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News & ArtsTuesday, October 6, 2009
Politics I-1033: Voters Might Actually Be That Stupid
Posted by Will Kelley-Kamp on Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:02 PM
Like I said, it’s not an exaggeration to describe I-1033 as the end of state government as we know it. In fact, the consequences would be so unbelievably dramatic that there is almost a sense of complacency amongst the opposition—we simply can’t believe that the majority of voters could be so stupid as to pass such an incredibly irresponsible measure.
But voters can be that stupid, and I don't think it's elitest to say so.
One day earlier this year, I was leaving the Redmond Target when I ran into a signature gatherer for 1033. He was making all sorts of claims about it: everybody gets a tax cut, it would protect education and public safety, and that it would be fiscally responsible. All of this is pretty much false.
So I did the only thing you CAN do in this case: I told people not to sign it.
I dissuaded a few folks immediately, but one lady was pretty pissed off. "Where's your initiative, huh? All I see here is you criticizing him for his initiative. Where's yours, huh?" I tried to explain, but with some folks there's no getting through. Some folks will sign anything, if you ask them to.
1
yeah.
stupid enough to pass 1033.
and dump R71.
a two-fer.
a smorgasborg of stupidity.
can't wait...
stupid enough to pass 1033.
and dump R71.
a two-fer.
a smorgasborg of stupidity.
can't wait...
4
Could anyone out there who knows more about state laws than I do explain something to me? What's to keep the legislature from overturning the law (assuming they have the votes)? Is there something about initiatives that makes them extra-super-duper binding?
6
@4: fear of the voters. the car tabs initiative was overturned by the supreme court, and the legislature made it law almost immediately. out of fear.
8
"Where's your initiative, huh? All I see here is you criticizing him for his initiative. Where's yours, huh?"
I don't know what's more maddening: the idiocy and irrelevance of this argument, or the knowledge that there really are people out there trying to make it.
I don't know what's more maddening: the idiocy and irrelevance of this argument, or the knowledge that there really are people out there trying to make it.
9
Just tell the people of your fine state to look at the fucked up budget of California. Thanks a lot you Howard Jarvis Assholes!
10
The proper answer to "where's your initiative?" is "Ma'am, that's what we elect legislators to do - craft and pass laws. They are better educated on the issues than most of us, as they devote more time to it. If I feel a legislator is doing a poor job of this, I will work to elect a better representative. But bypassing the legislative process with poorly-thought-out and badly-written citizen initiatives is a recipe for disaster."
11
Given the craven cowardice of our legislature in response to Tim E in the past, maybe Seattle should form it's own State and shrug off the inefficient excess baggage of the nutters like Tim.
14
Clearly voters ARE stupid. Millions of them voted for Barack Obama thinking they were voting for change, thinking they were voting to end the wars, thinking they were voting for health care reform, thinking they were voting for ANYTHING good. And they weren't. Smart voters know that you can't change anything at the ballot box because politicians don't give a fuck what we think. Ass, cash, or grass: no one rides for free.
15
", it’s not an exaggeration to describe I-1033 as the end of state government as we know it"
Actually that is an exaggeration. THanks for playing.
Actually that is an exaggeration. THanks for playing.
16
11
yeah
because Seattle is such a 'shining city on the hill' example of enlightened efficient government.
good one...
yeah
because Seattle is such a 'shining city on the hill' example of enlightened efficient government.
good one...
18
Doom and gloom. Christ, idiots all. Remember, you can always send a check, or cash, or better yet give the State your credit card number and fund those pet programs of yours. No one is stopping you from paying more. WHAT? YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY MORE? Don't expect me or others to have YOUR pet projects. No the state will not collapse into barbaric anarchy. NO we will not have mobs of starving children eating dogs and cats. NO we will not be a lawless state with vigilante mobs doing the job of the police. NO this is not the end of the state. Cut the crap.
19
Actually the problem with initiatives in the short term is that the Washington State Constitution says that in the first two years after they pass they can only be amended by a 2/3 vote of the Legislature . That is a pretty steep hurdle.
But it was put in the Constitution back in the era of progressive change because the Legislature was controlled by the Big Businesses of the time like the railroads which could easily throw out something the voters passed.
After 2 years changes can be made with a simple majority vote of the Legislature but they are usually reluctant to do so.
Eyman's I-960 tied up the Legislature in the last session by requiring a 2/3 vote to raise any taxes or fees or even eliminate any tax exemptions for special interests because Eyman called that a tax increase. The two year limitation on amending I-960 is this Dec. Eyman is hoping to stop them having the ability to raise any taxes net year by getting I-1033 passed which requires a public vote to raise taxes.
But it was put in the Constitution back in the era of progressive change because the Legislature was controlled by the Big Businesses of the time like the railroads which could easily throw out something the voters passed.
After 2 years changes can be made with a simple majority vote of the Legislature but they are usually reluctant to do so.
Eyman's I-960 tied up the Legislature in the last session by requiring a 2/3 vote to raise any taxes or fees or even eliminate any tax exemptions for special interests because Eyman called that a tax increase. The two year limitation on amending I-960 is this Dec. Eyman is hoping to stop them having the ability to raise any taxes net year by getting I-1033 passed which requires a public vote to raise taxes.
20
I-1033 would impose a radical change in Washington State in both how we govern and how we tax. Most people don't know the details of what Eyman is really proposing in the fine print and buy his line that all we doing is slowing down government growth. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do you really trust that Eyman would write a reasonable or workable measure based on what he's proposed in the past?
The significant changes Eyman is proposing:
1. Freeze all public spending. The nonsense about limiting growth is just that. Eyman says government spending shall be limited to this years spending level, drastically reduced by the recession. He talks about allowing for inflation and population growth but that's just mumbo jumbo. Colorado tried Eyman's approach and had declines every year in public services for education, health care and road repair and much more.
Eyman's adjustment for inflation does not allow growth of public services. All that does is allow you to buy this year's services next year at their inflated price. And population adjustment means more people need services. Eyman's inflation factor is the implicit price deflator which tracks consumer goods, not public services. He also uses a national factor not a regional one.
2. Remove the ability of public officials to spend any money over this year's budget, even if new tax dollars come in as the recession eases. This is removing a power our elected representatives have had since statehood. Eyman proposes that any new money for services like adding police or repairing roads would have to be approved by a vote of the people.
Eyman doesn't think the people we're voting for are to be trusted to run things as he wants. So he's sneaking in restrictions to take away their powers. So mush for local control of our cities and counties.
3. Putting in place a significant tax shift by transferring tax dollars to wealthy property owners and further concentrating wealth in the hands of a few. Sales taxes in 2008 for example were about 54% of state revenue. When the economy improves more sales tax dollars will come in, pushing over Eyman's spending limit and requiring redistribution to pay property taxes.
Let's just ignore the fact that not everyone owns property says Eyman to himself. Renters make up 35% of the households in Washington State. They will not see any reduction in taxes and also not get any tax rebate. Their tax dollars will ease the property tax burden of more wealthy people who own property. Our tax system will become more regressive as more of the tax burden is shifted onto lower income folks, particularly those that don't own property.
Another fact hidden in I-1033 is that these property tax rebates will also go to business. About 1/3 of property taxes paid are for commercial real estate. So everyone will also be helping corporations and shopping malls and real estate developers pay their property taxes.
A vote for I-1033 is a vote for you to help pay Kemper Freeman's property taxes as well as for Boeing and Paul Allen.
So voters beware. Trust Tim Eyman at your peril. He's about to pick your pocket and give your tax dollars to his rich friends like Kemper Freeman and Michael Dunmire.. Don't take my word for it. Read the initiative yourself and figure out what it does.
http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/ini…
More...
The significant changes Eyman is proposing:
1. Freeze all public spending. The nonsense about limiting growth is just that. Eyman says government spending shall be limited to this years spending level, drastically reduced by the recession. He talks about allowing for inflation and population growth but that's just mumbo jumbo. Colorado tried Eyman's approach and had declines every year in public services for education, health care and road repair and much more.
Eyman's adjustment for inflation does not allow growth of public services. All that does is allow you to buy this year's services next year at their inflated price. And population adjustment means more people need services. Eyman's inflation factor is the implicit price deflator which tracks consumer goods, not public services. He also uses a national factor not a regional one.
2. Remove the ability of public officials to spend any money over this year's budget, even if new tax dollars come in as the recession eases. This is removing a power our elected representatives have had since statehood. Eyman proposes that any new money for services like adding police or repairing roads would have to be approved by a vote of the people.
Eyman doesn't think the people we're voting for are to be trusted to run things as he wants. So he's sneaking in restrictions to take away their powers. So mush for local control of our cities and counties.
3. Putting in place a significant tax shift by transferring tax dollars to wealthy property owners and further concentrating wealth in the hands of a few. Sales taxes in 2008 for example were about 54% of state revenue. When the economy improves more sales tax dollars will come in, pushing over Eyman's spending limit and requiring redistribution to pay property taxes.
Let's just ignore the fact that not everyone owns property says Eyman to himself. Renters make up 35% of the households in Washington State. They will not see any reduction in taxes and also not get any tax rebate. Their tax dollars will ease the property tax burden of more wealthy people who own property. Our tax system will become more regressive as more of the tax burden is shifted onto lower income folks, particularly those that don't own property.
Another fact hidden in I-1033 is that these property tax rebates will also go to business. About 1/3 of property taxes paid are for commercial real estate. So everyone will also be helping corporations and shopping malls and real estate developers pay their property taxes.
A vote for I-1033 is a vote for you to help pay Kemper Freeman's property taxes as well as for Boeing and Paul Allen.
So voters beware. Trust Tim Eyman at your peril. He's about to pick your pocket and give your tax dollars to his rich friends like Kemper Freeman and Michael Dunmire.. Don't take my word for it. Read the initiative yourself and figure out what it does.
http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/ini…
21
On stupid voters: Am I imagining things, or do I recall an election—my memory says about 1997—when a voter tax revolt led to the cancellation of King County's Emergency Medical Services? And am I still imagining things when these proud tax rebels joined the chorus of people screaming for a special election to be set up in order to restore basic EMS funding as fast as humanly possible?
Voters can't be that stupid? How many people did I know who voted for $30 car tabs, and then complained when the road repairs they killed with the same vote never occurred?
I mean, it's entirely possible I'm hallucinating. I spent most of the '90s higher than Christ. But ... I don't know. Help me out here. Anybody? Anybody? Where am I getting this absurd idea about the EMS vote?
Voters can't be that stupid? How many people did I know who voted for $30 car tabs, and then complained when the road repairs they killed with the same vote never occurred?
I mean, it's entirely possible I'm hallucinating. I spent most of the '90s higher than Christ. But ... I don't know. Help me out here. Anybody? Anybody? Where am I getting this absurd idea about the EMS vote?
22
47% of all Americans pay no federal income taxes.
Zero.
Nada.
Zilch.
Most of them voted for Obama.
And worry that the rich don't pay their fair share.
And want the Federal government to provide their health care.
While they pay Zero Federal taxes.
1033 is a little like that.
The half of the country that pays all the taxes is getting tired of carrying the freeloaders.
And aren't going to take it anymore.
Now the freeloaders are starting to panic.
good.
Zero.
Nada.
Zilch.
Most of them voted for Obama.
And worry that the rich don't pay their fair share.
And want the Federal government to provide their health care.
While they pay Zero Federal taxes.
1033 is a little like that.
The half of the country that pays all the taxes is getting tired of carrying the freeloaders.
And aren't going to take it anymore.
Now the freeloaders are starting to panic.
good.
23
1033 has my support.
From a previous stranger article: "If passed by voters, the measure would lock Washington into its current budget—the worst budget the state has had in decades, owing to the recession—and prevent the budget from expanding when the economy improves. "
DUH! This is why we are having our current budget shortfall in the first place. Stranger, thank you for confirming I made the right choice to support 1033.
From a previous stranger article: "If passed by voters, the measure would lock Washington into its current budget—the worst budget the state has had in decades, owing to the recession—and prevent the budget from expanding when the economy improves. "
DUH! This is why we are having our current budget shortfall in the first place. Stranger, thank you for confirming I made the right choice to support 1033.
24
I am against initiatives, but if you are going to have initiatives, you need to ban signature gatherers and political campaigns from lying.
25
"47% of all Americans pay no federal income taxes."
98% of rich people are douchebags! I can make up statistics too!
"DUH! This is why we are having our current budget shortfall in the first place. Stranger, thank you for confirming I made the right choice to support 1033."
Eagle sausage is delicious! I can post non-sequiturs too!
"Doom and gloom. Christ, idiots all. Remember, you can always send a check, or cash, or better yet give the State your credit card number and fund those pet programs of yours. No one is stopping you from paying more. WHAT? YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY MORE? Don't expect me or others to have YOUR pet projects."
lmao you think education and social care funding are "pet projects." Are you really this retarded? Also, I'm pretty sure most people who don't support 1033 are also okay with raising taxes, but sure, just make up positions for your opponents to make them seem so contrary and inconsistent!
98% of rich people are douchebags! I can make up statistics too!
"DUH! This is why we are having our current budget shortfall in the first place. Stranger, thank you for confirming I made the right choice to support 1033."
Eagle sausage is delicious! I can post non-sequiturs too!
"Doom and gloom. Christ, idiots all. Remember, you can always send a check, or cash, or better yet give the State your credit card number and fund those pet programs of yours. No one is stopping you from paying more. WHAT? YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY MORE? Don't expect me or others to have YOUR pet projects."
lmao you think education and social care funding are "pet projects." Are you really this retarded? Also, I'm pretty sure most people who don't support 1033 are also okay with raising taxes, but sure, just make up positions for your opponents to make them seem so contrary and inconsistent!
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