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News & ArtsWednesday, November 25, 2009
Politics / Retail Bikinigate
Posted by Grant Brissey on Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Remember this? Here is Bellevue's version:
- KOMO
Just days after it opened, the scantily-clad baristas at Knotty Bodies in Bellevue are getting some steam from city officials.On Tuesday, city officials said they planned to shut down the business because it is not complying with city codes.
Code enforcement officers delivered two cease-and-desist orders. One said the stand's curb-side ad is in violation of the city's sign ordinance, and the other ordered the stand to close until the owner builds barriers around the drive-through lane.
"They told us if we continue to serve today, there is a $100 fine," said one barista.
The baristas appeared unaffected by the warning, however, as they continued to serve customers using the drive-through lane.
Just after 5 p.m., code enforcement officers returned to the stand and put up orange cones around the drive-through lane at the stand, effectively shutting it down.
The article goes on to say that area residents filled a Monday night City Council meeting to complain about Knotty Bodies, and that Deputy Mayor Claudia Balducci "suggest[ed] shaming customers by taking pictures of them and then posting the photos online."
Christ I'm glad I don't live in Bellevue. Also, they couldn't come up with a better name than Knotty Bodies?
h/t: Seattlepi.com
1
I'm no lawyer but I'd bet that Bellevue doesn't have any codes that prevent a business like this from operating. Going for "code violations" is the way to enforce unwritten rules.
If this place is still open in January, I'm taking the whole family there, and we're all going to smile and pose for the picture. Think they'll post it? Or do you think they'll stick to the perviest-looking dudes only?
If this place is still open in January, I'm taking the whole family there, and we're all going to smile and pose for the picture. Think they'll post it? Or do you think they'll stick to the perviest-looking dudes only?
2
There's also a Knotty Bodies in Ballard. I haven't heard this kind of criticism coming from the Ballard store.
3
"Christ I'm glad I don't live in Bellevue."
Amen to that. The owners should file complaints about other businesses with similar code violations, and if the others are not similarly treated, sue the city for harassment. That's probably a bigger paycheck than selling coffee.
Amen to that. The owners should file complaints about other businesses with similar code violations, and if the others are not similarly treated, sue the city for harassment. That's probably a bigger paycheck than selling coffee.
4
If my wife knew that my picture would be taken and then used to "shame" then she would pack the kids into the car and make a family Christmas card out of it.
Or, I would be made to drive there, by my wife, and she would post my photo on her Facebook page.
Whenever I get tired of the bullshit in Seattle a story like those comes along to remind me why I should not move to the east side.
Or, I would be made to drive there, by my wife, and she would post my photo on her Facebook page.
Whenever I get tired of the bullshit in Seattle a story like those comes along to remind me why I should not move to the east side.
5
What exactly is the shame in this? Its not really my thing, coffee not boobies, but I can't see giving a shit if my picture was taken.
7
I'm with Giffy, what exactly is the shame in this? I wouldn't care if my picture was taken, I'd be there for the espresso if it was good, not the boobies.
8
Think of the children! The poor latte-sippin' nippers will be traumatized when they discover all women have breasts, not just mommy...
9
Here's a suggestion: If you don't like coffee served by scantily clad baristas, then get your coffee someplace else. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy coffee there. Otherwise, leave them the fuck alone.
And what's with this shaming bullshit? Is this Bellevue or rural Alabama?
And what's with this shaming bullshit? Is this Bellevue or rural Alabama?
11
"Also, they couldn't come up with a better name than Knotty Bodies?"
knotty bodies is a crap name, just trying too hard for too little return.
shoulda went with "mocha tits", or "the ass shack" maybe "poon 'n joe", simplicity people, it's not integrated dna separators for the multi-user interface you're sellin' here.
knotty bodies is a crap name, just trying too hard for too little return.
shoulda went with "mocha tits", or "the ass shack" maybe "poon 'n joe", simplicity people, it's not integrated dna separators for the multi-user interface you're sellin' here.
12
my concern is that the baristas could catch cold. i hope those bras have a flannel lining!
it's a sad comment on society that we still use titties to sell product, but if the women want to work there more power to them and their pride in their bodies. if the deputy mayor starts posting photographs of customers, i'll be sure to dress like the baristas when i purchase from them a steamy hot coco. and mine are bigger than theirs, madam deputy mayor, so it'll be on your head that they'll be visible to every pimply teen on the intertubes.
it's a sad comment on society that we still use titties to sell product, but if the women want to work there more power to them and their pride in their bodies. if the deputy mayor starts posting photographs of customers, i'll be sure to dress like the baristas when i purchase from them a steamy hot coco. and mine are bigger than theirs, madam deputy mayor, so it'll be on your head that they'll be visible to every pimply teen on the intertubes.
13
@12, titties are still used to sell products because us strait men will always love them, be distracted by them, and otherwise be willing to do really stupid shit (like pretending to be non mysoginistic and against using titties to sell stuff) for them, and the women attached to them. We are the ones being exploited, and I for one thank a God I don't even believe in for that!
14
If ECB still worked at The Stranger, this post wouldn't be permitted, because ECB agrees with Bellevue.
15
What sort of person is complaining about this so loudly that the officials feel the need to take action?
Old church ladies? Angry rednecks? Feminists? Soccer moms?
I'm stumped on the demographics of the movement against boobies. I'm in the "what's not to like?" school of thought on this.
Old church ladies? Angry rednecks? Feminists? Soccer moms?
I'm stumped on the demographics of the movement against boobies. I'm in the "what's not to like?" school of thought on this.
16
Not to defend Bellevue, which in general is pretty indefensible, but this place is actually kind if out in the sticks east of Crossroads mall. That's a mostly residential area nowhere near the actual city part of Bellevue.
19
Knotty Bodies, really? That name makes a hell of a lot more sense for a massage parlor than a coffee stand.
20
I'm as gay as the day is long, and even I like boobies (on women). I think it's something primal.
As far as who is protesting, I'd be willing to be it's a bunch of people from some church who were told to make a big stink. The millennium has pretty much come and gone. Can't these people go back to being apathetic?
As far as who is protesting, I'd be willing to be it's a bunch of people from some church who were told to make a big stink. The millennium has pretty much come and gone. Can't these people go back to being apathetic?
21
I think this kind of shit is terrible and a commodification of women's bodies, but that's really cute underwear.
24
Don't judge Bellevue by a few busybodies. I love it over here. Some of us eastside moms were discussing this and thought a good solution would be a guy version, to be called "Stir Stix".
25
they are convinced it is a front for prostitution, or licking whipped cream off the barista's tatas. you do remember the brouhaha about other stands up in everett or something? do yer homework, folks.
27
@25, you mean the sting where the police spent months trying to get handjobs from baristas? Damn I chose the wrong career.
Maybe they should start cracking down on high school students washing cars in bikinis for band camp. Fortunately for the enforcers of aracane municipal code, in our climate business models like these are limited.
Maybe they should start cracking down on high school students washing cars in bikinis for band camp. Fortunately for the enforcers of aracane municipal code, in our climate business models like these are limited.
28
@13 I hear ya. The fact is that we're sexually reproducing beings with bodies that reward us for having sex. I think what truly bothers the protesters is that they're ashamed of their own sexually and so can't handle the thought of explaining to junior that he is a product of "s.e.x." and will have plenty of it himself some day. Their attempt to shield children from all knowledge of sex only perpetuates the problem by creating yet another person ashamed about sex who will thus go after it covertly via bikini barista stands. In other words, the effort to prevent such places only insures their continues existence.
29
Grant, if you're into on-the-scene reporting and don't mind going one county north, go to the December 2nd Snohomish County Council meeting in Everett where two proposals will be discussed to ban bikini baristas. I have it on good authority that our anti-gay friends from Family Policy Institute of Washington (Russell Johnson) will be there in full moral fury.
http://snohomish.granicus.com/AgendaView…
http://snohomish.granicus.com/AgendaView…
31
Maybe they should sut down all the beaches everywhere so that nobody ever has to see a human body again.
32
Same as with the other story, sorry but city officials nor residents have any moral legitimacy here whatsoever to shut down or fine this establishment. Both owners and employees could well make a case for being discriminated against. If all adult sexual related taboos are to be done away in this state and made legal then they most certainly have to put up with this sort of establishment, you can't have it both ways.
34
If all adult sexual (sic) related taboos are to be done away (sic) in this state...
Is that your sense? Have pedophilia laws been softened recently? After the Enumclaw Horse affair, Sen. Pam Roach saw through a bill that formally classified bestiality as a Class C felony. Recent police sweeps of gay bars in Capitol Hill have resulted in fines for broadcasting hard core pornographic images; now all the models are in undies and swimsuits.
As much as this information bursts your victim bubble, it is the truth. No one is opening the door to anything resembling a "doing away with" sexual taboos (whatever "taboo" means).
Is that your sense? Have pedophilia laws been softened recently? After the Enumclaw Horse affair, Sen. Pam Roach saw through a bill that formally classified bestiality as a Class C felony. Recent police sweeps of gay bars in Capitol Hill have resulted in fines for broadcasting hard core pornographic images; now all the models are in undies and swimsuits.
As much as this information bursts your victim bubble, it is the truth. No one is opening the door to anything resembling a "doing away with" sexual taboos (whatever "taboo" means).
35
Is it possible that a business that uses "bikini baristas" is not, in fact, all progressive and celebrating sexual freedom for all, but instead simply using women's bodies in a very traditional way, as commodities to sell products? Does anyone notice the difference?
I'm not trying to be some kind of castrating bitch here. I think it's a fair question, and worth debating among intelligent people. Or is that question the kiss of death in this thread?
I'm not trying to be some kind of castrating bitch here. I think it's a fair question, and worth debating among intelligent people. Or is that question the kiss of death in this thread?
36
The irony is that male and female citizens of Seattle get more undressed than the two Knotty Bodies pictured here whenever it's sunny and breaks that brutal room temperature barrier.
The ChickaLatte near my house has added zero bad element to North Seattle. The Subway up the street attracts more "bad element", which isn't saying much
The ChickaLatte near my house has added zero bad element to North Seattle. The Subway up the street attracts more "bad element", which isn't saying much
37
Knotty Bodies would make a great name for a HAWT DRIVE-THRU PRETZEL STAND, which we need a lot more than another mammical cafe.
38
I agree with you, Irena @ 35. The Knotty Bodies enterprise is douchy. I'm not going to patronize them, but in the interest of tolerance I'm not going to dispute their right to have a business and personally profit from their bodies While Knotty Bodies is douchy, Bellevue is douchier . Their uneven application of regulations is a civil liberties disaster. And I suspect most Bellevue residents protesting this are not coming from a progressive feminist position, but rather one of anti-sexuality and WSPTOTC. That said, I agree that there's a (sometimes hazy) line between sex positivism and rampant douchebaggery and Chicka Latte et al. veer to the latter.
It sort of reminds me of Paul Constant's post about misogynists attacking Twilight. It's like, has it really come to defending Twilight?
It sort of reminds me of Paul Constant's post about misogynists attacking Twilight. It's like, has it really come to defending Twilight?
40
I am among those bothered by these espresso stands. I guess if we didn't live in such a repressive society then sexuality wouldn't be so taboo. Repressing human nature doesn't make it go away, it just makes for objectified expressions of female sexuality. The result is a deviated extract of the humanity.
Sexual expression is natural and nudity is great ... but at a coffee stand? In this state?
I suppose my concern is for the baristas - how well are they protected from creeps when they lock up at night? Plus I imagine it's really cold.
I think the cops are fucking stupid too for suggesting to publicize the guys who want to see boobs with their coffee. Way to try and make people feel guilty.
Sexual expression is natural and nudity is great ... but at a coffee stand? In this state?
I suppose my concern is for the baristas - how well are they protected from creeps when they lock up at night? Plus I imagine it's really cold.
I think the cops are fucking stupid too for suggesting to publicize the guys who want to see boobs with their coffee. Way to try and make people feel guilty.
41
My understanding is that the initial violations were zoning violations; the zoning in that particular area does not allow drive-through businesses. And then, of course, there are the local passers-by who don't like the idea that their children might see a lady in a bikini (perish the thought!). So, basically, people are getting two separate issues (zoning & skin) confused. Right?
42
I agree with 35. And there are other reasons for people to not want their kids to see women exploiting themselves/being exploited (depending on how you view it) that don't involve prudishness. 35's first paragraph is one.
43
@40, the first thought that comes to mind is: have you spoken with the baristas? Isn't it a touch insulting to imply these baristas can't make the objective choice to be a bit chilly? And as far as safety goes, I'd rather work there than at a late night convenience store.
@35, I agree, there's nothing new about using female sexuality to sell something and it can be a bit tedious. But in attempting to curtail this, people tend to infantilize the women involved. One of the things I don't understand about certain feminist circles is that they're pro-choice regarding abortion but rail against what women do with their own bodies in other ways (you weren't railing/howling/ranting at all, but I have witnessed such zealous moral outrage before).
We want women to have equal pay and equal status on one hand, but must valiantly protect them from their own self-exploitive tendencies on the other?
@35, I agree, there's nothing new about using female sexuality to sell something and it can be a bit tedious. But in attempting to curtail this, people tend to infantilize the women involved. One of the things I don't understand about certain feminist circles is that they're pro-choice regarding abortion but rail against what women do with their own bodies in other ways (you weren't railing/howling/ranting at all, but I have witnessed such zealous moral outrage before).
We want women to have equal pay and equal status on one hand, but must valiantly protect them from their own self-exploitive tendencies on the other?
44
"progressive feminist position, but rather one of anti-sexuality"
There's a difference? Talking to most fugly Seattle feminists you wouldn't know.
There's a difference? Talking to most fugly Seattle feminists you wouldn't know.
46
I hope Bellevue finds the time to go after all the bikini top clad moms playing with their kids in the water fountains @ Crossroads Park next summer. My kids keep wanting to go back and run around the spouting whale but I'm so mortified by the boobies that I won't take them. It's about protecting my daughters. And if they develop ginormous ones then they are condemned to Hades.
48
@35, yes, it is very possible indeed that the business is more about crass commercialism rather than wholesome fun. And yet, in general, I still have near zero faith in Bellevue public officials' capacity to recognize and appreciate such a distinction. You're pointing to subtle distinctions about social context, and the law is a really bad tool for addressing that.
49
"@44, why such bitterness? With your apparent charm, you must be getting laid every night. "
Bitter? I didn't marry a frigid, white American feminist so I still get blow jobs after 20 yrs of marriage. Trust me, far from bitter.
Bitter? I didn't marry a frigid, white American feminist so I still get blow jobs after 20 yrs of marriage. Trust me, far from bitter.
51
Neither of these ladies strike my fancy.
@43, You're absolutely right, women have always been the driving force behind objectifying their sexuality.
I'm not sure how insulting it is to question the common sense of wearing a bikini virtually outside during a Washington winter. If they want to, that's obviously their choice. But it doesn't mean it's a bright idea.
This whole enterprise is as dorky as Chip & Dale dancing, in my opinion.
@43, You're absolutely right, women have always been the driving force behind objectifying their sexuality.
I'm not sure how insulting it is to question the common sense of wearing a bikini virtually outside during a Washington winter. If they want to, that's obviously their choice. But it doesn't mean it's a bright idea.
This whole enterprise is as dorky as Chip & Dale dancing, in my opinion.
52
@51: I think you mean "Chippendale." Chippendale dancers are cheesy male strippers; Chip & Dale dancing would be squirrels grinding on cheering ladies.
That said, the latter is only a little more disturbing. Most Chippendale-style adverts look extremely gross to me. Lads! Ease off on the steroids, will you?
That said, the latter is only a little more disturbing. Most Chippendale-style adverts look extremely gross to me. Lads! Ease off on the steroids, will you?
53
That's not boobs, that's cleavage. If the rest of their midriff was covered, no one would have anything to say about this. Half of Seattle's coffee places have one or two girls in them that show that much cleavage, or more, on a daily basis.
And why all the concern about 'objectifying, dehumanizing' these girls for their bodies? Is it better that the be 'objectified, dehumanized' for their coffee making services? Because that's what you're doing every time you go into a coffee shop.
'Feminism' is broken because most 'feminists' have turned it into something that has nothing to do with femininity. I for one like the idea of a feminism that celebrates, you know, feminine things... And tits, well, they're pretty feminine. I guess that makes me more of a feminist than the feminists.
And why all the concern about 'objectifying, dehumanizing' these girls for their bodies? Is it better that the be 'objectified, dehumanized' for their coffee making services? Because that's what you're doing every time you go into a coffee shop.
'Feminism' is broken because most 'feminists' have turned it into something that has nothing to do with femininity. I for one like the idea of a feminism that celebrates, you know, feminine things... And tits, well, they're pretty feminine. I guess that makes me more of a feminist than the feminists.
56
"Feminism' is broken because most 'feminists' have turned it into something that has nothing to do with femininity"
only in the US. French women know how to be feminine and strong, independent women. In Seattle feminism means dressing and talking like a fisherman.
only in the US. French women know how to be feminine and strong, independent women. In Seattle feminism means dressing and talking like a fisherman.
57
It's a win-win situation for both men and women, I don't see what's the big fuzz about it.
The world would be a better place with more boobs...
The world would be a better place with more boobs...
58
Pahaha, yeah, thanks 52. Chip & Dale dancing could be cute or creepy depending on the interpretation.
I think these espresso stands, and Hooters joints, are as tacky as Chippendale malarkey.
The world would be a better place with more boobs, but not like this.
I think these espresso stands, and Hooters joints, are as tacky as Chippendale malarkey.
The world would be a better place with more boobs, but not like this.
59
@55, I much prefer the tattooed baristas at Cafe Vita, and not just because they actually know how to make a good latte.
60
@55, I much prefer the tattooed baristas at Cafe Vita, and not just because they actually know how to make a good latte.
61
Do they hire men?
I can't see how gender in the case of this coffee stand would be a boni-fide occupational qualification, then benchmark for discriminating against gender.
If Bellevue really wants to shut them down, they should hire a guy to apply there, not get hired, and then sue the business for discrimination.
This could make an interesting case because the coffee house claims that it is like all the other coffee houses. How, then, could it refuse to hire men when men are employed at coffee houses across the nation? They would have to claim to be different than other coffee establishments, but this defeats their point.
They would have to hire the guy and their business would diminish because everyone who goes to the bikini latte huts goes there for the bikini latte ladies, not speedo coffee dudes. They'd then be forced to become a regular coffee stand again!
Convoluted but fun conjecture.
I can't see how gender in the case of this coffee stand would be a boni-fide occupational qualification, then benchmark for discriminating against gender.
If Bellevue really wants to shut them down, they should hire a guy to apply there, not get hired, and then sue the business for discrimination.
This could make an interesting case because the coffee house claims that it is like all the other coffee houses. How, then, could it refuse to hire men when men are employed at coffee houses across the nation? They would have to claim to be different than other coffee establishments, but this defeats their point.
They would have to hire the guy and their business would diminish because everyone who goes to the bikini latte huts goes there for the bikini latte ladies, not speedo coffee dudes. They'd then be forced to become a regular coffee stand again!
Convoluted but fun conjecture.
62
This place is actually a couple blocks from my house, so I can at least say that they rebuilt the hut from the ground up (hopefully including much more insulation and heaters). As previously mentioned, this is miles from downtown Bellevue, about 10 minutes from Microsoft campus and is actually a fairly diverse neighborhood. I've been past it quite a bit since they opened and even saw the KOMO(?) reporter filming his segment. The ladies inside seemed more amused than anything. The first I heard that the city was trying to shut them down was the sign out front saying that their business was still open while they negotiated with the city.
Which is prologue to the comment that I need to go over there and get a mocha and leave those ladies a big tip. Both because it's cold out, and just to show some neighborhood support. Maybe if they had told the city they were seamstresses it would have worked out better...
Which is prologue to the comment that I need to go over there and get a mocha and leave those ladies a big tip. Both because it's cold out, and just to show some neighborhood support. Maybe if they had told the city they were seamstresses it would have worked out better...
63
@62 kind of hits it... we're sitting here having a conversation about the appropriateness of this business as progressives, but in reality this armchair blog flexing isn't really helping. these women are in danger of losing their jobs in a recession, in a business that would be otherwise thriving if it weren't for prudes in Bellevue. when people are faced with a restricted job market, they're going to make less than commendable choices, but fuck... they deserve our support. not people throwing them under the bus because they're being supposedly exploited. shame on you who can't realize that.
64
Are people throwing the baristas under the bus by questioning the taste of such an establishment?
Thinking these joints suck doesn't necessarily mean it is because of prudish reasons.
Thinking these joints suck doesn't necessarily mean it is because of prudish reasons.
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