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News & ArtsTuesday, November 10, 2009
Crime The End Is Near for the D.C. Sniper
Posted by Charles Mudede on Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:50 AM
It's more and more looking like this is the last day of John Allen Muhammad's life.
For three weeks in 2002, John Allen Muhammad led a two-man sniper team that struck on his orders, claimed 10 lives and deliberately terrorized Virginia, Maryland and Washington.Though I stand near the middle of the political spectrum when it comes to the question of capital punishment (certain places need it, others don't), I firmly believe this is far from right:
"Call me God," police were told in notes left at the scene of two attacks.
He is set to be executed by injection Tuesday for the slaying of Dean Harold Meyers, 53, shot in the head from long distance at a Manassas-area service station the evening of Oct. 9, 2002.
(TPM News) ...Cheryll Witz is one of several victims' relatives who were going to watch the execution. Malvo confessed that, at Muhammad's direction, he shot her father, Jerry Taylor, on a Tucson, Ariz., golf course in March 2002.The relatives of the victims should not be offered by the state front row tickets to an execution. This is not a private matter; it's a universal matter. It's not about you, it's about the society as a whole.
1
Another scumbag bites the dust. Bye-bye, fuck-face.
And oh, Charles, it almost goes without saying, but you're full of shit. The victims' families have every right to attend the execution and receive some closure in their lives. It's intensely personal for them.
And oh, Charles, it almost goes without saying, but you're full of shit. The victims' families have every right to attend the execution and receive some closure in their lives. It's intensely personal for them.
2
YA WHERE MY TIX HEGEL WULD AGREE THIS SHOULD BE PUBLICK SO WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM THE HEROES AND VILLAINS OF HISTORY RIGTE RITE RITE????
WHERE MY TIX AT? WHATS REALLY REALLY GOOD?
WHERE ARE THE FUCKING TICKETS. THIS SNIPER DOOD. HE BAD MAN. WE ALL BAD PEEEPS. CREW, WE GOT A LOT OF EM. MATTA FAX GURU START POPPIN EM.
WHERE MY TIX AT? WHATS REALLY REALLY GOOD?
WHERE ARE THE FUCKING TICKETS. THIS SNIPER DOOD. HE BAD MAN. WE ALL BAD PEEEPS. CREW, WE GOT A LOT OF EM. MATTA FAX GURU START POPPIN EM.
3
It is an intensely personal matter for the victims' families but capital punishment seldom offers the sense of closure they were looking to obtain.
4
God, I wish we could remove the word "closure" from the vocabulary. It's a stupid term for something that never happens. There's never closure. The best thing you can hope for is to learn to move on.
A dear friend of mine was killed in a stupid, violent, and very public way many years ago. I can't imagine any of her family wanting to witness the execution of her killer, and I know I certainly wouldn't. I can't imagine how that would make anyone of normal intelligence feel any better. It's sure not going to bring the person they killed back.
A dear friend of mine was killed in a stupid, violent, and very public way many years ago. I can't imagine any of her family wanting to witness the execution of her killer, and I know I certainly wouldn't. I can't imagine how that would make anyone of normal intelligence feel any better. It's sure not going to bring the person they killed back.
5
she wants to see it let her see it. it does not harm me, it does not harm you except that capital punishment is barbaric. which is ok because we're barbarians.
6
Good Morning Charles,
As you know, I reluctantly favor Capital Punishment. However, when applied I believe it's universal AND personal. Universal in the sense that the STATE was violated (laws broken to protect its citizens) and the perpetrator punished. Personal in the sense that a victim or in this case victims were murdered and family and friends affected. Whether one believes it (CP) is a deterrant or not, the state (in this case, Virginia) allows witnesses to the execution to ensure sentence is carried out. The fact that some victims' families feel closure or even vengance upon viewing the execution is superfluous (BTW, they may not feel anything) and that once sentence is carried out, Mr. Muhammad will never kill again.
As you know, I reluctantly favor Capital Punishment. However, when applied I believe it's universal AND personal. Universal in the sense that the STATE was violated (laws broken to protect its citizens) and the perpetrator punished. Personal in the sense that a victim or in this case victims were murdered and family and friends affected. Whether one believes it (CP) is a deterrant or not, the state (in this case, Virginia) allows witnesses to the execution to ensure sentence is carried out. The fact that some victims' families feel closure or even vengance upon viewing the execution is superfluous (BTW, they may not feel anything) and that once sentence is carried out, Mr. Muhammad will never kill again.
7
Executions should be televised to as big an audience as possible. Maybe at halftime of the Super Bowl.
8
There is no middle ground on capital punishment. It's wrong to take a life except in self-defense. Our prison system has many problems, but the ability of John Allen Muhammed to reach out from behind his bars and strike out at us is pretty non-existent, so self-defense doesn't really apply here. And at the risk of invoking godwin's law, I'll say generally that this goes for even the worst mass-murderers in history. Prison, not execution, solves the problems identically but without making us all into murderers too.
And allowing state-sponsored murder to be a spectator sport is beyond barbaric. And Max, we may be barbarians, but the struggle to stay above our nature is always worth it.
And allowing state-sponsored murder to be a spectator sport is beyond barbaric. And Max, we may be barbarians, but the struggle to stay above our nature is always worth it.
9
If it is a universal matter, about society as a whole, then it should be done in an open stadium and broadcast on national television.
And as far as victims' families witnessing, that comes down to the role played by capital punishment. Is it done for deterrence, vengeance, or simply closure? I challenge anyone to cite statistics indicating any deterring effect. The argument for closure can be made (he's no longer out there and will never shoot anyone again), but it's a two-edged sword; we have plenty of instances of people wrongly put to death. The only solid reason I can think of is vengeance, that some crimes are so bad we need to kill the criminal to get even - here it certainly makes sense to invite the victims' families...
Vengeance doesn't really help or fix anything though. Blood for blood is just a continuation of violence. Given all this and the fact that the lengthy appeals process (necessary to keep wrongful executions a rare occurrence) makes executions more expensive than life in prison, why not just abolish it?
And as far as victims' families witnessing, that comes down to the role played by capital punishment. Is it done for deterrence, vengeance, or simply closure? I challenge anyone to cite statistics indicating any deterring effect. The argument for closure can be made (he's no longer out there and will never shoot anyone again), but it's a two-edged sword; we have plenty of instances of people wrongly put to death. The only solid reason I can think of is vengeance, that some crimes are so bad we need to kill the criminal to get even - here it certainly makes sense to invite the victims' families...
Vengeance doesn't really help or fix anything though. Blood for blood is just a continuation of violence. Given all this and the fact that the lengthy appeals process (necessary to keep wrongful executions a rare occurrence) makes executions more expensive than life in prison, why not just abolish it?
10
What I find most strange is how often, when discussing this issue, people leave out the damage witnessing an execution causes.
As some of you have already noted, far from offering any semblance of closure or peace, it's just horrifying to witness a death. The victim's family, who may have just stopped having nightmares about the original crime, now show up to the state-sanctioned murder and lo and behold, have a new set of nightmares to deal with.
Families have been diagnosed with PTSD for having witnessed lethal injections. It makes most people--no matter how much they originally think they want capital punishment, and no matter how much they want to witness it--mentally and emotionally worse.
Please note I'm not (here) coming down on one side or the other in terms of morality or right and wrong. But the simple claim that capital punishment somehow helps the friends and family of the victim is untrue.
As some of you have already noted, far from offering any semblance of closure or peace, it's just horrifying to witness a death. The victim's family, who may have just stopped having nightmares about the original crime, now show up to the state-sanctioned murder and lo and behold, have a new set of nightmares to deal with.
Families have been diagnosed with PTSD for having witnessed lethal injections. It makes most people--no matter how much they originally think they want capital punishment, and no matter how much they want to witness it--mentally and emotionally worse.
Please note I'm not (here) coming down on one side or the other in terms of morality or right and wrong. But the simple claim that capital punishment somehow helps the friends and family of the victim is untrue.
11
criminal justice’s role in society should be to keep the population safe and to deter future abhorrent crimes. capital punishment does no do this. it never has, it never will.
capital punishment puts civilized society in the business of revenge, and revenge is not something we should be paying for. to quench our primal thirst for revenge is silly. it is no different than the old medieval fairs when people attended public burnings and hangings; and applauded when the victim/criminal burned or had his head chopped.
are muhamad and malvo scumbags? absolutrly. do some of these people deserve to die? Surely they do. What they did is/was sick and brutal, and if it was your family member you would want his or her death, but society and the criminal justice system should not be in the business of getting revenge for the villagers or newspaper commentators with pitch forks.
capital punishment is nothing more than the state committing premeditated murder to quench society’s thirst for revenge.
and as an added bonus, lets not forget that we also live in a nation where innocent people have been put to death.
capital punishment puts civilized society in the business of revenge, and revenge is not something we should be paying for. to quench our primal thirst for revenge is silly. it is no different than the old medieval fairs when people attended public burnings and hangings; and applauded when the victim/criminal burned or had his head chopped.
are muhamad and malvo scumbags? absolutrly. do some of these people deserve to die? Surely they do. What they did is/was sick and brutal, and if it was your family member you would want his or her death, but society and the criminal justice system should not be in the business of getting revenge for the villagers or newspaper commentators with pitch forks.
capital punishment is nothing more than the state committing premeditated murder to quench society’s thirst for revenge.
and as an added bonus, lets not forget that we also live in a nation where innocent people have been put to death.
12
Albert Camus wrote an excellent essay against capitol punishment, "Reflections on the Guillotine," and related how his father had gone to witness a public execution and came back completely shaken and nauseous. Witnessing executions isn't for everyone.
13
All the absract moralizing doesn't even get to the point that capital punishments costs us bazillions in special jails, muli million dollar defense fees paid by the taxpayer, twenty years of appeals, did you know in Washington State hte State Supreme Court has nine judges writing a 100 page opinion every time there is a capital case?
For whatever marginal deterrent value it has, this is a government "program" that does not work. It exists because it provides jobs to massive numbers of government employees. It's waste, pure and simple. If we lock them up and throw away the key the families get as much closure as they get from an execution, which in reality is, not much, seeing how each of us can even remember the time in second grade that Billy took our lunch money and we haven't even gotten over THAT.
For whatever marginal deterrent value it has, this is a government "program" that does not work. It exists because it provides jobs to massive numbers of government employees. It's waste, pure and simple. If we lock them up and throw away the key the families get as much closure as they get from an execution, which in reality is, not much, seeing how each of us can even remember the time in second grade that Billy took our lunch money and we haven't even gotten over THAT.
14
This is an interesting thought. On some levels I agree. The death penalty is about justice for all. Safety for everyone.
But on another level...of course justice here is more important for the relatives. Or more personal.
Not sure what to think.
But on another level...of course justice here is more important for the relatives. Or more personal.
Not sure what to think.
16
Your logic makes absolutely no sense in my view. The death penalty is about nothing BUT revenge. It is the act of taking the personal rage and desire for retribution into the public sphere. It completely makes sense for the families of victims to watch...the whole idea of the death penalty is based on the idea of an eye-for-an-eye (and don't give me this bullshit about a "deterrent"...statistics comprehensively show it deters nothing).
As badly as the victim's loved ones might want revenge, however, one has to ask if it's in the best interests of our society to give our justice system--an immensely flawed and imperfect thing--the power to kill. Personally, I have no interest in giving the state permission to perform revenge killings. And that's exactly what it is...simple retribution according to outdated, anti-humanist dogma.
As badly as the victim's loved ones might want revenge, however, one has to ask if it's in the best interests of our society to give our justice system--an immensely flawed and imperfect thing--the power to kill. Personally, I have no interest in giving the state permission to perform revenge killings. And that's exactly what it is...simple retribution according to outdated, anti-humanist dogma.
17
I agree that executions should be open to all for viewing. It's our state that's putting this man to death. We should all be witnesses.
I am opposed to the death penalty. It's expensive. It does not deter crime. It validates the notion that death is a means to an end, an instrument that can be wielded by people against other people. In other words, it makes murder more acceptable.
That said, I might make an exception for treason, and what the DC sniper did borders on that. He ripped at the very fabric of our society, and perhaps to repair that tear, he needs to be expunged.
I won't shed any tears.
I am opposed to the death penalty. It's expensive. It does not deter crime. It validates the notion that death is a means to an end, an instrument that can be wielded by people against other people. In other words, it makes murder more acceptable.
That said, I might make an exception for treason, and what the DC sniper did borders on that. He ripped at the very fabric of our society, and perhaps to repair that tear, he needs to be expunged.
I won't shed any tears.
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