Friday, October 30, 2009
Homo "Gay Eradication Day"
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:43 AM
Lefty? Progressive? Got gay friends? Support gay rights? Don't spend your tourist dollars in Jamaica.
When THE STAR visited the area, a small group of residents pointed out an old community centre which is said to be the main 'hang out' spot for the lesbians. According to the residents the lesbians gather there almost nightly and can be seen hugging, kissing and even "touching".The residents say they are mostly worried about the lesbian group as they are most prevalent and influential. The number of persons in this group is said to be steadily increasing. In terms of the suspected gay men, the residents claim they are not as bold as the lesbians and are fewer but they too are expected to comply with the two-week notice.
No quotes from the authorities about protecting the gay men and lesbians in town where the "eradication" is under way. Because, of course, the authorities in Jamaica don't protect gays and lesbians from mob violence. Background on boycotting Jamaica is here. And if Barack Obama is going to send an openly gay ambassador anywhere, he should send one to Jamaica.
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2
Is that link for real? Here are some sample quotes from the report:
So they can't transcribe their quotes into written English? They just write them phonetically? WTF...
"Yu nuh si seh dem waa mash up di place an gi wi bad name, me haffi protect my yute dem from dem type a influence deh," one resident said while pointing out that they will not sit back and watch while their community falls into disrepute...
"Some yute deh bout di place whe wi hear seh gone di nex way. Wi neva actually ketch dem, but wi hear from good source who si dem out a road a par wid man weh known as 'fish'. Dem nuh nuff still eno, but dem affi lef to, wi nuh want none a dem in ya," another female resident added.
Another resident who was not afraid to point fingers at a specific group of youngsters said that the alleged gays are all friends and are well-known in the community. "Yu si dem bway deh weh a walk up an dung inna dem tight pants an ah bleach out dem face, a dem enuh, nuff a dem , a f .... t an a talk bout dem a danca," he told THE STAR.
So they can't transcribe their quotes into written English? They just write them phonetically? WTF...
5
@2,
Having read some Jamaican literature, that doesn't really surprise me. They seem to have some measure of, uh, pride in that, um, dialect. (I'm trying to be nice here.)
A gay ambassador would hardly be hobknobbing with the anti-gay know-nothings down there.
And it's funny how Dan thinks even one red cent of tourist dollars goes to Jamaicans and not the foreign corporations that own those resorts.
Having read some Jamaican literature, that doesn't really surprise me. They seem to have some measure of, uh, pride in that, um, dialect. (I'm trying to be nice here.)
A gay ambassador would hardly be hobknobbing with the anti-gay know-nothings down there.
And it's funny how Dan thinks even one red cent of tourist dollars goes to Jamaicans and not the foreign corporations that own those resorts.
7
Claire's right. 20070426 is even in the URL.
That said, Jamaica's record on gay rights hasn't improved one iota since this report, so there you go.
That said, Jamaica's record on gay rights hasn't improved one iota since this report, so there you go.
8
yay, let's attack a third world country's homophobia when we can't even support queers here in the US marching and fighting for equality!
9
This totally sucks. Jamaica is a great place that has great memories for me. I went there as a 17 year old on a mission trip that my parents and grandparents sent me on after some cash turned up due to a crooked lawyer after my grandfather died. My cousin and I were sent with my two uncles (each member representing one of my grandfather's children's families). I was chosen not just because of age but because I'd gotten myself into trouble earlier that year, expelled from school, and was on probation with the state of Illinois.
But because I was doing mission work, the judge waived my probationary condition that I not leave the state. In serious spiritual turmoil and against the church, I hated the idea of it, but I went along with it to get out of the house and because I'd never even been on an airplane before. And as a whole, I ended up not finding much reprehensible on the trip. We built a community building that was useful for more than just a church and taught bible school to the kids during the afternoon, but it wasn't as questionable as I had been afraid it would be and actually led me to a spiritual awakening.
But more importantly, I befriended one of my fellow missionaries, used to sneak out to a bar with him that had no problem serving underage white guys, and spent many hours drinking with this guy overlooking the ocean late into the night talking about life, our spiritual questions, and the future.
What I'm saying is, on this mission trip, I had my first gay kiss in Jamaica.
So while all anti-GLBT pisses me off, it pains me personally that stuff like this happens it Jamaica. I'd love to take my tourists dollars there and show that specific cliff to my current boyfriend or friends. But it's not a strong enough urge to get myself killed.
That said, does anybody know anything we can do to try to influence things there and support those who live there? In some ways, just like my mission trip, it feels like whitey butting in where they weren't asked, but in other ways, there's more than one type of truth that deserves to get spread to the whole world. Other than getting Obama to name an ambassador, what can we do other than bitch, moan, and not spend our gay friendly dollars there?
More...
But because I was doing mission work, the judge waived my probationary condition that I not leave the state. In serious spiritual turmoil and against the church, I hated the idea of it, but I went along with it to get out of the house and because I'd never even been on an airplane before. And as a whole, I ended up not finding much reprehensible on the trip. We built a community building that was useful for more than just a church and taught bible school to the kids during the afternoon, but it wasn't as questionable as I had been afraid it would be and actually led me to a spiritual awakening.
But more importantly, I befriended one of my fellow missionaries, used to sneak out to a bar with him that had no problem serving underage white guys, and spent many hours drinking with this guy overlooking the ocean late into the night talking about life, our spiritual questions, and the future.
What I'm saying is, on this mission trip, I had my first gay kiss in Jamaica.
So while all anti-GLBT pisses me off, it pains me personally that stuff like this happens it Jamaica. I'd love to take my tourists dollars there and show that specific cliff to my current boyfriend or friends. But it's not a strong enough urge to get myself killed.
That said, does anybody know anything we can do to try to influence things there and support those who live there? In some ways, just like my mission trip, it feels like whitey butting in where they weren't asked, but in other ways, there's more than one type of truth that deserves to get spread to the whole world. Other than getting Obama to name an ambassador, what can we do other than bitch, moan, and not spend our gay friendly dollars there?
10
Sherry Wolf Speaks: We’ve Only Just Begun to Fight
What’s Next for the LGBT Civil Rights Movement
LGBT Equality Panel and Rally featuring Sherry Wolf
7:00 pm, November 7, 2009
University of Washington, Sieg Hall, Room 134
LGBT Equality Panel and Rally: $5
Sexuality and Socialism
10:30 am, November 8, 2009
University of Washington, Thomson Hall
Single Conference Session: $5
Entire conference is $20-50 sliding scale, Pre-Register online at nwsocialistconference.org or at any ISO meeting or event.
Fresh from the National Equality March in Washington, DC, activist and author Sherry Wolf will be speaking twice at the University of Washington in Seattle as part of the Northwest Socialist Conference, organized by the International Socialist Organization.
On Saturday, November 7, at 7pm, she will be the keynote speaker on a panel entitled "We've Only Just Begun to Fight: What's Next for the LGBT Civil Rights Movement?" along with Seattle lgbt activist Lonnie Lopez and Portland lgbt activist Camille Avian-White. On Sunday, November 8, at 10.30am, she will be giving a talk on her recently published book "Sexuality and Socialism: The History, Politics, and Theory of LGBT Liberation." For more info and to get tickets, visit http://nwsocialistconference.org.
Sherry Wolf is the author of Sexuality and Socialism (Haymarket 2009), associate editor of the International Socialist Review and a National Equality March speaker and Steering Committee member. She is a leading member of the International Socialist Organization. Wolf is an associate editor of the International Socialist Review and has written for Alternet, Znet, Counterpunch, DissidentVoice, MrZine, New Politics, Socialist Worker, and many other progressive publications and Web sites. She is a popular public speaker on campuses nationwide and has appeared on radio shows from Pacifica’s Democracy Now! to NPR-affiliate KALW’s Your Call. Wolf is a long-time social justice activist since her student days in the anti-apartheid campus divestment movement through to today’s struggle for equal marriage rights. She graduated from Northwestern University with honors in Philosophy, yet adamantly agrees with Karl Marx: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
Sherry’s recent articles and talks:
No more waiting for crumbs:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/09/18/no…
We’ve just begun to fight:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/10/16/ju…
The disgusting sports sex scare:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/09/16/di…
The fight for LGBT equality on the job:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/08/11/lg…
The myth of the Black-gay divide:
http://socialistworker.org/2008/11/11/my…
Prop 8 is Going Down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKu9w4p30…
Sexuality and Socialism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXqc7m81v…
Cleve Jones, Sherry Wolf, and the Cast of Hair at the National Equality March:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Vtp2mNK…
Sponsored by International Socialist Organization Seattle and Portland branches, Socialist Worker, Haymarket Books and the International Socialist Review
For local information please contact nwconference@seattleiso.org or click seattleiso.org or portlandsocialists.org to connect with your local ISO branch.
More...
What’s Next for the LGBT Civil Rights Movement
LGBT Equality Panel and Rally featuring Sherry Wolf
7:00 pm, November 7, 2009
University of Washington, Sieg Hall, Room 134
LGBT Equality Panel and Rally: $5
Sexuality and Socialism
10:30 am, November 8, 2009
University of Washington, Thomson Hall
Single Conference Session: $5
Entire conference is $20-50 sliding scale, Pre-Register online at nwsocialistconference.org or at any ISO meeting or event.
Fresh from the National Equality March in Washington, DC, activist and author Sherry Wolf will be speaking twice at the University of Washington in Seattle as part of the Northwest Socialist Conference, organized by the International Socialist Organization.
On Saturday, November 7, at 7pm, she will be the keynote speaker on a panel entitled "We've Only Just Begun to Fight: What's Next for the LGBT Civil Rights Movement?" along with Seattle lgbt activist Lonnie Lopez and Portland lgbt activist Camille Avian-White. On Sunday, November 8, at 10.30am, she will be giving a talk on her recently published book "Sexuality and Socialism: The History, Politics, and Theory of LGBT Liberation." For more info and to get tickets, visit http://nwsocialistconference.org.
Sherry Wolf is the author of Sexuality and Socialism (Haymarket 2009), associate editor of the International Socialist Review and a National Equality March speaker and Steering Committee member. She is a leading member of the International Socialist Organization. Wolf is an associate editor of the International Socialist Review and has written for Alternet, Znet, Counterpunch, DissidentVoice, MrZine, New Politics, Socialist Worker, and many other progressive publications and Web sites. She is a popular public speaker on campuses nationwide and has appeared on radio shows from Pacifica’s Democracy Now! to NPR-affiliate KALW’s Your Call. Wolf is a long-time social justice activist since her student days in the anti-apartheid campus divestment movement through to today’s struggle for equal marriage rights. She graduated from Northwestern University with honors in Philosophy, yet adamantly agrees with Karl Marx: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
Sherry’s recent articles and talks:
No more waiting for crumbs:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/09/18/no…
We’ve just begun to fight:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/10/16/ju…
The disgusting sports sex scare:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/09/16/di…
The fight for LGBT equality on the job:
http://socialistworker.org/2009/08/11/lg…
The myth of the Black-gay divide:
http://socialistworker.org/2008/11/11/my…
Prop 8 is Going Down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKu9w4p30…
Sexuality and Socialism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXqc7m81v…
Cleve Jones, Sherry Wolf, and the Cast of Hair at the National Equality March:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Vtp2mNK…
Sponsored by International Socialist Organization Seattle and Portland branches, Socialist Worker, Haymarket Books and the International Socialist Review
For local information please contact nwconference@seattleiso.org or click seattleiso.org or portlandsocialists.org to connect with your local ISO branch.
11
@2, @5: That's Jamaican creole - you can sort of understand it in written form because it's heavily influenced by English, but it's not English. So it shouldn't be surprising that it's written differently, really.
12
over at cheril clarke's blog in may of 2007, she wrote about the april 2007 article. here's the link:
http://savvyplannersblog.blogspot.com/20…
i saw her old post, and called attention to it on my blog in march of this year:
http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2009/03/ja…
and i'm pleased dan is calling attention to it again today. there can never be too much attention on the plight of gay jamaicans. here is my post today on dan's piece:
http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2009/10/sa…
boycott jamaica!
http://savvyplannersblog.blogspot.com/20…
i saw her old post, and called attention to it on my blog in march of this year:
http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2009/03/ja…
and i'm pleased dan is calling attention to it again today. there can never be too much attention on the plight of gay jamaicans. here is my post today on dan's piece:
http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2009/10/sa…
boycott jamaica!
14
@ 11 - Yep, it's also called the Jamaican patois. It's sad: I used to think the patois was pretty cool, but in this case all I hear is "IGNORANT!"
I used to want to go to Jamaica sooooo bad and smoke lots and lots of ganja, but when I heard about how homophobic their culture is, I just said, "aw, crap".
I used to want to go to Jamaica sooooo bad and smoke lots and lots of ganja, but when I heard about how homophobic their culture is, I just said, "aw, crap".
16
@5 is correct, though: Lay the blame for this where it belongs. If you're patronizing places like Sandals or Club Med, whether they're in Jamaica or not, you're contributing to the problem.
18
This thread is dripping with racism, but on a Savage post concerning black people that really shouldn't be a surprise. Neo-colonialist impositions are no longer acceptable mr Savage, so your marching orders for a "gay ambassador" will only get you as far as your fans in this blog, nothing more.
The sovereign parliamentary democracy that is Jamaica does not need to bow-down to your will, they are sovereign, so please never set foot on the island if you intend to bark orders at them that go against their religious beliefs and moral values. Not that such a thing was ever in questions since you have a palpable contempt for black culture, so the Caribbean islands have nothing to worry about concerning a possible visit of people like you who come to impose their ideology on them. It won't work mr Savage.
Long live Jamaica, it's proud people with a noble history in the struggle against colonialism, they gave us Mr Marcus Garvey, the father of Pan-Africanism, of our colors, amongst the many artist, poets, educators and freedom fighters who have enrich the world and made it better.
Amen.
May God keep blessing them, with beauty, intelligence and foresight and keep shinning on them as a great people. For they have placed Him before anything else that this world has to offer.
The sovereign parliamentary democracy that is Jamaica does not need to bow-down to your will, they are sovereign, so please never set foot on the island if you intend to bark orders at them that go against their religious beliefs and moral values. Not that such a thing was ever in questions since you have a palpable contempt for black culture, so the Caribbean islands have nothing to worry about concerning a possible visit of people like you who come to impose their ideology on them. It won't work mr Savage.
Long live Jamaica, it's proud people with a noble history in the struggle against colonialism, they gave us Mr Marcus Garvey, the father of Pan-Africanism, of our colors, amongst the many artist, poets, educators and freedom fighters who have enrich the world and made it better.
"Jamaica, Land We Love", "Eternal Father, bless our land
Guide us with Thy mighty hand
Keep us free from evil powers"
Amen.
May God keep blessing them, with beauty, intelligence and foresight and keep shinning on them as a great people. For they have placed Him before anything else that this world has to offer.
19
LovesChildPorn, does it not disturb you that 50 years ago articles like this couls have been written about the American south if you just replace the terms for gays and lesbian for african-americans?
21
@18
It's not racism, it's being rightfully angry that a community is known for killing people for being different, you ignorant cow.
Jamaica has white populations as well as black (though they are not as prominent), and it doesn't matter what race it is - this kind of attitude is sickening.
'kissing, hugging'? They're driving people away for THAT? Read Thy Bible on Tolerance and Love, Hate the Sin, not the sinner.
If you find us racist (you do not even know who we are), then why the FUCK are you here? Go and do something that's actually important, like I don't know... actually raise your kid to be a decent person - and less on shrilling about how the sky is falling.
It's not racism, it's being rightfully angry that a community is known for killing people for being different, you ignorant cow.
Jamaica has white populations as well as black (though they are not as prominent), and it doesn't matter what race it is - this kind of attitude is sickening.
'kissing, hugging'? They're driving people away for THAT? Read Thy Bible on Tolerance and Love, Hate the Sin, not the sinner.
If you find us racist (you do not even know who we are), then why the FUCK are you here? Go and do something that's actually important, like I don't know... actually raise your kid to be a decent person - and less on shrilling about how the sky is falling.
22
@18 - Ah, a hallmark of the truly religious: why convert the heathen when you can just kill 'im? Bonus points for claiming that condemning straight Jamaicans for wanting to drive out and kill gay Jamaicans is being racist!
Truly, you speak the words Jesus himself would.
Truly, you speak the words Jesus himself would.
23
@ 18, This is why your place in Hell will be hotter than mine, LC. "Thou shalt not kill" also means, thou shalt not condone ruthless murder. And there you go again, bearing false witness, as this thread is as free of racism as your head is of brains. Do you really think just believing in Jesus Christ gives you license to spit in God's face like you do?
24
@ 21 They're not "killing" anyone, they're giving people a fair warning that certain behaviors (behaviors not ethnicity, skin color, religion) are not acceptable withing their community. They have every God-given right to uphold the moral standards that they hold dear in their community and in their nation.
I find it quite arrogant and hinting of an air of supremacy for a white elitist like mr Savage (and most of you) to be throwing aspersions, accusations and worst of all threats to hurt a sovereign nation. Doing that 'Shini' not only exemplifies real ignorance but an affront unto a sovereign government. We here in the U.S under the new administration have hopefully left behind those tactics with the criminal Bush years.
Read 2,3,4,5 to see the racism you deny, tho, in all honesty, they're not solely to blame because mr Savage sets the tone here for that.
Like it or not Jamaica's population is primarily of African descent, it has other ethnic minorities (who by the way, enjoy all the rights and freedoms as their fellow Jamaicans) but there's no doubt that due to its, culture, values, cuisine, religion and demographics, Jamaica is a black democracy. And when people like the those in those first comments say or write things like they did you know well what they're really trying to say.
Don't like Jamaica, fine, then don't visit it or the rest of the Caribbean for that matter, cause you have no right to " influence things there ", your culture is not better than theirs.
They have fought, shed blood, tears and endless sweat to determine their future and to give people (like me) in the diaspora in other places a sense of worth, so they do not need you nor Savage coming by to teach them how to live their lives.
I for one know where I will be taking my next vacation with my family. I already had my mind set on it, but now, in the face of so much vitriol coming out of some elitists sectors not only will I be taking my family but I will be an active supporter of all Jamaican products I can find.
Not that they had to anything to loose much with most of you here cause I doubt any here were consumers of them to begin with, you're really more of shall we say, the target market of euro-related products. So no lost love there.
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I find it quite arrogant and hinting of an air of supremacy for a white elitist like mr Savage (and most of you) to be throwing aspersions, accusations and worst of all threats to hurt a sovereign nation. Doing that 'Shini' not only exemplifies real ignorance but an affront unto a sovereign government. We here in the U.S under the new administration have hopefully left behind those tactics with the criminal Bush years.
Read 2,3,4,5 to see the racism you deny, tho, in all honesty, they're not solely to blame because mr Savage sets the tone here for that.
Like it or not Jamaica's population is primarily of African descent, it has other ethnic minorities (who by the way, enjoy all the rights and freedoms as their fellow Jamaicans) but there's no doubt that due to its, culture, values, cuisine, religion and demographics, Jamaica is a black democracy. And when people like the those in those first comments say or write things like they did you know well what they're really trying to say.
Don't like Jamaica, fine, then don't visit it or the rest of the Caribbean for that matter, cause you have no right to " influence things there ", your culture is not better than theirs.
They have fought, shed blood, tears and endless sweat to determine their future and to give people (like me) in the diaspora in other places a sense of worth, so they do not need you nor Savage coming by to teach them how to live their lives.
I for one know where I will be taking my next vacation with my family. I already had my mind set on it, but now, in the face of so much vitriol coming out of some elitists sectors not only will I be taking my family but I will be an active supporter of all Jamaican products I can find.
Not that they had to anything to loose much with most of you here cause I doubt any here were consumers of them to begin with, you're really more of shall we say, the target market of euro-related products. So no lost love there.
25
@24 - The whole "any means necessary" sentiment of getting rid of the gay people in their community combined with Jamaica's history of violent treatment of gays leaves very little ambiguity for what they mean by "any means necessary" for the gays that don't leave. The fact that you don't see this makes you a fool. The fact that you condone it makes you evil.
26
um, the lgbt community in jamaica has been rejecting calls for boycotts, saying they'd be counterproductive.
http://www.365gay.com/news/jamaican-gays…
The whole thing seems kinda colonialist.
http://www.365gay.com/news/jamaican-gays…
The whole thing seems kinda colonialist.
27
When anyone suffers persecution for who they are, none of us are free.
When anyone fears that their life is in danger because of what they are, none of us are free.
When anyone fears that their life is in danger because of what they are, none of us are free.
28
@ 24, this thread was free of racism til you showed up.
Hope your soul is shrouded in asbestos, because it's going to need it after you die.
Hope your soul is shrouded in asbestos, because it's going to need it after you die.
29
I am all too familiar with the regressive and bigoted attitudes of so many residents of Jamaica, and I would not set in Jamaica for all the money in the world. For some reason, this small country (together with other Caribbean nations) harbours a deep-seated hatred of gay people that is manifest in the beatings, murders, and savage attacks suffered by Jamaican residents...
Many black residents of Jamaica insist that homosexuality is “imported” and is a reflection of old “colonial” attitudes. I reject this contention – homosexuality has been found by anthropologists to exist in every society, even in those societies where the punishment for homosexuality is death, or life imprisonment. The prevalence of homosexuality remains remarkably constant across nations – estimates are that male homosexuals comprise somewhere between four to 10 per cent of the population, whereas lesbians comprise a somewhat smaller percentage of the population…
PHILIP CHANDLER
Many black residents of Jamaica insist that homosexuality is “imported” and is a reflection of old “colonial” attitudes. I reject this contention – homosexuality has been found by anthropologists to exist in every society, even in those societies where the punishment for homosexuality is death, or life imprisonment. The prevalence of homosexuality remains remarkably constant across nations – estimates are that male homosexuals comprise somewhere between four to 10 per cent of the population, whereas lesbians comprise a somewhat smaller percentage of the population…
PHILIP CHANDLER
30
*sigh*
"To act justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly..."
Such a simple message, but seems lost to the one who claims to have found the light here.
*sigh*
"To act justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly..."
Such a simple message, but seems lost to the one who claims to have found the light here.
*sigh*
31
Lovechild you are so predictable. And willfully stupid. Do you even know how to use google?
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0…
You're are too pathetic for words.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0…
You're are too pathetic for words.
32
@24, you are defending lynchings? Seriously? I guess it is okay if the recipient is gay and thus it is not "killing."
As for sovereignty, I remember in history class learning about a Republican asshole who trampled on the sovereignty of the Confederate States of America to force his Emancipation Proclamation on the people with no regard for the culture and values of the Confederacy.
As for sovereignty, I remember in history class learning about a Republican asshole who trampled on the sovereignty of the Confederate States of America to force his Emancipation Proclamation on the people with no regard for the culture and values of the Confederacy.
33
24 - What about the culture of gay and lesbian Jamaicans? (Who do, of course, exist.) It's not in their culture to want to persecute people for their sexuality, but they too are culturally Jamaican, just not in the sense of being rabidly homophobic. You seem to be suggesting that Jamaican culture is some kind of consistent, all encompassing mass participated in by each and every citizen of the nation - and also that Jamaican homophobia should be immune from criticism because it's supposedly racist to 'impose' the values of another country - in this case, refraining from committing murder on the basis of whom someone wishes to sleep with. Do you also think it's racist to oppose female genital mutilation in Egypt or the death penalty for adultery in Saudi Arabia?
35
Jamaica is the arm pit of the Caribbean. The State is repressive, elitist, racist and violent and it follows that the people mimic the State. The last Prime Minister was harassed from office for being from a garrison community and being low class.
I hate the way the "Sovereign" nation of Jamaica treats all its people, not just gays. Sovereignty should not allow a government to violate anyone's human rights
I hate the way the "Sovereign" nation of Jamaica treats all its people, not just gays. Sovereignty should not allow a government to violate anyone's human rights
36
@24,
Dan is saying "don't spend your tourist dollars in Jamaica." How the hell is that a THREAT?
@33 already said what I wanted to say: is opposing excision in Africa racist? After all, "they're not 'killing' anyone" (except for an unfortunate few who die from infection) and one could say "They have every God-given right to uphold the moral standards that they hold dear in their community and in their nation." Oh yeah, that last quotation could have been said of the Taliban as well.
Dan is saying "don't spend your tourist dollars in Jamaica." How the hell is that a THREAT?
@33 already said what I wanted to say: is opposing excision in Africa racist? After all, "they're not 'killing' anyone" (except for an unfortunate few who die from infection) and one could say "They have every God-given right to uphold the moral standards that they hold dear in their community and in their nation." Oh yeah, that last quotation could have been said of the Taliban as well.
37
Ok, who wants to explain to folks like Lovechild(Porn) that the blacks of Jamaica are the colonizers. Or have they convinced themselves that they were the original inhabitants of that island. I think there are those who would disagree with such a view.
And national soverignty does not mean you get to do whatever you want, especially when those actions violate human rights. Just because someone shrouds their bigotry in the "loving" words of scripture, doesn't validate the the bigotry. Clean gloves hide dirty hands, and in this case, Jamaica's hands are dirtier than most.
And national soverignty does not mean you get to do whatever you want, especially when those actions violate human rights. Just because someone shrouds their bigotry in the "loving" words of scripture, doesn't validate the the bigotry. Clean gloves hide dirty hands, and in this case, Jamaica's hands are dirtier than most.
38
Indeed, homophobia is rampant in the Caribbean Islands. But I think its the Christian religion that contributes to black homophobia. As a Black Haitian lesbian, Christianity is the worse thing that ever happened to black people during the colonial era. The Anglo-Caribbean has a strong Christian influence and the Rastafarian religion is bible based and they also use a literal approach to certain biblical verses. But don't dismiss the Caribbean as simply a hotbed of Homophobia.
For example, Haiti.
Homophobia is alive and well in Haiti. But Haiti is a country, where its culture is very unique. Haiti's culture is even more connected to the West African tradition than Jamaica. Vodou is tolerant of gay and lesbian people because the Haitian version of Vodou contain pre-Christian characteristics. If you are a gay or a Lesbian Haitian, many find solace in Vodou. Vodou is already a misunderstood religion, but it focus on spiritual empowerment. It would be nice if LGBT people from the U.S. can spend their tourist dollars in Haiti and look more into the interesting Vodou culture and help develop this country. Of course, like I said homophobia is strong in Haiti. But I can tell you from experience a gay and lesbian Haitian will be teased or mocked but not get killed because of their orientation. Hunger and poverty is a bigger problem for most Haitian LGBTs than Homophobia. You would think Jamaica would get think that way too. But Jamaicans have never been "Haitian hungry or Haitian poor"...now that's real struggle!
There was recently a huge demonstration of Gay men in Haiti addressing the issue of AIDS. I wonder if that would happen in Jamaica? My point is to invest in another Caribbean country that has the potential to take a step in the right direction, than hopeless Jamaica.
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For example, Haiti.
Homophobia is alive and well in Haiti. But Haiti is a country, where its culture is very unique. Haiti's culture is even more connected to the West African tradition than Jamaica. Vodou is tolerant of gay and lesbian people because the Haitian version of Vodou contain pre-Christian characteristics. If you are a gay or a Lesbian Haitian, many find solace in Vodou. Vodou is already a misunderstood religion, but it focus on spiritual empowerment. It would be nice if LGBT people from the U.S. can spend their tourist dollars in Haiti and look more into the interesting Vodou culture and help develop this country. Of course, like I said homophobia is strong in Haiti. But I can tell you from experience a gay and lesbian Haitian will be teased or mocked but not get killed because of their orientation. Hunger and poverty is a bigger problem for most Haitian LGBTs than Homophobia. You would think Jamaica would get think that way too. But Jamaicans have never been "Haitian hungry or Haitian poor"...now that's real struggle!
There was recently a huge demonstration of Gay men in Haiti addressing the issue of AIDS. I wonder if that would happen in Jamaica? My point is to invest in another Caribbean country that has the potential to take a step in the right direction, than hopeless Jamaica.
39
I prefer good weed to silly faggots, who usually talk too much about make up and shopping anyway.
40
Lucky for Jamaicans "of color", and those that support them in their bigotry, they got civil rights before gays in this world. Now when they make the lifestyle choice to be bigots they can just whine about imperialism and racism when they are called on their crap. Tired, tired, tired.
41
I really hate it how people use moments like this not to unite and show support for our queer brothers and sisters in Jamaica - hmm, Jamaicans who are also gay? gays who are also Jamaican? who'd have thought? - but to create division along lines of oppression. I might point out that withholding tourism money from Jamaica will also hurt Jamaican queers. We need to be more discerning in how we fight homophobia, not use these moments as a reason to get pissed off and grandstand but as an opportunity to find new ways to ally ourselves with gay queer fag people the world over! Many of whom obviously have it much worse than us.
@curtisp #40 - perfect example of what I'm talking about it. How do you expect anyone to take your oppression seriously when you use it as an example to belittle the struggles of others? Grow up and remember that what you're doing is just whining to yourself until you can make others hear you. Too bad you can't show that courtesy to the queers of Jamaica.
@curtisp #40 - perfect example of what I'm talking about it. How do you expect anyone to take your oppression seriously when you use it as an example to belittle the struggles of others? Grow up and remember that what you're doing is just whining to yourself until you can make others hear you. Too bad you can't show that courtesy to the queers of Jamaica.
42
#41 - My sympathy is with the queers of Jamaica. What I am sick of is people sniveling about "racism" and "imperialism" whenever "people of color" are called on their gay bashing. Being black, religious and having a history of being oppressed, (which is what the majority of the worlds population has also had to contend with), does not excuse ones bigotry. My post was a sarcastic response to some of the nonsense on this blog not an attack on gay people in Jamaica.
43
Oh by the way #41 - Are you assuming that I am gay? Sorry, but I am relatively un- oppressed. Many would call me the oppressor. Especially Lovechild; it appears that in her universe I am an "imperialist". Tired, tired, tired.
44
What blows me away about Dan Savage posting this news item is that if gays are indeed being killed or warned that they might be killed in Jamaica, his best logic and suggestion is to boycott Jamaica. What about these people who are being hunted down? So they're not worth a shout out to his readers to support endangered LGBT Jamaicans?
No, it's not about the support of LGBTs in danger or the possibility of these people being slaughtered. Dan Savage could care less. And obviously so could a good number of his readers. I knew that he was a phony but I just didn't know how transparent he was until I happened on this blog and this post.
I won't be back. Now take your "tourist dollars" and boycott that.
No, it's not about the support of LGBTs in danger or the possibility of these people being slaughtered. Dan Savage could care less. And obviously so could a good number of his readers. I knew that he was a phony but I just didn't know how transparent he was until I happened on this blog and this post.
I won't be back. Now take your "tourist dollars" and boycott that.
45
Has anybody pointed out that the original story appeared in the Jamaica Star over 2 years ago. A follow-up would be interesting to find out what ended up happening. Possibly nothing.
As for the patois, while some of us find it funny and ignorant, it is actually the language that most Jamaicans use when talking amongst themselves, comparable to the Creole that is spoken by most Haitians.
As for the patois, while some of us find it funny and ignorant, it is actually the language that most Jamaicans use when talking amongst themselves, comparable to the Creole that is spoken by most Haitians.
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