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News & ArtsThursday, November 26, 2009
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Anybody?
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 4:50 PM
It's a holiday and I'm taking the day off from doling out the advice. I'm also in a slightly impaired state here—slightly more impaired than usual—and I don't feel like I should be operating the heavy advice machinery. But it's not a holiday in Iceland and this girl could use a little advice...
I began listening to your podcast a few months ago. I'm actually listening to the latest one now.I've been thinking about emailing you for a while actually. I would really have liked to call but it´s to expencive :( I'm a 20 year old icelandic university student. 2 months ago me and my off and on oyfriend
broke up (for the third time). We were really young when we got together. Only 15 and 16 years old. The first year was great, the second year we broke up and while I was on vacation in Greece he slept with my best friend. That hurt, alot, but we weren't together and he begged for my forgiveness and 2 months after that we started seeing each other again.The second time we broke up was because he got drunk and kissed that same ex-friend of mine in a bar. He decided to tell me and I broke up with him but took him back.
The third time was pretty mutual. I wanted to move in together, him to commit, he couldn't do it, he wasn't ready blablabla. We really love each other. He says he's still in love with me, he was devestated when he found out that I was seeing other guys because we said to each other when we broke up that we would wait a while before seeing other people. There wasn't a timeline and I kissed a couple of guys, mostly to boost my ego a little bit.
But of course, one drunken night, we were out with friends( we have all of the same friends) and ended up sleeping together. Since then we've slept together 4 times and it's really intense. He says he loves me and misses me, that i'm so beautiful and all that. I'm still in love with him but hasn't our history together shown us that we simply don't work? We are great when we're together, we go on trips, have the same hobbies but other than that we're really different. I'm outgoing, a top student and really romantic. He is artistic, intense, often deep in thought and kind of shy. The sex was/is great. Kind of better now that we're not together anymore.
I guess what I'm asking is should I just give up already? Try to move on with my life? I'm co-dependant, my dad and stepdad are both recovering alchoholics. So I might just be clinging to something hopeless.
What do you think?
Torn And Confused In Iceland
P.S. #2: Sorry it's such a long email :)
Got some words of wisdom for her, Holiday Sloggers?
1
I recommend TACII look at Tuesday's SL Letter of the Day. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
She's not yet in that boat but she's on the train to the docks.
She's not yet in that boat but she's on the train to the docks.
2
You're lazy. DTMFA and find a relationship that's more about what you enjoy about the guy than the needless, negative drama you're wallowing in today.
I guess the bottom line is this:
IMMATURE
How could I be so immature
to think he would replace
the missing elements in me?
How extremely lazy of me.
-- Björk
I guess the bottom line is this:
IMMATURE
How could I be so immature
to think he would replace
the missing elements in me?
How extremely lazy of me.
-- Björk
3
Give up on him. You're setting a dangerous precedent, showing that you'll take him back even when he cheats on you. Especially with the alcoholism family stuff, you need to distance yourself from this guy. And the relationship didn't work the first three times, it most likely won't work this time either.
6
Oh, sweetness, please do yourself a favor : stop talking to him. Seriously. A period of no contact is great for two souls who are in each other's lives but just shouldn't be romantic partners. Be nice, be polite, and even cordial in public - but DO NOT have conversations with him alone (by text, email, phone, or in person). You will be able to break the "clingy" feeling more easily without the intense emotional pull. It's nice that you recognize the co-dependent feeling. Now do something positive with that knowledge. Fill your life with positive activities that further your future, rather than drunken sex (which is less safe, I guarantee you, emotionally and otherwise) with your "ex". I mean, there's nothing wrong with drunken sex, but call that decision to have sex beforehand! (I don't want folks to think that the Goddess is a prude or anti-alcohol!) Good luck, sweetheart. Let Dan know how it works out!
7
Oh I don't know....I started out a lot like this, I was 18 he was 24....several rocky years, several years of negotiations. And now here we are, married for 18+, still pinching ourselves that it worked out. Nobody in their right mind would have bet on us either...just like noone wants to bet on Iceland and her beau. I don't think she's being silly, she's still young, why not let it ride for a bit? Eventually it will break, and the decision will be obvious.
8
The question is, has anything changed since the last time they broke up?
I disagree that they necessarily shouldn't be together--they were young when they first paired up, and people make mistakes. But if she still codependently wants to move in with him (which I think is dumb at their age, but maybe it's the norm in Iceland, what do I know), and he still can't commit, etc, then it's a bad idea and they should just enjoy the occasional intense ex sex. If they actually both want the same things from each other, why not give it another shot? They're young, they've got time to spend one more mistake on each other, and it doesn't sound like anything in the past relationships was abusive or beyond the pale.
I disagree that they necessarily shouldn't be together--they were young when they first paired up, and people make mistakes. But if she still codependently wants to move in with him (which I think is dumb at their age, but maybe it's the norm in Iceland, what do I know), and he still can't commit, etc, then it's a bad idea and they should just enjoy the occasional intense ex sex. If they actually both want the same things from each other, why not give it another shot? They're young, they've got time to spend one more mistake on each other, and it doesn't sound like anything in the past relationships was abusive or beyond the pale.
9
I see no reason she shouldn't keep having awesome sex with him; as long as neither think it means 'together forever', but merely means 'awesome sex'
And moves on with her life; focus on education, work, friends, working on her alcoholic-parent issues.
And moves on with her life; focus on education, work, friends, working on her alcoholic-parent issues.
10
No you're not. He cheats; you argue about commitment; you're worried about everything when it comes to him; he fucked your best friend, for crying out loud. You're not great together. You're Drama personified.
If you could hook up with him without getting your emotions and feelings complicated with it, that would be great because he doesn't sound like too much of an asshole, but that doesn't seem to be possible.
It sounds to me like when you're with him you're not happy, but when you're apart you tend to idealize the relationship. Give yourself time to get over missing him. I think that might be the problem. You split up, the anger subsides, you begin to miss each other and you don't weather that time. Instead you begin creating a false past, remembering only the good times and not the reasons you broke up to begin with. When you begin to miss him, you have to remind yourself of why you broke up. Don't idealize him.
Eventually, you'll get over missing him. I promise.
By the way, I'm kind of tipsy too. ::hic::
We are great when we're together
No you're not. He cheats; you argue about commitment; you're worried about everything when it comes to him; he fucked your best friend, for crying out loud. You're not great together. You're Drama personified.
If you could hook up with him without getting your emotions and feelings complicated with it, that would be great because he doesn't sound like too much of an asshole, but that doesn't seem to be possible.
It sounds to me like when you're with him you're not happy, but when you're apart you tend to idealize the relationship. Give yourself time to get over missing him. I think that might be the problem. You split up, the anger subsides, you begin to miss each other and you don't weather that time. Instead you begin creating a false past, remembering only the good times and not the reasons you broke up to begin with. When you begin to miss him, you have to remind yourself of why you broke up. Don't idealize him.
Eventually, you'll get over missing him. I promise.
By the way, I'm kind of tipsy too. ::hic::
11
My vote is dump him. A long-term relationship needs more than good sex to stay alive, especially considering the drama of the past. I would second what TheGoddessMaria suggests and break off contact with him. My feeling is that once he's out of your life, you'll realize you're better off. Concentrate on yourself for awhile and clear your head of him.
Good luck whatever you decide!
Good luck whatever you decide!
12
Both of them have some growing up to do. They're young and they need to experience the world on their own for awhile. I don't think she should necessarily cut him out of her life forever, but taking a year off from serious relationships could give them both some much needed breathing room.
13
Rule Number Two of Life on Earth is "When someone shows you who they are - OVER & OVER AGAIN - believe them." Your letter makes it clear that you don't believe this guy at all. You insist on seeing him as someone who cares about you and respects you, even though he is positively SCREAMING at you that he doesn't. AT ALL.
Good luck. You'll need it.
Good luck. You'll need it.
14
Torn And Confused In Iceland,
DTMFA. You're first boyfriend should not be your last boyfriend. Date people. Lot's of people. No drama, no commitment. They won't be the love of your life in all likelihood, but maybe they'll get be good friends. Better friends than what you've got now. Then when you're through with Uni you'll have time and maturity for a committed relationship....with somebody who's also interested in a committed relationship and equally mature.
DTMFA. You're first boyfriend should not be your last boyfriend. Date people. Lot's of people. No drama, no commitment. They won't be the love of your life in all likelihood, but maybe they'll get be good friends. Better friends than what you've got now. Then when you're through with Uni you'll have time and maturity for a committed relationship....with somebody who's also interested in a committed relationship and equally mature.
15
Down here in Australia (where it's also not a holiday), we have a relationship maxim that goes like this: don't go back to old stock. It's easy, it's familiar, and you're going to have some residual emotional attachment that is easy to confuse with something more profound (especially when you're feeling a bit lonely postbreak-up), but it's usually a mistake. Don't go back to old stock.
Ps. There was a disturbing absence of umlauts in your letter. Please feed our hunger for cultural diversity. All I know about Iceland is Bjork and bankrupt banks, and one of those things has an umlaut in it!
Ps. There was a disturbing absence of umlauts in your letter. Please feed our hunger for cultural diversity. All I know about Iceland is Bjork and bankrupt banks, and one of those things has an umlaut in it!
16
No matter how cool wild or hip you make these "relationships" sound, it all ends up being the plot of Annie Hall.
Icelandic Alvy Singer: Go and see other guys.
Icelandic Annie Hall: I don't want to see other guys...why...do you think I should?
(A year later...in Iceland.)
Icelandic Alvy Singer: Why are you always sleeping around!
Icelandic Annie Hall: Professor Olafssun said it would be good for my development.
Icelandic Alvy Singer: Development? What does he know about development...he's a Lapp. One day you'll wake up and find out that he's half way across the fiord and you've been left behind with the old people during that years crossing!
Icelandic Alvy Singer: Go and see other guys.
Icelandic Annie Hall: I don't want to see other guys...why...do you think I should?
(A year later...in Iceland.)
Icelandic Alvy Singer: Why are you always sleeping around!
Icelandic Annie Hall: Professor Olafssun said it would be good for my development.
Icelandic Alvy Singer: Development? What does he know about development...he's a Lapp. One day you'll wake up and find out that he's half way across the fiord and you've been left behind with the old people during that years crossing!
17
@15, I've never heard of 'don't go back to old stock.' I like it though. Makes me feel like a jillaroo.
I think TACII's major block is that they share the same friends. She needs to broaden her circle, find a hobby, some volunteer work, anything that will give her a break from what sounds like quite an intense group of friends. And yeah, intense sex gets old quickly.
I think TACII's major block is that they share the same friends. She needs to broaden her circle, find a hobby, some volunteer work, anything that will give her a break from what sounds like quite an intense group of friends. And yeah, intense sex gets old quickly.
19
I'm going against the general consensus here and advising you to give it a shot. Give it a shot, but proceed with caution. Proceeding with caution means giving it several more months before moving in together.
You've got a history together going back to high school. You're both really dear to each other. Neither of you has done anything really horrible to the other. The sex is good. You share a first language that's peculiar to only 320,000 people on the planet.
It seems to me that the biggest obstacle between you is not either of you, not traits either of you have, not weaknesses in either of your characters, but the unrealistic Judeo-Christian notion of fidelity.
We're still expected to meet someone right at the beginning of adulthood, not even kiss until then, marry within a year, and stay exclusively exclusive to each other until you both die. It made more sense 200 years ago when you were expected to die of overwork, old age, and poor nutrition before you turned 50. But it was bullshit then, even as an ideal. It's twice bullshittier now when your life expectancy is approaching 100.
At your age, exclusive monogamy is too much to expect from either one of you. You're both in your unsettled youth. It's your time of life to backpack through Europe, tour the US, make sacrifices for your career, have short mad flings with boys and girls who in the morning look oddly like Christopher Guest as Count Rugin in The Princess Bride. Settling down is somewhere between five and ten years in the future.
So reassess and redefine your relationship based on those terms, TACII. See if you can make each other happy with looser expectations of monogamy. For both of you.
Be prepared for the possibility that you may not be well suited for each other, but it's worth another shot.
More...
You've got a history together going back to high school. You're both really dear to each other. Neither of you has done anything really horrible to the other. The sex is good. You share a first language that's peculiar to only 320,000 people on the planet.
It seems to me that the biggest obstacle between you is not either of you, not traits either of you have, not weaknesses in either of your characters, but the unrealistic Judeo-Christian notion of fidelity.
We're still expected to meet someone right at the beginning of adulthood, not even kiss until then, marry within a year, and stay exclusively exclusive to each other until you both die. It made more sense 200 years ago when you were expected to die of overwork, old age, and poor nutrition before you turned 50. But it was bullshit then, even as an ideal. It's twice bullshittier now when your life expectancy is approaching 100.
At your age, exclusive monogamy is too much to expect from either one of you. You're both in your unsettled youth. It's your time of life to backpack through Europe, tour the US, make sacrifices for your career, have short mad flings with boys and girls who in the morning look oddly like Christopher Guest as Count Rugin in The Princess Bride. Settling down is somewhere between five and ten years in the future.
So reassess and redefine your relationship based on those terms, TACII. See if you can make each other happy with looser expectations of monogamy. For both of you.
Be prepared for the possibility that you may not be well suited for each other, but it's worth another shot.
20
I'm with 17 - get some new friends. Once you have him totally out of your life, you won't get sucked back in with the "I miss you" "I love you" and "you're beautiful" lines he is spouting. It will take awhile, particularly since you sound like a young, naive, insecure girl (who isn't at 20?), but this, too, shall pass. Find someone else to hang out with, and you will eventually be OK and over him.
If it didn't work before and he keeps cheating on you, what makes you think he will change now?
If it didn't work before and he keeps cheating on you, what makes you think he will change now?
21
Do whatever you want. You'll either work out or you'll get tired of the bullshit, break up and move on for real. You're young enough that you'll recover pretty quick, but if you don't keep giving it that one last try, then you'll always wonder, what if.
Chances are good you'll get tired of the bullshit cuz you're already questioning it now. So do whatever.
Chances are good you'll get tired of the bullshit cuz you're already questioning it now. So do whatever.
22
Before you DTMFA, you could try couple's therapy. My boyfriend and I had some prob;lems that we thought couldn't be worked out. Everyone thought we should break up. But instead we tried couple's therapy and were able to work out our issues. We're now engaged.
That said, if the therapy doesn't go well, then DTMFA.
That said, if the therapy doesn't go well, then DTMFA.
23
Sounds like every straight couple I've ever known. They will get married, have kids, and spend the rest of their lives regretting it.
24
Eh, it's a hard call because of course there are relationships that start rocky and work out, but I'd venture to guess that it's more the norm that these things stay rocky and end rough. Had a six year constant battle myself, starting about age 16, and, honestly, the ex sex made it worse (emotionally) when we weren't together. Once we'd been apart and not having sex for a (really, really long) while, the ex sex was great and emotionally painless. It didn't work out as a relationship though, and by that point we were both able to acknowledge that we were just different people who wouldn't be able to work out in the long term.
So.... my suggestion would be a)stay apart. Don't get back together with dude right now. b) halt the sex too. Do some more of that ego boosting, maybe even some definitely-not-going-anywhere relationships and just generally live a little. You're young and deserve some time to live your life, with all the sleeping around and whatnot that that may entail. And c) if after a while you wanna start back up with him in the sak, see how that works, what kind of people you are at that point, if there's enough compatibility, etc. and maybe then you'll be far enough removed from everything you're feeling right now to make a decision about where the two of you should head at that point.
Or, you could disregard all of that, keep it up as is, and prove me completely wrong. Good luck with it though.
So.... my suggestion would be a)stay apart. Don't get back together with dude right now. b) halt the sex too. Do some more of that ego boosting, maybe even some definitely-not-going-anywhere relationships and just generally live a little. You're young and deserve some time to live your life, with all the sleeping around and whatnot that that may entail. And c) if after a while you wanna start back up with him in the sak, see how that works, what kind of people you are at that point, if there's enough compatibility, etc. and maybe then you'll be far enough removed from everything you're feeling right now to make a decision about where the two of you should head at that point.
Or, you could disregard all of that, keep it up as is, and prove me completely wrong. Good luck with it though.
25
What do you want? It's not about co-dependency, it's not about alcoholic family members. What is it that you REALLY want. Figure this out and THEN bring back into the picture this guy who you have made a connection with. Get out of your head and get connected to your heart.
26
Today, I'm thankful I'm not as inexperienced and naive as this woman clearly is. Those times were interesting... but thank christ they're over.
27
It's obvious that what you have together is precious and special. He just needs to know that you'll be there when he needs you, no matter how egregious the betrayal. Consider this your way of earning the life you deserve. Don't delay. Go to him. Give as much as you can. He just needs to see how happy he can be with you. If he makes more mistakes, be patient because he'll change once he really sees how willing you are to put up with any degree of abuse and humiliation.
MAKE HIM LOVE YOU and if you have to settle for being a doormat, take comfort in the fact that you love him. Tell yourself that as the joy drains from your life and as your youth disappears.
MAKE HIM LOVE YOU and if you have to settle for being a doormat, take comfort in the fact that you love him. Tell yourself that as the joy drains from your life and as your youth disappears.
29
You'll be over it in a year if you cut him off now. Seriously.
I would say hang in there see where it goes because it's special and sometimes these things work out blah blah blah. Life is too short. It's a waste of time. It's hasn't worked, it's not working, you don't sound happy. For every well-we-worked-out-stories, there's 10 we-stayed-together-made-each-other-miserable-for-nothing stories.
Here's an idea: Why not always gamble on your own happiness instead of the possibility that his behavior will do a 180? Are you unhappy now? Have you been unhappy with the situation for quite a while? Is your happiness currently contingent on his behavior because you're co-dependent?
Thought so. Forget him. Work through the co-dependency stuff. When another deal comes along, you'll be a stronger person, you'll love more completely, and won't find yourself gambling your happiness on a losing streak.
I would say hang in there see where it goes because it's special and sometimes these things work out blah blah blah. Life is too short. It's a waste of time. It's hasn't worked, it's not working, you don't sound happy. For every well-we-worked-out-stories, there's 10 we-stayed-together-made-each-other-miserable-for-nothing stories.
Here's an idea: Why not always gamble on your own happiness instead of the possibility that his behavior will do a 180? Are you unhappy now? Have you been unhappy with the situation for quite a while? Is your happiness currently contingent on his behavior because you're co-dependent?
Thought so. Forget him. Work through the co-dependency stuff. When another deal comes along, you'll be a stronger person, you'll love more completely, and won't find yourself gambling your happiness on a losing streak.
30
Ugh. You're 20, so you're going to keep making the same mistake over and over until you don't (hopefully that will be in the mid-twenties, but cross your fingers that you've at least stopped it by your 30s).
Face the fact that you will keep fucking this guy - the chemistry is too good, and you're both drama queens and all your friends (and strangers from the internet) telling you to dump each other just adds a hint of illicit spice to the mix. You'll probably continue to have sex with each other when one or both of you are in a "real" relationship.
My advice: Just keep doing it like rabbits until the shine wears off. It will eventually - probably around the time your friends get sick of hearing about the tormented nature of his/your soul, or you get a job and realize being "deep in thought and intense" doesn't actually pay any bills.
And if the shine never wears off, maybe you really are destined to make each other miserable for the rest of your lives, like all the happy drama queens who think it's not really romance unless somebody's about to slit a wrist.
Hopefully you'll fuck yourselves sane and bored before you make any lifetime committments that eliminate any chances to move outside your circle and find someone you can actually be happy with.
If I speak bitterly, it's because I WAS YOU when I was 20, and I hate that I ever wasted that much time crying over my bad poetry and notebooks (when I could have been nailing hot college guys).
For the record, the sex you have with other grown-ups is way better than it ever is with the guy you've been torturing yourself over since you were 15. Trust me.
Face the fact that you will keep fucking this guy - the chemistry is too good, and you're both drama queens and all your friends (and strangers from the internet) telling you to dump each other just adds a hint of illicit spice to the mix. You'll probably continue to have sex with each other when one or both of you are in a "real" relationship.
My advice: Just keep doing it like rabbits until the shine wears off. It will eventually - probably around the time your friends get sick of hearing about the tormented nature of his/your soul, or you get a job and realize being "deep in thought and intense" doesn't actually pay any bills.
And if the shine never wears off, maybe you really are destined to make each other miserable for the rest of your lives, like all the happy drama queens who think it's not really romance unless somebody's about to slit a wrist.
Hopefully you'll fuck yourselves sane and bored before you make any lifetime committments that eliminate any chances to move outside your circle and find someone you can actually be happy with.
If I speak bitterly, it's because I WAS YOU when I was 20, and I hate that I ever wasted that much time crying over my bad poetry and notebooks (when I could have been nailing hot college guys).
For the record, the sex you have with other grown-ups is way better than it ever is with the guy you've been torturing yourself over since you were 15. Trust me.
31
I agree with 21. You're so young, and it sounds like he hasn't been dangerous or abusive. It's just normal young love nonsense and maybe you just need to play it out. My guess is that the relationship will be consistently wonderful as long as you're not officially 'together.' But move in together, or even just decide you're back to being a couple, and it will go downhill again.
The fact that you have all the same friends won't help you get out of the situation if and when you decide you've had enough. When that time comes, you're gonna need to get away. Spend 6 months abroad or something. Find out that life is so much bigger and that love is not the be-all and end-all.
The fact that you have all the same friends won't help you get out of the situation if and when you decide you've had enough. When that time comes, you're gonna need to get away. Spend 6 months abroad or something. Find out that life is so much bigger and that love is not the be-all and end-all.
32
The first real relationship is special. It's very hard to acknowledge when it doesn't work. It sounds like this one doesn't - just like about 95-99% of all first serious relationships.
I'd break it up and give it some time before you see each other on a regular social level. A lot of people manage to later build friendships based on such a relationship, but that will take time and patience if it's supposed to work.
I'd definitely not call this a DTMFA, though - the guy isn't abusive, he's just regular late-teen immature, so no reason to blame him either. Just recognize he's not for you.
Some people have brought up the fact that Iceland is small (and an island...) which may make you feel more constrained in your choice. I'd imagine possible circles of friends in a city of 300.000 are a bit limited - but you seem very bright, you say you're a top student, and you're already international enough to turn to a US-based sex-columnist so: travel! Study a year abroad! Do an internship in a country South of the equator! Chances are you'll meet so many incredible people (and maybe even your future partner) that you'll forget your Ex.
P.S. (and I'm with Karla (30) on the sex )
I'd break it up and give it some time before you see each other on a regular social level. A lot of people manage to later build friendships based on such a relationship, but that will take time and patience if it's supposed to work.
I'd definitely not call this a DTMFA, though - the guy isn't abusive, he's just regular late-teen immature, so no reason to blame him either. Just recognize he's not for you.
Some people have brought up the fact that Iceland is small (and an island...) which may make you feel more constrained in your choice. I'd imagine possible circles of friends in a city of 300.000 are a bit limited - but you seem very bright, you say you're a top student, and you're already international enough to turn to a US-based sex-columnist so: travel! Study a year abroad! Do an internship in a country South of the equator! Chances are you'll meet so many incredible people (and maybe even your future partner) that you'll forget your Ex.
P.S. (and I'm with Karla (30) on the sex )
33
I think they deserve each other. Besides, what do you call three Icelanders sitting in the front seat of a Cadillac going off a cliff? A shame, you could have fit four more in the back.
The whole freaking country declared bankruptcy.
The whole freaking country declared bankruptcy.
34
My advice to TACII:
It's understandable why you feel drawn to go back to your ex. He was your first relationship, and your first love. He was the first person with whom you let down your emotional barriers and entered an intimate space. It feels safe to go back to him.
However, you are clearly not compatible. Let him go. I'm sure he does love you, but love alone is simply not enough. His actions show that he's not ready for the type of commitment and monogamy that you want.
I also question whether even *you* are ready for the the type of relationship you want. You mentioned that you are co-dependant. Considering this fact, and considering your young age, I don't think it's wise to rush into any commitment just yet. I strongly suggest trying some therapy to discuss your co-dependant issues with. (And if you find therapy doesn't work for you, at first please try a few different doctors. Different therapists have different styles, and you may need to "audition" a few until you find somebody you have a rapport with.) Before you make any strong romantic commitments, such as moving in together, you want to be able to feel that you have a good handle on your co-dependance. You may always have some co-dependant urges, the way an alcoholic may always have some urges to drink alcohol, but you need feel confident in your ability to resist them.
So, let your ex go. When you are ready, you will be able to open your heart to another person. You did it once, and you can do it again. For right now, I strongly encourage you to avoid *all* serious relationships, and focus on casual dating. But, even more than that, focus on youself, and your own satisfaction with life outside of a romantic relationship.
Also, and I know Dan tends not to agree with this, but DO NOT make ANY hook up decisions when you're drunk. You will most likely regret it. This might mean you never get drunk around your ex. This might mean you don't get drunk at bars or clubs at all. Or, if for some reason, getting drunk is an important social experience for you (and it seems to be for a lot of people), then designate a friend to watch out for you and stop you from making decisions you will regret.
More...
It's understandable why you feel drawn to go back to your ex. He was your first relationship, and your first love. He was the first person with whom you let down your emotional barriers and entered an intimate space. It feels safe to go back to him.
However, you are clearly not compatible. Let him go. I'm sure he does love you, but love alone is simply not enough. His actions show that he's not ready for the type of commitment and monogamy that you want.
I also question whether even *you* are ready for the the type of relationship you want. You mentioned that you are co-dependant. Considering this fact, and considering your young age, I don't think it's wise to rush into any commitment just yet. I strongly suggest trying some therapy to discuss your co-dependant issues with. (And if you find therapy doesn't work for you, at first please try a few different doctors. Different therapists have different styles, and you may need to "audition" a few until you find somebody you have a rapport with.) Before you make any strong romantic commitments, such as moving in together, you want to be able to feel that you have a good handle on your co-dependance. You may always have some co-dependant urges, the way an alcoholic may always have some urges to drink alcohol, but you need feel confident in your ability to resist them.
So, let your ex go. When you are ready, you will be able to open your heart to another person. You did it once, and you can do it again. For right now, I strongly encourage you to avoid *all* serious relationships, and focus on casual dating. But, even more than that, focus on youself, and your own satisfaction with life outside of a romantic relationship.
Also, and I know Dan tends not to agree with this, but DO NOT make ANY hook up decisions when you're drunk. You will most likely regret it. This might mean you never get drunk around your ex. This might mean you don't get drunk at bars or clubs at all. Or, if for some reason, getting drunk is an important social experience for you (and it seems to be for a lot of people), then designate a friend to watch out for you and stop you from making decisions you will regret.
35
if you just can't stay away then insist on an open relationship. spend the whole time pretending you have better things to be doing. keep pretending it until it's true.
36
Travel, go to therapy, go get drunk with some people who are not this guy and your nutty ex-friend he cheated with. Not necessarily in that order.
20 is an age to start figuring out YOURSELF instead of puzzling and moping over some "deep, intense" guy. There is no such thing as the one guy you are meant to be with and you have to let this first relationship go so you can take a step out into a larger and better world.
20 is an age to start figuring out YOURSELF instead of puzzling and moping over some "deep, intense" guy. There is no such thing as the one guy you are meant to be with and you have to let this first relationship go so you can take a step out into a larger and better world.
37
Just keep it casual. Don't expect a serious commitment because neither of you is mature enough yet. Don't expect him to change and you won't be disappointed. And alcohol is clouding your thinking, so keep it to a minimum when you two are around each other.
38
whay are so many of you suggesting her to see a therapist?? you americans are really nuts about therapy, but, hello!! she's 20 and in love with a guy who's also around 20. both inmature and having great sex and learning how to deal with life and its little problems.
they do not need any therapy, just to try things and choose... maybe when she meets another hot-icelandic guy who's top of his class and wants to eat her all night long... then whe'll DTMFA. unitl then, icelandic chick, experiment all you want with your trusted partner!
they do not need any therapy, just to try things and choose... maybe when she meets another hot-icelandic guy who's top of his class and wants to eat her all night long... then whe'll DTMFA. unitl then, icelandic chick, experiment all you want with your trusted partner!
39
Well, I wonder what the dating pool is like where she is. It's certainly easy to say "Don't see him for a year" or "make new friends" but if they live in a fairly small community, that's relatively impossible. And if they're having great sex with no strings attached, who's to say they should break up and forgo all contact?
No one's telling her to marry the guy. She should just enjoy the relationship for what it is and isn't, concentrate on her studies, enjoy her other friends, and not feel compelled to make any life-changing decisions at this stage of her young life.
No one's telling her to marry the guy. She should just enjoy the relationship for what it is and isn't, concentrate on her studies, enjoy her other friends, and not feel compelled to make any life-changing decisions at this stage of her young life.
40
TACII should realize that her boyfriend has never really left high school with the kind of shit he's playing and the ridiculous mind games .He can fuck your best friend and beg and cry for forgiveness but you can't even KISS other guys WHILE YOU TWO ARE NOT TOGETHER?! Because of some bullshit promise you two made to one another?
You're an adult, start demanding that you be treated like one - DTMFA.
You're an adult, start demanding that you be treated like one - DTMFA.
41
Hook up with some new guys and keep him around for a booty call if it is expedient for you. This is essentially what you are getting out of the deal from him. Take some ownership of your life and do not let him dictate if or when it is okay for you to move on.
Oh and describing a guy as "artistic and intense" is a polite way of saying he is a prissy, domineering asshole.
Oh and describing a guy as "artistic and intense" is a polite way of saying he is a prissy, domineering asshole.
42
Several folks above say DTMFA on the grounds that he's a cheater. But by my count, there's been hardly any cheating. He did sleep with her best friend, but only after they had broken up (the first time): "we weren't together". Sole actual cheating: him kissing the best friend in a bar while drunk.
45
Artistic and intense? Just chill out and enjoy your 20's, ten years from now you'll look back and have a good laugh about it.
46
Given that you're both still young there's no reason you should be looking for that life-time commitment right now. But this guy may well keep you in his life as a placeholder until he's ready to get married then marry someone else.
So have as much fun with him as you can, but don't expect to be the only person he has sex with, and don't make him your only partner either. If, when you're both some what more settled in your adult lives, you end up together that will be great. And if you don't you will have had a great relationship that may become a life-long friendship you both cherish.
So have as much fun with him as you can, but don't expect to be the only person he has sex with, and don't make him your only partner either. If, when you're both some what more settled in your adult lives, you end up together that will be great. And if you don't you will have had a great relationship that may become a life-long friendship you both cherish.
47
You gave him a second chance and he blew it. Third chance, he blew it. Now he thinks he has a lifetime pass to abuse your trust with no consequences. It's time to move on and find someone who's worth the energy.
48
Sounds like she's got a perfectly good fuck-buddy that she needs to set some clear emotional limits around. If they emotional limits can not be maintained, then it is time to cut off contact as much as possible.
49
Torn And Confused In Iceland's story reminded me of my last relationship. I realized things were never going to work because I was constantly compromising and didn't feel like I was being myself. We broke up 6 months ago and I've never looked back. Ditch The Mother Fucker Already.
50
I would say stay fuckbuddies and see other ppl. That way you can see if hanging out together stays fun, without all of the "this is the one" pressure. Also you are both really young and probably have a lot to learn about yourselves. Having a flexible relationship could give you the space to grow and try things. flexible honest relationships last.
51
"I wanted to move in together, him to commit, he couldn't do it, he wasn't ready blablabla. We really love each other. He says he's still in love with me, he was devestated when he found out that I was seeing other guys"
What do you really want? Do you still want to move in together and commit? If you keep going like this, off-and-on, being vague about what you're doing, it's not going to happen. Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free is probably what he's thinking. Also, I note that he became interested in you when you started seeing other guys. That is such classic boy behaviour. He treated you badly, you did the right thing by breaking up, other guys show interest in you, he shows interest in you again. *yawn*
If, on the other hand, you just really want great, intense sex, keep doing what you're doing. Like others said, have fun, but don't get too emotionally involved. Who knows, maybe you will end up long-term, like some of the commenters here, but don't HOPE for that, know what I mean?
But at this point, I think you need to work out your codependent and being a child of an alcoholic issues. If you're codependent, I don't know how you can NOT get emotionally involved with this guy, especially since you already are. I say make a commitment to yourself to get healthy, to work out those codependent issues, and learn how to have healthy relationships. Yes, you're young, you're 20 you should have fun blah blah, but you know what? It's better to work these issues out earlier than later. I'd rather see you deal with them now rather than in a few years after making some bad choices and getting screwed up from them and have THOSE to work out as well. I'm not saying you ARE going to make bad choices; I think there's a likelihood of not making very good choices given you're codependent and a child of alcoholics. I'd rather you head that off at the pass if you can.
I agree with Jade, Karla, and Pay. I disagree with girlinspain.
More...
What do you really want? Do you still want to move in together and commit? If you keep going like this, off-and-on, being vague about what you're doing, it's not going to happen. Why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free is probably what he's thinking. Also, I note that he became interested in you when you started seeing other guys. That is such classic boy behaviour. He treated you badly, you did the right thing by breaking up, other guys show interest in you, he shows interest in you again. *yawn*
If, on the other hand, you just really want great, intense sex, keep doing what you're doing. Like others said, have fun, but don't get too emotionally involved. Who knows, maybe you will end up long-term, like some of the commenters here, but don't HOPE for that, know what I mean?
But at this point, I think you need to work out your codependent and being a child of an alcoholic issues. If you're codependent, I don't know how you can NOT get emotionally involved with this guy, especially since you already are. I say make a commitment to yourself to get healthy, to work out those codependent issues, and learn how to have healthy relationships. Yes, you're young, you're 20 you should have fun blah blah, but you know what? It's better to work these issues out earlier than later. I'd rather see you deal with them now rather than in a few years after making some bad choices and getting screwed up from them and have THOSE to work out as well. I'm not saying you ARE going to make bad choices; I think there's a likelihood of not making very good choices given you're codependent and a child of alcoholics. I'd rather you head that off at the pass if you can.
I agree with Jade, Karla, and Pay. I disagree with girlinspain.
52
Just because he doesn't want you to see other guys doesn't mean he loves you. Just means that he's insecure, and on some level, wants you to want him. It's an ego boost, even if he's not genuinely happy when he has you.
Look, you've gone through this not once, not twice, but three times. How many times do you have to repeat this before you realize this just isn't working for you two? In a few years, maybe you'll have both grown up a bit, and it'll all work out, but, for now, you need to tell him to fuck off, and don't hesitate, see other guys and do other things with your life.
First loves are hard, and you retain a weak spot for that person for a very long time. Don't mistake this weakness for the fate. There will be better men, and you'll see this when you've separated from this guy enough that you can actually see them. :)
Look, you've gone through this not once, not twice, but three times. How many times do you have to repeat this before you realize this just isn't working for you two? In a few years, maybe you'll have both grown up a bit, and it'll all work out, but, for now, you need to tell him to fuck off, and don't hesitate, see other guys and do other things with your life.
First loves are hard, and you retain a weak spot for that person for a very long time. Don't mistake this weakness for the fate. There will be better men, and you'll see this when you've separated from this guy enough that you can actually see them. :)
53
I think a lot of relationship problems come from deciding on the box you're trying to fill in your life ("husband", "primary", "fuckbuddy"), and then seeking a person to cram into it.That's backwards. People aren't box-shaped, and life is usually more flexible than interpersonal dynamics are. Meet the person, then see how they, specifically, fit into your life. Otherwise, you lose great people who may have been too awesome to fit into your preconception of the relationship.
Sounds like this guy doesn't wanna fit into the box you want him in. You accept where he does fit, or you let him go. If having some specific role in your life filled is really super crucial to your happiness, fine, but be clear about that.
Good luck.
Sounds like this guy doesn't wanna fit into the box you want him in. You accept where he does fit, or you let him go. If having some specific role in your life filled is really super crucial to your happiness, fine, but be clear about that.
Good luck.
54
I'm confused about how this dirty asshole licking bigot is in a position to give advice to anyone. Got any sex advice for the "tard" crowd, FAGGOT felcher? You're NO better than anyone who's ever bashed you with a gay slur. Never forget that.
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