'm glad someone who's paying attention sees this idea of a "public option" as a complete farce. There's nothing public in the bill (not for profit is not public) and it's not an option, the congress has accomplished nothing and I hope Reid grabs his senate by the neck and gets something passed in time to take care of...anything else. We've been talking about healthcare issues for way too long that are pretty cut and dry. It's not like health care is some magical arena where insurance companies are reinventing themselves daily, you get sick, you go to the doctor, you get better. That doesn't happen in America today and it needs to change. If you get sick you go broke, you go to the doctor s/he's so rushed they spend maybe 5 minutes with you before prescribing the latest advertisement on the TV box and you don't get better, you wait it out with drugs hoping that the cost to fix your problem will be cheaper in the future. The health care system we have in this country is a complete joke, save for medicare, and to say we shouldn't expand that program to 10 more years of people is just criminal. Dean said it best "those who don't use their majority lose it", Reid has an obligation to at least try budget reconciliation, and passing a bill that helps the American people, not as Lieberman would like, transfer all our wealth to insurance companies.
35
@10 Check out www.fivethirtyeight.com for a good analysis of the healthcare debate (and many other things).
36
@3
Gosh, Gary-
I'm just sick about how crummy this has all turned out for you.
And on behalf of all Americans let me say how grieved we will be to see you take your massively huge but cruelly assaulted intelligence to another country.
But you are 1000% correct, this country doesn't deserve you and you should flee to some enlightened liberal buttfuckers' paradise,
so,
please,
DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR FAT FAGGOT ASS ON THE WAY OUT.....
Gosh, Gary-
I'm just sick about how crummy this has all turned out for you.
And on behalf of all Americans let me say how grieved we will be to see you take your massively huge but cruelly assaulted intelligence to another country.
But you are 1000% correct, this country doesn't deserve you and you should flee to some enlightened liberal buttfuckers' paradise,
so,
please,
DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR FAT FAGGOT ASS ON THE WAY OUT.....
37
14
don't be cruel.
constant nonstop 24/7 whining and bitching is hard work-
taxing on the vocal cords and tear ducts.
Dan is forgoing several recuperative hours he normally would spend
curled up on the floor
in the corner
in the fetal position
sucking his thumb
and sobbing quietly
in order to bring us these updates.
don't be cruel.
constant nonstop 24/7 whining and bitching is hard work-
taxing on the vocal cords and tear ducts.
Dan is forgoing several recuperative hours he normally would spend
curled up on the floor
in the corner
in the fetal position
sucking his thumb
and sobbing quietly
in order to bring us these updates.
38
@29
Don't worry - fuckwad Gary thinks he's all enlightened now and has all the answers, but let him hang out a while in Europe, his supposed paradise. No doubt the big pussy will come back sniveling, grateful that his beloved America will take him back after the Europeans spit his dumb ass out too. Have fun, bitch!
Don't worry - fuckwad Gary thinks he's all enlightened now and has all the answers, but let him hang out a while in Europe, his supposed paradise. No doubt the big pussy will come back sniveling, grateful that his beloved America will take him back after the Europeans spit his dumb ass out too. Have fun, bitch!
39
Ah, Gary S-F-B-C-N, you are far out left field, light years farther than that pissy excuse of a books reviewer this blog has. You get my nomination for a Nebula. And don't feel bad (as if you need me to tell you that), being a jerk who relocates to Europe may also get you an Oscar.
http://www.gostak.org.uk/sfbc/SFBCNews1.…
http://www.gostak.org.uk/sfbc/SFBCNews1.…
40
I think we can all realize that JMS is a piece of shit and an ignorant one at that.
This bill is garbage. It is a massive giveaway of taxpayer mney to the insurance industry. It only makes things worse for us and much more profitable for the corporations- pretty much like everything Obama has done. I knew he was never liberal or progressive, I just didn't realize how bedded he was to the corporations. He hasn't got off his knees once for them. A mandate to buy insurance and taxpayer subsidies to the insurance companies. Continue the Afghan war using more independent contractors than soldiers? Massive money for the military industrial complex there. Huge giveaways to banks followed by unbelievable tax cuts- how many billion in tax cuts for Citi? Hell, the GOP would have been embarassed to give away this much to their masters.
This bill is garbage. It is a massive giveaway of taxpayer mney to the insurance industry. It only makes things worse for us and much more profitable for the corporations- pretty much like everything Obama has done. I knew he was never liberal or progressive, I just didn't realize how bedded he was to the corporations. He hasn't got off his knees once for them. A mandate to buy insurance and taxpayer subsidies to the insurance companies. Continue the Afghan war using more independent contractors than soldiers? Massive money for the military industrial complex there. Huge giveaways to banks followed by unbelievable tax cuts- how many billion in tax cuts for Citi? Hell, the GOP would have been embarassed to give away this much to their masters.
41
Where did all these new assholes on Slog come from? Seriously, the handles they have are about as creative as the bowl movement I had last week after some heavy drinking.
44
Conservative groups do pay some trolls to post at various blogs. Concern trolling is their specialty. "As a long time Dem, I am afraid that if we do not pass this bill, we won't be able to pass another...."
We actually caught one from Focus on the Family a few years ago. His ISP was actually from their office, and he accidentally used an old email we linked to him. Pretty funny! He was trying to pass himself off as a combat vet.
And of course some trolls are just idiots and believe their BS.Like the self employed guy driving the $500 pickup with the GOP stickers on the back.
We actually caught one from Focus on the Family a few years ago. His ISP was actually from their office, and he accidentally used an old email we linked to him. Pretty funny! He was trying to pass himself off as a combat vet.
And of course some trolls are just idiots and believe their BS.Like the self employed guy driving the $500 pickup with the GOP stickers on the back.
45
This bill boils down to one thing: Bend over and spread your legs. The only thing that's in question right now is whether they're going to use lube or not.
P.S.: Cato, I've been wondering the same thing myself.
P.S.: Cato, I've been wondering the same thing myself.
48
46 - And yet here you are, reading and posting..... Next you are going to say you think government healthcare is un-American, and the government better keep their grubby hands off you Medicare.
51
Okay, Lieberman sucks right now on healthcare, but I'm pleased that he's pissing off the folks at AFA and our buddy Peter Lababera http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Defau…
53
I'm glad a couple of people have already quoted from Paul Krugman's blog post yesterday. It's required reading on the subject IMO. This is shaping up to be a really shitty bill, no question. But is it really shitty enough to deep-six the whole process and start over? What makes anyone think things will be different next time? As Krugman points out, each time health care comes to Congress, it's a little bit weaker than the last. I'm as disgusted as anyone with the way things are shaking out, but we need to hold our fucking nose and pass this thing. We'll be in a better position to improve it if we do.
54
The naivety of the progressive democrats, of which I am, is unbelievable. The abuse that Obama gets for letting us down on health care is ridiculous. As for the Its the Senate democrats that are utterly unable to come to an agreement. The right have become, and increasingly becoming, so uniform in their ideology that they're able to force policies down our throat when they have the majority. However, because us democrats are not as strict ideologically (which is a good thing), we have the left, center, and right democrats that don't share a similar view on anything. So, just because we have a 'majority' doesn't give us the ability to take advantage of it legislatively. To blame Obama for the failings of this is preposterous.
On a separate note for the SLOG contributors. All I heard/read on this blog is complaining about what our government is NOT able to do. What I would like to see is a bit of praise for Senator Cantwell's recent activity. No, I don't work/volunteer for her.... All I've seen is a video post of Eli Sanders interviewing her on health care (a good post by the way). Not only is she active in opposing massive loop holes in the bank/economic overhaul and co-sponsoring a new climate plan (CLEAR), but now she's teaming up with Skelator...I mean McCain, to bring back the Glass-Steagall Act (which I don't really know anything about), but appears to target the ability and leverage of large commercial banks (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/17…). The woman is working over time recently and she deserves some credit.
On a separate note for the SLOG contributors. All I heard/read on this blog is complaining about what our government is NOT able to do. What I would like to see is a bit of praise for Senator Cantwell's recent activity. No, I don't work/volunteer for her.... All I've seen is a video post of Eli Sanders interviewing her on health care (a good post by the way). Not only is she active in opposing massive loop holes in the bank/economic overhaul and co-sponsoring a new climate plan (CLEAR), but now she's teaming up with Skelator...I mean McCain, to bring back the Glass-Steagall Act (which I don't really know anything about), but appears to target the ability and leverage of large commercial banks (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/17…). The woman is working over time recently and she deserves some credit.
57
Just because I'm not a shrill, shrieking hysteric doesn't mean I like the bill or offer unqualified support for Obama.
58
I am so disgusted with the so called health care reform that I am no longer going to vote. The members of congress couldn't negoiate a trip to the restroom let alone run this country. I hope Mr. Lieberman suffers from a long , painful and expensive disease.
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