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News & ArtsMonday, December 14, 2009
Health / Politics White House to Harry Reid: CAVE TO LIEBERMAN
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:52 AM
For fuck's sake:
The White House is encouraging Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to cut a deal with Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), which would mean eliminating the proposed Medicare expansion in the health reform bill, according to an official close to the negotiations. But Reid is described as so frustrated with Lieberman that he is not ready to sacrifice a key element of the health care bill, and first wants to see the Congressional Budget Office cost analysis of the Medicare buy-in. The analysis is expected early this week.
Not that the CBO's analysis will make any difference to Lieberman. He's not an honest man, you can't make a deal with him, he's just not going to vote for health care reform. The douche is out to destroy Barack Obama's presidency. He's not a fucking Democrat. He can read the poll data. Tons of Democratic voters say they're likely to sit out the 2010 midterm elections if health care reform fails. That's what Lieberman is after. Can we kick him out of the party now? Please? Can we stuff Barack Obama and every other Democratic elected official in a time machine and send them back to 2006 to endorse and work their asses off to get Ned Lamont elected?
1
So when the GOP is back in power next year who will be the new Speaker of the House and the new Senate Majority leader?
And it takes awhile to process the paperwork to become a Canadian Citizen BTW; I checked today.
And it takes awhile to process the paperwork to become a Canadian Citizen BTW; I checked today.
2
Medicare expansion actually would put off a strong public option, in that it would remove the older unhealthy risk pool from the for-profit firms, and allow old people to continue to underpay basically healthy young people and pretend it was "fair".
Meanwhile, three-quarters of American citizens still want a strong public option and know they're being ripped off by Big Pharma and Big Insurance and their employees in Congress (aka congressmen and senators).
Meanwhile, three-quarters of American citizens still want a strong public option and know they're being ripped off by Big Pharma and Big Insurance and their employees in Congress (aka congressmen and senators).
3
Don't you just love the Democrats? They cave to right wingers, but tell their own supporters to fuck off. How in the hell can you people continue voting for these losers?
5
the sausage making is very unsavory this time out.
if it dies, then extract revenge - not before. joe will flat out join the GOP, though, and there will be no shot at cloture till 2012 elections are done. on anything.
not that it would matter as the senate en toto is a piece of shit.
if it dies, then extract revenge - not before. joe will flat out join the GOP, though, and there will be no shot at cloture till 2012 elections are done. on anything.
not that it would matter as the senate en toto is a piece of shit.
7
I wish the senate democrats just put the original, public-option-containing, Heath Care Reform bill up for a vote.
Let the Repubs/Liberman filibuster it. Let those fuckers do it. The polling *for* a public option is overwhelmingly favorable. There's nothing for the democrats (particularly the liberal democrats) to lose, and a ton to gain.
Imagine the 2010 attack ads: "Your senator voted for you to be shoved into the arms of greedy and incompetent insurance companies. Aetna just threw xxx of Connecticut citizens away for being insufficiently profitable. Senator Liberman made that possible."
I fucking hate the Obama administration right now.
Let the Repubs/Liberman filibuster it. Let those fuckers do it. The polling *for* a public option is overwhelmingly favorable. There's nothing for the democrats (particularly the liberal democrats) to lose, and a ton to gain.
Imagine the 2010 attack ads: "Your senator voted for you to be shoved into the arms of greedy and incompetent insurance companies. Aetna just threw xxx of Connecticut citizens away for being insufficiently profitable. Senator Liberman made that possible."
I fucking hate the Obama administration right now.
8
@4 you can go to Canada as a visitor, right? My wife and I want to see the Winter Olympics in 2010. They will be held in Vancouver, British Columbia. I want to break a leg.
9
Snap out of it, Dan!
How many times do you have to have the Democrats shit in your mouth before you stop rimming them???
They aren't interested in being the opposition party. When they stop getting support from people that think the Democrats are going to serve their interests (Hello anyone progressive, liberal, or non right wing lunatic) then they will wither and die - or just become Republican like they aspire to do.
How many times do you have to be asked "what would it take?" to abandon the folly of supporting the Democratic Party? How many years and decades and elections have to pass before YOU wake the fuck up??
And by YOU I mean anyone that does anything to help Democrats win anything.
How many times do you have to have the Democrats shit in your mouth before you stop rimming them???
They aren't interested in being the opposition party. When they stop getting support from people that think the Democrats are going to serve their interests (Hello anyone progressive, liberal, or non right wing lunatic) then they will wither and die - or just become Republican like they aspire to do.
How many times do you have to be asked "what would it take?" to abandon the folly of supporting the Democratic Party? How many years and decades and elections have to pass before YOU wake the fuck up??
And by YOU I mean anyone that does anything to help Democrats win anything.
10
If they give in to Joe Lieberman, I'm not sure I can vote Democratic again with a clear conscience. I certainly can't vote Republican since my brain is functional. I guess I just won't vote.
11
Sorry, folks, but as Golob said, this is Obama's failure, not Lieberman's. Can you imagine Lyndon Johnson sucking up to a bunch of obstructionist assholes while trying to get the Civil Rights Act passed? Hmm, neither can I. That's how the game is played - you have to strong-arm this shit through - and the Big O just isn't very good at that.
12
So who do you think it would be most effective to call and yell at, re: "Fuck Joe Lieberman, and fuck you for putting up with his bullshit"?
13
If Obama had wanted Ned Lamont elected, he would have done something to help Ned Lamont get elected. He wanted Lieberman in power (or rather, Obama's Owners wanted Lieberman in power) so that he can do exactly what he is doing -- RUIN EVERYTHING.
14
@7 for the win. Phone every elected US senator or congressman you can. If your cell phone is 425 they have no idea where you live supposedly.
15
Johnson would have picked that lying sack of s**t up by his goddam ears and shaken him till he voted right.
16
President Obama should appoint Lieberman to the post of Ambassador to Iraq. Even if Connecticut Gov. Jodi Rell appoints a Republican, it is likely that person will be more reasonable than Joe.
17
Spineless democrats run on all sorts of grand promises, much like the abortion hating republicunts, but once elected, neither party ever does as promised.
That said, Lieberman is truly the scum of the senate. All of these assholes are bought off by big business, but it is Lieberman who needs to be humiliated, but again, Dems are spineless pussies who will not fight against evil, will not call a cock sucking flack like Lieberman what he is and will probably lose the next two elections because their core is getting pissed off that Obama has turned into a well spoken George Bush and Lieberman is a fuck up and no one has the balls to call him out.
That said, Lieberman is truly the scum of the senate. All of these assholes are bought off by big business, but it is Lieberman who needs to be humiliated, but again, Dems are spineless pussies who will not fight against evil, will not call a cock sucking flack like Lieberman what he is and will probably lose the next two elections because their core is getting pissed off that Obama has turned into a well spoken George Bush and Lieberman is a fuck up and no one has the balls to call him out.
18
So as it turns out, the lying douchebag representing the Insurance Corporations of Connecticut was actually for the Medicare buy-in before he was against it.
That's not just a policy position from 2000, but from last fucking September, as in three fucking months ago.
And Rahm Emanuel, this supposed hardcore, tough-as-nails, git-er-done legislative guru still wants to cut a deal with this douche?
This needs to be the Democratic plan of action:
1) Someone needs to take Lieberman out behind the Senate and put him out of our misery. Has no-one on the Democratic side ever heard of political hardball?
2) Rahm Emanuel is obviously even more of a wimp than Harry Reid (according to the Politico article). He's incapable of doing his fucking J-O-B (remember he's also supposed to be the one holding up the domestic gay agenda in the interests of caving to Republicans), so he needs to fucking go as well.
As it stands right now, George-fucking-Bush accomplished more on both healthcare (remember the arm-twisting over Medicare Part D?) and gay rights (yes, he's the one who signed the law allowing people with HIV to enter the country).
Yes, Obama and the Democrats are being outdone by the worst fucking President in the history of the country.
Now that's change you can believe in!
That's not just a policy position from 2000, but from last fucking September, as in three fucking months ago.
And Rahm Emanuel, this supposed hardcore, tough-as-nails, git-er-done legislative guru still wants to cut a deal with this douche?
This needs to be the Democratic plan of action:
1) Someone needs to take Lieberman out behind the Senate and put him out of our misery. Has no-one on the Democratic side ever heard of political hardball?
2) Rahm Emanuel is obviously even more of a wimp than Harry Reid (according to the Politico article). He's incapable of doing his fucking J-O-B (remember he's also supposed to be the one holding up the domestic gay agenda in the interests of caving to Republicans), so he needs to fucking go as well.
As it stands right now, George-fucking-Bush accomplished more on both healthcare (remember the arm-twisting over Medicare Part D?) and gay rights (yes, he's the one who signed the law allowing people with HIV to enter the country).
Yes, Obama and the Democrats are being outdone by the worst fucking President in the history of the country.
Now that's change you can believe in!
19
The Senate is corrupt. It's the same problem faced by Rome.
And it's going to be our downfall as well.
And it's going to be our downfall as well.
20
"Can we kick him out of the party now? Please?"
No. For one thing, he's not IN the party. For another, even when he was a Democrat, he wasn't IN the party (in any sense of formal enrollment that "we" (the rest of the party) could rescind.
Lieberman currently sits with the Senate Democratic Caucus This arrangement was once discontinued by mutual agreement, until Barack Obama urged the factions to kiss and make up - in the spirit of his promised New Kinda Politics.
In the room or not in the room, the Caucus has little influence on Lieberman ... while Lieberman has abundant motivation for revenge on his former comrades, and seems prepared to make the most of it.
Of the comment I've seen this morning, I've gotta like this one from Maura Keaney (even though her analysis is wrong and today's unfortunate situation is in no small part of her own making):
No. For one thing, he's not IN the party. For another, even when he was a Democrat, he wasn't IN the party (in any sense of formal enrollment that "we" (the rest of the party) could rescind.
Lieberman currently sits with the Senate Democratic Caucus This arrangement was once discontinued by mutual agreement, until Barack Obama urged the factions to kiss and make up - in the spirit of his promised New Kinda Politics.
In the room or not in the room, the Caucus has little influence on Lieberman ... while Lieberman has abundant motivation for revenge on his former comrades, and seems prepared to make the most of it.
Of the comment I've seen this morning, I've gotta like this one from Maura Keaney (even though her analysis is wrong and today's unfortunate situation is in no small part of her own making):
Joe Lieberman has become the Balloon Boy dad of the Senate Democratic caucus, a fame-whore so addicted to media attention that he hatches ever-more-desperate and risky schemes that sell out his "family" to earn press attention.
21
I know this has been said before, but in this instance it really doesn't matter what sort of "deal" Senate Democrats make; the two versions of the bill are so far apart they're going to have to be reconciled in-conference, and all the provisions left out of the Senate version, including the Public Option, can go back in, because frankly I don't see the House voting in favor of these provisions - or lack thereof.
And I believe you only need a simple majority to approve a conferenced bill in either house, although I'm not sure if the 60 vote super-majority is still required to close debate in the Senate, since the conferenced bill can't be amended. But even if that were the case, there are still procedural actions the Senate leadership could take to essentially call the other side's bluff, for example, I believe there are ways to force the opposition to run a continuous fillibuster action, that is, to speak non-stop, which, if the speaker fails to do at any point basically closes debate and brings the bill to an automatic vote.
So, just because it appears the Senate Democratic leadership might be "caving" in order to get the bill off the floor and into conference, there's still a very good chance most, if not all of the provisions in the House bill will end up back on the table for a vote anyway, regardless of what Lieberman or the GOP members decide.
And I believe you only need a simple majority to approve a conferenced bill in either house, although I'm not sure if the 60 vote super-majority is still required to close debate in the Senate, since the conferenced bill can't be amended. But even if that were the case, there are still procedural actions the Senate leadership could take to essentially call the other side's bluff, for example, I believe there are ways to force the opposition to run a continuous fillibuster action, that is, to speak non-stop, which, if the speaker fails to do at any point basically closes debate and brings the bill to an automatic vote.
So, just because it appears the Senate Democratic leadership might be "caving" in order to get the bill off the floor and into conference, there's still a very good chance most, if not all of the provisions in the House bill will end up back on the table for a vote anyway, regardless of what Lieberman or the GOP members decide.
22
Golob @ 7 -- When I try to imagine the 2010 attack ads, I am painfully reminded of how we got here.
Lieberman isn't up for reelection in 2010. CT Dem's will be lucky to keep Chris Dodd's seat from going Republican in 2010, and they stand a good chance of dumping Joe's seat to the R's when 2012 rolls around. Political fantasists spun themselves up and took an unrealistic shot at Lieberman in 2006. A dreamily naive public picked a dreamily naive Presidential nominee in 2008 on the basis of his (undisclosed) plan to make politics as we know it obsolete.
Now we pay the piper.
Lieberman isn't up for reelection in 2010. CT Dem's will be lucky to keep Chris Dodd's seat from going Republican in 2010, and they stand a good chance of dumping Joe's seat to the R's when 2012 rolls around. Political fantasists spun themselves up and took an unrealistic shot at Lieberman in 2006. A dreamily naive public picked a dreamily naive Presidential nominee in 2008 on the basis of his (undisclosed) plan to make politics as we know it obsolete.
Now we pay the piper.
23
@19 - oh come on, why would you call a US Senate where 10 percent of the population gets 40 Senators and the remaining 90 percent of us get only 60 Senators corrupt?
Want to change it? Split up all the western states into multiple states and watch it change.
Want to change it? Split up all the western states into multiple states and watch it change.
24
Another 'maverick' just bribe his ass more than the insurance companies he's in the tank in for and then let the obstructionist liarberman fester with the repubs, you'll see how fast we get the vote we need.
25
@23 - I'm not trying to play a game of "gotcha" but what western states equate to 90% of our population?
27
No, Dan, but we could all get off our asses and flood the Senate with demands to pass the bill like we want it, Lieberman-be-damned. You know, participate. If we don't... well, I guess we get what we deserve eh?
28
but the democrats left him with his seniority and committee positions. those are what they should take away.
29
Does anybody here understand how the Senate actually works? Obama can't just "strong-arm" Lieberman and make him vote the way we want him to.
Any comparisons to LBJ are silly. Johnson was the greatest manipulator of the Senate in modern history. Yeah, Obama and Rahm aren't as good of vote-wranglers as LBJ. Sorry, neither is anyone else alive on this planet right now. And even Johnson had 68 Democrats and a much-less unified GOP opposition to work with in the Senate in 1965/66.
The rules of the Senate are designed to be obstructionist and necessitate compromise. That's the system we live in.
Any comparisons to LBJ are silly. Johnson was the greatest manipulator of the Senate in modern history. Yeah, Obama and Rahm aren't as good of vote-wranglers as LBJ. Sorry, neither is anyone else alive on this planet right now. And even Johnson had 68 Democrats and a much-less unified GOP opposition to work with in the Senate in 1965/66.
The rules of the Senate are designed to be obstructionist and necessitate compromise. That's the system we live in.
30
I would bet money that Lieberman has no intention of voting for anything, no matter what he's offered. He's still butthurt over the primary challenge a few years ago and he's going to bring down the Democratic party for the sheer pleasure of it. Fucker. At least Obama will get what he deserves for being spineless.
31
@35 - Western states are the ones that have large areas with growing populations and could most easily split. I don't want the South to split up, cause that would help them.
Mike has a point, you can force a Senator to go along with you, but you have to be willing to go all out and stop at nothing.
Mike has a point, you can force a Senator to go along with you, but you have to be willing to go all out and stop at nothing.
32
Anyone know how the process goes when they resolve the House and Senate bills? The House bill has a public option. If the Senate bill doesn't have the public option how do they resolve that? Who chooses which parts of the 2 bills are in the final version?
33
So a democratic senate caucus of 60 out of 100 is not enough. We need to wait yet another successful election cycle to see any progressive solutions make headway. How fucking LAME is that. How likely is it that the democrats will gain, not lose, seats in 2010?
Honestly, just imagine what the republicans would do with a majority like this in the house, senate, executive branch. FTW
Honestly, just imagine what the republicans would do with a majority like this in the house, senate, executive branch. FTW
34
"Honestly, just imagine what the republicans would do with a majority like this in the house, senate, executive branch."
What massive legislative accomplishments am I missing from the very rare, brief occasions Republicans have controlled Congress and the White House?
What massive legislative accomplishments am I missing from the very rare, brief occasions Republicans have controlled Congress and the White House?
35
Meanwhile HCR is losing ground in the court of public opinion ...
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthp…
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/healthp…
37
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38
Offer his lead spot on the Homeland Security committee in exchange for a vote. You could get Bob Casey to personally perform an abortion for that prize.
Plus, just the rumor that it will be taken away will get Joe in line. Without it, he's a full-on nobody.
Plus, just the rumor that it will be taken away will get Joe in line. Without it, he's a full-on nobody.
39
If they can't come up with a resolution between the House and the Senate bills...they can't come up with a resolution, and there's no legislation. No one can force Congress to pass legislation, not even the President.
Obama's a centrist, not a crusader; Rahm's a politician, not a crusader. Did you believe all the cartoons of Obama as Superman? He's Better than Bush; that's all we can expect.
Obama's a centrist, not a crusader; Rahm's a politician, not a crusader. Did you believe all the cartoons of Obama as Superman? He's Better than Bush; that's all we can expect.
40
@34.
Are you serious? How bout the budget busting Bush tax cuts, which have cost about $2 trillion (though the teabaggers will never discuss this because all tax cuts are moral goods in their minds). How bout Medicare Part D? That stinker was so bad that they had to order (illegally but effectively) bureaucrats not to reveal its true cost AND hold the vote open for hours to twist arms for the last few votes in order to pass it!
If Obama was willing to put HALF as much pressure on Congress as the Bush Admin and as Delay did as Speaker then we would get a robust public option AND a Medicare buy-in.
Are you serious? How bout the budget busting Bush tax cuts, which have cost about $2 trillion (though the teabaggers will never discuss this because all tax cuts are moral goods in their minds). How bout Medicare Part D? That stinker was so bad that they had to order (illegally but effectively) bureaucrats not to reveal its true cost AND hold the vote open for hours to twist arms for the last few votes in order to pass it!
If Obama was willing to put HALF as much pressure on Congress as the Bush Admin and as Delay did as Speaker then we would get a robust public option AND a Medicare buy-in.
41
They can't force Lieberman to vote for anything, but they can damn well remove him from his committee positions. Let him go to the Republicans where he belongs.
42
@31 By "Western states" you must mean the West Coast states. Because you may be neglecting the fact that the other Western states are not bastions of liberalism. Most of the senators from between the Mississippi and California are Republican - and the Democrats from those states aren't exactly bleeding heart liberals.
Besides California and Washington, it's states like New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, Texas, Michigan, Virginia and such that are getting the shaft in the senate - almost all in the east, and mostly on the East Coast. I don't think that splitting up states just in the west makes sense, either geographically/demographically nor in the sense of wanting to make the senate more liberal by giving more liberal states better representation to outweigh the conservative plains/mountain states that have disproportionate representation.
Personally, I'd rather just make the Senate representative by population. That fixes the problems without requiring some arbitrary decision to split up states. Add 20 seats and give DC representation (which would probably mean one senator in this case). They can keep the 6 year terms and staggered elections and such, whatever. It still would give disproportionate representation to small states due to the smaller size, but it wouldn't be ridiculous. This would necessitate districts in the states with more than one or two seats, but who cares.
Besides California and Washington, it's states like New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, Texas, Michigan, Virginia and such that are getting the shaft in the senate - almost all in the east, and mostly on the East Coast. I don't think that splitting up states just in the west makes sense, either geographically/demographically nor in the sense of wanting to make the senate more liberal by giving more liberal states better representation to outweigh the conservative plains/mountain states that have disproportionate representation.
Personally, I'd rather just make the Senate representative by population. That fixes the problems without requiring some arbitrary decision to split up states. Add 20 seats and give DC representation (which would probably mean one senator in this case). They can keep the 6 year terms and staggered elections and such, whatever. It still would give disproportionate representation to small states due to the smaller size, but it wouldn't be ridiculous. This would necessitate districts in the states with more than one or two seats, but who cares.
44
Is there going to be any kind of turnout in 2010 and 2012? Constituents of both parties are disgusted.
45
This man seems like a tremendous douche. And the "All About Joe" thing is just tremendous. "Ask not what Joe Lieberman can do for your country, ask what your country can do for Lieberman."
What Would Lieberman Do? Fuck over the little guy, apparently.
What Would Lieberman Do? Fuck over the little guy, apparently.
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