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News & ArtsTuesday, December 1, 2009
Homo / Religion Who's Behind Uganda's Proposed "Kill the Gays" Law?
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:14 AM
The man pushing a law in Uganda—which is likely to pass—that would result in the execution of Ugandan gays and lesbians is deeply involved with the American evangelical movement, American social conservatives, and just so happens to be one of Saddleback pastor Rick Warren's BFFs...
1
Wow. Ok, anyone know the best venue to pressure President Obama to take a position on this issue? DailyKos? MoveOn?
2
Hold on, let me pop some popcorn for this one, Dan. And here's a scorecard for those of you playing at home. Feel free to use it in other threads:
Gay Slogpost Scorecard
1 Point
__ Hillary Clinton "would have stood up for us"
__ Loveschild pre-emptively addressed
__ "Fierce Advocate" mentioned sarcastically
__ HIV/AIDS statistics
__ DADT/DOMA mentioned in relevant post
__ Ref 71 / Prop 8 / Question 1 mentioned in relevant post
2 Points
__ Loveschild blames white people
__ White people blame Loveschild
__ Obama connected with topic of post
__ Anonymous comment mentioning "53%"
__ Anonymous comment twisting Dan's comments (ex. "we're whining")
__ "Don't argue with Loveschild" / "Loveschild isn't real"
3 Points
__ Blame Obama
__ Blame religion
__ Blame Dan
__ Lonnie Lopez / ecce homo / Mr. Poe cameo
__ Loveschild calls Rob in Baltimore Racist
__ "Fierce Advocate" used obliviously by supporter
4 Points (x2 if all checked off)
__ Loveschild attacks Dan's family
__ Loveschild attacks colonialism
__ Loveschild attacks Kim
__ Loveschild attacks Dan
__ Loveschild attacks dead person
__ Loveschild defends Obama
__ Loveschild defends homophobia
__ Loveschild makes racist comment
5 Points
__ Godwin's Law
__ Poe's Law
10 Points
__ Loveschild agrees with Dan
4
Terry Gross recently interviewed a reporter who's investigated the spectacularly creepy Christian cabal "The Family," and he talks at length about the connections between the Ugandan legislation and the American evangelical supervillains who run The Family. It's fascinating and chilling stuff, recommended listening for anyone who's following this story.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story…
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story…
8
@5:
Only when there are boobs involved.
@6:
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. Could you elaborate, Baconcat?
And seriously, IF the U.S. provides any sort of foreign aid to Uganda and this law goes into effect, that aid should be withdrawn forthwith. AND U.N. sanctions imposed. And a trade embargo - and anything else we can think of to bring pressure to bear on the Ugandan government.
This is just sick and wrong on so many levels, I don't know how these so-called "Christians" can even defend it.
Only when there are boobs involved.
@6:
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. Could you elaborate, Baconcat?
And seriously, IF the U.S. provides any sort of foreign aid to Uganda and this law goes into effect, that aid should be withdrawn forthwith. AND U.N. sanctions imposed. And a trade embargo - and anything else we can think of to bring pressure to bear on the Ugandan government.
This is just sick and wrong on so many levels, I don't know how these so-called "Christians" can even defend it.
10
Poe's Law basically means that unless you're really REALLY obviously making a joke or unless you use a ;), people can and will take any religious argument you make seriously, no matter how outlandish it is.
Examples: Landover Baptist, Christwire, Ms. Betty Bowers (America's Best Christian(tm)) and so on and so forth. People still take them seriously, so Poe's Law applies.
@9: I can only handle one engagement at a time, sorry :(
Examples: Landover Baptist, Christwire, Ms. Betty Bowers (America's Best Christian(tm)) and so on and so forth. People still take them seriously, so Poe's Law applies.
@9: I can only handle one engagement at a time, sorry :(
11
Absolutely hateful. This is completely indefensible. Rick Warren is a coward. To stand silent in the face of such evil, is to promote it.
And, I'm so ashamed, so very ashamed.
And, I'm so ashamed, so very ashamed.
15
You are very creative, Baconcat. I enjoy your sense of humor. I don't think I'll get you any points, because there is no purpose in engagement. She/he/it is convinced that I'm a closet atheist, and I'm convinced she/he/it is presently entrenched in her/his/its views and has a very black heart that someday will reap what it has sowed here. Simply put, I pity her/him/it.
16
here's another article on warren's connection to uganda.
http://maxblumenthal.com/2009/01/rick-wa…
on a semi-unrelated note: baconcat you are my new hero. i will use your scorecard on every post of dan's from here on out LOL
http://maxblumenthal.com/2009/01/rick-wa…
on a semi-unrelated note: baconcat you are my new hero. i will use your scorecard on every post of dan's from here on out LOL
17
Uganda has been at the forefront for all manner of murder. They will need an underground railroad for this one. Christian murder is consistent with Islamic murder in that they violate the very religion these people are so fanatical about. That American's should be involved is disgusting and requires sanctions.
18
@2,3,7,10:
Nice to see that besides displaying the usual supercilious attitude that you parade here you have now added paranoia to your repertoire.
As for me dear Bacon unlike many on your side I have no interest in meddling in the affairs of sovereign self ruled nations, unless my fellow Americans on your side of the fence take an active role in attacking them.
I will not be distracted from the attempts at silencing being done here in my country in NJ, NY and as you have inadvertently commented DC.
To those few pro-traditional family folks that frequent this blog, i advise you to take notice and don't be distracted, they don't rest and while you might think that ME might have brought a warning to them that is not the case. Help in whatever way you can in spreading the word in DC because time is running out there, also there's a possible vote in NY today so take note and if you're in the district or any of the two states in their target now please become active. These people are not resting for the holidays and neither should we.
Nice to see that besides displaying the usual supercilious attitude that you parade here you have now added paranoia to your repertoire.
As for me dear Bacon unlike many on your side I have no interest in meddling in the affairs of sovereign self ruled nations, unless my fellow Americans on your side of the fence take an active role in attacking them.
I will not be distracted from the attempts at silencing being done here in my country in NJ, NY and as you have inadvertently commented DC.
To those few pro-traditional family folks that frequent this blog, i advise you to take notice and don't be distracted, they don't rest and while you might think that ME might have brought a warning to them that is not the case. Help in whatever way you can in spreading the word in DC because time is running out there, also there's a possible vote in NY today so take note and if you're in the district or any of the two states in their target now please become active. These people are not resting for the holidays and neither should we.
19
The Bible does not require you to kill all sinners. The old testament prescribes execution for certain sins and the new testament arguably nullifies those older laws. Homosexuality is not a sin that has execution prescribed as a remedy.
Women who are raped within city limits are to be executed for not screaming loud enough to be rescued. Outside of city limits the rapist must simply pay her father for the lack of a bride price paid to her father now that she is ineligible for marriage (she is not longer a virgin due to the rape and cannot be married). Speaking of not being able to marry when you have been raped the penalty for doing so would be death as outlined in Deuteronomy 22. The men of the city are to stone a woman to death if there is circumstantial evidence of a lack of virginity, proof is not required. Thankfully in the infinite wisdom of the authors of the bible they saw how a woman could be potentially raped due to no fault of her own and not be eligible to be married. In the best interests of keeping raped women engaged in society they required rapists to marry their victims and treat them fairly as they would any other wife. How generous of them.
Back to the original topic. Homosexuality is not punishable by death and these lawmakers have it all wrong. They need to be killing heterosexual women, not homosexual men. The world needs more men as women are weak and if we kill off men just because they fall into sin then how would Ugandans be able to afford their tithes to the church?
Women who are raped within city limits are to be executed for not screaming loud enough to be rescued. Outside of city limits the rapist must simply pay her father for the lack of a bride price paid to her father now that she is ineligible for marriage (she is not longer a virgin due to the rape and cannot be married). Speaking of not being able to marry when you have been raped the penalty for doing so would be death as outlined in Deuteronomy 22. The men of the city are to stone a woman to death if there is circumstantial evidence of a lack of virginity, proof is not required. Thankfully in the infinite wisdom of the authors of the bible they saw how a woman could be potentially raped due to no fault of her own and not be eligible to be married. In the best interests of keeping raped women engaged in society they required rapists to marry their victims and treat them fairly as they would any other wife. How generous of them.
Back to the original topic. Homosexuality is not punishable by death and these lawmakers have it all wrong. They need to be killing heterosexual women, not homosexual men. The world needs more men as women are weak and if we kill off men just because they fall into sin then how would Ugandans be able to afford their tithes to the church?
20
@18: 5 points!
Thanks, Loveschild :)
Keep meddling in NY and NJ, too. Hypocrisy is a shackle you wear so beautifully.
Thanks, Loveschild :)
Keep meddling in NY and NJ, too. Hypocrisy is a shackle you wear so beautifully.
21
@19 This was my attempt at Poe's law.
I think you could plausibly see an American Christian saying those exact words. 5 points at least but I forgot to blame Dan and other homosexuals for causing this whole controversy in the first place, damn I missed some easy points there.
I think you could plausibly see an American Christian saying those exact words. 5 points at least but I forgot to blame Dan and other homosexuals for causing this whole controversy in the first place, damn I missed some easy points there.
23
Loveschild's claim that he/she/it won't "meddle" in the affairs of sovereign nations sounds a lot like Rick Warren's claim that opposing Uganda's criminalization of homosexuality would be “interfering in the political process of other nations.”
Sure. As long as they're killing homosexuals Loveschild and Rick Warren don't see a problem. Hey Loveschild, I love how you spend so much time beating other people with your Bible that you completely forget that "Thou shalt not kill" part. And stop complaining about the supercilious attitudes of others, unless you're willing to get serious yourself.
Sure. As long as they're killing homosexuals Loveschild and Rick Warren don't see a problem. Hey Loveschild, I love how you spend so much time beating other people with your Bible that you completely forget that "Thou shalt not kill" part. And stop complaining about the supercilious attitudes of others, unless you're willing to get serious yourself.
24
Since when did LC claim to be married? I always thought his/her manufactured persona was that of a homophobic Christian multiple-times unwed baby-mama?
That's what happens when tag-team trolls can't keep their character background stories straight...
That's what happens when tag-team trolls can't keep their character background stories straight...
25
@Loveschild
Cannot even give a simple statement on white Christian infkuence in the genocide of black gays.
The sad part about it is, I am not surprised. At. all.
Cannot even give a simple statement on white Christian infkuence in the genocide of black gays.
The sad part about it is, I am not surprised. At. all.
27
18 is a coward.
"@70 JunieGirl, you can write this in stone and you can hound me all you want if I don't do it. The next time the Westboro crazies are featured here i will condemn them just as much as any other sane person because i believe that what they do goes against all Christian tenents and they give a bad name to Christianity. Let me assure you that no true preacher that preaches the gospel of Christ would say the stuff that they say because God does not hate, God is love.
Posted by Loveschild on November 10, 2009 at 7:50 PM "
It seems hating is allowed when it's a sovereign nation, and espoused by an evangelical Christian leader of that nation. Nice way to keep ones conscience clean under "Thou shall not kill".
"@70 JunieGirl, you can write this in stone and you can hound me all you want if I don't do it. The next time the Westboro crazies are featured here i will condemn them just as much as any other sane person because i believe that what they do goes against all Christian tenents and they give a bad name to Christianity. Let me assure you that no true preacher that preaches the gospel of Christ would say the stuff that they say because God does not hate, God is love.
Posted by Loveschild on November 10, 2009 at 7:50 PM "
It seems hating is allowed when it's a sovereign nation, and espoused by an evangelical Christian leader of that nation. Nice way to keep ones conscience clean under "Thou shall not kill".
28
This is why we should start putting conditions on the money we give to African nations. Want to be propped up by our cash? Join us in the twenty first century.
Oh and Loveschild? Suck my balls you moronic hypocrite.
Oh and Loveschild? Suck my balls you moronic hypocrite.
30
Loveschild, can we take it that you're cool with the Saudi law that calls for the execution of any Christian proselytizing there?
31
It's amazing that LC totally skips... you know... the whole killing thing. Just like with Jamaica, LC will ignore that these nations are slaughtering their citizens (because they're those nasty dirty gays, so they aren't really worth acknowledgment) and condemn those who actually care about human beings, no matter what their nationality.
32
If we could identify gay fetuses in the womb, would fundamentalist Christians be for or against killing them?
33
If we could identify gay fetuses in the womb, would fundamentalist Christians be for or against killing them?
35
@30
My point was that we (i believe that includes you also) are not in Uganda nor Saudi Arabia, we're in america and as such i at least, am involved in what's happening here unless i see a direct attack as has been attempted by some (not all) gay groups at nations that hold on to different opinions and worldviews and religious values like Jamaica. If i see any violence against gays here you better believe i will condemn it, because no one should be harmed for what they do or what they identify as to others.
My point was that we (i believe that includes you also) are not in Uganda nor Saudi Arabia, we're in america and as such i at least, am involved in what's happening here unless i see a direct attack as has been attempted by some (not all) gay groups at nations that hold on to different opinions and worldviews and religious values like Jamaica. If i see any violence against gays here you better believe i will condemn it, because no one should be harmed for what they do or what they identify as to others.
37
@35: Like that time you accused the victims of a gay-bashing in Seaside, Oregon of being prostitutes or drug dealers, or when you rebutted the news story of the gang-rape of a lesbian with the story of Ms. Lamb and her styrofoam cross, or completely ignoring the surge in anti-gay hate-crimes in CA post-Prop 8?
Liar.
Liar.
38
@19 Homosexuality, if defined as just desire for someone of the same gender, isn't a sin in the Bible. Specifically it is assfucking between two men that's prohibited as "an abomination," and it --does-- call for the death penalty. From Leviticius 20:13:
"13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea…
"13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea…
40
@38: Actually, Leviticus 20:13 is more correctly translated as forbidding two men from lying together in a woman's bed. Two men were welcome to have sex together (like David and Jonathan, for example), but they were not to do it in the marriage bed.
42
I second what Kim @11 said. It becomes harder and harder to explain why I am a Christian when supposed Christians around the world perpetrate such heinous acts against their brothers and sisters.
43
I wonder if Warren and LC would be so laissez faire if they were killing christians; oh wait, since 78% of the country is christian most of the murdered people are.
44
Someone make Dan say that he loves kittens so lovechildren can agree with him... I need 10 points...
45
Loveschild, you did not answer the question or even get near it. Ugandans and Saudis are not less deserving of our attention and our advocacy simply because they are not Americans.
46
"As for me dear Bacon unlike many on your side I have no interest in meddling in the affairs of sovereign self ruled nations, unless my fellow Americans on your side of the fence take an active role in attacking them."
This leads me to suspect that the Loveschild posts are written by the same person who writes the A. Birch Steen Public Editor pieces.
This leads me to suspect that the Loveschild posts are written by the same person who writes the A. Birch Steen Public Editor pieces.
47
Ugandan's are pretty cool people but SUPER FUNDY. I'm talking church service every night, for a couple hours. And then completely flipping the fuck out over finding a wankmag in the latrines. Good people, good soldiers, but fucking nuts.
I could see this passing there.
I could see this passing there.
48
God, stuff likes this makes me sick. Sure, suddenly claim what another nation does is none of your business, won't stop you from sending missionaries there to convert people, I've seen plenty of evangelical Christians speak out against abortion in China. Fundies insert themselves in foreign politics when they feel it convenient to do so. That Warren is backing off from this but not speaking against it says volumes.
49
READ THE BILL!!!... it's not about killing gays and lesbians, it's about people committing aggravated homosexuality! The difference is this is like forcing sex on a minor or old person who is unwilling to defend themselves or don't want it. You wouldn't support rape, would you?
50
READ THE BILL!!!... it's not about killing gays and lesbians, it's about people committing aggravated homosexuality! The difference is this is like forcing sex on a minor or old person who is unwilling to defend themselves or don't want it. You wouldn't support rape, would you?
51
I find this so sad. In the 21st century why we still are so ignorant to peace/happiness.
If you think back, in the not so distant past people from Africa/of visible minority were victims of racism and slavery. For Uganda to come up with a 'Kill the Gays' agenda is no worse than the people who enslaved their nation not so long ago. They will be aligned with Hitler/Nazi's in our history books in the years to come.
This will be the fall/end of their nation.
God does not preach hate...god taught us to love each other.
The fact that people take quotes from the Bible so literal is an insult to god. The Bible is a book, an old story and while I do believe there is some truth in it...it's a story and stories will get confused or changed when past from one person to the next...anyone ever played the 'telephone' game to find out how quickly/backwards things can get when past from one individual to the next?
I feel sorry for these people...they will all be upset when god does not welcome them into his kingdom because of these sins they are causing.
If you don't agree with homosexuality that is fine/you own individual opinion but to want to kill/exterminate any group of people/animals/plants (GOD CREATURES) is a sin...if God didn't want them to exist he would not have made them in the first place?
Again, this makes me sad and I just feel sorry for these people as they will be the ones to suffer in the end but their narrow minded opinion/leaders are condemning their nation not only to a lifetime but to an eternity of suffering.
Live life and love. Life is too short to hate.
If you think back, in the not so distant past people from Africa/of visible minority were victims of racism and slavery. For Uganda to come up with a 'Kill the Gays' agenda is no worse than the people who enslaved their nation not so long ago. They will be aligned with Hitler/Nazi's in our history books in the years to come.
This will be the fall/end of their nation.
God does not preach hate...god taught us to love each other.
The fact that people take quotes from the Bible so literal is an insult to god. The Bible is a book, an old story and while I do believe there is some truth in it...it's a story and stories will get confused or changed when past from one person to the next...anyone ever played the 'telephone' game to find out how quickly/backwards things can get when past from one individual to the next?
I feel sorry for these people...they will all be upset when god does not welcome them into his kingdom because of these sins they are causing.
If you don't agree with homosexuality that is fine/you own individual opinion but to want to kill/exterminate any group of people/animals/plants (GOD CREATURES) is a sin...if God didn't want them to exist he would not have made them in the first place?
Again, this makes me sad and I just feel sorry for these people as they will be the ones to suffer in the end but their narrow minded opinion/leaders are condemning their nation not only to a lifetime but to an eternity of suffering.
Live life and love. Life is too short to hate.
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