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News & ArtsFriday, October 16, 2009
Politics "People are going to die needlessly, their houses are going to burn down."
Posted by Will Kelley-Kamp on Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:37 AM
If you want to get some world class kick-ass talking points on why Initiative 1033 is bad news, go no further than Vancouver, Washington:
They came from diverse backgrounds: a businessmen, a firefighter, several health care workers and an education advocate.But they all had the same thing to say: Vote no on Initiative 1033.
The group gathered at the Greater Vancouver Chamber of Commerce on Thursday to warn voters that I-1033 — aimed at slowing the growth of state and local governments — will have disastrous effects in ways they may not have considered.
"The passage of 1033 would result in at least one closure of a fire station," said Mark Johnston, president of the Vancouver Firefighters Union. "People are going to die needlessly, their houses are going to burn down."
Fuck.
Mr. Johnston could teach a thing or two to Seattle-area lefty political activists on how to communicate a message: put away the bar graphs and the pie charts and make it plain.
The Columbian (the paper that ran this story quoted from above) has also endorsed a 'No' vote on I-1033.
To defeat I-1033, "No on I-1033" will have to rack up big numbers in the liberal Puget Sound area. They'll also have to compete in places like Vancouver where voters are less liberal and more sympathetic to an anti-tax message (but don't want to live in a pile of embers). It is going to take a lot more Johnstons around the state to make their case.
1
Cue Tim Eyman to come in here and say "they are greedy, Firefighters and Teachers are greedy".
YEAH, TIMMY! SCREW THOSE FIREFIGHTERS AND TEACHERS! Fire them all!
YEAH, TIMMY! SCREW THOSE FIREFIGHTERS AND TEACHERS! Fire them all!
2
Be specific.
Look, the cold hard reality is, should this pass, Seattle will have to stop subsidizing the rest of the state and county, and King County will have to stop subsidizing the rest of the state.
And, given the budget, there WILL be fewer cops and firefighters.
Period.
Look, the cold hard reality is, should this pass, Seattle will have to stop subsidizing the rest of the state and county, and King County will have to stop subsidizing the rest of the state.
And, given the budget, there WILL be fewer cops and firefighters.
Period.
3
Um, this is based on Colorado's TABOR (Taxpayer's Bill Of Rights) and while it's certainly fucked, it has not resulted in the fire department being so underfunded that houses burned to the ground. Hyperbole and hysteria won't defeat I-1033.
4
People will die. And this measure appears that it will pass.
I think it is important now to get in the "i told you so" mode because this fuckers are going to blame the deaths on something else like priorities or "values" or public schools, or whatever they can.
Many people are in "anti-government" mode. Even if it completely shuts everything down. At least for them the Dem's will become frustrated and start retiring as the state system begins to collapse.
I think it is important now to get in the "i told you so" mode because this fuckers are going to blame the deaths on something else like priorities or "values" or public schools, or whatever they can.
Many people are in "anti-government" mode. Even if it completely shuts everything down. At least for them the Dem's will become frustrated and start retiring as the state system begins to collapse.
5
Let me get this straight, if it passes and Tim's house catches fire while he's at work, no firefighters will show up to put it out? That would be horrible.
8
This has ALWAYS been our problem on the left.
We're too fucking nice.
Left-wing talking point: "I-1033 will very badly hurt the Washington State budget. Similar to what happened in Colorado with their constitutional amendment to tie spending and taxation to inflation, they found themselves having to needlessly cut spending on a multitude of services, which had a cumulative negative effect overall on their state under TABOR. Eyman's I-1033 in Washington State will have the same cascading effect on our infrastructure, education budgets, , etc etc etc etc for another 500 words."
Right-wing talking point: "VOTE YES ON 1033 MORE MONEY BACK TO YOU TAXES BAD"
Alternate Right-wing talking point: "IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR 1033 DEATH PANELS WILL KILL UNBORN BABIES"
Which will get more attention from the people that don't have time to follow this stuff deeply, which is like 95% of the world?
We're too fucking nice.
Left-wing talking point: "I-1033 will very badly hurt the Washington State budget. Similar to what happened in Colorado with their constitutional amendment to tie spending and taxation to inflation, they found themselves having to needlessly cut spending on a multitude of services, which had a cumulative negative effect overall on their state under TABOR. Eyman's I-1033 in Washington State will have the same cascading effect on our infrastructure, education budgets, , etc etc etc etc for another 500 words."
Right-wing talking point: "VOTE YES ON 1033 MORE MONEY BACK TO YOU TAXES BAD"
Alternate Right-wing talking point: "IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR 1033 DEATH PANELS WILL KILL UNBORN BABIES"
Which will get more attention from the people that don't have time to follow this stuff deeply, which is like 95% of the world?
10
Warning people about the consequences of I-1033 is sorta like warning kids about the danger of doing drugs - until they find out for themselves, you are just wasting your breath.
12
While the Chicken Littles came from diverse backgrounds they shared one trait: they all make a living sucking off the taxpayer.
13
What Will said in #2.
If this passes, a follow up initiative should be passed that allows areas (by county) to only recieve back in services and funding, road construction etc, equivalent to the taxes they've paid in. The voters outside the big cities will fall over themselves in their rush to vote for it, even though it would hurt them the most. And we could stop subsidizing their lifestyle choices.
If this passes, a follow up initiative should be passed that allows areas (by county) to only recieve back in services and funding, road construction etc, equivalent to the taxes they've paid in. The voters outside the big cities will fall over themselves in their rush to vote for it, even though it would hurt them the most. And we could stop subsidizing their lifestyle choices.
14
@9 - only if they feel empowered by doing it.
I like Steven's idea @13. We need to say a big screw you to the morons if this passes and make it obvious No Means No.
Even if their houses burn, their crops fail, and their roads fall to ruins.
I like Steven's idea @13. We need to say a big screw you to the morons if this passes and make it obvious No Means No.
Even if their houses burn, their crops fail, and their roads fall to ruins.
15
@12: Sucking off the taxpayer? Clearly I haven't been spending enough time hanging out at the Fire Station.
16
So you people are happy with people losing their homes because they can't afford ever higher property taxes? That's fine by you? Yup you sure have the moral high ground here.
17
@16 I'm willing to bet that well north of 90% of those who lose their homes due to property taxes can't afford that home to start with. And yes, I think property taxes are a relatively stupid way of generating revenue. But until we wake up and get a state income tax it's not like we have many options.
18
It makes perfect sense to tax property for the services that keep that buildings on it still standing. The building & property wouldn't be worth much after it caught fire, it wouldn't be worth much after all the copper pipe/wire is stripped out of it, it wouldn't be worth much after mounds of waste were pile up on it, it wouldn't be worth much without plumbing and electric. Utilities and fire and police protection make property more valuable as opposed to an empty lot in the ass end of nowhere.
p.s. If you want people to vote down Initiative 1033, tell them after the election you'll set fire to their houses just as an experiment to see how superior "The Libertarian Free-Market Fire Department" is to the government option.
p.s. If you want people to vote down Initiative 1033, tell them after the election you'll set fire to their houses just as an experiment to see how superior "The Libertarian Free-Market Fire Department" is to the government option.
19
@15
Clearly.
You really should leave the men's bathroom at the bus station every once in a while.
Clearly.
You really should leave the men's bathroom at the bus station every once in a while.
20
since 911, firefighters are the new sacred cow, replacing even pentagon funding in their untouchable-ness.
21
@20
Shouldn't it be that way? You're much more likely to need the help of your local fire department (whether its for a fire, a gas leak, or even emergency medical care) than you are to need an F-22 Raptor.
Shouldn't it be that way? You're much more likely to need the help of your local fire department (whether its for a fire, a gas leak, or even emergency medical care) than you are to need an F-22 Raptor.
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