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News & ArtsWednesday, October 7, 2009
Politics How Will Mike McGinn Stop the Tunnel?
Posted by Will Kelley-Kamp on Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 3:27 PM
"It's the wrong question."
That's what Mike said to me.
There is a slice of the Seattle electorate who likes McGinn, but maybe aren't so anti-tunnel, who have been wondering exactly what the former Sierra Club leader would actually do, if elected, to put the brakes on the the deep-bore tunnel project.
"There are going to be cost overruns."
McGinn says that, if we push ahead without the costs of a tunnel figured out, we could find ourselves in a "Big Dig" type situation. We could have a project that's underway without the finds to finish it.
"The city has to come up with a billion dollars through parking and property taxes. The Pike Place Market levy was $89 milliion, and we voted on that. There should be public vote to raise those taxes."
What if the state pushed ahead, and the city refused to fund it's portion on the cost? Wouldn't that result in a rebuilt viaduct?
"Then, you'd have the downtown interests fighting that, too."
It's pretty clear that Mike is trying to change the narrative from "how will you stop this?" to "how will they build it?" That's a smart, smart move considering the candidates are so close in the polls and there's litiagtion underway to stop the tunnel if it is, in fact, being designed in violation of state law. If voters feel it is okay to reassess the tunnel, Mike seems ready to close the deal.
1
"It's the wrong question."
No, it's the right one - you just don't have an answer for it. And since you got off not answering it in the primary, how about answering it now?
Or maybe you don't want voters to know what your answer is.
No, it's the right one - you just don't have an answer for it. And since you got off not answering it in the primary, how about answering it now?
Or maybe you don't want voters to know what your answer is.
2
"There are going to be cost overruns" on all of Mike's and The Stranger's favored public transportation projects, too. In fact, Sound Transit has set a hard-to-beat bar for how much less they deliver for how much more money than initially promised. To beat that, the tunnel would have to turn into a two-lane bike tunnel for twice the cost. Actually, Mike and The Stranger would probably favor that.
3
A mayor of Seattle can pretty much stop any megaproject in Seattle. Even a contractor will pull out if the mayor opposes the project....there's too much uncertainty. And in reality there are 1,0000 decisions that the city has to take from permits to utility relocation to raising city taxes and in general, to swallowing that ridiculous legal provision the city has to pay overruns and not making a stir about that. For one thing the mayor can go on tv and tell teh state that the city does not have the credit or tax base to pay 1-2 billion in overruns, and here's a study by the finance director saying the costs will escalate, and here's a study pointing out that there is no finance plan for this megaproject.
Don't you guys remember anything?
Don't you guys remember anything?
5
I'm pretty sure the Pike Place Market Levy was $89 million, not $89 billion, but hey...what are a few orders of magnitude amongst friends.
6
@2: There's one big problem you conveniently forgot in your propagandizing: voters approved Sound Move, and regardless of overruns, also approved ST2.
If everyone is so sure that this hastily thrown together plan swiped from Dino Rossi and Luke Esser will work and has total support, how about a vote next year? They're already chugging along with this project, so it wouldn't hurt to ask voters, right? If they don't want it, kill the project. If they want it, they'll keep working.
If everyone is so sure that this hastily thrown together plan swiped from Dino Rossi and Luke Esser will work and has total support, how about a vote next year? They're already chugging along with this project, so it wouldn't hurt to ask voters, right? If they don't want it, kill the project. If they want it, they'll keep working.
7
At the Ballard High candidate's forum on Monday, Richard Conlin made a big deal out of refuting McGinn's statement that the "city" is responsible for cost overruns on the Tunnel. He read from some document that said it was the "Developers who benefit from the tear-down of the viaduct (and the resulting million dollar views) who are responsible for any cost overruns. He then added that there was a 30% contingency cost ALREADY built into the Tunnel construction budget, so the chances of overruns are "very slim".
Is that true? Why hasn't anyone brought it up before?
Or perhaps more realistically, how the hell do you saddle "developers who benefit" with a cost overrun on a public works project like this?
Is that true? Why hasn't anyone brought it up before?
Or perhaps more realistically, how the hell do you saddle "developers who benefit" with a cost overrun on a public works project like this?
8
@7: The council already demonstrated what they mean by that by proposing an across-the-board increase on downtown parking taxes and a potential utility rate increase for everyone.
10
I'm one of those voters. McGinn's anti-tunnel obsession leaves me reluctant to vote for a candidate who's otherwise so much better. It's not that I necessarily love the tunnel, it's just that I think the mayor has better things to do than to focus all of his efforts against a state project that's about to begin.
12
I love how you guys can't figure out that none of this is being coordinated.
None of it.
You keep looking for a puppet master, and you fail to realize you're fighting with a rebel guerrilla force that can't be stopped.
None of it.
You keep looking for a puppet master, and you fail to realize you're fighting with a rebel guerrilla force that can't be stopped.
13
oh, and if it's oh so popular, put it up to a vote of the citizens of Seattle ... cause it won't survive - by a landslide.
14
@ 10, That's just IT. The tunnel is NOT ready to begin. They haven't even designed more than 5% of it yet. They don't really have any idea how much it will cost yet, or the environmental impacts...
They would need to use the largest boring machine ever built.
@ 8, you're right about the taxes proposed thus far. But that doesn't even cover the entire amount the City's responsible for. Before cost overruns. And it doesn't include the Port's share of costs, which will have to be even more property taxes.
If you support affordable housing, education, parks, Seattle Center, bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure, and anything else that might need to be funded by a levy, property taxes, parking fees, etc. in the next 10-15 years then you should be really scared about building this tunnel.
Mike's right. The question needs to be asked: How are they going to build it?
They would need to use the largest boring machine ever built.
@ 8, you're right about the taxes proposed thus far. But that doesn't even cover the entire amount the City's responsible for. Before cost overruns. And it doesn't include the Port's share of costs, which will have to be even more property taxes.
If you support affordable housing, education, parks, Seattle Center, bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure, and anything else that might need to be funded by a levy, property taxes, parking fees, etc. in the next 10-15 years then you should be really scared about building this tunnel.
Mike's right. The question needs to be asked: How are they going to build it?
15
Fine by me to put it up for a vote. Seattle voters, here are your options: (1) State pays $3B, Seattle pays $1B, city gets a shinny new tunnel and an open waterfront. (2) State pays $0 and Seattle is on its own.
But I'm a bit confused about why the left is advocating a vote. Whenever Eyman puts an issue up from a vote, the left goes on and on about how we elect our represenatives in Olympia to decide such issues and the people shouldn't vote directly on them. Well, here's a case where the representatives in Olympia have decided. Why the change of heart?
But I'm a bit confused about why the left is advocating a vote. Whenever Eyman puts an issue up from a vote, the left goes on and on about how we elect our represenatives in Olympia to decide such issues and the people shouldn't vote directly on them. Well, here's a case where the representatives in Olympia have decided. Why the change of heart?
16
LOL, that was your argument as to what would happen if we killed the Many Roads and Little Transit proposal - that we'd get nothing - but instead we got Even More Transit.
Same thing when we kill the Billionaires Tunnel - we'll get either Surface Plus Transit (yeah!) or Rebuilt Transit-Friendly Viaduct (yeah!) ... and the extra bonding capacity can be used for even more transit.
We're not stupid. Put it up for a vote if it's so goddamned popular in Seattle - cause it ain't.
Same thing when we kill the Billionaires Tunnel - we'll get either Surface Plus Transit (yeah!) or Rebuilt Transit-Friendly Viaduct (yeah!) ... and the extra bonding capacity can be used for even more transit.
We're not stupid. Put it up for a vote if it's so goddamned popular in Seattle - cause it ain't.
17
Will, you are really clued out, that shapnel must have hit a sweet spot back in 'nam. The $2.4 billion that the state has allocated to build the bored tunnel (the entire cost of the tunnel itself), will go to some other part of the state for a highway in Spokane or wherever. It will be gone forever if we fail to move ahead on the tunnel. That is a fact.
McGinn = Seattle losing $2.4 billion in funding.
McGinn = Seattle losing $2.4 billion in funding.
18
I'm fervently pro-Tunnel. It's the best solution for the city. Just look at the Embarcadero in SF for an example of what you can do to a waterfront if you tear down elevated freeways. However, I am concerned about how it will be funded. Politicians STILL haven't figured it out and I can't believe some people want to push forward on a project that isn't even budgeted yet!
19
Yes, it is a smart move. McGinn needs to ditch the activist persona and deal with the city as a whole.
Who knows, maybe he'll make a good mayor.
Who knows, maybe he'll make a good mayor.
20
@17 and @15 for the Co-Win.
Both are completely correct!
Hipsters lose again!
Oh nose! I bet BaconCat will have a snarky reply! We can't wait to hear it! Can the Stranger's resident kiss ass think of something good!
We are all waiting!
Both are completely correct!
Hipsters lose again!
Oh nose! I bet BaconCat will have a snarky reply! We can't wait to hear it! Can the Stranger's resident kiss ass think of something good!
We are all waiting!
21
so how quickly after mcginn wins can we expect dismantling of the viaduct? I would like to see his timeline. how exactly will this proceed? why doesn't anyone ask him? expose the fool!
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