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News & ArtsMonday, December 14, 2009
Boom Neighborhoods That Opposed the Housing Levy
Posted by Dominic Holden on Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:37 AM
This map shows which precincts in Seattle supported the low-income housing levy on the November ballot. The dark blue areas passed the levy by over 75 percent. Only the red and orange precincts rejected the levy. Overall, the measure—which raises $145 million in property taxes over seven years to build low-income housing—got 65.8 percent of the city's vote.
Anna Markee, outreach director of the Housing Development Consortium, explains that the measure held the "strongest progressive support in the 43rd District in the central core of the city and less support along the wealthy shores." That big red patch on the right of Seattle (under the Montlake cut) surrounded by blue and green areas—that's Broadmoor, a gated neighborhood near Madison Park. Broadmoor also resoundingly supported Republican Susan Hutchison. In fact, Broadmoor, which is packed with multi-million dollar homes but opposes a levy to house poor people, was the only precinct in Seattle to support Hutchison.
3
Whomever put this map together (and it would be nice if you would credit it/him/her) keeps including vast tracts of parkland, throwing off the efficacy.
If you cut out Seward Park, Discovery Park, and maybe harbor island (does anybody live there?), then the map reads pretty differently.
If you cut out Seward Park, Discovery Park, and maybe harbor island (does anybody live there?), then the map reads pretty differently.
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I think we need a high-earner income tax. Beyond just being more progressive, maybe if we bleed some of these incredibly greedy landowners dry, they'll learn some good-ol-fashioned progressive values. Seems to me once your home hits the million dollar mark, all human values go out the window.
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can you tell me where the map is at? it appears that delridge/highland park didn;t much care for it, which to be honest seems odd. (the big orange area in the middle at the bottom)
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Is it any surprise that the rich are also selfish? Or that they would support someone like Hutchison? You would think they'd be more intelligent, at least. Maybe because they have a big fence around them they think they can live without anyone else.
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@3, in the last census I believe Harbor Island recorded a population of one - a guy living on his boat.
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Haller Lake, a very unwealthy single family neighborhood, also had a very low support of the Housing Levy.
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I've heard that Broadmoor wants to secede and form it's own state, but only if they can get the rest of Seattle to pay for it.
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@10
I'm looking at a Zillow map of Haller Lake and there are multiple houses around that lake valued at more than a million dollars each. Without doing a whole spreadsheet, I'd eyeball the average in that neighborhood at well over a half-million per house, which is well above the Seattle city average and more than twice the average price of homes in the 98133 zip code generally.
I'm looking at a Zillow map of Haller Lake and there are multiple houses around that lake valued at more than a million dollars each. Without doing a whole spreadsheet, I'd eyeball the average in that neighborhood at well over a half-million per house, which is well above the Seattle city average and more than twice the average price of homes in the 98133 zip code generally.
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"That big red patch on the right of Seattle (under the Montlake cut) surrounded by blue and green areas—that's Broadmoor, a gated neighborhood near Madison Park."
It's also the Arboretum.
The big red patch out on the end of Magnolia is Discovery Park.
Why parks are even included - they obviously throw off the perception -- is not clear.
Without knowing more it is too soon to throw stones.
It's also the Arboretum.
The big red patch out on the end of Magnolia is Discovery Park.
Why parks are even included - they obviously throw off the perception -- is not clear.
Without knowing more it is too soon to throw stones.
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Re: The parks that are included (and Harbor Island) - that just means they're technically part of a different precinct. UW has the same issue.
Re: Broadmoor - I do find it hilarious that the most conservative precinct in Seattle (the only one to vote for Bush in 2000) is smack in the center of the most liberal LD (the 43rd). It makes me smile.
Re: Broadmoor - I do find it hilarious that the most conservative precinct in Seattle (the only one to vote for Bush in 2000) is smack in the center of the most liberal LD (the 43rd). It makes me smile.
17
Dominic, you shouldn't enforce stereotypes of the rich as selfish: the rich in Seattle don't just live in Broadmoor.
A quick look at Zillow shows there are twice as many million dollar homes for sale in wealthy Queen Anne (48 in all)--than there are in Broadmoor (19). Even Capitol Hill has more million dollar homes for sale (21) than Broadmoor.
Yes, stereotyping the rich is fun. It's also bigoted and hateful. There are affluent people all around Seattle, and many of them support the levy.
A quick look at Zillow shows there are twice as many million dollar homes for sale in wealthy Queen Anne (48 in all)--than there are in Broadmoor (19). Even Capitol Hill has more million dollar homes for sale (21) than Broadmoor.
Yes, stereotyping the rich is fun. It's also bigoted and hateful. There are affluent people all around Seattle, and many of them support the levy.
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The average home cost in King County is $400,000 (twice the national average).
$145 million dollars could buy 362 King County 3-bedroom homes, or 725 U.S. average homes.
In King County you could then house 362 families or 1086 single people. In the U.S, 725 familes or 2175 singles.
If you were to use the money to pay for apartments in Kent, you could rent 3-bedroom apartments at $895 a month, you could rent 13,500 apartments for one year. You could house that many families, or you could house ~39,000 single people.
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@ 12 - A few houses have value in Haller Lake. The rest look a bit ghetto. The population is fairly elderly and the schools have one if the highest subsidized lunch rates in the north end. Haller Lake is a weird area.
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@17
You realize that there are probably 50 times more units of housing on Queen Anne than there are in Broadmoor, right? So, twice as many million dollar homes on Queen Anne doesn't mean what you think it means. Likewise Capitol Hill; mixed in with and surrounding those million dollar homes -- and not separated from them by gates and guards -- are apartment buildings, low-income housing, half-way houses and mental health care facilities. This is not to say that Capitol Hill's wealthy residents don't present some of the same political and social problems as Broadmoor's, but they are, at a minimum, willing to mingle with the rest of us.
The reason Broadmoor's support of Bush and refusal to support the levy is reprehensible is because they're rich. The moral of the story is not that rich people suck -- the moral of the story is that those rich people suck. When other people fuck each other over, it may be inferred that they do so because they seek some advantage that they honestly believe they need (see: the insecurity of the middle class); when people in Broadmoor fuck people over, it may reasonably inferred that they choose to do so out of an ethical philosophy of pure greed and self-interest; the taxes they seek to avoid will certainly not limit their privilege in any significant way.
Not all rich people are bastards. Bill Gates Sr. is a pretty right guy, and I know a few others. But the high concentration of complete bastards among the very rich who can, in theory, afford to be good, is certainly notable.
You realize that there are probably 50 times more units of housing on Queen Anne than there are in Broadmoor, right? So, twice as many million dollar homes on Queen Anne doesn't mean what you think it means. Likewise Capitol Hill; mixed in with and surrounding those million dollar homes -- and not separated from them by gates and guards -- are apartment buildings, low-income housing, half-way houses and mental health care facilities. This is not to say that Capitol Hill's wealthy residents don't present some of the same political and social problems as Broadmoor's, but they are, at a minimum, willing to mingle with the rest of us.
Yes, stereotyping the rich is fun. It's also bigoted and hateful. There are affluent people all around Seattle, and many of them support the levy.
The reason Broadmoor's support of Bush and refusal to support the levy is reprehensible is because they're rich. The moral of the story is not that rich people suck -- the moral of the story is that those rich people suck. When other people fuck each other over, it may be inferred that they do so because they seek some advantage that they honestly believe they need (see: the insecurity of the middle class); when people in Broadmoor fuck people over, it may reasonably inferred that they choose to do so out of an ethical philosophy of pure greed and self-interest; the taxes they seek to avoid will certainly not limit their privilege in any significant way.
Not all rich people are bastards. Bill Gates Sr. is a pretty right guy, and I know a few others. But the high concentration of complete bastards among the very rich who can, in theory, afford to be good, is certainly notable.
23
I was going to say something derogatory about Broadmoor and how the city would be improved without it, but then I realized that its residents pay lots of property taxes yet don't have sufficient numbers to negatively influence public policy in the city or county. If we could similarly surround and dilute every other enclave of rich assholes in the state that would be ideal.
25
Rich people get and stay rich by not giving their money away. Are you people really so fiscally igornant (hehe) as to not understand that simple concept.
And you seem to presume that these rich people stumbled upon a bag full of $100s and presto they are now rich. Many of them I'm sure have worked hard so as to buy what they have, just as you've worked hard so as to buy what you have. Should I fault you for what you have? Maybe it's more than what I have and YOU'RE THE RICH BASTARD. I don't want to part with my money. It does not come easy and I don't want it to go easy. I understand others feel differently.
And you seem to presume that these rich people stumbled upon a bag full of $100s and presto they are now rich. Many of them I'm sure have worked hard so as to buy what they have, just as you've worked hard so as to buy what you have. Should I fault you for what you have? Maybe it's more than what I have and YOU'RE THE RICH BASTARD. I don't want to part with my money. It does not come easy and I don't want it to go easy. I understand others feel differently.
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@25
It is a well established principle of taxation that not only should the wealthy pay more taxes because they can afford it, but they should pay more taxes because facilitating their wealth -- protecting their holdings and sustaining the public works that make their holdings profitable -- consumes a greater share of the tax base. This idea appears in several state and federal supreme court cases that I don't care enough about you to look up but it also has the advantage of being plain to anyone using their common sense.
Short of that your argument is basically that unfettered self-interest to the complete disregard to community well-being is not only acceptable but good. Which would be fine if you were autistic, but otherwise demonstrates what can only be regarded as a willful disregard for the basic realities of a modern political economy.
It is a well established principle of taxation that not only should the wealthy pay more taxes because they can afford it, but they should pay more taxes because facilitating their wealth -- protecting their holdings and sustaining the public works that make their holdings profitable -- consumes a greater share of the tax base. This idea appears in several state and federal supreme court cases that I don't care enough about you to look up but it also has the advantage of being plain to anyone using their common sense.
Short of that your argument is basically that unfettered self-interest to the complete disregard to community well-being is not only acceptable but good. Which would be fine if you were autistic, but otherwise demonstrates what can only be regarded as a willful disregard for the basic realities of a modern political economy.
29
@25: A very large number of rich people are rich because they have good taste in parents. Kind of how lots of Americans are well off because we had the good sense to be born here. And before anyone starts foaming at the mouth about the "death tax," consider that those who inherit assets pay no capital gains taxes (which are imposed at lower rates than income taxes anyway) on any of the capital gains that accrued during the dead person's lifetime. For example, if Grandpa Sam bought Standard Oil in 1932 at $2 a share, and I inherit it today at $15,000 a share and sell it tomorrow, I don't owe any capital gains taxes at all. (That's how rich people--and their families--really stay rich.)
30
One thing I like about my dear old paw is that even though he makes about ten times as much money as me, he complains that his taxes (which he pays as a resident of California) are not high enough. His tax bill alone is more than twice my annual income. Specifically, he wishes California would levy more taxes, so as to avoid the collapse of its government.
31
I bet this map has more to do with age as it does wealth.
Compare Queen Anne to West Seattle. West Seattle is way more orange on this map, and yet:
West Seattle average family income/age: $66K/41.1 years
Queen Anne average family income/age: $79K/33.3 years
Old folks are a cheap lot, and Broadmoor is a bunch of houses surrounding a golf course. You don't live there unless you're retired.
Compare Queen Anne to West Seattle. West Seattle is way more orange on this map, and yet:
West Seattle average family income/age: $66K/41.1 years
Queen Anne average family income/age: $79K/33.3 years
Old folks are a cheap lot, and Broadmoor is a bunch of houses surrounding a golf course. You don't live there unless you're retired.
33
Magnolia, Haller Lake, Broadmore, Windermere Estates: none of these are surprises... but Beacon Hill?? WTF, BH?
That area around Beacon Ave and S. Holden, especially. Whereas, the area centered on Holly Park is clearly pro. Perhaps the red zones are reacting all kneejerk, specifically to the projects??
I would love to see this map and a map of the city's housing projects overlaid to see if any other regions nearby decided to spit venom in their poor neighbors' direction.
Broadmore isn't all rich fucks - some people are renters there, and the rates are great for the BD count.
@29 Note that grandpa can give you a one time 'gift' of stock that's tax free (until you cash it out, anyway) if he does it before he dies. I believe the limit is $100,000, of today's value.
@8 apparently 55-65% of that guy on his boat voted for housing. ;)
((There's actually substantial moorage on the south tip of harbor island: room for 100-150 boats off Klickitat Way)).
That area around Beacon Ave and S. Holden, especially. Whereas, the area centered on Holly Park is clearly pro. Perhaps the red zones are reacting all kneejerk, specifically to the projects??
I would love to see this map and a map of the city's housing projects overlaid to see if any other regions nearby decided to spit venom in their poor neighbors' direction.
Broadmore isn't all rich fucks - some people are renters there, and the rates are great for the BD count.
@29 Note that grandpa can give you a one time 'gift' of stock that's tax free (until you cash it out, anyway) if he does it before he dies. I believe the limit is $100,000, of today's value.
@8 apparently 55-65% of that guy on his boat voted for housing. ;)
((There's actually substantial moorage on the south tip of harbor island: room for 100-150 boats off Klickitat Way)).
34
Are we really arguing about "those" rich bastards and all their excess wealth? On our computers? On the internet?? In our recreational / spare time - time not spent searching for water (or a low calorie snack like a rat)???
Probably on our wifi, too, right? In our heated homes? Sipping our espresso?????
. . . I'm not sure the things that own them, own us any less.
@28: that model works 100 years ago when the rich were industrialists or even 20 years ago, when corporate founders created brick and mortar empires and employed thousands of regional citizens. What about the founders of, say, YouTube or Twitter? The 2 dozen people they employ in one HQ office consumes a greater share of the tax base?? Or widowers of rich stockbrokers? Or Lotto winners / Rich TV celebrities? Or say, Famous writers?
[Stephen King's "holdings" may consist of a 300 sq foot office, a desk, a chair, and a laptop. Inside his home he paid for (and was taxed for). Does his laptop truly consume a greater part of the tax base? His ideas? ]
It's not that I don't agree that the tax system is based on taxing rich folks more, I just argue your logic in trying to justify it as an unqualified 'common sense' in all cases.
and,
William Gate Sr is a "Pretty right guy"? The same William Gates that's a member of the boys-only College Club on First Hill, where playboy & penthouse are offered as 'coffee table books', & sexist or homophobia slurs are expected? THAT William Gates Sr? The one with his picture on the wall there?!?
*ahem*
Probably on our wifi, too, right? In our heated homes? Sipping our espresso?????
. . . I'm not sure the things that own them, own us any less.
@28: that model works 100 years ago when the rich were industrialists or even 20 years ago, when corporate founders created brick and mortar empires and employed thousands of regional citizens. What about the founders of, say, YouTube or Twitter? The 2 dozen people they employ in one HQ office consumes a greater share of the tax base?? Or widowers of rich stockbrokers? Or Lotto winners / Rich TV celebrities? Or say, Famous writers?
[Stephen King's "holdings" may consist of a 300 sq foot office, a desk, a chair, and a laptop. Inside his home he paid for (and was taxed for). Does his laptop truly consume a greater part of the tax base? His ideas? ]
It's not that I don't agree that the tax system is based on taxing rich folks more, I just argue your logic in trying to justify it as an unqualified 'common sense' in all cases.
and,
William Gate Sr is a "Pretty right guy"? The same William Gates that's a member of the boys-only College Club on First Hill, where playboy & penthouse are offered as 'coffee table books', & sexist or homophobia slurs are expected? THAT William Gates Sr? The one with his picture on the wall there?!?
*ahem*
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@34: The College Club was downtown, until they sold their building, and they're coed. Maybe you're thinking of some other club?
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@35 ah, the University Club it is. That mansion surround by hedge/gate at Boren & Madison. Proudly a private club since 1901. (206) 622-1132
Humbly beg pardons.
Humbly beg pardons.
37
And I suppose University Club can claim to be "co-ed" too. There's a Ladies Drawing Room on the South wing, it's mothballed as can be - and Ladies are forced to enter through the old servants' entrance there, next to McDonald's. Classy. And aren't allowed in the rest of the building where the secret shit happens. Like the drag show.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
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