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Friday, October 30, 2009

Silent Truth

Posted by Paul Constant on Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:25 PM

truthonwheels.png
This morning in the Morning News, Lindy linked to a New York Times story about how some Pakistani soldiers found documents linking the Taliban to an Al Qaeda group that planned 9/11.

In a small village in the dun-colored hills of South Waziristan, soldiers found a German passport belonging to Said Bahaji, a German citizen and associate of Mohammed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers.

The passport was issued in Hamburg in August 2, 2001 and was accompanied by a Pakistani visa dated August 3, 2001. The documents indicated that Mr. Bahaji landed in Karachi from Istanbul on Sept. 4, 2001.

The apparent presence of Mr. Bahaji in the tribal areas of Pakistan is a clear indication that members of the Qaeda network — including participants in the 9/11 plot — have taken refuge here, as American officials, like Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday, have charged.

"Well, shit," I thought. "This is going to punch a hole in a bunch of 9/11 Truther theories. I wonder how they're going to respond." After all, Truthers are big on disseminating information, right? So I went to a bunch of Truther sites to see what they had to say about this New York Times story.

Hmmm. We Are Change Seattle doesn't have anything at all about it. 911 Blogger is weirdly silent, too. Come on, guys! Isn't somebody going to float a theory that the Pakistani Army is covering for George W. Bush by faking information? Nothing at 911 Truthaction except for that stunning silver fox of a Wheelie-Truther there to the left. Almost all of these sites to make scary references to Glenn Beck. And it looks like 911Truth.org doesn't have anything about it either...wait a minute! I see the words "New York Times" further down on the page. Maybe they have something to say about the Pakistani evidence:

HerebeTruth_.png

Sigh. Never mind.

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Comments (42) RSS

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1
still doesn't explain how a 47 story building (WTC7) falls to the ground in 6 seconds, while never being hit by a plane...
Posted by montgomery sun on October 30, 2009 at 1:32 PM
Will in Seattle 2
That's because it's an obvious plant by the Pakistanis trying to get more funding from us.

Which you'd know if you realized that al-Qaeda still gets more than 95 percent of its funding and volunteers from just one country - Saudi Arabia.

And which is why we have CIA predator drones illegally assassinating their leaders in Yemen (which is a Good Thing, unlike the clusterfuck that is the Iraq War and the Afghanistan War).
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on October 30, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Arsenic7 3
@1, agreed. I mean...how could a building, which is located right next to the twin towers, possibly crumble from a mere multiple tons of concrete, glass, air plane wreckage, and other debris in a mere 6 seconds...after having been put under all this strain for a long period of time. Yes. Hmm. I can't possibly imagine a scenario in which that might happen. Nope.
Posted by Arsenic7 on October 30, 2009 at 1:41 PM
4
@3, especially a building that's been on fire for quite a few hours. I believe that that makes them impervious to collapse, right truthers?
Posted by Sean on October 30, 2009 at 1:47 PM
The Amazing Jim 5
This also shits on the pervasive "Why are we fighting the Taliban? They didn't have anything to do with 911!" crap too.
Posted by The Amazing Jim http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/profile.php?id=100000076496291&ref=profile on October 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Urgutha Forka 6
The reason WTC7 collapsed was because of FNORD, the sudden FNORD of FNORD, and too many FNORD in the FNORD.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on October 30, 2009 at 1:57 PM
7
Maybe the Truthers and Birthers can all fuck off to a little island somewhere and make babies....then they can return to their jobs at Kinkos.
Posted by Donald Bradmans on October 30, 2009 at 2:04 PM
8
Does it matter if we "defeat" the Taliban if we end up committing genocide against the people of Afghanistan in the process?

The antiwar movement retreats

Many in the antiwar movement ardently opposed the war in Iraq while remaining silent about an equally immoral war in Afghanistan.

October 20, 2009
http://socialistworker.org/2009/10/20/th…
COLUMN: SHARON SMITH [1]

EIGHT YEARS into the war on Afghanistan--and with no end in sight--seems a peculiar time for antiwar activists to claim that U.S. forces need to stay there even longer for the sake of the Afghan people.

Yet Yifat Susskind, communications director for the human rights organization MADRE, recently argued on CommonDreams.org, "'Bring the Troops Home' is a bumper sticker, not a policy." She continued, "For MADRE, U.S. obligations stem from the fact that Afghanistan's poverty, violence against women and political corruption are, in part, results of U.S. policy over the past 30 years."

Code Pink cofounders Medea Benjamin and Jodie Evans began arguing for a "responsible withdrawal" after their recent visit to Afghanistan, which focused on discovering Afghan women's attitudes toward the U.S. occupation. While there, they met with a handpicked group of politically connected Afghan women that included President Hamid Karzai's sister-in-law, Wazhma Karzai.

According to Code Pink, many of these members of parliament and businesswomen opposed sending an additional 40,000 U.S. troops to Afghanistan, but also said they rely on U.S. troops for their own personal safety.

On October 6, the Christian Science Monitor published an interview with Benjamin and reported on her change of heart, based on conversations with some of the women she met in Kabul. For example, CSM reported, "Shinkai Karokhail, an Afghan member of parliament and woman activist, told them. 'International troop presence here is a guarantee for my safety.'"

Benjamin claimed she was misrepresented in the Christian Science Monitor. Yet Benjamin herself said in a recent interview:

[W]e certainly did hear some people say that they felt if the U.S. pulled out right now, there would be a collapse, and the Taliban might take over, there might be a civil war. But we also heard a lot of people say they didn't want more troops to be sent in, and they wanted the U.S. to have a responsible exit strategy that included the training of Afghan troops, included being part of promoting a real reconciliation process and included economic development; that the United States shouldn't be allowed to just walk away from the problem. So that's really our position.

This reasoning assumes, of course, that the U.S. is capable of behaving responsibly toward the Afghan people. It is not.

The Obama administration feigned disappointment at the rampant corruption of the Karzai regime, now that the UN Election Complaints Commission has reported that widespread stuffing of ballot boxes and coercion by warlords helped Karzai "win" re-election by a margin of 54 percent this past summer. As many as one in every three votes was fraudulent, and most of them went to Karzai.

But the Obama administration hasn't yet lost faith in Karzai. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton reportedly told Karzai over the weekend "that this is an important moment where he can show statesmanship and actually strengthen his leadership position," according to administration officials.

To add to the embarrassment, Karzai was resisting the UN commission's findings. Despite a flurry of phone calls and visits, including one from Sen. John Kerry and another from former U.S. State Department envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, Karzai remains defiant. He indicated that he will only accept a decision from Afghanistan's Independent Election Commission (IEC), a body dominated by his political allies, which was also accused of involvement in the massive election fraud this past summer.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

THROUGH BLACKMAIL, bribery and brute military force, the U.S. has determined the political landscape of post-Taliban Afghanistan.

U.S. conquerors installed Karzai as Afghanistan's transitional head of state in December 2001. But Karzai was never meant to build a genuine democracy in Afghanistan. Nor was he expected to champion the rights of women. On the contrary, he was chosen not for his ethical credentials, but rather for his close ties to the band of warlords with which the U.S. partnered to quickly overthrow the Taliban in November 2001.

Renamed the "Northern Alliance" for the purpose of casting these warlords as freedom fighters, in reality, they were veterans of the National Islamic United Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan, an unstable coalition that ruled Afghanistan between 1992 and 1996, when the Taliban overthrew it.

Together, they constituted seven separate Mujahideen political parties, each representing the fiefdom of a corrupt warlord. Their president, Burhanuddin Rabbani, suspended the constitution and issued a series of religious edicts banishing women from broadcasting and government jobs, and requiring women to wear veils. More severe repression soon followed.

Karzai served as deputy foreign minister in Rabbani's government, while the feuding Mujahideen parties unleashed a rein of terror against Afghanistan's already war-torn population. Women were routinely abducted, beaten and raped, or sold into prostitution. According to human rights expert Patricia Gossman, "Between 1992 and 1995, fighting among the factions of the alliance reduced a third of Kabul to rubble and killed more than 50,000 civilians. The top commanders ordered massacres of rival ethnic groups, and their troops engaged in mass rape."

In June 2002, in what the U.S. media depicted as a "flowering of democracy," a loya jirga, or tribal council, elected Karzai as Afghanistan's interim president. But most of the decisions were made behind the scenes, where then-U.S. envoy Khalilzad--a former Unocal oil executive--worked hand in glove with Karzai and the Northern Alliance to manipulate the votes. During the loya jirga, Karzai announced his own election as president before the vote had actually taken place, to the dismay of many delegates.

In the run-up to the 2002 loya jirga, eight delegates were murdered amid a general rise in political violence and intimidation by warlords guarding their own fiefdoms. Meanwhile, Karzai used a rumored plot to overthrow his government as an excuse to round up 700 of his political opponents in the weeks before the voting.

Karzai's brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, has long been flagged as a drug trafficker in Southern Afghanistan, but the allegations have never been investigated. He continues to head the Kandahar Provincial Council, the governing body for the region.

He also has played a role in passing information to international intelligence agencies. According to Rajiv Chandrasekaran, writing in the Washington Post, while aware of information implicating Karzai in the drug trade, "U.S. and Canadian diplomats have not pressed the matter, in part because Ahmed Wali Karzai has given valuable intelligence to the U.S. military, and he also routinely provides assistance to Canadian forces, according to several officials familiar with the issue."

Under President Karzai's watch, Afghanistan has returned to providing roughly 95 percent of the world's heroin supplies, while the U.S. military looks the other way. As Jeff Stein recently reported at the Huffington Post, Republican Rep. Mike Rogers of Michigan explained, "We certainly need the president to be with us. That would be hard if we're hauling off his brother to a detention center."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

THE U.S. left has failed to effectively oppose the war in Afghanistan from its onset, when the U.S. population overwhelmingly supported the war on the pretext that "we were attacked."

That support has severely eroded, and polls show that a clear majority now wants to end the occupation. Yet many on the left have remained confused for the last eight years--ardently opposing the war in Iraq while remaining silent about the equally immoral war in Afghanistan.

This confusion has apparently been compounded by the election of Barack Obama, who initially opposed the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Obama's Nobel Peace Prize notwithstanding, however, he has since embraced the aims of U.S. imperialism with gusto. U.S. troops and, perhaps more importantly, U.S. military bases remain in Iraq with no deadline for complete withdrawal.

Obama authorized a surge of 21,000 additional U.S. troops to Afghanistan soon after taking office and is now pondering whether to send at least 40,000 more. These are no longer George W. Bush's wars. Obama has claimed them for himself. So far, the only consequence of the surge has been the resurgence of the Taliban resistance against U.S. occupation. Even his pledge to close the prison camp at Guantánamo Bay remains unfulfilled.

Yet Obama maintains a substantial following on the U.S. left, sowing yet more confusion among antiwar activists. For example, in response to Obama's Nobel Peace Prize, Juan Lopez wrote in the People's World on October 12, "Now, don't get me wrong... Like other left and progressive folks, I advocate ending the Afghanistan military venture." Yet he went on to praise the award: "Most of the nation and world embraced the choice as affirmation that, with President Obama at the helm, America has embarked on a new, far more constructive course."

Likewise, Code Pink's Evans argued on womensmediacenter.com, "I left the States with a judgment about some of the women who were members of the parliament: So many are sisters and wives of warlords or tribal leaders chosen merely to fill the required quota of women. But member of parliament Shinkai Karokhal, a radical feminist from Kabul, reminded me that just their existence, that they constitute 25 percent of the body, is inspiring to women throughout the country."

Afghan women surely deserve better than parliamentary representation by the wives of warlords enforcing the lawless and repressive status quo. Those seeking alternative opinions among Afghan women can easily discover that there is no shortage of those with the courage to expose the rule of warlords and call for the immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops.

Malalai Joya is a case in point. As a young woman, she denounced the participation of drug traffickers and warlords at the 2002 loya jirga. Soon after she was elected to parliament in 2005, she was suspended for her outspokenness. She now escapes violent retribution by wearing a burka as a disguise.

As she wrote in the Guardian on July 25:

You must understand that the government headed by Hamid Karzai is full of warlords and extremists who are brothers in creed of the Taliban. Many of these men committed terrible crimes against the Afghan people during the civil war of the 1990s. For expressing my views, I have been expelled from my seat in parliament, and I have survived numerous assassination attempts. The fact that I was kicked out of office while brutal warlords enjoyed immunity from prosecution for their crimes should tell you all you need to know about the "democracy" backed by NATO troops.

Likewise, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) has maintained its anti-occupation principles since the war began, risking their lives to organize an underground movement in U.S.-occupied Afghanistan.

In a recent post to the U.S. antiwar movement, RAWA stated:

The U.S. and allies occupied Afghanistan in the name of "democracy," "women's rights" and "war on terror," but after eight long years, everyone knows that the situation is as critical in Afghanistan as it was under the brutal regime of the Taliban. While they talk about democracy and women's rights, on the other end, they are supporting and nourishing the diehard enemies of these values, and impose them on our people.

Washington's warmongers have been getting away with mass murder in Afghanistan for far too long. Obama is now at the helm of this disastrous imperial adventure. "Troops out now" is the only viable exit strategy, yet it can also easily fit onto a bumper sticker. Those who argue for prolonging the U.S. occupation until the U.S. transforms its mission into a benevolent one are likely to be kept waiting forever.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Columnist: Sharon Smith
Sharon Smith is the author of Subterranean Fire: A History of Working-Class Radicalism in the United States [2], a historical account of the American working-class movement, and Women and Socialism [3], a collection of essays on women’s oppression and the struggle against it. She is also on the board of Haymarket Books [4].
More...
Posted by Lonnie on October 30, 2009 at 2:06 PM
9
@3/4
can you please point out the fire and structural damage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p…
Posted by montgomery sun on October 30, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Arsenic7 10
So did you need to post that entire text that no one will read or could you just have linked it?
Posted by Arsenic7 on October 30, 2009 at 2:09 PM
Arsenic7 11
@9

No, because I'm at work and they don't let me watch youtube videos here.

OMG!

THEY ARE A PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!
Posted by Arsenic7 on October 30, 2009 at 2:10 PM
12
There's no evidence that can't be ignored by the willing.
Posted by dwight moody on October 30, 2009 at 2:15 PM
13
@11
well watch the video later, then explain it....
btw, i don't claim to speculate on who or what happened on 9/11.... just asking questions....
but apparently asking questions about our government is a radical idea in your opinion....
one that requires your mockery.
Posted by montgomery sun on October 30, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Arsenic7 14
@13

Well you got that last part right.

This is an issue that has been investigated ad nauseum and constantly the facts come out not supporting the truthers claims and yet, 8 years down the line, they are still making these silly arguments based on an IDEA that came to a few peoples minds when they watched shaky camera footage on Fox News.
Posted by Arsenic7 on October 30, 2009 at 2:34 PM
Joe Szilagyi 15
KEYBOARD CAT DID 911
Posted by Joe Szilagyi http://www.joeszilagyi.com on October 30, 2009 at 2:51 PM
16
"well watch the video later, then explain it....

Explains what? It shows barely 30% of the structure.
Posted by Truthers and Birthers Untie! on October 30, 2009 at 2:56 PM
The Amazing Jim 17
It was the Triumverate! Col. Sanders, The Queen and the Rothschilds! It was all planned out in their secret lair, otherwise known as "The Meadows".
Posted by The Amazing Jim http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/profile.php?id=100000076496291&ref=profile on October 30, 2009 at 2:58 PM
JF 18
@15 - I fucking knew it.
Posted by JF on October 30, 2009 at 2:58 PM
JF 19
I think the truthers and birthers are the same people. I know this is wishful thinking, but I'd hope that our country doesn't have enough retards in it to fill both retarded idea pools. Hopefully we have truthers just moving onto the birther concept and we can continue to ignore the same bunch of assholes.

Too much to ask, I know.
Posted by JF on October 30, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Joe Szilagyi 20
@19 No, the Truthers are generally the absurd ultra-extreme-far Left. The Birthers are generally the absurd ultra-extreme-far Right.

What we need is a prominent Truther to marry a prominent Birther, Carville-Matalin style. Orly needs some sugar!
Posted by Joe Szilagyi http://www.joeszilagyi.com on October 30, 2009 at 3:03 PM
21
@9. Can't watch YT at work. Also can't be bothered. I suggest you take your ideas to http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php… and talk to the people, including structural engineers, there.
Posted by Sean on October 30, 2009 at 3:10 PM
care bear 22
@20 At some point the absurd ultra-extreme far Left and the absurd ultra-extreme far Right become the same thing.
Posted by care bear on October 30, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Fifty-Two-Eighty 23
Well, you know the old saying: 50% of the population has a below-average intelligence level.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on October 30, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Arsenic7 24
@22, Agreed.

Anarchists and extreme libertarians are pretty much the same exact thing, for example.
Posted by Arsenic7 on October 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Fnarf 25
@6, these FNORD are top-secret spy enemies of the FNARF. FNARF brought down all the building with loud humming noise to make FNORD look bad. FNORD in big trouble, FNARF get off scot-free.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on October 30, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Rotten666 26
@1

please kill yourself.
Posted by Rotten666 on October 30, 2009 at 3:28 PM
27
19, 20, 22, 24 etc.....

you're all making generalizations and stereotyping specific arguments. which is silly. when someone questions something, such as the JFK murder, what has that do with which political idealism someone subscribes to?

i certainly agree that people who call themselves "truthers" are acting fanatical. alex jones is a douchebag, duh. but it doesn't mean that we can therefore ignore the questions that linger about any controversial incident because alex jones or group of "truthers" co-opted a reasonable line of questioning.

(remember, lenin and stalin all co-opted communism as their guise for dictatorship. in essence, they are the ones who dismantled karl marx's credibility in the realm of political thought....)

point is, nobody has explained how WTC7 came down the way it did. and that is a REASONABLE question to ask.
Posted by montgomery sun on October 30, 2009 at 3:38 PM
wisepunk 28
@6 @25

I see it!
Posted by wisepunk on October 30, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Arsenic7 29
@27, we are dismissing you now because these claims have been made for years and years. Many of us have investigated them and several studies HAVE been done on why WTC7 collapsed. The arguments simply aren't convincing.

Hence why we lump you in with the truther loons.
Posted by Arsenic7 on October 30, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Cochise. 30
@9 why did you use that video when you can see so many other angles of WTC7's massive fire here?:

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_fire.h…
Posted by Cochise. on October 30, 2009 at 4:49 PM
31
@30...
ha! that's a one-story fire! do you think they build skyscrapers that can collapse when one floor is on fire?
look at this one... the whole building was completely on fire for 15 hours and the core never collapsed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQ…

@29, mister investigator, please share your explanation of how wtc7 came down like that in 6 seconds with no visible overwhelming damage or fire?
until you do, stop offering me your holy classification of my thoughts.
Posted by montgomery sun on October 30, 2009 at 5:23 PM
32
@31- So someone hit that building, which was a a replica of WTC 7 with tons of concrete at some point? No? Well then you haven't proved anything.
Posted by dwight moody on October 30, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Arsenic7 33
Like I said, old argument. No need to debate it here. Your opinion has been widely discredited for years.

There have been official investigations into why it collapsed. Go to the wiki if you want to learn more.

Not all skyscrapers are built the same. The world is not a series of certainties and the idea that a skyscraper could be severely damaged by a prolonged fire left un fought is certainly within the realm of possibility. Disregarding the crazyness of believing the government is responsible, I don't understand why it seems like an impossibility to you.
Posted by Arsenic7 on October 30, 2009 at 6:03 PM
34
The real reason for all the high-pressure tactics to keep Obama's true mixed-race and true birth certificate squelched is because he shares the same bio-father and I and other "Manchurian Candidates" do. (On the white side)
Former Ministerium Fuer Staasscherheit (Stasi) Master Spy Markus Wolf (A master of false documentation and crafted Legends) had Celiac's disease (He told me), a particular
gift for espionage operatives, and he used his resources to pick
women of the same genetics, in order to create proverbial "Manchurian
Candidates." That he had intended to run on a life-long operation of
the destruction of western capitalism by subversion from within. (See my website)
But I was used by US Agencies in the '70's to lure him to the West, where he was
"Turned," from the East, by placing me in US Army M.I. & sending me to
Germany. He became a "Consultant" for the US since, drawing out the enemy agenda in advance, and drew up the Patriot Act, for example.
Every future Obamamania theme was preempted in advance by the CIA and the Bushes.
A lot of other spies were lured out, too.
Gen. Wolf was gifted in many things, to include applied psychology, and PSYOPS, (He designed many of our anti-war songs - Peter, Paul & Mary...) but his medical expert for personal terror and assassination was apparently a former Nazi SS Munthausen concentration camp Doctor "Death," Aribert Heim.
In retrospect, I can say that my father has had more influence in American Politics over these last decades than has any US President.
But only now can I share my entire genetic "Espionage family" with the world:
http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com

"Telling the truth during times of universal deceit will be a
revolutionary act." George Orwell, "1984"
More...
Posted by rickahyatt on October 30, 2009 at 7:12 PM
35
The truthers are a lot like the moon landing deniers in that they don't seem to understand basic science. I'm always hearing arguments like, "Well, the fire wasn't hot enough to melt steel." Which neglects that steel loses a lot of strength at temperatures well below its melting point.

@31: The building that burned for 15 hours had a concrete core that helped support it -- and it still partially collapsed. The collapse was limited mostly because of a stiffer "technical level" that held mechanical equipment. The WTC towers were constructed differently.
Posted by Orv on October 30, 2009 at 7:42 PM
Baconcat 36
@31: There were fires on 9 floors, in the central floor structure where the upper and lower flowers are structurally joined, there was a massive fire that damaged the integrity of the girders that supported the east side of the structure. Debris falling from above slammed into the building, which eventually led to a full structural failure of the girders supporting the east side of the building. The balance of the building was thrown off thanks to the fire and damage from above, and the central core collapsed.

Firefighters were aware of imminent collapse after the building formed a large bulge, too.

FEMA has a report that runs into the hundreds of pages with structural analysis, including analysis of the probability of a controlled demolition (none).

So let's stop being wackadoodles.
Posted by Baconcat on October 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM
37
It was nothing more than a passport which belonged to someone who knew Mohammed Atta. It doesn't establish any new data, really.

I'm one of those "nuts" who does believe that elements of the preceding US administration likely had at least foreknowledge of, and possibly a hand in, causing the events of 9/11 to happen. The main reason I started believing this was that "al-Qaeda" was never mentioned anywhere in the news until AFTER 9/11. I got a hold of a bunch of Air Force training manuals which were printed in the years 1999 and 2000, and their material on Terrorism and Terrorist Groups mentioned absolutely no "al-Qaeda", and only had Osama bin Laden mentioned as a sort of footnote, a single sentence that called him the 'son of a wealthy Saud family, who commits acts of terror alone or with a few accomplices". In 2001, after mid-September, suddenly everything was all about this "al-Qaeda" group, and Bush got to have all his wars. It's just massively fishy. When all the stuff about controlled demolition came out, it was no surprise to me at all.

It is sad however how fucked up the 9/11 truth movement became...whether it was a result of agent provocateuring or just people being idiots and assholes because there's a massive propensity for human beings to end up doing this when they're clustered in any sort of hostile group or movement...is something I don't feel I'll ever be able to know for sure. But last I remember seeing, the truther sites were all lousy with backbiting, infighting and really idiotic levels of braggadocio on top of a paranoia-environment that goes beyond what I think makes sense for it to have gone...

The site I used to hang out on, Letsroll.com, is now mostly populated by right wing type nutbars who think Obama's a worse president than Bush, who spend a lot of time comparing "end time prophecy notes" and "spiritual warfare tips"-- and who seem to be enjoying being on the "rebel" side of the fence a lot more than I'd ever have imagined.
More...
Posted by psychaotic on October 31, 2009 at 2:08 AM
Cracker Jack 38
If you want to see a truly diseased mind at work, check @34's link. He's serious.
Posted by Cracker Jack on October 31, 2009 at 6:29 AM
39
33, 35 ,36

why the certainty? you've been convinced by wikipedia or george bush in your line of conviction. and that's silly...

there are many people on both sides of this argument who make great points. @36 in particular makes some good points. but i don't think anybody should go around proclaiming to fully understand what happened.

just as i don't think anyone should go around proclaiming that God exists, just because somebody else told them so.

so, have fun with your ironclad convictions. and be sure to keep on dismissing anyone who questions you.
Posted by montgomery sun on October 31, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Mrs. Norris 40
Hmmm, whose explanation should I accept for WTC7's collapse?

The ASCE's (American Society of Civil Engineers)? or someone's who's watched a video and thought it looked funny?

That said, the Bush administration was creepy and secretive enough that it isn't at all surprising that these conspiracy theories cropped up.
Posted by Mrs. Norris on November 2, 2009 at 3:57 AM
41
@39, recent studies have shown that people with ironclad convictions enjoy better mental health than people who are uncertain.
Posted by waffre on November 2, 2009 at 5:01 PM
42
I was raised on Dr. Dobson, and have just sent him a letter requesting his assistance to help me stop loosing faith in the Christian Church. My Mom respects Dr. Dobson as much or more than any other Christian leader, and she is interested to see his response. I only started learning the truth about the 9/11 attacks last fall. It took me an entire year to convince my own parents to listen to me, and begin reviewing the evidence for themselves. Now that they have thoroughly and objectively taken a fresh look into all the available evidence, they too are now aware of how badly we have been deceived. They now fully support my mission to find out what really happened to 2,993 of our fellow countrymen that fateful September morning. My mom is very interested to see if/how Dr. Dobson will respond. Please read my open letter to Dr. Dobson and share your thoughts at.........

http://blandyland.com/?p=459

Does Christ's Church really stand for TRUTH & JUSTICE? That is the question!

Daniel Edd Bland III
www.BlandyLand.com
Posted by danielbland on November 15, 2009 at 6:15 PM

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