Friday, November 6, 2009
News There Is No Morality Without Religion, Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father, O They Will Know We Are Christians By Our, Etc.
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:46 AM
Sad:
Family and friends of a Fayetteville family were expected to gather at Snyder Memorial Baptist Church Friday for a shared memorial service. Police said William "Billy" Maxwell Jr., 47, shot and killed his wife, Kathryn Maxwell, 43, daughter Connor Maxwell, 17, and son Cameron Maxwell, 15, before turning the gun on himself Monday evening.The family was well known at the church, where, friends said, the siblings were involved in the youth ministry and the youth choir, and their father was a deacon.
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1
what is sad is that Dan condemns religion every time someone who attends a church does something wrong.
3
@1 I don't think you understand the point he trying to make. The point is merely attending a church does not make you a more moral/ethical person than some one who does not. Common thought is that spiritual leaders are some how better than normal people--but they are just as capable of committing heinous acts as anyone and just susceptible to abusing power as anyone in role of authority.
4
It's a shame these Christians are so repressed that they have to resort to violence. It really is better to adamantly voice your closeminded and hateful philosophy.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sexyhotnesss…
These Jewish parents are an great example.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sexyhotnesss…
These Jewish parents are an great example.
5
One of the comments from a family friend quoted in the WRAL-TV story said that "Billy Maxwell had recently expressed concern about the direction the country was heading...", and that he "always wanted to be in control of things".
I'll bet he watched Glenn Beck every day as well.
This would make for a good Law & Order episode where the D.A. goes after the cable TV talking head for inciting the homicide/suicide.
I'll bet he watched Glenn Beck every day as well.
This would make for a good Law & Order episode where the D.A. goes after the cable TV talking head for inciting the homicide/suicide.
6
3
Those are strawmen in Dan's fetid bigoted hate filled mind.
Church goers describe Church as a hospital for sinners, and believe that people need religion BECAUSE they are IMPERFECT.
The arrogant assumption of superiority and having all the answers rest with Dan.
Those are strawmen in Dan's fetid bigoted hate filled mind.
Church goers describe Church as a hospital for sinners, and believe that people need religion BECAUSE they are IMPERFECT.
The arrogant assumption of superiority and having all the answers rest with Dan.
7
Troll @ 6,
It's pretty damn hard to not feel superior to a group of people that tell you that you are an abomination and going to burn in hell because a book written by men thousands of years ago told them so.
Maybe church is helpful to some people, but I always thought it was boring, redundant and brain-achingly opposed to logic. I was thrilled when my family stopped forcing me to go. I would have stopped at 8, but had to white knuckle it till I was 16.
It's pretty damn hard to not feel superior to a group of people that tell you that you are an abomination and going to burn in hell because a book written by men thousands of years ago told them so.
Maybe church is helpful to some people, but I always thought it was boring, redundant and brain-achingly opposed to logic. I was thrilled when my family stopped forcing me to go. I would have stopped at 8, but had to white knuckle it till I was 16.
8
Hey, folks. Remember the Internet Rule #1 and keep It holy:
Don't feed the trolls.
The point that Dan is making is that religion != proper morality.
If anything, atheists tend to have more consistent (if not better) morals in that they don't have to lean upon supernatural reasons to have them; they have to depend upon rational rules, not religious ones.
Don't feed the trolls.
The point that Dan is making is that religion != proper morality.
If anything, atheists tend to have more consistent (if not better) morals in that they don't have to lean upon supernatural reasons to have them; they have to depend upon rational rules, not religious ones.
9
Why are they sad and mourning for this guy and his family... they're all in heaven now, right? He only spared them from the possibility of future sinning.
10
@9,
Murder of his family aside, the guy committed suicide. That earns him a one-way ticket to hell.
Murder of his family aside, the guy committed suicide. That earns him a one-way ticket to hell.
12
7
8
you girls are making the trolls point.
Devout Godless Heathen Secular Humanists consider themselves superior to nonbelievers.
Like Aryan Nazis looked down on Jews.
Dan doesn't post this because he thinks the Christians are too uppity, @3, he posts it because he hates them. all of them.
8
you girls are making the trolls point.
Devout Godless Heathen Secular Humanists consider themselves superior to nonbelievers.
Like Aryan Nazis looked down on Jews.
Dan doesn't post this because he thinks the Christians are too uppity, @3, he posts it because he hates them. all of them.
13
Holy Shit! As someone sentenced to 3-5 in Fayetteville, I didn't expect to see this news making it back to the Slog. LOL
That is all.
That is all.
14
@ 12, no we don't. We just feel superior to hypocrites. Not all Christians are hypocrites - look at Kim in Portland - but if you think you're Christian, let me tell you that anyone expressing the thoughts you have is not.
15
14
Which naughty thoughts were those, Matt?
We've never claimed to be Christian but are curious what troubles you-
is it that anyone who disagrees with you is a 'hypocrite', and the only 'good Christians' are the ones who agree with you?
Which naughty thoughts were those, Matt?
We've never claimed to be Christian but are curious what troubles you-
is it that anyone who disagrees with you is a 'hypocrite', and the only 'good Christians' are the ones who agree with you?
16
Wow, just watch the information flying over the heads of believers who do what they do best--reject reality and substitute their own.
Dan didn't say anything. He's posting data about religious people who make religion a big part of their lives, and/or are leaders in the religious community.
He doesn't have to say anything, yet of course you guys get pissed off about reality. It's more comforting to pretend that someone is stating an opinion about your dearly held beliefs, and then assert that because you believe stuff, you get some kind of status as an injured party.
Very, very sad.
Dan didn't say anything. He's posting data about religious people who make religion a big part of their lives, and/or are leaders in the religious community.
He doesn't have to say anything, yet of course you guys get pissed off about reality. It's more comforting to pretend that someone is stating an opinion about your dearly held beliefs, and then assert that because you believe stuff, you get some kind of status as an injured party.
Very, very sad.
17
16
"There Is No Morality Without Religion, Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father, O They Will Know We Are Christians By Our, Etc."
"There Is No Morality Without Religion, Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father, O They Will Know We Are Christians By Our, Etc."
18
@#3: It appears you don't want to accept #1's very valid point. It's distasteful of Dan Savage to use this family's tragedy as yet another cheap excuse to mock people of Christian faith. But he does this all the time. It's a shame that an otherwise intelligent, creative person spends so much of his energy this way. It is beneath his dignity... what's left of it anyway.
20
I really wish murder-suicides would just do the second part first. Oh, and leave a note, not that we care, but just to make things tidy.
21
When the dominant group in a society considers itself (and loudly proclaims itself) morally superior to all others, those outside the dominant group get to point and laugh when members of the dominant group do things heinously opposite of their proclaimed moral standards. That's just life.
22
I live in the Fayetteville community. This man was very well known and from what all who knew him said, he was a good man. Lately he did start showing some signs of mental illness...he was NOT WELL. I think it is really easy for some stranger not from around here to make some ignorant comment about our community's tragedy-one that has rocked the entire community-but let me tell you that no one, I repeat NO ONE I have talked to has said anything negative about Mr. Maxwell. Only compassion. Even his father in law was quoted as saying that if anyone had the right to be mad at Billy it was him, and he wasn't mad. So how about not commenting on things you don't know about-or if you feel the need, how about doing a wee bit of research first so it won't be so obvious you don't understand what you are talking about?
And ps. let us all work to eliminate the stigma that still goes with seeking mental health treatment. My belief is that stigma is what really killed this family.
And ps. let us all work to eliminate the stigma that still goes with seeking mental health treatment. My belief is that stigma is what really killed this family.
23
I live in the Fayetteville community. This man was very well known and from what all who knew him said, he was a good man. Lately he did start showing some signs of mental illness...he was NOT WELL. I think it is really easy for some stranger not from around here to make some ignorant comment about our community's tragedy-one that has rocked the entire community-but let me tell you that no one, I repeat NO ONE I have talked to has said anything negative about Mr. Maxwell. Only compassion. Even his father in law was quoted as saying that if anyone had the right to be mad at Billy it was him, and he wasn't mad. So how about not commenting on things you don't know about-or if you feel the need, how about doing a wee bit of research first so it won't be so obvious you don't understand what you are talking about?
And ps. let us all work to eliminate the stigma that still goes with seeking mental health treatment. My belief is that stigma is what really killed this family.
And ps. let us all work to eliminate the stigma that still goes with seeking mental health treatment. My belief is that stigma is what really killed this family.
24
@22 and @23
bit confused about the double posting under two different names...
... but you make an excellent point.
Mental illness can affect anyone - believers and atheist both. I hope this family's tragedy can have some silver lining in alerting others to reach out for help. And for their friends and neighbours to be more accepting of the need for that help.
bit confused about the double posting under two different names...
... but you make an excellent point.
Mental illness can affect anyone - believers and atheist both. I hope this family's tragedy can have some silver lining in alerting others to reach out for help. And for their friends and neighbours to be more accepting of the need for that help.
25
Mental illness or not, I can't agree with Dan using this news about a massacre of a family to promote why children don't need two different sex parents.
Come on Dan Savage, show some class. Using this family's tragedy for what is essentially a political message shows the kind of disrespect and ignorance of a republican - you should know better.
Come on Dan Savage, show some class. Using this family's tragedy for what is essentially a political message shows the kind of disrespect and ignorance of a republican - you should know better.
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