Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, October 7, 2009
Life Australians: Post-Race Miracle Humans or Racist Idiots?
Posted by David Schmader on Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Earlier today, I slogged about the Australian television show that horrified guest star Harry Connick Jr. by featuring a ridiculous act in blackface.
Every one of the comments on my post has seconded Connick's horror, with some noting the old-school racism that still pervades Australia as a whole.
But check out these presumably Australian YouTube comments:
typical... why do americans have to be so politically correct it was done as a laugh. Australia have a sense of humor. He's only said anything so he doesnt get in trouble back in the land of the 'free'! Dont ever invite him back.
The fact is this is AUSTRALIA and the majority of watchers find it entertaining we should no apologise because we offend another nation. Do we apologise to middle eastern countries for our TV showing semi-naked women? Don't get me wrong - I absolutely love America but I do not believe their culture should influence our nation.
if harry didnt open his stupid mouth this wouldnt be a problem, i swear some people just go looking for trouble
There is nothing racist about this. It is a parody only of the Jackson Five, not black people in general. Quite besides that, Michael Jackson hasn't been black in a long time. Race and skin colour are simply not of any significance to us here, and are certainly not an indicator of a persons merit. That is why we feel comfortable joking about it. Other countries should take note and learn from us.
See the original video here.
1
Well, you can't expect one person to act as "spokesperson" for a group, but I wonder if there is discourse on being black and Australian out there online somewhere, particularly on this incident. None of those commenters say their race in the quotes, but I bet they are white.
2
"Race and skin colour are simply not of any significance to us here"
The Lost Generation might disagree.
The Lost Generation might disagree.
3
Oh, so now they're all enlightened and shit. Right. I'll believe it when they elect an Abo president.
5
Can't speak to the Australian mindset but there is a lot of truth in those YouTube comments about American culture if anybody cares to step back a tiny bit. America is absolutely race obsessed with anything black. Why doesn't The Stranger community flip out when dudes dress up as ladies and perform? Weren't women an oppressed group in our history?
This obsession is ultimately counter productive because children grow up learning that anything black is taboo which must mean something is different about black.
This obsession is ultimately counter productive because children grow up learning that anything black is taboo which must mean something is different about black.
6
Ha. That's funny. But one of the commenters has a point. If someone from a country with a religiously fundamentalist tradition came here and was on a show featuring a musical number by, say, Jessica Simpson, and commented that where (he) comes from that kind of display would be degrading and offensive, I don't think that comment would get a very sympathetic reception here.
7
i was going to not the Lost Generation, but 2 beat me to it. australia has a long history with race.
8
White guilt is a terrible thing. But so is racism. Anyway blackface could be funny, like rape jokes, all in its own time.
10
@ 5 FTW
The last comment on YouTube blended with the first one are spot on.
Americans need to chill the fuck out and realize their mores, values and decisions aren't universal.
Everywhere in the world I travel I hear this about America, and when you do take a step back you realize how hung up Americans are on soooo many things.
The last comment on YouTube blended with the first one are spot on.
Americans need to chill the fuck out and realize their mores, values and decisions aren't universal.
Everywhere in the world I travel I hear this about America, and when you do take a step back you realize how hung up Americans are on soooo many things.
11
@5,
Look up the history of minstrelsy and get back to us on that. Or do you not care if you look like an ignoramus?
Look up the history of minstrelsy and get back to us on that. Or do you not care if you look like an ignoramus?
12
As an Aussie living in the US, although I adore Slog and usually agree with the comments, there's a context here you guys really aren't getting.
There are lots of aspects of Australian culture that don't cross over well. As with #15, I didn't even think there was anything racist about it until it was brought up.
One thing all the Australians living over here seem to agree on is that Americans take themselves kind of seriously. Now that sounds like more of an insult than it is, but behind it is the fact that Australians are very comfortable with 'having a go' at one another and at themselves, and generally just not taking themselves seriously at all. We are not always thinking "how does what I am doing look, could it be interpreted as rude/politically incorrect". Australians in general are very comfortable with themselves and with each other, regardless of race (less so gender, but that's another issue). This bunch of blokes dressing up and doing a dance is so completely innocent, but from an outsider's view, someone who isn't too familiar with our culture, it's easy to bring layers of meaning to it that simply aren't there for us.
I guess having lived here a few years, I can easily see how the performance could seem overwhelmingly racist. You can't see it for what it is, though, without a good understanding of the cultural context. Generally, if people do pick up on the political incorrectness of something in Aussie comedy it provides even more of a laugh because the idea of being so fussed about all that stuff seems silly when the average Aussie sees different races on equal ground to begin with. We 'have a go' (make fun of) ourselves as frequently and relentlessly as anyone else.
If anything Australians are harsher towards the rich and 'elite' than the people other countries *cough cough* would dub as lowly (refer to the wiki article 'Culture of Australia', subsection 'Attitudes, beliefs and stereotypes' for a better description - tall poppy syndrome, underdog, 'fair go' etc.).
Australia is a wonderfully diverse and multicultural place, and I've encountered FAR more racism here than there, but hey, that's just my experience and not a comprehensive study. :P
Also: I didn't verify it myself but #15's point that of the men doing the performance, "2 were Indian and another was Lebanese" doesn't surprise me in the least. And, for the record, of what racial discrimination there is in Australia the Lebanese and Indians tend to get the brunt of it. But, clearly these guys have been around long enough that they 'get' Aussie culture, and get that as a country, we've stopped taking skin color as a serious division and have thus grown out of the need to associate social stigmas to either color [i.e. to us, it's kind of like if a bunch of American comedians dressed up as girls for a skit, and watching the Middle East get pissed about it.]
Sorry for the huge ramble, but it's my first post and I evidently believe in what I'm trying to say enough to write a bloody novel to convey it.
More...
There are lots of aspects of Australian culture that don't cross over well. As with #15, I didn't even think there was anything racist about it until it was brought up.
One thing all the Australians living over here seem to agree on is that Americans take themselves kind of seriously. Now that sounds like more of an insult than it is, but behind it is the fact that Australians are very comfortable with 'having a go' at one another and at themselves, and generally just not taking themselves seriously at all. We are not always thinking "how does what I am doing look, could it be interpreted as rude/politically incorrect". Australians in general are very comfortable with themselves and with each other, regardless of race (less so gender, but that's another issue). This bunch of blokes dressing up and doing a dance is so completely innocent, but from an outsider's view, someone who isn't too familiar with our culture, it's easy to bring layers of meaning to it that simply aren't there for us.
I guess having lived here a few years, I can easily see how the performance could seem overwhelmingly racist. You can't see it for what it is, though, without a good understanding of the cultural context. Generally, if people do pick up on the political incorrectness of something in Aussie comedy it provides even more of a laugh because the idea of being so fussed about all that stuff seems silly when the average Aussie sees different races on equal ground to begin with. We 'have a go' (make fun of) ourselves as frequently and relentlessly as anyone else.
If anything Australians are harsher towards the rich and 'elite' than the people other countries *cough cough* would dub as lowly (refer to the wiki article 'Culture of Australia', subsection 'Attitudes, beliefs and stereotypes' for a better description - tall poppy syndrome, underdog, 'fair go' etc.).
Australia is a wonderfully diverse and multicultural place, and I've encountered FAR more racism here than there, but hey, that's just my experience and not a comprehensive study. :P
Also: I didn't verify it myself but #15's point that of the men doing the performance, "2 were Indian and another was Lebanese" doesn't surprise me in the least. And, for the record, of what racial discrimination there is in Australia the Lebanese and Indians tend to get the brunt of it. But, clearly these guys have been around long enough that they 'get' Aussie culture, and get that as a country, we've stopped taking skin color as a serious division and have thus grown out of the need to associate social stigmas to either color [i.e. to us, it's kind of like if a bunch of American comedians dressed up as girls for a skit, and watching the Middle East get pissed about it.]
Sorry for the huge ramble, but it's my first post and I evidently believe in what I'm trying to say enough to write a bloody novel to convey it.
13
Agree with #5. In America race is a taboo. Racism is still exists in people's minds, the only difference is that now they try to 'hide it'. The issue will never get better if we avoid having an open dialog about it.
14
Apparently it's necessary to point out that the Australians were mocking an American musical cultural icon who recently died, using a form of performance that is universally offensive to Americans, in front of an American musician. So it's not exactly like Connick was an outsider watching a Australian cultural display on its own terms. Everything about what was happening was predicated on American cultural history and values.
And it's not like it would require a deep study of American culture to understand that blackface is offensive to Americans. Anyone familiar enough with American culture to do the Jackson 5 would be able to anticipate how an American would respond to a blackface show.
This bunch of blokes dressing up and doing a dance is so completely innocent, but from an outsider's view, someone who isn't too familiar with our culture, it's easy to bring layers of meaning to it that simply aren't there for us.
Apparently it's necessary to point out that the Australians were mocking an American musical cultural icon who recently died, using a form of performance that is universally offensive to Americans, in front of an American musician. So it's not exactly like Connick was an outsider watching a Australian cultural display on its own terms. Everything about what was happening was predicated on American cultural history and values.
And it's not like it would require a deep study of American culture to understand that blackface is offensive to Americans. Anyone familiar enough with American culture to do the Jackson 5 would be able to anticipate how an American would respond to a blackface show.
15
@2, @7, it's the Stolen Generation. The Lost Generation is those bohemians in Paris in the 20s.
@12, I know you're "not taking yourselves seriously at all", but maybe you ought to once in a while. The Aboriginal people of Australia are being fucked over by white people TODAY. Why don't you get up in your blackface and hop over to Redfern and ask people what they think of that? The reason you're laughing is because you are surrounded by white power.
@12, I know you're "not taking yourselves seriously at all", but maybe you ought to once in a while. The Aboriginal people of Australia are being fucked over by white people TODAY. Why don't you get up in your blackface and hop over to Redfern and ask people what they think of that? The reason you're laughing is because you are surrounded by white power.
16
When the origin of your country can be summed up as "world's biggest prison colony," you can't expect much cultural sensitivity. Maybe somebody should go on "America's Got Talent" dressed as Paul Hogan chained to a rock.
17
@5 Comparing minstrel shows to singing drag queens shows a lack of understanding of the differences in motivation behind the two. Minstrel shows were a mockery of black culture by portraying the worst stereotypes (which this CLEARLY is) and drag queens are an homage to women born out of an affinity for the glamor and poise that comes with them. In that way the former is born out of disdain, while the latter out of respect. Anyone with half a brain can see the difference.
If drag queens went up on stage in fake pregnancy bellies and black eyes to sing about how dumb they are and how they love doing dishes and being subservient to their men, THEN you could equate the two.
And that's why people aren't up in arms about artists like The Beastie Boys and Eminem performing a musical style created by, and forever linked to, black culture. These artists respected the culture from which the musical style sprang, and so their interpretations aren't viewed as offensive.
If drag queens went up on stage in fake pregnancy bellies and black eyes to sing about how dumb they are and how they love doing dishes and being subservient to their men, THEN you could equate the two.
And that's why people aren't up in arms about artists like The Beastie Boys and Eminem performing a musical style created by, and forever linked to, black culture. These artists respected the culture from which the musical style sprang, and so their interpretations aren't viewed as offensive.
18
@12
Most of this is probably because our history with race is one of struggle. Yours is one of absolute conquest. We have that too (re: Native Americans), but our racial struggles have made us MORE aware of how those we're making fun of take it.
You say "the layers of meaning that aren't there for us". That's probably just because you don't see them.
What was the point of the skit if not about someone's race? Michael Jackson's skin color went from black to light, and they were making fun of it. Fine, that's funny, but that change had a subtext in itself, no? Why did he use whitening cream? Why did he get nose jobs? Nah, race was not involved here. No stigma. (Analogies to cross-dressing performance don't hold here, unless the cross-dressing is explicitly used to make fun of women. Which it's usually not.)
I don't usually talk the US up this much, but in my fairly extensive travels, I think out of most countries we're doing pretty fucking well on race. Better than the rest of you. And painfully so. We're not done with race in the US, but we are aware that shit like this is painful to people. You say you're beyond it, but I'd say you haven't gotten past it yet. You haven't even gotten to the point of addressing it (perhaps because there aren't many Aborigines left to make you uncomfortable about it). Saying you don't have a problem demonstrates to me your ignorance of the situation.
Most of this is probably because our history with race is one of struggle. Yours is one of absolute conquest. We have that too (re: Native Americans), but our racial struggles have made us MORE aware of how those we're making fun of take it.
You say "the layers of meaning that aren't there for us". That's probably just because you don't see them.
What was the point of the skit if not about someone's race? Michael Jackson's skin color went from black to light, and they were making fun of it. Fine, that's funny, but that change had a subtext in itself, no? Why did he use whitening cream? Why did he get nose jobs? Nah, race was not involved here. No stigma. (Analogies to cross-dressing performance don't hold here, unless the cross-dressing is explicitly used to make fun of women. Which it's usually not.)
I don't usually talk the US up this much, but in my fairly extensive travels, I think out of most countries we're doing pretty fucking well on race. Better than the rest of you. And painfully so. We're not done with race in the US, but we are aware that shit like this is painful to people. You say you're beyond it, but I'd say you haven't gotten past it yet. You haven't even gotten to the point of addressing it (perhaps because there aren't many Aborigines left to make you uncomfortable about it). Saying you don't have a problem demonstrates to me your ignorance of the situation.
19
remember that youtube video of the aussie hottie saying "the fat wog walks up to the skinny wog..."? they are full of shit - there's just no consequences for open bigotry so they don't think it exists.
21
I'm starting to see the humor in Bill Maher's Steve Irwin/Stingray costume.
Austrailia, it's like the south, but all over!
Austrailia, it's like the south, but all over!
22
@14 - "anticipate how an American would respond to a blackface show. "
It occurs to me that Australians appearing on an Australian show filmed and broadcast in Australia might have other things on their mind than what Americans might think of their skit. Then again, not to be too rude here, but how very stereotypically American it is to assume they would care.
Also, as I said: The 'blackface' thing DID NOT occur to me until it was brought up, and it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't occur to them. They weren't trying to do a 'blackface' skit, they were dressing up as other people. And, in Australia, "they've got black skin so I'll need some facepaint" is as simple as "Michael wore that special glove so we'll need a glove and some glitter". It's not what you're trying to make it into, and all this fuss not one bit a reflection on racism in Australia when you're the one's crying that it's a big deal *because they're dressed up as a different race*.
Would the same rule apply if content on an American show upset Australians? Should Americans keep Aussie culture in mind? HAVE YOU BEEN TO AN OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE THOSE THINGS ARE FUCKING ABOMINATIONS. Whoop, sorry.
Even if they did know that Harry was going to be a guest judge, I can't see how it would be even remotely reasonable to re-do their entire act because his country has taboos theirs doesn't.
It occurs to me that Australians appearing on an Australian show filmed and broadcast in Australia might have other things on their mind than what Americans might think of their skit. Then again, not to be too rude here, but how very stereotypically American it is to assume they would care.
Also, as I said: The 'blackface' thing DID NOT occur to me until it was brought up, and it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't occur to them. They weren't trying to do a 'blackface' skit, they were dressing up as other people. And, in Australia, "they've got black skin so I'll need some facepaint" is as simple as "Michael wore that special glove so we'll need a glove and some glitter". It's not what you're trying to make it into, and all this fuss not one bit a reflection on racism in Australia when you're the one's crying that it's a big deal *because they're dressed up as a different race*.
Would the same rule apply if content on an American show upset Australians? Should Americans keep Aussie culture in mind? HAVE YOU BEEN TO AN OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE THOSE THINGS ARE FUCKING ABOMINATIONS. Whoop, sorry.
Even if they did know that Harry was going to be a guest judge, I can't see how it would be even remotely reasonable to re-do their entire act because his country has taboos theirs doesn't.
23
FYI - As an american who's recently returned from spending half a year in australia, I would say that they absolutely have race issues. The backlash against a increase in Indian immigration is huge there, even though they all want to proclaim how liberal minded and accepting australians are as a culture...
24
To the producers of "Hey Hey"; Are you stupid? Did you not realise how wrong it was to put on the 'black faces'?
To the other Australians: Yeah, Conick was right - it was racist. Since the act would not have 'worked' if they had been white or asian, it's power was in the parody of a race of people, ie bigoted against them.
To the Americans: "We're doing pretty well on race"? Really. Henry Gates probably disagrees with you.
To every one: It's just a stupid TV show. It's not how real Australians act - except for Bike Boy.
To the other Australians: Yeah, Conick was right - it was racist. Since the act would not have 'worked' if they had been white or asian, it's power was in the parody of a race of people, ie bigoted against them.
To the Americans: "We're doing pretty well on race"? Really. Henry Gates probably disagrees with you.
To every one: It's just a stupid TV show. It's not how real Australians act - except for Bike Boy.
25
@22
Does that occur to you? Because it occurs to me that if someone were going on American Idol and was going to do something that was patently offensive to the British, they might stop to think that Simon is one of the judges on the show, regardless of where the fucking thing is broadcast. So maybe Australians are stupid, as well as being appallingly ethnocentric. But for the most part, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in spite of you.
It's not just an American taboo. It's a form of performance originated in the United States (they weren't wearing brown make-up, to look like African Americans, they were wearing black make-up, in the tradition of a minstrel show), about an American, in front of an American. If Franka Potente were doing a guest spot on a show and I got on and did a skit about fucking Nazis, I'd expect there to be blow-back even if such a skit would be perfectly funny to most Americans (Hogan's Heroes).
Jesus.
It occurs to me that Australians appearing on an Australian show filmed and broadcast in Australia might have other things on their mind than what Americans might think of their skit
Does that occur to you? Because it occurs to me that if someone were going on American Idol and was going to do something that was patently offensive to the British, they might stop to think that Simon is one of the judges on the show, regardless of where the fucking thing is broadcast. So maybe Australians are stupid, as well as being appallingly ethnocentric. But for the most part, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in spite of you.
Even if they did know that Harry was going to be a guest judge, I can't see how it would be even remotely reasonable to re-do their entire act because his country has taboos theirs doesn't.
It's not just an American taboo. It's a form of performance originated in the United States (they weren't wearing brown make-up, to look like African Americans, they were wearing black make-up, in the tradition of a minstrel show), about an American, in front of an American. If Franka Potente were doing a guest spot on a show and I got on and did a skit about fucking Nazis, I'd expect there to be blow-back even if such a skit would be perfectly funny to most Americans (Hogan's Heroes).
Jesus.
26
Whether or not I agree with Harry, I admire that he respectfully said what he did and that the folks running the show gave him the time to do it.
27
@19 - That was a publicity stunt by some random chick wanting attention. Hopefully not a good cultural example.
@18 - I'd say Australia is a fair shot further over race issues than the US, but yeah, I might be wrong. We're different enough in culture that we don't need to have taken the same paths as America is to have reached the same point. We haven't developed a taboo about race, and we don't take different skin color to be such a big issue that we have to tip-toe around it. People DO have different skin colors, we don't pretend to ignore it, nobody gets special treatment, it just plain doesn't matter.
If you want to comparing our countries, let's not leave Mexicans out of the race equation. The general attitude here towards Mexicans is nothing short of disgusting, so maybe America should deal with that issue before you tell other countries how to promote equality.
And, to everyone: I'm not saying my opinion is gospel, because I know it isn't. But if you haven't spent a decent amount of time in Australia should you really be bad-mouthing a culture you don't understand? It's exactly the same as the examples scattered about above: plenty of countries think that what you watch is terribly offensive.
@18 - I'd say Australia is a fair shot further over race issues than the US, but yeah, I might be wrong. We're different enough in culture that we don't need to have taken the same paths as America is to have reached the same point. We haven't developed a taboo about race, and we don't take different skin color to be such a big issue that we have to tip-toe around it. People DO have different skin colors, we don't pretend to ignore it, nobody gets special treatment, it just plain doesn't matter.
If you want to comparing our countries, let's not leave Mexicans out of the race equation. The general attitude here towards Mexicans is nothing short of disgusting, so maybe America should deal with that issue before you tell other countries how to promote equality.
And, to everyone: I'm not saying my opinion is gospel, because I know it isn't. But if you haven't spent a decent amount of time in Australia should you really be bad-mouthing a culture you don't understand? It's exactly the same as the examples scattered about above: plenty of countries think that what you watch is terribly offensive.
28
It was in bad taste and shouldn't have been allowed on air,
But -
America needs to understand that other countries don't have minstrel shows as part of their history, and might not automatically think of blackface and the implications of such, in relation to American culture.
I'm not defending the act, just want to point out that it seems callous/ignorant rather than malicious.
But -
America needs to understand that other countries don't have minstrel shows as part of their history, and might not automatically think of blackface and the implications of such, in relation to American culture.
I'm not defending the act, just want to point out that it seems callous/ignorant rather than malicious.
31
Damn, I hate generalizations. People are messed up everywhere, and it's wrong to start placing people in boxes based off of the actions of others. There are prejudiced people in every nation, racism is a human condition, a collective poverty. Yes, there are jerks in the US, but the US is not a nation entirely made up of jerks, and the same is true of Australia. If I was to wager a guess, I'd say that there are more good, kind people in both the US and Australia then there are true jerks.
32
#25 -"Because it occurs to me that if someone were going on American Idol and was going to do something that was patently offensive to the British, they might stop to think that Simon is one of the judges on the show, regardless of where the fucking thing is broadcast."
Well probably, because you generally take yourselves quite seriously.
I guess I shouldn't be amused by your claim that "maybe Australians are stupid" (I like the 'maybe', by the way, it makes it so much more mature) but I can only laugh to myself thinking about how terribly inappropriate that statement would be if Australians had a different color skin. You're lucky that since we don't, your *skin-color taboo* standards will let you slant us to your heart's content.
Well probably, because you generally take yourselves quite seriously.
I guess I shouldn't be amused by your claim that "maybe Australians are stupid" (I like the 'maybe', by the way, it makes it so much more mature) but I can only laugh to myself thinking about how terribly inappropriate that statement would be if Australians had a different color skin. You're lucky that since we don't, your *skin-color taboo* standards will let you slant us to your heart's content.
33
So, your pitch here is that I wouldn't be offended by something like this if Japanese people did it? You're funny.
Yes, that must be it.
I can only laugh to myself thinking about how terribly inappropriate that statement would be if Australians had a different color skin.
So, your pitch here is that I wouldn't be offended by something like this if Japanese people did it? You're funny.
Well probably, because you generally take yourselves quite seriously.
Yes, that must be it.
34
P.S. I like #28's fair and logical comment, and request to replace my entire argument with a simple "seconded". Now, I can get back to work instead of arguing on the internet!
35
@33 "So, your pitch here is that I wouldn't be offended by something like this if Japanese people did it? You're funny. "
No, my pitch was that calling a whole country stupid seems to be OK by you as long as there's no skin-color issues to make it racist. ^_-
No, my pitch was that calling a whole country stupid seems to be OK by you as long as there's no skin-color issues to make it racist. ^_-
36
This would hold up better if they had simply been wearing dark brown makeup and normal wigs. But they were wearing BLACK makeup and nappy wigs, very much in the tradition of a minstrel show. That suggests actual familiarity with minstrel shows as such and, by extension, an intention to reproduce such a show.
America needs to understand that other countries don't have minstrel shows as part of their history,
This would hold up better if they had simply been wearing dark brown makeup and normal wigs. But they were wearing BLACK makeup and nappy wigs, very much in the tradition of a minstrel show. That suggests actual familiarity with minstrel shows as such and, by extension, an intention to reproduce such a show.
37
"... the old-school racism that still pervades Australia as a whole."
So because five guys do something racist on Australian TV, that means we're just a continent of 20 million white-sheet-wearing, cross-burning bigots? Riiiiiight.
And they say real journalism is under threat from the internet ...
So because five guys do something racist on Australian TV, that means we're just a continent of 20 million white-sheet-wearing, cross-burning bigots? Riiiiiight.
And they say real journalism is under threat from the internet ...
38
@36
Mate, maybe they couldn't find any effing brown face paint? And I don't even know what a nappy wig IS, so they probably don't either: they've got costume 'fros that they probably got at a party store. Everywhere else in the world isn't America. Give it up.
Mate, maybe they couldn't find any effing brown face paint? And I don't even know what a nappy wig IS, so they probably don't either: they've got costume 'fros that they probably got at a party store. Everywhere else in the world isn't America. Give it up.
39
Judah,
I think they may be familiar with the imagery, but not the actual history.
(two of them are from India, and one from Lebanon, so I doubt that it would have been done with the same intent.)
I think they may be familiar with the imagery, but not the actual history.
(two of them are from India, and one from Lebanon, so I doubt that it would have been done with the same intent.)
40
And that argument isn't automatically valid just because it plays on stereotypes about Americans. In fact, it's a particularly shoddy argument here because every element of the act in question was imported from the United States. And, just as a point of order, I loved overseas for two years. I'm perfectly fucking aware that "Everywhere else in the world isn't America." Even to the extent of knowing that Canadians and Mexicans find it insulting to have the United States equated to "America".
Did you watch the video? They did the same routine on the same show back in the '80s -- wearing the same makeup and even nappier wigs. It's not a question of what they could find. It's an intentional component of their act.
Google exists, my friend. Go the extra mile.
Everywhere else in the world isn't America.
And that argument isn't automatically valid just because it plays on stereotypes about Americans. In fact, it's a particularly shoddy argument here because every element of the act in question was imported from the United States. And, just as a point of order, I loved overseas for two years. I'm perfectly fucking aware that "Everywhere else in the world isn't America." Even to the extent of knowing that Canadians and Mexicans find it insulting to have the United States equated to "America".
Mate, maybe they couldn't find any effing brown face paint?
Did you watch the video? They did the same routine on the same show back in the '80s -- wearing the same makeup and even nappier wigs. It's not a question of what they could find. It's an intentional component of their act.
I don't even know what a nappy wig IS
Google exists, my friend. Go the extra mile.
41
When we were recently in Australia, we had a Bosnian cab driver who WOULD NOT SHUT UP about the bloody Asians (i.e., Pakistanis and Indians) coming to this country and expecting everything to be handed to them and cheating the system and raping all our white wimmens and Christ only knows what else. I couldn't even get outraged because he was a FUCKING IMMIGRANT.
On the other hand I've met some of the loveliest people there, or from there.
But they, collectively, do have this huge blind spot on race. You see it here -- "we don't have a tradition of minstrel shows, so we can't be expected to know it's offensive" -- FALSE. Cartoon black people still abound in Australia; in downtown Melbourne there's a shop that sells nothing but Golliwog dolls, and not ironically, either. Cartoon representations of aboriginal people are still not uncommon; and outside of the major cities total segregation is still in force, with "bloody Abos" not permitted in the white part of the bar. Blacks still die in police custody at unbelievable rates. And it is still extremely common, in a way that hasn't been true in the US for at least three decades, to hear total strangers offer up little soliloquies on the many deficiencies of the dusky races.
And you still hear, here: "oh, we're just taking the piss, mate, we do it to everyone." It's absolutely grotesque.
On the other hand I've met some of the loveliest people there, or from there.
But they, collectively, do have this huge blind spot on race. You see it here -- "we don't have a tradition of minstrel shows, so we can't be expected to know it's offensive" -- FALSE. Cartoon black people still abound in Australia; in downtown Melbourne there's a shop that sells nothing but Golliwog dolls, and not ironically, either. Cartoon representations of aboriginal people are still not uncommon; and outside of the major cities total segregation is still in force, with "bloody Abos" not permitted in the white part of the bar. Blacks still die in police custody at unbelievable rates. And it is still extremely common, in a way that hasn't been true in the US for at least three decades, to hear total strangers offer up little soliloquies on the many deficiencies of the dusky races.
And you still hear, here: "oh, we're just taking the piss, mate, we do it to everyone." It's absolutely grotesque.
42
As a US expat living in Melbourne, I'd tend to say that race hasn't really been addressed yet. More and more here there is racial violence involving foreign students (typically Indian). There are plenty of people here who take offence at people from other countries coming to Australia and taking jobs and the like. You can see comments in the papers that sound like they are straight out of "Real America."
We aren't that different. It would be horribly obtuse to say that there is no race problem in Australia.
We aren't that different. It would be horribly obtuse to say that there is no race problem in Australia.
43
The word "abo" is like saying nigger here.Kind of underscores the point that its a case of different cultural sensitivities
44
Actually I thought I said, there is a likelihood that people may not understand the tradition of minstrel shows. But that still doesn't make it acceptable.
(By the way, I'm an Asian/White Australian, make of that what you will)
(By the way, I'm an Asian/White Australian, make of that what you will)
45
every element of the act in question was imported from the United States
In a very roundabout way, mind you. Australia has a long tradition of golliwog imagery, imported from the UK originally; the Brits got it from us, from traveling minstrel shows (and other non-minstrel black acts such as the Fisk Jubilee Singers) from as far back as the 1870s.
There isn't an Australian over the age of fifteen who doesn't know EXACTLY what's going on with that imagery. Arnott's sold "Golliwog" biscuits until a few years ago. Ditto Robertson's jam.
46
@40 Oh right, get smarmy about it. There would be no point in Googling it, since my actual reason for mentioning it WAS that I don't know what it is, because it's something that isn't a part of Australian culture.
I didn't even get what 'blackface' meant until I moved here and my husband (who is African-American, for the record so I guess I'm not automatically racist as an Australian) explained it to me.
I get that there is a lot in Aussie culture that seems racist. But we don't give things that meaning, we don't see things FOR the race differences and run to censor them. Ugh, I'm not eloquent enough to convey what I'm trying to say very well.
I didn't even get what 'blackface' meant until I moved here and my husband (who is African-American, for the record so I guess I'm not automatically racist as an Australian) explained it to me.
I get that there is a lot in Aussie culture that seems racist. But we don't give things that meaning, we don't see things FOR the race differences and run to censor them. Ugh, I'm not eloquent enough to convey what I'm trying to say very well.
48
@ 36, thanks. Americans rading this post, please view the following link:
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/20…
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/20…
49
It's true that racism exists in all countries (the usual Australian apologists' excuse), but Australia are the world champions.
51
@44 I'm not saying it's acceptable. In a global context, of course it's in poor taste. If I thought that any of those guys had for one second thought "he-he, we're making fun of black people" I'd roll over and give up my argument right now. But I honestly don't think they did.
It would have been nice if some smart fellow had thought "hey, that looks kind of like the old minstrel stuff, isn't that a touchy subject for Americans?" but I take it no-one did.
What I am saying is that this whole thing is a huge cultural gap, not a seething racial insult. You can't stick your own cultural taboos on something else and use it to claim that Australians are all racists.
I get passionate sticking up for Australia because I love the damn place. There are racists there, and there is racial inequality, especially outside of the cities. There are racists here, too. There are bad people and stupid people effing everywhere.
In this particular case, I maintain that it's not racist on behalf of the performers because it's imagery linked to a history of something from another country, which Australians in general would have no idea about.
I completely understand that an American can take one look at it and think "blackface", but you have to understand that the whole history of 'blackface' is an American thing and not expect Australians to know of it, much less actually understand it and be culturally sensitive to it. They weren't TRYING to be racist, they weren't even being racist WITHIN the cultural context, they were just dressing up! It's a culture gap, people!
It would have been nice if some smart fellow had thought "hey, that looks kind of like the old minstrel stuff, isn't that a touchy subject for Americans?" but I take it no-one did.
What I am saying is that this whole thing is a huge cultural gap, not a seething racial insult. You can't stick your own cultural taboos on something else and use it to claim that Australians are all racists.
I get passionate sticking up for Australia because I love the damn place. There are racists there, and there is racial inequality, especially outside of the cities. There are racists here, too. There are bad people and stupid people effing everywhere.
In this particular case, I maintain that it's not racist on behalf of the performers because it's imagery linked to a history of something from another country, which Australians in general would have no idea about.
I completely understand that an American can take one look at it and think "blackface", but you have to understand that the whole history of 'blackface' is an American thing and not expect Australians to know of it, much less actually understand it and be culturally sensitive to it. They weren't TRYING to be racist, they weren't even being racist WITHIN the cultural context, they were just dressing up! It's a culture gap, people!
52
No, the word isn't part of Australian culture. The concept definitely is. It appears in those ridiculous dolls, among other things.
Look, until pretty recently -- and probably still in some places -- the generic word for a gay man in France was "pédéraste." When they said pédéraste in the context of a gay man they didn't mean that the individual gay man in question had sex with children. That was just their idiom. But neither was the use of the word neutral; it was incredibly loaded. The fact that most people hadn't thought about it didn't make it any less homophobic. It just meant that homophobia was such an accepted and unexamined element of most strata of French culture that it never occurred to most people who used the word how incredibly offensive it was.
If an American talking to a French person heard them use that word and expressed dismay at it, the French person -- back in that time -- would have shut them down pretty hard saying things like, "It's just how we are. We don't mean anything by it," etc.
In the case in question, frankly, I'm prepared not to get into it with an Australian about how Ausies deal with their Aboriginal citizens. Go your way. But when you use American racist performance traditions to mock an American cultural icon when you know an American will be watching, I tend to file you under "asshole" and chuck anyone who defends you in there too. The fact that racism is ACCEPTABLE where you come from doesn't mean it's not fucking racism.
Furthermore, lack of overt conflict on this issue in Australia does not mean the issue doesn't exist in Australia.
I don't know what it is, because it's something that isn't a part of Australian culture
No, the word isn't part of Australian culture. The concept definitely is. It appears in those ridiculous dolls, among other things.
Look, until pretty recently -- and probably still in some places -- the generic word for a gay man in France was "pédéraste." When they said pédéraste in the context of a gay man they didn't mean that the individual gay man in question had sex with children. That was just their idiom. But neither was the use of the word neutral; it was incredibly loaded. The fact that most people hadn't thought about it didn't make it any less homophobic. It just meant that homophobia was such an accepted and unexamined element of most strata of French culture that it never occurred to most people who used the word how incredibly offensive it was.
If an American talking to a French person heard them use that word and expressed dismay at it, the French person -- back in that time -- would have shut them down pretty hard saying things like, "It's just how we are. We don't mean anything by it," etc.
In the case in question, frankly, I'm prepared not to get into it with an Australian about how Ausies deal with their Aboriginal citizens. Go your way. But when you use American racist performance traditions to mock an American cultural icon when you know an American will be watching, I tend to file you under "asshole" and chuck anyone who defends you in there too. The fact that racism is ACCEPTABLE where you come from doesn't mean it's not fucking racism.
Furthermore, lack of overt conflict on this issue in Australia does not mean the issue doesn't exist in Australia.
53
First of all I am Australian ,just so as you know my agender ,the five guys in the Jackson Jive skit are all diferent racial backgrounds in particular the lead singer is of Indian decent ,what this goes to prove is that anyone can come here and be anything they wish and also enjoy the Australian sense of humour ,these guys did this skit back in 1989 when they where medical students they are all now medical specialists . One of your ealier psoters actually mention Australia never having and "Abo" Prime minister ,the word "Abo" is truly offensive always has been always will be.
Americans you need to get over yourselfs and come to terms with what you have done in the past ,maybe if you all settled down and learned to laugh at yourself first (the way Aussies do) things would start to get better.
Americans you need to get over yourselfs and come to terms with what you have done in the past ,maybe if you all settled down and learned to laugh at yourself first (the way Aussies do) things would start to get better.
54
I find it difficult to take anything America has to say about Australian culture seriously. We'll deal with our own issues and problems thank you. You should learn to take your noses out of other countries business. Written not only by an Australian but also as a citizen of the rest of the world.
55
I'm an American living in Aus for 40 years. AS the act came on I was as uncomfortable as Connick and wondering what they were thinking. The black face, the poor taste, and the put on 'voices' ... the kind of voices usesd to imitate black people over the years... In fact, the style of voice used by Downey Jr in tropic thunder where he managed to take the piss out of black people and, presumably Russell Crowe all at the same time.
The skit was ill considered and could be viewed as racist. The interesting part was my wife did not understand the undertones and when the act finished, I had to explain to my thirteen year old why, for a number of reasons, the act could be seen as offensive.
The fact that two of the performers were black should knock the notion of racism out of the park. My view stands that it was more bad taste than anything done with evil intent.
The view here is different and no matter what American's say, you can't force your opinion on what is offensive on another nations people. Oh wait... that's right. We are Americans. It's okay to bomb the f$ck out of other countries and loot and pillage as we witness the fight on terror.
If America would transpose the tax money spent on military with the money spent on health care, the entire world would be a better place....
In saying all of this, Australia needs some wake ups. Not very long ago, we had two police transport officers take an man in a steel boxed (paddy wagon) several hundred miles on a very hot day without air conditioning. The man was Aboriginal and DOA. His body was covered with burns and he suffered an agonising death.
WE all need to wake up... but Americans throwing stones? Come on...
The skit was ill considered and could be viewed as racist. The interesting part was my wife did not understand the undertones and when the act finished, I had to explain to my thirteen year old why, for a number of reasons, the act could be seen as offensive.
The fact that two of the performers were black should knock the notion of racism out of the park. My view stands that it was more bad taste than anything done with evil intent.
The view here is different and no matter what American's say, you can't force your opinion on what is offensive on another nations people. Oh wait... that's right. We are Americans. It's okay to bomb the f$ck out of other countries and loot and pillage as we witness the fight on terror.
If America would transpose the tax money spent on military with the money spent on health care, the entire world would be a better place....
In saying all of this, Australia needs some wake ups. Not very long ago, we had two police transport officers take an man in a steel boxed (paddy wagon) several hundred miles on a very hot day without air conditioning. The man was Aboriginal and DOA. His body was covered with burns and he suffered an agonising death.
WE all need to wake up... but Americans throwing stones? Come on...
57
Black Face is offensive because it seeks to demean the subjects. There are exceptions, Al Jolson admired and sought to emulate Black minstrels, but in the end it was demeaning as well.
Drag Performers don't seek to demean women, quite the opposite, so it's comparing apples to oranges.
The Aussie performers sought to be funny, but they were being insulting and they knew it, but obviously it didn't matter to either them or their audience.
Americans got past Black Face back in the 1930's, not that we're not still racist, but in seeking to ostracize offensive behavior we're moving in the right direction.
That being said, I was unaware of the racism problem in Australia, which is of immediate concern to me as I'm considering emigrating there with my bi-national partner. They ARE more advanced on legal rights for gays and lesbians. It concerns me especially because my partner is Asian and the Connick story led me to do some googling. Here's a recent article (Jan, '09) concerning the national problem of racism in Australia.
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle…
It's pretty disturbing stuff. Aborigines weren't people until 1967, they were classified as 'flora and fauna' - I kid you not.
I've got some contemplating to do.
Drag Performers don't seek to demean women, quite the opposite, so it's comparing apples to oranges.
The Aussie performers sought to be funny, but they were being insulting and they knew it, but obviously it didn't matter to either them or their audience.
Americans got past Black Face back in the 1930's, not that we're not still racist, but in seeking to ostracize offensive behavior we're moving in the right direction.
That being said, I was unaware of the racism problem in Australia, which is of immediate concern to me as I'm considering emigrating there with my bi-national partner. They ARE more advanced on legal rights for gays and lesbians. It concerns me especially because my partner is Asian and the Connick story led me to do some googling. Here's a recent article (Jan, '09) concerning the national problem of racism in Australia.
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle…
It's pretty disturbing stuff. Aborigines weren't people until 1967, they were classified as 'flora and fauna' - I kid you not.
I've got some contemplating to do.
59
Americans are amonsgt the most uptight people on earth and the most hypocritical. When I am there the 'non-spoken' prejudice against black people is quite evident, and they disguise it with all this shock and horror over others alleged racism. Our way of life is very different to Americans, we 'take the piss' out of everything, ourselves included. We are known for our 'laid back' attitude. America has had such immense problems with treating their black people as 2nd rate, that the slightest little thing is now seen as racist.The main guy in that skit was a coloured person, an Indian doctor. If they had done the skit without the black paint, would that have been suitable?
60
I am a white Australian and I thought the skit was disgraceful, however, I must point out that the show in question hasn't been on television for 20 years and dare I say it, it will most definately be canned, never to be shown again. Apologies to anybody or any race that was offended by it - there is certainly a public backlash going on here in Melbourne at the moment.
Kind regards
Jeremy Johnstone
Heidelberg, Melbourne
Kind regards
Jeremy Johnstone
Heidelberg, Melbourne
61
"...by featuring a ridiculous act in blackface"
Surprising that this was not complained of when Robert Downey Jr played and australian who had surgery to be an african american in Tropic Thunder ....
How typically double standard of the Americans .... they can do it ... but noone else can ....
Surprising that this was not complained of when Robert Downey Jr played and australian who had surgery to be an african american in Tropic Thunder ....
How typically double standard of the Americans .... they can do it ... but noone else can ....
63
I'm so sick of everything having a 'racist' connotation. See it for what it was. A bunch of guys parodying the Jackson 5 and dressing up to look like them. Why so we have to read so much more into it? There is a real danger that if people are unfairly labelled racists then they may as well live up to the accusations and start acting like racists.
64
@61, there's this little thing called "awareness". You should look into it. Downey's use of blackface was done in the context of a dialog about race. The subject came up IN THE MOVIE. And his blackface wasn't golliwog style. This Aussie example demonstrated a truly stunning lack of awareness on all fronts -- and it's not even the dancers I'm appalled by -- it's that greasy host and his repellent bewigged cohost and the producers and the other judges, who all thought the thing was hilarious, really good stuff.
Go on, though. We're enjoying watching you people prove that Kath & Kim was a documentary.
Go on, though. We're enjoying watching you people prove that Kath & Kim was a documentary.
65
Man, it's youtube comments. Let's just count our blessings that they're not talking about 9/11 conspiracy theories.
66
Fnarf-
"There isn't an Australian over the age of fifteen who doesn't know EXACTLY what's going on with that imagery."
I'm sorry, but that is a blatant lie. I was raised in Australia - maybe I just lived in a pretty progressive town? I was taught that skin color (and gender, and sexual orientation) makes no difference in the value of a human, and that everyone is equal. So why would I think that there is anything "going on with that imagery"?
Judah -
"In the case in question, frankly, I'm prepared not to get into it with an Australian about how Ausies deal with their Aboriginal citizens."
And that's something I wouldn't dream of defending. It sounds like we'd have the same view. But, I'm not trying to argue that, I'm just talking about this clip and trying to share my genuine belief that it was a completely innocent skit which translates in a very unfortunate way to other cultures.
Scaramanga -
"Yes it is a culture gap; between the civilized world and the not-so-civilized world. "
And what a civil comment that is.
Everyone - SEE? Post 55 everybody, his wife needed it explained to him. Before I moved to the states, *I* would have needed it explained to me. Many of you are assuming there's "no way" the performers could have not known (*cough* post 57 *cough*), but that is simply not the case.
And you wonder why other countries aren't always your fans, when you assume the rest of the world knows and understands your cultural history!
And yes, Amerstralian, I'll agree that Australia needs a lot of work on the race front. Although, I maintain we're better than where I am (Cali) only because of the prejudice I have seen (and see every damn day) against Mexican people.
...now I wish I'd seen Tropic Thunder.
More...
"There isn't an Australian over the age of fifteen who doesn't know EXACTLY what's going on with that imagery."
I'm sorry, but that is a blatant lie. I was raised in Australia - maybe I just lived in a pretty progressive town? I was taught that skin color (and gender, and sexual orientation) makes no difference in the value of a human, and that everyone is equal. So why would I think that there is anything "going on with that imagery"?
Judah -
"In the case in question, frankly, I'm prepared not to get into it with an Australian about how Ausies deal with their Aboriginal citizens."
And that's something I wouldn't dream of defending. It sounds like we'd have the same view. But, I'm not trying to argue that, I'm just talking about this clip and trying to share my genuine belief that it was a completely innocent skit which translates in a very unfortunate way to other cultures.
Scaramanga -
"Yes it is a culture gap; between the civilized world and the not-so-civilized world. "
And what a civil comment that is.
Everyone - SEE? Post 55 everybody, his wife needed it explained to him. Before I moved to the states, *I* would have needed it explained to me. Many of you are assuming there's "no way" the performers could have not known (*cough* post 57 *cough*), but that is simply not the case.
And you wonder why other countries aren't always your fans, when you assume the rest of the world knows and understands your cultural history!
And yes, Amerstralian, I'll agree that Australia needs a lot of work on the race front. Although, I maintain we're better than where I am (Cali) only because of the prejudice I have seen (and see every damn day) against Mexican people.
...now I wish I'd seen Tropic Thunder.
67
Plenty of Australians are ignorant about the tradition of minstrel shows in America, but that's not an excuse, it's a condemnation.
They're also ignorant about the shocking conditions some Aboriginals are living in. Last year, an Aborginal man in Western Australia died during prisoner transport, when he was kept in the back of a van for four hours, in 100 degree heat, without air conditioning or water. Dogs would be treated better.
They're also ignorant about the shocking conditions some Aboriginals are living in. Last year, an Aborginal man in Western Australia died during prisoner transport, when he was kept in the back of a van for four hours, in 100 degree heat, without air conditioning or water. Dogs would be treated better.
69
I'm an Aussie from Melbourne and when I watched it last live last night I must admit my immediate reaction was that it was wrong and shouldn't be on TV, although to be fair I had the same feeling when I saw Robert Downey in Tropic Thunder (although he seemed to have come down on the right side of public opinion with that one). As you can imagine there's been a fair amount of coverage on this one and the performers themselves are upset at the reaction as they did raise concerns with the producers before the show about the potential backlash. As it happens, the group are all too aware of impact of racism as two of them have come from India and another from Lebanon.
Having listened to them it's clear that they did not INTEND to cause offense but fully acknowledge that offense was caused. What is important here is they have apologized and hopefully lessons will be learnt. As for offending the American guest I was impressed that the host of the show appoligised live on air and allowed him to express his opinion.
But please, please, please, to all those "perfect American's" who seem to believe that their country is the only one not to falter and would never offend others. keep in mind that you do quite often offend, I've seen in the faces of the British while living in the UK when American's inevitably say "You'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us" (this is not true by the way - study the "Battle of Britain") and also as an Australian who has to endure the "you were a prison/convict" quip every time we dare offend you. Australia has it's problems but as the aftermath of last night shows we're prepared to deal with them. I guess our only redeeming feature at the moment is, we didn't vote George W. Bush in (twice) b-)
Having listened to them it's clear that they did not INTEND to cause offense but fully acknowledge that offense was caused. What is important here is they have apologized and hopefully lessons will be learnt. As for offending the American guest I was impressed that the host of the show appoligised live on air and allowed him to express his opinion.
But please, please, please, to all those "perfect American's" who seem to believe that their country is the only one not to falter and would never offend others. keep in mind that you do quite often offend, I've seen in the faces of the British while living in the UK when American's inevitably say "You'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us" (this is not true by the way - study the "Battle of Britain") and also as an Australian who has to endure the "you were a prison/convict" quip every time we dare offend you. Australia has it's problems but as the aftermath of last night shows we're prepared to deal with them. I guess our only redeeming feature at the moment is, we didn't vote George W. Bush in (twice) b-)
70
the word "Abo" is truly offensive always has been always will be.
Then explain to me why it's so common to hear it and read it? Seriously, mate, you can't hardly walk down the street without someone telling you about the bastards who won't get off their fat black asses etc. etc.
It's a racist country. I love it but it's a racist country.
71
Fifty two eighty - F*ck*ng Abo -where do you get off, that is just as bad you hypocrite. Next time you have an opinion don't do what you condemn in your own post. You Sir are just as racist as the rest of the world.
72
What I was trying to post was an article from the 7th on this very site, titled:
"we-dont-like-them-eye-talians-in-virginny"
This from a white american POLITICIAN...
As opposed to a couple of immigrant people educated in Australia to become part of the pillars of a strongly multicultural Australian medical fraternity who decided to do something humorous on a TV show that is specifically designed to take unskilled performers who are willing to put their ego on the line for a laugh. Its the Aussie way. We have comedians, immigrants who take the piss out of their own race. We have immigrants that take the piss out of other races. We have immigrants who take the piss out of Australians.
And yes, sometimes the subtext is saying something. Usually then we end up discussing in rationally. Take a chill pill, or as one Aussie would say to another (aussie means someone residing here long enough to be a citizen who understands the culture) drink a cup of concrete and harden the f%%k up!
"we-dont-like-them-eye-talians-in-virginny"
This from a white american POLITICIAN...
As opposed to a couple of immigrant people educated in Australia to become part of the pillars of a strongly multicultural Australian medical fraternity who decided to do something humorous on a TV show that is specifically designed to take unskilled performers who are willing to put their ego on the line for a laugh. Its the Aussie way. We have comedians, immigrants who take the piss out of their own race. We have immigrants that take the piss out of other races. We have immigrants who take the piss out of Australians.
And yes, sometimes the subtext is saying something. Usually then we end up discussing in rationally. Take a chill pill, or as one Aussie would say to another (aussie means someone residing here long enough to be a citizen who understands the culture) drink a cup of concrete and harden the f%%k up!
73
@64 what a great comeback ,your comment on Kath and Kim is very good ,this just proves our point we laugh at pourselves as much as we laugh at others ,sometimes we go to far admittedly but really is it because you guys invented the black face Al Jolson style of entertainment.
Perhaps Kath and Kim will be reviled in the future when the Westies of Australia (equivilent of red necks in the US) claim they are discrimminated against unfairly and god forbid this show will be banned also.
For the record I am decended from second fleet convicts and yes I am white but I also have jewish ancestory ,my husband has a tiny bit of Aboriginal blood in him and is also desended from New Zealand ,we are a typical Heinz 57 variety Australian and all the better for it thank you very much ,we have a saying in Australia about Winging poms I think we should change it to winging Yanks as a bigger bunch of moaners I have never seen before ,perhaps all of this jealousy over your 13th ranking in the UN index of standard of living recently ,we where number 2 so we must be doing something right.
G'day to you and if you ever come to Australia drop me a line and and I'll buy you a beer.
Perhaps Kath and Kim will be reviled in the future when the Westies of Australia (equivilent of red necks in the US) claim they are discrimminated against unfairly and god forbid this show will be banned also.
For the record I am decended from second fleet convicts and yes I am white but I also have jewish ancestory ,my husband has a tiny bit of Aboriginal blood in him and is also desended from New Zealand ,we are a typical Heinz 57 variety Australian and all the better for it thank you very much ,we have a saying in Australia about Winging poms I think we should change it to winging Yanks as a bigger bunch of moaners I have never seen before ,perhaps all of this jealousy over your 13th ranking in the UN index of standard of living recently ,we where number 2 so we must be doing something right.
G'day to you and if you ever come to Australia drop me a line and and I'll buy you a beer.
74
I think Connick's reaction was the right one. As an American (and especially with his background), he does not find blackface perfomance acceptable. He does not directly bash the performers on that show for their choice of material, and their follow up comments show that they were not intent on insulting anyone. They thought it was funny, as did a lot of their countrymen. American comedians have gone much farther into bad taste in search of audience approval.
Harry Connick Jr showed himself to be a "good" American: he stood up for American values, but did not deny others their right to expression.
Harry, if Australia wants to be mad at you, we've got your back, brother.
Harry Connick Jr showed himself to be a "good" American: he stood up for American values, but did not deny others their right to expression.
Harry, if Australia wants to be mad at you, we've got your back, brother.
75
@41, I think that's a pretty astute observation about Australia. Generalisations always do violence to the huge numbers of exceptions, but I think it's unrealistic for anyone to suggest that Australia doesn't have a serious problem with racism. I didn't know about that skit until I just looked on Slog, and I live in Australia. That of itself is an indictment. There should have been absolute outrage about it in the broadsheets, on the internet, at the proverbial office coffee machines etc. But I didn't hear a word.
Grotesque is absolutely spot on. That skit was completely grotesque. What's worse is the failure or unwillingness to understand what was wrong with it. The old "we don't understand the cultural sensitivity" argument is infuriating. As if you need to be versed in the cultural history of 19th century America to perceive that caricaturing an oppressed race in such a degrading fashion is insulting.
Australia's treatment of our indigenous population is an outrage. The typical Australian response when a torch is shone upon us from overseas is the kind of defensive parocial nonsense you see in those youtube comments. It's a disgrace.
Reading this post, reading those responses, and seeing the lack of insight by my compatriot posters (like Shazza @53) leave me with an awful feeling that I can only describe as shame.
Grotesque is absolutely spot on. That skit was completely grotesque. What's worse is the failure or unwillingness to understand what was wrong with it. The old "we don't understand the cultural sensitivity" argument is infuriating. As if you need to be versed in the cultural history of 19th century America to perceive that caricaturing an oppressed race in such a degrading fashion is insulting.
Australia's treatment of our indigenous population is an outrage. The typical Australian response when a torch is shone upon us from overseas is the kind of defensive parocial nonsense you see in those youtube comments. It's a disgrace.
Reading this post, reading those responses, and seeing the lack of insight by my compatriot posters (like Shazza @53) leave me with an awful feeling that I can only describe as shame.
76
As an Aussie, I am ashamed this went to air. It was disgusting and racist and I am very sad that so many Aussies are defending it. There are still far too many racists living in Australia, but please understand that we are not all like that, and that many of us deplore racism and are truly ashamed by this.
Good on ya Harry for speaking up...the world has been giving Australia a pass on racism for far too long.
Good on ya Harry for speaking up...the world has been giving Australia a pass on racism for far too long.
78
My, how the Americans love to label others as racist. At least Australians didn't import other races as slaves. And before you have a go at our treatment of Aborigines, Australian Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders enjoy welfare benefits and other services FAR above those available to any other Australian citizens. How do you treat your native Americans and African Americans? Do they enjoy the same inflated benefits just because of their heritage?
79
One other observation. You often hear Australians accuse America of being a racist country. No doubt America has serious struggles with racism, but that's partly because it is such an ethnic melting pot. Vast swaths of Australia are completely homogenous. It's relatively easy to avoid overt signs of racism in such environments. Anywhere in this country where there are significant populations of varied ethnic and racial backgrounds you will find evidence of direct and indirect racism. Personally I think America does a much better job of dealing with racism than Australia. One reason for that is that you don't find Americans getting defensive or denying the issues when they're raised. Self awareness is the first step to recovery, and in Australia we haven't even got that far yet. This whole post is testament to that. Thanks to David for raising it on Slog. I wish more journalists in my own country had done the same.
81
Black, white, brown, red, green, blonde, redhead...who gives a f%&k. Let's build a bridge and get over it!
82
@3 You said:
"Oh, so now they're all enlightened and shit. Right. I'll believe it when they elect an Abo president."
As 43 said, the word "abo" is like saying "nigger" here. In your attempts to prove just how accepting and nonracist you are, you simply ended up insulting another marginalised race without even thinking to find out about Australian culture and the connotations of the word "abo". It's strange then that you should expect all Australians to be acutely aware of American race relations and culture. What a hypocrite. Take your falsely progressive ideas elsewhere. And by your utterance of that one word "abo" and by the general vein of the comments here, I take it I can now assume all Americans are racist pigs because one of you called an Indigenous Australian an abo?
That said, how about I take the time to say any Australian with even the slightest sense would take offence to this skit. Okay, so maybe not everyone realised it was racist on the first count, but thumbs up to Robert for telling people. I know any progressive person would have been appalled by the skit anyway. The examples you are citing as evidence of a backward nation are exactly that: examples. You can't pluck a few voices off Youtube (YOUTUBE? Seriously?) and pretend that's your damning evidence for your case of Australians being inherently racist.
"Oh, so now they're all enlightened and shit. Right. I'll believe it when they elect an Abo president."
As 43 said, the word "abo" is like saying "nigger" here. In your attempts to prove just how accepting and nonracist you are, you simply ended up insulting another marginalised race without even thinking to find out about Australian culture and the connotations of the word "abo". It's strange then that you should expect all Australians to be acutely aware of American race relations and culture. What a hypocrite. Take your falsely progressive ideas elsewhere. And by your utterance of that one word "abo" and by the general vein of the comments here, I take it I can now assume all Americans are racist pigs because one of you called an Indigenous Australian an abo?
That said, how about I take the time to say any Australian with even the slightest sense would take offence to this skit. Okay, so maybe not everyone realised it was racist on the first count, but thumbs up to Robert for telling people. I know any progressive person would have been appalled by the skit anyway. The examples you are citing as evidence of a backward nation are exactly that: examples. You can't pluck a few voices off Youtube (YOUTUBE? Seriously?) and pretend that's your damning evidence for your case of Australians being inherently racist.
83
There are a lot of points to make about this.
In my opinion they were idiots to do that skit, and people at home that didn't realise the potential harm of such a skit until Harry spoke up must've been half asleep. The producers are completely to blame for allowing it to air and cause this whole affair.
Whether some Australians feel that we have such a cultural diversity that we no longer are binded by racial tensions is irrelevant when we are talking about a throwback to a 20 year old skit that was a throwback to minstrel shows and golliwogs, which are inherited concepts from the UK & US that never really had a big place in Australia. The fact is that they are quite evidently offensive and should never have been put to air.
Concerning to me is the number of responses to the incident relating it to Indian students. Even in those cases, racism rarely appears to be a motivational cause even though it is instantly assumed. You would never find me walking after midnight alone in the back streets of the outer city, that is when and where at least two of the attacks have occurred. There is has been a state wide rise in violence in Victoria and the urban location of many students, travelling alone, late nights and a tendency to walk or take public transport place them in the firing line. I can hardly believe that even a visiting American who stayed for an extensive period could be sucked into the hype of the Indian press.
The most important one to me is that I ask that people from overseas please remember
Australia may look kind of small on a map... it is actually quite big, there are lots of people too. We are a multicultural society to the point where the large majority of our citizen's parents were born overseas, where else can claim that? Australia was not in that skit. There were 6 people an idiot judge and out of date TV show. Not Australia. Stop randomly insulting Australians in your posts.
Your responses are being racist to the concept of a generalised and stereotypical concept of an Australian which rather than presenting your Western, larger population, bigger economy superiority it is actually demonstrating the inbuilt racism and disrespect you show a smaller nation and it's people like Australia. Stop being racist to an entire country, whilst using an irrelevant skit as some kinds of an attempt towards a justification.
Basically FUCK OFF
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In my opinion they were idiots to do that skit, and people at home that didn't realise the potential harm of such a skit until Harry spoke up must've been half asleep. The producers are completely to blame for allowing it to air and cause this whole affair.
Whether some Australians feel that we have such a cultural diversity that we no longer are binded by racial tensions is irrelevant when we are talking about a throwback to a 20 year old skit that was a throwback to minstrel shows and golliwogs, which are inherited concepts from the UK & US that never really had a big place in Australia. The fact is that they are quite evidently offensive and should never have been put to air.
Concerning to me is the number of responses to the incident relating it to Indian students. Even in those cases, racism rarely appears to be a motivational cause even though it is instantly assumed. You would never find me walking after midnight alone in the back streets of the outer city, that is when and where at least two of the attacks have occurred. There is has been a state wide rise in violence in Victoria and the urban location of many students, travelling alone, late nights and a tendency to walk or take public transport place them in the firing line. I can hardly believe that even a visiting American who stayed for an extensive period could be sucked into the hype of the Indian press.
The most important one to me is that I ask that people from overseas please remember
Australia may look kind of small on a map... it is actually quite big, there are lots of people too. We are a multicultural society to the point where the large majority of our citizen's parents were born overseas, where else can claim that? Australia was not in that skit. There were 6 people an idiot judge and out of date TV show. Not Australia. Stop randomly insulting Australians in your posts.
Your responses are being racist to the concept of a generalised and stereotypical concept of an Australian which rather than presenting your Western, larger population, bigger economy superiority it is actually demonstrating the inbuilt racism and disrespect you show a smaller nation and it's people like Australia. Stop being racist to an entire country, whilst using an irrelevant skit as some kinds of an attempt towards a justification.
Basically FUCK OFF
84
I totally agree with Efnaf at post #41 and everything posted there....EXCEPT for the part that we are all like that. Some of us hate the racism in Australia and are absolutely disgusted by it. If you check our local news sites and some of the coments there, you will see there are Aussies that are disgusted and ashamed that Australians would think it ok to broadcast such racist rubbish.
Honestly, we are not all like that...I'd say at least 20% of us see it for what it is, so please don't lump us in with the others!
Honestly, we are not all like that...I'd say at least 20% of us see it for what it is, so please don't lump us in with the others!
85
I think the American view of this act is political correctness gone overboard. I think America does a lot for the world - but really don't try to influence our culture with YOUR SHAMEFUL PAST. It was a act done with good intentions. Enough said. What about your American movie "White Chicks" where black's impersonate white's? Hypocritical much? Why can't white people say "nugger" while Black's can say "white cracker" without white people taking offence? Both terms have historical connections but I feel a sense of hierocracy?
86
get over yourselves Australia...you're just as racist (and homophobic) as the rest of the world...
and, blackface is lame.
and, blackface is lame.
87
@86
Exactly. Just as racist as the rest of the world, not any worse as everyone seems to be saying.
Exactly. Just as racist as the rest of the world, not any worse as everyone seems to be saying.
88
Poster #53....my fellow Aussie....you just don't get it.
All this proves is that in Australia, even our immigrants often become racists.....and any non-racist Aussie has witnessed this before and can see it for what it is.
The fact these guys are Doctors makes it even worse....they are presumably educated and should know better.
I wish the racist Aussies would quit posting to these boards and trying to defend what happened....you give the rest of us, and our country, a very bad name.
All this proves is that in Australia, even our immigrants often become racists.....and any non-racist Aussie has witnessed this before and can see it for what it is.
The fact these guys are Doctors makes it even worse....they are presumably educated and should know better.
I wish the racist Aussies would quit posting to these boards and trying to defend what happened....you give the rest of us, and our country, a very bad name.
89
I wouldn't be so quick to pronounce Aussie Steve. I think the issue runs deeper than your summation. Surely the skit was in poor taste, but I suspect the real issue is the natural - understandable, in my view - Australian defensiveness to British and American writers dismissing Australia as simply a racist backwater country (see The Guardian post on this, for example). For anyone who has visited the countries which these writers come from (ie: the UK or the US) this is difficult to accept without challenge.
Surely recent history suggests that all of these countries comprise substantial pockets of racism toward certain ethnic groups. As I say in post 77 above, it is difficult for me to accept an American taking offence to this skit and yet not speaking up on obviosuly more substantial issues. If he is credible then there is much work to be done on his return. The same could of course be said for our Guardian correspondent in the UK where, need I remind them, the far right BNP recently won two seats in the European Parliament - we're talking two seats in Congress!
This is not to excuse the produceers of the Australian show, but to say that if you are really concerned about racism issues then I suspect there are plenty to address in all of the former (English) colonies. Not to mention French or Italian protectorates, or dare I mention Liberia...
Surely recent history suggests that all of these countries comprise substantial pockets of racism toward certain ethnic groups. As I say in post 77 above, it is difficult for me to accept an American taking offence to this skit and yet not speaking up on obviosuly more substantial issues. If he is credible then there is much work to be done on his return. The same could of course be said for our Guardian correspondent in the UK where, need I remind them, the far right BNP recently won two seats in the European Parliament - we're talking two seats in Congress!
This is not to excuse the produceers of the Australian show, but to say that if you are really concerned about racism issues then I suspect there are plenty to address in all of the former (English) colonies. Not to mention French or Italian protectorates, or dare I mention Liberia...
90
Over It....your comment re "at least Australians didn't import people as slaves" shows your ignorance of Australia's history as a racist nation. Have you ever heard of the "white Australia policy"?
91
My goodness - how hypocritical so many of these posts are!!
Firstly, to be clear, I watched this skit at home and as an Australian I did take offence and found it culturually insensitive - to assume that all Australians are racist because this was on TV is...well narrow minded in itself. I was incredilby surprised it went to air.
However, this show's format is traditionally live, fairly un-rehearsed and has never been preoccupied with censorship. I agree with Australians posting here that we don't tend to take ourselves too seriously on TV, and this segment is generally ridiculous, silly and unpredicatble. They obviously went too far with this skit, it was racist and offeneded an American guest, as well as plenty of Australians I'm sure. But an apology was made on air and the guest given a chance to air his views. It's not as though this is the first controversial thing to have ever happened on live television!
As Australians we are constantly bombarded by content from American television and movies that is crass, racist, sexist and offensive (anyone see Rob Shcneider in Big Stan recently offending every minority group possible?) We don't feel the need to rant on a blog every time it happens. An isolated incident occurs on Australian TV and everyone seems to be up in arms!!
It constantly surprises me how unaware Americans often are that around the world they considered some of the most narrow minded, ignorant and culturally insensitive people on the planet. I do not agree that labelling every American as a dumb redneck is a correct assessment, this is of course unfair. But the sentiment that Americans can be quite insular, arrogant and culturally narrow minded is definitely felt deeply throughout the world. So I find it hypocritical to read these rants about Australians and our apparent complete ignorance around other cultures. Do you know how many times I've been told by Americans while travelling that I speak good English for an Australian?
There are lots of comments here about Australia's racial issues - and the heading implies we are all just racist, ignorant idiots. I agree we have issues with racism, that need to be addressed. But do you think Americans don't as well? Hiding behind political correctness and censorship does not mean these issues don't still exist. The sensitivity around the "black skit" is in fact entrenched in a history of Hollywood oppression and ridicule of African Americans, so the sensitivity is felt more keenly in the US than in Australia. I believe the skit on Hey Hey was an error in judegement, but I agree with other comments here that some Australians would have seen the painting of faces as a costume specific to this partcicularly singing group, a group of guys actually sending up themselves, and not intended to cause offence or to be racially degrading. It was definitely an error, but I believe the show continuing to blunder on was a blunder of innocence rather than ignorance.
Please for those Americans on their cultural high horse on this blog, please step down a little to see that while Australians and others around the world need to resepect Amercian opinions and cultural sensitivities, you should do the same for us and appreciate we don't all think exactly as you do. And though this was a big mistake on our behalf, it was dealt with, a lesson was learnt and an apology issued on national TV. Not such a bad thing.
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Firstly, to be clear, I watched this skit at home and as an Australian I did take offence and found it culturually insensitive - to assume that all Australians are racist because this was on TV is...well narrow minded in itself. I was incredilby surprised it went to air.
However, this show's format is traditionally live, fairly un-rehearsed and has never been preoccupied with censorship. I agree with Australians posting here that we don't tend to take ourselves too seriously on TV, and this segment is generally ridiculous, silly and unpredicatble. They obviously went too far with this skit, it was racist and offeneded an American guest, as well as plenty of Australians I'm sure. But an apology was made on air and the guest given a chance to air his views. It's not as though this is the first controversial thing to have ever happened on live television!
As Australians we are constantly bombarded by content from American television and movies that is crass, racist, sexist and offensive (anyone see Rob Shcneider in Big Stan recently offending every minority group possible?) We don't feel the need to rant on a blog every time it happens. An isolated incident occurs on Australian TV and everyone seems to be up in arms!!
It constantly surprises me how unaware Americans often are that around the world they considered some of the most narrow minded, ignorant and culturally insensitive people on the planet. I do not agree that labelling every American as a dumb redneck is a correct assessment, this is of course unfair. But the sentiment that Americans can be quite insular, arrogant and culturally narrow minded is definitely felt deeply throughout the world. So I find it hypocritical to read these rants about Australians and our apparent complete ignorance around other cultures. Do you know how many times I've been told by Americans while travelling that I speak good English for an Australian?
There are lots of comments here about Australia's racial issues - and the heading implies we are all just racist, ignorant idiots. I agree we have issues with racism, that need to be addressed. But do you think Americans don't as well? Hiding behind political correctness and censorship does not mean these issues don't still exist. The sensitivity around the "black skit" is in fact entrenched in a history of Hollywood oppression and ridicule of African Americans, so the sensitivity is felt more keenly in the US than in Australia. I believe the skit on Hey Hey was an error in judegement, but I agree with other comments here that some Australians would have seen the painting of faces as a costume specific to this partcicularly singing group, a group of guys actually sending up themselves, and not intended to cause offence or to be racially degrading. It was definitely an error, but I believe the show continuing to blunder on was a blunder of innocence rather than ignorance.
Please for those Americans on their cultural high horse on this blog, please step down a little to see that while Australians and others around the world need to resepect Amercian opinions and cultural sensitivities, you should do the same for us and appreciate we don't all think exactly as you do. And though this was a big mistake on our behalf, it was dealt with, a lesson was learnt and an apology issued on national TV. Not such a bad thing.
92
Let's all calm down and enjoy this Seinfeld quote about the black and white cookie (says it all):
"Nothing mixes better than vanilla and chocolate. And yet, still, somehow racial harmony eludes us. If people would only look to the cookie. All our problems would be solved."
Mmm, now I'm hungry :)
"Nothing mixes better than vanilla and chocolate. And yet, still, somehow racial harmony eludes us. If people would only look to the cookie. All our problems would be solved."
Mmm, now I'm hungry :)
93
poster 88 ,stop sucking up to the other over inflated egoes on this sight ,last night's act was funny ,but not half as funny as the reactions it received , firstly the rightful indignation Harry showed (I actually felt for hime because he new what was coming) Darryl falling over himself to appologise and now all the ranting and raving loonies on this site ,I am not a racist(shouldn't need to say but there I have) we all have a right to free speech in both the US and Australia ,this seems to be a very uneducated comeback ,it seems to me that if ou cannot think of anything else then pull out the old chestnut "Racist" card ,I am however a loyal Australian who loves their country and it's people for their differences and their sameness all in one ,my grandfather fought in the first World War for this right and I will not appoligise for it.
94
this is so stupid, i see how it may have offended some but what makes the whole world think they can call australia racist because of one joke gone wrong? we're one of the most multi cultural countries around, not to say theres no racism but compared to most countries we try to treat all as equals and make amends for our mistakes in the past. for years before michael jackson's death americans used him and his foever hanging skin colour as a comedic point in many movies and skits. that's what i call hypocritical. my sisters travelled the world and she said the most racist country she went to by far was... drum roll please... AMERICA. soo racist in fact they left there as soon as possible.racism like that just isn't common place in oz. so yanks and poms, get your head out of your backsides and stop bagging out a country you obviously know nothing about, after all aren't you really the creators of racism.
95
@67, AN Aboriginal man? Try HUNDREDS of Aboriginal men. Black deaths in police custody is a national scandal in Australia. I could also point to the excellent book "Tall Man: The Death of Doomadgee" by Chloe Hooper, the story of one such man and the trial of the white policeman who killed him.
One thing it's important to make clear is that we are not having a competition; racism in one country doesn't excuse it in another. It's not hypocritical for a white American, with our own racial issues, to point out a grotesque racial gaffe on the part of some Australians. Our treatment of our Indians doesn't let YOU off the hook.
It's also important to realize what we're saying. "You're racist" doesn't mean "you are shit" or "you are inferior to us" or "your country is a fucking toilet, mate". It means "look, brother, you've got an attitude problem here that I think you should look at. We're looking at ours, you know". Nothing gets people's backs up quite like an accusation of racism. But problems don't go away if you refuse to shine a light on them.
I'm not saying fuck you, I'm saying "you need to think about what this means. I genuinely love Australia in many ways. I've been there twice, and can't wait to go back. I've read literally a hundred books on Australia. My favorite band is Australian; hell, my favorite three or four. I wouldn't even bother getting into this if I thought you were beyond redemption. It's precisely because I value Australia that I want you to get ahold of your past, and your present attitudes.
But when you do stuff like this, it makes me wonder if you're ever going to get it.
One thing it's important to make clear is that we are not having a competition; racism in one country doesn't excuse it in another. It's not hypocritical for a white American, with our own racial issues, to point out a grotesque racial gaffe on the part of some Australians. Our treatment of our Indians doesn't let YOU off the hook.
It's also important to realize what we're saying. "You're racist" doesn't mean "you are shit" or "you are inferior to us" or "your country is a fucking toilet, mate". It means "look, brother, you've got an attitude problem here that I think you should look at. We're looking at ours, you know". Nothing gets people's backs up quite like an accusation of racism. But problems don't go away if you refuse to shine a light on them.
I'm not saying fuck you, I'm saying "you need to think about what this means. I genuinely love Australia in many ways. I've been there twice, and can't wait to go back. I've read literally a hundred books on Australia. My favorite band is Australian; hell, my favorite three or four. I wouldn't even bother getting into this if I thought you were beyond redemption. It's precisely because I value Australia that I want you to get ahold of your past, and your present attitudes.
But when you do stuff like this, it makes me wonder if you're ever going to get it.
96
Im an Australian Aborigine. Last nights "jackson jive" skit is indicitave of the way other cultures are treated by white australians in this country.This is just the tip of the iceberg.Aboriginal people are being subjected to undeclared war and attempted genocide!!! Overt,covert,institutional racism-denial of basic human rights etc...Go Harry,maybe the world will now see what Australia is REALLY like....White Australia has a Black History!!!
97
For what its worth, Australia has had and continues to have Political organisations with overt racist agenda's. Pauline Hansen was a stunning example of racist political manouvering.
However, Australians DID NOT VOTE THEM IN. In fact, Australians essentially didnt vote for them at all!
Surely this is far more telling than a skit created by some immigrant Aussies for a laugh on a deliberately unskilled "no-talent quest"!
However, Australians DID NOT VOTE THEM IN. In fact, Australians essentially didnt vote for them at all!
Surely this is far more telling than a skit created by some immigrant Aussies for a laugh on a deliberately unskilled "no-talent quest"!
98
GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT - they were indian and lebanese doctors. it was hardly racist.
we don't have your history here in australia...
we don't have your history here in australia...
99
No! NO!
Not all Australians are horribly rascist. My housemates and I, who watched and loved Hey Hey in our childhood, were completely gobsmacked with horror when we saw the painted blackfaces and afros walk onto the set. We were so glad when Connick Jr. gave them a zero and said that if that was shown in America there show would be taken off the air.
I cannot believe that they let something like that go to air.
Please do not generalise all Australians as ignorant, rascist, homophobic idiots.
There are rascists and ignoramii in every country everywhere unfortunately and it was an awful lack of foresight that lead the producers of Hey Hey to allow this disgustingskit to be put to air.
Not all Australians are horribly rascist. My housemates and I, who watched and loved Hey Hey in our childhood, were completely gobsmacked with horror when we saw the painted blackfaces and afros walk onto the set. We were so glad when Connick Jr. gave them a zero and said that if that was shown in America there show would be taken off the air.
I cannot believe that they let something like that go to air.
Please do not generalise all Australians as ignorant, rascist, homophobic idiots.
There are rascists and ignoramii in every country everywhere unfortunately and it was an awful lack of foresight that lead the producers of Hey Hey to allow this disgustingskit to be put to air.
100
I think the skit was stupid and racist. However, having spent time in the US I was pretty shocked by the racism there - quite a bit more racist than Australia in real terms. The difference is that in the US people hide racist feelings. They, like the UK, are incredibly politically correct, won't say anything in public even slightly racist, yet don't want to move into a neighbourhood with black people, or really have a lot to do with them. I went all over the US, and I saw it plain as day. Maybe not NYC or LA or Chicago, not so much at least, but it was everywhere else. See the recent backlash against Obama. I spoke to lots of Americans who didn't like that their president was black.
What Australia has to learn is that it is NOT ok to even make fun of race in a light hearted manner. It's something that still hasn't been understood yet. However, Americans have to understand we do not have your tortured racist history of slavery. You will immediately point to aboriginals, and yes, that is our shame. But that situation is almost exactly the same as your problem with native Americans. You are making a mistake comparing black Australians to black Americans. They are both black, but the whole back story is totally different. All the problems you have had with accepting native Americans, well, that is the situation here with aboriginals.
You also miss the point in another way. Aboriginals, numerically, are a very small part of the population and mostly live way out in the desert or small country towns, and most Australians live in the coastal cities. You rarely see an aboriginal unless you go looking. It's easy to ignore their problems. Not right, but easy. And also, there are not many black immigrants here - asians we've got in the millions, along with other races, but not many black people. My Detroit friend was here last year and she said ' you know, I feel like I'm being checked out here...is this racism". I told her 'no, there's just not many black people, so they are looking at you perfectly innocently because you're kind of exotic..if anything they think you're kind of cool'. She wasn't sure. The reason being is that she grew up in the US and has that whole US race thing going on in her mind. She gets stared at: "oh, it must be racism..I heard about these Austalians".
I'm not defending this skit or saying Australia doesn't have a way to go in race relations. But I take offence at preachy Americans getting all superior about race with ridiculous comments like 'Australia still hasn't dealt with race'. Well, we haven't dealt with race the same way as you have because we haven't had your problems. We haven't had half our population dragged over from Africa and made to work for the white man. Made to sit at the back of the bus and lynched. I can understand why African Americans are pissed, and why anything touching on race is a real sore point.
Our race problem is way different. We haven't dealt with our aboriginal problem...we stole their land, treated them like shit, and now basically ignore them, just wishing the government would sort out the problem - which they're tried to do for the last 20 years with varying levels of commitment, all without result. So our problem is different than your problem - got it? Think 'native Americans = aboriginals'.
25% of our population come from somewhere else. I walk out of my apartment and there are literally thousands of asians, middle eastern people, Indians, etc on the street, all doing ok, working, getting by, doing fine. Don't tell me we have a huge race problem. Some Indian students got attacked recently. That story is about where they live, not that they are Indian. If you live in the most dangerous part of the city - yeah, you will get mugged and probably racially abused. What people don't seem to be getting is that those attacks are not being done by white people, but OTHER races - maybe the odd white guy but generally other non-white immigrants.
I know this is a waste of time. Australia has been fingered as a really racist country and it has stuck. Past policy - yes, it was bad in the past - and the lingering problem with aboriginals, have made it easy to point and say "yeah, Australia is racist'. However, we have one of the largest immigrant communites in the developed world, and it will get bigger as Australia grows. We are getting comfortable with race. If maybe another 2 million or so black people come here then we'll get used to seeing black people like we have with asians, Indians, middle-eastern people, etc. We've got a few from Africa in pockets in different city suburbs, but not many. You don't see black people that often. But thats' not our friggin fault.
I saw racism everyday in the US - but what I didn't see was any old school racist stuff like the Jackson skit explained away as just a joke. Australia has to learn the same lesson. But please, don't talk to us like you are somehow speaking from a better place. You have race issues there that go way deeper than they do here. Our problem is with accepting aboriginals - at least a section of society has this problem. And there are sections of the community upset at the sheer amount of immigration - but a very small section. Most people are fine with it. We are dealing with our own race problems. But ours is a different story so judge it on its own terms, not your terms. Harry Connick sees a black face skit and thinks "oh my god, just like America in the lynching days, I have to speak up". He can see the sting in the skit because he's American and has had this black/white race thing banged into him since he was born. Here, the skit doesn't have the sting. It's wrong, of course, but it doesn't have the same, "oh my god" sting in the tail. Can you see what I'm getting at?
Yeah it's wrong; it's making fun of a race of people, like putting on a turban and and pretending to be Al Queda members (which I saw in the US a lot) but it's really really shocking to you because of your history. Go to Europe, you'll see the same thing. Casual racism exists, but the black and white thing is not as poisonous as it is the US. A lot of what you are shocked about American friends is your own past.
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What Australia has to learn is that it is NOT ok to even make fun of race in a light hearted manner. It's something that still hasn't been understood yet. However, Americans have to understand we do not have your tortured racist history of slavery. You will immediately point to aboriginals, and yes, that is our shame. But that situation is almost exactly the same as your problem with native Americans. You are making a mistake comparing black Australians to black Americans. They are both black, but the whole back story is totally different. All the problems you have had with accepting native Americans, well, that is the situation here with aboriginals.
You also miss the point in another way. Aboriginals, numerically, are a very small part of the population and mostly live way out in the desert or small country towns, and most Australians live in the coastal cities. You rarely see an aboriginal unless you go looking. It's easy to ignore their problems. Not right, but easy. And also, there are not many black immigrants here - asians we've got in the millions, along with other races, but not many black people. My Detroit friend was here last year and she said ' you know, I feel like I'm being checked out here...is this racism". I told her 'no, there's just not many black people, so they are looking at you perfectly innocently because you're kind of exotic..if anything they think you're kind of cool'. She wasn't sure. The reason being is that she grew up in the US and has that whole US race thing going on in her mind. She gets stared at: "oh, it must be racism..I heard about these Austalians".
I'm not defending this skit or saying Australia doesn't have a way to go in race relations. But I take offence at preachy Americans getting all superior about race with ridiculous comments like 'Australia still hasn't dealt with race'. Well, we haven't dealt with race the same way as you have because we haven't had your problems. We haven't had half our population dragged over from Africa and made to work for the white man. Made to sit at the back of the bus and lynched. I can understand why African Americans are pissed, and why anything touching on race is a real sore point.
Our race problem is way different. We haven't dealt with our aboriginal problem...we stole their land, treated them like shit, and now basically ignore them, just wishing the government would sort out the problem - which they're tried to do for the last 20 years with varying levels of commitment, all without result. So our problem is different than your problem - got it? Think 'native Americans = aboriginals'.
25% of our population come from somewhere else. I walk out of my apartment and there are literally thousands of asians, middle eastern people, Indians, etc on the street, all doing ok, working, getting by, doing fine. Don't tell me we have a huge race problem. Some Indian students got attacked recently. That story is about where they live, not that they are Indian. If you live in the most dangerous part of the city - yeah, you will get mugged and probably racially abused. What people don't seem to be getting is that those attacks are not being done by white people, but OTHER races - maybe the odd white guy but generally other non-white immigrants.
I know this is a waste of time. Australia has been fingered as a really racist country and it has stuck. Past policy - yes, it was bad in the past - and the lingering problem with aboriginals, have made it easy to point and say "yeah, Australia is racist'. However, we have one of the largest immigrant communites in the developed world, and it will get bigger as Australia grows. We are getting comfortable with race. If maybe another 2 million or so black people come here then we'll get used to seeing black people like we have with asians, Indians, middle-eastern people, etc. We've got a few from Africa in pockets in different city suburbs, but not many. You don't see black people that often. But thats' not our friggin fault.
I saw racism everyday in the US - but what I didn't see was any old school racist stuff like the Jackson skit explained away as just a joke. Australia has to learn the same lesson. But please, don't talk to us like you are somehow speaking from a better place. You have race issues there that go way deeper than they do here. Our problem is with accepting aboriginals - at least a section of society has this problem. And there are sections of the community upset at the sheer amount of immigration - but a very small section. Most people are fine with it. We are dealing with our own race problems. But ours is a different story so judge it on its own terms, not your terms. Harry Connick sees a black face skit and thinks "oh my god, just like America in the lynching days, I have to speak up". He can see the sting in the skit because he's American and has had this black/white race thing banged into him since he was born. Here, the skit doesn't have the sting. It's wrong, of course, but it doesn't have the same, "oh my god" sting in the tail. Can you see what I'm getting at?
Yeah it's wrong; it's making fun of a race of people, like putting on a turban and and pretending to be Al Queda members (which I saw in the US a lot) but it's really really shocking to you because of your history. Go to Europe, you'll see the same thing. Casual racism exists, but the black and white thing is not as poisonous as it is the US. A lot of what you are shocked about American friends is your own past.
101
Shazza...my grandfather also fought as an Aussie in the first World War, and I am offended that you would suggest he fought for racism. I have always been taught that racists are idiots, and when I became old enough, I was smart enough to conclude that for myself.
To suggest our grandparents fought for racism is both offensive and disgusting.
To the other posters here...as you can see racism issues deeply divide many people in Australia. It is very sad, because other than the racism, it truly is a fantastic country.
To suggest our grandparents fought for racism is both offensive and disgusting.
To the other posters here...as you can see racism issues deeply divide many people in Australia. It is very sad, because other than the racism, it truly is a fantastic country.
102
Robert Downey Jr is white. He played a white guy who dressed up as a black guy. He's American, but was parodying an Australian. American making fun of a black Australian = Oscar Nomination. Australian making fun of a black American = "Everyone in Australia is racist!!!!!!". ... I don't get it.
When this skit came on TV I didnt find it funny - I rolled my eyes because I knew that this crap would be going on the next day. Please find some -NEWS- to talk about, not this shit.
When this skit came on TV I didnt find it funny - I rolled my eyes because I knew that this crap would be going on the next day. Please find some -NEWS- to talk about, not this shit.
103
For people to tie this skit to the terrible situation that Aboriginal Australia is currently in is absolutely ignorant. There are MANY issues that contribute to this problem and it can't just be fixed by accepting them as "equal" or any ideological bullshit. We need REAL solutions to fix it. Please, if I see another stereotypically arrogant American on here trying to bring up Aboriginal segregation and trying to enforce their ideas and tell us how to fix this problem (well geeshucks, just take off the minstrels, you racists!) I think I'm going to tear my hair out.
104
86,were not trying to sound like saints, we're just sick of narrow minded ignorance which you clearly posess. we are no worse then others but i don't see how you can even try to call me homphobic or racist when two of my best friends are homosexual mauis. australia is DEFFINATELY no worse then other countries with race. yes it was a lame joke but everyone get over yourself and find something else to bag out. it seems to be the only thing you neanderthals are any good at.
105
@61 and anyone else talking about Robert Downey jr. in Tropic Thunder:
First and foremost, Robert Downey Jr. was making fun of method actors going to extreme lengths to immerse themselves in a role. Secondly, because it was a movie within a movie, RDjr was playing a fictonal actor in blackface, rather then playing blackface himself. It's a seemingly thin distinction, but it makes all the difference in the world when you realize he's acting out how his character (who is pretty dense) believes black people to behave. The distinction is further solidified with an actual black actor, who serves to constantly remind the audience how ridiculous the this blackface portrayal is.
A similar situation arose on Arrested Development with Gob and his black hand puppet Franklin- taken literally, it's a pretty racist interpretation of black culture, but you're not laughing at the black stereotype, you're laughing at the idiot (Gob) who thinks it's appropriate to show off such a thing in public.
Does that make sense?
First and foremost, Robert Downey Jr. was making fun of method actors going to extreme lengths to immerse themselves in a role. Secondly, because it was a movie within a movie, RDjr was playing a fictonal actor in blackface, rather then playing blackface himself. It's a seemingly thin distinction, but it makes all the difference in the world when you realize he's acting out how his character (who is pretty dense) believes black people to behave. The distinction is further solidified with an actual black actor, who serves to constantly remind the audience how ridiculous the this blackface portrayal is.
A similar situation arose on Arrested Development with Gob and his black hand puppet Franklin- taken literally, it's a pretty racist interpretation of black culture, but you're not laughing at the black stereotype, you're laughing at the idiot (Gob) who thinks it's appropriate to show off such a thing in public.
Does that make sense?
106
Why does everyone keep blaming the whole bloody country, well more to the point - all the "white australians." This in itself is racist, stereotyping one whole race into the same category of behaviour. I agree the skit was foul, but it's not every white persons fault. Think about it.
107
Hmm I feel the American reaction to this is yet another attempt to control what the world thinks, believes and does. But that view would be as ignorant as you American's calling my country racist. We are not racist. Unlike America we do not share the same past, so cultural sensitivity differs. I think America is a great country, in fact the second greatest country after my own. We never enslaved black's or any other race. We have never abandoned a predominately black population in a terrible natural disaster (New Orleans). We wouldn't have death threats directed toward the leader of our country because of the colour of that person’s skin. So I'll put it as Australian as it can get, "Have a look in your own backyard before you criticize someone else's".
108
what is the difference between this act and other similiar things that has been done in the past 10 years? For example: Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder; wayan brothers in white chicks; Borat and Eddie Murphy in Nutty Professor and Norbit (he was making fun of overweight people. There wasn't anyone calling out Racism or Discrimination
109
Hmm I feel the American reaction to this is yet another attempt to control what the world thinks, believes and does. But that view would be as ignorant as you American's calling my country racist. We are not racist. Unlike America we do not share the same past, so cultural sensitivity differs. I think America is a great country, in fact the second greatest country after my own. We never enslaved black's or any other race. We have never abandoned a predominately black population in a terrible natural disaster (New Orleans). We wouldn't have death threats directed toward the leader of our country because of the colour of that person’s skin. So I'll put it as Australian as it can get, "Have a look in your own backyard before you criticize someone else's".
110
AUGreg...arguably, the reason Hanson wasn't voted in, is because when John Howard and the others saw that racist policies would get them votes, they took up a few racist policies themselves (hello Naru and allowing refugee boats to sink and people to die and lying to the public about the "children overboard"). Not to mention Howard's refusal to apologise to the Stolen Generation.
Thankfully Rudd finally did that and I was hoping our country was heading in the right direction.
I can understand us making a mistake and broadcasting something terribly offensive, what I don't understand is why Aussies are defending it and how they don't realise how bad, ignorant and stupid they look, and how they give the rest of us Aussies a bad name.
Thankfully Rudd finally did that and I was hoping our country was heading in the right direction.
I can understand us making a mistake and broadcasting something terribly offensive, what I don't understand is why Aussies are defending it and how they don't realise how bad, ignorant and stupid they look, and how they give the rest of us Aussies a bad name.
111
I should also point out for the sake of the Americans here, that this country is not just a white homogeneous lump with a couple of Aboriginals out in the desert. Go to Melbourne, then we'll talk.
112
Fnarf....I hope you were here long enough and met enough nice people that you now that we are not all like that. Many of us feel the same way you do about it and are saddened and appalled to see our fellow Aussies defend racism and pretend it's something else.
113
@105 so...if you explain it well enough, people dont see it as racist? It's the same thing; white person, dressing up as black person for entertainment. "It's a movie within a movie". No it's not. it's a movie. I know hey were making fun of "method actors", but he is still white and he still dressed up as a black person. again;
American making fun of a black Australian = Oscar Nomination. Australian making fun of a black American = "Everyone in Australia is racist!!!!!!"
Now, I'm not calling Americans hypocrites but...... well, maybe I am.
Also, the world knows about groups like the KKK, but we dont view American people as racist because of those groups, or the fact that US allow groups like that to form and run...
American making fun of a black Australian = Oscar Nomination. Australian making fun of a black American = "Everyone in Australia is racist!!!!!!"
Now, I'm not calling Americans hypocrites but...... well, maybe I am.
Also, the world knows about groups like the KKK, but we dont view American people as racist because of those groups, or the fact that US allow groups like that to form and run...
114
Holding on to stuff from the past is unhealthy and causes cancer. I'm not saying the past isn't important but lets all acknowledge it, take a deep breath, let it go, and move forward.
(Man, I hate humans...you wouldn't get this crap from any other species).
(Man, I hate humans...you wouldn't get this crap from any other species).
115
@ashamed, stop apologising for your country to the Yanks, we've enough people in government bending over backwards for them =P
Not to take Shazza's side, but you clearly misinterpreted what he/she said.
"I am not a racist(shouldn't need to say but there I have) we all have a right to free speech"
"I am however a loyal Australian who loves their country and it's people for their differences and their sameness all in one"
Which part of that even vaguely suggests that the Aussie soldiers "fought for racism"?
Even the arguments I don't agree with on here are conveying viewpoints and offering supporting reasons. You're just pulling reasons to be offended out of your ass.
Not to take Shazza's side, but you clearly misinterpreted what he/she said.
"I am not a racist(shouldn't need to say but there I have) we all have a right to free speech"
"I am however a loyal Australian who loves their country and it's people for their differences and their sameness all in one"
Which part of that even vaguely suggests that the Aussie soldiers "fought for racism"?
Even the arguments I don't agree with on here are conveying viewpoints and offering supporting reasons. You're just pulling reasons to be offended out of your ass.
117
96,orcourse austrlaia has a black history, i think every aussie knows that, we were taught all about our shameful past and the mistakes our ancestors made all through school. aborigines are the true australians and i will always know and respect that. the fact of the matter is our whole country is being verbally battered and looked down upon for one stupid joke gone wrong. everyone has a different sence of humour and as that clearly wasn't meant to be seen as racist, i appologise to any one it offended. but honestly the people who are bagging out our amazing country no nothing about the incident besides little clips they saw on the news. HOW ABOUT WE TAKE ALL THIS ENERGY AND JUDGEMENT AND FOCUS IT ON DOING SOMETHING FOR THE GOOD, charity the environment something usefull! the world already has enough issues and divided opinions without bloggers creating more.
120
@118 Sweet - Americans are now stereotyped internationally as judgemental hypocrites who talk about freedom of speech until any other country tries to speak freely.
121
@96 I feel your remarks are totally incorrect. Here are a few benefits that Australian Aboriginal's receive to assist them in life that the rest of the population don't. ABSTUDY. Millions of dollars injected into your communities to try to improve aboriginal life. I've seen the drug and alcohol abuse first hand, the government and taxes payers money attempting to correct the problems. This is not racist. In fact I believe it's the opposite. I admit there are white racists, but there are just as many black racists. Game, set, match. End of discussion.
122
Most people here are just idiots. how can you say australia is racist for broadcasting a jackson 5 imitation group? why the hell should we go by what americans belive? america has a way worse racist history then australia. slavery, klu klux klan, anti blacks anti semitism, so why are we getting bullshitted about all this, when it was intended as light humor, as no more then a jackson 5 tribute. stupid harry was the reason people got pissed. how is it different form people portraying steotypical australians on TV in america? we arent racist, we are one of th emost equal countries in the world today. sure there have been some issues but what country hasnt had them?
and why is america so intent on focusing on one australian TV show made and broadcasted in australia instead of fixing all the crummy problems in america. stupid lawsuits and mockery of justice, all the crime and homeless people on the streets. sure there is the issue of the lost generation but it has been fixed as much as possible. and dont go on about how we still did it and it doesnt matter because that would be the biggest hypocriticle statement you ould possibly say. we dont have to live by your rules, you are one country and dont rule the world. get over yourselves and if you dont like it piss off
and why is america so intent on focusing on one australian TV show made and broadcasted in australia instead of fixing all the crummy problems in america. stupid lawsuits and mockery of justice, all the crime and homeless people on the streets. sure there is the issue of the lost generation but it has been fixed as much as possible. and dont go on about how we still did it and it doesnt matter because that would be the biggest hypocriticle statement you ould possibly say. we dont have to live by your rules, you are one country and dont rule the world. get over yourselves and if you dont like it piss off
123
David, you certainly did a good job of ignoring the Youtube comments from Australians condemning the performance.
Or maybe you simply assumed that anyone who condemned the performance couldn't possibly be Australian - you know, because Australians are all racist. Everyone knows that!
Or maybe you simply assumed that anyone who condemned the performance couldn't possibly be Australian - you know, because Australians are all racist. Everyone knows that!
125
it's ok for dave chappelle to impersonate a white man doing the news (don't get me wrong, it's hilarious), and it's perfectly acceptable for chris rock to have a go at white people - but when the roles are reversed...OMG americans think it's the end of the world!!!
126
118 - not fair at all. There are a few Aussies here, and many on forums elsewhere today, spending their time this morning, publicly apologising for this act and expressing our shame.
127
I would just like to point out....as I feel that this point may have been lost in the middle of this argument....
In saying that "Australians are racist, etc".......isn't this a racist comment in itself???
You are making a generalisation about 24 million people as a whole...with no regard for the varying degrees of education, ethics, morals, cultures and beliefs....choosing to label the whole country as "racist".
Sure there are racist elements....but there are everywhere. Show me a country that doesn't and I will be very surprised.
But please....don't label the majority with a tag because of the idiocy of the minority.
In saying that "Australians are racist, etc".......isn't this a racist comment in itself???
You are making a generalisation about 24 million people as a whole...with no regard for the varying degrees of education, ethics, morals, cultures and beliefs....choosing to label the whole country as "racist".
Sure there are racist elements....but there are everywhere. Show me a country that doesn't and I will be very surprised.
But please....don't label the majority with a tag because of the idiocy of the minority.
128
@93 and 106, you're a couple of ignorant morons. I'm for free speech and all, but I do wish you both would shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing all of us.
@95, save your breath to cool your porridge - they're never going to get it, and I'm officially depressed...
@95, save your breath to cool your porridge - they're never going to get it, and I'm officially depressed...
129
being a migrant who has lived in aus since i was 6 years old, racism in this country is rampant and ingrained. I remember being pushed off the footpath as a child by "Australians" mainly of English Irish Scottish stock who view me as an "almost white". coming from the Netherlands and having "white" white skin and tracing my ancestry to 500 years in the same villages on both sides of the family, to be called black was really intriguing. Australia is still committing genocide against the aboriginal people and if the skit were done dressed as aborigines they would cause a stir here with that. Australians hide their bigotry and present it as humour. Whenever i disagree with Australians about say politics or lifestyle the first response is to remind me I am not "one of them" and to go back to where i came form if I don't like it (the racism etc ). Australians are taught at school to put themselves above all and that they are in the lucky country and all others are inferior to Aussies. That is why they seem to lack any sensitivity to black-face or another racial insult.. Racist jokes about Aboriginals are one of the most common jokes told in aus.
131
@128 they have a good point
america is all for free speech to the point where klu klux klan can hold rallies wherever the fuck they want because they have the right to free speech
so why the hell cant we express free speech? this isnt racist this is a bit of light hearted humor
america is all for free speech to the point where klu klux klan can hold rallies wherever the fuck they want because they have the right to free speech
so why the hell cant we express free speech? this isnt racist this is a bit of light hearted humor
132
Ok I'm bored now. Everyone is just repeating the same stuff over and over again. I'm so bored I could vomit! (Oh wait, should I say that or is that offensive to bulimics)?
133
The fact that so many people are condemning Australia is strange, considering that most of them have never been here. Now, if I say 'the word racism is thrown around too often', I'd probably be condemned as racist because most people doesn't know what real racism means. Real racism means hate. Destructive hatred. The fact is, some cultures are so politically sensitive that it can overuse the term and thus create confusion to what it means. And a lot of people are quick to judge a whole group by the sins and mistakes of a few.
I am NOT defending what happened, and there is a difference between defending something and understanding it, and its not fair to condemn an entire population for the workings of a few ignorant fools. I am not racist, my family aren't racists. My friends aren't racists, not that I know of at least. Ignorance of other cultures, and a lack of sufficient education, is probably a real reason why these differences and misunderstandings exist. I am a Christian, I work actively in my church AGAINST such perceptions in my community. I also participate in social justice activities with my university. But because I'm Australian, according to the logic of some, that automatically makes me racist.
Does Australia have a problem with race? Of course. A huge problem. So does America and many other countries. Does it make us all racists? No. I don't like being painted with the same brush as those who created that skit. I found it to be very offensive, and definitely see why people are offended by it.
But please, to those who condemn all Australians, get off your High Horse. It's not fair, and in fact it is ignorant, to accuse us all of being racists, just as it'd be totally unfair to say that all Americans are racists, or that all French people are racists (Sorry, don't mean to point fingers at any particular population, I'm just trying to make a point. Racism, at varying degrees, exists everywhere).
I defend Australia, not the racism. I defend those Australians who, like the rest of the world, did not find any humour in the skit. I certainly didin't. I defend those Australians who do not deserve to be accused of being racists just because they are apart of the population.
Racism is a global issue. Australia is a long way from overcoming it, and probably never will since there are problems with how the Aboriginal community is treated. I know for sure that its not an equal system, and it's not something that I am proud of as an Australia, but I, along with millions of Australians, have only been given blame for being white, but not offerings of solutions. The blame-game is easy to get involved in. But do any of you, who accuse all Australians of being racists, have any solutions? For your own country or ours? If not: Stay quiet. Keep your hateful, ignorant accusations to yourself.
But WE OF ALL NATIONS AND CULTURES must stop making generalised accusations, assigning blame to those who have not done anything wrong. Otherwise, double standards become the norm and there will never be an opportunity for cultures and nations to overcome such issues on a global level.
That said, I think whoever created and greenlighted that skit needs to be named and shamed. The insensitivity of that skit was damn painful to watch, and I couldn't watch it all the way through. Maybe this, and in the wake of the world's outcry, will help give the issue a real kick-start and make our politicians and communities address it on a national level. That'd be a great start towards improving race relations. For Australia, how white Australia and Aboriginal Australia view each other has always been with caution and hostility; a separation always existing. Maybe instead of giving all white Australians the blame, or treating all Aboriginal Australians as different and less important to our society, this country needs to FIND SOLUTIONS.
What kinds of solutions? I don't know. But we all know there are problems with race here. Its just most of us have never been given any education or solutions to help solve it. Its hard to improve relations if we're not educated to how we can go about doing it. That is the same for many countries.
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I am NOT defending what happened, and there is a difference between defending something and understanding it, and its not fair to condemn an entire population for the workings of a few ignorant fools. I am not racist, my family aren't racists. My friends aren't racists, not that I know of at least. Ignorance of other cultures, and a lack of sufficient education, is probably a real reason why these differences and misunderstandings exist. I am a Christian, I work actively in my church AGAINST such perceptions in my community. I also participate in social justice activities with my university. But because I'm Australian, according to the logic of some, that automatically makes me racist.
Does Australia have a problem with race? Of course. A huge problem. So does America and many other countries. Does it make us all racists? No. I don't like being painted with the same brush as those who created that skit. I found it to be very offensive, and definitely see why people are offended by it.
But please, to those who condemn all Australians, get off your High Horse. It's not fair, and in fact it is ignorant, to accuse us all of being racists, just as it'd be totally unfair to say that all Americans are racists, or that all French people are racists (Sorry, don't mean to point fingers at any particular population, I'm just trying to make a point. Racism, at varying degrees, exists everywhere).
I defend Australia, not the racism. I defend those Australians who, like the rest of the world, did not find any humour in the skit. I certainly didin't. I defend those Australians who do not deserve to be accused of being racists just because they are apart of the population.
Racism is a global issue. Australia is a long way from overcoming it, and probably never will since there are problems with how the Aboriginal community is treated. I know for sure that its not an equal system, and it's not something that I am proud of as an Australia, but I, along with millions of Australians, have only been given blame for being white, but not offerings of solutions. The blame-game is easy to get involved in. But do any of you, who accuse all Australians of being racists, have any solutions? For your own country or ours? If not: Stay quiet. Keep your hateful, ignorant accusations to yourself.
But WE OF ALL NATIONS AND CULTURES must stop making generalised accusations, assigning blame to those who have not done anything wrong. Otherwise, double standards become the norm and there will never be an opportunity for cultures and nations to overcome such issues on a global level.
That said, I think whoever created and greenlighted that skit needs to be named and shamed. The insensitivity of that skit was damn painful to watch, and I couldn't watch it all the way through. Maybe this, and in the wake of the world's outcry, will help give the issue a real kick-start and make our politicians and communities address it on a national level. That'd be a great start towards improving race relations. For Australia, how white Australia and Aboriginal Australia view each other has always been with caution and hostility; a separation always existing. Maybe instead of giving all white Australians the blame, or treating all Aboriginal Australians as different and less important to our society, this country needs to FIND SOLUTIONS.
What kinds of solutions? I don't know. But we all know there are problems with race here. Its just most of us have never been given any education or solutions to help solve it. Its hard to improve relations if we're not educated to how we can go about doing it. That is the same for many countries.
134
@129 how is that worse then america, where klu klux klan constantely provokes hatred of minorities? how is tht an indication of australia today? america was way more racist in its day, and no country has gone without troubles.
this is no where near as bad as america was, so why makes such a big deal americans, its just hypocritical
this is no where near as bad as america was, so why makes such a big deal americans, its just hypocritical
135
I'm a bit suprised that the kid on Red Faces from the week before didn't cop a pounding for spreading vegemite all over his body.....Same, same but different ?
136
@129 - Australia is not 'still committing genocide' - that is a blatant lie. The idea of being taught to put yourself above other? Where the hell does that come from? You can generalise and say that Australians are ignorant racists as much as you like, but don't use lies to justify that opinion.
137
@129 - Look, I live in Sydney - born and raised in Australia and just recently moved to Sydney and I'm sorry, but NO ONE has the right to state that Australia is a racist country. We are more multi-cultural than ANY country in the world. You walk down the street in Sydney CBD and there are 5 "internationally born people" for every 1 Australian. We have enclaves of Indians, Greek, etc. all over the country. Hell, I went to the movies the other day, and there was not ONE English speaking movie playing! How dare anyone suggest that ALL AUSTRALIANS are racist. We simply dont care enough to be racist. We are more outraged by people who believe their own crap. Kids pushed you off a footpath? Kids used to kick me. Kids used to yell insults. Kids used to laugh. Kids ARE KIDS.
138
Bah look at all this hysteria. I'm Australian, I'm not a racist.....the skit was probably in poor taste but to suggest that it is representative of an entire nation's institutionalised racism is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Every nation has elements of its own history that they probably are not proud of. Let's not start this moral grandstanding bullshit which pretty much boils down to a "my country is less racist than your's" argument.
For the people throwing around arguments that Australia is a racist country because of the "Lost Generation" I suggest you do some research because you're not half as smart as you think you are.
Every nation has elements of its own history that they probably are not proud of. Let's not start this moral grandstanding bullshit which pretty much boils down to a "my country is less racist than your's" argument.
For the people throwing around arguments that Australia is a racist country because of the "Lost Generation" I suggest you do some research because you're not half as smart as you think you are.
139
@131, having free speech means being able to say something, but it doesn't make you beyond criticism. It means that the KKK can exist, but it certainly does not endorse them. Just as Americans are not denying the right of the people in the skit to perform, but they are criticising the content of the performance. Free speech is irrelevant to this discussion.
140
I would just like to point out....as I feel that this point may have been lost in the middle of this argument....
In saying that "Australians are racist, etc".......isn't this a racist comment in itself???
You are making a generalisation about 24 million people as a whole...with no regard for the varying degrees of education, ethics, morals, cultures and beliefs....choosing to label the whole country as "racist".
Sure there are racist elements....but there are everywhere. Show me a country that doesn't and I will be very surprised.
But please....don't label the majority with a tag because of the idiocy of the minority.
In saying that "Australians are racist, etc".......isn't this a racist comment in itself???
You are making a generalisation about 24 million people as a whole...with no regard for the varying degrees of education, ethics, morals, cultures and beliefs....choosing to label the whole country as "racist".
Sure there are racist elements....but there are everywhere. Show me a country that doesn't and I will be very surprised.
But please....don't label the majority with a tag because of the idiocy of the minority.
141
@139 I agree. People have the right to fart publicly as well, but it doesn't mean that others will appreciate it. Australia has farted (yet again).
144
I find it amusing that when people reference Tropic Thunder its for RDJ playing an african american, not the fact that he plays the stereo typical #105 "dense" australian. But he's playing 1 person. Thats the thing, an opinion is 1 person's view, not a whole countries. Every country has its racism, playing your racism is worse than ours is redundant.
145
@ 140, that's more an example of chauvanism than it is racism, being as it's against a nationality and not a race.
146
@141 - that's not the point. Australia is not racist because a few people did a tasteless J5 skit. I don't like the "Australia has farted" idea for that very reason. Just like I don't assume all Americans are morons because some of them get Australia and Tasmania confused with North and South Korea.
147
We as Australians can do comedy skits such as this and feel no remorse as "we as a nation" are very multicultural, laid back and accepting of not only "skin colour" but also different cultural "sense of humours".
It is nothing here for a bunch of friends who are of different races to call each other pet names in jest that would deeply offend in other countries, particularly Amercia. I myself, who grew up with only one other "white" child in my large group of VERY MULTICULTURAL (islanders, asians, kiwi's etc...) friends, was always called skippy cause that what people of other races call white Australians here.
Also having some Itallian heritage my partner calls me his little wog....this is done in a loving way.
I also have to add that my late husband was Aboriginal and we have 3 beautiful, intelligent and well raised children who have the pleasure of being surrounded by a very loving multicultural extended family.
I'm feeling that the diffrence is, as Australians, we were raised to jest each other in a loving way, yet, in America painting faces, wearing wigs, pet names etc.... is ALWAYS done malisously and with harmful intent....if this is not true then why is their back up?
Are they really mad at us or are they ashamed that one of their "own" African Americans was so publicly and obviously ashamed of his own skin that he went to great extremes to become white, and this was pointed at during the skit? And the fact that Micheal recently deceased means that they were all his "best friends" and loved him sooooooooo much....even the ones that bagged on him about being a child molester. (Take note this is not pointed at Micheal but Americans in general).
I feel that people of other cultures/countries have the wrong impression of our attitude towards other races. They dont get how much we really just don't care who's from where, because, they are all so uptight, worrying so hard that the wrong thing may be said or done.
To a country as high strung as America our casual attitude towards these issues would seem barbaric.....yet to me barbaric is the constant struggle for power and money over other cultures that America seems to desire.
And my final words to all the yanks....HARDEN THE FUCK UP PRINCESS!
P.S... please forgive any spelling errors as you are aware I am Australian and therefore I must be drunk!
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It is nothing here for a bunch of friends who are of different races to call each other pet names in jest that would deeply offend in other countries, particularly Amercia. I myself, who grew up with only one other "white" child in my large group of VERY MULTICULTURAL (islanders, asians, kiwi's etc...) friends, was always called skippy cause that what people of other races call white Australians here.
Also having some Itallian heritage my partner calls me his little wog....this is done in a loving way.
I also have to add that my late husband was Aboriginal and we have 3 beautiful, intelligent and well raised children who have the pleasure of being surrounded by a very loving multicultural extended family.
I'm feeling that the diffrence is, as Australians, we were raised to jest each other in a loving way, yet, in America painting faces, wearing wigs, pet names etc.... is ALWAYS done malisously and with harmful intent....if this is not true then why is their back up?
Are they really mad at us or are they ashamed that one of their "own" African Americans was so publicly and obviously ashamed of his own skin that he went to great extremes to become white, and this was pointed at during the skit? And the fact that Micheal recently deceased means that they were all his "best friends" and loved him sooooooooo much....even the ones that bagged on him about being a child molester. (Take note this is not pointed at Micheal but Americans in general).
I feel that people of other cultures/countries have the wrong impression of our attitude towards other races. They dont get how much we really just don't care who's from where, because, they are all so uptight, worrying so hard that the wrong thing may be said or done.
To a country as high strung as America our casual attitude towards these issues would seem barbaric.....yet to me barbaric is the constant struggle for power and money over other cultures that America seems to desire.
And my final words to all the yanks....HARDEN THE FUCK UP PRINCESS!
P.S... please forgive any spelling errors as you are aware I am Australian and therefore I must be drunk!
148
just to put this in perspective. I am an Australian and recently returned from a Carnival Splendor cruise to Mexico. Onboard one night was Comedian Tom McGillen who most Amercians would be familiar with. He does his little skits which include the Out-Back Aussie and his Godzilla Movie Spoofs. I found his humor outrageously funny even when portraying the Out-Back Aussie. That said his Godzilla Movie Spoof did not go down well with the Japanese that were in the audience.
Now my question to those is - Was that Racism???? He turns around puts in his funny teeth and puts on the hat to given the apearance as being Asian.
Now my question to those is - Was that Racism???? He turns around puts in his funny teeth and puts on the hat to given the apearance as being Asian.
149
To Comment 78
"And before you have a go at our treatment of Aborigines, Australian Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders enjoy welfare benefits and other services FAR above those available to any other Australian citizens".
My God, this is such a load of bull! Indigenous Australians DO NOT enjoy welfare benefits far above other citizens. Indigenous Australians have the same entitlements to welfare benefits as other Australians in all services. In fact, a publication has been released addressing this. It's called, "Rebutting the Myths" and can be accessed here - http://www.acra.org.au/culture/rebutting…
"And before you have a go at our treatment of Aborigines, Australian Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders enjoy welfare benefits and other services FAR above those available to any other Australian citizens".
My God, this is such a load of bull! Indigenous Australians DO NOT enjoy welfare benefits far above other citizens. Indigenous Australians have the same entitlements to welfare benefits as other Australians in all services. In fact, a publication has been released addressing this. It's called, "Rebutting the Myths" and can be accessed here - http://www.acra.org.au/culture/rebutting…
150
I am Australian born, racism is a major problem for me and always has been. Most of Australia is "white" and to them as an Irish & Italian(heritage) with dark skin I have been singled out and made fun of on many occasions which has led to many fights, and many beatings which luckily I have always won ;) I don't ever provoke it, in Australia it seems to be part of their culture. I don't feel comfortable or even a part of this country and never have. I went to rough high schools and I have fought for people of different ethnicity, including Aboriginal and close friends who are of Chinese heritage etc. During a road trip a couple of years ago, I visit maybe 8 cities most of which I was victimized by dirty drunk racists. When they degrade another race, it is not even an attempt at fun, it is very hostile and hate driven. Australian culture? You Aussies have no idea what its like to be on the receiving end of your hateful ways, so don't plead ignorance and suggest its not meant to be racist. You are not subjected to your recurring racial slurs. You are not segregated for looking different, even though fortunately for me I am much better looking than all of you. I am embarrassed to be associated with such ugly people.
151
@144 Read my comment @105 again. Not once do I state he's playing "a stereotypical dense Australian". I said he's playing a method actor, who happens to be dense. In fact, not once did I even mention that his character is Australian, because in the movie it's never relevant beyond the obvious attempt to poke fun at Russell Crowe.
152
cont from 147...... I forgot to add that my mother in-law is one of the "stolen generation" who was removed from her family and taken to a christian mission. While I am ashamed of and deeply sorry for what my fellow europeans did to her, I do not take responsibilty, and she does not wish my generation to take this burden, but she also does not appreciate people from other countries commenting on something they are ignorant to, in her words "they have no right to even mention the stolen generation, how dare they use "our plight" for their self rightous downgrading opinion of others". I agree!
153
"Australians: Post-Race Miracle Humans or Racist Idiots?" Wow, that's savage - and really unfair! Australia has its share of racial issues, but the vast majority of us are NOT racist. Most of us absolutely DO NOT harbour ill-will towards "blacks" or anyone else! (David from Melbourne, Australia)
154
Let me say as an Australian that I was incredibly uncomfortable when that skit was aired last night. I thought Harry Connick Jr was quite restrained in his comments - I would have had some harsher things to say in his position. I couldn't believe that had gone to air, especially on what is a family entertainment show.
Having said that, the comments here generalising all Australians as racist, descended from convicts, etc. are equally offensive and ignorant in the extreme. The US still has the KKK and the likes of Prussian Blue, but we don't make the assumption that all Americans are red-necked white supremacists. This case was offensive and stupid and should never have gone to air, but it doesn't characterise all Australians any more than the existence of the Westboro Baptist Church means that all Americans are fanatical homophobes.
Having said that, the comments here generalising all Australians as racist, descended from convicts, etc. are equally offensive and ignorant in the extreme. The US still has the KKK and the likes of Prussian Blue, but we don't make the assumption that all Americans are red-necked white supremacists. This case was offensive and stupid and should never have gone to air, but it doesn't characterise all Australians any more than the existence of the Westboro Baptist Church means that all Americans are fanatical homophobes.
155
@121...How can you suggest that aboriginal people are given special treatment.We wouldnt need government funding if whites (and all other immigrants) PAID THE F***ING RENT for land that has been illegally occupied. GAME OVER SUCK
156
If this skit had been a send up of the Osmonds, would it rate a mention - NO, would it affend anyone -Probably not. So if you would not be affended by a Osmond sketch why should anyone be affended by this sketch. As with every movie we see, we just had the performers dressed up in character. The only thing i found offensive is that the overseas commentators calling it the Blackface skit and not a tribute to M.J. Us Aussies not matter what our original nationality is, can still have a laugh
157
God you bloody yanks are a bunch of cocks !!! , the country that gave us slavery is going to tell the rest of the world that a comedy dance routine showing some doctors in blackface is racist .... i don't think so ! Step back and take a look at your own stuffed up country and race relations first . Australian and Proud of it !!!
158
Oh my God......(but maybe i shouldn't say that, someone might get offended). The funny thing is, is that this blog has become a hell of lot funnier than the skit being discussed. I laughed all the way thru at the stupid comments made by the "we're so right and our country is the best yanks", to the "i'm sorry, let me kiss your ass aussies". I thought the skit 20 years ago was funny, thought the same last night. Bike Boy sucked though, but hey, i'm rascist and believe bikes should not be allowed in Australia, let alone on National Tv. I laughed especially hard at some joker who said that we still have bars where there are white only sections....pmsl...your kiddin yourself mate. My past is 80,000 years long, that means i'm of Abo, Koori, Murray, or as you say, Nigger, ....yes, dare i say it, ....should i...??? BLACK descent. It was a skit you dicks, and shame on all of you who have taken offence. The only reason this blog exists is due to you Americans, ie Conick and Schmader, who are insecure with there own racial feelings and the utter shamefull way your country has handled in the past, and the present, your treatment of the African American, the American Indian, and the Mexican. Learn to laugh. And leave your own insecurities where they belong.....over there! To the Aussies apoligizing, you should recognize this saying "SHAME SHAME SHAME"
159
I cannot believe this skit has started so much controversy. Especially from a man (Connick Jr) who appeared on mad tv in a slight black face impersonating a black american preacher.
If this group had of 'whitened up' (the performers were dark skinned) and taken off Take That, New Kids on The Block or some other white boy band than nothing would have been said yet the same principle applies. I also find it quite amusing when bloggers on this site can call Australians racist when America still has the largest and most active Klu Klux Klan membership in the world. For the record I am Australian.
If this group had of 'whitened up' (the performers were dark skinned) and taken off Take That, New Kids on The Block or some other white boy band than nothing would have been said yet the same principle applies. I also find it quite amusing when bloggers on this site can call Australians racist when America still has the largest and most active Klu Klux Klan membership in the world. For the record I am Australian.
160
Could an American please point out to me exactly what was racist about this skit?
Fact #1: It was sending up the Jackson 5
Fact #2: The Jackson 5 are african-americans and therefore have dark skin
Fact #3: Michael Jackson has white skin
Fact #4: All they did was dance and sing, there were no racial comments or abuse of any kind
Fact #5: It was performed in Australia for Australian TV
I am racking my brain trying to work out how it could possibly have been construed as racist? Perhaps Mr. Connick should show a little more respect to the culture of the country he is visiting... I'm sure he would accept the laws and traditions and culture of say, a middle eastern country should he visit there... why not try and learn a little about Aussie culture while he's here instead of dismiss it as racism?
Fact #1: It was sending up the Jackson 5
Fact #2: The Jackson 5 are african-americans and therefore have dark skin
Fact #3: Michael Jackson has white skin
Fact #4: All they did was dance and sing, there were no racial comments or abuse of any kind
Fact #5: It was performed in Australia for Australian TV
I am racking my brain trying to work out how it could possibly have been construed as racist? Perhaps Mr. Connick should show a little more respect to the culture of the country he is visiting... I'm sure he would accept the laws and traditions and culture of say, a middle eastern country should he visit there... why not try and learn a little about Aussie culture while he's here instead of dismiss it as racism?
161
hey i'm aussie, i'm not going to apologize for the skit but i will apologize for this horrendous show, it was crap 20 yrs ago and nothing has changed. but i do agree australia is a racsist country.......but no more so than america.
162
I am an Aussie and can't belueve the stupidity and arrogance of americans to think that an event that aired on Australian television hadany planned impact on them. When the act was prepared, those participating in it had no way of knowing who would be the judge, and as a matter of fact, the same six people had done the same act on the same show years earlier.
Before anybody complains about the act being racist, understand this. FIVE OUT OF THE SIX ACTORS ARE OF ETHNIC ORIGIN!! Two are Indian and one is Lebanese. I don't know the ethnicity of the others.
The point here though is that this was not a parody of the African American race, but of the Jackson 5. It was a bunch of Doctors taking the p*ss out of some famous people and if you arrogant americans think you don't do that then please explain saturday night live.
And as for harry connick, he can pack up and head home..... he's probably just looking for publicity to boost his sagging and mostly pathetic career.
Before anybody complains about the act being racist, understand this. FIVE OUT OF THE SIX ACTORS ARE OF ETHNIC ORIGIN!! Two are Indian and one is Lebanese. I don't know the ethnicity of the others.
The point here though is that this was not a parody of the African American race, but of the Jackson 5. It was a bunch of Doctors taking the p*ss out of some famous people and if you arrogant americans think you don't do that then please explain saturday night live.
And as for harry connick, he can pack up and head home..... he's probably just looking for publicity to boost his sagging and mostly pathetic career.
163
"Im an Australian Aborigine. Last nights "jackson jive" skit is indicitave of the way other cultures are treated by white australians in this country.This is just the tip of the iceberg.Aboriginal people are being subjected to undeclared war and attempted genocide!!! Overt,covert,institutional racism-denial of basic human rights etc...Go Harry,maybe the world will now see what Australia is REALLY like....White Australia has a Black History!!! "
Go back to your fucking humpie you whinger !! Aboriginals have never had it so good in this country .You mob need to wake up to ya selves .
Go back to your fucking humpie you whinger !! Aboriginals have never had it so good in this country .You mob need to wake up to ya selves .
164
aussiegirl so its australian culture to make fun of black ppl. I am proud to be aussie but stupid ppl annoy me........if u dont know what was racsist about that skit, that makes u racsist.
165
I don't know if all Australians are racist. I doubt that all Australians are racists. However, I'm going to say that the ones who thought it was a good idea to dress up as "nigger minstrels" definitely are racist....and the one's who are defending them, all white so far, probably are racist too or at the very least as insensitive and dense as tree stump.
166
I live in Australia and yes I am white and yes you can hold that against me if you like even though I have no control over it. What I do have control over though is how I live my life and my views towards people from different cultures and backgrounds. I can't speak for everyone in Australia just as Harry Connick Jr can't speak on behalf of everyone in the US but what I can say is that I find it refreshing to live in a country where racism doesn't play a factor in instances such as these. Never once while watching this skit did it cross my mind that it could be taken as racist; after all they were simply performing a song by a group that they admired and isn't imitating someone meant to be a sincere form of flattery? It was only when Harry made the comment that that sort of act would not be acceptable in the US; fair enough we aren't in the US but thank you for your input and an apology was extended to him. He himself noted that he understands it was done in good humour (I'm not quoting him word for word). I just find it very hypocritcal for some people to come out and blast Australia as a racist country for one small act that went for what? Less than 30secs? I have to laugh though at some of the comments here from the US especially considering it seems ok over there to have movies such as Tropic Thunder with Robert Downey Jr playing a black man (is that the right word to use, probably not) and won an Oscar for his role so I guess that was different. I guess it was also different in the movie White Chicks where black guys (there I go again) dressed up as white girls which was considered funny and if I'm honest I love that movie and at no stage was I offended being a white female and did not at all consider this racist; I took it for what it was intended - light hearted entertainment. Ok, we're getting of the track here and I understand that the US has a history of racism against the black community but how long do we have to go on treading on eggshells for past mistakes made by other people? Not just this but all other aspects of history. Maybe people should focus on some real issues though I do feel sorry for #150, I dont' know where abouts you were brought up but you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder; people argue all the time it doesn't necessarily mean because of your colour or where you are from. When people fight they say things in the heat of the moment and call each other names such as fat, ugly (taking a leaf from your book here) etc etc. I think you might like your self made 'victim' status somewhat and please don't get started on road rage and drinking; let's save that for another time and focus on the topic at hand. P.S - Why didn't you try home schooling? Many kids are doing it and not for racial reasons. I like it how everyone is jumping on the racial bandwagon and blaming all their life problems on the fact that they have different coloured skin etc. Are you sure its just becuase you're not a very nice person?
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167
Hi Melsky,
Hey Melsky
That's why I said:
Fact #2: The Jackson 5 are african-americans and therefore have dark skin
Fact #3: Michael Jackson has white skin
Fact #4: All they did was dance and sing, there were no racial comments or abuse of any kind
Let me put it to you this way: If the Jackson 5 were white would it have been racist? The Jackson 5 were an awsome group, and still would have been had they been white, their skin colour is mere consequence... The skit would still have had exactly the same content but with white faces instead of black. I'll point out also that the performers were all ethnic as well so yes, they would have had to paint their faces white.
Hence my confusion as to why you regard this as racist? You didn't actually explain what makes it racist in your reply. And please refrain from calling someone racist you don't even know - that is racism in itself ;)
Hey Melsky
That's why I said:
Fact #2: The Jackson 5 are african-americans and therefore have dark skin
Fact #3: Michael Jackson has white skin
Fact #4: All they did was dance and sing, there were no racial comments or abuse of any kind
Let me put it to you this way: If the Jackson 5 were white would it have been racist? The Jackson 5 were an awsome group, and still would have been had they been white, their skin colour is mere consequence... The skit would still have had exactly the same content but with white faces instead of black. I'll point out also that the performers were all ethnic as well so yes, they would have had to paint their faces white.
Hence my confusion as to why you regard this as racist? You didn't actually explain what makes it racist in your reply. And please refrain from calling someone racist you don't even know - that is racism in itself ;)
168
aussie09 from post 163......you are a dickhead.
white men came to australia a couple of hundred years ago and imposed their way of life on us. but do you know what? it was a couple of hundred years ago and as misguided as they were they thought they were doing the right thing.
It wasn't right and a lot of bad things were perpetuated on my people but i'm going to share a big secret with everybody here. "IT IS IN THE PAST. GET OVER IT." It didn't just happen here to us, it happened worldwide.
If we can't learn to forgive people for their past mistakes, then we end up bitter and twisted. I care about the past but I REFUSE TO LET IT RULE MY FUTURE!!!!!
I am of Murray descent (for those of you not from Australia, I am aboriginal, in other words, black) and I thought the black faces skit was pathetic and not funny in the least but it was just a comedy skit. GET OVER IT PEOPLE. It wasn't even remotely racist, it was a parody. Maybe the world should be up in arms about michael jackson imperson ating a white man for the last 20 years?
If you americans are so obsessed with racial equality, why is it that in Alabama, a black man still finds it difficult to get a job in a white establishment?
white men came to australia a couple of hundred years ago and imposed their way of life on us. but do you know what? it was a couple of hundred years ago and as misguided as they were they thought they were doing the right thing.
It wasn't right and a lot of bad things were perpetuated on my people but i'm going to share a big secret with everybody here. "IT IS IN THE PAST. GET OVER IT." It didn't just happen here to us, it happened worldwide.
If we can't learn to forgive people for their past mistakes, then we end up bitter and twisted. I care about the past but I REFUSE TO LET IT RULE MY FUTURE!!!!!
I am of Murray descent (for those of you not from Australia, I am aboriginal, in other words, black) and I thought the black faces skit was pathetic and not funny in the least but it was just a comedy skit. GET OVER IT PEOPLE. It wasn't even remotely racist, it was a parody. Maybe the world should be up in arms about michael jackson imperson ating a white man for the last 20 years?
If you americans are so obsessed with racial equality, why is it that in Alabama, a black man still finds it difficult to get a job in a white establishment?
169
For an American to accuse Australians of being racist is laughable. Coming from a country that had legalised segregation until the early 1970's and in which the KKK continues to flourish in many Southern and mid Western states, the accusation is a joke. Need I remind you all that more than 80% of your prison population is made up of black males, that the standard of education offered in the predominately black communities throughout some of your largest cities is woefully behind that offered within the predominately white communities and that, although Black Americans comprise around 40% of America's total population, they hold more than 70% of the lowest paid jobs in the US. Lets not even get started on the race riots that have been experienced throughout the US in the past 10 years (or the contempt with which Latin Americans are treated throughout parts of LA). Three words "Pot, Kettle, Black!"
170
yucca flower of 165, do you not understand that 5 of the 6 people who were in this sketch are not white? therefore your argument goes out the window. sit down, shut up and fuck off!!
171
Theres an ad running on Slog for the Kangaroo & Kiwi (an Aussie bar here in Seattle) promoting something they're calling "Blacktoberfest."
They have a black beer on tap, the racists!!!
They have a black beer on tap, the racists!!!
172
Get a life!
It was a parody of the Jackson 5 NOT black people in general.
Seriously, Americans need to learn how to have a laugh at themselves and not just at other peoeple.
BTW I see that as I write this there is an advertisment for "Hump 5" on this screen. A bit of a contridiction isnt it that you cant have a laugh at a singing group but you can buy tickets for an obviously sexually related show with no criticisms?
It was a parody of the Jackson 5 NOT black people in general.
Seriously, Americans need to learn how to have a laugh at themselves and not just at other peoeple.
BTW I see that as I write this there is an advertisment for "Hump 5" on this screen. A bit of a contridiction isnt it that you cant have a laugh at a singing group but you can buy tickets for an obviously sexually related show with no criticisms?
173
I am white and Australian and i don't care what colour someone is. We have jokes made about us all the time but we know how to laugh at ourselves. Americans calling Australians racist, isn't that the pot calling the kettle bl..., oops better not say that word, the Americans might get offended. I'm offended by the news i see in America all the time but do i get on my high horse and preach about it. NO i'm not a self righteous American who thinks they are better than the rest of the world who has never done anything wrong and if they did it was because the constitution say they can. Grow up America and learn to chill out. If you are so politically corect over there, what the hell are you still doing in Afghanistan and Iraq, Oh thats right, trying to find Osama. What about the KKK or the Lone Wolf organisation, are they not one of the most racist groups on the planet and what nationality are they, that's right, American. So what if you have a black President, doesn't mean you have changed
174
I never realised Americans were that interested in Australian television, particularly the live variety where they would hardly know any of the participants. Certainly has put Hey Hey, The Reunion on the international map, for all the right or wrong reasons. Sort of reminds me of the Kraft Corporation that concocted a putrid name for its latest brand of creamy spread Vegemite and had people howling down the name in droves. They were "forced" to back down and call it something different. In the meantime everybody got to know all about the latest brand of creamy spread Vegemite. Beforehand most of us couldn't have cared less. As they say, all publicity is good publicity. Just keep up your efforts here and Hey Hey will be back on air for good!
175
@ Melissaussie #166
"I have to laugh though at some of the comments here from the US especially considering it seems ok over there to have movies such as Tropic Thunder with Robert Downey Jr playing a black man (is that the right word to use, probably not) and won an Oscar for his role so I guess that was different."
What a fantastic point - I'd really love for one of the posters claiming the Hey Hey skit was racist to point out to me why the Hey Hey skit was racist and this movie was not....
"I have to laugh though at some of the comments here from the US especially considering it seems ok over there to have movies such as Tropic Thunder with Robert Downey Jr playing a black man (is that the right word to use, probably not) and won an Oscar for his role so I guess that was different."
What a fantastic point - I'd really love for one of the posters claiming the Hey Hey skit was racist to point out to me why the Hey Hey skit was racist and this movie was not....
176
You yanks are idiots.
Save your condemnation for a country that cares.
Remember which country allowed slavery and which didn't.
Remember which country WENT TO AFRICA TO GET SLAVES and which didn't.
Remember which country made shitloads of $$$ from the slaves and which didn't.
You want to have higher morals than us? GIVE ALL YOUR SLAVE MONEY BACK TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS.
You want to have higher morals than us? Bring life expectancy rates for African-Americans in line with whites. Bring prison population percentages for African-Americans in line with white.
Talk about being hypocritical!!!!!!!!!!!
America is the most racist, backwards and moronic country in the world.
Save your condemnation for a country that cares.
Remember which country allowed slavery and which didn't.
Remember which country WENT TO AFRICA TO GET SLAVES and which didn't.
Remember which country made shitloads of $$$ from the slaves and which didn't.
You want to have higher morals than us? GIVE ALL YOUR SLAVE MONEY BACK TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS.
You want to have higher morals than us? Bring life expectancy rates for African-Americans in line with whites. Bring prison population percentages for African-Americans in line with white.
Talk about being hypocritical!!!!!!!!!!!
America is the most racist, backwards and moronic country in the world.
177
The skit was just a big ball of pure lame: there was no racist intent. Australia does have a fair few racists but Americans saying we are a backward uncivilized country because of this is (and please excuse this next phrase) like one old school kitchen utensil calling another old school kitchen utensil black.
I was amazed and humbled that Americans elected an African-American President last year but don`t kid yourselves that America doesn`t still have people with strong racial prejudices. Wasn`t there a Governor or Congressman a while back who thought it ok to call an Indian-American a monkey. And didn`t Glenn Beck only just recently call President Obama a racist? Don`t go pretending America is something that it really is not just because a black (is that offensive?) man is president.
The show and the skit - America seems to be so enraged about so as to have the audacity to claim self-righteous piety - was-/is-n`t funny but to prescribe a generalization to a country because of one show and one skit is fundamentally moronic. This is especially so if a portion of country`s people (America) are throwing out accusations from their homes made of glass.
I should, if you are setting a standard of puritanism, be mortally offended by The Simpsons episode depicting Australians as some kinda corporally punishing beer-fiends living in a ball of dust. No doubt some Australians took offense to this but I thought it was piss-funny.
Or, if we are to generalize, should I consider all Americans stupid because of a segment on the Jay Leno show the other night where he spoke to Americans on the street and asked them to finish the names of some of the more notable novels to have been written in the last few hundred years (apparently Dostoevsky wrote a novel called Crime and Passion and Dickens wrote a Tale of Two States and William Shakespeare`s first name isn`t William it is Robert and Homer wrote Platyseus but did not write The Odyssey or The Iliad)? Equally should I state that all Americans are satirically humorous and causticly witty because Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert and Bill Hicks were born in your country? Or perhaps if I were to gather a general feel of what an American`s political view may be, I could glean this knowledge by listening to Sean Hannity and Bill O`Reilly and Anne Coulter (perhaps all at once, now wouldn`t that be something to behold?).
In summary: by all means call the show shit but do not assume that that show is representative of some major racial prejudice in Australia`s population. Of course we have racists and at times we are stricken with a bad case of xenophobia but name me a country where this is not an issue?
Be well Slog-readers.
More...
I was amazed and humbled that Americans elected an African-American President last year but don`t kid yourselves that America doesn`t still have people with strong racial prejudices. Wasn`t there a Governor or Congressman a while back who thought it ok to call an Indian-American a monkey. And didn`t Glenn Beck only just recently call President Obama a racist? Don`t go pretending America is something that it really is not just because a black (is that offensive?) man is president.
The show and the skit - America seems to be so enraged about so as to have the audacity to claim self-righteous piety - was-/is-n`t funny but to prescribe a generalization to a country because of one show and one skit is fundamentally moronic. This is especially so if a portion of country`s people (America) are throwing out accusations from their homes made of glass.
I should, if you are setting a standard of puritanism, be mortally offended by The Simpsons episode depicting Australians as some kinda corporally punishing beer-fiends living in a ball of dust. No doubt some Australians took offense to this but I thought it was piss-funny.
Or, if we are to generalize, should I consider all Americans stupid because of a segment on the Jay Leno show the other night where he spoke to Americans on the street and asked them to finish the names of some of the more notable novels to have been written in the last few hundred years (apparently Dostoevsky wrote a novel called Crime and Passion and Dickens wrote a Tale of Two States and William Shakespeare`s first name isn`t William it is Robert and Homer wrote Platyseus but did not write The Odyssey or The Iliad)? Equally should I state that all Americans are satirically humorous and causticly witty because Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert and Bill Hicks were born in your country? Or perhaps if I were to gather a general feel of what an American`s political view may be, I could glean this knowledge by listening to Sean Hannity and Bill O`Reilly and Anne Coulter (perhaps all at once, now wouldn`t that be something to behold?).
In summary: by all means call the show shit but do not assume that that show is representative of some major racial prejudice in Australia`s population. Of course we have racists and at times we are stricken with a bad case of xenophobia but name me a country where this is not an issue?
Be well Slog-readers.
178
@172, they are upset because putting on black makeup HERE, IN THE US has historical implications that it doesn't have in Australia. One is a racist, apparently, for not knowing American cultural history, even if you live elsewhere.
Just like @3 Fifty-Two-Eighty is a racist because he used the word "Abo.". Not ACTUALLY KNOWING the word had racist connotations (people here don't know that) does not excuse him. He is a racist, pure and simple.
I usually think Paul Constant is smart because he reads books, but boy is he overlooking he obvious here.
Just like @3 Fifty-Two-Eighty is a racist because he used the word "Abo.". Not ACTUALLY KNOWING the word had racist connotations (people here don't know that) does not excuse him. He is a racist, pure and simple.
I usually think Paul Constant is smart because he reads books, but boy is he overlooking he obvious here.
180
What a bunch of hypocrites you Americans are. In the AMERICAN film released LAST YEAR Robert Downey JR was NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR for PAINTING HIS FACE BLACK AND PRETENDING TO BE A BLACK MAN. I bet you all thought that was funny, but when a non-american does it it's racist eh?
181
Yes, we Australians are generally racist (but no better or worse than most nations), but last nights sketch had nothing to do with race. How else do we parody a group of men with dark skin and black frizzy hair? Blonde hair and pink shorts? It had more to do with 'The Jacksons' being talentless freaks more than anything else. and finally, fair dink'm, were do precious Americans get off preaching to us that we are racist? Look in your own back yard mate! "America, home of the free, racists, greedy, homophobic & religious Zealots !"
182
Attention: American race-baiters- do you actually realize that, apart from one of them, these Australian performers were not White? The rest of them were of Indian and Middle-Eastern ethnicity, though they are Australian citizens. Americans don't seriously expect Australian's to act all apologetic because THEY enslaved millions of Africans do they?
183
The huge carry on about this issue is ridiculous. It was a short skit, which once the world didn't cared or even known about, except now they have all become so politically censored, and trying to be so pleasing to ever race, sex, country or religious group who seem to get offended no matter what you say or do. Sad truth in this so called Utopia they are trying to create, is that you can't keep everyone happy or not offend people, things are always taken two ways, either for or against. Normally the against will jump to most over exaggerated conclusion, hence all the uproar about a short skit not even targeting racism at a racial group, but merrily a comedy taking off of a band. People are no longer able to make joke in society in fear of offending someone, if not everyone. Very interesting how the touted self-professed tolerant society we live in so quickly rears its ugly intolerant head when confronted with humour or just a slight knock at character. Comedians and Impressionists beware. The World is either becoming a bunch of whingers or politically censored zombies, excepting of all things and trying so hard not to tread on any ones toes or offend the masses.
184
i don't think Australians understand . I loathe racism and hope they sincerely apologise and learn from it.
185
I've posted several questions here already asking for someone to explain to me how this skit was racist, not one reply as yet....
Or how Robert Downey Jr's portrayal of a black man in Tropic Thunder was different to this skit...
Or how Harry Connick Jr's portayal of a black reverend was different to this skit...
Anyone? It seems a little hypocritical to me that Mr. Connick would refer to the Jackson 5 skit as racist when he himself has done a much longer performance of a very similar nature (plus throwing in some religion for good measure).
Aussies have been blanket labelled as racist because of Mr. Connicks comments. Does that then mean I have the right to call all American's hypocritical?
As I ponder that, I'll continue waiting for an explanation to the above...
Or how Robert Downey Jr's portrayal of a black man in Tropic Thunder was different to this skit...
Or how Harry Connick Jr's portayal of a black reverend was different to this skit...
Anyone? It seems a little hypocritical to me that Mr. Connick would refer to the Jackson 5 skit as racist when he himself has done a much longer performance of a very similar nature (plus throwing in some religion for good measure).
Aussies have been blanket labelled as racist because of Mr. Connicks comments. Does that then mean I have the right to call all American's hypocritical?
As I ponder that, I'll continue waiting for an explanation to the above...
186
Don't call us ALL racists...we are not and that's not at all fair. Your own ABC news published the results of a survey of Australian's opinions which shows the majority of us Aussies thought it was racist.
"While the live crowd was largely supportive of the skit, 62 percent of respondents to an online poll by The Courier-Mail newspaper called the segment "tasteless and racist.""
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wire…
"While the live crowd was largely supportive of the skit, 62 percent of respondents to an online poll by The Courier-Mail newspaper called the segment "tasteless and racist.""
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wire…
187
AussieGirl, you need your answers spoon fed to you?
Go back and read the comment thread if you want to know why Tropic Thunder is different. I already explained it, not that you'd understand anyway.
Go back and read the comment thread if you want to know why Tropic Thunder is different. I already explained it, not that you'd understand anyway.
188
I'm actually surprised that these americans actually know what and where australia is.
I also wonder how many native americans are in positions of influence?
I should apologise to the good old U.S. of A(ssholes) because they are such a well balanced and equitable nation who also happen to be the only nation on earth who have ever dropped a nuclear weapon in anger.
grow up america, you are a bunch of bigotted imbeciles.
I also wonder how many native americans are in positions of influence?
I should apologise to the good old U.S. of A(ssholes) because they are such a well balanced and equitable nation who also happen to be the only nation on earth who have ever dropped a nuclear weapon in anger.
grow up america, you are a bunch of bigotted imbeciles.
189
Just for the record, the Courier Mail - a Queensland based newspaper - is running a poll asking:
Was Hey Hey's Jackson Jive skit tasteless and racist?
So far 62% (3857 votes) have voted yes.
While 37% (2312 votes) have voted no.
People should be wary of leaping to the conclusion that Australian are generally racist. As someone else pointed out, we're not an amorphous blob. We're not even a single culture. And if you think the racism that does exist is the preserve of so-called white Australians, then you're naive at best.
Was Hey Hey's Jackson Jive skit tasteless and racist?
So far 62% (3857 votes) have voted yes.
While 37% (2312 votes) have voted no.
People should be wary of leaping to the conclusion that Australian are generally racist. As someone else pointed out, we're not an amorphous blob. We're not even a single culture. And if you think the racism that does exist is the preserve of so-called white Australians, then you're naive at best.
190
I would like to apologise on behalf of majority of Australians who are almost certainly appalled by this skit. I think it shows a lack of political sensitivity, especially to Americans. And people should be sensitive to other people's cultural/political issues.
That being said, I don't believe these people set out to offend anyone.
I also don't think their motivation was racist, per se, any more than a dozen British programs that also feature white men dressed up in black makeup - Ali G, The Mighty Boosh (very popular in America I hear), or Little Britain.
They have also apologised publicly, and so has the host of the program.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sto…
That being said, I don't believe these people set out to offend anyone.
I also don't think their motivation was racist, per se, any more than a dozen British programs that also feature white men dressed up in black makeup - Ali G, The Mighty Boosh (very popular in America I hear), or Little Britain.
They have also apologised publicly, and so has the host of the program.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sto…
191
Is it ok for a black man to paint his face white?
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/84/84iwhite…
Doesn't the KKK still exist in the good old US of A??
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/84/84iwhite…
Doesn't the KKK still exist in the good old US of A??
192
Yes the skit was just plain silly.
But as an Australian what I cannot understand is how a tv program and what happens on it is somehow related to the entire country? Sounds like some people need to stop generalising and wake up to themselves.
So all Americans are raving, racist lunatics because fox news presenters are? Of course not. Your countless movies where actors both black and white dress up as another race is offensive is it? THE FACT that the guy playing MJ in this particular skit is in fact an Indian Australian - well that doesn't fit your nice neat stereotypical view of white Australia does it?
How many appalling comments I've read on here stating Australians are backwards or racists. It seems that if an offence is given, then its fine to just offend an entire people is it?
Hypercritical, is a word that springs to mind.
But as an Australian what I cannot understand is how a tv program and what happens on it is somehow related to the entire country? Sounds like some people need to stop generalising and wake up to themselves.
So all Americans are raving, racist lunatics because fox news presenters are? Of course not. Your countless movies where actors both black and white dress up as another race is offensive is it? THE FACT that the guy playing MJ in this particular skit is in fact an Indian Australian - well that doesn't fit your nice neat stereotypical view of white Australia does it?
How many appalling comments I've read on here stating Australians are backwards or racists. It seems that if an offence is given, then its fine to just offend an entire people is it?
Hypercritical, is a word that springs to mind.
193
unpaid commenter, there is a reason you are unpaid..your opinion is worth shit.
the only real difference i see in your comparisons is that the ones you see as ok are all american.
also, please understand this - this skit was not a parody of african americans(which by the way is an oxymoron) but a parody of wacko jacko and his equally dysfunctional family.
by the way, i am aboriginal and i am not offended by this skit. it was lame, uninteresting and definitely not funny but it was not offensive.
if you take offence where none is intended then i say it is you who have the problem.
by the way, 5 of the 6 members of the skit are not even white which shoots your comments right out the window.
unless one of them happened to be standing on a grassy knoll at the time.
the only real difference i see in your comparisons is that the ones you see as ok are all american.
also, please understand this - this skit was not a parody of african americans(which by the way is an oxymoron) but a parody of wacko jacko and his equally dysfunctional family.
by the way, i am aboriginal and i am not offended by this skit. it was lame, uninteresting and definitely not funny but it was not offensive.
if you take offence where none is intended then i say it is you who have the problem.
by the way, 5 of the 6 members of the skit are not even white which shoots your comments right out the window.
unless one of them happened to be standing on a grassy knoll at the time.
194
I'm Australian. I'm not going to defend what happened last night. It was awful and offensive (to me and everyone else in the room - all Australians). To say anything else shows complete ignorance and a lack of understanding of the history of 'blackface'.
The comments about 'you Americans' relating to oversensitivity only serve to worsen the situation - it was a patently offensive skit, and anyone offended had every right to be upset by it.
I really hope everyone doesn't think we all behave like this.
The comments about 'you Americans' relating to oversensitivity only serve to worsen the situation - it was a patently offensive skit, and anyone offended had every right to be upset by it.
I really hope everyone doesn't think we all behave like this.
195
Simon...I just posted that above too....and thank goodness ABC America is including that survey when they report on the story. I'm happy to see those results....would be better if it was 100%, but it does show the majority of us, by far, are not racist.
197
@101 and 128 both of you have chosen to atack me personally and yet whilst you have both called me a "Racist" and an "Ignorant Moron" I have not discussed your views personally, both of these comments do show your complete lack of sophisticated conversation or more to the point it is most often what happens when cousins breed.
I have had the last word now and will not pursue any further discussion on this matter.
and might I just say to all of the posters.
A big rasberry to to all of the blow hards(you know who you are)
Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi
I have had the last word now and will not pursue any further discussion on this matter.
and might I just say to all of the posters.
A big rasberry to to all of the blow hards(you know who you are)
Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi
198
Unpaid Commenter:
Do you feel better now after insulting me? That kind of behaviour is unhelpful and unecessary. It does however reflect very poorly on you as a person and a commenter, and demonstrates your inability to get your point across in intelligent conversation :)
1. Downey's role in Tropic Thunder was all about sending up black americans - that was the purpose of having the role in the movie.
2. The skit was about the Jackson 5, and the fact that the men were black is mere consequence. If the Jackson 5 were white, their faces would have been painted white.
So... how is the skit racist and Tropic Thunder not? I'm not saying Tropic Thunder is racist, I am pointing out that the Jackson 5 skit is not racist
All that aside, you yourself haven't actually once been able to explain why it was racist....
Do you feel better now after insulting me? That kind of behaviour is unhelpful and unecessary. It does however reflect very poorly on you as a person and a commenter, and demonstrates your inability to get your point across in intelligent conversation :)
1. Downey's role in Tropic Thunder was all about sending up black americans - that was the purpose of having the role in the movie.
2. The skit was about the Jackson 5, and the fact that the men were black is mere consequence. If the Jackson 5 were white, their faces would have been painted white.
So... how is the skit racist and Tropic Thunder not? I'm not saying Tropic Thunder is racist, I am pointing out that the Jackson 5 skit is not racist
All that aside, you yourself haven't actually once been able to explain why it was racist....
200
Dear other countries: Maybe you should do some more research if you're going to imitate stuff we used to do. Some of it is considered highly offensive in these more conscientious times.
201
As an Aussie, I find this whole drama to be a pathetic hypocritical beat up by the Americans. I am white, but my wife is a pacific islander. Her brother & brother's spouse visited the US recently. They hated it. Guess why? lots of people assumed they were Mexican, and either didn't serve them, were slow to serve them, or attempted to speak to them in Spanish. They felt like 2nd class citizens the whole time they were there.
My wife has NEVER copped any abuse or insults because of her race. Australians may joke about race, but actions speak louder than words. My mostly white street in a upper-middle class area recently had African refugees (1 couple with 8 kids) move in. Everyone has bent over backwards to help them get settled in. I helped the gentleman sort out his mobile phone problems last night.
I had an email today from a Hindu Australian Indian bloke inviting me to a BBQ at his place to celebrate the Hindu new year (no cow being cooked obviously). He is one of the proudest Aussies I know, and happy to be raising kids here.
99% of the time, people of other races here never have any problems - provided they make an effort to be Aussie (this doesn't mean they have to lose their own culture).
In the US, they don't dare joke about race, but they still segregate themselves and treat other groups as second class citizens.
My wife has NEVER copped any abuse or insults because of her race. Australians may joke about race, but actions speak louder than words. My mostly white street in a upper-middle class area recently had African refugees (1 couple with 8 kids) move in. Everyone has bent over backwards to help them get settled in. I helped the gentleman sort out his mobile phone problems last night.
I had an email today from a Hindu Australian Indian bloke inviting me to a BBQ at his place to celebrate the Hindu new year (no cow being cooked obviously). He is one of the proudest Aussies I know, and happy to be raising kids here.
99% of the time, people of other races here never have any problems - provided they make an effort to be Aussie (this doesn't mean they have to lose their own culture).
In the US, they don't dare joke about race, but they still segregate themselves and treat other groups as second class citizens.
202
Unpaid commenter,
If you took the time to take your head out of your ass you might realise that there is no diff between Robert Downey Jr and the Aussie 5 except that one went for about 1min and the other went for about 2hours. If you got offended by the Hey Hey skit, you must have been absolutely horrified at having to sit through the racist jibe that is tropic thunder for 2 hours. Oh thats right, you can't see past that one eyed American ass your head is stuck in. Talk about rose coloured glasses.
If you took the time to take your head out of your ass you might realise that there is no diff between Robert Downey Jr and the Aussie 5 except that one went for about 1min and the other went for about 2hours. If you got offended by the Hey Hey skit, you must have been absolutely horrified at having to sit through the racist jibe that is tropic thunder for 2 hours. Oh thats right, you can't see past that one eyed American ass your head is stuck in. Talk about rose coloured glasses.
203
@ 105, Unpaid commenter.
"First and foremost, Robert Downey Jr. was making fun of method actors going to extreme lengths to immerse themselves in a role. Secondly, because it was a movie within a movie, RDjr was playing a fictonal actor in blackface, rather then playing blackface himself".
So its ok because it was a fictional actor in blackface in a movie within a movie??
Bahahahah....you idiot.
"First and foremost, Robert Downey Jr. was making fun of method actors going to extreme lengths to immerse themselves in a role. Secondly, because it was a movie within a movie, RDjr was playing a fictonal actor in blackface, rather then playing blackface himself".
So its ok because it was a fictional actor in blackface in a movie within a movie??
Bahahahah....you idiot.
204
As an Australian who is not at all racist, (he says as 1000 people out there in web land call me just that without knowing who I am), I don't get it! Black face is not racist. Golliwogs are not racist just as rag dolls made of white material are not racist. It is the intention of the performer or maker of the article that may or may not be racist. If I was to play a Japaneese Ninga (for example) in a play or a film I would need to put a black wig on and coloured make up and a costume to get away with it, and I would do this- does this make me racist? If I had to play a typical African man or an afro-American I would also need make-up and I would put it on to play the part - am I a racist? If you say yes to this question then you are calling Eddie Murphy, Robert Downey Jr and Harry Connick Jr all racists. America has got it wrong.
205
I'd just like to add that as an Australian I don't believe us to be a racist nation just like Americans don't believe to be a racist nation, but step back and have a look at a few of your comments. Especially the ones that imply we are a simple people and a simple country . We are aware that it may have touched a nerve, but those blokes in the skit, only 1 of them was anglo-saxon. They were from greek, an indian, asain decent. So once again how about people stop talking from their arse and do a little research and watching before you start branding Australians racist and backwards. This was about a music skit on the jackson 5 that was a bit fun not mean't to discriminate. And Mr Harry Connick Jnr needs to look into his past and just see exactly how innocent he is about parody on certain people of the community and how his work was only in jest!
206
if it is racist to imitate people of another race in the name of comedy, then eddie murphy in coming to america is racist. i could go on and on and on about people who have fit this mold over the years.
but they were funny so its ok.
the jackson jive skit is not funny ( by the way, the segment of the show is called red faces. it is not a talent show but a skit where quite often the worst performer has won. you americans wouldn't understand)
that is the on;y difference
but they were funny so its ok.
the jackson jive skit is not funny ( by the way, the segment of the show is called red faces. it is not a talent show but a skit where quite often the worst performer has won. you americans wouldn't understand)
that is the on;y difference
207
How DARE you generalise Australia like that. How dare you label a whole 21 million people as racist. How dare you undermine the thousands, nay, millions of Australians who work tirelessly to promote the wellbeing of Aboriginals and raise funds to improve their quality of life and standing in society, the millions of Australians who cried with happiness during the election of Barack Obama and the symbolic meaning of his presidency, and the millions who respect other cultures and treat all people equally. Americans are in no position to talk, if the horrific treatment of African Americans during Hurricane Katrina is any indication. Stop pointing the finger at our country and start focusing on how to change the problems in your own. Like any country we have those who are racist and those who are not. Sadly, that is a fact of life. But the vast majority of Australians are extremely respectful of other cultures and races and do not deserve to be labelled by the international press and have their nationality dirtied simply due to one single television skit.
209
You know what - I wish I hadn't started reading this blog. There is a lot of unfair unjustified badly used evidence on both sides that has just made me, as an academic used to rational well founded arguments, very angry. I may be Australian, and in US minds makes me racist. I supposedly intelligent and thoughful (thus my academic background) yet I'm reading this blog... and it's full of rubbish! You know what... as Australians we have cared too much what other people think about us. We have traditionally had this 'cultural cringe' about how we see ourselves in the global context and allowed others such as the US to unfairly influence the way we live our lives. Why was Harry Connick Jnr judging this event? Why are US soap stars on our logies awards nights? Why do we care so much? This is the best place in the world to live because of the tolerance we have for other people contrary to much of the 'evidence' above. We shouldn't care about what the americans here say about us. We should get off this blog and continue to move forward on all of the above issues in the best way we can. America is f@cked in so many ways... gun laws, hidden racism, extremes of moral beahviour etc etc etc, so why would we take their advice? Come on Aussies. Call it quits here, lets make our own agenda and deal with things like indigenous rights, assimilation of cultures and its role in Australian society on our own terms without the pontificating bullshit of a monocultural world view enforced by the egocentrism of "America' as they call themselves.
210
Funny thing - the person playing Michael Jackson actually is "black" himself. He is of Indian (Asian) decent. He is a massive Michael fan and in no way inteded the performance as a race issue... If you check your records the "offended" Harry Connick did a similar thing in 1996 on US TV - can't have it both ways...
211
@ 16 "When the origin of your country can be summed up as "world's biggest prison colony," you can't expect much cultural sensitivity. Maybe somebody should go on "America's Got Talent" dressed as Paul Hogan chained to a rock".
As Aussies we'd all piss our pants laughing at that and so would Paul....and that my fellow humans is the difference. Aussies can laugh at ourselves.
So who would you rather be : a high strung, holier than thou,uptight, fake person or someone who can take the bad with the good and laugh at life in general??
I'd rather be the Aussie...who in actual fact is a bitsa like the rest of you
As Aussies we'd all piss our pants laughing at that and so would Paul....and that my fellow humans is the difference. Aussies can laugh at ourselves.
So who would you rather be : a high strung, holier than thou,uptight, fake person or someone who can take the bad with the good and laugh at life in general??
I'd rather be the Aussie...who in actual fact is a bitsa like the rest of you
212
I'm an American expat living in Melbourne. One thing I've noticed since I moved here is that Australians love to take the piss out of everyone and everything, but can't take what they dish out. My foreign (not American) friends here have commented to me that sometimes the joking goes too far, but they know the Australians would be offended if they called them out on it (see: this comment thread), so they just let it go. Among my co-workers, who are lovely people, the consensus seems to be that it's unfortunate people were offended by the skit, but that it was just a joke and people should relax about it. It just doesn't occur to them that their sense of humor might not match up to those around them. The nicest person I work with was actually offended that I found the skit offensive - as if by finding it offensive I was calling all of Australia racist.
What I'm trying to say here is that Australians get pretty offended you think their jokes aren't funny - more than you ever were originally - and feel the need to defend their sense of humor. It doesn't make the skit less racist, but it explains why so many people are jumping online to defend it.
What I'm trying to say here is that Australians get pretty offended you think their jokes aren't funny - more than you ever were originally - and feel the need to defend their sense of humor. It doesn't make the skit less racist, but it explains why so many people are jumping online to defend it.
213
Dear America,
Maybe you should realise the world doesn't revolve around you.
Maybe you should realise that the majority of people in other countries have no fucking idea what a "Minstrel" show is. That is probably because the people in other countries never made fun of an entire race in a show so consistently, that a name was given to it.
But then again, the majority of other countries never went to Africa to enslave their people.....
But then again, the majority of other countries never built their economy on slave labour.....
Slave trading hypocrits.
Maybe you should realise the world doesn't revolve around you.
Maybe you should realise that the majority of people in other countries have no fucking idea what a "Minstrel" show is. That is probably because the people in other countries never made fun of an entire race in a show so consistently, that a name was given to it.
But then again, the majority of other countries never went to Africa to enslave their people.....
But then again, the majority of other countries never built their economy on slave labour.....
Slave trading hypocrits.
214
To #168, your comment "Maybe the world should be up in arms about michael jackson impersonating a white man for the last 20 years?" is a bloody classic and a damn sight funnier than the skit was! Good on you!
This whole blog is full of hypocritical waffle. Comments such as "Australians are racist savages"(#20), "Everyone's drunk 99% of the time"(#116), the "not-so civilised world"(#56), and the disgusting "an abo president"(#3) do absolutely nothing but make your own culture appear like a bunch of backward hypocritcal biggots. But, not one to stereotype, I'll assume that the writers of those comments are the idiots and not every single person of their race also. As an educated, non-racist, very civilised (yes we do exist) Australian, half of the comments on this blog are much more offensive than the 'comedy' skit that inspired it. The skit was ignorant and not funny at all, but the writers of the above mentioned blogs and all that are similar should be absolutely disgusted in themselves. HYPOCRITES!!
This whole blog is full of hypocritical waffle. Comments such as "Australians are racist savages"(#20), "Everyone's drunk 99% of the time"(#116), the "not-so civilised world"(#56), and the disgusting "an abo president"(#3) do absolutely nothing but make your own culture appear like a bunch of backward hypocritcal biggots. But, not one to stereotype, I'll assume that the writers of those comments are the idiots and not every single person of their race also. As an educated, non-racist, very civilised (yes we do exist) Australian, half of the comments on this blog are much more offensive than the 'comedy' skit that inspired it. The skit was ignorant and not funny at all, but the writers of the above mentioned blogs and all that are similar should be absolutely disgusted in themselves. HYPOCRITES!!
215
Australia does have some racist asses. And given that the skit was on Hey Hey I expect that it was probably tacky and unfunny, and possibly offensive.
But judging a whole country on it's YouTube commenters? Really? No way is that fair.
But judging a whole country on it's YouTube commenters? Really? No way is that fair.
216
Ahh, come on take a look at your own culture before throwing stones. How many performers in your country parody others, how many TV shows / movies do the same? We have to put up with your insensitive crap, ie. the most common one "a dingo ate my baby" does anyone know the history behind this, it aint funny yet it is commonly thrown around. I agree that the producers didn't think about the skit, they were thinking in the past. Yet to label all Aussies rasist because of it, come on, take a look in the mirror.
217
Christ on a bike. Australians up the wazoo here. Guess it must be daytime there. I wonder if we can have 350 comments by morning (American time)?
218
I should add, most of these "look in the mirror" commentators should search for "Fnarf" on this thread and read his comments. They're something each and every "clean your house first" people should read.
219
Please tell me what the big deal is?
I am an african woman that has grown up in Australia. I found this humourous, nothing more. I find Harry offensive - and nothing more than to better his dying career by throwing this in the air.
Noone pulled the white chicks movies off the shelf because it was racist, or the many skits over time on saturday night live of white men dressing as a black man. Are there not better things to focus on like global warming?
Everyone is getting caught up in the pety things, soon enough humankind will be extinct. And then what. No black, white.. anything.
Enough with it all.
I am an african woman that has grown up in Australia. I found this humourous, nothing more. I find Harry offensive - and nothing more than to better his dying career by throwing this in the air.
Noone pulled the white chicks movies off the shelf because it was racist, or the many skits over time on saturday night live of white men dressing as a black man. Are there not better things to focus on like global warming?
Everyone is getting caught up in the pety things, soon enough humankind will be extinct. And then what. No black, white.. anything.
Enough with it all.
220
@ 205,
Because only whites can be racist? And Greeks, Indians, and Asians can't be racist? Nobody with dark skin is ever racist or biased? Really?
p.s. For those who say "don't judge us, look at your own culture" I would like to respond, "We here at Slog do look at our own country's racism and we call people out on it". The Australians who've come to the defense of this tacky, inappropriate show in the comments, on the other hand, have responded by being waaaay too defensive or by sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "La, la, la, la, la! Racism doesn't really exist here!".
Meanwhile, I have on more than one occasion had retiree Australian ex-pats tell me they left the country because they couldn't stand all the African/Pakistani/Indian immigrants that had moved in. I've also heard a former neighbor brag they loved Sidney in the 70's, because when he visited he was invited into people's homes and was treated like a king while the 'niggers' in his unit couldn't get even get a hotel room.And yes, that generation doesn't have any problem using racial slurs...and not as a joke either.
Because only whites can be racist? And Greeks, Indians, and Asians can't be racist? Nobody with dark skin is ever racist or biased? Really?
p.s. For those who say "don't judge us, look at your own culture" I would like to respond, "We here at Slog do look at our own country's racism and we call people out on it". The Australians who've come to the defense of this tacky, inappropriate show in the comments, on the other hand, have responded by being waaaay too defensive or by sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "La, la, la, la, la! Racism doesn't really exist here!".
Meanwhile, I have on more than one occasion had retiree Australian ex-pats tell me they left the country because they couldn't stand all the African/Pakistani/Indian immigrants that had moved in. I've also heard a former neighbor brag they loved Sidney in the 70's, because when he visited he was invited into people's homes and was treated like a king while the 'niggers' in his unit couldn't get even get a hotel room.And yes, that generation doesn't have any problem using racial slurs...and not as a joke either.
221
@ 214,
Michael Jackson impersonated Joan Crawford for the last 20 years. We usually chalk it up to a combination of body dysmorphic disorder and having Elizabeth Taylor as a mentor.
Michael Jackson impersonated Joan Crawford for the last 20 years. We usually chalk it up to a combination of body dysmorphic disorder and having Elizabeth Taylor as a mentor.
222
IN REPLY TO #16.... "When the origin of your country can be summed up as "world's biggest prison colony," you can't expect much cultural sensitivity."......
If Australia is worlds biggest prison colony, what are you? The worlds bigest slave labour camp?
Oh, and FYI..... take a look at Georgias history.
I think you will find that England was sending convicts to the good old US of A before they sent them to Australia. So you are part convict also.
If Australia is worlds biggest prison colony, what are you? The worlds bigest slave labour camp?
Oh, and FYI..... take a look at Georgias history.
I think you will find that England was sending convicts to the good old US of A before they sent them to Australia. So you are part convict also.
223
This isn't about racism... it's about americans telling us what we can and can't show on our TV. Yes, it probably was a blue to air it, but we're not stupid - we can see that ourselves. I'm not having the people of another country tell me how to handle things... it doesn't work like that. That's why the world is fucked... americans telling everyone else what to do. F@ck of yanks. Leave us alone to make and fix our own mistakes.
224
I am just trying to understand how five Australians wearing face paint can upset a nation that produced a film called Topic Thunder featuring an American actor portraying an Australian actor playing a African American in face paint?????????????????????????????????
225
all i have to say is if people dont understand australian humour then dont watch it. We are not racists, that clip wasnt racist. People who see a problem are the racists, because they see race.. In australia we care more about your attitude towards our country and our values, than the colour of your skin.. And believe it or not we can have a laugh about things.. Maybe if you moronic yanks could follow suit instead of blowing up your own buildings and killings millions of people around the world, maybe then you'd have a chance at redemption and normal life.
227
@212
We do not feel the need to defend our humour; we are defending OUR freedom of speech or does that only apply in the US?
We do not feel the need to defend our humour; we are defending OUR freedom of speech or does that only apply in the US?
228
One of my favorite lines that caught my eye skimming through (written by an American expat living in Melbourne, @212) here was:
The nicest person I work with was actually offended that I found the skit offensive
I had a similar reaction: I'm embarrassed that this magazine/blog I regularly read apparently found this offensive.
To quote from a blog entry written by Momus, entitled 'Nisemonobama is worse than Fauxbama!', that sums this up better than I can, http://imomus.livejournal.com/430761.htm… :
To exclude black people from representation by others is rather like excluding them from restaurants or hotels; it performs, basically, the same series of reductions and stereotypes as the thing it claims to be against.
See also @219:
I am an african woman that has grown up in Australia. I found this humourous, nothing more. I find Harry offensive...
The nicest person I work with was actually offended that I found the skit offensive
I had a similar reaction: I'm embarrassed that this magazine/blog I regularly read apparently found this offensive.
To quote from a blog entry written by Momus, entitled 'Nisemonobama is worse than Fauxbama!', that sums this up better than I can, http://imomus.livejournal.com/430761.htm… :
To exclude black people from representation by others is rather like excluding them from restaurants or hotels; it performs, basically, the same series of reductions and stereotypes as the thing it claims to be against.
See also @219:
I am an african woman that has grown up in Australia. I found this humourous, nothing more. I find Harry offensive...
229
Americans are the most ignorant race on the planet, it’s hilarious that the whole world knows this but the dumb down main stream yanks. This may be of offence in your culture but in Australian culture we have a sense of humour. Remember who are the capitalist mongers that will let their citizens live on the streets with a work or die mentality and let them die with no health care. Most of the western developed world has evolved empathy and sympathy, Americans has evolved greed and selfishness.
We have a saying for people who cant take a joke.. and Harry Connick Jnr is a tosser.. this is the first thing I thought and most educated Australians agree!
Focus on your next war!
Hypocrite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMva…
We have a saying for people who cant take a joke.. and Harry Connick Jnr is a tosser.. this is the first thing I thought and most educated Australians agree!
Focus on your next war!
Hypocrite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMva…
230
This article and its responses are highly discriminatory against Australians, it stinks of American exceptionalism, and completely nullifies any valid point it is trying to make.
231
AMERICANS ARE HYPOCRITES!!!
You have absolutely no problem vilifying Arabs and Muslim people through your media and movies - Rules of Engadgement, Delta Force, True Lies...the list goes on, with no thought of remorse. But, if the shoes on the other foot, then political correctness goes into overdrive! Hypocrites!
And, if you want a perfect example of hypocrisy, then look at this skit. Apparently black face mockery dosent apply to an American.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andre…
You have absolutely no problem vilifying Arabs and Muslim people through your media and movies - Rules of Engadgement, Delta Force, True Lies...the list goes on, with no thought of remorse. But, if the shoes on the other foot, then political correctness goes into overdrive! Hypocrites!
And, if you want a perfect example of hypocrisy, then look at this skit. Apparently black face mockery dosent apply to an American.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andre…
232
I have never writen in one of these so called slogs but as an Australian reading that Americans are calling us racist is quite funny. It was burning my eyes watching the talentless skit but seriously how can anyone say that Australians are racist? We are possibly the most multicultural counrty in the world, 5 of the 6 talentless performers were of ethnic background. America, wake up, do some homework and have a good, a very very good look at your precious little selves before a nation as ripe with racism can pass judgement on to any other country in the world. Don't try and pass the buck America, I have been to your country, you are still the most racist country in the world.
233
I read where it was suggested we are 30 years behind the Americans when it comes to racist issues. Perhaps if you stopped seing colour before you saw the actual person, or watched a video and listened rather than see what colour the entertainers were, then we would be where you are at now right? Hmm I think I will stay 30 years behind then and as a coloured man here in Australia I did not for a second see it a racist until a racist pointed it out to me. The problem is you over there look at someone and see their colour, we don't here, you all just want to make apoint of what colour someone is. Australia racist, you must be kidding!
234
Oh crap...
That Courier Mail poll I mentioned in post #189 has now gone the other way... dramatically.
Was Hey Hey's Jackson Jive skit tasteless and racist?
Yes.33% (4264 votes)
No. 66% (8427 votes)
*sigh*
That Courier Mail poll I mentioned in post #189 has now gone the other way... dramatically.
Was Hey Hey's Jackson Jive skit tasteless and racist?
Yes.33% (4264 votes)
No. 66% (8427 votes)
*sigh*
235
In response to @fifty-two-eighty. Comment # 3. Just so you know, mate, "Abo" is considered an incredibly offensive word in Australia - on a par with "nigger". Are we starting to see that racism is somewhat more reliant on cultural context than many contributors to this debate are acknowledging?
236
In response to @fifty-two-eighty. Comment # 3. Just so you know, mate, "Abo" is considered an incredibly offensive word in Australia - on a par with "nigger". Are we starting to see that racism is somewhat more reliant on cultural context than many contributors to this debate are willing to acknowledge?
237
Does anyone else find this entire subject INCREDIBLY ironic.
I mean let me explain it to anyone too dumb to spot it. Saying that Australians are racist, is kind of, ... y'know ... a generalisation? ... y'know ... uhh ... a generalisation based on ethnicity?
Hence... err ... racist?
I mean let me explain it to anyone too dumb to spot it. Saying that Australians are racist, is kind of, ... y'know ... a generalisation? ... y'know ... uhh ... a generalisation based on ethnicity?
Hence... err ... racist?
238
Oh dear...y r Americans so stupid!!...An African American (AA) is voted in as US President and the American public beat their chest in unison proclaiming 'racial progress' when in reality the US is run by white men in big multinational corporations, the FBI, CIA and the Mafia...everything else is merely an illusion to perceive a democratic process when in fact the traditional forms of cultural society, economy and religion remain within the status quo...gee I wonder if the proportion of AA's in the US prison system has or will ever change. and I wonder if seismic demographic shifts will ever occur in order to provide a measure of equality for AA's. I guess not when the true powerbrokers within the US system continue to feed an illusionary ideal the stupid and gullible American public continue to soak and bow down too with empty wallets, empty stomachs and empty heads...I'd rather be 2000 years behind than walking into the future with the US.
239
I am reminded of a scene from Michael Moore's movie, 'Sicko' where a woman was dumped by a taxi driver in front of a skid row clinic. The woman was dressed in a hospital gown and completely confused until someone from the clinic rescued her. I am American, and I live in Australia. I know both places very well and I have no qualms in saying that as each day passes, I feel more and more disgusted about the way we Americans treat the rest of the world. But then again, we can dump helpless sick people on the streets in our own country... Why shouldn't we be allowed to tell off the rest of the world when we think they have done something wrong.
By the way, two visits to Oz and reading some books does not give us American tossers the right to use the word 'mate'. "I've met some of the nicest people there...or from there"? A little patronizing, don't ya think?
There's nothing quite like being a superior American asshole.... At least I get to do it in a country where people are decent, murders are rare and people in need are not being dumped by taxi drivers, (paid by hospitals) in skid row.
Stop throwing stones. The people here don't care about you. I recommend to any americans that you stop reading and watching your local news. Get yourself on the foreign news services and take a big drink of how much of a laughing stock America is in the real world.
It's genetic... We Americans are assholes...
By the way, two visits to Oz and reading some books does not give us American tossers the right to use the word 'mate'. "I've met some of the nicest people there...or from there"? A little patronizing, don't ya think?
There's nothing quite like being a superior American asshole.... At least I get to do it in a country where people are decent, murders are rare and people in need are not being dumped by taxi drivers, (paid by hospitals) in skid row.
Stop throwing stones. The people here don't care about you. I recommend to any americans that you stop reading and watching your local news. Get yourself on the foreign news services and take a big drink of how much of a laughing stock America is in the real world.
It's genetic... We Americans are assholes...
240
I am proud to be Australian. I embrace our multicultural diversity with open arms. You Americans need to take a good bloody look at yourselves. This whole racism issue surrounding black people stems from the fact that you enslaved these people and now you are feeling guilty about it.
Don't have a go at us because you still feel shameful about your despicable actions of the past. We can hold our heads much higher than you when it comes to the issue of racism. I'll admit that we have had our own issues with Aboriginal people in this country, but we recognise and acknowledge this as a nation, and we are already well on the way to eradicating the actions of our ancestors.
We couldn't give a shit what you think of a skit that was aired on Australian television and was aimed at an Australian audience. We are comfortable with what we saw and we understood the context in which it was meant. You need to get over yourselves. You're just a bunch of self-loving bullies and it is time that you realised that the majority of the rest of the world don't like you and couldn't give a shit about your opinion.
Don't have a go at us because you still feel shameful about your despicable actions of the past. We can hold our heads much higher than you when it comes to the issue of racism. I'll admit that we have had our own issues with Aboriginal people in this country, but we recognise and acknowledge this as a nation, and we are already well on the way to eradicating the actions of our ancestors.
We couldn't give a shit what you think of a skit that was aired on Australian television and was aimed at an Australian audience. We are comfortable with what we saw and we understood the context in which it was meant. You need to get over yourselves. You're just a bunch of self-loving bullies and it is time that you realised that the majority of the rest of the world don't like you and couldn't give a shit about your opinion.
241
As an Australian (white, middle class, 41 years old) I am now starting to undertand why Americans might be offended by that skit. Until I saw Harry's reaction, it didnt even occur to me that there would be a historical racial context to consider!
It seems to me, that Americans offence is based mainly on a guilt and shame of your own racial history, and the connotations that "black-face" represents. Australia is not America.
Given that 99% of Aussies under 40 probably would even know what "black face" of the early 1900s is, let alone seen it performed, you should consider that we saw the act for what it is - A bunch of amateurs parodying a black musical group.
It seems to me, that Americans offence is based mainly on a guilt and shame of your own racial history, and the connotations that "black-face" represents. Australia is not America.
Given that 99% of Aussies under 40 probably would even know what "black face" of the early 1900s is, let alone seen it performed, you should consider that we saw the act for what it is - A bunch of amateurs parodying a black musical group.
242
Australia is a very multicultural country. I teach at a school that is over 70% muslim arabic (many Americans should know why many of these families have fled their homelands).
Although I did find the skit distasteful it was not meant to be racist (many of the guys in the skit are from non anglo backgrounds, the Michael Jackson is from an Indian background).
Australians simply don't understand the significance of the skit as we don't have a country with a history of SLAVERY, RACE RIOTS, the KKK and SEGREGATION. I can totally see how an American would find the skit offensive and I agree with them but most Australians in our blissful ignorance of minstrel shows etc would not understand.
It should not have been on the show, it was in retrospect bad taste but it shouldn't cause Americans to think Australians have any different view to race than themselves. We are one of the most multicultural countries in the world and generally proud of that fact.
Although I did find the skit distasteful it was not meant to be racist (many of the guys in the skit are from non anglo backgrounds, the Michael Jackson is from an Indian background).
Australians simply don't understand the significance of the skit as we don't have a country with a history of SLAVERY, RACE RIOTS, the KKK and SEGREGATION. I can totally see how an American would find the skit offensive and I agree with them but most Australians in our blissful ignorance of minstrel shows etc would not understand.
It should not have been on the show, it was in retrospect bad taste but it shouldn't cause Americans to think Australians have any different view to race than themselves. We are one of the most multicultural countries in the world and generally proud of that fact.
243
Well blow me down, Americans calling Australians racist! I've heard it all now! Now let me get back to my Michael Richards youtube and Mark Twain novel. Oh, and I only use my white sheets to sleep in and have only seen a burning cross at a Madonna concert. But hey, that's Australia for you
245
@220. I wasn't saying only white people can be racist, I was clearly pointing out the fact that as a group these people are of different origins and the odds that they were intent on taking the piss out of another ethnic background is pretty slim. Also the use of the word "nigger" as you put it, is totally not used in this country. And i Laugh at the fact that the only example u can come up with is in the 70's. Go back to your history books and take a little lesson in your own country's need to treat its natives like 2nd class citizens.
@239 good on you for speaking your mind about your own country. Hey we are not all perfect, this has been totally blown out of the water by an underlying need for Americans to put themselves as a higher nation and more forward thinking.
I think as a nation Australia has come a long way with racial discrimination. I am proud to call myself Australian. WE do have a past of neglect for our aboriginals but we are trying to put a foot forward. AS have you too America. We are one of the most mulitculural country in the world.And we are proud of that fact. We as a nation embrace this. Do we need a stupid skit on a tv show that lasted less than 1 min to drag down the reputation of a nation I think not. All you easy to point finger bloggers out there put it into context. Is it worth all this fuss and really get over it.
@239 good on you for speaking your mind about your own country. Hey we are not all perfect, this has been totally blown out of the water by an underlying need for Americans to put themselves as a higher nation and more forward thinking.
I think as a nation Australia has come a long way with racial discrimination. I am proud to call myself Australian. WE do have a past of neglect for our aboriginals but we are trying to put a foot forward. AS have you too America. We are one of the most mulitculural country in the world.And we are proud of that fact. We as a nation embrace this. Do we need a stupid skit on a tv show that lasted less than 1 min to drag down the reputation of a nation I think not. All you easy to point finger bloggers out there put it into context. Is it worth all this fuss and really get over it.
246
@243
don't forget to chow down on the aunt jemimah pancakes and put on your best 'yes boss' the way Rochester did for Jack Benny.
I was in a yacht race in Sydney. The American boat with the typical square jawed captain won the race. They had one African American crew member. In the celebrations, the AA sat at the front of the boat! I'd have said they had come a long way, but for the fact that the white crew were all at the back of the boat.
I agree with the guy who said that American's should get an unbiased, propaganda free, perspective on how the world perceives them.
Here's to the country that named their first black action hero, "Shaft".... as in what they do to anyone who is not in agreement with them.
Some say we are racist. I don't see it. We are more discerning. My neighbours are Chinese on one side and indian on the other. They think americans are jerks too.
don't forget to chow down on the aunt jemimah pancakes and put on your best 'yes boss' the way Rochester did for Jack Benny.
I was in a yacht race in Sydney. The American boat with the typical square jawed captain won the race. They had one African American crew member. In the celebrations, the AA sat at the front of the boat! I'd have said they had come a long way, but for the fact that the white crew were all at the back of the boat.
I agree with the guy who said that American's should get an unbiased, propaganda free, perspective on how the world perceives them.
Here's to the country that named their first black action hero, "Shaft".... as in what they do to anyone who is not in agreement with them.
Some say we are racist. I don't see it. We are more discerning. My neighbours are Chinese on one side and indian on the other. They think americans are jerks too.
247
Australia is made up of many different cultures from lots of different countries and everyone falls into a group which has a nickname. Like wog, dago, pom, slope, gypo, septic, bonga, kiwi, paddy, etc,etc. Its ok to address people by their nickname according to their appearance or accent because thats normal. If four african guys painted their faces white and sang and danced like the bee gees that would be funny, not racist. People are very sensitive and touchy about their race in others countries because they're not used to it. The rest of the world should take a leaf out of Australias book and have a laugh. From a pommy frog ocker.
248
I enjoyed watching the Red Face act. I enjoyed the sense of fun in it. I enjoyed watching the audience link with the performers singing the Jackson song
Being human, with all our fears etc, we all have racist elements within us.
Also we have a sense of humour. Humour often protrays the darkest elements of human beings. It also often provides insight.
So enjoy but also learn
Emin
Being human, with all our fears etc, we all have racist elements within us.
Also we have a sense of humour. Humour often protrays the darkest elements of human beings. It also often provides insight.
So enjoy but also learn
Emin
249
Today at my apparently supremely racist and idiotic Australian school I asked where was the Klu Klux Klan first established?
Who was it who lynched thousands of freed black men and woman?
Oppressed black people for god knows how many years?
Where is it that groups such as the KKK still predominantely operate today?
I think she said America. But I probably misheard. I am sure that our entirely innocent American blogger here would never dream of being so blatantly hypocritical by condemning Australians.
I dont deny that this act was lame, unfunny and distasteful.
However, considering that he saw fit to generalise Australians 'Racist Idiots' for a two minute act on a variety show I would be interested to know what mr Schmader would label his own countrymen and women?
Seems to me that mr Schmader might be a little racist himself.
Who was it who lynched thousands of freed black men and woman?
Oppressed black people for god knows how many years?
Where is it that groups such as the KKK still predominantely operate today?
I think she said America. But I probably misheard. I am sure that our entirely innocent American blogger here would never dream of being so blatantly hypocritical by condemning Australians.
I dont deny that this act was lame, unfunny and distasteful.
However, considering that he saw fit to generalise Australians 'Racist Idiots' for a two minute act on a variety show I would be interested to know what mr Schmader would label his own countrymen and women?
Seems to me that mr Schmader might be a little racist himself.
250
THAT is not racism, those offended by the act are the ones who are racist. For the average Joe, it is funny - to see a white man dress up as a black man - the same would be true for the opposite. I believe, my generation see no difference between white or black. And for one to act as the other in the given circumstance - it is comedic. Where is the uproar about MJ's pedophilia jokes? that shit is surely more offensive to these soft cocks? isn't it?
-=MITSKY=-
Fuck it, it's all done in humor. Take a joke you fuckin retards.
By being offended I believe your admitting your own racist thoughts ... think about it?
-=MITSKY=-
Fuck it, it's all done in humor. Take a joke you fuckin retards.
By being offended I believe your admitting your own racist thoughts ... think about it?
251
"Klu Klux Klan first established? "
Did you ask them if Paula Hanson was just a fish and chips shop owner?
Did you ask them if Paula Hanson was just a fish and chips shop owner?
252
I think what the American commentators on this site need to understand about this issue is that it beggars belief from an Australian perspective that your comments are given without a hint of self reflection or acknowledgement of your own misgivings as a country in this regard.
Do you seriously want to put up this unfunny TV skit, the issue of the stolen generation and the recent attacks on Indian students against the breadth and depth of race related issues in the states and your foreign policy in recent decades? I mean seriously - Abu Ghraib, Katrina and the LA riots just to name a few.
Having lived in the states for a couple of years I found most of the people I met during my time there to be lovely, genuinely warm people but with very little understanding of global events or cultures outside of what is covered in the mainstream media (and even then, a distorted view). When it comes to Australia, the tired old stereotypes were trotted out on cue without a hint of awareness that they might actually be patronising or offensive.
Racism has been evident in every country I've ever visited and to attach it in a singular way to Australia is flat out ignorant. I freely acknowledge we have many issues to fix with regards to race, but the lack of humility and self-awareness from the American point of view on this site comes across quite strongly to this reader.
Do you seriously want to put up this unfunny TV skit, the issue of the stolen generation and the recent attacks on Indian students against the breadth and depth of race related issues in the states and your foreign policy in recent decades? I mean seriously - Abu Ghraib, Katrina and the LA riots just to name a few.
Having lived in the states for a couple of years I found most of the people I met during my time there to be lovely, genuinely warm people but with very little understanding of global events or cultures outside of what is covered in the mainstream media (and even then, a distorted view). When it comes to Australia, the tired old stereotypes were trotted out on cue without a hint of awareness that they might actually be patronising or offensive.
Racism has been evident in every country I've ever visited and to attach it in a singular way to Australia is flat out ignorant. I freely acknowledge we have many issues to fix with regards to race, but the lack of humility and self-awareness from the American point of view on this site comes across quite strongly to this reader.
253
Oh yeah, we Americans just have noooooooo sense of humor. Like the last time I was in Australia (4th trip) with my 3rd generation Asian American wife (of Korean and Chinese roots) and not once, not twice, not 3 times, but at least half a dozen times Aussies asked her is she was a 'Jap' or a 'Jappo'.
It was so funny! Wooo hooo, we thought, these Aussies sure are knee slappers.
We just had to laugh because you know, that kind of ignorance only comes along once in a lifetime.
It was so funny! Wooo hooo, we thought, these Aussies sure are knee slappers.
We just had to laugh because you know, that kind of ignorance only comes along once in a lifetime.
254
@251 pauline hanson.
and the comments not aimed at the general American population.
Just the hypocrytical Schmeader whose generalisation of Australians was totally uncalled for.
and the comments not aimed at the general American population.
Just the hypocrytical Schmeader whose generalisation of Australians was totally uncalled for.
255
"Never assume malice when ignorance will suffice."
I really do think that the performers, the producers, and the host didn't intend to give grievous offense. They just didn't get that because of the history of blackface and minstrel shows in America, such depictions are in fact offensive to many Americans.
I really do think that the performers, the producers, and the host didn't intend to give grievous offense. They just didn't get that because of the history of blackface and minstrel shows in America, such depictions are in fact offensive to many Americans.
257
"so its only ok for a white to parody a white, black to black, same to same"
No, no one's saying that. It's the long and sordid history of minstrels and blackface, in the context of racist history in the US, which make it so offensive today. It's the ignorance of that history that is so shocking. Maybe you should read up on the history of blackface in the 20s in America and the god awful racist conditions out of which it grew. It would be like an American TV show doing a 'Black and White Abo Show'.
No, no one's saying that. It's the long and sordid history of minstrels and blackface, in the context of racist history in the US, which make it so offensive today. It's the ignorance of that history that is so shocking. Maybe you should read up on the history of blackface in the 20s in America and the god awful racist conditions out of which it grew. It would be like an American TV show doing a 'Black and White Abo Show'.
258
Moan Moan Bloody Moan, Self righteous bloody yanks. You claim to hold the moral high ground on just about everything don't you. Look at the performers in this skit and two were indian and one was from Lebanon. Racist,.. maybe ,.. Idiotic in current terms,. probably.. In good taste, most likely not... Any intention to cause offense,.. no. Did It cause offense, yes. To Harry Connick. It offended his US derived sensibilities.
US Derived. Putting his value system upon others. much like the US manufactured GFC.
So when you stop being a bunch of hypocrites spending cash you don't have, firebombing afghani wedding parties and generally atrocitying wherever you go then setting up a McDonalds, then you lot can criticize us. As far as I can see its just another attempt for you bloody lot to pidgeon hole us because actually thinking about who we are strain your collective four braincells. After all you voted for bush, not once but twice.
Nuff said really isn't it?
and as for the indigenous debate. I can tell you from personal and familial experience they get everything with a silver bloody spoon and have absolutely no thought as to where that handout has come from. My tax dollars. And any yank who moans about this I say to them, "so you are telling me that I shouldn't be angry when my tax dollars are being wasted?"
Lets Look at Iraq and your 6 trillion dollar national debt, THAT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN WILL WORK THEIR LIVES PAYING FOR!
BTW a relative was a stolen generations member. Died recently a Multimillionaire pastorlaist (farmer to you illiterate yank types). He thanked God on high for being taken. Said he got a chance to be raised well and given a shot like anyone else at life. Can any of you say the same?
US Derived. Putting his value system upon others. much like the US manufactured GFC.
So when you stop being a bunch of hypocrites spending cash you don't have, firebombing afghani wedding parties and generally atrocitying wherever you go then setting up a McDonalds, then you lot can criticize us. As far as I can see its just another attempt for you bloody lot to pidgeon hole us because actually thinking about who we are strain your collective four braincells. After all you voted for bush, not once but twice.
Nuff said really isn't it?
and as for the indigenous debate. I can tell you from personal and familial experience they get everything with a silver bloody spoon and have absolutely no thought as to where that handout has come from. My tax dollars. And any yank who moans about this I say to them, "so you are telling me that I shouldn't be angry when my tax dollars are being wasted?"
Lets Look at Iraq and your 6 trillion dollar national debt, THAT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN WILL WORK THEIR LIVES PAYING FOR!
BTW a relative was a stolen generations member. Died recently a Multimillionaire pastorlaist (farmer to you illiterate yank types). He thanked God on high for being taken. Said he got a chance to be raised well and given a shot like anyone else at life. Can any of you say the same?
261
"After all you voted for bush, not once but twice."
yeah, and you got Howard twice. It was all you could do not to vote the former fish and chips shop owner in I guess.
Boy, you Aussies sure don't like being criticized do you? I guess it's not all fair dinkums when it's your turn to be called out.
yeah, and you got Howard twice. It was all you could do not to vote the former fish and chips shop owner in I guess.
Boy, you Aussies sure don't like being criticized do you? I guess it's not all fair dinkums when it's your turn to be called out.
262
"they get everything with a silver bloody spoon and have absolutely no thought as to where that handout has come from"
Yeah, we have the same problem here in America with our coons that you get with your abos.
Yeah, we have the same problem here in America with our coons that you get with your abos.
263
Oh and interesting selection of 'presumably aust' comments via YouTube, very vast range of opinions displayed, nicely represented..
264
Hi Mr Schmader,
I'm an Australian.
To quote your above article, "Every one of the comments on my post has seconded Connick's horror, with some noting the old-school racism that still pervades Australia as a whole."
Whilst referring to the 3rd party comments you've then followed on by making a sweeping assumption that Australia as a whole is racist. As its impossible, as far as I know, for a land mass to be capable of racism, I'm going to assume you are referring to Australians as a race.
You have made a derogatory remark based on the opinions of four anonymous persons and applied it to a race of which I am a member. You have not applied it in context of my racial history or provided any reason for your accusation of racism other than a 9 minute TV segment and four youtube comments.
I am not going to demand an apology or ammendment, however I will request a response providing justification or at least explanation of your published statement. If you decide not to do so that is fair enough, but I will pursue it further with "thestranger" to determine if this is in fact the unfounded racial slur against my nations people that it appears to be, or simply an over excited author trying to drum up interest in his article who threw down a sentence that was out of his weight category.
Let me be blunt Mr Schnaeder, Americans do not have a monopoly on "Throwing down the Race Card" and if you want to step into that arena I'd suggest getting your own affairs in order first. They may have been 6 middle aged men cavorting on national TV in a well meaning but ill advised skit, but you sir have published, under your own name, a direct and deliberate slur against the people of my race. You may have noticed whilst many of my countrymen will debate vigorously with you on the topic, they will not throw down "the card" as I have just done. I hope that by responding to you in this more Americanised manner, that you may develop an appreciation that societies outside of your own handle the topic of racism differently.
I would even go so far as suggesting that whilst your search for a post race miracle human may be facetious, hopefully I have demonstrated my country employs a more open dialogue towards it societal taboos than you may personally be comfortable with. I make an assumption here and I appologise for it, but is it possible that the discomfort you're feeling and have eloquently attempted to prase as "racist idiots" may stem from the fact that instead of going into hiding after the playing of the race card, my countrymen instead have attempted to seek a dialogue on the topic? I understand that this may be a different approach to how such matters would be handled in your own country, but I still object to my race being considered racist for attempting to begin dialogue with you over your issue.
The true irony of this situation sir, is that of all the comments you may have selected, none of the four contain a slur as derogatory as the one you yourself explicitly made against my own race.
I await your response.
More...
I'm an Australian.
To quote your above article, "Every one of the comments on my post has seconded Connick's horror, with some noting the old-school racism that still pervades Australia as a whole."
Whilst referring to the 3rd party comments you've then followed on by making a sweeping assumption that Australia as a whole is racist. As its impossible, as far as I know, for a land mass to be capable of racism, I'm going to assume you are referring to Australians as a race.
You have made a derogatory remark based on the opinions of four anonymous persons and applied it to a race of which I am a member. You have not applied it in context of my racial history or provided any reason for your accusation of racism other than a 9 minute TV segment and four youtube comments.
I am not going to demand an apology or ammendment, however I will request a response providing justification or at least explanation of your published statement. If you decide not to do so that is fair enough, but I will pursue it further with "thestranger" to determine if this is in fact the unfounded racial slur against my nations people that it appears to be, or simply an over excited author trying to drum up interest in his article who threw down a sentence that was out of his weight category.
Let me be blunt Mr Schnaeder, Americans do not have a monopoly on "Throwing down the Race Card" and if you want to step into that arena I'd suggest getting your own affairs in order first. They may have been 6 middle aged men cavorting on national TV in a well meaning but ill advised skit, but you sir have published, under your own name, a direct and deliberate slur against the people of my race. You may have noticed whilst many of my countrymen will debate vigorously with you on the topic, they will not throw down "the card" as I have just done. I hope that by responding to you in this more Americanised manner, that you may develop an appreciation that societies outside of your own handle the topic of racism differently.
I would even go so far as suggesting that whilst your search for a post race miracle human may be facetious, hopefully I have demonstrated my country employs a more open dialogue towards it societal taboos than you may personally be comfortable with. I make an assumption here and I appologise for it, but is it possible that the discomfort you're feeling and have eloquently attempted to prase as "racist idiots" may stem from the fact that instead of going into hiding after the playing of the race card, my countrymen instead have attempted to seek a dialogue on the topic? I understand that this may be a different approach to how such matters would be handled in your own country, but I still object to my race being considered racist for attempting to begin dialogue with you over your issue.
The true irony of this situation sir, is that of all the comments you may have selected, none of the four contain a slur as derogatory as the one you yourself explicitly made against my own race.
I await your response.
265
"I'm going to assume you are referring to Australians as a race."
Which Australians, the natives or the colonizers who stole the land?
Which Australians, the natives or the colonizers who stole the land?
266
"And any yank who moans about this I say to them, "so you are telling me that I shouldn't be angry when my tax dollars are being wasted?"
Hey, I hear you my friend. I too hate it when they give my tax dollars to pakis, wogs and abos.
Hey, I hear you my friend. I too hate it when they give my tax dollars to pakis, wogs and abos.
267
Dave Armstrong: I never called Australians racist idiots. I answered a question with two ludicrously exaggerated possibilities. (Post-race miracle humans or racist idiots?) I'm sure the truth is somewhere between those two cartoonish poles.
268
Ian and B.A.,.. I'll assume your self loathing white men. I blame Derrida. made europeans hate themselves and then spread that hate to the rest of the eurosphere IE anywhere which has whitey involved in the joint.
My comment about tax dollars being wasted on handouts that get spent on drugs or booze meets with your dissaproval?
Let me ask this - You ever taught indigenous kids from broken homes where alcohol fuelled violence is key factors one and two in the low high school retention rates of indigenous students? Let alone passing score rates?
No, unsurprising.. WELL I BLOODY HAVE! Its not the fact they get free cash that's the problem. They get free cash and either don't know what to do with it or even more sinisterly, KNOW what should do with it and then do what they like...
We try to salve our supposed "guilt" of colonisation by handing them over cash. Well newsflash it's not working. And any attempt to reverse this cashflow or make the cashflow accountable is immediately decried as racist.... I mean how horribly racist to demand that some sort of accountability for the welfare payments they get given if those fortunately few hardcore indiviudals choose to abuse the system. If you saw a white guy wino on the street you'd be content to let him piss his life up the wall if you had the means to help? No? well just change skin tones then. So ready to care now? I know I am because a persons skin tone is like a wrapper.. whats inside really counts. And that's why this intervention deal makes sense.
Want the free cash? a very simple setup and set of standards to meet it,.. doubt you would disagree with them.
And for the record I am Half italian, so yes I am proud to be a "wog" as you put it Ian Smith.
Rome was responsible for European culture and by extension the US so i'll wear that with pride. i can call myself Wog Ian,.. I'll assume you're not italian or european so You do not get to. So stop using it. Besides its a small word used by small people to establish some sort of negative connotation where none exists.
As for the "paki's" bit I'll assume your talking about the Indian student situation in Melbourne. Detestable. The actions of a few gutter members of some rough suburbs taking advantage of a new ethnic group trying to find its place in Australia. If i was in Australia I'd be doing what i could to help , where I could. Having lived where the attacks occurred and a being a former nightclub bouncer and bodyguard. All the students are guilty of is being noticeable by their relative conspicuous wealth for the area, which in of itself is no more a crime beyond a lack of knowledge. Never make yourself a target and some of these guys and girls when i was there would through no act deliberate would make themselves a target. For all we are multicultural, australia can be a homogenous society. Difference is noted. Ostentatious wealthy difference especially so.
So my yank friends who we'll be buyingt the entire F-22 programme off when you go belly up, have a nice day. BTW how much for a few of your SSBN's We have a trade partner who might get upptiy soon. never know when you new owners the PRC might need a dressing down. Did it to them once in Korea (battle of Kapyong- look it up) can do it again.
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My comment about tax dollars being wasted on handouts that get spent on drugs or booze meets with your dissaproval?
Let me ask this - You ever taught indigenous kids from broken homes where alcohol fuelled violence is key factors one and two in the low high school retention rates of indigenous students? Let alone passing score rates?
No, unsurprising.. WELL I BLOODY HAVE! Its not the fact they get free cash that's the problem. They get free cash and either don't know what to do with it or even more sinisterly, KNOW what should do with it and then do what they like...
We try to salve our supposed "guilt" of colonisation by handing them over cash. Well newsflash it's not working. And any attempt to reverse this cashflow or make the cashflow accountable is immediately decried as racist.... I mean how horribly racist to demand that some sort of accountability for the welfare payments they get given if those fortunately few hardcore indiviudals choose to abuse the system. If you saw a white guy wino on the street you'd be content to let him piss his life up the wall if you had the means to help? No? well just change skin tones then. So ready to care now? I know I am because a persons skin tone is like a wrapper.. whats inside really counts. And that's why this intervention deal makes sense.
Want the free cash? a very simple setup and set of standards to meet it,.. doubt you would disagree with them.
And for the record I am Half italian, so yes I am proud to be a "wog" as you put it Ian Smith.
Rome was responsible for European culture and by extension the US so i'll wear that with pride. i can call myself Wog Ian,.. I'll assume you're not italian or european so You do not get to. So stop using it. Besides its a small word used by small people to establish some sort of negative connotation where none exists.
As for the "paki's" bit I'll assume your talking about the Indian student situation in Melbourne. Detestable. The actions of a few gutter members of some rough suburbs taking advantage of a new ethnic group trying to find its place in Australia. If i was in Australia I'd be doing what i could to help , where I could. Having lived where the attacks occurred and a being a former nightclub bouncer and bodyguard. All the students are guilty of is being noticeable by their relative conspicuous wealth for the area, which in of itself is no more a crime beyond a lack of knowledge. Never make yourself a target and some of these guys and girls when i was there would through no act deliberate would make themselves a target. For all we are multicultural, australia can be a homogenous society. Difference is noted. Ostentatious wealthy difference especially so.
So my yank friends who we'll be buyingt the entire F-22 programme off when you go belly up, have a nice day. BTW how much for a few of your SSBN's We have a trade partner who might get upptiy soon. never know when you new owners the PRC might need a dressing down. Did it to them once in Korea (battle of Kapyong- look it up) can do it again.
270
@265
Hi Roger,
Sory for the long post, you mightn't have made it to the point as it was towards the end.
In regards to your question I guess all I can really say is you're the one who's trying to segregate us. My dad was an immigrant, my g/f was born in Singapore, and my boss has a Zimbabwean accent. But we're all citizens of Australia. Race is defined as "A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution"
Enough technicalities. Summing up, segregating myself from an Aboriginal is coming out of your camp. (Btw "The Natives" is really truly demeaning way to refer to someone around here, now you know, please dont do it again.) I'm guessing your Q is derived from one of three things, either:
Your using a different definition of race, one based more on physical characteristics in which case we're both the richer for this discusion, as we've learnt different people consider race differently, yay!
You're one of those folks that're under the impression that the basis of good arguement is to go off on a completely irrelevant tangent and pick holes in a problem they themself created... had a GF like that once, it didn't work out, but it was worth hanging around at times just for the truly surreal arguements.
or
your trolling for reactions in which case jokes on me!
I truthfully hope its the first option, we both deserve to be better people for our dialogue.
Have a Good One!
Hi Roger,
Sory for the long post, you mightn't have made it to the point as it was towards the end.
In regards to your question I guess all I can really say is you're the one who's trying to segregate us. My dad was an immigrant, my g/f was born in Singapore, and my boss has a Zimbabwean accent. But we're all citizens of Australia. Race is defined as "A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution"
Enough technicalities. Summing up, segregating myself from an Aboriginal is coming out of your camp. (Btw "The Natives" is really truly demeaning way to refer to someone around here, now you know, please dont do it again.) I'm guessing your Q is derived from one of three things, either:
Your using a different definition of race, one based more on physical characteristics in which case we're both the richer for this discusion, as we've learnt different people consider race differently, yay!
You're one of those folks that're under the impression that the basis of good arguement is to go off on a completely irrelevant tangent and pick holes in a problem they themself created... had a GF like that once, it didn't work out, but it was worth hanging around at times just for the truly surreal arguements.
or
your trolling for reactions in which case jokes on me!
I truthfully hope its the first option, we both deserve to be better people for our dialogue.
Have a Good One!
271
"So when you stop being a bunch of hypocrites spending cash you don't have, firebombing afghani wedding parties "
I'm sorry, didn't Australia enthusiastically join in Bush's wars, with their twice elected John Howard leading the way with his lips locked firmly on Bush's balls?
Now, I know you Aussies have always loved having your lips wrapped around the cocks of your foreign heads of state in the House of Windsor, but how did it taste to swallow all that Texas lovin'?
I'm sorry, didn't Australia enthusiastically join in Bush's wars, with their twice elected John Howard leading the way with his lips locked firmly on Bush's balls?
Now, I know you Aussies have always loved having your lips wrapped around the cocks of your foreign heads of state in the House of Windsor, but how did it taste to swallow all that Texas lovin'?
272
""The Natives" is really truly demeaning way to refer to someone around here, now you know, please dont do it again"
I know, sorry, I'll used the preferred Australian nomenclature: Abos
I know, sorry, I'll used the preferred Australian nomenclature: Abos
273
Hi Mr Schmader,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry for the confusion, I must have misunderstood your lighthearted cartoonish portayal of my race as a racial slur. My apologies for misinterpreting the boundaries of your cultures sense of humour as a racial attack and coming down on you and playing the race card, after all, you never had any ill meaning and thats what really matters.
I kinda defeated the point of this article in the first place, but I reckon I'll check in every now and then out of morbid curiousity.
Thanks for your time.
Thanks for your reply. Sorry for the confusion, I must have misunderstood your lighthearted cartoonish portayal of my race as a racial slur. My apologies for misinterpreting the boundaries of your cultures sense of humour as a racial attack and coming down on you and playing the race card, after all, you never had any ill meaning and thats what really matters.
I kinda defeated the point of this article in the first place, but I reckon I'll check in every now and then out of morbid curiousity.
Thanks for your time.
274
To think how many "idiot Yanks" died in WWII to keep Australia white.
Posted by Should have left them to the tender mercies of the Japanese on October 8, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Sorry you feel that way. make no mistake I could grouse how we were fighting them for years before you came long, and we'd been stripped of our promised defences by Churchill and Roosevelt saying Europe had precedence, but when you got thumped by Japanese at Pearl, by oath you guys were quick. Thank god your carriers were out and they missed your Fuel tanks at Pearl, or else you too would be writing your posts in Japanese,.. assuming they had net connections in forced labor camps.
Slighty sarcastic points of humor aside. It is undeniable the thanks we owe you for helping out when you did. That you then charged onto Tokyo and asked our troops do all the dangerous yet useless mopping up in places like Borneo is forgotten. And we do not measure our losses in teaspoons. After all it was uranium from Queensland that was in those A Bombs. My comments about various economic aspects and advantage pale when compared to the things we have achieved together and how similar we are. that you do not really understand us or our culture is not our fault however.
We are a harsh people by dint of our nation and terrain. it is not a country that suffers the foolish, the proud or the overt intellectual forcing views upon us. What may be seen as totally acceptable or even unacceptable in the states may be seen differently here. Accept that. Attempts to "enlighten" us will only backfire.
was that skit idiotic yes. was that skit meant to harm, doubtful. has criticism of it from the USA been unfair and possibly one sided. yes. has the resultant Australian reaction been ballistically angry. Yes
One again we see ourselves being judged harshly by a nation that sits self appointed in judgment over others, yet refuses to take criticism or ignores criticism of itself?
We KNOW we have problems. We ARE trying to fix them. IT IS difficult.
A persons skin isn't so much the issue in Australia, its the quality of their character that defines.
More...
Posted by Should have left them to the tender mercies of the Japanese on October 8, 2009 at 10:07 AM
Sorry you feel that way. make no mistake I could grouse how we were fighting them for years before you came long, and we'd been stripped of our promised defences by Churchill and Roosevelt saying Europe had precedence, but when you got thumped by Japanese at Pearl, by oath you guys were quick. Thank god your carriers were out and they missed your Fuel tanks at Pearl, or else you too would be writing your posts in Japanese,.. assuming they had net connections in forced labor camps.
Slighty sarcastic points of humor aside. It is undeniable the thanks we owe you for helping out when you did. That you then charged onto Tokyo and asked our troops do all the dangerous yet useless mopping up in places like Borneo is forgotten. And we do not measure our losses in teaspoons. After all it was uranium from Queensland that was in those A Bombs. My comments about various economic aspects and advantage pale when compared to the things we have achieved together and how similar we are. that you do not really understand us or our culture is not our fault however.
We are a harsh people by dint of our nation and terrain. it is not a country that suffers the foolish, the proud or the overt intellectual forcing views upon us. What may be seen as totally acceptable or even unacceptable in the states may be seen differently here. Accept that. Attempts to "enlighten" us will only backfire.
was that skit idiotic yes. was that skit meant to harm, doubtful. has criticism of it from the USA been unfair and possibly one sided. yes. has the resultant Australian reaction been ballistically angry. Yes
One again we see ourselves being judged harshly by a nation that sits self appointed in judgment over others, yet refuses to take criticism or ignores criticism of itself?
We KNOW we have problems. We ARE trying to fix them. IT IS difficult.
A persons skin isn't so much the issue in Australia, its the quality of their character that defines.
275
"your lips wrapped around the cocks of your foreign heads of state in the House of Windsor"
I thought that was Dame Edna I saw on the Aussie dollar?
I thought that was Dame Edna I saw on the Aussie dollar?
276
You can forgive Bush for using the Aussies in Iraq and Afghanistan as cannon fodder, afterall he knew from his history - Gallipoli - that Aussies are more than willing to die to be your friend.
277
Posted by Billy Boy - Not gonna repeat it.
Ohh bet you are a real charmer with the ladies at the country club with talk like that.
Class act you are. I'm sorry did you say what finishing school you went to for that line?
Money back from them yet?
Ohh bet you are a real charmer with the ladies at the country club with talk like that.
Class act you are. I'm sorry did you say what finishing school you went to for that line?
Money back from them yet?
278
I really should leave well enough alone, but your such a delightful little troll billy boy... you must really hate all of us Aussies! Way to show us who the real racists are by using that incredibly derogatory language to refer to Aboriginals. Someone's been zinged!
280
Schmader - I've got to say as a long-time Slog reader and Aussie, I was also pretty offended to see your comment on "the old-school racism that still pervades Australia as a whole".
There have been a few Aussies in here agreeing, but a damn good amount standing up for our country (which is, statistically, one of the most diverse). There is racism to be found, but I don't think you've a good basis to think it pervades our country any more than yours. As with many of the Australian commenters above (a number of whom, it appears, are aboriginal or have immigrated from foreign countries) I have always found Australia to be one of the most open-minded and accepting places. I have lived in quite a few different countries since, and currently live in the USA.
Admittedly, I'm biased because I'm Australian. A key factor in this argument is the 'laid-back' Australian culture - a few people in these comments who have lived in Australia or visited Australia have expressed disdain for how we don't take things seriously. This is something I hope that Australia as a nation never disconnects with. A country's culture is something to be proud of, and ours is not one that advocates racism; rather, we 'call a spade a spade' as much as possible. Many Aussies have no qualms asking an Asian (to use the example one shocked commenter above used), "are you a Jap?" (I personally wouldn't but I was raised w/a more British style of manners). There is no meanness behind this, no degradation in the way it's said, it's more like a kid asking the same question, and, like children, it doesn't make a lick of difference what the answer is. We don't see what's wrong with it... if anything, to assign meaning to it, to claim that it's something you 'just can't say' would be to act as though there is something wrong with that person being foreign.
We're well known for our support of 'underdog' figures (people who are, as you would say 'down and out', or those who do not get a lot of luck) and belief that everyone should have a 'fair go'. Take for example, one of Victoria's historical legends: Ned Kelley, who was a second-class citizen turned outlaw.
We're not perfect, far from it. There is a lot to be addressed, and a lot more we can do to promote equality. A lot has been done, though, and as a country we try our best to make people of all nations feel welcome. There are exceptions, and examples of horrible racism, but the exceptions don't make up any country. America has people who want to build a fence to keep Mexicans out, for christ's sake - but I know from experience that's not a reflection on the attitudes of Americans in general.
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There have been a few Aussies in here agreeing, but a damn good amount standing up for our country (which is, statistically, one of the most diverse). There is racism to be found, but I don't think you've a good basis to think it pervades our country any more than yours. As with many of the Australian commenters above (a number of whom, it appears, are aboriginal or have immigrated from foreign countries) I have always found Australia to be one of the most open-minded and accepting places. I have lived in quite a few different countries since, and currently live in the USA.
Admittedly, I'm biased because I'm Australian. A key factor in this argument is the 'laid-back' Australian culture - a few people in these comments who have lived in Australia or visited Australia have expressed disdain for how we don't take things seriously. This is something I hope that Australia as a nation never disconnects with. A country's culture is something to be proud of, and ours is not one that advocates racism; rather, we 'call a spade a spade' as much as possible. Many Aussies have no qualms asking an Asian (to use the example one shocked commenter above used), "are you a Jap?" (I personally wouldn't but I was raised w/a more British style of manners). There is no meanness behind this, no degradation in the way it's said, it's more like a kid asking the same question, and, like children, it doesn't make a lick of difference what the answer is. We don't see what's wrong with it... if anything, to assign meaning to it, to claim that it's something you 'just can't say' would be to act as though there is something wrong with that person being foreign.
We're well known for our support of 'underdog' figures (people who are, as you would say 'down and out', or those who do not get a lot of luck) and belief that everyone should have a 'fair go'. Take for example, one of Victoria's historical legends: Ned Kelley, who was a second-class citizen turned outlaw.
We're not perfect, far from it. There is a lot to be addressed, and a lot more we can do to promote equality. A lot has been done, though, and as a country we try our best to make people of all nations feel welcome. There are exceptions, and examples of horrible racism, but the exceptions don't make up any country. America has people who want to build a fence to keep Mexicans out, for christ's sake - but I know from experience that's not a reflection on the attitudes of Americans in general.
281
"A persons skin isn't so much the issue in Australia, its the quality of their character that defines."
Tell that to Mulrunji Doomadge, murdered by a cop , acquitted by an all-white jury. Sure sounds like the USA; only difference is our head of state isn't going to be Camilla Parker Bowles and family.
Tell that to Mulrunji Doomadge, murdered by a cop , acquitted by an all-white jury. Sure sounds like the USA; only difference is our head of state isn't going to be Camilla Parker Bowles and family.
282
"Ohh bet you are a real charmer with the ladies at the country club with talk like that."
Sure am!.... and whenever I find some Aussie Sheila floating around it's more than easy to feed her some American cock, afterall, isn't that what Australians like to do with their true daddies?
Sure am!.... and whenever I find some Aussie Sheila floating around it's more than easy to feed her some American cock, afterall, isn't that what Australians like to do with their true daddies?
283
While waiting to finalise their Australian residental status, two Afghanistani men start chatting. As they part, they agree to meet in a years time and see who has adapted better to the Australian way of life.
True to their word, they meet after the year is up. The first says to the second "We have integrated so well...yesterday, I ate a meat pie and drank a VB while watching my son play Aussie rules"
The second man replies "F**k off, towelhead"
True to their word, they meet after the year is up. The first says to the second "We have integrated so well...yesterday, I ate a meat pie and drank a VB while watching my son play Aussie rules"
The second man replies "F**k off, towelhead"
284
Are all Australians racist? No. Are all Australians morons? No.
Just the ones posting in this thread (with a couple of exceptions, Aussie Steve, cozmic_avenger). I haven't seen so many mouthbreathing idiots in one place since I don't know when.
Here's a free clue: "I am not a racist" is a racist statement.
Just the ones posting in this thread (with a couple of exceptions, Aussie Steve, cozmic_avenger). I haven't seen so many mouthbreathing idiots in one place since I don't know when.
Here's a free clue: "I am not a racist" is a racist statement.
285
Billy Boy sad little troll. I see beyond your bait.. All you needs is a hug,.. Come here you little internet troll,.. There there its all better the fact you have no life right now is fine,..Now you go on, run along, ,.. get...,.. go find that life of yours you misplaced somewhere...Must be out there somewhere Billy
286
" I see beyond your bait"
Of course you do, you're Australian, you don't even live in an independent country. You have to get a bunch of German Hanovers from the House of Windsor to even open your parliament.
You can't eat bait; you have to be spoon fed.
Of course you do, you're Australian, you don't even live in an independent country. You have to get a bunch of German Hanovers from the House of Windsor to even open your parliament.
You can't eat bait; you have to be spoon fed.
288
@286
Maybe would have been worth putting "not to be racist, but" in front of all three of those sentences. Least then you wouldn't seem like quite so much of an arrogant prick.
Maybe would have been worth putting "not to be racist, but" in front of all three of those sentences. Least then you wouldn't seem like quite so much of an arrogant prick.
289
""The Natives" is really truly demeaning way to refer to someone around here, now you know, please dont do it again"
But dressing up in black face is a-ok!
But dressing up in black face is a-ok!
290
"as for the indigenous debate. I can tell you from personal and familial experience they get everything with a silver bloody spoon and have absolutely no thought as to where that handout has come from. My tax dollars."
Bloody lazy, shiftless abos taking your hard earned money Stevo! Why do they think you owe 'em anything mate?
We have the same problem here in America.
Bloody lazy, shiftless abos taking your hard earned money Stevo! Why do they think you owe 'em anything mate?
We have the same problem here in America.
291
Australians - Racist idiots? Wow, what journalism. The slog has such amazing stories that I won't even waste my time reading them. I only came to the blog to vote for a worthy cause from a friends recommendation. As an Australian living in the US, I could not help noticing the australian article and my interest was perked. Reading some of the comments on this article, you might want to re-assess your position since all I am seeing are nasty comments from rascist Americans. And yes, this country has definitely not moved away from its rich racist past. It might be time to do some self assessing America before you point the finger at a multi-culturally diverse (and accepting) country like Australia! You could definitely learn from us!
292
"multi-culturally diverse (and accepting) country like Australia"
Tell that to Mulrunji Doomadge. Tell that to 'Lebs' (Lebanese) attacked on Cronulla Beach, in Sydney. This wasn't some redneck, outback town where cops can kill 'abos' and get away with it, but right there in your largest, most 'tolerant' city.
Harry has every right to callout this black face minstrel show for what it is: racist. Why are all you Aussies so sensitive to a little criticism? Get out from under the Queen's skirt and grow a pair.
"Ozzie, Ozzie, Ozzie, Oi, Oi, Oi"
Tell that to Mulrunji Doomadge. Tell that to 'Lebs' (Lebanese) attacked on Cronulla Beach, in Sydney. This wasn't some redneck, outback town where cops can kill 'abos' and get away with it, but right there in your largest, most 'tolerant' city.
Harry has every right to callout this black face minstrel show for what it is: racist. Why are all you Aussies so sensitive to a little criticism? Get out from under the Queen's skirt and grow a pair.
"Ozzie, Ozzie, Ozzie, Oi, Oi, Oi"
293
While I understand the offence I refuse to jump on the bandwagon and scream about white racism towards blacks while black "civil rights" and "religious" leaders often talk about gays, jews, asains the same was the KKK talked about them.. and get a free pass. Some of the loudest cries about this will be from blacks who have been apologists for Louis FarraKKKhan and Jerimiah Wright. And lets not forget Jesse Jackson's career wasn't hurt by calling Obama a N-gger and saying he was gonna cut his nuts off. I'm sick of entertainers like these or Michael Richards having their careers destroyed for doing the same thing that black civil rights leaders and entertainers are quickly forgiven for. Nope.
Btw, re the conflcits btw whites and Lebenese, the Lebenese were the agressors and were on the giving end of violence more often the on the receiving, although they make up a smaller % of the pop.
Btw, re the conflcits btw whites and Lebenese, the Lebenese were the agressors and were on the giving end of violence more often the on the receiving, although they make up a smaller % of the pop.
294
If you are going to mention Aussie hate crimes don't forget to mention the racist gang rapes on white christians committed by a gang of Muslims. An Iman caused an uproar for laughing about it in mosque and saying they brought it on themselves. Says something about who the racists in Australia really are.
295
@292 "Harry has every right to callout this black face minstrel show for what it is: racist. Why are all you Aussies so sensitive to a little criticism? Get out from under the Queen's skirt and grow a pair."
It's not a 'black face minstrel show', because we don't HAVE those in Australia. Those were your thing.
It's not a 'black face minstrel show', because we don't HAVE those in Australia. Those were your thing.
296
"don't forget to mention the racist gang rapes on white christians committed by a gang of Muslims. An Iman caused an uproar for laughing about it in mosque and saying they brought it on themselves. Says something about who the racists in Australia really are."
There you go guys, the tolerant face of modern, diverse Australia. Sounds a lot like the USA circa 1965...."those uppity niggers had it comin'.
"It's not a 'black face minstrel show', because we don't HAVE those in Australia. Those were your thing."
Actually they were your thing too, but just more recently. George Mitchell's 'Black and White Minstrel Show' toured Australia and New Zealand until the early 1970s, decades after such a show would have been unacceptable in the US.
There you go guys, the tolerant face of modern, diverse Australia. Sounds a lot like the USA circa 1965...."those uppity niggers had it comin'.
"It's not a 'black face minstrel show', because we don't HAVE those in Australia. Those were your thing."
Actually they were your thing too, but just more recently. George Mitchell's 'Black and White Minstrel Show' toured Australia and New Zealand until the early 1970s, decades after such a show would have been unacceptable in the US.
297
http://en.wikiped ia.org/wiki/Sto len_Generations
(remove spaces in URL)
Nice "non-racist" nation you've got there, Australia. Seems like the Americans have hit a nerve in some of our Aussie visitors here. No one's saying that the US doesn't have a history of racism - what's laughable is the belief that your nation is somehow just above that all. The guy who posted about indigenous Australians getting everything on "a silver bloody spoon" probably doesn't realize how much he sounds EXACTLY like an American redneck blathering on about black folks "stealing" his tax dollars.
(remove spaces in URL)
Nice "non-racist" nation you've got there, Australia. Seems like the Americans have hit a nerve in some of our Aussie visitors here. No one's saying that the US doesn't have a history of racism - what's laughable is the belief that your nation is somehow just above that all. The guy who posted about indigenous Australians getting everything on "a silver bloody spoon" probably doesn't realize how much he sounds EXACTLY like an American redneck blathering on about black folks "stealing" his tax dollars.
298
The blackface skit was stupid, offensive and not something I would expect to see on TV.
I don't think that the absence of a blackface performance history in Australia is an excuse - we certainly wouldn't make jokes about the Holocaust just because it didn't happen here.
Further, the fact that the people who performed the skit didn't intend offence is not the point - it did offend.
That said, this does not make Australia a land of racist idiots, and it isn't.
Yes, there are racists in Australia (as there are in the USA) but the reality is this country is one of the most racially diverse countries in the world and we generally get along a lot better than most other countries with a similar demographic.
And why do we get defensive? Well, its because people in the USA preaching about racism is hard to take. Many of us have travelled through the US extensively and with respect, racial tension is a much bigger issue in your beautiful country. More recently, some of the attacks on your President have been overtly racial.
The Robert Downey blackface performance is a red-herring - the producers of Hey Hey should have known better, with or without Harry Connick Jr this would have been widely criticised in Australia and has been.
So we might not be post-race miracles just yet - but we are getting there :p
I don't think that the absence of a blackface performance history in Australia is an excuse - we certainly wouldn't make jokes about the Holocaust just because it didn't happen here.
Further, the fact that the people who performed the skit didn't intend offence is not the point - it did offend.
That said, this does not make Australia a land of racist idiots, and it isn't.
Yes, there are racists in Australia (as there are in the USA) but the reality is this country is one of the most racially diverse countries in the world and we generally get along a lot better than most other countries with a similar demographic.
And why do we get defensive? Well, its because people in the USA preaching about racism is hard to take. Many of us have travelled through the US extensively and with respect, racial tension is a much bigger issue in your beautiful country. More recently, some of the attacks on your President have been overtly racial.
The Robert Downey blackface performance is a red-herring - the producers of Hey Hey should have known better, with or without Harry Connick Jr this would have been widely criticised in Australia and has been.
So we might not be post-race miracles just yet - but we are getting there :p
299
@297
Stevo had a relative who was a member of the stolen generations, and has taught modern-day indigenous Australian students with the sort of backgrounds that modern-day indigenous Australians do have.
This is not an agreement w/Stevo's views, but I daresay he's a fair bit more qualified to speak on the topic than you are.
I could link to hundreds of examples of racism in America. What is your point, exactly? No-one's saying we're 100% free of racism, we just don't need to drench the issue in pleasantries and rules on what is political correct to convince ourselves that we're pro.
Stevo had a relative who was a member of the stolen generations, and has taught modern-day indigenous Australian students with the sort of backgrounds that modern-day indigenous Australians do have.
This is not an agreement w/Stevo's views, but I daresay he's a fair bit more qualified to speak on the topic than you are.
I could link to hundreds of examples of racism in America. What is your point, exactly? No-one's saying we're 100% free of racism, we just don't need to drench the issue in pleasantries and rules on what is political correct to convince ourselves that we're pro.
300
To summarize the Australians argument here:
1. the problem is Americans have no sense of [sic] humour and are uptight. Afterall, it's not racist if it's funny.
2. Well, it may be racist, but you are not allowed to point it out because of the racism in your country (and because of Bush, Iraq, Vietnam, Gallipoli….you name it).
1. the problem is Americans have no sense of [sic] humour and are uptight. Afterall, it's not racist if it's funny.
2. Well, it may be racist, but you are not allowed to point it out because of the racism in your country (and because of Bush, Iraq, Vietnam, Gallipoli….you name it).
301
THanks Dee...and how terrible is was for those White Christian girls to get attacked in Sydney by those Arabs...I hope you white Australians got your revenge.
302
"the reality is this country is one of the most racially diverse countries"
Are you kidding? THe stats simply don't say that:
Australia: white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%
USA: White 66%, Hispanic or Latino ethnicity 14.8%, Black 13.4%, Asian 4.4%, others1.4%
Well you only ended the WHite Australia Policy in 1973, 9 yrs. after the US Civil Rights act. But you came in second.
Are you kidding? THe stats simply don't say that:
Australia: white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%
USA: White 66%, Hispanic or Latino ethnicity 14.8%, Black 13.4%, Asian 4.4%, others1.4%
Well you only ended the WHite Australia Policy in 1973, 9 yrs. after the US Civil Rights act. But you came in second.
303
"Stevo had a relative who was a member of the stolen generations"
I have a relative who is black...you know what? It proves nothing.
The two fastest ways to spot a racist? When they say:
1. I'm not a racist
2. Some of my best friends are black.
I have a relative who is black...you know what? It proves nothing.
The two fastest ways to spot a racist? When they say:
1. I'm not a racist
2. Some of my best friends are black.
304
"we just don't need to drench the issue in pleasantries and rules on what is political correct to convince ourselves that we're pro."
So let me get this straight, when these guys act like racist buffoons they are actually showing how open minded Australians are about race? Wow, it's like America....in 1952.
So let me get this straight, when these guys act like racist buffoons they are actually showing how open minded Australians are about race? Wow, it's like America....in 1952.
305
While I do understand the umbrage some folks take at white actors in blackface make-up, I find it equally offensive to see black actors/singers playing period Europeans in plays/operas: condescending multiculturalism.
Maxim
Maxim
306
Just saying "it's a joke" doesn't make something less offensive, mmmkay? I can't stand people who get away with the most blatantly offensive misogynistic, homophobic, racist, and just plain nasty crap by saying, "oh, I was just kidding, dontcha have a sense of humor?" Yup, I have a sense of humor. But vulgar and mean-spirited is still not funny.
307
@303.
I'm not saying he's not racist. I am saying that first-hand experience with relatives who were actually part of the stolen generation is probably more relevant than simply having read the wiki about it.
Furthermore, I think your "ways to spot a racist" reflects a pretty damn narrow-minded point of view. How absurd to think that anyone using either of those phrases automatically must be discriminatory against people of different races? So much for presumption of innocence.
If you take someone saying the very simple phrase "I'm not a racist" to mean the complete opposite, well, I don't know what's going on in your head, mate, but you sound pretty deluded and paranoid.
I am not racist. I have never made a judgment about any person's worth, personality or intellect based on the color of their skin or their country of origin. I have never made a derogatory racial comment. In fact, I spent 2 years of my childhood in a school where I was the only white kid, and my husband is African-American. I mention those two things because it's pretty decent supporting evidence for my point.
I guess I must be the lone exception to your amazingly reasonable code-for-spotting-racists? Hey, I hear any man who wears pink is gay, and all chicks with short hair are lesbians. Also, keep this one on the down low, but if anyone says they're not a Republican... it actually secretly means they are. /gasp!
I'm not saying he's not racist. I am saying that first-hand experience with relatives who were actually part of the stolen generation is probably more relevant than simply having read the wiki about it.
Furthermore, I think your "ways to spot a racist" reflects a pretty damn narrow-minded point of view. How absurd to think that anyone using either of those phrases automatically must be discriminatory against people of different races? So much for presumption of innocence.
If you take someone saying the very simple phrase "I'm not a racist" to mean the complete opposite, well, I don't know what's going on in your head, mate, but you sound pretty deluded and paranoid.
I am not racist. I have never made a judgment about any person's worth, personality or intellect based on the color of their skin or their country of origin. I have never made a derogatory racial comment. In fact, I spent 2 years of my childhood in a school where I was the only white kid, and my husband is African-American. I mention those two things because it's pretty decent supporting evidence for my point.
I guess I must be the lone exception to your amazingly reasonable code-for-spotting-racists? Hey, I hear any man who wears pink is gay, and all chicks with short hair are lesbians. Also, keep this one on the down low, but if anyone says they're not a Republican... it actually secretly means they are. /gasp!
308
Australians - not all Americans are as stupid as the ones on this thread saying this was racist. Painting ones face black has racist implications, HERE, because the accompanying skits back in those shameful days ridiculed blacks. Now, wearing black-face, HERE, is taboo, even if the wearer is not ridiculing blacks.
It's clear no ridicule of blacks (in general) existed in this skit, beyond the normal exaggeration of any caricature. Should these performers had known about the history of the minstrel show in the US? I don't know why they would.
I know nothing of Australian history outside of movies. I know that you had some apocalyptic period where everyone was driving around in home-made cars, fighting over petrol, but that's about it. I'm sure there are things that you all consider racist due to specific events in your own country that we have no idea about.
Americans assume their own culture is universal. It's the poor education system here.
It's clear no ridicule of blacks (in general) existed in this skit, beyond the normal exaggeration of any caricature. Should these performers had known about the history of the minstrel show in the US? I don't know why they would.
I know nothing of Australian history outside of movies. I know that you had some apocalyptic period where everyone was driving around in home-made cars, fighting over petrol, but that's about it. I'm sure there are things that you all consider racist due to specific events in your own country that we have no idea about.
Americans assume their own culture is universal. It's the poor education system here.
309
"I don't think that the absence of a blackface performance history in Australia is an excuse - we certainly wouldn't make jokes about the Holocaust just because it didn't happen here."
Since this skit didn't make fun of genocide against anyone your comparison makes no sense. I guess you didn't know that the President of Iran encourages Holocaust denial and makes some vile hate speech against Jews. I don't hear Africans getting up in arams about that. If you're not going to protest ridiculing genocide against Jews when it is done by Louis Farrakhan or President Ahmadinejad you can just shut the f*** up when things like this happen. Nowhere on this planet can you talk about Africans the way some Africans talk openly about Jews. So give your indignation about this event a rest.
Since this skit didn't make fun of genocide against anyone your comparison makes no sense. I guess you didn't know that the President of Iran encourages Holocaust denial and makes some vile hate speech against Jews. I don't hear Africans getting up in arams about that. If you're not going to protest ridiculing genocide against Jews when it is done by Louis Farrakhan or President Ahmadinejad you can just shut the f*** up when things like this happen. Nowhere on this planet can you talk about Africans the way some Africans talk openly about Jews. So give your indignation about this event a rest.
310
saying all australians are racists is like saying all white americans are in the KKK
i am australian. i live in the US. I think of myself as not racist. But i have been called racist by black americans AND black australians. And white australians... go figure.
if you do a skit and it causes trouble, say sorry. end of story.
Where did this notion come from that people have the right to be outraged about something that is THIS insignificant? You want outrage?
black people beaten to death in custody
children being sold into sexual slavery in EVERY country.. US and Australia included.
women being killed for showing their ankles
PEOPLE BEATING THEIR KIDS TO DEATH FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!
why don't you start there?
and people have made some good points...
robert downey jr in "tropic thunder"?
the wayans bros in "white chicks"?
robin williams, dustin hoffman, leo dicaprio.. a woman, an idiot savant and a retarded fella? some of this stuff is oscar worthy, but if it had been taken the wrong way?.. something to think on..
i am australian. i live in the US. I think of myself as not racist. But i have been called racist by black americans AND black australians. And white australians... go figure.
if you do a skit and it causes trouble, say sorry. end of story.
Where did this notion come from that people have the right to be outraged about something that is THIS insignificant? You want outrage?
black people beaten to death in custody
children being sold into sexual slavery in EVERY country.. US and Australia included.
women being killed for showing their ankles
PEOPLE BEATING THEIR KIDS TO DEATH FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!
why don't you start there?
and people have made some good points...
robert downey jr in "tropic thunder"?
the wayans bros in "white chicks"?
robin williams, dustin hoffman, leo dicaprio.. a woman, an idiot savant and a retarded fella? some of this stuff is oscar worthy, but if it had been taken the wrong way?.. something to think on..
311
Discounting the cheap shots from the trolls on here, I don't see much of a stustained arguement coming from the posters here to refute some of the better posts above (I level that acusation at both the Australians and the Americans here). Just a lot of smug proclomations and ad hominem attacks that seek to stymie the conversation before it starts.
Still, this is the internet and I should know better than to expect civility.
This whole thread demonstrates what is wrong with our species and why we're doomed to failure in the end.
I'm neither proud or ashamed of being Australian, and find the idea of being identified as part of a group than as an individual depressing.
But go ahead and bang your drum, fire your canons and wave the flag at the front of the boat while the stern is slowly sinking.
Still, this is the internet and I should know better than to expect civility.
This whole thread demonstrates what is wrong with our species and why we're doomed to failure in the end.
I'm neither proud or ashamed of being Australian, and find the idea of being identified as part of a group than as an individual depressing.
But go ahead and bang your drum, fire your canons and wave the flag at the front of the boat while the stern is slowly sinking.
312
To clear up the discussion about Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder:
This was an inside-Hollywood joke, as were nearly all of the jokes in this movie. It's notoriously hard for a black actor to get a serious role in American films. The irony of even a black role going to a white actor - that's what made it transcend the normal American taboo associated with whites playing blacks. That, and the seething resentment of the actual black actor in the "movie."
It might have caused more of a stir if it weren't for the Ben Stiller "Simple Jack" role, which drew most of the fire. God, that movie was funny. "Never go full retard."
This was an inside-Hollywood joke, as were nearly all of the jokes in this movie. It's notoriously hard for a black actor to get a serious role in American films. The irony of even a black role going to a white actor - that's what made it transcend the normal American taboo associated with whites playing blacks. That, and the seething resentment of the actual black actor in the "movie."
It might have caused more of a stir if it weren't for the Ben Stiller "Simple Jack" role, which drew most of the fire. God, that movie was funny. "Never go full retard."
313
@56 Yes it is a culture gap; between the civilized world and the not-so-civilized world.
Seriously? You believe America to be civilized?
So then your gang problems all over the nation but particularly in Los Angeles are to be considered civilized by American standards? Even though so much of the conflict is a direct result of AMERICAN hate?
As an Australian ( a 'White' Australian) obviously I have a sense of patriotism that I must defend, however I must add that I myself found the act offensive. I can understand the comments pleading innocence because 'blackface' is not a pervading issue in our country. But in saying this, our innocence or more to the point ignorance does not justify the act.
Australia is abound with racial issues. But to compare America to Australia and believe yourselves to be civilized and label ALL Australians as 'savages' is simply hypocritical. Our countries are both rife with racial inequality and as a far younger country than yourselves we are yet to address these issues.
But in closing my argument I would like to point out that the actions of 6 multicultural Australian citizens does not constitute such a reaction as to dub the entirety of Australia as racists and have Americans wash their hands of their own situation because they've managed to point the finger at someone else. If you disagree with me go look up 'The Stolen Generation' and 'American Hate'.
Seriously? You believe America to be civilized?
So then your gang problems all over the nation but particularly in Los Angeles are to be considered civilized by American standards? Even though so much of the conflict is a direct result of AMERICAN hate?
As an Australian ( a 'White' Australian) obviously I have a sense of patriotism that I must defend, however I must add that I myself found the act offensive. I can understand the comments pleading innocence because 'blackface' is not a pervading issue in our country. But in saying this, our innocence or more to the point ignorance does not justify the act.
Australia is abound with racial issues. But to compare America to Australia and believe yourselves to be civilized and label ALL Australians as 'savages' is simply hypocritical. Our countries are both rife with racial inequality and as a far younger country than yourselves we are yet to address these issues.
But in closing my argument I would like to point out that the actions of 6 multicultural Australian citizens does not constitute such a reaction as to dub the entirety of Australia as racists and have Americans wash their hands of their own situation because they've managed to point the finger at someone else. If you disagree with me go look up 'The Stolen Generation' and 'American Hate'.
314
"Americans assume their own culture is universal. It's the poor education system here. "
Team America: World Police
Team America: World Police
315
Dee, you forgot one more, you are defender of Australia's white, Christian ladies against the Muslim hordes in Australia.
"gang rapes on white christians committed by a gang of Muslims. "
"gang rapes on white christians committed by a gang of Muslims. "
316
@269
My dad fought for the US army in the Solomons in WW2. I believe he'd be appalled at your suggestion that the USA kept Australia white.
It's an age old argument pulled out by tired jerks who have no idea where the battles were fought or won. Americans have the poorest education relating to history and wars in the civilized world.
Now I'm not suggesting Australia is not grateful for the support, but I am offended as an American, that you might pull out the tired old... 'if it were not for us, you'd all be speaking Japanese" line.
If I had a twelve inch dick and bit it... it'd hurt. Let's get over being the saviors of the world... and having the world owe us for all that marvelous good we've done. It makes us look cheap... but probably not quite as cheap as we are.
My dad fought for the US army in the Solomons in WW2. I believe he'd be appalled at your suggestion that the USA kept Australia white.
It's an age old argument pulled out by tired jerks who have no idea where the battles were fought or won. Americans have the poorest education relating to history and wars in the civilized world.
Now I'm not suggesting Australia is not grateful for the support, but I am offended as an American, that you might pull out the tired old... 'if it were not for us, you'd all be speaking Japanese" line.
If I had a twelve inch dick and bit it... it'd hurt. Let's get over being the saviors of the world... and having the world owe us for all that marvelous good we've done. It makes us look cheap... but probably not quite as cheap as we are.
317
Well, when 92% of your country is white after decades of Whites Only immigration policies, of course you don't have many race problems: everyone is white. In fact, you have so few people of color, you have to use blackface, then express shock when you find out it's racist.
318
I'm a little confused here....Have any of you seen 'Tropic Thunder.' Why can a white american get away with it but not an indian australian? So far the only true racists are you who comment how stupid australians are as a whole. I am offended by your racism. Go back and read some of your own comments and youll see what I mean. I did not watch hey hey. I am a white Aussie female. I am friends with alot of blacks of all races including our own natives. You will find that we give our Aboriginals free housing, education, food, healthcare.. At this point they choose to live the way they do. Some Aboriginals I know go to University, but Racist America will not hear that as it does not agree with their stereotypes of 'barbaric' Australians. I was planning to visit america/ canada sometime soon. I might skip USA and go straight to Canada.
319
Oh my goodness... I'm a racist! I hand myself over to Americans for a good public birching by the masters of big stick. I do so on behalf of Australia, in the hope that you bastards don't come and bomb us.
Dictionary definition of 'Race'- a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group : we Scots were a bloodthirsty race then.
Race ain't just the skin colour baby...
Population clock
On 9 October 2009 at 10:49:56 AM (Canberra time), the resident population of Australia is projected to be:
22,009,415
This projection is based on the estimated resident population at 31 March 2009 and assumes growth since then of:
one birth every 1 minute and 44 seconds,
one death every 3 minutes and 39 seconds,
a net gain of one international migrant every 1 minutes and 53 seconds leading to
an overall total population increase of one person every 1 minute and 12 seconds.
I don't have the exact facts in front of me, but we know the majority of migrants are from Asia. Australia is in close proximity to Asia, so that is no surprise.
In the days of The White Australia Policy, we had a lot of European folks and built a healthy population of folks from Lebanon. By definition, these people, mostly white, were still classified as other races. Oh, by definition, they still are.
Folks dribbling shit off their chins with tired old 92% of you are white style stats need to get a grip on what 'race' actually is. When you work it out, we have an indigenous population, by and large not so well done by, of reportedly one percent. That makes us 99% from 'other races'. I don't know the percentage of Native Americans, but to find out your own percentage of 'other races', just take away the percentage of Native americans.
Somewhere along the line both the USA and Australia have developed their own cultures. Our current cultures were founded upon our forefathers racism. The winner takes most.
We dropped the White Australia policy in the seventies. We have people queuing to get here from all over the world, some, desperately so, arrive as refugees.
I just don't get the point. We are all far more inclined to grow up with what we know. In Australia, we have communities that are still significantly culture centric. With the infux of Vietnamese migrants a couple of decades back, many of them moved to the same suburbs in cities around Australia. They did so by choice... to maintain the relationships and many of the aspects of their lives and culture that are important to them. Or perhaps they are just a bunch of racists...
anyway, I'm bored... come and take me.
Australia has supported the USA in recent conflicts because through various treaty arrangements we have agreed to do so. There are a significant number of people both here and in the USA that disagree with those conflicts. One thing to note is that Australia is not an aggressor in forcing ourselves militarily on other parts of the globe. We have complied with requests because of long standing friendship and because we keep our word.
And, of course, we just love the taste of texan penis.... hold the sauce, thanks.
More...
Dictionary definition of 'Race'- a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group : we Scots were a bloodthirsty race then.
Race ain't just the skin colour baby...
Population clock
On 9 October 2009 at 10:49:56 AM (Canberra time), the resident population of Australia is projected to be:
22,009,415
This projection is based on the estimated resident population at 31 March 2009 and assumes growth since then of:
one birth every 1 minute and 44 seconds,
one death every 3 minutes and 39 seconds,
a net gain of one international migrant every 1 minutes and 53 seconds leading to
an overall total population increase of one person every 1 minute and 12 seconds.
I don't have the exact facts in front of me, but we know the majority of migrants are from Asia. Australia is in close proximity to Asia, so that is no surprise.
In the days of The White Australia Policy, we had a lot of European folks and built a healthy population of folks from Lebanon. By definition, these people, mostly white, were still classified as other races. Oh, by definition, they still are.
Folks dribbling shit off their chins with tired old 92% of you are white style stats need to get a grip on what 'race' actually is. When you work it out, we have an indigenous population, by and large not so well done by, of reportedly one percent. That makes us 99% from 'other races'. I don't know the percentage of Native Americans, but to find out your own percentage of 'other races', just take away the percentage of Native americans.
Somewhere along the line both the USA and Australia have developed their own cultures. Our current cultures were founded upon our forefathers racism. The winner takes most.
We dropped the White Australia policy in the seventies. We have people queuing to get here from all over the world, some, desperately so, arrive as refugees.
I just don't get the point. We are all far more inclined to grow up with what we know. In Australia, we have communities that are still significantly culture centric. With the infux of Vietnamese migrants a couple of decades back, many of them moved to the same suburbs in cities around Australia. They did so by choice... to maintain the relationships and many of the aspects of their lives and culture that are important to them. Or perhaps they are just a bunch of racists...
anyway, I'm bored... come and take me.
Australia has supported the USA in recent conflicts because through various treaty arrangements we have agreed to do so. There are a significant number of people both here and in the USA that disagree with those conflicts. One thing to note is that Australia is not an aggressor in forcing ourselves militarily on other parts of the globe. We have complied with requests because of long standing friendship and because we keep our word.
And, of course, we just love the taste of texan penis.... hold the sauce, thanks.
320
"'blackface' is not a pervading issue in our country"
Maybe it should be. You keep saying "we couldn't possibly know it was offensive, we don't have that here". Yet I saw golliwog dolls for sale in the Block Arcade in Melbourne last month, and you had blackface minstrel troupes touring Australia to great popular acclaim as recently as the 1970s. Remember Arnott's Golliwog biscuits? How about Robertson's jam?
Dear siennamay: your 40-watt understanding of "Tropic Thunder" has been answered a hundred times in this thread. You should go back and read it. Can you read?
Maybe it should be. You keep saying "we couldn't possibly know it was offensive, we don't have that here". Yet I saw golliwog dolls for sale in the Block Arcade in Melbourne last month, and you had blackface minstrel troupes touring Australia to great popular acclaim as recently as the 1970s. Remember Arnott's Golliwog biscuits? How about Robertson's jam?
Dear siennamay: your 40-watt understanding of "Tropic Thunder" has been answered a hundred times in this thread. You should go back and read it. Can you read?
321
@319, why do you think this is a contest, cunt?
For the record, though, you've got many weapons to beat us with at your disposal, but you foolishly chose immigration? The USA is the most immigrationey country in the world.
Which still has fuck-all to do with whether YOUR country has a problem with racism or not. Which it does.
For the record, though, you've got many weapons to beat us with at your disposal, but you foolishly chose immigration? The USA is the most immigrationey country in the world.
Which still has fuck-all to do with whether YOUR country has a problem with racism or not. Which it does.
323
@269
Australia declared war on the Third Reich of Germany on the 3rd of September 1939. America would not join the war and would not fight. While Australian troops were fighting German troops. FDR provoked Japan by embargoing American oil exports. FDR realised that to contuine her war effort against China she would have to strike out at the European Colonies and Dominions (Australia) to seize war supplies. That action by your president put Australia in a very tight spot. With armies in Britain and North Africa we could not afford an attack by the Japanese. So as soon as war with Japan was looking likely we had to withdrawn from fighting Hitler and his cronies. Because America put us in a bad spot. Unfortunlatley for America the Japanese chose not to stirke at the Far East first but they stuck at Peral Harbour. Like in the First World War someone had to hit you in the balls before you started fighting. Australia was one of the first to declare war against Japan. Well before Britain and then America. Then Hitler had to declare war against America.
Australian units were at El Alemian were the German Amry suffered its first defeat. The Australian Amry was the first allied army to hault then defeat the Japanese amry along the Kokoda Track. We smashed them again at Milne bay. SO DONT THREATEN AND DICTATE UNTIL YOU ARE MARCHING UP PALRALIMENT HOUSE AND EVEN THEN WE WONT LISTEN!!!
America wished to stay out of the fight and let other nations do the dirty work. Thats fine but dont get us in wars we dont need to have.
Australia declared war on the Third Reich of Germany on the 3rd of September 1939. America would not join the war and would not fight. While Australian troops were fighting German troops. FDR provoked Japan by embargoing American oil exports. FDR realised that to contuine her war effort against China she would have to strike out at the European Colonies and Dominions (Australia) to seize war supplies. That action by your president put Australia in a very tight spot. With armies in Britain and North Africa we could not afford an attack by the Japanese. So as soon as war with Japan was looking likely we had to withdrawn from fighting Hitler and his cronies. Because America put us in a bad spot. Unfortunlatley for America the Japanese chose not to stirke at the Far East first but they stuck at Peral Harbour. Like in the First World War someone had to hit you in the balls before you started fighting. Australia was one of the first to declare war against Japan. Well before Britain and then America. Then Hitler had to declare war against America.
Australian units were at El Alemian were the German Amry suffered its first defeat. The Australian Amry was the first allied army to hault then defeat the Japanese amry along the Kokoda Track. We smashed them again at Milne bay. SO DONT THREATEN AND DICTATE UNTIL YOU ARE MARCHING UP PALRALIMENT HOUSE AND EVEN THEN WE WONT LISTEN!!!
America wished to stay out of the fight and let other nations do the dirty work. Thats fine but dont get us in wars we dont need to have.
324
Bravo to the poster of 239.
"Everyone's drunk 99% of the time"(#116) - Not true.....Please check your facts before generalising.....I'll clear it up for you....not everybody drinks (I know at least three people who don't drink) and as to 99% of the time....I believe that is a bit over the top. The law only dictates that we be drunk for 75% of the time.
You americans probably won't understand this, but this is a typical example of how we Aussies can laugh at ourselves.
"Everyone's drunk 99% of the time"(#116) - Not true.....Please check your facts before generalising.....I'll clear it up for you....not everybody drinks (I know at least three people who don't drink) and as to 99% of the time....I believe that is a bit over the top. The law only dictates that we be drunk for 75% of the time.
You americans probably won't understand this, but this is a typical example of how we Aussies can laugh at ourselves.
325
Pissing matches about WWII dishonour your Grandfathers and what they fought for. I doubt you would say the rant above to an American vet if you was standing in front of you.
Oh, and my Grandfather was a RAAF pilot in the North Africa campaign in case you were concerned with my credentials to comment on the subject.
Oh, and my Grandfather was a RAAF pilot in the North Africa campaign in case you were concerned with my credentials to comment on the subject.
326
http://www.meganandjack.com/mt/archives/…
Australian's are all racists! Now to partake in my favourite American pastime, a game of Baseball!
Nice one racially tolerant United States of America, apparently.
Australian's are all racists! Now to partake in my favourite American pastime, a game of Baseball!
Nice one racially tolerant United States of America, apparently.
327
There have been some interesting comments originating from the United States of Ignorance on this matter.
CAN I PLEASE TAKE THIS MOMENT TO APOLOGISE TO EVERYBODY ON THIS THREAD. AT THE START OF IT I DID NOT BELIEVE I WAS RACIST. AND MOST LIKELY I WASN'T RACIST THEN. BUT NOW I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT IN READING THIS THREAD I HAVE BECOME A RACIST.
WHY?
SIMPLE...........I NOW HATE AMERICANS!!!
CAN I PLEASE TAKE THIS MOMENT TO APOLOGISE TO EVERYBODY ON THIS THREAD. AT THE START OF IT I DID NOT BELIEVE I WAS RACIST. AND MOST LIKELY I WASN'T RACIST THEN. BUT NOW I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT IN READING THIS THREAD I HAVE BECOME A RACIST.
WHY?
SIMPLE...........I NOW HATE AMERICANS!!!
329
@ 325
I would actually. No discredit to American Veterns who frought and bleed. I am honoured that they (Americans) frought for us. I don't like Americans who say that we were delivered from the heathen Japanese by them ordained from God. Australia has a proud military history, no doubt your grandfather agrees. Australia, America and the allies won the day.
I would actually. No discredit to American Veterns who frought and bleed. I am honoured that they (Americans) frought for us. I don't like Americans who say that we were delivered from the heathen Japanese by them ordained from God. Australia has a proud military history, no doubt your grandfather agrees. Australia, America and the allies won the day.
330
"Nice one racially tolerant United States of America, apparently."
We're not, we're racist as hell, but at least we're honest about it and don't sit around and pretend doctors in blackface is just a 'buncha mates havin' fun'.
My favourite Aussie joke:
While waiting to finalise their Australian residental status, two Afghanistani men start chatting. As they part, they agree to meet in a years time and see who has adapted better to the Australian way of life.
True to their word, they meet after the year is up. The first says to the second "We have integrated so well...yesterday, I ate a meat pie and drank a VB while watching my son play Aussie rules"
The second man replies "F**k off, towelhead"
We're not, we're racist as hell, but at least we're honest about it and don't sit around and pretend doctors in blackface is just a 'buncha mates havin' fun'.
My favourite Aussie joke:
While waiting to finalise their Australian residental status, two Afghanistani men start chatting. As they part, they agree to meet in a years time and see who has adapted better to the Australian way of life.
True to their word, they meet after the year is up. The first says to the second "We have integrated so well...yesterday, I ate a meat pie and drank a VB while watching my son play Aussie rules"
The second man replies "F**k off, towelhead"
331
Guys, Im a proud Aussie and I have friends from all over the world and believe I hold no prejudice. I know there are those out there, all over the world' that are racist though.
What annoys me however is hypocracy.
Robert Downey Jnr, an actor I admire and love to watch, received an Academy Award nomination for his portrayal of a white actor making himself black for a role in Tropic Thunder.
I mean seriously, calling each other names. Is that any better than racism?
What annoys me however is hypocracy.
Robert Downey Jnr, an actor I admire and love to watch, received an Academy Award nomination for his portrayal of a white actor making himself black for a role in Tropic Thunder.
I mean seriously, calling each other names. Is that any better than racism?
333
Australians are ignorant of their own history.
In WWII, the Americans set up military bases in the Kimberley, near Derby and Broome, in the far northwestern corner of the country. There, they hired many local Aboriginal boys from the pearling fleets. It was the first paid work these boys ever saw. Until then, they were routinely kidnapped by the white pearlers and forced to dive, without any training or equipment of any kind, over and over, sunup to sundown, never out of the water, heads forced under if they tried to rest. Many of them drowned of course, but no one cared, because they were essentially slave labor. You just went out and got more. They weren't as good at diving as the traditional Japanese and Indonesians there, but you had to PAY those divers. It's one of Australia's most brutal episodes -- it makes the Stolen Generation look like a picnic -- and it happened within living memory, up until WWII at least.
White Australians just don't want to know.
In WWII, the Americans set up military bases in the Kimberley, near Derby and Broome, in the far northwestern corner of the country. There, they hired many local Aboriginal boys from the pearling fleets. It was the first paid work these boys ever saw. Until then, they were routinely kidnapped by the white pearlers and forced to dive, without any training or equipment of any kind, over and over, sunup to sundown, never out of the water, heads forced under if they tried to rest. Many of them drowned of course, but no one cared, because they were essentially slave labor. You just went out and got more. They weren't as good at diving as the traditional Japanese and Indonesians there, but you had to PAY those divers. It's one of Australia's most brutal episodes -- it makes the Stolen Generation look like a picnic -- and it happened within living memory, up until WWII at least.
White Australians just don't want to know.
337
Yes, and once HM Elizabeth tosses off her mortal coil, the Aussie new head of state will be Charles 'I want to be your tampon' WIndsor and Queen Camilla. ...now, how can anyone respect a country that let's German inbreeds from the other side of the planet be their rulers?
338
@330 "We're not, we're racist as hell, but at least we're honest about it and don't sit around and pretend doctors in blackface is just a 'buncha mates havin' fun'."
Umm pretty sure I admitted that about Australia, didn't I?
313
"As an Australian ( a 'White' Australian) obviously I have a sense of patriotism that I must defend, however I must add that I myself found the act offensive. I can understand the comments pleading innocence because 'blackface' is not a pervading issue in our country. But in saying this, our innocence or more to the point ignorance does not justify the act."
"Australia is abound with racial issues"....." Our countries are both rife with racial inequality"
Oh that's right I did.
I don't think any INTELLIGENT Australian comment has made any remark about there being absolutely no racist connotations. The point that I am trying to make is that a citizen of the United States of America has no right to stand up and attempt to school us on what is acceptable because they believe that their morals, history, culture and systemic beliefs are universal. And if you read through most of the American responses it isn't hard to see that attitude developing.
Point is the skit was racist. America is full of racists, Australia is full of racists. So is every other country in the world so maybe just get over it? Be satisfied with the knowledge that you, yourself are not a racist and just be kind to one another because that's really all we can do on a daily basis to make the world less of a chemical toilet?
Umm pretty sure I admitted that about Australia, didn't I?
313
"As an Australian ( a 'White' Australian) obviously I have a sense of patriotism that I must defend, however I must add that I myself found the act offensive. I can understand the comments pleading innocence because 'blackface' is not a pervading issue in our country. But in saying this, our innocence or more to the point ignorance does not justify the act."
"Australia is abound with racial issues"....." Our countries are both rife with racial inequality"
Oh that's right I did.
I don't think any INTELLIGENT Australian comment has made any remark about there being absolutely no racist connotations. The point that I am trying to make is that a citizen of the United States of America has no right to stand up and attempt to school us on what is acceptable because they believe that their morals, history, culture and systemic beliefs are universal. And if you read through most of the American responses it isn't hard to see that attitude developing.
Point is the skit was racist. America is full of racists, Australia is full of racists. So is every other country in the world so maybe just get over it? Be satisfied with the knowledge that you, yourself are not a racist and just be kind to one another because that's really all we can do on a daily basis to make the world less of a chemical toilet?
339
@338 Sure there are racists in every country in the world. But some countries are worse than others. Some countries are exceptionally bad.
340
@339 Yes and in comparison to Germany having the Holocaust, South Africa having Apartheid and The U.S having to have their entire country at war with themselves just to abolish the slavery of African's of which the United States is still the worst offender in history, using the scalps of American Indians as trade currency, a loooong history of KKK and National Socialist groups that is still very much present and your everyday argument about 'border jumping beaners' I think Australia may just be able to slip under the 'exceptionally bad' category. Just maybe.
Prove me wrong children, prove me wrong.
Prove me wrong children, prove me wrong.
341
"The point that I am trying to make is that a citizen of the United States of America has no right to stand up and attempt to school us on what is acceptable because they believe that their morals, history, culture and systemic beliefs are universal."
So if Crocodile Dundee came over as a judge for an American variety show and there was a skit with black faced whites pretending to be 'abos', blowing on didgeridoos, complete with natty hair wigs, jumping around like a bunch of cavemen, you'd shut the fuck up?
So if Crocodile Dundee came over as a judge for an American variety show and there was a skit with black faced whites pretending to be 'abos', blowing on didgeridoos, complete with natty hair wigs, jumping around like a bunch of cavemen, you'd shut the fuck up?
342
Sigh, it seems Fnarf just likes controversy and name calling. Typical conceited head in the sand attitude I expected. Calling people names is no better than racism, you just show the type of people that come up with this crap. Two thumbs up, I bet your country is proud.
See.. I could have called you dickhead, wanker, window licker, although all are accurate, I wouldn't say them... usually.. DICKHEAD.
See.. I could have called you dickhead, wanker, window licker, although all are accurate, I wouldn't say them... usually.. DICKHEAD.
343
I certainly wouldn't dedicate a news feed to it and then label your entire country's population as racists, if that's what you mean you fucking idiot.
And the difference is Australian's wouldn't attempt to start schooling you on racism because we know when to shut the fuck up and not attempt to police the universe.
By the way his name is Paul Hogan and he's a U.S Citizen. Crocodile Dundee was in fact a fictional character from a Hollywood (that's in America) film.
And the difference is Australian's wouldn't attempt to start schooling you on racism because we know when to shut the fuck up and not attempt to police the universe.
By the way his name is Paul Hogan and he's a U.S Citizen. Crocodile Dundee was in fact a fictional character from a Hollywood (that's in America) film.
345
@ 321
nice language ... good to see you are the voice of reason and so eloquently put your views to web page.
For the record, I believe you to be a typical know it all jerk. You visit, you read and you know. You spend your time in forums raising yourself above the rest.... regardless, You have us covered. Thank God for people like you... otherwise there'd be no reason for me to puke out whatever toxins move upwards when I see your posts. You are a purge, a cleanse and a diet all in one.
That post where you called the person a completely unnecessary name was in response to others making it a competition. But you might be above reading it again.
You appear to have a fixation with golliwogs and minstrels. As Bob Newheart would say... there is a two word cure for your problem... "STOP IT"!
nice language ... good to see you are the voice of reason and so eloquently put your views to web page.
For the record, I believe you to be a typical know it all jerk. You visit, you read and you know. You spend your time in forums raising yourself above the rest.... regardless, You have us covered. Thank God for people like you... otherwise there'd be no reason for me to puke out whatever toxins move upwards when I see your posts. You are a purge, a cleanse and a diet all in one.
That post where you called the person a completely unnecessary name was in response to others making it a competition. But you might be above reading it again.
You appear to have a fixation with golliwogs and minstrels. As Bob Newheart would say... there is a two word cure for your problem... "STOP IT"!
346
"Crocodile Dundee was in fact a fictional character from a Hollywood (that's in America) film."
Well, I had to find a famous Aussie to share with our American friends...if I was looking for a talented Australian, setting aside Nick cave, I would have picked Rod Hull's Emu and that would have been lost on many people here.
Thanks for the approval, I'll start working on my offensive abo skit now. What would you suggest, the 'drunk abo in the outback town' skit, or 'drunk abo killed by copper who is subsequently set free by an all white jury in the outback' skit. Let me know which is more offensive.
Well, I had to find a famous Aussie to share with our American friends...if I was looking for a talented Australian, setting aside Nick cave, I would have picked Rod Hull's Emu and that would have been lost on many people here.
Thanks for the approval, I'll start working on my offensive abo skit now. What would you suggest, the 'drunk abo in the outback town' skit, or 'drunk abo killed by copper who is subsequently set free by an all white jury in the outback' skit. Let me know which is more offensive.
347
"not attempt to police the universe."
Well that's because you can't....and if you wanted to, you'd still need the Queen's permission.
Instead you voted in George Bush's official Aussie ball-sucker John Howard and just hitched a ride.
Well that's because you can't....and if you wanted to, you'd still need the Queen's permission.
Instead you voted in George Bush's official Aussie ball-sucker John Howard and just hitched a ride.
348
@346 How about 'white cop shoots a young non-gang affiliated African-American boy in Compton and is subsequently set free by an all white jury'.
You're just arguing semantics, you can apply that situation to benefit either argument. give up.
@347 Just because you have the money and strength in armoury to muscle in on other countries doesn't give you the right to. It's not a matter of whether you can or cannot. You just shouldn't because then you're not being a prick.
You're just arguing semantics, you can apply that situation to benefit either argument. give up.
@347 Just because you have the money and strength in armoury to muscle in on other countries doesn't give you the right to. It's not a matter of whether you can or cannot. You just shouldn't because then you're not being a prick.
349
BTW. I am going to be a bit 'racist' here by mentioning a few things that we know about ourselves but do not say out loud.
Fact: We have gangs of Africans wondering around trainstations near dandenong victoria beating up indians. This is reported in india as "Aussies beat up indian students."
Fact: We have areas in Queensland/NT/WA where Aboriginals live in their own towns by their own choice, And they rape their own children, however if Child Services intervene we are called racist and "creating another stolen generation."
Fact:When police report on Australias Most Wanted, they are not allowed to state the nationality of the criminal.
My point is that from Americas point of view we are racist. But they are not told the whole story.
In the case of this skit, most of the people in it are not Australian born.
I believe that it shows our unity, the fact that a few Leboneese, indians ect can work together to put on a show about a black american family. I think its far from racist. The exact opposite in fact. Do you honestly think most black americans would be offended? or is it just the MJ fans?
Fact: We have gangs of Africans wondering around trainstations near dandenong victoria beating up indians. This is reported in india as "Aussies beat up indian students."
Fact: We have areas in Queensland/NT/WA where Aboriginals live in their own towns by their own choice, And they rape their own children, however if Child Services intervene we are called racist and "creating another stolen generation."
Fact:When police report on Australias Most Wanted, they are not allowed to state the nationality of the criminal.
My point is that from Americas point of view we are racist. But they are not told the whole story.
In the case of this skit, most of the people in it are not Australian born.
I believe that it shows our unity, the fact that a few Leboneese, indians ect can work together to put on a show about a black american family. I think its far from racist. The exact opposite in fact. Do you honestly think most black americans would be offended? or is it just the MJ fans?
350
"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." - The Fourteen Words, a product of American National Socialism coined by David Eden Lane an American white nationalist leader, author and convicted felon.
The Fourteen words were dervied from Hitler's Mein Kampf
"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. Every thought and every idea, every doctrine and all knowledge, must serve this purpose. And everything must be examined from this point of view and used or rejected according to its utility."
This is your constitutional freedom of speech at work, does that make you proud?
Does this give you the right to pass judgment on anyone else?
The Fourteen words were dervied from Hitler's Mein Kampf
"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. Every thought and every idea, every doctrine and all knowledge, must serve this purpose. And everything must be examined from this point of view and used or rejected according to its utility."
This is your constitutional freedom of speech at work, does that make you proud?
Does this give you the right to pass judgment on anyone else?
351
Comment #282 - I cringe at the fact that I'm even taking the effort to respond to such pathetic school yard level rubbish - maybe the name Billy BOY is quite fitting - grow up! I am hopeful in assuming that the majority of Americans reading your comments (except for possibly 'Fnarf' who seems to exist on a similar intellectual level to yourself) can see that in your attempt to stand up for your country you are actually making yourself look like an absolute loser and doing more to embarrass it than anything! To both of you, your disgusting language and insulting comments are not unique or at all interesting. Most of us evolved from that kind of rubbish after high school. I'm an Australian female political science graduate with a keen interest on culture and equality and a love of diversity and travel, and was unfortunate enough to come across this thread on a study break yesterday(which I now wish I never took). Just when I start to think the world is progressing, I read something like this blog and realise how far there still is to go. Will we as the human race ever get there - I don't know but certainly hope so. Idiots exist in all countries. This blog is clear evidence of that. The old 'I know our country has racism but yours is worse' debate is so tired and a very weak excuse for not addressing our own back yards. On another note, I've been trying to understand how saying one is not a racist is a racist comment. Can someone please enlighten me on this? Thankyou, Tania.
352
Wow what an interesting discussion, and how quickly it has degenerated into a heap of racist mud slinging. As an Australian I am ashamed of the blackface skit on this TV show, and the quality of writing from my fellow Australians, and their lack of logical reasoning, is another source of embarassment. But for American bloggers to cast all Australians as racist is in itself racist and renders your argument null and void. I'd also urge American readers to look at the situations in Irak and Afghanistan. Those were not Australian soldiers humiliating and beating (and in some cases murdering) Iraki prisoners. All races on earth have racist morons but it's equakky racist to cast every person in the same light.
353
NUMBER 16 says paul hogan should be chained to a rock. To late mate i think hoges has been sent up more ways than you lot could ever dream of, and we as aussies all laughed at that too. I think it was in a show call the Hoges show.
Fairdinkum we down under really do think different to you uncle sam mob.
Fairdinkum we down under really do think different to you uncle sam mob.
354
It was funny reading your stupid notes, but about time we should be talking about this racial shit, We see and hear it everday and I live in the Centre of Australia and am an Aboriginal who is a very hard working tax payer, "I have to mention this, because most of white Australian thinks we just sit on our fat asses and wait for our welfare handouts and child molesters, get out and look how hard we are trying to get on with this so called modern Australia. And every time we complain about cartoon of an Aboriginal, they (The Whites) say it's nothing why complain and just forget about it. Please you White Australian read our history books and theres even lots of stories been passed down from 200 hundred years ago that's not even writen in book, because no one wants to know about it, what went on here in the desert, Aboriginal people were shot like dogs and in some case it nearly wiped out tribes, so don't talk about American what they did in the passed think about your pass, at least they are trying to get on. THANK YOU VERY MUCH HARRY CONNICK JNR AND BY THE WAY I THINK YOU ARE A GOOD ACTOR AND SINGER, LOVE YOU
356
"'white cop shoots a young non-gang affiliated African-American boy in Compton and is subsequently set free by an all white jury'.
But I want to do something that offends aussies, so I'll stick with my 'drunk abo' stereotype. Now, no criticizing me, you're Australians, you don't like to pass judgement so I'm goon do the most offensive stereotype of an aboriginal I can in black face.
"Just because you have the money and strength in armoury to muscle in on other countries doesn't give you the right to."
Tell that to Fiji next time you invade....oh that's right, Fiji is big as your gun boats can take.
"I'm an Australian female political science graduate with a keen interest on culture"
Sure, Sheila....
But I want to do something that offends aussies, so I'll stick with my 'drunk abo' stereotype. Now, no criticizing me, you're Australians, you don't like to pass judgement so I'm goon do the most offensive stereotype of an aboriginal I can in black face.
"Just because you have the money and strength in armoury to muscle in on other countries doesn't give you the right to."
Tell that to Fiji next time you invade....oh that's right, Fiji is big as your gun boats can take.
"I'm an Australian female political science graduate with a keen interest on culture"
Sure, Sheila....
357
It is of my personal opinion that this apparent 'racist' skit as led to a revalation of a different discrimation. That is, the apparent prejudice Americans have against Australians and the lack of cultural understanding that each society has for one another.
The amount of Americans that I keep reading, blasting Australia for our apparent lack of racial understanding and for being 'stuck in the past' in terms of our political correctness.
These opinions are subjective.
I am an Australian of Greek desent. My two best friends are of Taiwanese and Fijian desent. I think Australia is more advanced a lack of racism in the fact that we can all take the mickey of ourselves. I mostly cop flack from the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". I can laugh at myself and I have never been in a situation where race has been a problem. In fact this weekend I am attending Sydney Fijian Day where I'm being "adopted" by my best friends family.
The thing is with this skit is that it was never meant for an American audience and in Australia, generally, people have no idea that blackface is an offensive thing. This is because of our lack of history in terms of slavery like America. Granted the producers should have considered the American judge.
Another problem I have is the people attacking the crowd for applauding the act. It is of my opinion that they claped not out of delight of the 'aparent' racial implications but they claped because it was a taking the mickey of the Jackson Five. I would guess that at least 75% of the crowd had never heard of blackface before because it is not in our culture.
When looking at this situation, it is important that people consider the cultural context, rather than forcing theirs onto a situation which did not involve them in the first place. Like the comment listed in the blog, "Do we apologise to middle eastern countries for our TV showing semi-naked women?"
Food for thought?
More...
The amount of Americans that I keep reading, blasting Australia for our apparent lack of racial understanding and for being 'stuck in the past' in terms of our political correctness.
These opinions are subjective.
I am an Australian of Greek desent. My two best friends are of Taiwanese and Fijian desent. I think Australia is more advanced a lack of racism in the fact that we can all take the mickey of ourselves. I mostly cop flack from the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". I can laugh at myself and I have never been in a situation where race has been a problem. In fact this weekend I am attending Sydney Fijian Day where I'm being "adopted" by my best friends family.
The thing is with this skit is that it was never meant for an American audience and in Australia, generally, people have no idea that blackface is an offensive thing. This is because of our lack of history in terms of slavery like America. Granted the producers should have considered the American judge.
Another problem I have is the people attacking the crowd for applauding the act. It is of my opinion that they claped not out of delight of the 'aparent' racial implications but they claped because it was a taking the mickey of the Jackson Five. I would guess that at least 75% of the crowd had never heard of blackface before because it is not in our culture.
When looking at this situation, it is important that people consider the cultural context, rather than forcing theirs onto a situation which did not involve them in the first place. Like the comment listed in the blog, "Do we apologise to middle eastern countries for our TV showing semi-naked women?"
Food for thought?
358
"But for American bloggers to cast all Australians as racist"
no one said that, what we've said is Australia isn't some mystical p[lace where everyone gets along and there is no racism.
"Those were not Australian soldiers humiliating and beating (and in some cases murdering) Iraki prisoners"
OK, but what has that got to do with 5 Australian doctors dressing up as black faced sambos?
no one said that, what we've said is Australia isn't some mystical p[lace where everyone gets along and there is no racism.
"Those were not Australian soldiers humiliating and beating (and in some cases murdering) Iraki prisoners"
OK, but what has that got to do with 5 Australian doctors dressing up as black faced sambos?
359
"Australia is more advanced a lack of racism in the fact that we can all take the mickey of ourselves"
Yes, I'll admit it, your racist humor is much better than ours. Now run along and learn to speak the Queen's English why don't you.
Yes, I'll admit it, your racist humor is much better than ours. Now run along and learn to speak the Queen's English why don't you.
360
Too true #354. At school, our history education pretty well began at the 'first fleet' and rare mention was given to the injustices that occurred to our indigenous population. When undertaking two indigenous studies classes at Uni this was a regular point of mention by my lecturer, who was quite disgusted with our misguided recall of history in schooling. I see this as a huge issue also, and really hope that our education system has progressed beyond that by now. An earlier blogger (sorry but there's just too many comments to be bothered sifting through but you know who you are) tried to justify these atrocities with a Wikepedia notion that Aboriginies were seen as a dying race. How embarrassing to read such rubbish from an Australian! I really do hope that the majority of Australians don't view Aboriginal Australians as you say they do, but I can't accurately comment on the opinions of the majority. All I can say is that's certainly not my viewpoint. And I haven't and won't comment on the situation in America, because I really do believe that if we all stopped pointing the finger and instead focused on making own countries equal (apparently I can't say 'non-racist), the world would be a better place overall.
361
Oh, for God's sake. Can't we just admit it was insensitive and not get our knickers in a twist about it? And if I have to put up with another wide-eyed stare of 'Oh we're not racist, we're beyond that, we don't even NOTICE race' from my countrymen and women, I'm going to emigrate.
Of all the skits the host of Hey Hey could have chosen to bring back (the skit was originally performed on the show in 1989), he chose that one. Doesn't that seem a little weird? I don't care how racist America or Britain or Germany is, we need to deal with the wilful ignorance in our own land. When I lived in the UK (doing pub work, a great way to meet a real cross-section of locals) I was often used as a sounding-board for other peoples' racism. Ie - she's Aussie, she'd be alright with me talking about Nigerians and lost tax dollars.' A lot of Brits move to Australia for the comfortable racism as much as they do for the sun.
I think the skit was innocently performed, but most of the Aussie comments on here make us look like a bunch of uneducated, OVERsensitive d*cks.
Of all the skits the host of Hey Hey could have chosen to bring back (the skit was originally performed on the show in 1989), he chose that one. Doesn't that seem a little weird? I don't care how racist America or Britain or Germany is, we need to deal with the wilful ignorance in our own land. When I lived in the UK (doing pub work, a great way to meet a real cross-section of locals) I was often used as a sounding-board for other peoples' racism. Ie - she's Aussie, she'd be alright with me talking about Nigerians and lost tax dollars.' A lot of Brits move to Australia for the comfortable racism as much as they do for the sun.
I think the skit was innocently performed, but most of the Aussie comments on here make us look like a bunch of uneducated, OVERsensitive d*cks.
362
@ #361 Or maybe you make us look like "uneducated, OVERsensitive d*cks"?
@ #358 To quote you-
""But for American bloggers to cast all Australians as racist"
no one said that"
Maybe you should read up on it a bit- Australians are being ripped to shreds over a difference in cultural context.
@ #358 To quote you-
""But for American bloggers to cast all Australians as racist"
no one said that"
Maybe you should read up on it a bit- Australians are being ripped to shreds over a difference in cultural context.
363
"we can all take the mickey of ourselves"
Is that why everytime I've visited cosmopolitan Sydney (4 times now) with my 3rd generation Chinese/Korean wife, she's had to endure being called a 'Jap', 'Jappo' and 'Chink' in ordinary conversations with ordinary Aussies? Seriously, it happens everytime we've been and not from Aussie rednecks, these were well educated people apparently.
Now, apparently the problem was with my wife for taking offense! I've always told her she was a stupid chink who didn't know how to give and take the mickey.
Is that why everytime I've visited cosmopolitan Sydney (4 times now) with my 3rd generation Chinese/Korean wife, she's had to endure being called a 'Jap', 'Jappo' and 'Chink' in ordinary conversations with ordinary Aussies? Seriously, it happens everytime we've been and not from Aussie rednecks, these were well educated people apparently.
Now, apparently the problem was with my wife for taking offense! I've always told her she was a stupid chink who didn't know how to give and take the mickey.
364
Re my previous comment (#360), I should probably mention to be fair to any Australians currently in school years that my high school education ended 15 years ago - only a few years after the Michael Jackson skit in mention was able to be aired on television without any backlash. And yes, #361, it was insensitive, and I am still struggling to understand how not one person of any influence in Channel nine was intelligent enough to work that out themselves before it went to air. Thank God for the ABC - guess there's no need for the remote control now!
365
@359
Well if it is the Queen's English then one prefers 'humour' not 'humor'.
As a side note - funny that you needed Britain to drum up global support for your Middle East sojourns. Guess we're not the only ones still tied to old blighty.
Carry on though - your missives are very orginal.
Well if it is the Queen's English then one prefers 'humour' not 'humor'.
As a side note - funny that you needed Britain to drum up global support for your Middle East sojourns. Guess we're not the only ones still tied to old blighty.
Carry on though - your missives are very orginal.
366
As an Australian, I see, and also bare the brunt of, racist remarks, made "as jokes". I'm sick of the "Aussie way of life" and "national larrikinism" being used as a flimsy throwaway excuse for what is really a dark, underlying (and at the same time overt) thread of xenophobia in this country. The doctors may not have been trying to be racist, but their actions were racially offensive. Accidental manslaughter still ends in the taking of a human life, regardless of whether the intent was there or not.
Cause and effect.
Cause and effect.
368
@ tlb001- did you not see the Chasers skit? You know the one that every knows about.
Seriously in my opinion telling dying children that theres no point in giving them anyting because they are going to die is worse than preform a skit in naivity.
No TV channel is really safe.
Seriously in my opinion telling dying children that theres no point in giving them anyting because they are going to die is worse than preform a skit in naivity.
No TV channel is really safe.
369
WTF!!! so many people defending this crap is making it so much worse. I wonder why I had to be born into a country full of such backward and pervasively STUPID people. Spare a thought for those Australians like me who are deeply embarrassed at this and other racist incidents, and who struggle against various forms of this kind of bull**** every day.. ignorance of this kind is not limited to race but includes gender, culture and religion... GET ME OUT OF HERE > > > !!!
370
"Well if it is the Queen's English then one prefers 'humour' not 'humor'. "
Yes, Australians are ruled by inbred German royals and speak English with French spelling. Seriously, no wonder the Fijians hate being invaded by you/
Maybe you should have had a revolution like we did, old chap. No more putting that old tart Elizabeth on your money.
Yes, Australians are ruled by inbred German royals and speak English with French spelling. Seriously, no wonder the Fijians hate being invaded by you/
Maybe you should have had a revolution like we did, old chap. No more putting that old tart Elizabeth on your money.
371
Of course it was insensitive and ill considered, if it were considered at all. Americans were offended. I am an American living in Oz and I was offended and felt a little embarrassed for Connick. But that's because I am American. As I wrote on my last visit to this site, I had to explain why I was uncomfortable from the outset to both my wife and daughter.
Australia has it's own history with the indigenous that is shameful and although better than it was two hundred years ago is still shameful beyond belief. Maybe a wake up call was needed. But to get that wake up call from Americans. We have to be kidding...
If we could get over the need to be so damn right when it comes to the rest of the world. Not every place is a shallow as the USA
I have just read the comments here since my post in the mid 50s and I am appalled at the language. Fnarf, you win the prize for most offensive.
When I was thirteen, I watched three men beat an aboriginal man on a sydney railway station while we pleaded for it to stop. When the police came, they took away the black man and even though I identified the three men, they were not even spoken to.
Most of us have seen real racism and the hurt that it causes... especially in America. Six doctors, two of whom were black doing an ill considered skit was not the best thing I have ever seen... but in context, some one is getting beaten up right now while bleeding hearts are reduced to name calling to make themselves feel better.
The other thing is many people seem to think military = strength... my navy is bigger than yours.. or 'you guys could not even take fiji' style comments. Well, we don't need to take fiji. It's a holiday place last time I checked... and a good one. Don't you start thinking about taking it as the 51st state. You'd spoil the beauty.
More...
Australia has it's own history with the indigenous that is shameful and although better than it was two hundred years ago is still shameful beyond belief. Maybe a wake up call was needed. But to get that wake up call from Americans. We have to be kidding...
If we could get over the need to be so damn right when it comes to the rest of the world. Not every place is a shallow as the USA
I have just read the comments here since my post in the mid 50s and I am appalled at the language. Fnarf, you win the prize for most offensive.
When I was thirteen, I watched three men beat an aboriginal man on a sydney railway station while we pleaded for it to stop. When the police came, they took away the black man and even though I identified the three men, they were not even spoken to.
Most of us have seen real racism and the hurt that it causes... especially in America. Six doctors, two of whom were black doing an ill considered skit was not the best thing I have ever seen... but in context, some one is getting beaten up right now while bleeding hearts are reduced to name calling to make themselves feel better.
The other thing is many people seem to think military = strength... my navy is bigger than yours.. or 'you guys could not even take fiji' style comments. Well, we don't need to take fiji. It's a holiday place last time I checked... and a good one. Don't you start thinking about taking it as the 51st state. You'd spoil the beauty.
372
"Spare a thought for those Australians like me who are deeply embarrassed at this and other racist incidents"
Don't worry dear, all my Aussie friends are like you ....fair minded people who wanted nothing more than to get the fuck out. But they still call my missus 'The Jap' even though she's a 3rd generation Asian American.
Don't worry dear, all my Aussie friends are like you ....fair minded people who wanted nothing more than to get the fuck out. But they still call my missus 'The Jap' even though she's a 3rd generation Asian American.
373
If you're looking for a country without stupid people you would be best to stay airbourne. Good luck with that.
374
@358 - ""But for American bloggers to cast all Australians as racist"... no one said that, what we've said is Australia isn't some mystical p[lace where everyone gets along and there is no racism.
Check back in this blog and you will see exactly those remarks my friend.
"Those were not Australian soldiers humiliating and beating (and in some cases murdering) Iraki prisoners"... OK, but what has that got to do with 5 Australian doctors dressing up as black faced sambos?
I'm merely making the point that all countries carry out racist attrocities. Neither the US or Australia is in a position to judge others when our own countrymen behave in this way.
Check back in this blog and you will see exactly those remarks my friend.
"Those were not Australian soldiers humiliating and beating (and in some cases murdering) Iraki prisoners"... OK, but what has that got to do with 5 Australian doctors dressing up as black faced sambos?
I'm merely making the point that all countries carry out racist attrocities. Neither the US or Australia is in a position to judge others when our own countrymen behave in this way.
375
"But to get that wake up call from Americans. We have to be kidding..."
Exactly, when Yanks think you're a racist, maybe there's a problem.
Exactly, when Yanks think you're a racist, maybe there's a problem.
376
"Neither the US or Australia is in a position to judge others when our own countrymen behave in this way."
It wasn't the US, it was Harry Connick Junior....
It wasn't the US, it was Harry Connick Junior....
377
It sure is fun reading all the hand-wringing comments from the Aussies here. And I LOVE the commentators who think one of America's greatest STRENGTHS - freedom of speech - is something that ought to be criticized (see 350 for an example) My god, are all you morons getting your talking points from the same person?
379
#368 - Yes, THAT Chaser skit. You're right - no TV Channel is really safe. I guess they're all a reflection of society - a percentage of good and a percentage of totally moronic. I do believe the percentage is a lot lower on the ABC and SBS for that matter as compared to the commercial stations. For the record, I haven't watcher Chaser since. Maybe there is a need for the remote then - to turn it off with as required!
380
to fifty two eigthy....we don't call Aborigines ..abos.... because it is the most degrading term there is...but then again you live in a country that still has the KKK,took over 200yrs to elect a black president and hey its all right for harry connick jr to paint he's face black(check you tube) but when someone else happens to do it that's not a yank you get all righteous... so do the world a favor and get your head out of your ass's and worry about problems like invading countries that you shouldn't and not helping countries that you should as far as most Aussies think..... you rednecks are the most racist nation in the world........PS so it's alright for two black men to dress up as white girls and make a movie and get laughs but not the other way around................now that should give you something to bitch about
381
Even some of the Australians on here are admiting that Australians are racist. All of you need to stop trying to lie and defend your pathetic, racist ways.
383
yes scaramanga I can see you are a clear voice of reason. We never wanted 15 minutes of fame and bring on the chinese... we love their food!
hey, whose that idiot who keeps bringing his wife down here to be insulted by everyone. Four times? The only person who like your wife less than Aussie's apparently do is you mate. If I take my wife to a country and she's insulted several times on the first visit, I don't take her back another three times.
Stop repeating yourself... yawn.
hey, whose that idiot who keeps bringing his wife down here to be insulted by everyone. Four times? The only person who like your wife less than Aussie's apparently do is you mate. If I take my wife to a country and she's insulted several times on the first visit, I don't take her back another three times.
Stop repeating yourself... yawn.
385
Anyone calling this 'Australian humour' and saying 'Americans don't understand' is a moron. I'm Australian and this was blatantly racist. Whether it was done with the intention of being racist is another thing. But for most Australians things like this are socially acceptable because they have no exposure to the pain and offense it causes people of African American descent.
People can go 'oh, Robert Downey, oh, White chicks' it's not the issue... Two rights don't make a wrong. Because two black men played white females in a movie doesn't excuse this skit as being racist. Also white people weren't suppressed for decades, used as slaves, ridiculed with ridiculous minstrel shows etc.
It was racist.... it was a skit from 20 years ago... Should have stayed there along with the show.
People can go 'oh, Robert Downey, oh, White chicks' it's not the issue... Two rights don't make a wrong. Because two black men played white females in a movie doesn't excuse this skit as being racist. Also white people weren't suppressed for decades, used as slaves, ridiculed with ridiculous minstrel shows etc.
It was racist.... it was a skit from 20 years ago... Should have stayed there along with the show.
388
So anyway, as I was saying to my wife the other night while watching Hey Hey, you don't see enough of these minstrel shows these days. There's certainly a niche market - it was very popular. The only problem is I would I have to travel to the US to learn the true art of the minstrel - those blokes the other night were only amateurs
389
I'm sorry... you're disgusted by a skit that was intended as a sign of devotion to Michael Jackson, and was targeted towards the Australian audience, which we must all admit has a different sence of humour (and may not see some things as racist). If the intent is such as a sign of respect to Michael via a skit (the only way they know how), can it really be considered a racist act.
Actually, I am far more disgusted by the title and comments in this. 'Australians: Post-Race Miracle Humans or RACIST IDIOTS'? Geesh, you guys are generalising much. I'm sure you guys don't like various stereotypes which could be extended to you, such as fat, or red-necks etc. No wonder some of my fellow Australians are getting riled up...
And by the way... I'm wondering how many of those that have responded are actually dark-skinned...
Oh and just some comments...
@70
I don’t know where you’ve been hearing the word ‘abo’ but if I heard someone use it nearly everyone I know, and myself would be seriously disgusted at them.
@82
Exactly! Thank you!
@116
“The only thing you know need to know about Australia is that everyone's drunk 99% of the time.”
Grow up and get your facts straight -.-
@247
Ahhh I’m an Australian as well, but I actually disagree with you about the nicknames... I know for a fact that people take offence to names such as wog and poms.
@324
Well said
@336
Takes one to know one.
See, I can be childish too ;)
@359
“"Australia is more advanced a lack of racism in the fact that we can all take the mickey of ourselves"
Yes, I'll admit it, your racist humor is much better than ours. Now run along and learn to speak the Queen's English why don't you.”
Simply cause someone views our sence of humour (australian spelling ;D) as rascist, doesn't make it so.
@366
That is a completely different situation. Comparing manslaughter to this skit, is completely stupid and ignorant.
@382
‘Australia; former British colony, future Chinese colony. You've had your 15 minutes of fame.’
You really think of us that cheaply? You are by far one of the most ignorant person ever.
More...
Actually, I am far more disgusted by the title and comments in this. 'Australians: Post-Race Miracle Humans or RACIST IDIOTS'? Geesh, you guys are generalising much. I'm sure you guys don't like various stereotypes which could be extended to you, such as fat, or red-necks etc. No wonder some of my fellow Australians are getting riled up...
And by the way... I'm wondering how many of those that have responded are actually dark-skinned...
Oh and just some comments...
@70
I don’t know where you’ve been hearing the word ‘abo’ but if I heard someone use it nearly everyone I know, and myself would be seriously disgusted at them.
@82
Exactly! Thank you!
@116
“The only thing you know need to know about Australia is that everyone's drunk 99% of the time.”
Grow up and get your facts straight -.-
@247
Ahhh I’m an Australian as well, but I actually disagree with you about the nicknames... I know for a fact that people take offence to names such as wog and poms.
@324
Well said
@336
Takes one to know one.
See, I can be childish too ;)
@359
“"Australia is more advanced a lack of racism in the fact that we can all take the mickey of ourselves"
Yes, I'll admit it, your racist humor is much better than ours. Now run along and learn to speak the Queen's English why don't you.”
Simply cause someone views our sence of humour (australian spelling ;D) as rascist, doesn't make it so.
@366
That is a completely different situation. Comparing manslaughter to this skit, is completely stupid and ignorant.
@382
‘Australia; former British colony, future Chinese colony. You've had your 15 minutes of fame.’
You really think of us that cheaply? You are by far one of the most ignorant person ever.
390
Oh dear me. I can't wait to travel overseas again soon. Looking forward to being treated like...well....like, Americans!
391
Anyone mentioned the fact that these guys are actually Indian decent? How about the Ben Stiller movie Tropic Thunder? Wasn't there an award given to a white man who was painted as a black man with an Aussie accent? Jackson jive were black men performing a tribute to black men! Where is the story?
392
@382 Australia; former British colony, future Chinese colony. You've had your 15 minutes of fame.’
America: former British Colony. future third world country....
This from a country that has no problem in solving its poverty issue by sending them off to die in foreign wars whilst being screwed by its own corporations and politicians . Alas, Capitalism at its best.
Your foreign policy since "world greatnest" was thrust upon you consists of either
1. Backing regimes that kill their own citizens
2. Staging coups to put in pro US cronies so you can sell the locals Coca-Cola and Macfucks
3. Bombing the shit out of anyone who actually indicates "hey, I don't want you branded McFlurry sytle of democracy"
4. Fighting wars by proxy with go old USA engineering and munitions.
5. Fuck everyone else's culture if it ain't American it ain't no good.
6."We come in peace..shoot to kill men..."
To the rest of the world you guys and gals are a bunch of hypocritical, uneducated, greedy, corrupt sociapaths.
And to put it quite frankly no one really cares what you dumb fucks thinks about us. You should be more concerned how you are viewed by the rest of the world. Hey even your neighbours think you are all a bunch of stupid egocentric morons. Sorry America you are nothing more than a sad pathetic joke of a nation, that just couldn't cut it and thinks nothing more than shafting itself in the arse for the almighty dollar.
Have a look who controls your trillions of dollars of debt.....I'd be jumping on my camel to go and get some wantons...just to blend in the future scaramanga the anal tunga.
America: former British Colony. future third world country....
This from a country that has no problem in solving its poverty issue by sending them off to die in foreign wars whilst being screwed by its own corporations and politicians . Alas, Capitalism at its best.
Your foreign policy since "world greatnest" was thrust upon you consists of either
1. Backing regimes that kill their own citizens
2. Staging coups to put in pro US cronies so you can sell the locals Coca-Cola and Macfucks
3. Bombing the shit out of anyone who actually indicates "hey, I don't want you branded McFlurry sytle of democracy"
4. Fighting wars by proxy with go old USA engineering and munitions.
5. Fuck everyone else's culture if it ain't American it ain't no good.
6."We come in peace..shoot to kill men..."
To the rest of the world you guys and gals are a bunch of hypocritical, uneducated, greedy, corrupt sociapaths.
And to put it quite frankly no one really cares what you dumb fucks thinks about us. You should be more concerned how you are viewed by the rest of the world. Hey even your neighbours think you are all a bunch of stupid egocentric morons. Sorry America you are nothing more than a sad pathetic joke of a nation, that just couldn't cut it and thinks nothing more than shafting itself in the arse for the almighty dollar.
Have a look who controls your trillions of dollars of debt.....I'd be jumping on my camel to go and get some wantons...just to blend in the future scaramanga the anal tunga.
393
Yeah, no one has mentioned that yet mate - I think you're the first.
There is this great thing called a scroll bar and it's on the right side of your screen. I've heard it goes up and down as well but I haven't tested the theory yet myself. Apparently you can look at things people have posted many times before and in great detail.
I've also heard that people appreciate reading the same point of view repeated about 391 times without deviation or any new input on the subject at hand.
From what I understand it's also important to cry racism early and often, reinforce stereotypes and generally wave a big flag. It can be tricky, but I hear there a many experts here doing a splendid job of it so stick with the sheeple...ah...I mean people and you should get the hang of it.
There is this great thing called a scroll bar and it's on the right side of your screen. I've heard it goes up and down as well but I haven't tested the theory yet myself. Apparently you can look at things people have posted many times before and in great detail.
I've also heard that people appreciate reading the same point of view repeated about 391 times without deviation or any new input on the subject at hand.
From what I understand it's also important to cry racism early and often, reinforce stereotypes and generally wave a big flag. It can be tricky, but I hear there a many experts here doing a splendid job of it so stick with the sheeple...ah...I mean people and you should get the hang of it.
394
cudos to the aussies who admitted it was offensive and apologised. i'm an american who has been living in oz for 7 years now. both countries are definately racist, but it seems to me that americans are more likely to speak out against racism, whereas many aussies tend to laugh it off or ignore it. i think that approach is tantamount to condoning it.
i'm puzzled as to why racists such as pauline hanson end up on mainstream women's magazine covers and shows like "dancing with the stars." she should be shunned by the mainstream media. and why is it that indigenous activist stephen hagan is the target of so much hatred? for 10 years he (along with many non indigenous australians) fought to have the name "nigger stand" removed because he didn't want his children to grow up thinking "nigger" was an acceptable term. how dare he challenge the status quo! yes, i know. many white aussies don't think "nigger" is offensive, however, "nigger" used to be an acceptable term in the U.S. as well, but they changed with the times. and what's up with those creepy looking golliwog dolls? before anyone tells me they're just a doll, please read the following:
http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/golliwog/
i'm not saying the U.S. is superior to OZ. the states has problems too numerous to list, but because they have a larger, vocal minority population, they are forced to address racism. that being said, native american human rights have been grossly violated and americans need to address that.
i'm puzzled as to why racists such as pauline hanson end up on mainstream women's magazine covers and shows like "dancing with the stars." she should be shunned by the mainstream media. and why is it that indigenous activist stephen hagan is the target of so much hatred? for 10 years he (along with many non indigenous australians) fought to have the name "nigger stand" removed because he didn't want his children to grow up thinking "nigger" was an acceptable term. how dare he challenge the status quo! yes, i know. many white aussies don't think "nigger" is offensive, however, "nigger" used to be an acceptable term in the U.S. as well, but they changed with the times. and what's up with those creepy looking golliwog dolls? before anyone tells me they're just a doll, please read the following:
http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/golliwog/
i'm not saying the U.S. is superior to OZ. the states has problems too numerous to list, but because they have a larger, vocal minority population, they are forced to address racism. that being said, native american human rights have been grossly violated and americans need to address that.
395
I'm wondering what the reaction would have been on 'Hey Hey' if the Doctors had done the performance in front of a room full of aboriginals?
Also, what does one of the doctors being Indian have to do with it? He's not black, he's indian, there's a difference you know or is anyone darker than pink in Australia considered 'colored'. And since when can INdians not be racist towards blacks?
Also, what does one of the doctors being Indian have to do with it? He's not black, he's indian, there's a difference you know or is anyone darker than pink in Australia considered 'colored'. And since when can INdians not be racist towards blacks?
396
Look, here's the thing...
Connick did exactly the right thing by reacting the way he did. If he had yucked it up with the rest of the crowd then as soon as he set foot back in the US he would have been greeted as a racist lout who learned nothing from his own experiences performing a role in blackface on an American TV show.
Australians have the "luxury" of performing this way and it seeming innocent; Americans, with our history, do not. It would be similar to an American variety show inviting a German to be a judge then parading a bunch of idiots dancing around with swastikas on their arms for him to judge. "What grade do you give the dancing SS boys, fraulein?"
I realize it's Australia and I get that you would be offended that hypocritical America is acting all self-righteous again by expressing offense at this but really - this was the only acceptable response - and in truth the only correct one.
I know that America is in no position to give lectures to anyone regarding racism but we can at least offer a painful example about how NOT to behave. We often even have to remind ourselves.
Connick did exactly the right thing by reacting the way he did. If he had yucked it up with the rest of the crowd then as soon as he set foot back in the US he would have been greeted as a racist lout who learned nothing from his own experiences performing a role in blackface on an American TV show.
Australians have the "luxury" of performing this way and it seeming innocent; Americans, with our history, do not. It would be similar to an American variety show inviting a German to be a judge then parading a bunch of idiots dancing around with swastikas on their arms for him to judge. "What grade do you give the dancing SS boys, fraulein?"
I realize it's Australia and I get that you would be offended that hypocritical America is acting all self-righteous again by expressing offense at this but really - this was the only acceptable response - and in truth the only correct one.
I know that America is in no position to give lectures to anyone regarding racism but we can at least offer a painful example about how NOT to behave. We often even have to remind ourselves.
397
We Americans know our country is racist. We didn't know quite how racist it was until we elected President Obama, but we do know and admit it is racist. HOWEVER!!! We do not make excuse for those who are, we do not make excuses for it, we call people out on it. And as mnkygrl stated, our minorities are vocal and pugnacious! They are more willing to fight the status quo.
The majority of Australians trolling this tread, however, have responded with "How dare you call us racist! Australians are never racist! How dare you bring up our past white-only immigration policies and the Stolen Generation! You owned slaves 150 years ago! Only Americans are racist. All Americans are stupid" Well, we're certainly convinced Australians aren't biased now with your wonderfully intelligent comments.
The majority of Australians trolling this tread, however, have responded with "How dare you call us racist! Australians are never racist! How dare you bring up our past white-only immigration policies and the Stolen Generation! You owned slaves 150 years ago! Only Americans are racist. All Americans are stupid" Well, we're certainly convinced Australians aren't biased now with your wonderfully intelligent comments.
398
"Australians have the "luxury" of performing this way and it seeming innocent; Americans, with our history, do not. "
Unless you know the history of aboriginal slavery and mass murder in Australia.....again, these doctors would have NEVER done this if the entire audience had been aboriginals. Never.
Unless you know the history of aboriginal slavery and mass murder in Australia.....again, these doctors would have NEVER done this if the entire audience had been aboriginals. Never.
399
@315 "you are defender of Australia's white, Christian ladies against the Muslim hordes in Australia."
Just wanted to say I don't know what you're getting at, given that I think modern Cristianity is a sort of sick joke, and have respect for Muslim people. Although, in my opinion the zealots on each side who think either faith is worth killing someone over are both as dumb as the next.
But, this is getting pretty off-topic. Almost at 400 posts, crikey! I sure hope this huge debate is simmering down... I don't think anyone's views are going to be changed in a positive way, no matter how much the post count continues.
Just wanted to say I don't know what you're getting at, given that I think modern Cristianity is a sort of sick joke, and have respect for Muslim people. Although, in my opinion the zealots on each side who think either faith is worth killing someone over are both as dumb as the next.
But, this is getting pretty off-topic. Almost at 400 posts, crikey! I sure hope this huge debate is simmering down... I don't think anyone's views are going to be changed in a positive way, no matter how much the post count continues.
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