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News & ArtsWednesday, October 14, 2009
Hetero Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:05 AM
Been a while, but this rises to the level of... ugh:
A Lancaster County man has been arrested and charged with sexually propositioning his estranged 13-year-old daughter on Facebook, officials said today.... The Inquirer is not identifying the Lancaster County man because his daughter shares his last name. The Inquirer does not identify alleged victims of sex crimes. Corbett's office provided the following account of the alleged crime:The man, who lives in Lititz and had no contact with his daughter for 10 years, located her on Facebook and began sexually propositioning her, calling himself "Bad Daddy." The man proposed meeting the girl for sex and explained sex acts in graphic detail, telling her, "not many other fathers and daughters are this brave, so not many of them are so lucky to experience all these pleasures."
The girl alerted her mother, who contacted the Ephrata Borough Police Department. Agents from the Attorney General's Child Predator Unit and Ephrata Police arrested the man when he arrived at a predetermined meeting location on Wednesday. Agents seized a camera, tripod and an unopened box of condoms from his vehicle.
Excuse me while I go boil my brain.
3
Yes, Dan, everybody needs to go boil their brain every once in a while. Go for it - you're overdue. Just don't post any more photos of your dick this time around.
As for me, I've got a full liter bottle of Jagermeister sitting in front of me, and plan to get a little boiled myself. Y'all have a great day and I'll see you tomorrow.
As for me, I've got a full liter bottle of Jagermeister sitting in front of me, and plan to get a little boiled myself. Y'all have a great day and I'll see you tomorrow.
4
The box of condoms was unopened... That's good - at least we can (hopefully) assume that the worst did not happen. I'm glad the daughter is safe. I'm glad the father is in custody. That's all I will say (for I fear that saying more will cause my brain to boil...)
7
Just pointing out that the parents here were already divorced (or separated if they never married) so this doesn't really fit in with the Every Child Needs a.... theme. Still......ick x infinity.
And yes, if I were that child, I would scrub every vestige of that man from my life, starting with the name.
And yes, if I were that child, I would scrub every vestige of that man from my life, starting with the name.
8
This is truly repulsive, i shutter to think what is going thru the kids mind after seeing her own father proposition to her what he did. What irreversible damage has been done to the psyche of this young girl? And in what way will it be acted out by her in the future. This is sadly the result of the oversexualization going on in our country, and the anything goes attitude when it comes to sex. Many are to blame for it.
Throw away the key and castrate that bastard, because if he ever gets out he is going to act out his sick desires and there will be an innocent young victim due to it.
Throw away the key and castrate that bastard, because if he ever gets out he is going to act out his sick desires and there will be an innocent young victim due to it.
9
I'm so proud of that girl for telling her mom, and I'm so proud of that mom for taking care of business.
11
Loveschild, I know you like to blame your problems on others, but nobody is to blame in this situation but the estranged father.
12
@8 "This is sadly the result of the oversexualization going on in our country, and the anything goes attitude when it comes to sex."
Whaaat? Since when has "anything goes" applied to incestuous affairs with minors? Rather, I think that this situation is sadly the result of a fucked up man whom your god probably should have sterilized....or at the very least, been hit with a god-shaped bus shortly after his sperm donation.
Whaaat? Since when has "anything goes" applied to incestuous affairs with minors? Rather, I think that this situation is sadly the result of a fucked up man whom your god probably should have sterilized....or at the very least, been hit with a god-shaped bus shortly after his sperm donation.
15
@5: Only because Facebook tries so hard to do everything Myspace did and then some.
@14: Eh, it seems to me that fun-wise it's like drinking so much you throw up in your friend's car on the ride home. Sure, you're giggling like a child at how funny this is, but everyone else just looks at you with disgust and pity.
@14: Eh, it seems to me that fun-wise it's like drinking so much you throw up in your friend's car on the ride home. Sure, you're giggling like a child at how funny this is, but everyone else just looks at you with disgust and pity.
17
Loveschild @ 8,
Indeed, this is terrible. But, please don't go around presuming this girl will forever be damaged with your," What irreversible damage has been done to the psyche of this young girl? ". Yes, she has suffered, and will need to grieve, rage, and recover, and may very likely need some counseling to work through it. But, she also needs to be encouraged, that's a strong young lady who spoke up, her strength needs to be commended. She can be victorious in this, and rise above the evil her estranged father intended for her. What better evidence can she give, to not just survive this offense, but to both thrive and succeed? I'm hoping that her life will be a great, and joy filled.
Indeed, this is terrible. But, please don't go around presuming this girl will forever be damaged with your," What irreversible damage has been done to the psyche of this young girl? ". Yes, she has suffered, and will need to grieve, rage, and recover, and may very likely need some counseling to work through it. But, she also needs to be encouraged, that's a strong young lady who spoke up, her strength needs to be commended. She can be victorious in this, and rise above the evil her estranged father intended for her. What better evidence can she give, to not just survive this offense, but to both thrive and succeed? I'm hoping that her life will be a great, and joy filled.
19
Hey LC, you're aware of the fact that incest existed in biblical times, don't you? Sorry, but sexual deviancy has been documented in every culture and every era, regardless of how much religion and morality a society has or had. It has zero to do with popular culture.
20
19 Yes I'm aware, but just to correct you, not that you want to because you much rather trash religion and call names like the above entities do),while acts of incest are spoken about in the Bible they are dealt with harshly. When not by humans then by God Himself. Something always happens to the perpetrators of such abhorrent acts. That however is not what seems to be happening in our current culture, hence someone sick like Roman Polanski. And why it shouldn't, in a culture that condones all types of sexual behavior that were once considered so abominable to even be speaking of them publicly, who is to decide what type of acts should be outlaw and which shouldn't?
That's the problem, once you open up a can of worms you are not afforded the luxury to pick and choose which worms can't come out because one worm will call you on it.
That's the problem, once you open up a can of worms you are not afforded the luxury to pick and choose which worms can't come out because one worm will call you on it.
21
17 I hope you're right, but one never knows how these things end up playing out themselves as the child grows older.
I agree with you.. She's already shown that she knows right from wrong with the prompt action she took. No doubt thanks to her mother's correct teaching.
I agree with you.. She's already shown that she knows right from wrong with the prompt action she took. No doubt thanks to her mother's correct teaching.
22
20, Yet again something goes over your little head. There is a difference between consenting adults and 13 year old girls. We do have the luxury of making that distinction. Do you ever tire of totally missing the point and being completely wrong. I hope not. You provide endless entertainment.
23
I can't imagine why this guy was "estranged" from his daughter. Perhaps because his ex-wife wouldn't let him anywhere near her?
24
@14 - ok. Just seems like people take LC so seriously. But I'm all for people having fun if that's what floats your boat.
25
I've lived all my life in Lancaster, so I've never noticed it, but a lot of people swear that they get this strange vibe when they're in this area. Most of them are coming from the Philly area, and Lancaster is sort of PA's bible belt, so maybe that's it. It does seem like every few months that we're making national news with some sort of horrible crime.
26
Sorry LC, Nothing happened to Lot or his daughters, unless you count them bearing the future patriarchs of the Moabites and Ammonites. So......there's that. Have you actually read the Bible?
28
At least the Mother had her head on straight and was able to protect her daughter. Obviously she's doing something right, if her child will come to her with this kind of thing.
Good thing she dropped the bastard. I shudder to think he might have raped the poor girl while living under the same roof, which he probably would have done!
Good thing she dropped the bastard. I shudder to think he might have raped the poor girl while living under the same roof, which he probably would have done!
29
Seriously, for most of the Old Testament God doesn't give a rat's patooty what the Israelites get up to as long as they aren't worshiping Baal. Rape? Murder? Decimating the Tribe of Benjamin and then repopulating them by kidnapping and raping alllllll the women of another tribe? Jolly hijinx to our Creator! But. No. Worshiping. BAAL!1!1!!
30
LC, just because we believe in due process doesn't mean that we don't deal with this stuff harshly. Are you aware of the place child molesters have in prison society? I'd say that's pretty harsh.
And please, PLEASE find a post where I trash religion. Quote me EXACTLY where I trash religion. Or apologize for bearing false witness against me.
And please, PLEASE find a post where I trash religion. Quote me EXACTLY where I trash religion. Or apologize for bearing false witness against me.
31
I completely agree with Loveschild. Where is your sympathy for this poor middle aged man? He was obviously a confused victim of an oversexualized media (I blame CNN, Dan Savage, and the Lifetime network in equal measure) which compelled him, completely against his will, to proposition his teen daughter on Facebook and prepare for their meeting in the manner of liberals. The box of condoms demonstrates how completely his faith must have been shaken by Hollywood. A good Christian man would have had faith in Jesus to restore his daughter's virginity after their joyous union. Won't someone think of the purity balls!
32
That sounds like that wierd sex games app I keep deleting invites for and blocking from showing up in my feed.
Not everything you see is necessarily what you think it is.
Not everything you see is necessarily what you think it is.
34
It's the men trying to act out their sick fantasies who need to have their brains cauterized.
But isn't that Amish country? Are there any approving words for incest in the old testament?
But isn't that Amish country? Are there any approving words for incest in the old testament?
35
As I mentioned, Lot and his daughters got off scott free. Probably because they weren't worshiping Baal. Or accidentally touching the Tabernacle to keep it from falling over. THAT will get you smote for sure!
36
26 Precisely, the Moabites and Ammonites were forever known as the progeny of such an abominable act and as such kept from the God's grace. That's why the men of such nations were excluded from congregating with God's chosen people.
And that's why the Moabites and Ammonites as a people are extinct, while the Jews exist with their own nation.
And that's why the Moabites and Ammonites as a people are extinct, while the Jews exist with their own nation.
39
Aaaaaaand did God smite Lot or his daughters? No he did not. And the fact that he took it out on generations of their progeny instead is another stellar example of His wacky sense of humor. Besides since the Moabites and Ammonites weren't worshipers of Jehovah, they probably were worshiping Baal, and we know how sensitive the Creator is about that.
40
39 The offenders don't get to choose the time or the type of punishment and sadly many times the sins of the father are be visited upon the sons.
37 I owe you no apology, you have done that, and even tho it is you who really have bear false witness against me i do not ask for your apology because i know that God is the only one who can cleanse your heart from all the cloud thats keepin it from the truth.
37 I owe you no apology, you have done that, and even tho it is you who really have bear false witness against me i do not ask for your apology because i know that God is the only one who can cleanse your heart from all the cloud thats keepin it from the truth.
41
So what about all those innocent Moabite bayyybees in their mother's wombs? How is punishing them going to hurt Lot generations after he had shuffled off this mortal coil? Ah, but logic isn't what we're talking about is it? Oh well, to each their own. I have friends that believe as you do, and friends that give credence to Intelligent Design and others that rule their lives by Astrology, and one that actually told me she believed in faries but not germs(which admittedly almost made my head explode) and as long as none of them try through force of arms or legislation to bring me to their side of the fence I am cool with them and, I suppose, you as well.
42
@40 Punishing innocents for the crimes of others is fucked up no matter how you look at it, so if that's the way God works, I'll take Satan, thanks. Regardless of which one of the two I piss off, I'll wind up burning for it and at least the devil doesn't put up a caring, fatherly facade; ironic for the Father of Lies, no?
43
Uh, guys, is it me or did nothing actually happen? A girl was inappropriately propositioned online; the girl responded appropriately; the mom responded appropriately; the would-be predator was traced and apprehended. Yes?
In this case the predator happened to be the girl's own estranged father, who couldn't separate fantasy daddy fetishism from reality.
I'd be more concerned about the girls who are getting victimized by their parents (or step parents) rather than the close calls (or in this case, the not-even-really-that-close call).
I suspect he'd be a high-prognosis case for parole and psychiatric treatment, frankly. Obviously, he needs to be restrained from proxy to his own daughter, and should probably stay away from teens in general for the time being, but he's not done enough (of which we know) to warrant throwing away the key. With time and treatment, he might even be able to re-establish contact and be a positive component in his (then adult) daughter's life
I think the poor girl may be freaked out by this, but if she has any other reasonable positive paternal figures in her life, it shouldn't be a permanent-scar type situation. She's not going to presume from this situation alone that all men are perverts, or that all men in authority will take advantage, unless this becomes her repeated experience in multiple circumstances.
Guys, stop trying to hunt the witches.
In this case the predator happened to be the girl's own estranged father, who couldn't separate fantasy daddy fetishism from reality.
I'd be more concerned about the girls who are getting victimized by their parents (or step parents) rather than the close calls (or in this case, the not-even-really-that-close call).
I suspect he'd be a high-prognosis case for parole and psychiatric treatment, frankly. Obviously, he needs to be restrained from proxy to his own daughter, and should probably stay away from teens in general for the time being, but he's not done enough (of which we know) to warrant throwing away the key. With time and treatment, he might even be able to re-establish contact and be a positive component in his (then adult) daughter's life
I think the poor girl may be freaked out by this, but if she has any other reasonable positive paternal figures in her life, it shouldn't be a permanent-scar type situation. She's not going to presume from this situation alone that all men are perverts, or that all men in authority will take advantage, unless this becomes her repeated experience in multiple circumstances.
Guys, stop trying to hunt the witches.
44
C'mon, LC, if you can't even highlight the offending passage - where I supposedly "trash religion" - then you do owe me an apology. Because it's false.
I never trashed religion and you know it. Admit it.
I never trashed religion and you know it. Admit it.
45
@ 43, the guy will need to be thoroughly investigated. It could be that this is his first and only offense of this type (and a near miss, as you say), or it could be that he has a thing for 13 year olds and has done stuff before.
46
I'm sure the guy will be well scrutinized to see if his walks have crossed paths with other recent victims or disappearances, to the degree that the resources of local law enforcement can provide.
I think one of the most effective stratagems we have for reducing sexual predation is to teach our kids at an early age to express their limits clearly, something it sounds like this girl did admirably.
I think one of the most effective stratagems we have for reducing sexual predation is to teach our kids at an early age to express their limits clearly, something it sounds like this girl did admirably.
47
I think it's perfect commentary on her ongoing inanity that LC will "shutter" to think what happened to this girl. What happened? She's now aware of why her father has had no contact with her for ten years, and fully understands that sometimes kids are better off with one parent than none. This guy was hardly her father. Oh gee Dad, whatcha been up to? Haven't chatted since I was THREE. My boyfriend's nephew was here, and that kid had a noninvolved bio dad, then his mom married my boyfriend's brother and later left the family, and he was adopted by his new dad. THAT'S DAD. They're a happy loving family, his two nonbio brothers love him, him nonbio grandparents love him, and all has been resolved. If his bio dad creeped on him, he already know its a nobody and there are creeps out there--not a permanent scar.
Meanwhile, I've got a date with God. I'm one of Adam and Eve's incest-based offspring and he wants to flog me with a ball-gag in my mouth. What a bunch of BS.
Meanwhile, I've got a date with God. I'm one of Adam and Eve's incest-based offspring and he wants to flog me with a ball-gag in my mouth. What a bunch of BS.
48
I think this article deserves a posting, as well. How do you simply forget a child (yours or someone else's) for 7 FUCKING HOURS?!?!?!?!?!
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/200910…
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/200910…
50
I agree about the mom doing a good job of handling the situation. My mom would have been helpless and I would have had to handle the situation myself.
53
@31,
Yes, we should have known that women wearing pants and living in coed dorms would lead to this!
Yes, we should have known that women wearing pants and living in coed dorms would lead to this!
56
(@13, perhaps this will help you):
congrats to Mr. Savage for the wonderfully effective and successful trollbaiting of Loveschide. He bagged a beaut.
*starts slow clap*
You managed to snag her for at least five postings this time, with a posting-to-first-troll-reponse turnaround time of 88 minutes...!
The bar's been raised, everyone.
He also managed to embroil Loveschide in arguments where she claimed incest was always punished, but later said Lot (incestuous as hell according to Lev.18:19 ) wasn't punished.
She also managed to indirectly claim that King David, Ruth, and even Jesus Christ wasn't in God's grace?!! AWESOME. Dan holds highscore on InternetPoints for the day.
And huge 'Reality-Checking-Account Deposit' scored by kim / @17. Well done with a reasonable and right job of not putting yet another woman into that old tired box labelled Poor Little Ignorant Female Victim.
Honorable mention to @9.
congrats to Mr. Savage for the wonderfully effective and successful trollbaiting of Loveschide. He bagged a beaut.
*starts slow clap*
You managed to snag her for at least five postings this time, with a posting-to-first-troll-reponse turnaround time of 88 minutes...!
The bar's been raised, everyone.
He also managed to embroil Loveschide in arguments where she claimed incest was always punished, but later said Lot (incestuous as hell according to Lev.18:19 ) wasn't punished.
She also managed to indirectly claim that King David, Ruth, and even Jesus Christ wasn't in God's grace?!! AWESOME. Dan holds highscore on InternetPoints for the day.
And huge 'Reality-Checking-Account Deposit' scored by kim / @17. Well done with a reasonable and right job of not putting yet another woman into that old tired box labelled Poor Little Ignorant Female Victim.
Honorable mention to @9.
57
BTW: @36:
I would agree that on the whole, bad things seem to happen to Moab and Ammon's descendants (see: Deuteronomy 23:3)
But, if the ammonites and moabites weren't ever allowed back into God's grace as you claim, how do you explain the fact that the wife of King Solomon the wise, the only wife to bear him children, and in fact his only heir, was an Ammonite?? David's grandson was Ammonite!
And
While King David's claim to royalty was challenged due to his blood ties to Ruth, (his grandma), he did persist as king. Ruth who was -by the way - a Moabite.
The same Ruth that's considered the fore-mother of Jesus Christ (cited: Matthew 1:5 & 1:16). The son of god in the same family line as Lot (related to Abraham) and his daughters? Hmm.
So, we've got King David, King Solomon, Abraham and Jesus all in one family tree. Jewish, Moab and Ammon blended , all according to the bible.
... so, Jesus, as a product of incest generations removed, was evil and could 'never enter the assembly of the lord' - - according to your logic...?
also , According to Deut 2:9, god gave those graceless Moabites an entire land and city (Ar), and he forbade his chosen people from making war or trying to take that land.
@all - On Lot's incest: he might not have broken the bible's law! It might be worth noting to those not familiar with scripture that the bible spends a lot of time spelling out EXACTLY what kinds of incest are forbidden. No sex with: Aunt, uncle, mother-in law, son, half-sisters, etc etc.et al!! All very direct and specific. (See Leviticus 18:6-18 & Leviticus 20:12
& Deuteronomy 27:20-23)
Even pronounces some punishments, like immediately being put to death, and god's power to render you childless. Even spells out how adopted daughters, half sisters, and daughters in law are also forbidden as sex mates.
But never does it say directly , despite doing so in every other case, that an old lech can't have sex with his own blood daughters. Lot apparently found this loophole (or his daughters did).
Proving possibly that you can take the girls out of Sodom and Gomorrah, (and you can even take the Sodom and Gomorrah out of the planet), but you can't always take the Sodom and Gomorrah out of the girls.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:Lot_and_his_D… THIS GUY, surely the chosen of god ...
More...
I would agree that on the whole, bad things seem to happen to Moab and Ammon's descendants (see: Deuteronomy 23:3)
But, if the ammonites and moabites weren't ever allowed back into God's grace as you claim, how do you explain the fact that the wife of King Solomon the wise, the only wife to bear him children, and in fact his only heir, was an Ammonite?? David's grandson was Ammonite!
And
While King David's claim to royalty was challenged due to his blood ties to Ruth, (his grandma), he did persist as king. Ruth who was -by the way - a Moabite.
The same Ruth that's considered the fore-mother of Jesus Christ (cited: Matthew 1:5 & 1:16). The son of god in the same family line as Lot (related to Abraham) and his daughters? Hmm.
So, we've got King David, King Solomon, Abraham and Jesus all in one family tree. Jewish, Moab and Ammon blended , all according to the bible.
... so, Jesus, as a product of incest generations removed, was evil and could 'never enter the assembly of the lord' - - according to your logic...?
also , According to Deut 2:9, god gave those graceless Moabites an entire land and city (Ar), and he forbade his chosen people from making war or trying to take that land.
@all - On Lot's incest: he might not have broken the bible's law! It might be worth noting to those not familiar with scripture that the bible spends a lot of time spelling out EXACTLY what kinds of incest are forbidden. No sex with: Aunt, uncle, mother-in law, son, half-sisters, etc etc.et al!! All very direct and specific. (See Leviticus 18:6-18 & Leviticus 20:12
& Deuteronomy 27:20-23)
Even pronounces some punishments, like immediately being put to death, and god's power to render you childless. Even spells out how adopted daughters, half sisters, and daughters in law are also forbidden as sex mates.
But never does it say directly , despite doing so in every other case, that an old lech can't have sex with his own blood daughters. Lot apparently found this loophole (or his daughters did).
Proving possibly that you can take the girls out of Sodom and Gomorrah, (and you can even take the Sodom and Gomorrah out of the planet), but you can't always take the Sodom and Gomorrah out of the girls.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:Lot_and_his_D… THIS GUY, surely the chosen of god ...
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