Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Savage Love University of California - Santa Cruz
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Some of the questions put to me tonight by the students at the UCSC...
What do I do when she tells me to pull out before I cum, but I already did a minute ago?
My girlfriend wants to fuck me from behind with a Feeldoe, but it hurts. What do I do?
What is Ira Glass like in person?
What is the clitoris?
What are your views on the "gay marriage" movement? Is it an assimilation into heteronormativity or a positive step in the right direction?
What is the best way to overcome jealously?
Has having a criminal record prevented you from doing anything you'd like to do?
Some of my answers: confess; turn around; Ira Glass is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life; it's her cock; yes; to get dumped a few dozen times and realize—preferably with a therapist in the room—that you can have jealousy or a lasting relationship but not both; I have a criminal record?
My chaperone at the UCSC—the lovely Julia—told me about a cool tradition here at UCSC. At 10:10 PM on the night of the first serious nighttime rainstorm of the school year—defined as more than two hours of straight rain after 6 PM—students strip naked and run through campus. They call it the First Rain Naked Run and a video of this year's run is after the jump...
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4
I'm just gonna point out that Julia and I went to high school together and I am fucking JEALOUS of that ho. Time to talk to the UC Davis peeps to get Dan to talk to our cowtown asses, even if we don't run around naked.
5
What, no questions about the banana slug's day-long sexual marathons? That's all we used to talk about when I went there.
7
Jealousy isn't something that goes away, it's only something that you can learn to manage and not let poison your relationships. It helps if you can learn to be secure with yourself, your significant other, and commit to being open rather than secretive.
8
Banana Slugs in the house! Though, when I was there, there was no naked run. We were too busy doing mushrooms and deconstructing literature in Elfland.
10
ahhhhhh the naked run was so fun but fuck the pervs who videotaped and photographed us, goddamned pornographers! dan youre the shit, it was awesome seeing you tonight :] thanks so much for coming to our little town of santa cruz. your frankness and continued pursuit of issues pertinent to you is so admirable.
11
ahhhhhh the naked run was so fun but fuck the pervs who videotaped and photographed us, goddamned pornographers! dan youre the shit, it was awesome seeing you tonight :] thanks so much for coming to our little town of santa cruz. your frankness and continued pursuit of issues pertinent to you is so admirable.
13
@11, Tufts has its own annual naked run (but in the dead of winter, just before finals) and there's always creeptastic off-campus voyeurs and at least one asshole with a camera, taking all the joy out of it.
14
@13: Perhaps you could make water balloons full of paint, glitter, and/or piss a part of the tradition? But they can only be tossed at people who are creepy, fully clothed, or carrying cameras?
15
hey you want to run naked in a public place, they want to take pictures and wank. Is someone getting hurt? The "we are healthy healthy nude-in-public free spirits VS they are sick sick weirdos who want to see us nude in public" argument is hypocritical if you are an ACLU-type.
16
@13 --- you're running around naked and people aren't supposed to look? Oh you mean they shouldn't take pictures of naked college students in public places? I can think of creepier things like secretly photographing flabby oldsters....
How much fun would it be if nobody showed up to see you running around? That event would die rather quickly.
I bet when you're at Wal-Mart yakking on your cell phone you tell people to stop listening since it's a private call....
How much fun would it be if nobody showed up to see you running around? That event would die rather quickly.
I bet when you're at Wal-Mart yakking on your cell phone you tell people to stop listening since it's a private call....
17
"Jealousy isn't something that goes away, it's only something that you can learn to manage..."
Bullshit.
Jealousy is based on fear and if you want to overcome any fear, it is most definitely possible if you work at it.
Bullshit.
Jealousy is based on fear and if you want to overcome any fear, it is most definitely possible if you work at it.
19
@ 17, bullshit. You've never been really jealous if you believe that. Stick to defending Polanski.
20
@13, by "taking all the joy out of it" I assume you mean that you were just about to see this really hot guy/girl who was going to actually do the run but then someone mentioned the cameras and they pussed out. Or maybe you have the mentality of a flasher and you're getting off on having some power over the people who don't want to see it? Either way, that's a pretty self-serving attitude.
I don't know if you've ever stripped off for a pride or solstice parade, but most of the joy to be experienced there is on the smiling faces of the crowd. There are cameras everywhere because it's an event worth recording.
I don't know if you've ever stripped off for a pride or solstice parade, but most of the joy to be experienced there is on the smiling faces of the crowd. There are cameras everywhere because it's an event worth recording.
22
Dan, you blew chunks on the
'gay marriage/heteronormativity'
question.
Not a surprise,
being wrong about it is your schtick,
after all...
The notion that homosexuality is
this rigid status that you ARE
and you could phase out of
(or into) the gay but
no one has to believe you
is a very recent invention.
And the notion that homosexuals must create a parallel universe mimicking heterosexual mores and institutions to achieve self respect is a dangerous deadend delusion.
Historically homosexuality was a behavior that people choose to engage in, along with full participation in heterosexual behavior and institutions.
How openly the homosexual behavior was depended on the culture- from the Classical Greece of Sparta to the Hellenistic world of Alexander to the Roman Republic to the later Roman Empire to the Elizabethan England of James I.
In fact the example of Idaho Senator Larry Craig; a powerful man established in the heterosexual world who also engages in homosexual behavior on the side- is much more common than the Dan Savage style Flaming Queer.
Homosexuals in the past never felt the need or saw any wisdom in challenging the bedrock institutions of heterosexual society- religion and marriage. They often functioned well and willingly in those institutions, recognized that there was nothing to be gained by setting up a rigid homosexual copy of marriage and recognized that attempting to defeat those institutions head on would generate huge animosity and hostility that otherwise would not exist.
Savage imagines himself to be open-minded and tolerant in his sexual attitudes but in fact he harbors the worst narrowmindedness and bigotry possible- insisting that everyone embrace, endorse and institutionalize his view of sexuality.
The most acute victims of Savage's bigotry are people like Craig who choose, for whatever reasons they may have, to keep their homosexual conduct less public than Savage sees fit.
Savage sees them as traitors to himself and the 'Cause' (which are one and the same in Dan's mind) and viciously outs them against their will.
Bisexuals, who actually epitomize the historic attitude toward homosexuality, are also victimized by Dan because their attitudes toward sexual behavior and attraction do not fit his rigid model.
Dan's attitude toward Elton John is illuminating.
Sir Elton is by any standard an outstanding member of society with wonderful contributions in numerous fields and is universally aclaimed, honored and respected. His attitudes toward gay marriage deserve at least respectful consideration by younger members of the community and his credentials as a 'gay' should be beyond reproach.
Our society is widely accepting of homosexuality. One wonders how the world would be different if John's approach to gay marriage were more widely embraced, what liberties would be openly enjoyed and what bitter poisonous divise animosities would have never come to be.
More...
'gay marriage/heteronormativity'
question.
Not a surprise,
being wrong about it is your schtick,
after all...
The notion that homosexuality is
this rigid status that you ARE
and you could phase out of
(or into) the gay but
no one has to believe you
is a very recent invention.
And the notion that homosexuals must create a parallel universe mimicking heterosexual mores and institutions to achieve self respect is a dangerous deadend delusion.
Historically homosexuality was a behavior that people choose to engage in, along with full participation in heterosexual behavior and institutions.
How openly the homosexual behavior was depended on the culture- from the Classical Greece of Sparta to the Hellenistic world of Alexander to the Roman Republic to the later Roman Empire to the Elizabethan England of James I.
In fact the example of Idaho Senator Larry Craig; a powerful man established in the heterosexual world who also engages in homosexual behavior on the side- is much more common than the Dan Savage style Flaming Queer.
Homosexuals in the past never felt the need or saw any wisdom in challenging the bedrock institutions of heterosexual society- religion and marriage. They often functioned well and willingly in those institutions, recognized that there was nothing to be gained by setting up a rigid homosexual copy of marriage and recognized that attempting to defeat those institutions head on would generate huge animosity and hostility that otherwise would not exist.
Savage imagines himself to be open-minded and tolerant in his sexual attitudes but in fact he harbors the worst narrowmindedness and bigotry possible- insisting that everyone embrace, endorse and institutionalize his view of sexuality.
The most acute victims of Savage's bigotry are people like Craig who choose, for whatever reasons they may have, to keep their homosexual conduct less public than Savage sees fit.
Savage sees them as traitors to himself and the 'Cause' (which are one and the same in Dan's mind) and viciously outs them against their will.
Bisexuals, who actually epitomize the historic attitude toward homosexuality, are also victimized by Dan because their attitudes toward sexual behavior and attraction do not fit his rigid model.
Dan's attitude toward Elton John is illuminating.
Sir Elton is by any standard an outstanding member of society with wonderful contributions in numerous fields and is universally aclaimed, honored and respected. His attitudes toward gay marriage deserve at least respectful consideration by younger members of the community and his credentials as a 'gay' should be beyond reproach.
Our society is widely accepting of homosexuality. One wonders how the world would be different if John's approach to gay marriage were more widely embraced, what liberties would be openly enjoyed and what bitter poisonous divise animosities would have never come to be.
24
@18: The website is so bad I almost thought it was fake. Considering their products cost $80-$200, you'd think they could afford a little help.
25
I wanted to run that video through the benny hillifier but the "speeding up" option is broken... sorta ruins the whole purpose. :(
26
Dan, while that comment was strange, ignore Camelot. He also said "Our society is widely accepting of homosexuality," so you know he or she is craaaaaaazy.
27
Camelot did not say you criticized John.
Sir Elton opposes gay marriage.
Is he a homophobic bigot?
Sir Elton opposes gay marriage.
Is he a homophobic bigot?
28
from USA Today-
Elton John: Where Prop 8 went wrong
Updated 11/13/2008 5:09 AM
by Donna Freydkin
NEW YORK — Elton John, accompanied by his longtime partner, David Furnish, had some choice words about California's Proposition 8, the ban on same-sex marriage that passed on Nov. 4.
In December 2005, John and Furnish tied the knot in a civil partnership ceremony in Windsor, England. But, clarified the singer, "We're not married. Let's get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage."
John and Furnish, and their two cocker spaniels, Marilyn and Arthur, were in town for Tuesday's annual benefit for the Elton John AIDS Foundation.
"I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership," John says. "The word 'marriage,' I think, puts a lot of people off.
"You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."
Elton John: Where Prop 8 went wrong
Updated 11/13/2008 5:09 AM
by Donna Freydkin
NEW YORK — Elton John, accompanied by his longtime partner, David Furnish, had some choice words about California's Proposition 8, the ban on same-sex marriage that passed on Nov. 4.
In December 2005, John and Furnish tied the knot in a civil partnership ceremony in Windsor, England. But, clarified the singer, "We're not married. Let's get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage."
John and Furnish, and their two cocker spaniels, Marilyn and Arthur, were in town for Tuesday's annual benefit for the Elton John AIDS Foundation.
"I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership," John says. "The word 'marriage,' I think, puts a lot of people off.
"You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."
29
I have said, and written, but am not going to look up... that civil partnerships on the UK model aren't half a loaf. They're the whole loaf... but you can't call it "bread." I'd prefer full marriage equality, but I could live with that. Like civil unions in Vermont, it's a way-station on the way to full marriage rights. And everyone refers to it as marriage, and refers to Furnish as John's husband...
30
One of the world's most prominent gay entertainers offered some rare common sense on the explosive issue of same-sex marriage. In New York City for a gala AIDS benefit, rock legend Sir Elton John appeared with his long-time partner, David Furnish.
"We're not married," he told the press. "Let's get that straight. We have a civil partnership. I don't want to be married! I'm very happy with a civil partnership. The word 'marriage,' I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."
If more people on all sides of this issue embraced the simple, irrefutable logic of this clear-thinking superstar, a vastly divisive, unnecessary controversy could reach a successful and amicable solution.
"We're not married," he told the press. "Let's get that straight. We have a civil partnership. I don't want to be married! I'm very happy with a civil partnership. The word 'marriage,' I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."
If more people on all sides of this issue embraced the simple, irrefutable logic of this clear-thinking superstar, a vastly divisive, unnecessary controversy could reach a successful and amicable solution.
31
29
Elton John opposes gay marriage.
Is he a homophobic bigot?
He was very vocal about Prop 8.
How is he different from people who voted for and donated money to Prop 8?
Elton John opposes gay marriage.
Is he a homophobic bigot?
He was very vocal about Prop 8.
How is he different from people who voted for and donated money to Prop 8?
32
@20 by "taking all the joy out of it", I mean the fully clothed off-campus visitors standing around staring/taking pictures adds a creepy layer to an event that is about having fun in a surprisingly innocent way - it's not sexual at all, in my experience...just really, really cold. I do like Dan's idea @14 though!
33
@32, well said. I think Dan's idea is great, but I'm not at all down on the spectators. I think it's a treat for them and wish fewer people had a problem with it, even if it is sexual. You don't need to be creeped out by it if you don't want to.
34
Re: Naked run. Harvard does the same thing, except before exams.
Now can we get more videos up on YouTube of these college talks?
Now can we get more videos up on YouTube of these college talks?
35
Elton John's reason for opposing gay marriage was that it "put people off." Does that say he doesn't want culture to move to a place where it isn't put off, and then toward gay marriage? Not at all, Anonymous Troll.
There are strong proponents of gay marriage (eventually) who have made essentially the same argument about current approaches.
There are strong proponents of gay marriage (eventually) who have made essentially the same argument about current approaches.
36
i was hoping you were going to do this for Jacksonville, because there were some pretty amazingly stupid questions asked.
37
@4: jealousjealousjealous,
WHO ARE YOU!!!?!?
One of my favorite quotes of the night:
1. In response to a girl wondering how to tell guys she likes that she is a virgin.
"You are probably less of a virgin than you think. I bet you have given a blow job before so you're face isn't a virgin."
Thanks Dan, you are awesome! :D
WHO ARE YOU!!!?!?
One of my favorite quotes of the night:
1. In response to a girl wondering how to tell guys she likes that she is a virgin.
"You are probably less of a virgin than you think. I bet you have given a blow job before so you're face isn't a virgin."
Thanks Dan, you are awesome! :D
39
And my other favorite quote of the night:
"If your boyfriend doesn't push his face into your pussy and tear that shit up, dump him"
(or something like that; sorry Dan if it's not perfect, but it gets the point across).
"If your boyfriend doesn't push his face into your pussy and tear that shit up, dump him"
(or something like that; sorry Dan if it's not perfect, but it gets the point across).
42
When I was in the poly community, jealousy was a common issue though I remember picking up a tidbit that really helped me refine what was going on in my head. I think it was in the The Ethical Slut where Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy separated jealousy which is about possession or exclusion and envy, which is about involvement or inclusion. (Note that these are not necessarily Webster's definitions of the words, but the a usage that is specific to the purpose of making this differentiation.)
Jealousy is about restriction, you only get to put clothespins* on me. This is not to say Jealousy is invalid, (There is no such thing as an invalid emotion.) Jealousy can be rooted in a desire to be uniquely special or uniquely connected to a person as it can be about fear of inadequacy.
Envy is about participation, why won't she pour hot wax on my clit*? It's about being included in a partner's life and activities, sometimes very specific ones. Again, this is completely valid. Envy is often about wishing to expand the time, the spectrum of activities and degree of interconnectivity with a partner.
When I learned this, I realized that whenever I had jealous feelings for someone, it universally fell onto the envy side of the equation. I fetishize my partner's desire to be with me entirely of her own free will. There's more to it than that and I don't feel like proverbially dropping my pants any further, but I don't really get jealous. It doesn't stop me from feeling like Hell when I get dumped. I get phases of insecurity and feelings of inadequacy all the time, but chaining someone to me feels forced. I really dig that she wants to be there.
* In the BDSM community, sex and intimacy involve a huge gamut of activities, so jealousy can be as much about flogging / getting flogged, dominating / submitting, tying up / getting tied up, getting paddled, pierced, caned, being the daddy of / mommy of / little girl of / little boy of, borrowing the dildoes of, getting electrocuted by etc. et. al. ad nauseam. as it can be about fucking, kissing, petting, sucking the toes of or whatever.)
More...
Jealousy is about restriction, you only get to put clothespins* on me. This is not to say Jealousy is invalid, (There is no such thing as an invalid emotion.) Jealousy can be rooted in a desire to be uniquely special or uniquely connected to a person as it can be about fear of inadequacy.
Envy is about participation, why won't she pour hot wax on my clit*? It's about being included in a partner's life and activities, sometimes very specific ones. Again, this is completely valid. Envy is often about wishing to expand the time, the spectrum of activities and degree of interconnectivity with a partner.
When I learned this, I realized that whenever I had jealous feelings for someone, it universally fell onto the envy side of the equation. I fetishize my partner's desire to be with me entirely of her own free will. There's more to it than that and I don't feel like proverbially dropping my pants any further, but I don't really get jealous. It doesn't stop me from feeling like Hell when I get dumped. I get phases of insecurity and feelings of inadequacy all the time, but chaining someone to me feels forced. I really dig that she wants to be there.
* In the BDSM community, sex and intimacy involve a huge gamut of activities, so jealousy can be as much about flogging / getting flogged, dominating / submitting, tying up / getting tied up, getting paddled, pierced, caned, being the daddy of / mommy of / little girl of / little boy of, borrowing the dildoes of, getting electrocuted by etc. et. al. ad nauseam. as it can be about fucking, kissing, petting, sucking the toes of or whatever.)
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