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News & ArtsThursday, November 12, 2009
Religion O They Will Know We Are Christians...
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 7:57 AM
...by our hissy fits.
The Catholic Archdiocese of Washington said Wednesday that it will be unable to continue the social service programs it runs for the District if the city doesn't change a proposed same-sex marriage law, a threat that could affect tens of thousands of people the church helps with adoption, homelessness and health care.Under the bill, headed for a D.C. Council vote next month, religious organizations would not be required to perform or make space available for same-sex weddings. But they would have to obey city laws prohibiting discrimination against gay men and lesbians.
The Catholic Church manages numerous city-owned homeless shelters in Washington D.C., serving about 68,000 people a year—not all of them Catholic, not all of them straight. Maybe it's time for the city's homeless shelters to be under new—and secular—management.
2
Yes, because I'm sure Washington D.C. has that kind of money right now. Good idea.
Maybe it's time for the city's homeless shelters to be under new—and secular—management.
Yes, because I'm sure Washington D.C. has that kind of money right now. Good idea.
3
They're had a free ride so far, sucking up all the adulation for being so generous on the public's dime. They never should have been allowed to run the public shelters in the first place.
4
So much for loving the sinner, eh? So, basically, cave to our homophobic demands, or we'll discontinue the charitable activities we provide to everybody. How Christian! Maybe it's not only time for the city's homeless shelters to be under new—and secular—management, but it's also time for Churches to be under new—and non tax-exempt—status.
5
That's the last straw. I think I may never enter a Catholic church again. No more weddings. No more funerals. I'll meet you at the reception afterward.
Also... this sounds like the Georgetown litigation, part 2. In the 80s Georgetown University, a nominally Catholic university, refused to recognize and provide funding to the g/l student group contrary to DC law, which required equal treatment. The University litigated the issue for about 6 years before finally caving and funding the group.
The Catholic hierarchy doesn't get it.
Also... this sounds like the Georgetown litigation, part 2. In the 80s Georgetown University, a nominally Catholic university, refused to recognize and provide funding to the g/l student group contrary to DC law, which required equal treatment. The University litigated the issue for about 6 years before finally caving and funding the group.
The Catholic hierarchy doesn't get it.
6
Wow, so the Catholic Church can now 'add blackmailing people you disagree with and effectively holding the poor and sick hostage' to its repertoire, just like Jesus did.
7
The Diocese hasn't been serving or employing anyone that has been divorced, have they?
That would be a terrible imposition on them wouldn't it??
Divorce is one of those nasty secular little things that they call a mortal sin. I sure hope the Catholics don't compromise their (child rape ambivalent) moral fiber over association with or support to the evils of DIVORCE!
That would be a terrible imposition on them wouldn't it??
Divorce is one of those nasty secular little things that they call a mortal sin. I sure hope the Catholics don't compromise their (child rape ambivalent) moral fiber over association with or support to the evils of DIVORCE!
9
Dang it. Their faith demands that they care for the poor, the needy, the widowed, and the orphaned. It's nice to see they don't read the Bible, but then again they freely admit (at least the American Bishops) that they decide things by human thinking with divine conformation. Hence, they can say things as they please, and the faithful must blindly follow. Shit.
10
This is a good thing. You can't have churches involved in basic services like caring for people in need. You need organizations that put their service mission, not ideology, at the very top of their priorities, and religion doesn't work that way.
Churches could run low-priority, fun things, though, where they can invite whomever they like. Like a picnic, or a prom.
Churches could run low-priority, fun things, though, where they can invite whomever they like. Like a picnic, or a prom.
11
It has already happened in other places, in some in the east coast same sex couples have even tried to sue to be allowed to perform ceremonies in church properties. If same sex marriage is imposed the lawsuits against church institutions will range from sexual expression (no code dress or specific gender representation of oneself) to adoption, and it will end up closing all religious charities and organizations that do not accommodate homosexual demands. It has happened in MA where many churches more noticeably the catholic have been forced to close adoption agencies. While that may please some secularist, it constitutes a clear violation of religious institutions and the people that they serve both spiritually and otherwise i this nation.
12
What a bunch of petulant children. If everyone won't agree to completely subject themselves to every ridiculous religious belief the Catholic Church preaches, then they're just going to take all their toys and stop letting anyone play with them at all. I'm amazed they aren't insisting that they have the right to use the rack and the iron maiden on heretics.
13
Loveschild, why do you trot out that debunked material again and again? Can you not make an argument without resorting to lying?
http://impious.files.wordpress.com/2009/…
http://impious.files.wordpress.com/2009/…
14
You have to look at it from Rome's perspective. If we allow for gay marriage and their priests have to become Episcopalians if they marry then Rome is going to loose a whole bunch of her clergy.
15
@11 -- I assume you're talking about Ocean Grove, and if that's the case, you don't know what they fuck you're talking about.... which is really no surprise, considering YOU are the one saying it.
The Ocean Grove Association wanted property tax exemptions on certain properties that they owned but that did not qualify for religious use exemptions. The only way the property qualified for an exemption under New Jersey law was if it was made available for public use. For years, they held the property out as being available for public use and they were given property tax exemptions as a result. Well, land is either available for public use or it isn't, and if it's available for public use then you can't say "anyone can use it, except when I don't like the people who want to use it," and if it is not available for public use, then you don't get an exemption from paying your property taxes.
In short, despite your side's idiotic and warped attempts to make that case have anything to do with freedom of religion, it was a property tax case, involving a greedy and hypocritical church that wanted to claim the property tax exemption they could get by saying the land was available to the public, but didn't want to have to go through the bother of actually making the land available to the public in order to get that exemption.
The Ocean Grove Association wanted property tax exemptions on certain properties that they owned but that did not qualify for religious use exemptions. The only way the property qualified for an exemption under New Jersey law was if it was made available for public use. For years, they held the property out as being available for public use and they were given property tax exemptions as a result. Well, land is either available for public use or it isn't, and if it's available for public use then you can't say "anyone can use it, except when I don't like the people who want to use it," and if it is not available for public use, then you don't get an exemption from paying your property taxes.
In short, despite your side's idiotic and warped attempts to make that case have anything to do with freedom of religion, it was a property tax case, involving a greedy and hypocritical church that wanted to claim the property tax exemption they could get by saying the land was available to the public, but didn't want to have to go through the bother of actually making the land available to the public in order to get that exemption.
18
Loveschild - dear - pay attention now. In Canada, (yes, you know where Canada is - it is that nation to the north of America ) where smae sex marriage is legal EVERYWHERE, churches are not forced to conduct same sex marriages. Government offices, however, are not permitted to refuse gay couples a marriage licence.
21
Hello All,
Sharpen your arguments with our own dear Loveschild, but remember it's like arguing with a bottle of lube (thanks Meat Weapon). She puts the fun in fundamental. This is US Christian's idea of persecution, compliments of our friends at AFA.
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Boycott Gap, Old Navy and Banana Republic this Christmas
November 11, 2009
Dear Kim,
AFA is calling for a limited two-month boycott of Gap, Old Navy and Banana Republic, the three stores owned by San Francisco-based Gap Inc., over the company’s censorship of the word "Christmas."
The boycott is part of our ongoing campaign to encourage businesses, communities and individuals to put Christ back in Christmas. The boycott runs from November 1 through Christmas Day.
For years, Gap has refused to use the word Christmas in its television commercials, newspaper ads and in-store promotions, despite tens of thousands of consumer requests to recognize Christmas and in spite of repeated requests from AFA to do the same.
Last year, Gap issued this politically-correct statement to Christmas shoppers: "Gap recognizes that many traditions are celebrated throughout this season and we feel it is important to display holiday signage that is inclusive to everyone."
Christmas is special because of Jesus. It's not just a "winter holiday." For millions of Americans the giving and receiving of gifts is in honor of the One who gave Himself. For the Gap to pretend that isn't the foundation of the Christmas season is political correctness at best and religious bigotry at worst.
The Gap is censoring the word Christmas, pure and simple. Yet the company wants all the people who celebrate Christmas to do their shopping at its stores? Until Gap proves it recognizes Christmas by using it in their newspaper, radio, television advertising or in-store signage, the boycott will be promoted.
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They like their gold foil stars for their martyr caps. And, it's a way to fleece people for money. That's right, there was a nice big donate here button at the bottom of the email.
More...
Sharpen your arguments with our own dear Loveschild, but remember it's like arguing with a bottle of lube (thanks Meat Weapon). She puts the fun in fundamental. This is US Christian's idea of persecution, compliments of our friends at AFA.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Unsubscribe Online Version
Boycott Gap, Old Navy and Banana Republic this Christmas
November 11, 2009
Dear Kim,
AFA is calling for a limited two-month boycott of Gap, Old Navy and Banana Republic, the three stores owned by San Francisco-based Gap Inc., over the company’s censorship of the word "Christmas."
The boycott is part of our ongoing campaign to encourage businesses, communities and individuals to put Christ back in Christmas. The boycott runs from November 1 through Christmas Day.
For years, Gap has refused to use the word Christmas in its television commercials, newspaper ads and in-store promotions, despite tens of thousands of consumer requests to recognize Christmas and in spite of repeated requests from AFA to do the same.
Last year, Gap issued this politically-correct statement to Christmas shoppers: "Gap recognizes that many traditions are celebrated throughout this season and we feel it is important to display holiday signage that is inclusive to everyone."
Christmas is special because of Jesus. It's not just a "winter holiday." For millions of Americans the giving and receiving of gifts is in honor of the One who gave Himself. For the Gap to pretend that isn't the foundation of the Christmas season is political correctness at best and religious bigotry at worst.
The Gap is censoring the word Christmas, pure and simple. Yet the company wants all the people who celebrate Christmas to do their shopping at its stores? Until Gap proves it recognizes Christmas by using it in their newspaper, radio, television advertising or in-store signage, the boycott will be promoted.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They like their gold foil stars for their martyr caps. And, it's a way to fleece people for money. That's right, there was a nice big donate here button at the bottom of the email.
22
@15, don't let pesky facts get in the way of Loveschild's religious victim narrative. You'll confuse her. Although I suppose it's unlikely she even bothered to read what you wrote anyway.
23
@22 -- yeah, I don't know what I was thinking, attempting to use reason and logic to explain unimportant little things like facts and the law to an ignorant bigot like Hateschild! How silly of me!
25
@ 21,
Snort! As if the AFA's glassy-eyed supplicants shop anywhere other than JC Penney and Wal-Mart.
Snort! As if the AFA's glassy-eyed supplicants shop anywhere other than JC Penney and Wal-Mart.
27
“I’ll kill every motherfucking last one of them if I have to,” added Father Michael O’Donnell while brandishing his AK-47, “you let those queers marry and there’ll be blood on your hands!”
28
I'm no fan of the tax exemption for churches. However, removing that exemption would be a clusterfuck of colossal proportions. Look at what happened under Bush's faith-based initiative. Almost all that money went to Christian organizations, heavily weighted toward evangelical groups. It was a way for Bush to buy off his most ardent supporters. Remove the tax exemption, and you're going to see the same thing. Unitarian churches will get taxed, Rick Warren won't.
29
Well, the fewer kids and vulnerable people the CC gets near, the better.
This'll presumably reduce the rate of abuse in DC.
This'll presumably reduce the rate of abuse in DC.
30
No religious organization should be tax exempt. The government of a state that is supposed to have separation of religion and government should not be forcing its people to subsidize the religious activities of any group by giving them exemption from taxation.
31
Dan, you're being intolerant. Why should the Catholic church be forced to do the work of the lord Jesus Christ when the government allows people to do things the church doesn't like? You know things like gay marriage, premarital sex, sodomy, working on Sunday, eating shelfish etc etc. If the government doesn't absolutely prohibit everyone from doing anything the Catholic Church disagrees with then why should they have to do the job Jesus told them to do? After all, we all know that Jesus didn't do shit for the poor until the Romans changed all of their laws to Jewish laws. Don't be so intolerant.
32
Loveschild says:
"It has already happened in other places, in some in the east coast same sex couples have even tried to sue to be allowed to perform ceremonies in church properties."
Imagine...EQUALITY! What can be worse??
"It has already happened in other places, in some in the east coast same sex couples have even tried to sue to be allowed to perform ceremonies in church properties."
Imagine...EQUALITY! What can be worse??
33
This is a classic tactic where the opposition (The church) threatens to make things worse for those totally uninvolved with the issue ( the homeless etc.) so the losers will blame the objected group ( the gays) for their misfortune not the church.
"If only those gays hadn't made a fuss I would have some place to help me out but they pissed off the nice church so it's their fault". Talk about mean and petty.
I'm glad I'm not catholic anymore. This is the opposite of what Pope JP II was trying to do with the church.
"If only those gays hadn't made a fuss I would have some place to help me out but they pissed off the nice church so it's their fault". Talk about mean and petty.
I'm glad I'm not catholic anymore. This is the opposite of what Pope JP II was trying to do with the church.
34
What a bunch of stupid slongs. They pulled the same manipulating shit with health care reform. You don't give us our way then poor people can't have any health care. So the poor don't get help at the expense of women and gays. I guess that's the fault of religious conservatives. They help create the poor in the first place why should women and gay folk pay the price. Time to call the renaissance fashionista shlongs on their manipulating crap. What goes down as a result is their fault. The rest of us will have to do a lot more to help out those in need, but it is time for these perverts to lose power.
35
@33 agreed. I really hope that someday there will be a round of this awful, awful game where people point at the people who pulled the rug out from under them rather than blaming the interior decorator for their bare floors.
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