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News & ArtsMonday, December 14, 2009
Sex Boys For Rent = Pearl Harbor for the Brothel Industry?
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:59 AM
The state of Nevada has made a change to health regulations that used to prevent men from working in Nevada's legal brothels. The Nevada State Board of Health once required regular cervical exams for all licensed prostitutes and since men don't have cervixes (cervices?), gee, men couldn't be prostitutes. At the request of a brothel owner, Bobbi Davis of the five-bed Shady Lady Ranch, Nevada's board of health has added urethral exams as alternative to cervical exams and since men do have urethras (urethrae?), gee, now men can work at Nevada's brothels. Surprisingly the brothel industry's lead lobbyist, a former Assemblies of God minister, isn't happy about the change:
Flint told regulators today that he was going on the record with concerns about the board’s agreement, so when he goes before legislators in 2011 they will know that the industry opposed male prostitution. The brother industry has previously tried to avoid any controversy. “There should be some fallout and backlash from this decision,” Flint said. “Some may feel it’s a repugnant thing to do or something that does not have the appetite of the state as a whole.”“We’ve worked hard for years to make the traditional brothel business in this state socially acceptable an something we can be proud of that most Nevadans accept,” Flint added.
Mr. Flint has two concerns: first, there's gay sex—or gay male sex. Women could not only work in Nevada's brothels but patronize them as well. So there has long been same-sex activity in Nevada's brothels. Allowing gay male sex in Nevada's brothels—or entirely gay brothels—may not serve the "appetite of the state as a whole," but it will serve the appetites of the state's gay wholes. And if Mr. Flint has a problem with that—"it's a repugnant thing to do"—Mr. Flint can go fuck himself. As for Mr. Flint's secondary concern:
Flint went on to say that he’s proud of the industry’s track record in preventing the passage of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, between prostitutes and clients. “Now we’re going to get into an areas that doesn’t enjoy the same track record that our industry has enjoyed,” he said. Flint said he could not oppose the regulation change that allows male prostitution because it can’t be legal for women but not for men. But he said today’s decision was like Pearl Harbor for the brothel industry.
I'm sorry to say that Mr. Flint has a legitimate point when he raises the safety issue. Unprotected anal sex is the most efficient mode of transmission for HIV; female-to-male transmission of HIV is more difficult—and therefore rarer—than male-to-female or male-to-male transmission. If brothels hire gay or bi men, or gay brothels open in Nevada (which seems likely), the brothel industry will have to aggressively enforce the use of condoms and be even more vigilant about testing or it could face its "Pearl Harbor," i.e. HIV infections traced back to Nevada's brothels. But a legal, regulated market—brothels with male sex workers who are tested and who can force condoms onto reluctant/whiny/selfish clients by blaming house rules—is preferable to the boys-for-rent system Nevada currently has. There are plenty of male sex workers working in Nevada, sex workers who aren't regularly tested and may have a financial incentive to forgo condoms for certain clients, an unsafe, unregulated market. Guys working in brothels, guys who could lose their jobs if they give in to a client's demand for bareback sex, are less likely to acquire or spread HIV than freelancers.
5
Most gay men don't need to go to a brothel to get sex. I imagine it would mainly be patronized by closeted men.
6
@4:
yes, but the regulators are less concerned by the prostitutes being infected by clients than the other way round.
And the one who gets fucked into the ass is more likely to get, than the one who fucks the ass.
yes, but the regulators are less concerned by the prostitutes being infected by clients than the other way round.
And the one who gets fucked into the ass is more likely to get, than the one who fucks the ass.
7
"I'm sorry to say that Mr. Flint has a legitimate point when he raises the safety issue. Unprotected anal sex is the most efficient mode of transmission for HIV; female-to-male transmission of HIV is more difficult—and therefore rarer—than male-to-female or male-to-male transmission."
Dear Lord, a pre-Christmas miracle? another rare moment of honesty (besides podcast 150) coming from mr Savage. Surely one that will be submerged in the sea of contradictions he advocates for on a daily basis.
9
I guess he's suffering under the apparent mass-delusion that AIDS just spontaneously generates from gay sex.
How hard is it to understand that AIDS is just like any other communicable disease. It's ignorance and recklessness that help it's spread, not the magical presence of gay men.
How hard is it to understand that AIDS is just like any other communicable disease. It's ignorance and recklessness that help it's spread, not the magical presence of gay men.
10
this might be kind of out there but... I would think that sex workers are pretty condom aware, and also that check-ups and knowledge of health status are probably a net plus in that field of employ.
11
7, Loveschild, car crashes kill and maim many more people than anal sex. Why do you not scream about the immorality of driving cars?
That unprotected anal sex is an efficient for HIV transmission isn't going to make gay men straight. Gay men need to take responsibility for their sexual health, and wear condoms. Just like drivers need to wear seat belts.
Oh and before the troll chimes in, yes we realize that gay men are -27% of the population, and are responsible for 357% of HIV in the universe.
That unprotected anal sex is an efficient for HIV transmission isn't going to make gay men straight. Gay men need to take responsibility for their sexual health, and wear condoms. Just like drivers need to wear seat belts.
Oh and before the troll chimes in, yes we realize that gay men are -27% of the population, and are responsible for 357% of HIV in the universe.
12
@5 - Most gay men don't, perhaps, but some might. Very shy guys, older non-sugar daddies, the unhandsome, the socially awkward. Although, at the going prices, non-rich guys would have to budget for the occasional treat -- it certainly couldn't get to be a habit.
13
@10- Oh you crazy liberal with your logic and reason. When will your realize that truthiness is more important than any facts you might bring to the debate?
14
@ 7, Dan's been nothing but consistent and honest on the relative risks of HIV transmission as rated by sex act.
Generally, it's your "side" that carries on about HIV transmission as an incarnation of God's dissatisfaction with homosexuality - all the while choosing to forget that lesbians have the LOWEST rate of HIV infection (lower than heterosexual couples). Viruses are spread by purely physical means, not metaphysical ones.
Generally, it's your "side" that carries on about HIV transmission as an incarnation of God's dissatisfaction with homosexuality - all the while choosing to forget that lesbians have the LOWEST rate of HIV infection (lower than heterosexual couples). Viruses are spread by purely physical means, not metaphysical ones.
16
umm, Rob @11: I think your numbers are a little off---it's gay men are .069% of the jellybean population when accounted for purple and turgid factors but...BUTT make up for 357% of HIV in the universe merely right now, because it is growing exponentially as all the gay buttsex is compounded by every ever loving sweaty second. mmmm, ahhhhh.
18
I agree with Mr. Flint completely. Letting men legally sell themselves will mark the downfall of Civilization As We Know It.
I'll be sitting at home wearing welding glasses, waiting for the sun to supernova.
I'll be sitting at home wearing welding glasses, waiting for the sun to supernova.
19
Wait... does Nevada's brothel industry permit or turn a blind eye to no-condom sex? And if not (and I can't see it being in their interest to do so), then what's the problem?
20
Here here! I'm also for legalizing prostitution in Las Vegas (ah, home). The Escort services don't require testing, since they aren't "technically" sex for rent. Tres dangerous.
And people are going to hire prostitutes, anyway. Might as well make it safer. And get some taxes out of it.
And people are going to hire prostitutes, anyway. Might as well make it safer. And get some taxes out of it.
21
It seems like a niche, boutique kind of thing, and it might just be lucrative enough to work; that's the entire viability issue about it, the health issues/morality are negligible at best.
22
I wonder if Dan's "rare moments of honesty" will be answered by any honesty from Loveschild? THAT will make me believe in miracles.
23
@7: If you're a 20-something black woman, your highest risk of death is HIV/AIDS. Black women in their 20s will be the leading statistic in HIV/AIDS-related deaths and a close second in infections within the next 5-10 years and the overwhelming majority of these infections come from opposite-sex pairings with men who have never had a same-sex partner. All stats from the CDC.
And Dan (and most gay commentators) have never ignored the risks to the gay community and a lot of the resources used by other communities of risk (yours) are from groups primarily run by and focused on gay white males.
And Dan (and most gay commentators) have never ignored the risks to the gay community and a lot of the resources used by other communities of risk (yours) are from groups primarily run by and focused on gay white males.
25
mr flint is a chicken little.
after all, it's not like homosexual men account for 59.9% of all new aids cases in america or anything.....
after all, it's not like homosexual men account for 59.9% of all new aids cases in america or anything.....
26
It does kinda put the lie to the widely-circulated canard that legalized prostitution represents some sort of leap forward for sexual mores. Flint's statements about the "traditional brothel industry" make it clear that the form of legalized pimping he advocates is the good old-fashioned man-renting-an-unmarried-woman kind sanctioned in the Bible.
27
@8
We don't need to. We can handpick our dick, fo' free. It's one of the benefits of the XX chromosome combo. It cancels out the period thing. Eeny-meeny-miney-mo...
We don't need to. We can handpick our dick, fo' free. It's one of the benefits of the XX chromosome combo. It cancels out the period thing. Eeny-meeny-miney-mo...
28
As a gay man I know that free sex is quite available to me, I'd just never found the whole idea of hooking up online appealing. Sure, get a few drinks in me at a bar and I'll put out in a heart beat, but at least you kind of have an idea of what you are getting, I don't like the idea of some strange guy showing up at my door for sex.
A brothel on the other hand, you know, if I ever found myself in one I could see myself paying to sleep with a really hot guy. He'd have to be pretty ridiculously hot though but if Josh Duhamel was standing there and said "For $600 we can do whatever you want for an hour", eh I would have my wallet and dick out in seconds.
A brothel on the other hand, you know, if I ever found myself in one I could see myself paying to sleep with a really hot guy. He'd have to be pretty ridiculously hot though but if Josh Duhamel was standing there and said "For $600 we can do whatever you want for an hour", eh I would have my wallet and dick out in seconds.
32
@14 Let's leave God and the Bible out of this for the moment, we're not talking about lesbians here, and if we were, you know that lesbian sexual acts also carry their own particular high incidences of sexually transmitted diseases, less than gay sex but they do nonetheless.
What is the primary homosexual sexual act?
Answer = Sodomy.
And due the
">real diseases that come about from engaging in that act, and due to the reality that most all homosexual men (if we're goin to be honest here) engage in sodomy at some point of their sexually active years, then it's not an abstract thought to conclude that male homosexual sex acts are connected to HIV transmissions among many other STDs.
It is also factual to believe that a good portion of those male sex workers in NV will be offering their 'services' to other males due to the prevalence of male patrons when compared to women, therefor engaging in sodomy. It is also understandable that some of those same men will not shying away from offering their their 'services' to smaller pool of women who will seek them, therefore increasing the rates of infections most prevalent between homosexual sex acts unto the heterosexual population.
Dan has mainly lauded the 'normalcy' of homosexual sex here, while not being as frequent in his post in honestly explainin unto his younger readers the perils of such acts in a clear and concise manner.
What is the primary homosexual sexual act?
Answer = Sodomy.
And due the
">real diseases that come about from engaging in that act, and due to the reality that most all homosexual men (if we're goin to be honest here) engage in sodomy at some point of their sexually active years, then it's not an abstract thought to conclude that male homosexual sex acts are connected to HIV transmissions among many other STDs.
It is also factual to believe that a good portion of those male sex workers in NV will be offering their 'services' to other males due to the prevalence of male patrons when compared to women, therefor engaging in sodomy. It is also understandable that some of those same men will not shying away from offering their their 'services' to smaller pool of women who will seek them, therefore increasing the rates of infections most prevalent between homosexual sex acts unto the heterosexual population.
Dan has mainly lauded the 'normalcy' of homosexual sex here, while not being as frequent in his post in honestly explainin unto his younger readers the perils of such acts in a clear and concise manner.
33
@27 & 29 I suppose women don't have stinky farts either?!?
Give me a break. You're all so beautiful and shapely that finding a man to roger you rightly is never a problem. Blech!
Give me a break. You're all so beautiful and shapely that finding a man to roger you rightly is never a problem. Blech!
34
@33
Nope. And we don't shit either. But even if we did, it would still be up to us whose dick we choose.... On the down side, we can't pee standing up so you win there.
Nope. And we don't shit either. But even if we did, it would still be up to us whose dick we choose.... On the down side, we can't pee standing up so you win there.
35
yeah, and all straight men are sooo well known for even caring about any of that, or where it ends up, before they start the gyrating motion.
in that case, the best bet is a hose or a ho's...
in that case, the best bet is a hose or a ho's...
37
"reluctant/whiny/selfish clients" OMG! Dan are you talking about GAY MEN! LOL whiny, selfish, stubborn. Oh please say it ain't so! I thought Gay men were altruistic, loving, caring, and concerned. My whole Gay world view has been destroyed.
38
#32 So we use a condom and problem's solved. If AIDS is supposed to be God's divine punishment on us homos then you'd think he'd have not designed it to be foiled by a bit of rubber...
39
@ 38 or these
http://linea.cafebabel.com/public/linea/…
http://blog.collegeclicktv.com/wp-conten…
...and I'm spent on the god stuff.
http://linea.cafebabel.com/public/linea/…
http://blog.collegeclicktv.com/wp-conten…
...and I'm spent on the god stuff.
40
The definition of sodomy: anal OR ORAL copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex. Source is Mirriam-Webster.
41
Man, LC, if you want your man to sodomize you ... play the back nine or eat you out, just ask him. Coming on here, so you can share with him at night and pretend to be disgusted, is the most mix messaged/passive way to get your needs met, girl. Just ask the dude, or demand he get down and do it. Sheesh.
'Cause you got to admit, if you didn't want it and were really disgusted by the proclivities of others, you'd be obeying your Bible and thinking of those things that are true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable--excellent or praiseworthy like your commanded to (Phil. 4:8-9).
Oh wait! Now I get it. I gotcha ya. ;)
'Cause you got to admit, if you didn't want it and were really disgusted by the proclivities of others, you'd be obeying your Bible and thinking of those things that are true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable--excellent or praiseworthy like your commanded to (Phil. 4:8-9).
Oh wait! Now I get it. I gotcha ya. ;)
43
It's about time Nevada equalized it's brothel laws. Equal opportunity sex workers!! Yippee!
Can't agree more that regulated sex work is bound to be safer than non-regulated.
the hypocrasy of that looney tune really astounds, btw.
Can't agree more that regulated sex work is bound to be safer than non-regulated.
the hypocrasy of that looney tune really astounds, btw.
44
Does anyone know if these studs are going to have their profiles up online?
and are they definitely going to be available for men and women?
or just women?
and are they definitely going to be available for men and women?
or just women?
45
@41 And I sincerely hope that you don't either, tho, sadly I believe that you do precisely what you accuse me of doing. That is coming here to 'learn' whatever risky behaviors are described here, more than described, championed in this blog by Dan himself. No Kim I love my kids too much and so does their father, to even be playing with something as risky as sodomy. Something that might end our health and lives and that might leave them as orphans.
I pray you care as much for yours ;)
I pray you care as much for yours ;)
46
@46: Explain how a blowjob within the confines of marriage might lead to end of your health and lives. You can use small words if you want.
47
I'm happy that they're allowing male sex workers to have urethral [sp?] exams [and that they're regulating another part of the sex industry], but shouldn't there be anal exams too? I thought the anal tissue [on both men and women] was the problematic part of passing HIV along, and not the male urethra. Can someone clarify on this?
48
@45 - I'd say your proclivity for posting inflammatory comments on blogs full of people who think you're full of shit is a much quicker way to end your life than butt sex.
49
27,
Don't make me laugh. There already exist plenty of men for women escort services in the world, so your point is moot. I have known plenty of women who have to settle for the less desirable guy, since they one they wanted was taken, didn't notice them, thought they were a minger, etc. Maybe your situation in Seattle is true, where if you are a halfway decent looking female, you are considered hot, just because there are so many lady mingers in Seattle.
Don't make me laugh. There already exist plenty of men for women escort services in the world, so your point is moot. I have known plenty of women who have to settle for the less desirable guy, since they one they wanted was taken, didn't notice them, thought they were a minger, etc. Maybe your situation in Seattle is true, where if you are a halfway decent looking female, you are considered hot, just because there are so many lady mingers in Seattle.
50
Bummer for you LC.
So you don't have oral sex and he's never made you come? Never blown the husband's horn, either? No wonder you think your marriage is being threatened by teh gayz. Afraid he'll dump you for someone who will do it then? He might just. No wonder your here.
And before you start clutching your pearls, there is an entire book of the Bible filled with sex. Even oral sex, which is a form of sodomy. Or maybe, you have one of those copies from the Victorian era where they tore the Song of Solomon (also Song of Songs) from their Bibles, for being to sexual? Sex isn't against the will of God, but hypocrisy and bearing false witness is. Two things of which you are guilty of here.
By the way, your denial is not fooling anyone here. You obsess here, and it's obvious to everyone else.
I'm here for the women I work with. To support my GLBTQ brothers and sisters you wish to oppress. And, to show the world that all Christians aren't judgemental individuals, with a palpable hatred towards homosexuals. Sorry, we can't say the same for you.
51
I ask you, LovesChild, what health risks are you avoiding by having 'sodomy' (which I think you equate with anal sex only, but in truth is a much broader term than that) with the father of your children, when done safely, properly, with plenty of lubrication, condoms, relaxation, time, and attention? There is risk, yes, but since you two are monogamous, the risk is minimal, and not much greater than vaginal intercourse? If disease or loss of bowel control is your only hang up to anal sex, you can use tools/toys that are small, and, when used and cleaned correctly, carry even less of any risk than Penis/Vaginal intercourse!
53
I bet Larry Craig is happy that this is going up so close to home. Not to mention all my fellow closeted Saints.
55
Interesting. I always thought prostitution by both men and women was legal in those specific counties in Nevada.
I wonder if legalized (or at least decriminalized) prostitution will ever get the traction that same-sex marriage seems to be finally getting. It should, but I doubt it ever will. A big reason why, I think, is that while it's mainly religious (and other) conservatives who are opposed to same-sex marriage, they're joined in opposed to legalized prostitution by a sizeable number of centrists and liberals, who don't feel that a woman should have the right to do what she wants with her body when it comes to having sex with it for money.
#5: "Most gay men don't need to go to a brothel to get sex." & #12: "Most gay men don't, perhaps, but some might. Very shy guys, older non-sugar daddies, the unhandsome, the socially awkward."
Ah, I wish women had the sexuality of gay men.
I wonder if legalized (or at least decriminalized) prostitution will ever get the traction that same-sex marriage seems to be finally getting. It should, but I doubt it ever will. A big reason why, I think, is that while it's mainly religious (and other) conservatives who are opposed to same-sex marriage, they're joined in opposed to legalized prostitution by a sizeable number of centrists and liberals, who don't feel that a woman should have the right to do what she wants with her body when it comes to having sex with it for money.
#5: "Most gay men don't need to go to a brothel to get sex." & #12: "Most gay men don't, perhaps, but some might. Very shy guys, older non-sugar daddies, the unhandsome, the socially awkward."
Ah, I wish women had the sexuality of gay men.
56
the main thing that i am getting from the quoted statements is that its perfectly fine and acceptible to society for women to be whores- sex objects- but the idea of men doing the same thing is degrading- which sort of pisses me off as a woman. as for the whole aids worry- as others have pointed out- the best way to prevent that is through condom use and health screening- something that is required when prostitution is decriminalized and regulated. the best way to encourage the continued spread of HIV among gays would be to encourage furtive back alley interactions by not allowing a safer alternative. additionally, i believe it was pointed out that a lot of the gay men paying for sex are the closeted ones- you know, the ones that go home and occasionally still fuck their wives. so, in response to LC's concern about protecting the Het ladies from all that gay AIDS- again, bring on the legal, REGULATED male prostitution. in fact, if prostitution by both sexes were decriminalized, STD rates would probably drop. having sex with a legal prostitute is safer than screwing the average college student- or so iv heard.
57
56 - ftw
If Loveschild's G Spot was a few inches up her butt, she'd be whistling a different tune.
If Loveschild's G Spot was a few inches up her butt, she'd be whistling a different tune.
58
8/Vince: "Can women hire men? Why not?"
27/Confluence: "We don't need to. We can handpick our dick, fo' free. It's one of the benefits of the XX chromosome combo."
30/Men-O-Pause: "Wait till the bloom is off the rose."
____________________________________________________
Women should able to legally hire men (and, of course, vice-versa) but, as Confluence pointed out, why would they? Men want to have sex, especially casual sex, with women much more than women want to have sex with men (sex is simply more important to men, in general, than it is to women) so that gives women greater sexual power. If male prostitutes have any female customers, I'm sure they're extremely rare.
To 30: the bloom does eventually fade but if a woman works at staying in good shape and she's genetically blessed with a pretty face, it can last a long time and, while it lasts, she has a lot of sexual choices. An ex-girlfriend of mine is 51 and sexier and more attractive than most women half her age. Her last boyfriend was 40 and she can get laid (and wined and dined) whenever she wants.
27/Confluence: "We don't need to. We can handpick our dick, fo' free. It's one of the benefits of the XX chromosome combo."
30/Men-O-Pause: "Wait till the bloom is off the rose."
____________________________________________________
Women should able to legally hire men (and, of course, vice-versa) but, as Confluence pointed out, why would they? Men want to have sex, especially casual sex, with women much more than women want to have sex with men (sex is simply more important to men, in general, than it is to women) so that gives women greater sexual power. If male prostitutes have any female customers, I'm sure they're extremely rare.
To 30: the bloom does eventually fade but if a woman works at staying in good shape and she's genetically blessed with a pretty face, it can last a long time and, while it lasts, she has a lot of sexual choices. An ex-girlfriend of mine is 51 and sexier and more attractive than most women half her age. Her last boyfriend was 40 and she can get laid (and wined and dined) whenever she wants.
59
As a regular Slog reader who tends to lurk, I just have to say, as a straight woman devoted to her boyfriend: Kim in Portland, I have a little girl crush on you. You totally rock.
That is all.
That is all.
61
@45 - So, LC, you and/or your husband sleep around a bunch, then? Because, you know, if you two are both monogamous, you can't get any STI's from each other that you don't already have. If you're both HIV-negative, all the sodomy (of all kinds) in the world with each other won't change that.
63
I feel sorry for LC and her children's father that they never have oral sex. Oral sex between opposite sex partners is sodomy, of course, so LC can't do it or allow it to happen in her bedroom. Nope, none of that type of foreplay is allowed. It would be so sinful... Never mind that the male licking the female's vulva prior to mating is a pretty universal behavior amongst the mammals (which makes it one of the most natural things in the world). Of course, LC probably doesn't see herself as biologically the same as any mammal.
64
@42 Why don't you drop the act Loveschild and stop pretending concerns for health have anything to do with your bigotry.
If gay sex were completely safe, would you then support it? Do you oppose people having sex with Africans or other groups with higher-than-normal rates of HIV?
By the way, do you maintain that it is possible to contract an STD from gay sex in which neither partner has an STD? And if not, does gay sex in such instances have your approval?
If gay sex were completely safe, would you then support it? Do you oppose people having sex with Africans or other groups with higher-than-normal rates of HIV?
By the way, do you maintain that it is possible to contract an STD from gay sex in which neither partner has an STD? And if not, does gay sex in such instances have your approval?
65
is anyone else thinking this also may have to do with keeping women out of the brothels as costumers? After all, women are supposed to be the oogled, not the ooglers.
66
@ 32
>>"Let's leave God and the Bible out of this for the moment"
For once. Are you willing to leave it out of the argument for good, or only when it gets in the way (i.e. if HIV is a judgement from God, why does is spare lesbians more than anyone else)?
>>"lesbian sexual acts also carry their own particular high incidences of sexually transmitted diseases, less than gay sex but they do nonetheless."
This epitomizes my earlier criticism. Rather than acknowledge that the lesbian STD rate is even lower than it is for heterosexuals, you say that they have 'less than gay sex.' The implication, of course, being that heterosexual sex is the safest of all. Not true, and while you haven't denied it you will never admit it - maybe because it flies in the face of a punishment scenario you cherish. Also: "particular high incidences of sexually transmitted diseases"? Care to name any? Of course anyone can get any std, but lesbians are lower for all of them than heteros.
@ 56
My impression was that this Flint guy opposed gay male sex at brothels because it was intrinsically revolting, not because it 'degrades' the male prostitute or client. I doubt he gives a damn about them. Double standards abound, of course, but I think this is a homophobia thing rather than a misogyny thing.
>>"Let's leave God and the Bible out of this for the moment"
For once. Are you willing to leave it out of the argument for good, or only when it gets in the way (i.e. if HIV is a judgement from God, why does is spare lesbians more than anyone else)?
>>"lesbian sexual acts also carry their own particular high incidences of sexually transmitted diseases, less than gay sex but they do nonetheless."
This epitomizes my earlier criticism. Rather than acknowledge that the lesbian STD rate is even lower than it is for heterosexuals, you say that they have 'less than gay sex.' The implication, of course, being that heterosexual sex is the safest of all. Not true, and while you haven't denied it you will never admit it - maybe because it flies in the face of a punishment scenario you cherish. Also: "particular high incidences of sexually transmitted diseases"? Care to name any? Of course anyone can get any std, but lesbians are lower for all of them than heteros.
@ 56
My impression was that this Flint guy opposed gay male sex at brothels because it was intrinsically revolting, not because it 'degrades' the male prostitute or client. I doubt he gives a damn about them. Double standards abound, of course, but I think this is a homophobia thing rather than a misogyny thing.
69
@34 - we can too pee standing up! It just takes practice, and willingness to use your hands. Just like a little boy learning to do it, it can be messy at first, but it is very possible.
70
Sodomy is such a sad, sad word, given it grossly misrepresents to the less studied the sins of Sodom, which, most likely, had little if anything to do with anal or oral sex. A notable, albeit conspiratorial explanation of the confusion can be found here.
It's the continuous insistence on erroneous interpretations (or awkward prioritization) of scripture that suggest strongly (to me) the bible is only a convenient justification for more intrinsic prejudices against gays.
It's the continuous insistence on erroneous interpretations (or awkward prioritization) of scripture that suggest strongly (to me) the bible is only a convenient justification for more intrinsic prejudices against gays.
71
I'm going to agree, Uriel.
It's also an apparent lack of reading comprehension as well. Read the rest of the places that Sodom (and it's unlucky sister is mentioned) and the reasons given for their destruction lists sins that we are all guilty of like greed, lack of justice, lack of hospitality, over consumption, etc. So, I'm inclined to believe it is indeed a convenient justification for more intrinsic prejudices against gays, but it also gives them a whipping boy to unite the troops and a second reason to raise funds. Every conservative Christian "news" and email list I'm on, concludes with an message asking me for money to fight the "homosexual agenda". Attend service, where the sermon of the day is to condemn homosexuality and attacks on the sacrament of marriage, and there is a second passing of the plate. Those have been my experiences, I'd like to think that they are the exception. Unfortunately, the RC American Bishop letter that was sent to Maine is evidence to the contrary and I've lost hope on this issue. Bullying, in the name of religion, appears to be alive and well in the US.
Damn depressing.
It's also an apparent lack of reading comprehension as well. Read the rest of the places that Sodom (and it's unlucky sister is mentioned) and the reasons given for their destruction lists sins that we are all guilty of like greed, lack of justice, lack of hospitality, over consumption, etc. So, I'm inclined to believe it is indeed a convenient justification for more intrinsic prejudices against gays, but it also gives them a whipping boy to unite the troops and a second reason to raise funds. Every conservative Christian "news" and email list I'm on, concludes with an message asking me for money to fight the "homosexual agenda". Attend service, where the sermon of the day is to condemn homosexuality and attacks on the sacrament of marriage, and there is a second passing of the plate. Those have been my experiences, I'd like to think that they are the exception. Unfortunately, the RC American Bishop letter that was sent to Maine is evidence to the contrary and I've lost hope on this issue. Bullying, in the name of religion, appears to be alive and well in the US.
Damn depressing.
72
@27: Maybe for you. Not every women in the world has appealing enough looks to pick from any guy. I am a straight woman and I have successfully dated and screwed some good-looking men- - but never one that was attractive enough/muscled enough to work as a model or male dancer. Especially since I date for personality first, and looks often fall in last place,forgotten. For casual sex ...without me having to impress anybody with my less-than-supermodel looks...shit! Let's just say if these men are hot enough, I am making a trip to Nevada.
73
Mr.Flint is probably one of those men who go looking for young boys on the street to give him a blow job in the dark. He's just pissed because he does'nt have the guts to walk into a brothel and ask for male sex. That's so often the kind of person who feels the need to distance themselves from it in public.
74
Everybody knows that "Sodomy" is 'inhospitality' and general rudeness to guests-
it's right there in the Bible!
It was quite frowned upon in the old days and was; each and every time it occurred; punished by fire from heaven.
You can read it in the Bible!
it's right there in the Bible!
It was quite frowned upon in the old days and was; each and every time it occurred; punished by fire from heaven.
You can read it in the Bible!
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