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News & ArtsThursday, December 3, 2009
Hetero / Religion Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father, There Is No Morality Without Religion, O They Will Know We Are Christians By Our..., Etc.
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Local religious leaders said they are in a state of disbelief as a prominent Norwalk minister characterized as a "man of character with a devout dedication to his faith" is incarcerated at Rikers Island in New York awaiting his hearing on rape charges. The Rev. Phillip Joubert, 48, of 21 Lexington Ave., was arrested by police from the 112th Precinct of the New York City Police Department on Nov. 24 for multiple alleged sexual assault charges, including first-degree rape and first-degree incest.
There's an incest charge because the victim is Joubert's 13-year-old daughter. Joubert's congregation is in "full support" of him, according to another news report. No word on whether the congregation is offering any support to the kid who was allegedly raped. (Thanks to Slog tipper Jim.)
2
But...but...but...he's a church goin' family man of God. They NEVER do anything like this. Yeah, right.
3
Well, apparently we now know what it takes in order for Teh Gays to be considered "fit parents" by Teh Fundies...
4
Why are they surprised? The Bible is filled with child rape, incest, prostitution, multiple wives, slavery, and a lot of other thing by religious upright figures.
Heck, it's probably half of it.
Heck, it's probably half of it.
5
So, Christians have this whole "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" self-righteous bullshit that they'll pull out for these occasions.
I wonder: if they can so easily forgive a guy who rapes his 13-year-old daughter, why can't they just assume the same for queers and leave the judgment up to their three gods?
It supports the hypothesis that their religion has nothing to do with their anti-gay bigotry; it's just a cover for it. Their bigotry is rooted in sustaining patriarchal order, not a religious text, tradition or deity.
That's why it's okay for a man to rape his 13-year-old daughter, as long as he's sorry about it. Similarly, it's okay for pastors to fuck their meth dealers, as long as they're sorry about it and as long as THEY WEREN'T "THE WOMAN" in the relationship. If they were "the woman," they can't have their ministry back.
I wonder: if they can so easily forgive a guy who rapes his 13-year-old daughter, why can't they just assume the same for queers and leave the judgment up to their three gods?
It supports the hypothesis that their religion has nothing to do with their anti-gay bigotry; it's just a cover for it. Their bigotry is rooted in sustaining patriarchal order, not a religious text, tradition or deity.
That's why it's okay for a man to rape his 13-year-old daughter, as long as he's sorry about it. Similarly, it's okay for pastors to fuck their meth dealers, as long as they're sorry about it and as long as THEY WEREN'T "THE WOMAN" in the relationship. If they were "the woman," they can't have their ministry back.
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Fittingly, New York based totally awesome band Alice Donut covered this topic long ago (with some help for Jack Chick): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=092DUlx2h…
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@9- S/he may have been alluding to the story of Lot and his daughters, in which he gets drunk and does the secks with them and then they have chillrens.
Bible Believing Christians(tm) will tell you that God obviously disapproved because those children conceived from incestuous union were then punished.
Frankly the whole story of Lot and Sodom and all is just another sign that the Old Testament God is basically an avatar for the authors' abusive father figures.
Bible Believing Christians(tm) will tell you that God obviously disapproved because those children conceived from incestuous union were then punished.
Frankly the whole story of Lot and Sodom and all is just another sign that the Old Testament God is basically an avatar for the authors' abusive father figures.
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@5-
You've hit the key: as long as you're "resisting the temptation", with a "sincere repentance" for the sin when you fall to said temptation, you're okay. This applies to queers, too, in fact. BUT YOU MUST BE SINCERELY RESISTING THE TEMPTATION. It's never about the sin, as we're all sinners, but about whether you know you've sinned and repent properly.
We out and proud queers have no such humble heart before god- we're just "given over to sin", and therefore are reprobate and evil, denying god's plan of salvation for us. This is because we quit believing the BS that it's a choice, and we're 'choosing' to sin. They honestly believe that attraction to the same sex is a choice we can JUST SAY NO to.
This guy could fuck his daughter silly, but as long as he's sorry before god and congregation, he'll probably be fine. But woe to him if he says "I'm just a daughter-fucker- it's my nature and I can't help it". Then come the fire, damnation and ex-communication.
You've hit the key: as long as you're "resisting the temptation", with a "sincere repentance" for the sin when you fall to said temptation, you're okay. This applies to queers, too, in fact. BUT YOU MUST BE SINCERELY RESISTING THE TEMPTATION. It's never about the sin, as we're all sinners, but about whether you know you've sinned and repent properly.
We out and proud queers have no such humble heart before god- we're just "given over to sin", and therefore are reprobate and evil, denying god's plan of salvation for us. This is because we quit believing the BS that it's a choice, and we're 'choosing' to sin. They honestly believe that attraction to the same sex is a choice we can JUST SAY NO to.
This guy could fuck his daughter silly, but as long as he's sorry before god and congregation, he'll probably be fine. But woe to him if he says "I'm just a daughter-fucker- it's my nature and I can't help it". Then come the fire, damnation and ex-communication.
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His daughter probably seduced him. He was doing her a favor and this will make their relationship stronger.
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@9,
Sarcasm
Although the bible does sort of condone incest. Noah's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him and the rest of the story is sorta glossed over (somewhere in Genesis, I forget exactly where).
@10 alluded to Lot and his wife and incest... I don't recall that story as much, but it wouldn't surprise me if some sick, sexual, christian incest fantasy were played out in that bible parable as well.
Sarcasm
Although the bible does sort of condone incest. Noah's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him and the rest of the story is sorta glossed over (somewhere in Genesis, I forget exactly where).
@10 alluded to Lot and his wife and incest... I don't recall that story as much, but it wouldn't surprise me if some sick, sexual, christian incest fantasy were played out in that bible parable as well.
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@16
It wasn't Noah. He just had the arc (he got drunk and his son was all, "Hey, brothers, check it out! Dad passed out nude again", and the brothers covered Dad up). Lot was the one who's daughters got him drunk so they could sleep with him and have babies.
It wasn't Noah. He just had the arc (he got drunk and his son was all, "Hey, brothers, check it out! Dad passed out nude again", and the brothers covered Dad up). Lot was the one who's daughters got him drunk so they could sleep with him and have babies.
18
Oh, Dan. Every right-thinking* Christian** knows that when it comes to this sort of thing, it's much more important to support the accused than to "think of the children!" Just ask the Roman Catholic Church.
*batshit crazy
**fundamentalist asshole
*batshit crazy
**fundamentalist asshole
20
While you're trying to find Biblical incest stories, don't forget that the Intelligent Designer apparently made exactly one man and exactly one woman and told them to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
If God weren't in favor of incest, where did Adam and Eve's grandchildren come from?
If God weren't in favor of incest, where did Adam and Eve's grandchildren come from?
21
Calm down everyone. This is ALLEGED rape. He hasn't been convicted yet. Remember the whole innocent until proven guilty unless we think our president is Kenyan thing? Let's let the law take it's course. Try him in court and if he's found guilty send him to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison to be repeatedly raped by large men named Bubba for the rest of his hopefully long and miserable life.
As for his parishioners, they're also likely thinking innocent until proven guilty and will hopefully withdraw their support from him if he's convicted. If they don't . . . well . . . burn the fucking church down. Maybe with them in it.
As for his parishioners, they're also likely thinking innocent until proven guilty and will hopefully withdraw their support from him if he's convicted. If they don't . . . well . . . burn the fucking church down. Maybe with them in it.
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The whole "state of disbelief", "full support" language seems to be standard boilerplate for churches who have a prominent member incarcerated for some kind of sex crime against a child, and I have no idea what purpose it could possibly serve. I don't believe for a second that every single person in that church (particularly parents of young children) is all happy-go-lucky upon learning that child rape had occurred within their congregation.
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Geez, I've known my pastor for 17 years. If he raped a child (especially his OWN child), there is no way I would support him. I'd be horrified and shocked and disgusted and incredibly sad, but who the hell says they're in "full support" of someone like this?
That being said, I do know a couple of people who have been falsely accused of rape and/or molestation, so I suppose that if it's someone you trust, it is hard to believe it of them, and it could be wrong. But you have to take the child's side, at least to start, as you investigate the accusation.
That being said, I do know a couple of people who have been falsely accused of rape and/or molestation, so I suppose that if it's someone you trust, it is hard to believe it of them, and it could be wrong. But you have to take the child's side, at least to start, as you investigate the accusation.
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