Thursday, November 5, 2009
Homo What She Said
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:52 AM
mcjoan at DailyKos:
[While] it's not official yet, affirmation of Washington's "everything but marriage" law seems assured. R-71 affirms the expanded protections for domestic partners granted by Washington State lawmakers last year. It's not full-fledged marriage, but it does mark Washington as the first state in America to approve a gay-equality measure by the will of the people. I know it's small comfort to everyone who worked so tirelessly to defeat hate in Maine, but hopefully knowing that there's a corner of the country where hate couldn't prevail with Americans will provide some comfort, and some hope.
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1
In other news, Pastor Hutch has given a rather emphatic declaration that there will be an initiative to overturn ALL domestic partnership rights next year.
3
...but in good news, there was a contraflow this year in the post-election night trends on ballot returns.
You almost always get a 3-4% shift toward a more conservative aspect, but it seems the state shifted a bit over 4% toward approving the measure, which is why we were up nicely as of last night.
You almost always get a 3-4% shift toward a more conservative aspect, but it seems the state shifted a bit over 4% toward approving the measure, which is why we were up nicely as of last night.
4
BTW - Domestic Partnerships in CA have all the same rights as married couples since January of 2007 - All the same rights - Just do not call it marriage - Know the country you live in!!!
8
Thanks She and Dan. I've been very happy with the election results in Washington. I've also been very happy with the election results in Washington. And when I think about it, I've been very happy about the election results in Washington. I'm glad I live here (R-71, I-1033, Constantine). Maine is disappointing for me, but not like Prop 8 last year. Though it's still hard to see a dishonest campaign run by people with mental problems win, it doesn't feel the same this time. The pro-gay side ran a well-organized campaign and had a great message with their ads. It was uphill in an off-year and there just may not of been enough votes (but not for too much lack of trying). It was an inspiringly small margin of victory. I am positive the Maine legislature will pass marriage equality again like they did with their previous anti-discrimination ordinances, and it will be voted on again and eventually prevail at the polls (even though it shouldn't have to...). More young people now will be older and voting and the older people will die off. I feel hopeful about New England's future. I just wish more people could feel good about what happened in Washington state.
9
this is a Great Victory!
we barely held on to what we already had by 2% beating underfunded nutjob out-of-state kooks we outspent 4-1!
it's a Queer RenaSéance!
we barely held on to what we already had by 2% beating underfunded nutjob out-of-state kooks we outspent 4-1!
it's a Queer RenaSéance!
10
Baconcat @ 1: I don't think they can touch the part of it that was in R-71 for two years unless a supermajority of the legislature approves it.
13
QUICKLY EVERYONE volunteer in your local school to teach what ever it was THEY said would be taught! Quickly now, the little children are waiting!
16
keep up the good work; this is a victory.
BTW the straights voting against gay equality are not really motivated by hate -- not the 20% of them that are presiadable to our side. They are full of fear and ignorance and they don't know gays personally. I will bet that you could write an algorithm accurately predicting gay rights support as a factor of number of gays the person knows personally, no. of gay couples, and no. of gay couples with children that the straight person knows personally. The meaning of this is that yes, the continued campaigning and personal stories and one on one contacts WILL change states like Maine by a few points in the next few years.
It's a comfort level, knowledge breeds compassion and empathy, and the fact is gays have had to be in the closet and flee many of the more rural parts of our country and lots of these straights don't personally know gays so ALL their information is from the professional hate and fear mongers.
No one could have imagined being this close in Maine and winning in Washington just 5 years ago.
Keep it up we are doing good work!
BTW the straights voting against gay equality are not really motivated by hate -- not the 20% of them that are presiadable to our side. They are full of fear and ignorance and they don't know gays personally. I will bet that you could write an algorithm accurately predicting gay rights support as a factor of number of gays the person knows personally, no. of gay couples, and no. of gay couples with children that the straight person knows personally. The meaning of this is that yes, the continued campaigning and personal stories and one on one contacts WILL change states like Maine by a few points in the next few years.
It's a comfort level, knowledge breeds compassion and empathy, and the fact is gays have had to be in the closet and flee many of the more rural parts of our country and lots of these straights don't personally know gays so ALL their information is from the professional hate and fear mongers.
No one could have imagined being this close in Maine and winning in Washington just 5 years ago.
Keep it up we are doing good work!
17
The (older ) electorate gets hung up on the word marriage. And in truth, gay marriage is a separate but equal institution -- two yins without a yang, and vice versa. But same sex couples have the same need for their relationship to be recognized as a legally-binding institution.
18
@4 -- That may be true in theory, but in New Jersey Civil Unions are also supposed to grant all the rights of marriage except for the name "marriage", and they have been an abysmal failure. Hospitals which routinely permit husbands to visit their wives and vice-versa, frequently refuse the same courtesy to Civil Union partners. Companies that provide health insurance benefits to the spouses of their employees frequently deny the same to their employee's Civil Union partners. When people protest that they have a Civil Union, they have often been told that if the state *really* intended for for a Civil Union to be treated the same as a marriage, they would have given it the same name.
And the real kicker? There have been numerous accounts of people who were denied benefits on account of their Civil Union but were then extended those exact same benefits after getting *MARRIED* in Massachusetts or Canada or somewhere else that has marriage equality. The marriage itself may not have any legal standing in the eyes of the state government, but is has tremendous meaning to ordinary people. The word itself has meaning, the right to call your relationship a marriage is not just an insignificant matter of semantics. Until same-sex couples have the right to call their relationships "marriages", then it is a LIE to say that the relationship they do have come with "all the same rights" as marriage.
And the real kicker? There have been numerous accounts of people who were denied benefits on account of their Civil Union but were then extended those exact same benefits after getting *MARRIED* in Massachusetts or Canada or somewhere else that has marriage equality. The marriage itself may not have any legal standing in the eyes of the state government, but is has tremendous meaning to ordinary people. The word itself has meaning, the right to call your relationship a marriage is not just an insignificant matter of semantics. Until same-sex couples have the right to call their relationships "marriages", then it is a LIE to say that the relationship they do have come with "all the same rights" as marriage.
19
The fact remains that no matter what tactics were used to deceive the voters in WA (and there were many, including intimidation) ME was where the clear and concise attack on traditional marriage was being fought. Since the intention in Maine was that of eroding marriage and clearly instituting gay marriage (as opposed to the Trojan horse in WA), a rejection of the people of Maine should be a clear signal that when people are told the truth and allowed to vote about gay marriage then they reject it.
I'm sure that when time comes for the next fight here (hopefuly by next year in a couple of other states), when the gay side goes for the final blow to the institution of marriage in WA for example, it will be a quite different story. But for now I for one, will take this big victory in Maine and work in the next upcoming battles, learning that telling the truth to the people will always make them vote for their conscience.
There's just not a moment of rest in this fight until every state is secured, and if anything good can come out of this, that is that the pro-traditional marriage side can use WA and VT as examples of Trojan horses used for gay marriage, so if that will make the rest of the states who have yet not secured marriage realize what the future holds for them then it's a win win.
21
Lovechild, the vote in Maine isn't the end of it. Do you really not get that? The state legislature can just pass a similar bill again. No state will ever be gay marriage proof, EVER. Gay people are not going away, and we will not stop demanding our rights. We'll go back again, and again, and again, as many times as it takes. Your side is dwindling, while our side is gaining momentum. The Maine question just barely passed. Five years ago, it wouldn't have been close.
You will lose this in the long run.
You will lose this in the long run.
22
If LC acknowledges:
a: losses in Massachusetts,
b. polling data on young demographics,
c. Canadian or Spanish experiences
ze will have to also acknowledge ze has lost. And perhaps ze would have to wonder why ze is really homophobic ... and perhaps look at hir issues...
That is why ze doesn't acknowledge any loss for hir side, anywhere.
a: losses in Massachusetts,
b. polling data on young demographics,
c. Canadian or Spanish experiences
ze will have to also acknowledge ze has lost. And perhaps ze would have to wonder why ze is really homophobic ... and perhaps look at hir issues...
That is why ze doesn't acknowledge any loss for hir side, anywhere.
23
@20 Bacon, I would love nothing more than for your side to use MA as a shining example of the 'benefits' of gay marriage in the upcoming campaign that's already on the works.
You know, in the calls I made to ME i used the examples of IO, VT, NH and MA and you know Bacon, the one that resonated the most (and not in a good way) with the people of Maine was that of Massachusetts.
So by all means make Massachusetts the face of gay marriage, I know i plan to do so.
You know, in the calls I made to ME i used the examples of IO, VT, NH and MA and you know Bacon, the one that resonated the most (and not in a good way) with the people of Maine was that of Massachusetts.
So by all means make Massachusetts the face of gay marriage, I know i plan to do so.
25
Quick, get the gay missionaries in the schools so we can brain wash those children into horrible thoughts of equality and love!
26
Hateschild, even the states that have amended their constitutions in the past decade aren't "protected" from the "menace" of two men or two women having the right to get married. Demographics don't lie. Every day, more of the over-65 set kicks the bucket and more of the under-18 set come of age and gain the right to vote. How long will it take? 10 years? Maybe 20? However long it takes, the fight won't stop until the side of decency, justice and equality wins and the side of hatred, ignorance and fear loses.
In the words of Thomas Jefferson: "The ground of liberty is to be gained by inches, and we must be contented to secure what we can get from time to time and eternally press forward for what is yet to get. It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good."
In the words of Thomas Jefferson: "The ground of liberty is to be gained by inches, and we must be contented to secure what we can get from time to time and eternally press forward for what is yet to get. It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good."
27
26, To add to what you said. Many states had bans against interracial marriage in their constitutions, and those bans were all wiped out in an instant by the Loving v. Virginia decision. It's only a matter of time.
28
But Rob, that was RACISM!!!!1!!!1!
Remember, gay is a behavior, not an immutable trait, which is why all the straight bigots like LC run full tilt boogie to straighthood after experimenting in their teens... Isn't that how you chose, LC?
Remember, gay is a behavior, not an immutable trait, which is why all the straight bigots like LC run full tilt boogie to straighthood after experimenting in their teens... Isn't that how you chose, LC?
29
@27 - that was activist judges legislating from the bench. Interracial marriage is wrong. Duh.
Oh, and @16 - what does "presiadable" mean? I couldn't find it in the dictionary.
Oh, and @16 - what does "presiadable" mean? I couldn't find it in the dictionary.
30
To answer questions - #12 the bill was passed by the legislature and never challenged. Thank you Mark Leno!! My hero in CA. Equal rights for Register Domestic Partnerships was challenged and is always being challenged - I think it was in 2008 there was a challenge about the language about property transfer rights and how that should not have to be included in the language of the RDP bill so it should be thrown out - that lost. There is an initiative in CA to get on the 2010 ballot to make Divorce illegal. Now that is protecting marriage :> #18 - You are correct it is hard to locally enforce the state law in places like Fresno where a woman was not granted access with her children to see her partner and thier mother in the hospital, but the law has been upheld many times over and over again even during the Prop 8 battles. I am not an offciando on this issue, but this is what I have been informed of
31
Tell us all about this "intimidation," Loveschild. With names, dates, and credible media or police reports, please.
Your obsessive, slavering hatred does not give you earthly or divine providence to lie.
Your obsessive, slavering hatred does not give you earthly or divine providence to lie.
32
28, Racism, homophobia, it only takes a court decision to reverse it, even state constitutional bans.
33
@23:
That report is here: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/mardiv.htm
Provisional data from 2008 indicates that the Massachusetts divorce rate has dropped from 2.3 per thousand in 2007 down to about 2.0 per thousand for 2008. What does that mean ? To get a sense of perspective consider that the last time the US national divorce rate was 2.0 per thousand (people) was 1940. You read that correctly. The Massachusetts divorce rate is now at about where the US divorce rate was the year before the United States entered World War Two.
That report is here: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/mardiv.htm
34
OK, question. If I am domestically partnered (I am going to start referring to it as 'not married') already in Wa, are the newer 'special rights' automatically conferred on my partner and I, no doubt in a blood red flash of light some evening while we are watching Glee reruns?
or do we have to get re-not married to make sure we are covered?
or do we have to get re-not married to make sure we are covered?
35
@1: Well, he can try. But his referendum barely made it onto the ballot, and as I recall the signature requirement for an initiative is considerably higher.
36
May I ask why anyone even bothers responding to Loveschild, trying to point out his/her/its ignorance and stupidity when Loveschild refuses to make a logical argument or to respond in a comprehensible way? Loveschild speaks of "intimidation" in WA, but doesn't take the time to even manufacture a case of such "intimidation" taking place. And Loveschild threatens to "make Massachusetts the face of gay marriage", as though it proves anything. Well, Massachusetts, as many here have pointed out, has proven something: same-sex marriage can be legally recognized without any detrimental effect.
I would compare arguing with Loveschild to arguing with a brick wall, but that would be unfair. Brick walls at least serve a useful purpose.
I would compare arguing with Loveschild to arguing with a brick wall, but that would be unfair. Brick walls at least serve a useful purpose.
37
A visit to Massachusetts shows that in some liberal towns, schools take education about gay families very seriously, and began incorporating it into curriculums years before same-sex marriage was legal.
But in more conservative communities, the subject of gay families and same-sex marriage simply hasn't been a concern.
"It hasn't had any effect," said Charles Gobron, superintendent of the Northborough-Southborough Schools. "For all the issues we face, that has not been one of them."
Massachusetts doesn't require schools to teach about same-sex or opposite-sex marriage, said J.C. Considine, director of board and media relations for the state Department of Education.
http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/ne…
39
@26 No Beth, the fight won't stop, my side will fight for the right of the people to know the truth and to be allowed to exercise their right to make their voice heard in thru the ballot. While your side will lie, obstruct and seek to silence them in everyway that you can come up with. The family side won't stop in this battle cause we are the one raising a new generation, we're are the ones forming families. You can call that "Hate" all you want, but to the rest of the normal people with a good head on their shoulders (thankfully, most Americans) that's the mere definition of love.
So you can go a head and hate on society all you want, hate on the family and procreation all you want. You can go on quoting a slaveholder (like Jefferson) all you want since that's most likely the type of ideals you admire. But those of us who truly love humanity will not rest and will impart in our children the love for kin, for the nuclear family, for continuation and for the future. And if WA turn out to be the Trojan horse that i am sure it will be, then it will be 31 secured (for now) and nineteen more to come for sure.
So you can go a head and hate on society all you want, hate on the family and procreation all you want. You can go on quoting a slaveholder (like Jefferson) all you want since that's most likely the type of ideals you admire. But those of us who truly love humanity will not rest and will impart in our children the love for kin, for the nuclear family, for continuation and for the future. And if WA turn out to be the Trojan horse that i am sure it will be, then it will be 31 secured (for now) and nineteen more to come for sure.
40
36, It's fun, and she stopped responding to me because I totally rip apart her flawed arguments. She hates that.
Lovechild, fight away, but you will lose. Arguments like yours were used to defend segregation, and interracial marriage bans.
Your side keeps dwindling away. Public opinion continues to move toward gay rights.
You will lose.
Lovechild, fight away, but you will lose. Arguments like yours were used to defend segregation, and interracial marriage bans.
Your side keeps dwindling away. Public opinion continues to move toward gay rights.
You will lose.
42
@40:
...and laws and local ordinances against catholics*, women, the irish*, italians*, the polish*, the chinese, the japanese, the jews*, and the mormons*. And to a lesser extent, the pulpit was used against socialists*, communists*, union organizers*, supporters of the revolutionary war* and a few other groups since this nation began in earnest.
*traits not readily apparent
Arguments like yours were used to defend segregation, and interracial marriage bans.
...and laws and local ordinances against catholics*, women, the irish*, italians*, the polish*, the chinese, the japanese, the jews*, and the mormons*. And to a lesser extent, the pulpit was used against socialists*, communists*, union organizers*, supporters of the revolutionary war* and a few other groups since this nation began in earnest.
*traits not readily apparent
44
@40 -- I agree it's fun, but I'm giving up after that comment @39. How do you even respond to someone so deluded she apparently thinks only bigots have children? Not only that, but even if that was true, that hardly guarantees that the children would agree with their parents on this issue. If it did, I'd most likely be here agreeing with Hateschild on everything she says, and I know plenty of other people would could say the same thing.
45
44, Loveschilds lack of education, and fundamentally flawed logic make for some unintentionally hilarious posts. So much goes right over her head. She is one of the best things about slog. I hope she never stops.
47
So will the elementary school education be replaced with gay porn immediately or at the beginning of the 2010-2011 school year?
All Washington marriages will be dissolved as of January 1, 2010, but the former spouses can still file a joint tax return for 2009. Governor Gregoire has also extended the 20 day grace period for straight spouses to move out of their houses and enter a same-sex domestic partnership. There will now be a 90 day period to comply.
I need to start looking for a husband because the dude I proposed to at the bar on election night has cold feet and a small wang.
All Washington marriages will be dissolved as of January 1, 2010, but the former spouses can still file a joint tax return for 2009. Governor Gregoire has also extended the 20 day grace period for straight spouses to move out of their houses and enter a same-sex domestic partnership. There will now be a 90 day period to comply.
I need to start looking for a husband because the dude I proposed to at the bar on election night has cold feet and a small wang.
48
@22: Can we please call for the singularization of the "they" and "their" as athird-person, gender-neutral pronoun?
I just...I really hate "ze." Why make up a new, dumb word, when we already have one which we use for the same purpose, despite it's supposed "incorrect-ness"
...Just something I think about often....
But yeah, LC sucks...and it makes me giggle that "they" can't stop saying "trojan".....teeeheeeheee! Get your mind out of the gutter, LC!
I just...I really hate "ze." Why make up a new, dumb word, when we already have one which we use for the same purpose, despite it's supposed "incorrect-ness"
...Just something I think about often....
But yeah, LC sucks...and it makes me giggle that "they" can't stop saying "trojan".....teeeheeeheee! Get your mind out of the gutter, LC!
49
41, States that have a marriage rate lower than or equal to Mass:
New York
Mississippi
Louisiana
New Mexico
Arizona
Nevada
California
Alaska
Massachusetts isn't even in the top 5 of states with the lowest marriage rates, and it still has the lowest divorce rate. After gay marriage was enacted, the divorce rate dropped even more.
http://pewsocialtrends.org/assets/flash/…
Do you have any other lies that you need totally debunked?
New York
Mississippi
Louisiana
New Mexico
Arizona
Nevada
California
Alaska
Massachusetts isn't even in the top 5 of states with the lowest marriage rates, and it still has the lowest divorce rate. After gay marriage was enacted, the divorce rate dropped even more.
http://pewsocialtrends.org/assets/flash/…
Do you have any other lies that you need totally debunked?
50
49
In only New York and Louisiana do men and women have a lower rate of marriage than Mass.
Mass has the highest median age of first marriage.
People in Mass marry later and less than other states- it follows that the divorce rate is lower.
(the number of marriages performed each year in Mass has plunged since homosexual marriage became legal.)
In only New York and Louisiana do men and women have a lower rate of marriage than Mass.
Mass has the highest median age of first marriage.
People in Mass marry later and less than other states- it follows that the divorce rate is lower.
(the number of marriages performed each year in Mass has plunged since homosexual marriage became legal.)
52
@ 50 They refuse to acknowledge that since it's not in their best interest, they rather call names, and intimidate . Don't waste time trying to explain that to them, they're resolute in silencing the people state by state and by any means necessary.
Instead do like I do and explain that to the people of the next battle ground states, I'm telling you, they need people like you and me and the few others who frequent this blog to help them clarify the lies the other side will surely dish up. I hope you will contribute, if you didn't in Maine, do so in the next that's to come. We need all the reinforcements we can get. Every little bit counts. We can make the difference.
Instead do like I do and explain that to the people of the next battle ground states, I'm telling you, they need people like you and me and the few others who frequent this blog to help them clarify the lies the other side will surely dish up. I hope you will contribute, if you didn't in Maine, do so in the next that's to come. We need all the reinforcements we can get. Every little bit counts. We can make the difference.
53
50, Nice Spin, but your wrong. You're twisting with all your might but you fail again.
Mass don't have the lowest marriage rate, and it has the lowest divorce rate.
It very telling that you must use lies to push your agenda.
Mass don't have the lowest marriage rate, and it has the lowest divorce rate.
It very telling that you must use lies to push your agenda.
54
Hey, Hateful Bigot, (Folks, please, you must call LC or 'it' that - nothing else will suffice).
Hateful Bigot - maybe take a look at this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/us/27b…
.
"In a San Francisco courtroom two weeks ago, a prominent lawyer opposed to same-sex marriage made a concession that could mark a turning point in the legal wars over the purpose and meaning of marriage.
.
The lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, has studied the matter deeply, and his erudite briefs are steeped in history. He cannot have been blindsided by the question Judge Vaughn R. Walker asked him: What would be the harm of permitting gay men and lesbians to marry?
.
“Your honor, my answer is: I don’t know,” Mr. Cooper said. “I don’t know.”
.
Hateful Bigot. There's this graph that shows in MA, the first state to allow same-sex marriage, that there's also the most support for them now.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1…
.
I do love that I get to write Hateful Bigot at least once a day currently.
And no, Hateful Bigot never responds to any of my questions either. But, I don't care.
.
Hateful Bigot. Fuck You.
Hateful Bigot - maybe take a look at this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/us/27b…
.
"In a San Francisco courtroom two weeks ago, a prominent lawyer opposed to same-sex marriage made a concession that could mark a turning point in the legal wars over the purpose and meaning of marriage.
.
The lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, has studied the matter deeply, and his erudite briefs are steeped in history. He cannot have been blindsided by the question Judge Vaughn R. Walker asked him: What would be the harm of permitting gay men and lesbians to marry?
.
“Your honor, my answer is: I don’t know,” Mr. Cooper said. “I don’t know.”
.
Hateful Bigot. There's this graph that shows in MA, the first state to allow same-sex marriage, that there's also the most support for them now.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/1…
.
I do love that I get to write Hateful Bigot at least once a day currently.
And no, Hateful Bigot never responds to any of my questions either. But, I don't care.
.
Hateful Bigot. Fuck You.
55
They refuse to acknowledge that since it's not in their best interest, they rather call names, and intimidate . Don't waste time trying to explain that to them, they're resolute in silencing the people state by state and by any means necessary.
And here we see Loveschild describing his/her/its own tactics, although lying was, significantly left out.
Rob, thank you for explaining why you respond. Loveschild may hate you for telling the truth, but it is entertaining, and also useful to have someone out there who's actually sharing facts.
56
"...pro-traditional marriage side can use WA and VT as examples of Trojan horses used for gay marriage..."
LC: I'm confused with your mythical metaphor. Aside from your usual skewed and misguided thought process, now you're saying a Trojan horse (full of what, pray tell? hot jarheads?) will be used by pro-traditional marriage advocates for - the Rose Bowl parade? Heterosexual Halloween? Help me out here.
Gay marriage should more or less negate the need for Trojans because we all know that both straight and gay marriages insure faithful monogamous love, fiduciary responsibility, well-behaved offspring and neighborhood sidewalk improvement.
LC: I'm confused with your mythical metaphor. Aside from your usual skewed and misguided thought process, now you're saying a Trojan horse (full of what, pray tell? hot jarheads?) will be used by pro-traditional marriage advocates for - the Rose Bowl parade? Heterosexual Halloween? Help me out here.
Gay marriage should more or less negate the need for Trojans because we all know that both straight and gay marriages insure faithful monogamous love, fiduciary responsibility, well-behaved offspring and neighborhood sidewalk improvement.
58
53
In only New York and Louisiana do men and women have a lower rate of marriage than Mass.
Mass has the highest median age of first marriage.
People in Mass marry later and less than other states- it follows that the divorce rate is lower.
(the number of marriages performed each year in Mass has plunged since homosexual marriage became legal.)
What errors, or "Lies", do you find here?
In only New York and Louisiana do men and women have a lower rate of marriage than Mass.
Mass has the highest median age of first marriage.
People in Mass marry later and less than other states- it follows that the divorce rate is lower.
(the number of marriages performed each year in Mass has plunged since homosexual marriage became legal.)
What errors, or "Lies", do you find here?
59
@58
Well, based on the 2008 American Community Survey, it's actually Washington D.C. that has the highest median age of first marriage at 32 years old. It's certainly true that Massachusetts is in second place with median age of 30, but this is a distinction shared with New York, New Jersey, and Rhode Island. So, your statement that "Mass has the highest median age of first marriage" is, at least based on the results of this survey, an error or "Lie", if you will. Now, if you have another survey that contradicts these results, I'm sure we'd be happy to see it.
Well, based on the 2008 American Community Survey, it's actually Washington D.C. that has the highest median age of first marriage at 32 years old. It's certainly true that Massachusetts is in second place with median age of 30, but this is a distinction shared with New York, New Jersey, and Rhode Island. So, your statement that "Mass has the highest median age of first marriage" is, at least based on the results of this survey, an error or "Lie", if you will. Now, if you have another survey that contradicts these results, I'm sure we'd be happy to see it.
60
I'm not surprised that when the vote went her way in Maine, LC says "The People Have Spoken!" but when the vote doesn't go her way in Washington, obviously it must be because the people misunderstood.
Some people are so predictable.
Some people are so predictable.
61
Mrs. Norris, I think you're missing something very important in LC's logic. If the vote goes her way then, yes, the people have spoken and they've made the "right" choice. If the vote doesn't go her way then it's prejudice...because, you know, denying her the right to impose her prejudices on other people is the ultimate form of prejudice.
62
58, Again you can spin it, distort it and cherry pick, but Mass isn't even in the top 5 states with the lowest marriage rate. You're lies are showing.
63
You cite Divorce as proof that Marriage is doing well?
silly boy.
In fact marriage is plunging in Mass:
38,000 in 2006, only 34,000 in 2008.
A more than 10% drop in two years.
At this rate by 2026 there will be zero marriages performed in Mass....
silly boy.
In fact marriage is plunging in Mass:
38,000 in 2006, only 34,000 in 2008.
A more than 10% drop in two years.
At this rate by 2026 there will be zero marriages performed in Mass....
64
Sorry to add this so late but I think it's worth saying: The Stranger probably deserves a little bit of credit for the very un-American tolerance and intelligence of many Seattle/Washington state voters. Your magazine puts the truth out there and argues for tolerance, decency and general goodness in an entertaining way. May each and every one of you Strangerites past, present and future be smooched by a hundred and one beauties of your prefered gender(s).
--sappiness ends--
--sappiness ends--
65
@61,
I didn't miss that part of her "logic," I expected her to apply it; that's why I said she was predictable. We are really saying the same thing.
I didn't miss that part of her "logic," I expected her to apply it; that's why I said she was predictable. We are really saying the same thing.
Most Commented on Slog
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Slog Somehow Overlooked... by Dan Savage
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VivaVulva Viagra! by Dan Savage -
Health at Every Size by Dan Savage
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Life and Death in a Recliner in South Carolina by Dan Savage
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"Let his days be few... Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow." by Dan Savage
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Feeling Sorry for Carrie Prejean by Dan Savage
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Last Night's Colbert Report by Dan Savage
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$2,600,000,000 by Dan Savage
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All The Best Men Are Taken by Dan Savage
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I Hate You, Garrison Keillor by Jen Graves
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