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News & ArtsWednesday, October 21, 2009
Politics McGinn vs. Mallahan, Round II: "Gloves Off"
Posted by Eli Sanders on Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Everyone, including KING 5, is saying that tonight's debate—taped earlier today—is a brawl. That's not surprising. The ballots have arrived in mailboxes, people are voting every day, and Mike McGinn just seriously altered his position on one of the central issues in the mayor's race: the deep-bore tunnel downtown.
Mallahan immediately attacked him for destroying the voters trust. McGinn responded that he would "continue to ask tough questions" even if he's now willing, as mayor, to execute the agreement to build the tunnel. But the strategic question for McGinn, who's behind in the polls, remains:
What to do when you're sure you're going to be attacked as a flip-flopper or worse?
The answer: Attack first. And that's what it sounds like McGinn did tonight.
Livestream here. And here we go:
7:01 Seattle Times reporter Jim Brunner wins best hair, hands down.
7:03 A bland opening statement by Mallahan about "moving forward"—and, surprisingly, no attacks on McGinn for his new tunnel position.
7:04 McGinn takes the tunnel question head on, says he still opposes it and is still committed to fighting cost overruns. But, now that the city council has unanimously agreed to build it, he will abide by the plan as mayor.
7:05 First question goes to McGinn and it's about... the tunnel. McGinn repeats his new attempt to thread the needle between opposition to the idea and support for "the role of a mayor in a democracy." Mallahan responds: "I just don't understand where Mike is... I simply am confused and don't trust where is today on the tunnel."
7:07 McGinn pounces: "Joe, you don't trust me? Your campaign is funded and run by those who stand to make millions on the tunnel... I don't know how we can trust you to defend Seattle and the people's interest."
7:08 Mallahan replies that he's got plenty of support from trustable insidery insiders. So trust him.
7:10 McGinn stares straight into the camera, locks his fingers in a sort of double fist on the table in front of him, and returns again and again to the idea that he'll defend the people of Seattle against cost overruns while "Joe Mallahan says 'We can live with it.'"
7:12 Mallahan smirks, blinks, fidgets with the papers in front of him and complains about how McGinn is "obfuscating."
7:15 New topic, schools. Zzzzzzz. "The public in Seattle strongly supports schools," McGinn says. He declines to say he'll take over the schools as mayor, calling instead for a "public discussion" about who should be in charge if things don't improve. Mallahan promises to "hold accountable" the school board and superindent, but says he wouldn't take the schools over while McGinn would. "He wants to wage war, not only with Olympia, not only with the city council, he wants to take over the school board," Mallahan says.
7:16 Jean Enerson notes that Mallahan doesn't have anything about education on his web site. Ooops.
7:18 Linda Brill wants to know: "At the end of your four year term, how will you make my life better?" Mallahan starts off by correcting her—he plans to have an eight-year term—and then talks about having an open waterfront, less congestion, more density, and a better economy. While he talks, the split-screen shows McGinn looking down, collecting his thoughts, and... muttering to himself? silently practicing his next hit?
7:20 McGinn's vision for a city that Linda Brill will like better: more light rail, better mass transit in general, and a more affordable, livable urban core.
7:22 Brunner—again, best hair of the night—asks the experience question. McGinn talks about his "years of experience working to create change in our neighborhoods and in our city" and his ability to engage people with an exciting vision for the future. Mallahan says: "Mike just doesn't really get it." The city is too big for a guy like McGinn to handle, he continues. It needs a businessman—like him. And then a bunch of somewhat random talking points from Mallahan: "Mike is about things. I am about people. We have to get this economy back on track. We have to protect working family jobs. And that is my vision for moving Seattle forward."
7:29 They agree on one thing: maroon ties, stark white shirts, and black suits.
7:30 Mallahan, faced with a question about 520, brings it back to the tunnel: "He has one solution, which is tear down the viaduct, flood our streets with cars—it would be an environmental and economic disaster."
7:31 McGinn responds that Mallahan seems to be becoming "a one-issue candidate." Loud laughs from the McGinn supporters in the audience.
7:33 Mallahan declines to take a position on the Ballard link of the Burke Gilman trail, saying it's currently being litigated. McGinn points out that one of the litigants is the city—which means the city has clearly taken a position—and someone who wants to be mayor of the city should therefore be willing to take a position. McGinn, for his part, says he supports the city's vision for the trail.
7:36 Time for them to question each other. Mallahan asks McGinn what experience he has that can assure voters he's ready to run the city. McGinn goes with the idea that the conduct of his campaign shows how he'd run the city—with openness, responsiveness, and vision. Then he attacks Mallahan for his spokesman, his big-money contributors, and his remoteness.
7:38 Mallahan calls that "poppycock."
7:39 McGinn asks Mallahan what he'll do about tunnel cost overruns, and Mallahan replies that he'll try to remove legislative language putting Seattle on the hook for cost overruns.
7:41 Mallahan seems to be laughing at how aggressive McGinn is being toward him—leaning in, pointing fingers, showing frustration—but it's backfiring. The laughter doesn't make Mallahan look above it all. It makes him look aloof, un-serious, not willing to fight for his position and more interested in mouthing those talking points that McGinn says his expensive consultants stuff into him.
7:45 On the second round of panhandling discussion, Mallahan sort of shakes his head and declines to talk anymore. "I think my position's reasonable, and I think Mike's position is reasonable." Comes off as if he doesn't know the subject well enough to talk about it at length. McGinn, clearly the better communicator here, says: "I've said my peace." He waves off the second round with his hand, but gives the impression that he's said thousands of words on it already, could say thousands more, but doesn't want to waste anyone's time.
7:50 Mallahan's internal monologue keeps slipping into his external monologue. "I'm out of time," he interjects, cutting himself off during a discussion of the head tax, but then, oddly, continuing to talk anyway.
7:52 A question on whether they'll spend taxpayer funds to defend in court the new ban on guns in city parks. Mallahan has "reservations" about the ban—and then admits that those reservations have become great fodder for a McGinn robocall and asks McGinn to defend the robocall. "I support the gun ban in parks," McGinn says. "We should defend that in court if necessary." Mallahan feels differently. "And that," McGinn says, "is what my robocall said." Mallahan's caught. He doesn't want to wast time reciting the robocall, never mind repeat its charges for a television audience. So he accuses McGinn of being soft on public safety.
7:54 McGinn destroys him on this. Gets angry that Mallahan has accused him of being soft on public safety ("Uh huh," Mallahan says) and points out that he spent two recent evenings talking about it—one of them at a forum Mallahan skipped, where mothers of victims of gun violence spoke.
7:56 Closing statements. McGinn asks people to listen to their words, sure, but also look at their actions. He seems confident and in control. Mallahan seems to be reeling. He jokes that he hopes people "enjoyed the show tonight," seems to know it will be cast as a brawl—which it was, with him the clear loser—and then rambles about a few examples of his community involvement.
7:58 And we're done.
Well.
Anyone who watched this debate saw a tough, articulate man who was willing to defend his positions—and the citizens of Seattle—all the way to the mat if necessary. That man wasn't Joe Mallahan. McGinn killed tonight. Best debate of the season so far, and best campaign performance by McGinn since this whole thing kicked off. The question: How many people were watching, and how many of them changed their minds?
9
Mike looks very mayoral in his suit and with the demeanor he's projecting - Joe looks unsettled.
Body blows rapid fire by Mike on Joe and by two reporters.
Ouch!
Body blows rapid fire by Mike on Joe and by two reporters.
Ouch!
12
Joe just admitted he wants to loot all the voters in North Seattle who pay for schools.
WTF - he's talking about snow plows? Has Joe gone off his rocker?
WTF - he's talking about snow plows? Has Joe gone off his rocker?
16
Mallahan reminds me of that guy who gives a presentation at the company meeting that causes you to think "thank god he's not my boss".
18
Mallahan doesn't like the voters - he's scared to talk to us, while McGinn has no problem with that.
And what's with this trying to pretend parents don't phone the Mayor and City Council about schools ... it's like Joe's trying to weasel his way out of being a Mayor and wants to be a hired executive with a high-paid consulting team ... we can't afford that.
And what's with this trying to pretend parents don't phone the Mayor and City Council about schools ... it's like Joe's trying to weasel his way out of being a Mayor and wants to be a hired executive with a high-paid consulting team ... we can't afford that.
21
"I want a nice city. Uh. Uh. Uh. A pretty city. One might say a GREAT CITY. I think Seattle deserves a GREAT CITY. Black people. Mike. Congestion."
22
How can we have a lot of work left to do if Mike's already been working for us 20 years? That's impossible.
23
dude, Jean Enerson had to remind Joe to talk about the question not go off the reservation ... ouch!
and now he shows he has no idea what current single family zoning is ...
and now he shows he has no idea what current single family zoning is ...
24
Also, I want to bring us back to this: Mallahan said snow plows are more important than education.
And now he's discussing the minutiae of planning.
And now he's discussing the minutiae of planning.
25
Joe hates our kids, Baconcat.
And working class people - he thinks they should be quiet and not uppity.
And working class people - he thinks they should be quiet and not uppity.
26
Has anybody noticed that Joe ties his tie double windsor and Mike ties his single windsor?
This is what happens when you watch debates while drinking.
This is what happens when you watch debates while drinking.
29
Oooh, no eye contact by McGinn there. I don't think he realized Joe was looking at him, but it comes off a little petty...
30
which high-paid consultant came up with Mallahan's new slogan?
I mean, the fake grin ain't working.
Wow, since I ran multiple precincts during the primary, does that make me more qualified than Mallahan?
I mean, the fake grin ain't working.
Wow, since I ran multiple precincts during the primary, does that make me more qualified than Mallahan?
32
Aargh with the "driving" shit. That's how the Gates Foundation makes all their people talk too. Urgh. Oh...Obamaaaaa!
36
Did anyone else hear the T-Mobile jingle when Joe mentioned how great of service he provided? soon, this will be his campaign spokesperson...
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009…
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009…
39
@36 - Welsh chix rule.
Nice points on 520 by Mike, while Joe obviously hasn't been paying attention. Mike knows the options at this point.
Nice points on 520 by Mike, while Joe obviously hasn't been paying attention. Mike knows the options at this point.
47
ow - Jean Enerson had to remind Joe of the question again - Mike is drifting off the trail and a truck's about to clock him - "I wish there was a way" not "I support finishing it" as Mike says.
Guess Joe is stuck in fantasy land - Mallahan for the loss on this one.
Guess Joe is stuck in fantasy land - Mallahan for the loss on this one.
49
Oooh, bad policy to comment on finishing the link because it's in litigation? Hmmm. I swear Joebeth looks kinda distracted by Jean's raisiny beauty.
51
@46 - yeah, but I guess he never goes to Ballard.
Maybe one of his consultants goes there and can answer the question better for him after tonight.
Maybe one of his consultants goes there and can answer the question better for him after tonight.
53
Mike's talking directly to him and Joe's looking down and then the sheepish grin - wow - bad form.
Maybe he can hire a spokesperson to fix it.
Maybe he can hire a spokesperson to fix it.
55
ooh - it's murdering time ... two strikes by Joe in answering a question - will he go for three and strike out?
58
Joe is reminding us that we're going to be broke if we build the Billionaire's Tunnel and Mercer Millionaire's Mess and he'll bend over to let people like Slade Gorton screw we Seattle taxpayers.
... wow ....
... wow ....
61
Wow, Mallahan just wiped out any and all "voter's remorse" I was having about having already voted for McGinn. What an ass he was tonight. Talk about going negative to cover your own inadequacies!
68
Weirdly , Mallahan made a good point on the overrun constitutionality, but is a piss-poor show presenter compared to McGinn. Ooh, Mike's hitting Joe with the Sightline details - I bet he's pretty sure Joe's never heard of Sightline at all.
70
every time they crack down in Belltown and Pioneer Square, the panhandlers and drunks come to the Hill, Ballard, and Fremont.
71
The bottom line is that McGinn is as good a debater as he always has been, but he has peaked whileMallahan has pretty well caught up with him. At this rate the tortoise will pass the hare at the finish line on Nov.3 by a considerable margin. The question is whether that will be in single or double digits.
75
Mallahan thinks being Mayor is some kind of game.
McGinn knows being Mayor is serious business.
Many issues from McGinn and joshing and no answers from Mallahan - WTF?
McGinn knows being Mayor is serious business.
Many issues from McGinn and joshing and no answers from Mallahan - WTF?
77
parking and head tax - is he working for outside of Seattle people? cause the only people that talk about that crap don't live in Seattle, they live outside of it. Maybe Mallahan is too comfy with his "elite" buddies.
78
Maybe Joe's drunk ... or did he get too excited by the poll numbers from old white people with landlines? Not sure, Baconcat.
79
So basically, Mallahan is going to withdraw a major source of funding for the city's AWV corridor improvements.
82
Joe hates our kids and wants crazy men with guns to shoot them in our parks.
Joe just lost most votes from mothers who are independent. They'll smile at their husbands, tell them they're voting for Joe, and fill in the box for Mike while he's drinking a beer.
Joe just lost most votes from mothers who are independent. They'll smile at their husbands, tell them they're voting for Joe, and fill in the box for Mike while he's drinking a beer.
83
He's flummoxed and dazzled, Baconcat. Every time he looks in McGinn's direction he's bewitched by Jean in his line of sight, plus he has none of Mike's stagecraft. And he needs to powder that big forehead.
85
He's said McGinn was right 3 times tonight, and used that to back off twice.
Oh jesus, Mallahan is a fucking prick.
Oh jesus, Mallahan is a fucking prick.
89
Joe's desperate - pulling out the Catholic card (yeah, I used to volunteer and go to the Wallinford Wurst Fest).
92
Yawn...I am pretty sure most sloggers could argue the positions of either candidate better than the candidates themselves.
McGinn still loses because the Deep Bore Tunnel is not the main issue for Seattle voters. Everytime he says it is, he loses another voter.
McGinn still loses because the Deep Bore Tunnel is not the main issue for Seattle voters. Everytime he says it is, he loses another voter.
93
I just sent in $50 to McGinn. Vote with ballots, support with dollars, even if you've only got 50 of them.
94
"I wish I had the votes to stop it, but right now I don't."
I see Mike is planning another flip flop in the future... that will be fun to hang out on the clothes line.
I see Mike is planning another flip flop in the future... that will be fun to hang out on the clothes line.
95
Advocacy "journalism" at its finest. Nice work Eli, did McGinn promise you a position after he's elected? He won't be, but kudos for your efforts.
Too bad Mallahan and Hutchison will both win in landslides.
Too bad Mallahan and Hutchison will both win in landslides.
97
@94: Let's add it to Joe's "education is important, but it's more important to make sure we have snow plows..." or "You know, Mike is right, so let's let that one go right now" or Joe's stance against a major funding source for the waterfront, or his obsession with the tunnel, or skipping 4 questions, or refusing to support the Burke-Gilman trail, or his lack of understanding of his own signature issue...
98
Personality-wise, you can tell that Mallahan is used to getting exactly what he wants. McGinn is used to people not agreeing with him, and having to argue and scrap for what he needs. You stick those two guys in a room together and the scrapper always comes out with a fully belly.
99
I already voted for McGinn, but now that he's no longer crazy insane about fighting against the tunnel, he also has my wife's vote. Car drivers for McGinn!!
100
On the photo Eli posted at the top of the page it looks like McGinn is giving Mallahan a kiss.
How sweet.
How sweet.
104
I really appreciate the liveblogging, as I am far too lazy to watch TV, or even read a full transcript (which wouldn't convey emotions, or hair styles, even). Thanks.
Also, please correct "I've said my peace." to ""I've said my piece." @ 7:45 above.
Also, please correct "I've said my peace." to ""I've said my piece." @ 7:45 above.
107
McGinn is unable to answer the question about his management ability in running a 10,000 person government. He went right into his campaign structure, and who is funding Mallahan's campaign.
He has sidestepped this question twice, and it is hurting him to not have a viable answer.
This is an executive position, not a lobbyist/campaign that happens to last for 4 years.
And, about 520, Mallahan could at least identify that there are A-L options under study. McGinn wants to unwind the work that has gone into planning 520? That if fucking stupid. The east side and the state have been waiting for the west side decision and he wants to go back and try for 4 lanes?
He has no clue.
He has sidestepped this question twice, and it is hurting him to not have a viable answer.
This is an executive position, not a lobbyist/campaign that happens to last for 4 years.
And, about 520, Mallahan could at least identify that there are A-L options under study. McGinn wants to unwind the work that has gone into planning 520? That if fucking stupid. The east side and the state have been waiting for the west side decision and he wants to go back and try for 4 lanes?
He has no clue.
108
Herr Baker @107
Having spent many years in a big corporation, Mallahan is instantly familiar to me as an empty-headed middle manager. Our nation's companies are full of them. No ideas, no opinions, no decisions, no executive experience, just a knack for staying out of trouble and riding coattails.
Having spent many years in a big corporation, Mallahan is instantly familiar to me as an empty-headed middle manager. Our nation's companies are full of them. No ideas, no opinions, no decisions, no executive experience, just a knack for staying out of trouble and riding coattails.
109
Kudos to McGinn for recognizing that during this long voting process that you can start with one position, mop up those votes, than switch to another and catch even more voters!
Still, I like him.
Now: is a tunnel really worth $2 or $4 or $8 billion dollars to all of the 600,000 residents of Seattle? Isn't there something else more important to spend that money? Or is it worth spending $8,000 to $10,000 per Seattlite to be able to scoot from West Seattle to Interbay in 20 minutes rather than 35? (What'd the library cost? About a tenth the price of the tunnel?)
Frankly, the city/state should just privatize the whole tunnel on a 40 year toll concession, and see how many companies want to take it on. My bet is ZERO.
The tunnel is just one thing. This whole election is a big old sham issue: if no one wants to build the tunnel, let's wait for the the next quake so Seattle can move on with more important matters like redoing the sclerotic planning process.
Not that Seattle will move on. It's more important to debate the issues and make sure all sides are listened to than to do anything. Empathy, not leadership, is what wins elections in this city.
Still, I like him.
Now: is a tunnel really worth $2 or $4 or $8 billion dollars to all of the 600,000 residents of Seattle? Isn't there something else more important to spend that money? Or is it worth spending $8,000 to $10,000 per Seattlite to be able to scoot from West Seattle to Interbay in 20 minutes rather than 35? (What'd the library cost? About a tenth the price of the tunnel?)
Frankly, the city/state should just privatize the whole tunnel on a 40 year toll concession, and see how many companies want to take it on. My bet is ZERO.
The tunnel is just one thing. This whole election is a big old sham issue: if no one wants to build the tunnel, let's wait for the the next quake so Seattle can move on with more important matters like redoing the sclerotic planning process.
Not that Seattle will move on. It's more important to debate the issues and make sure all sides are listened to than to do anything. Empathy, not leadership, is what wins elections in this city.
110
@ 107 There are actually only 3 options: A,K,L- not A-L. A bit of a difference.
And McGinn obviously knows something about the problems facing the project- he identified why Mountlake residents have been arguing about the exit so much- there is no space for cars in that area. If mass transit like Light Rail had been a part of the original plans there wouldn't need to be so many cars to account for. McGinn gets planning for 50-100 years, and it includes investing in transit.
And McGinn obviously knows something about the problems facing the project- he identified why Mountlake residents have been arguing about the exit so much- there is no space for cars in that area. If mass transit like Light Rail had been a part of the original plans there wouldn't need to be so many cars to account for. McGinn gets planning for 50-100 years, and it includes investing in transit.
111
@107:
Did not think it was possible for someone to know less about the position than Mallahan.
Do you realize that A,K and L displace citizens and force traffic to pass through Montlake? Of course you don't. Mallahan only knew that there were a million options, but had no idea what the fundamental set of problems being solved was.
This is an executive position, not a lobbyist/campaign that happens to last for 4 years.
Did not think it was possible for someone to know less about the position than Mallahan.
And, about 520, Mallahan could at least identify that there are A-L options under study. McGinn wants to unwind the work that has gone into planning 520? That if fucking stupid. The east side and the state have been waiting for the west side decision and he wants to go back and try for 4 lanes?
He has no clue.
Do you realize that A,K and L displace citizens and force traffic to pass through Montlake? Of course you don't. Mallahan only knew that there were a million options, but had no idea what the fundamental set of problems being solved was.
112
You know what struck me about Mallahan's response on 520? He was castigating Seattle for delaying the Eastside and the State. He glossed right over the concerns of the Westside.
Isn't this exactly telling of Mallahan's priorities? He's an Eastsider at heart. He's owned by State interests. He's not willing to fight FOR Seattle.
Basically, he was telling Seattle to shut up already about the 520 project because the Eastside has already made their decision.
Stunning.
Isn't this exactly telling of Mallahan's priorities? He's an Eastsider at heart. He's owned by State interests. He's not willing to fight FOR Seattle.
Basically, he was telling Seattle to shut up already about the 520 project because the Eastside has already made their decision.
Stunning.
113
The more I see of Mallahan the more scared I am.
I entered the race agnostic, but after watching tonight's debate I've had it. He's got that idiotic George Bush arrogance going full tilt. I think he actually believes that his experience as a mid-level suit at T-Mobile has prepared him to be Mayor.
If he was just saying that to get elected I'd cut him some slack, but if he actually believes it he's a disaster waiting to happen.
I entered the race agnostic, but after watching tonight's debate I've had it. He's got that idiotic George Bush arrogance going full tilt. I think he actually believes that his experience as a mid-level suit at T-Mobile has prepared him to be Mayor.
If he was just saying that to get elected I'd cut him some slack, but if he actually believes it he's a disaster waiting to happen.
116
I have to agree with the comments about Jim Brunner's hair. His hair is why I married him, in fact. Well, his hair and his ass, but that's hardly an appropriate thing to say.
McGinn has the greatest stink-eye I have ever seen. For that alone, he would get my vote. I also felt like Mallahan couldn't answer a single question without smirking, which I recognize may have just been sort of a nervous tic thing, but it still sets a tone for his personality that I just can't get behind. He seemed patronizing and arrogant and like he wasn't actually LISTENING, not to the questions and not to McGinn. Not really. That's not what I look for in a leader. I think both are woefully underqualified to be mayor. But at least McGinn listens to what people have to say and takes an active interest in the opinions swirling around him. Mallahan is closed off and inaccessible. Or, at least, that's how he struck me last night.
McGinn has the greatest stink-eye I have ever seen. For that alone, he would get my vote. I also felt like Mallahan couldn't answer a single question without smirking, which I recognize may have just been sort of a nervous tic thing, but it still sets a tone for his personality that I just can't get behind. He seemed patronizing and arrogant and like he wasn't actually LISTENING, not to the questions and not to McGinn. Not really. That's not what I look for in a leader. I think both are woefully underqualified to be mayor. But at least McGinn listens to what people have to say and takes an active interest in the opinions swirling around him. Mallahan is closed off and inaccessible. Or, at least, that's how he struck me last night.
117
You know, if you only read what they said, you might think Mallahan had a chance against McGinn.
But, as Nixon learned, it's not just the words. It's who you are and how you come across.
McGinn comes across as someone who would be a great Mayor.
But, as Nixon learned, it's not just the words. It's who you are and how you come across.
McGinn comes across as someone who would be a great Mayor.
118
For the love of CHRIST....VOTE FOR MCGINN!!!!
We don't need a sniveling prick like Mallahan running things!
We don't need a sniveling prick like Mallahan running things!
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