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News & ArtsMonday, November 2, 2009
Savage Love Savage Love Letter of the Day
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:53 PM
I went to a dungeon party with my boyfriend on Halloween. We are gay and I'm 22 and my boyfriend of six months is a little older (33). The party was at the house of some older friends of his who are pretty kinky. They would have to be since they have a dungeon in their house, right? There was a lot of bondage stuff and cages but people were just standing around drinking. Then one of the party's hosts asked me if I wanted to get tied up. I turned to my boyfriend and asked if that was alright with him. He shrugged in what looked like a friendly way—he smiled at his friend—and said, "Whatever you want." So to be a good sport and in the spirit of the party I let this guy tie me up. I spent less than ninety minutes tied up. I was hogtied on the floor in my underwear for thirty minutes then tied to the wall for maybe an hour. There was no kissing or sex or anything with this other guy. He was a perfect gentleman. He just tied up for a while then untied me and he didn't let anyone touch me while I was tied up.When we left the party my boyfriend exploded. He said he was shocked and angry that I would have sex in public like that! It wasn't sex, I said, since nothing happened. "You got a hardon!" he screamed. I apologized and tried to explain that I only got hard because I was showing off for him and that felt sexy to me. I thought he wanted his kinky friends to know that he was dating someone who was hot and fun and game for anything. He said that his friends all think he's dating some young whore now.
We haven't spoken since Saturday night. What do I do? How do I convince him that I didn't know he'd be so upset? Help!
First Time Bondage Experience Gone Wrong
No need to jump this response as it's going to be brief: Your boyfriend is an asshole and the wrong kind of sadist, FTBEGW. He gave you the okay to get tied up because he wanted to spend the rest of the night beating you up about it and making you feel awful. He enjoyed making you feel terrible and guilty and ashamed because he's an emotionally sadistic, manipulative, controlling piece of shit. DTMFY.*
* dump the motherfucker yesterday.
2
FTBEGW,
If it went down exactly as described then you either have to have a serious talk and lay out ground rules or DTMFA. Sounds harsh, but it triggers the DV counselor in me. Only you know if this was completely out of the ordinary, or if he's emotionally sadistic, manipulative, and controlling. If he's contolling then you need to dump his arse. And, FYI giving you radio silence sounds like he's being contolling ...
If it went down exactly as described then you either have to have a serious talk and lay out ground rules or DTMFA. Sounds harsh, but it triggers the DV counselor in me. Only you know if this was completely out of the ordinary, or if he's emotionally sadistic, manipulative, and controlling. If he's contolling then you need to dump his arse. And, FYI giving you radio silence sounds like he's being contolling ...
3
Perfect response, Dan.
Never, ever talk to that fucker again. He doesn't want a fun, hot, giving guy, but rather someone with as little self-esteem as he clearly has.
Never, ever talk to that fucker again. He doesn't want a fun, hot, giving guy, but rather someone with as little self-esteem as he clearly has.
4
DTMFY. One for the ages. And yes, perfectly appropriate for this motherfucker. God this makes me mad.
10
Gosh folks, being a little hasty here? I can think of at least two scenarios where FTBEGW's bf wasn't being an asshole (or maybe just a little bit of an asshole, to where it's forgivable).
First of all, they've been together six months, and it sounds like this is FTBEGW's first exposure to the BDSM world. Isn't it possible that they've never talked about boundaries when it comes to BDSM scenes, even if those scenes are part of a casual, jokey, party atmosphere? Or boundaries in general? Have they worked out the monogamy/non-monogamy thing? Or whether they've talked beforehand about the possibility of what happened...happeneing? If, for whatever reason, assholery or just laziness, communications are lacking, feelings are gonna get hurt, often badly.
Then there's another thing to consider: maybe the bf thought beforehand that he'd be OK with this sort of scene developing (thinking it would be hot, and, incidentally, thinking with his dick, just like every other male on this planet does from time to time). But then, when it happens, jealousy and possessiveness unexpectedly rear their ugly heads. Hey, it happens, and it happens to good people, not just assholes (I know, it's happened to me).
If it's bordering on the obsessive, and he treats you in this way in other areas of life, then yeah, get out. But a little (controllable) amount of these shouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker. GGG doesn't mean never, ever, ever feel jealous or posessive, it just means keep it under control.
Indeed, it may not have been the bf showing his true assholic colors at all. Maybe the bf just made a bad decision (fueled by alcohol, I'll wager) in giving him the go-ahead, and then didn't know what to do or didn't want to make a scene when he realized he had a problem with it.
More...
First of all, they've been together six months, and it sounds like this is FTBEGW's first exposure to the BDSM world. Isn't it possible that they've never talked about boundaries when it comes to BDSM scenes, even if those scenes are part of a casual, jokey, party atmosphere? Or boundaries in general? Have they worked out the monogamy/non-monogamy thing? Or whether they've talked beforehand about the possibility of what happened...happeneing? If, for whatever reason, assholery or just laziness, communications are lacking, feelings are gonna get hurt, often badly.
Then there's another thing to consider: maybe the bf thought beforehand that he'd be OK with this sort of scene developing (thinking it would be hot, and, incidentally, thinking with his dick, just like every other male on this planet does from time to time). But then, when it happens, jealousy and possessiveness unexpectedly rear their ugly heads. Hey, it happens, and it happens to good people, not just assholes (I know, it's happened to me).
If it's bordering on the obsessive, and he treats you in this way in other areas of life, then yeah, get out. But a little (controllable) amount of these shouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker. GGG doesn't mean never, ever, ever feel jealous or posessive, it just means keep it under control.
Indeed, it may not have been the bf showing his true assholic colors at all. Maybe the bf just made a bad decision (fueled by alcohol, I'll wager) in giving him the go-ahead, and then didn't know what to do or didn't want to make a scene when he realized he had a problem with it.
11
@10: Even if yadda yadda yadda, the guy said "go ahead" AND the guy who wrote in didn't even have sex! No one touched him aside from tying him up!!! Maybe you would have a point if it was an on the fly thing AND the guy actually did things, but he didn't even do anything!
12
@ Chris, it is NEVER, EVER forgivable for someone to say, "Sure" to the BF being tied up, then unloading like he did afterward. Why? Because you never say "sure" to something that will make you so fucking jealous in the first place. Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt with your last paragraph's scenario, he (being 33) should be man enough to own up to being responsible for the situation. Instead, he blamed the much-younger BF for the whole thing.
I have a feeling that this cretin is dating younger guys because guys closer to his age are too mature and experienced to put up with petulant bullshit like this.
I have a feeling that this cretin is dating younger guys because guys closer to his age are too mature and experienced to put up with petulant bullshit like this.
13
@12 Agreed. This is a guy who -- at best -- is obviously not planning (or able) to uphold the campsite rule. Yes, I know, 22 isn't that young, but I personally think an 11-year difference counts in this case, especially with a BDSM novice.
14
if older bf was initially ok with it, then realized later that he was skeezed out by it, he had AN HOUR AND A HALF to approach ftbegw and whisper in his ear that he wanted him to stop. but no, that might make him look uncool to the other partygoers, so he waited to unload in private to the hapless young letter-writer. fucking coward. buh.
15
Not to mention that the hosts of the party were HIS (the 33 y.o's) friends. He had to have known that they 1) are kinky 2) have a dungeon and 3) might approach his hot young bf about kink.
16
Hold on just a minute - the older guy gave the younger one permission to get tied up. He did not give him permission to get a boner. And everyone knows that illicit boners are tantamount to cheating.
I say the older guy teaches that hair-triggered little slut a "hard" lesson.
I say the older guy teaches that hair-triggered little slut a "hard" lesson.
17
@10, the scenario you describe MIGHT be plausible (and it would still be a huge asshole move, not a tiny one) if the older boyfriend had come to his senses and apologized for his dick behavior ASAP. But to give the younger guy the silent treatment for two days over his own mixed messages, jealousy, insecurity, and assholery? That's more than a little unfair. That shows that he expects the younger guy to abject himself and come crawling back, when the younger guy did NOTHING WRONG. He doesn't deserve this treatment.
18
@8: all this makes me want to hog tie your four stumpy Corgi legs and force feed you kibble. Are you a feeder-gainer Corgi?
19
The stupidity of people continues to amaze me. I hope the young man dumps his asshole boyfriend right away.
24
I don't know if you need to DUMP this guy -- everyone has major asshole moments in every relationship. Like ... BIG.
But that doesn't change the fact that he he fully, fully deserves whatever shitstorm you will (must) rain down on him. And you have the force of the internets behind you.
And just to end on a skeevy note, this straight girl found your letter totally hot, apart from the emotional mindfucking.
But that doesn't change the fact that he he fully, fully deserves whatever shitstorm you will (must) rain down on him. And you have the force of the internets behind you.
And just to end on a skeevy note, this straight girl found your letter totally hot, apart from the emotional mindfucking.
27
@ 11-14, 17 - I didn't say it wasn't bad behavior on the bf's part. It was. Just not automatically dump-worthy, as so many here are advising. Jealousy & posessiveness happen, people. Completely eliminating them from a relationship isn't very realistic. The best one can do is just manage it.
Hell, if every bit of bad behavior like this (say, harmless flirting at a bar, to take it out of a BDSM context) resulted in an ended relationship, everybody would be single!
Of course, I haven't reviewed any video of the incident in question, and that's essential to providing good advice. Could I get a look at that?
Hell, if every bit of bad behavior like this (say, harmless flirting at a bar, to take it out of a BDSM context) resulted in an ended relationship, everybody would be single!
Of course, I haven't reviewed any video of the incident in question, and that's essential to providing good advice. Could I get a look at that?
28
@22 I would also like a video.
But seriously, what I was saying is that yes, jealousy happens, but the onus is on the jerk older boyfriend to apologize here and own up to his manipulative behavior. He seems to be expecting younger guy to apologize, and that shouldn't happen.
But seriously, what I was saying is that yes, jealousy happens, but the onus is on the jerk older boyfriend to apologize here and own up to his manipulative behavior. He seems to be expecting younger guy to apologize, and that shouldn't happen.
30
Uggggggg. I had a bf who used to freak out on me after parties for various "offenses" that I had committed during the party. I could never quite understand what I had done wrong or figure out ways to prevent a blowup after almost every party we attended. Eventually we stopped going to parties. In hindsight, I think the problem was that people actually liked me and wanted to talk to me and didn't particularly like the bf or want to talk to him. I wish I had gotten out of that relationship at six months and saved myself years and years of misery living with a controlling asshole who happily ground my self esteem down to almost nothing before it was over.
Get out FTBEGW!!!! You are a young, kinky, gay, GGG guy; you can do SOOOOOOO much better.
Get out FTBEGW!!!! You are a young, kinky, gay, GGG guy; you can do SOOOOOOO much better.
31
@ 27, there are acceptable levels of jealousy and unacceptable levels. There are levels of maturity and self-awareness someone should achieve by the age of 33, and this BF has not achieved them. Honestly, the silent treatment? Really?
As others have pointed out, it would be different if the older BF admitted his fault in creating the situation in the first place. He has not. He is exactly as Dan described, and only a doormat would think that this isn't dumpworthy.
Why are you downplaying the seriousness of this? This isn't the least bit comparable to flirting in a bar. This is major emotional abuse, and calling it that is completely free of hyperbole. You don't sit around and "work it out," especially when the relationship is only six months old. You dump the motherfucker and you move on. You also bone up on self-defense and knowing your rights because this type of asswipe might also stalk you.
As others have pointed out, it would be different if the older BF admitted his fault in creating the situation in the first place. He has not. He is exactly as Dan described, and only a doormat would think that this isn't dumpworthy.
Why are you downplaying the seriousness of this? This isn't the least bit comparable to flirting in a bar. This is major emotional abuse, and calling it that is completely free of hyperbole. You don't sit around and "work it out," especially when the relationship is only six months old. You dump the motherfucker and you move on. You also bone up on self-defense and knowing your rights because this type of asswipe might also stalk you.
32
@27-I'm all for allowing people to be imperfect, but if at the age of 33 this guy still hasn't grown up enough to realize that he's utterly in the wrong after three days, then perhaps its time life taught him a little lesson. Maybe after he loses the hot young lover due to his unacceptable behavior he'll learn that there are consequences to refusing to accept responsibility for failing to communicate your boundaries and then taking your insecurities out on your partner in an abusive manner. If he's fortunate enough to ever have another lover, hopefully he will learn to control his temper, or at least that the appropriate response after such a shameful display is abject groveling rather than sulking and continuing to act like the other party is in the wrong. Sometimes loss is the best teacher.
34
The boyfriend is horrified and furious that FTBEGW got an erection at a sex party.
huh?
He's not only a dick, he's a stupid dick.
huh?
He's not only a dick, he's a stupid dick.
35
Who the fuck goes to a dungeon party and then gets pissed that people are doing dungeony things there? Is it not the point to get a stiffy at these parties?
36
If by age 33 a person is still handling their perhaps unexpected reactions via screaming and the silent treatment then there is only one sane thing to do and Dan put it perfectly.
FTBEGW, The only convincing you need to do is for yourself to know that this guy is the wrong guy and that you deserve far, far better.
FTBEGW, The only convincing you need to do is for yourself to know that this guy is the wrong guy and that you deserve far, far better.
37
@10 No, no one's being hasty at all. The 33yo BF was totally out of line in every possible way (as described--if there was a 30 minute round of "please let me try this" that wasn't disclosed that MIGHT put a slightly different color on things). There's still no excuse for an experienced player taking his boyfriend to his first play party acting so badly both to his boyfriend and to the standards of the community (yes, there are rules in the wider BDSM community the asshole violated).
I'd recommend getting back in touch with the hosts of the party and finding out if this is typical behavior for the psycho BF. If it is, dump him the day before yesterday and see about getting them to hook you into the community if you want to continue.
I'd recommend getting back in touch with the hosts of the party and finding out if this is typical behavior for the psycho BF. If it is, dump him the day before yesterday and see about getting them to hook you into the community if you want to continue.
38
FTBEGW, his overreaction and subsequent pouting tell me one thing: this is the kind of guy that will blacken your eyes and break your arm someday. DTMFY.
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