Slog
News & ArtsMonday, October 5, 2009
Animals Three Pit Bulls Walk into Magnuson Park
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle on Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:57 PM
"I took my dog to Magnuson this morning, and these signs were up around the park," writes Slog tipper Josh, who goes on to say:
Could this story fit the negative stereotype about pit bulls and their owners more perfectly? That's because it's largely true. Not entirely true, of course — I have some friends who take care of foster dogs, and they have kept several wonderful pit bulls. But we've all seen the hyper-macho douchebags with their pit bulls that look like they're ready to rip your throat out. It's unfortunate that this culture exists around these dogs, but it does, and it ruins pit bulls for everyone else. Just like a high school can tell their students they can't wear all red or blue colors, even though there's nothing intrinsically wrong about wearing all red and blue, it still seems perfectly justified: young men wearing all red and blue has come to signify specific gang allegiance.
That number again, in case you saw something around noon on Saturday at the park: 437-7410. There's some more info on KOMO's site. (Thanks for that tip, Vanessa.)
1
That would be an apt analogy if the color red or the color blue occasionally ripped a person's throat out for no reason whatsoever.
2
This is what happens when people decide that their pet's should not be trained as a pet, instead treating them like "little people".
I seriously think this is part of the problem.
Dogs need to be trained like a dog. And that means discipline as well as love.
I seriously think this is part of the problem.
Dogs need to be trained like a dog. And that means discipline as well as love.
4
It constantly amazes me that Seattle, the "ban everything" capital of the world, has not yet joined the rest of the civilized world in banning these vicious animals.
5
people who need to own dogs that can accidentally kill you or other dogs are first rate douchebags. They have so many stories about blah blahblah it was the first time..the owner not the blah blahblah. Enough. When we see you, we know that you are the kind of person who does not give a shit about other people. Period. Euthazie these people.
6
if people are claiming these dogs are trained to protect their homes, then the dogs belong AT HOME, not out in public where they can oops accidentally kill other dogs or humans.
7
THREE pits? how hard can this be, animal control? you found me when i allowed my dog off-leash in an empty magnusson wetlands in a driving rainstorm in february.
8
@2 we handle our cat like a little person, and she's perfectly tolerable. She even lets us out sometimes.
9
"people who need to own dogs that can accidentally kill you or other dogs are first rate douchebags."
In other words, all dog owners. (?) How do I know if my dog can accidentally kill? Is there a test for that?
All (non-teacup) dogs are capable of killing. Hell, all animals are capable of killing.
Also, in case anyone cares here, boxers like the one that was killed are also traditionally fighting dogs. So, should we find the owner of that boxer and taunt him for having a dog that needed to be euthanized? Why the sympathy for the boxer?
In other words, all dog owners. (?) How do I know if my dog can accidentally kill? Is there a test for that?
All (non-teacup) dogs are capable of killing. Hell, all animals are capable of killing.
Also, in case anyone cares here, boxers like the one that was killed are also traditionally fighting dogs. So, should we find the owner of that boxer and taunt him for having a dog that needed to be euthanized? Why the sympathy for the boxer?
10
This also confirms that stereotype that some pit bull owners are chicken shit cowards who get these dogs to overcompensate for being whimps.
11
the KOMO link says that no one's contacted animal control to complain that their dog got killed. "too upset" is not a good reason. other dogs could get killed in the meantime.
why am i picturing a douche in all black with a tilted ball cap and skater shoes?
why am i picturing a douche in all black with a tilted ball cap and skater shoes?
12
@8 Sight unseen, I seriously doubt that your cat could inflict the kind of physical damage that an unrestrained pit bull could, so I think you're OK.
13
@5 - Most dogs over, say, 60 lbs are physically capable of killing an adult int he right situation (and if we're talking babies or kids, smaller dogs could be included). We are pretty puny animals, really. So, it doesn't have anything to do with owning a dog that's capable of killing, it's more about what you train and do not train your dog to do.
I'm opposed to a breed ban, but would definitely support measures like stricter/more expensive licensing, mandatory spaying/neutering without a breeder's license, steeper fines for no license or having dogs off leash, etc. Of course all that requires enforcement, but so does a breed ban....
I'm opposed to a breed ban, but would definitely support measures like stricter/more expensive licensing, mandatory spaying/neutering without a breeder's license, steeper fines for no license or having dogs off leash, etc. Of course all that requires enforcement, but so does a breed ban....
14
ummmm...what dog owner doesn't notice that their 2 large dogs are being torn apart by a pack of pit bulls? the beach access area isn't that big, it'd be hard not to see/hear this happening...
i smell agitprop/hoax.
i smell agitprop/hoax.
16
I just got back from Magnuson too and saw this.PLEASE note:
1)The dogs that attacked were UNALTERED
In 2007 33 people died in dog attacks...26 of 33 involved INTACT/ UNALTERED dogs
2)These A-hole owners had had problems with these dogs at the park previously...The owners were a tall skinny white dude with tats, a big black guy and a heavy-set brunette female..If ANYONE has info on these a-hole..PLEASE REPORT THEM!!! They should be charged, lose their dogs. be severely punished
3)This attack was tragic and preventable
No, I am not excusing this attack...It shouldn't have happened...but the fact that pits were involved speaks not to their breed, but to the ASSOHLES who owned them and fled the scene
When @ Golden Doodles killed a small dog at the same park..about 2 years ago...did we see that covered by the media?
1)The dogs that attacked were UNALTERED
In 2007 33 people died in dog attacks...26 of 33 involved INTACT/ UNALTERED dogs
2)These A-hole owners had had problems with these dogs at the park previously...The owners were a tall skinny white dude with tats, a big black guy and a heavy-set brunette female..If ANYONE has info on these a-hole..PLEASE REPORT THEM!!! They should be charged, lose their dogs. be severely punished
3)This attack was tragic and preventable
No, I am not excusing this attack...It shouldn't have happened...but the fact that pits were involved speaks not to their breed, but to the ASSOHLES who owned them and fled the scene
When @ Golden Doodles killed a small dog at the same park..about 2 years ago...did we see that covered by the media?
18
@1: Gangs. That's the analogy. They cause violence, and are primarily funded by crime. There is nothing wrong with the colors red and blue, in fact your eyes are adapted to see the colors red and blue specifically. They are wonderful colors. But they have become associated across the U.S. with gangs, because gangs use those as identifying colors. I have never desired to wear an all blue or red suit track suit with matching bandana, but if I did, I would not be shocked and horrified if people looked at me like I'm a gang member.
Same with pit bulls. Most of them are sweet, loyal, and affectionate dogs. But a small core of pit bull owners ruin their reputation, and how can we, as the general public, know which dogs are safe?
Same with pit bulls. Most of them are sweet, loyal, and affectionate dogs. But a small core of pit bull owners ruin their reputation, and how can we, as the general public, know which dogs are safe?
19
#13, this is true, but google "Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings Sept 1982-November 2006," and you'll note that with the exception of Rottweillers, the dog attacks by breed causing bodily harm were in the double digits for all breeds except for Pit Bulls, whose numbers were over 1,000. This was even more than double the number of attacks by Rottweillers.
The number of deaths caused by pit bulls was 104. The second highest fatality rate was 58, caused by Rotts.
That is a significant difference.
The report also states that pit bulls are also notorious for attacking seemingly without warning. I've had this happen to me twice in Seattle. Both times the dogs got loose and ran at me as I was walking down the street, but luckily for me the owners were close by in each case.
The number of deaths caused by pit bulls was 104. The second highest fatality rate was 58, caused by Rotts.
That is a significant difference.
The report also states that pit bulls are also notorious for attacking seemingly without warning. I've had this happen to me twice in Seattle. Both times the dogs got loose and ran at me as I was walking down the street, but luckily for me the owners were close by in each case.
20
Same with pit bulls. Most of them are sweet, loyal, and affectionate dogs. But a small core of pit bull owners ruin their reputation, and how can we, as the general public, know which dogs are safe?
The dead ones are safe.
All others are suspect.
The dead ones are safe.
All others are suspect.
21
@20, I say the same thing about blacks. Stereotypes are useful aren't they? Please wait while I go look up crime statistics and cite them as undeniable proof that black people are inherently dangerous and vicious.
22
@19..That info is from a FALSIFIED STUDY by Merrit Clifton In Animal People News.
The CDC reported 477 fatal dog attacks from 1982-2006
Clifton reports 264 from 1982-2006...and concludes that 60 % were by Pit bulls.
A discrepancy of more than 200 fatal attacks leave A LOT of question marks...WE DON'T KNOW what breeds were responsible for the unreported 200+ fatalities.
Unfortunately there is not a lot of accurate data on this...PLUS you have to factor in that pits make up a greater percentage of the dog population than is reported...Data is often obtained through AKC registries and Pitbulls are unrecognized by the AKC....
Just look in any shelter and you will see that pit bulls are likely the most common/ 2nd most common dog in a given area...though the stats won't say this directly
The CDC reported 477 fatal dog attacks from 1982-2006
Clifton reports 264 from 1982-2006...and concludes that 60 % were by Pit bulls.
A discrepancy of more than 200 fatal attacks leave A LOT of question marks...WE DON'T KNOW what breeds were responsible for the unreported 200+ fatalities.
Unfortunately there is not a lot of accurate data on this...PLUS you have to factor in that pits make up a greater percentage of the dog population than is reported...Data is often obtained through AKC registries and Pitbulls are unrecognized by the AKC....
Just look in any shelter and you will see that pit bulls are likely the most common/ 2nd most common dog in a given area...though the stats won't say this directly
24
@20: I'm suspecting you mean this ironically, but they're just fucking dogs. And I say that as a dog owner. Americans give dogs a special pass over other animals: when a bear bumbles into town looking for trash, people freak the fuck out, and animal control quickly devotes a lot of resources to finding the animal and either euthanizing it or releasing it in a safe environment. The latter is always preferable, but very few scream murder when the former takes place.
But the animal associated with the most attacks in the US? Dogs, of course. And as #19 points out, pit bulls make up an enormous number of these attacks. As #16 points out, lots of other dogs attack and kill other dogs and even people, but when you look at the big picture, it's a disproportionate amount of pit bulls and rotts that are attacking.
But the animal associated with the most attacks in the US? Dogs, of course. And as #19 points out, pit bulls make up an enormous number of these attacks. As #16 points out, lots of other dogs attack and kill other dogs and even people, but when you look at the big picture, it's a disproportionate amount of pit bulls and rotts that are attacking.
27
You can argue about statistics, but a lot of it comes down to using your eyes + brain. Pit bulls are fucking huge and muscular. Are there gentle bears, lions, and elephants out there? Of course. Turn on Animal Planet for more than a few hours and you'll see a clip of that beardy guy who frenches his pet bear all day. But this does not mean we should integrate them into everyday society, taking them to parks and walking them down the street. If someone wants to raise pit bulls specifically for fighting, I do not give a shit, so long as they keep them in a secluded area away from humans and other dogs. When you're talking about bringing them into public space, it becomes a whole other issue.
28
You can argue about statistics, but a lot of it comes down to using your eyes + brain. Pit bulls are fucking huge and muscular. Are there gentle bears, lions, and elephants out there? Of course. Turn on Animal Planet for more than a few hours and you'll see a clip of that beardy guy who frenches his pet bear all day. But this does not mean we should integrate them into everyday society, taking them to parks and walking them down the street. If someone wants to raise pit bulls specifically for fighting, I do not give a shit, so long as they keep them in a secluded area away from humans and other dogs. When you're talking about bringing them into public space, it becomes a whole other issue.
29
TruthMovement- show me where dogsbite cites factual studies for the dates you describe? Guess what you can search their whole website for citations and you won't find them. The CDC on the other hand had a study that was based off of media articles from 1979 to 1998 that states similar facts to the one you show. This report has since been considered flawed and the CDC does not report on these bites anymore. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSa…
We as a soceity have been pushed into beleiving we can show prejudice against a specific breed (which actually encompasses 36 breeds and many mutts), cite partial facts, and twist things around for scare tactic purposes. The truth though is most intact males of any dog breed do not like other dogs. Then add a female to the mix and you get a pack that suddenly is protecting their territory. Stupid owners bring them back not one but twice. These dogs are probably cooped up all day, taunted and only get their free time to run when the owners drive their lazy butts to the off leash park. These dogs, if you look at some of the other posts, have been a menace for a while. Now when they act up, the whole breed gets called out for them.
We as a soceity have been pushed into beleiving we can show prejudice against a specific breed (which actually encompasses 36 breeds and many mutts), cite partial facts, and twist things around for scare tactic purposes. The truth though is most intact males of any dog breed do not like other dogs. Then add a female to the mix and you get a pack that suddenly is protecting their territory. Stupid owners bring them back not one but twice. These dogs are probably cooped up all day, taunted and only get their free time to run when the owners drive their lazy butts to the off leash park. These dogs, if you look at some of the other posts, have been a menace for a while. Now when they act up, the whole breed gets called out for them.
30
I'm tired of people talking about how kind their pit bull is. The bottom line is, if I could choose which dog I was to be attacked by, pit bulls would be on the bottom of the list.
31
@amillan: I have, a number of times, stated or implied that pit bulls are not bound to wreak evil upon the planet. For instance:
"Most of them are sweet, loyal, and affectionate dogs. But a small core of pit bull owners ruin their reputation, and how can we, as the general public, know which dogs are safe?"
... is what i said at post #18. If you want to claim that pit bulls are causing more physical damage (notice i said 'causing more phsyical damage' rather than just 'attacks') than let's say pomerarians, dachsunds, or hell, labradoodles, then I would very much like to sell you some waterfront property in Kansas.
"Most of them are sweet, loyal, and affectionate dogs. But a small core of pit bull owners ruin their reputation, and how can we, as the general public, know which dogs are safe?"
... is what i said at post #18. If you want to claim that pit bulls are causing more physical damage (notice i said 'causing more phsyical damage' rather than just 'attacks') than let's say pomerarians, dachsunds, or hell, labradoodles, then I would very much like to sell you some waterfront property in Kansas.
32
We can argue stats and figures and culture... None of it will change the experiences that I've had with pitbulls and irresponsible dog owners. In *every* *ugly* *incident* that I've witnessed at Belltown (Regrade) dog park over the last three years that I've been a dog owner, it's been a pitbull or pit mix.
33
I don't know what the best plan to deal with pit bulls is. If it was obvious, it would be implemented somewhere. But my guess is the solution may be somewhat similar to gun control: we need to loosen policies in rural areas, allowing people the most freedom, and crack down in urban areas, where pit bulls are surrounded by a lot of people and other dogs.
34
The owner of a pit bull tells to the world "I need to compensate for my inadequacy."
It's like a Hummer that way.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DNayDWGsrns/Sj…
It's like a Hummer that way.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DNayDWGsrns/Sj…
35
@32: In-fucking-deed. I used to live at 4th and Bell, and this dog park is completely ruined by the pit bulls/shitbrained owners. I would love to hear from someone who lives nearby and/or takes their dog to Regrade Dog Park that disagrees.
36
@27/28...
I would like to be able to find the reason in your argument. I have been on both sides of this issue...growing up afraid of pitbulls, now understanding/ adoring them...but I truly believe your bias is a product of false info that has been thrown at you via the media for decades...
(have to say the Stranger posted it well this time...it's about the a-hole owners...)YAY! Progress!
Lots of dogs are muscular and capable of inflicting great damage...the PROBLEM is that too often, as in this case, the UNSAVORIES want pit bulls for the wrong reasons, mishandle them and viola.. Magnuson incident
THIS is a problem that can be addressed with the use of laws that restrict particular types of felons from owning dogs, incentivized or FREE spay/neuter for low income people with dogs,and most importantly EDUCATION
FABB is actively working with both King County and the City of Seattle for such adaptaions to existing laws
I would like to be able to find the reason in your argument. I have been on both sides of this issue...growing up afraid of pitbulls, now understanding/ adoring them...but I truly believe your bias is a product of false info that has been thrown at you via the media for decades...
(have to say the Stranger posted it well this time...it's about the a-hole owners...)YAY! Progress!
Lots of dogs are muscular and capable of inflicting great damage...the PROBLEM is that too often, as in this case, the UNSAVORIES want pit bulls for the wrong reasons, mishandle them and viola.. Magnuson incident
THIS is a problem that can be addressed with the use of laws that restrict particular types of felons from owning dogs, incentivized or FREE spay/neuter for low income people with dogs,and most importantly EDUCATION
FABB is actively working with both King County and the City of Seattle for such adaptaions to existing laws
37
@36: Pit bulls can be wonderful dogs. I have said this 27 different ways, if you read back through the comments. Here's what you said:
"but I truly believe your bias is a product of false info that has been thrown at you via the media for decades..."
Uhhh... this is definitely one reason people are afraid of pit bulls, and I believe a wrongheaded one, but this is not why I dislike urban pit bull ownership. Do you own a dog? Do you take them to dog parks? With proper training, pit bulls are just as cuddly and adorable as any other dog. Unfortunately, I don't think your proposal of restricting felons from owning dogs, incentivizing free castration, and (most laughably) eduation will do a lick of good. Do you honestly believe that guys into dogfighting will sign up for a course on resposible dog ownership? Croc-wearing middle-aged women in Wallingford will, but not guys into dog-fighting.
"but I truly believe your bias is a product of false info that has been thrown at you via the media for decades..."
Uhhh... this is definitely one reason people are afraid of pit bulls, and I believe a wrongheaded one, but this is not why I dislike urban pit bull ownership. Do you own a dog? Do you take them to dog parks? With proper training, pit bulls are just as cuddly and adorable as any other dog. Unfortunately, I don't think your proposal of restricting felons from owning dogs, incentivizing free castration, and (most laughably) eduation will do a lick of good. Do you honestly believe that guys into dogfighting will sign up for a course on resposible dog ownership? Croc-wearing middle-aged women in Wallingford will, but not guys into dog-fighting.
38
truth- how can a delivery person know which lab, german shepard, pomeranian, jack russell terrier, poodle, chihauhau or pit bull looking dog is going to attack them? The truth is no one knows, so we all should refrain from judgement, and not approach dogs we don't know. I can tell you there are times I wonder about the pit bulls in my area, but I also am concerned about any of these and other dogs as well.
As for programs that work, you might want to take a minute to look at one that is working. I have attached the bylaws for Calgary Alberta who have had excellent success in improving not only their pet licensing, but reduction in dangerous animals as well. In 2000 their bite and animal calls were approximately 1900+, by last year, only 3 years after enacting and enforcing these new bylaws they have reduced their calls to 385 last year and of those 175 were relating to bites. They accomplished this, while also not enacting breed specific legislation that would have cost the city more money due to lawsuits, as DNA testing is becoming popular with pets as well.
http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/city…
As for programs that work, you might want to take a minute to look at one that is working. I have attached the bylaws for Calgary Alberta who have had excellent success in improving not only their pet licensing, but reduction in dangerous animals as well. In 2000 their bite and animal calls were approximately 1900+, by last year, only 3 years after enacting and enforcing these new bylaws they have reduced their calls to 385 last year and of those 175 were relating to bites. They accomplished this, while also not enacting breed specific legislation that would have cost the city more money due to lawsuits, as DNA testing is becoming popular with pets as well.
http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/city…
39
I am a life long dog owner. I say ban pit bulls and have animal control euthanize any pit bulls at the shelter for more than 2 weeks. Nine out of ten pit bulls are sweet dogs. One out of ten are serious threats. That's the difference between pit bulls and other dogs. That is enough justification for extreme measures.
40
I agree that individual pet tracking is ideal. Is this cost-effective for most cities? Well... yes, in the big picture, but most Americans cities are too dumb to realize that this will save them money in the long run. Case in point: Seattle -- Seattle, the liberal bastion of needle exchanges and low-priority marijuana arrests -- turning down the plastic bag fee. If Seattlites overwhelmingly reject a bag fee, I don't know that we have much hope (within the next few years) of getting this city to track individual dogs, and deal with them on a case by case basis.
To reject a breed ban, then, is to anthropomorphize dogs, to attempt to give them the same level of empathy as humans. By "breed ban," I don't mean go out and kill all pit bulls; I just mean that high-risk dogs like pit bulls are required to be fixed, and maybe there's even a reward for those who report pit bulls that are walking around with big throbbing testicles waiting to procreate more pit bulls. I don't think that's a crazy position to take.
To reject a breed ban, then, is to anthropomorphize dogs, to attempt to give them the same level of empathy as humans. By "breed ban," I don't mean go out and kill all pit bulls; I just mean that high-risk dogs like pit bulls are required to be fixed, and maybe there's even a reward for those who report pit bulls that are walking around with big throbbing testicles waiting to procreate more pit bulls. I don't think that's a crazy position to take.
41
@38: If a chihuahua attacks you, you will have minor bruising at most. If a pit bull attacks you, you may lose your life.
If you disagree, please link to a chihuahua-related death report.
If you disagree, please link to a chihuahua-related death report.
42
Sounds like a great voter referendum.
Option #1 - All pet owners pay higher taxes to track animals.
Option #2 - Ban pit bulls
Let's put it up for a vote.
Option #1 - All pet owners pay higher taxes to track animals.
Option #2 - Ban pit bulls
Let's put it up for a vote.
43
Nine out of ten blacks are sweet people. One out of ten are serious threats. That's the difference between blacks and other people. That is enough justification for extreme measures.
Exactly! This is precisely what I've been trying to tell people for years. But people have been telling me 'don't judge a book by it's cover.' Or, 'how can you possibly want to extend your prejudice into legislation?'
I'm glad you're following my logic here. It's good to see there are other people who think like me.
Now, admittedly, you're going to probably say, 'hey that's racist, and not what I said at all.' But we all know what you really think, since all I'm doing is applying the exact same logic to a different scenario.
(and please, please come back with 'but, but, socio-economic factors!' because the exact same thing can be said about pit-bulls)
If we're gonna ban pit-bulls, let's go all out and ban every statistically 'dangerous' thing we can, starting with blacks, and moving our way down to bikes.
Exactly! This is precisely what I've been trying to tell people for years. But people have been telling me 'don't judge a book by it's cover.' Or, 'how can you possibly want to extend your prejudice into legislation?'
I'm glad you're following my logic here. It's good to see there are other people who think like me.
Now, admittedly, you're going to probably say, 'hey that's racist, and not what I said at all.' But we all know what you really think, since all I'm doing is applying the exact same logic to a different scenario.
(and please, please come back with 'but, but, socio-economic factors!' because the exact same thing can be said about pit-bulls)
If we're gonna ban pit-bulls, let's go all out and ban every statistically 'dangerous' thing we can, starting with blacks, and moving our way down to bikes.
44
@42: Is it really that big of a deal to ban pit bulls? Is this equivalent to a Holocaust?
I really don't think so. They're just fucking dogs. It's just that Americans have a special love affair with dogs.
If there was a strain of cougar that had a taste for human flesh, it would be eliminated with extreme prejudice. Not saying that pit bulls have that instinct, but it's inarguable that they are attacking and causing severe damage to dogs/people higher than the average dog. If you want to say "oh, but wait, the St. Benedictine Augustshire Lowell-on-Stratford Standard Terrier attacks just as much as the pit bull," then... ok, let's ban them too.
I really don't think so. They're just fucking dogs. It's just that Americans have a special love affair with dogs.
If there was a strain of cougar that had a taste for human flesh, it would be eliminated with extreme prejudice. Not saying that pit bulls have that instinct, but it's inarguable that they are attacking and causing severe damage to dogs/people higher than the average dog. If you want to say "oh, but wait, the St. Benedictine Augustshire Lowell-on-Stratford Standard Terrier attacks just as much as the pit bull," then... ok, let's ban them too.
46
@43: This is exactly what I'm talking about: anthropomorphizing breeds into racial categorization. There is a long history of people trying to analogize breeds into racial categories. The fact is that racial categories are as much a cultural construct as dog breeds are. If anything can be learned, it's that dogs' culture and humans' parellel each other very closely, hence why we fret over dogs so much. If they were jellyfish, it would be a lot easier to talk about them, and analyze them analytically. But dogs are man's best friend, and it's as hard to judge them objectively as it is Neanderthals. At the end of the day, does it matter to you that the human fetish of a pit bull breed continues on?
47
You folks shouldn't comment until you've seen an aggressive pit bull in action. The "nice" owners all swear their pit bulls are sweet ones; the dogs play with their kids, blaa blaa blaa.
I have some nice neighbors like that, really, really nice people and they had what they thought was a really, really nice pit bull pet. One day, off-leash in a local park, unprovoked, that dog raced 50 yards across the park and attacked my on-leash dog as we walked down the adjacent street. He had my dog's whole hind quarters clamped in his massive jaws. The nice neighbors paid dearly for their nice pet's violence - $2500 in vet bills to save my dog's life. Now I never feel safe walking a dog.
There is something seriously wrong with pit bulls - their brain wiring is screwed up. If I ever walk a dog again I'll be carrying some serious protection.
I have some nice neighbors like that, really, really nice people and they had what they thought was a really, really nice pit bull pet. One day, off-leash in a local park, unprovoked, that dog raced 50 yards across the park and attacked my on-leash dog as we walked down the adjacent street. He had my dog's whole hind quarters clamped in his massive jaws. The nice neighbors paid dearly for their nice pet's violence - $2500 in vet bills to save my dog's life. Now I never feel safe walking a dog.
There is something seriously wrong with pit bulls - their brain wiring is screwed up. If I ever walk a dog again I'll be carrying some serious protection.
48
@37... Sorry I remain optimistic and DO believe education will work :BADRAP's success in the Bay Area is proof...
And Yes I own dogs..a 9 lb Italian Greyhound, A Chocolate Lab and 2 pit bulls...and a 3 legged cat.
Eww on the Crocs
And NO...It won't stop dogfighting, but laws against animal abuse will help to stop it.
Change doesn't happen overnight...but it can happen.
Currently, my personal attempts to stop dogfighting involve infiltrating a clear pro-dog-fighting group on facebook, posing as a shady thug, finding out when and where fights will happen...and siccing police/AC on them...well that or posing as a stripper and busting em up...but frankly even I am not THAT delusional.
And Yes I own dogs..a 9 lb Italian Greyhound, A Chocolate Lab and 2 pit bulls...and a 3 legged cat.
Eww on the Crocs
And NO...It won't stop dogfighting, but laws against animal abuse will help to stop it.
Change doesn't happen overnight...but it can happen.
Currently, my personal attempts to stop dogfighting involve infiltrating a clear pro-dog-fighting group on facebook, posing as a shady thug, finding out when and where fights will happen...and siccing police/AC on them...well that or posing as a stripper and busting em up...but frankly even I am not THAT delusional.
49
@46, no it's utterly irrelevant to me. I don't actually like pit-bulls and I don't let my dogs play with them. But at least I'm comfortable admitting that it's a byproduct of the same instinct that keeps us socially segregated. It's the EXACT same impulse that causes 'white flight' into the suburbs once blacks move in to town.
Racism can't just be wrong on a moral level, it has to be wrong on a FACTUAL level, else the morality of it is, well, grey. So if you can tell me that I'm not wrong to stop my dog from playing with pit-bulls, I expect you'll tell me that I'm not wrong for avoiding interaction with black people.
Can you tell me I'm wrong to do that? Please do so in a way that doesn't immediately contradict your arguments about pitbulls.
It's not anthropomorphizing because I'm not arguing for dog rights. I'm arguing for owner's rights. They can own whatever breed they damn well want to, so long as it's not demonstrably violent.
Racism can't just be wrong on a moral level, it has to be wrong on a FACTUAL level, else the morality of it is, well, grey. So if you can tell me that I'm not wrong to stop my dog from playing with pit-bulls, I expect you'll tell me that I'm not wrong for avoiding interaction with black people.
Can you tell me I'm wrong to do that? Please do so in a way that doesn't immediately contradict your arguments about pitbulls.
It's not anthropomorphizing because I'm not arguing for dog rights. I'm arguing for owner's rights. They can own whatever breed they damn well want to, so long as it's not demonstrably violent.
50
It's unbelievable to me that pitbulls are allowed in dog parks. Badly trained pitbulls, and pitbulls specifically trained to fight, are set off by other dogs for fuck's sake. Ban them from all parks, period.
52
@49: I think this is really interesting what you posted, because I think dogs are an analogy for ourselves. Pit bulls are an analogy for ourselves: they respresent the black/white divide, and whether that divide equals one of unfair segragation, where we say the weaker force is bad, or a fairer fore, where we say that force is a product of unfair situations?
53
The last time I was at Magnuson Park (sometime in late August), there was an unaltered male pit in the off-leash area who responded reasonably well to vocal commands until someone showed up with an unfixed bitch (non-pit). For the next 20 minutes, the pit followed the bitch around and attempted to mount her as his owner ignored him and her owner did nothing, despite her dog's obvious distress. We eventually left and attempted to call animal control but got no response. Personally, I believe that all dogs should be legally required to be fixed unless licensed to a registered breeder, and that penalties for having an unfixed dog be heavy fines. At the very least, that would have meant that animal control/cops would have had a legal reason to come to the off-leash area and deal with the sexually aggressive pit bull, as opposed to not responding.
Was one of the pits involved in this incident a big, burly gray male named Rascal? Because that's the dog that was being aggressive when we were there. He started to show interest in our 60-lb fixed pit-shepherd puppy, and we got out of there immediately.
Was one of the pits involved in this incident a big, burly gray male named Rascal? Because that's the dog that was being aggressive when we were there. He started to show interest in our 60-lb fixed pit-shepherd puppy, and we got out of there immediately.
55
If you spend centuries breeding dogs to herd sheep, culling the ones that let them stray or kill them, you get a dog that herds. Put any collie around a flock and watch. No one contests that this propensity is now innate.
But if you spend centuries breeding a dog specifically to be an effective killer of other dogs, culling the ones that stop attacking when the other dog shows submission, you somehow DON'T get a dog that takes to killing other dogs innately.
Nice logic, pit bull owners. Enjoy your time bomb.
But if you spend centuries breeding a dog specifically to be an effective killer of other dogs, culling the ones that stop attacking when the other dog shows submission, you somehow DON'T get a dog that takes to killing other dogs innately.
Nice logic, pit bull owners. Enjoy your time bomb.
56
Any one else find it ironic that Josh laments the stereotyping of pitbulls even as he stereotypes the owner as a "hyper-macho douchbag" because he has tatoos?
Pitbulls (and other gladiator breeds) are just as dangerous in the hands of a bleeding heart pacifist as they are in the hands of a thug.
Pitbulls (and other gladiator breeds) are just as dangerous in the hands of a bleeding heart pacifist as they are in the hands of a thug.
57
indeed @47 FTW
@53 Jessica now you are lumping all non fixed dogs together. That is completely misguided. I own a non-fixed championship bloodline yellow lab. While he may be more frisky than a cut dog when a female comes around, he also listens very well, is gentle and friendly. The only time I have had an issue with him, was both due to aggressive pits, once at Magnusson Park, and once at Redmond Marymoor. Both times pits came up to my dog and started pushing against him with hackles raised. My dog of course will defend himself to such unprovoked aggression. His hackles raised, and he growled, but backed off.
Both times the owners acted like it was my dogs fault, and took pride in their dog being the "tough dog on the block". Needless to say, we now carry my concealed weapon in a backpack when going to dog parks.
The pitbull owner in the story above is damn lucky I wasn't there that day, because this world would be less one pit ... at a minimum.
I wouldn't hesitate to walk up to a bit with jaws on another dog, and shoot it right in the spine multiple times, until it released the other dog, and then I'd put a final touch between it's eyes.
The time has come for everyone to recognize that this isn't an uncut dog problem. It is a breed problem plain and simple.
Even a shitty owner couldn't train a lab to be vicious in unprovoked ways like many pit confrontations are. Sure you could train any dog to be suspicious, angry, anti social. But only a few limited breeds are known for aggressively seeking out unprovoked confrontations.
As a dog owner for more than 20 years, and having witnessed dozens of pit only scares, so much anecdotal evidence from others, stories posted here etc etc... when will all you naysayers be willing to "get" that pits by their size, strength, nature, and volatile "short wiring" at random times equates into a danger that other dog breeds simply are NEVER associated with?
WAKE UP!
More...
@53 Jessica now you are lumping all non fixed dogs together. That is completely misguided. I own a non-fixed championship bloodline yellow lab. While he may be more frisky than a cut dog when a female comes around, he also listens very well, is gentle and friendly. The only time I have had an issue with him, was both due to aggressive pits, once at Magnusson Park, and once at Redmond Marymoor. Both times pits came up to my dog and started pushing against him with hackles raised. My dog of course will defend himself to such unprovoked aggression. His hackles raised, and he growled, but backed off.
Both times the owners acted like it was my dogs fault, and took pride in their dog being the "tough dog on the block". Needless to say, we now carry my concealed weapon in a backpack when going to dog parks.
The pitbull owner in the story above is damn lucky I wasn't there that day, because this world would be less one pit ... at a minimum.
I wouldn't hesitate to walk up to a bit with jaws on another dog, and shoot it right in the spine multiple times, until it released the other dog, and then I'd put a final touch between it's eyes.
The time has come for everyone to recognize that this isn't an uncut dog problem. It is a breed problem plain and simple.
Even a shitty owner couldn't train a lab to be vicious in unprovoked ways like many pit confrontations are. Sure you could train any dog to be suspicious, angry, anti social. But only a few limited breeds are known for aggressively seeking out unprovoked confrontations.
As a dog owner for more than 20 years, and having witnessed dozens of pit only scares, so much anecdotal evidence from others, stories posted here etc etc... when will all you naysayers be willing to "get" that pits by their size, strength, nature, and volatile "short wiring" at random times equates into a danger that other dog breeds simply are NEVER associated with?
WAKE UP!
58
I changed my mind. @55 posted while I was typing, and he clearly goes FTW on this thread.
'nuff said.
'nuff said.
59
My dog is a pit bull that I adopted from the Seattle animal Shelter 7 years ago, so I have experience with pit bulls. During the years that he has lived with me we have had so many interesting experiences I could write a book. The things to understand about pit bulls is that they are one of the few breeds that have been bred to fight other dogs. All pit bulls have that in them. All pit bulls have the ability to fight and kill another dog. And they can do this while enduring pain.
I think anyone who takes a pit bull to an off leash area is playing with fire. Taking 3 (and if they are not fixed,) well that is crazy. This person is soon going to have a serious problem and some poor dog will suffer for their stupidity.
You should only have a pit bull if you can walk it everyday for 2 miles or more, can keep it entertained most of the day and not let it run free especially with other dogs.
Any dog that aproaches a pit bull in an alpha agressive manner is asking for trouble. Most pit bulls will never back down so you will have a fight. And most of the time the pit bull will win.
I don't know what the answer here is but we need to think about limiting the number of pit bulls in the world. We do not need fighting dogs in our world. And it took years of selective breeding to breed these dogs to what they are today, so to breed them to be something else is crazy. But we have to come up with some way of controlling the breeding of pit bulls and possibly some other breeds but right now pit bulls.
And yes check out the animal shelters and you will find that most of the dogs are pit bull and pit bull mix dogs. So something is really wrong with this breed right now.
I think anyone who takes a pit bull to an off leash area is playing with fire. Taking 3 (and if they are not fixed,) well that is crazy. This person is soon going to have a serious problem and some poor dog will suffer for their stupidity.
You should only have a pit bull if you can walk it everyday for 2 miles or more, can keep it entertained most of the day and not let it run free especially with other dogs.
Any dog that aproaches a pit bull in an alpha agressive manner is asking for trouble. Most pit bulls will never back down so you will have a fight. And most of the time the pit bull will win.
I don't know what the answer here is but we need to think about limiting the number of pit bulls in the world. We do not need fighting dogs in our world. And it took years of selective breeding to breed these dogs to what they are today, so to breed them to be something else is crazy. But we have to come up with some way of controlling the breeding of pit bulls and possibly some other breeds but right now pit bulls.
And yes check out the animal shelters and you will find that most of the dogs are pit bull and pit bull mix dogs. So something is really wrong with this breed right now.
60
@55:
35 Breeds of Dogs were supposedly "Bred To Fight". 7 are extinct and of the remaining 28..Boxers (victim in this case) and Boston Terriers are among them.
Would you like to ban all 28 breeds? Or are you selectively Picking on the Pitbull bc of your irrational beliefs about them?
35 Breeds of Dogs were supposedly "Bred To Fight". 7 are extinct and of the remaining 28..Boxers (victim in this case) and Boston Terriers are among them.
Would you like to ban all 28 breeds? Or are you selectively Picking on the Pitbull bc of your irrational beliefs about them?
61
http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sect…
Chihauhau's never hurt anybody?
Labs are great with kids...
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?…
Only pitbulls kill other dogs.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_i…
Everyone says pitbull owners are paranoid, only crazy people own pitbulls. The reality is there are excellent owners who have seen how these dogs have been misconstrued over time. These dogs should not be part of fighting rings. They make terrible police dogs becuase they are so loving. Yet they almost instinctively know when is the right time to protect. They are also very smart and attentive to direction; whether that is negative or positive training. There are probably more CGC dogs in this breed just to prove that they can be socialized and be great pets.
There are animals in the breed that do not like other dogs, or small animals or kids. But go to the Petfinder website and you will see this in every advertisement for every breed of dog. There is a no cats/ dogs/kids link on pets lists because the animal said at some point " you know I just don't like that cat/dog/kid." They displayed some aggression and someone reacted. Often these dogs or cats can still be parts of the families that they go to next, but there is always that question.
To those who say ban, here is a link for you. This is a potential list of dogs that have been or are banned by either cities or towns in the US. Is your dog on the list? Then think about how some countries are making it so that only little dogs can be owned. Then one step further to when little dogs will be banned, because little dogs are never vicious right?
Do you see the potential of how any dog can make it to the list?
http://hubpages.com/hub/List_Of_75_Banne…
Now lets start focusing on how to deal with dangerous dogs and stop saying kill the pitbulls...
More...
Chihauhau's never hurt anybody?
Labs are great with kids...
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?…
Only pitbulls kill other dogs.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_i…
Everyone says pitbull owners are paranoid, only crazy people own pitbulls. The reality is there are excellent owners who have seen how these dogs have been misconstrued over time. These dogs should not be part of fighting rings. They make terrible police dogs becuase they are so loving. Yet they almost instinctively know when is the right time to protect. They are also very smart and attentive to direction; whether that is negative or positive training. There are probably more CGC dogs in this breed just to prove that they can be socialized and be great pets.
There are animals in the breed that do not like other dogs, or small animals or kids. But go to the Petfinder website and you will see this in every advertisement for every breed of dog. There is a no cats/ dogs/kids link on pets lists because the animal said at some point " you know I just don't like that cat/dog/kid." They displayed some aggression and someone reacted. Often these dogs or cats can still be parts of the families that they go to next, but there is always that question.
To those who say ban, here is a link for you. This is a potential list of dogs that have been or are banned by either cities or towns in the US. Is your dog on the list? Then think about how some countries are making it so that only little dogs can be owned. Then one step further to when little dogs will be banned, because little dogs are never vicious right?
Do you see the potential of how any dog can make it to the list?
http://hubpages.com/hub/List_Of_75_Banne…
Now lets start focusing on how to deal with dangerous dogs and stop saying kill the pitbulls...
63
The problem is that pits are far more likely to do this than others, fixed or not, good owners or not, "fighting breeds" or not.
Are you a good owner of a good pit? Great, move to Fall City. They don't belong in cities.
Are you a good owner of a good pit? Great, move to Fall City. They don't belong in cities.
64
@ Matt from Denver
Got proof of that? Or is that your own anecdotal BS? That's what I thought.Pit bulls (and all dogs, really)belong in good homes, urban or rural.
Got proof of that? Or is that your own anecdotal BS? That's what I thought.Pit bulls (and all dogs, really)belong in good homes, urban or rural.
65
@57 FTW with this comment:
"Needless to say, we now carry my concealed weapon in a backpack when going to dog parks."
"Needless to say, we now carry my concealed weapon in a backpack when going to dog parks."
66
@59 "And yes check out the animal shelters and you will find that most of the dogs are pit bull and pit bull mix dogs."
How much money do we spend housing these homeless dogs? In a truly humane society, that money would be spent housing homeless people.
How much money do we spend housing these homeless dogs? In a truly humane society, that money would be spent housing homeless people.
67
61. I must correct you on one item... the reason pitbulls make bad police dogs is that they, once they bite someone, they do not let go when commanded no matter how well housebroken they are. They are hard-wired to bite to kill. They don't let go unless killed, hurt badly enough to de-trigger their reflexes or their prey dies.
68
6 FTW. Either that or mandatory muzzles! No muzzles then jail time for the owners. These breeds are vicious and are genetically predisposed to kill by reaction no matter what type of training they receive, anything can set them off. Only murderous a-holes with small penises step outside of their homes with these creatures with no muzzles.
69
where did you get your information 67? Please site the studies? German shepherds are the number 1 dog of choice for police dog. Pitbulls still are used for tracking, drug detection and other canine jobs. If they were not used as police dogs for the reason you mentioned, it would be over the whole policing system. There are a couple of pb's on duty at the US/BC border now. They are not bred to bite humans. If they do they should be put down unless the bite is antagonized. Oh and have you tried to ever break up a dog fight? It is not easy any kind of dog. So to start spouting myths that cannot be confirmed is not something I'm going to believe.
There are so many stories about these great family dogs that never showed aggression before. Then come to find out they have spent most of their lives away from human contact or are trained to pull on a regular basis, or are intact males. The macho idiots that run around with the mastiff mixes, pb's, or other tough looking dogs just make me mad. As do the backyard breeders charging 300 bux a puppy and having no clue what the dogs bloodlines are or if the person that is getting them will take good care of them. That is why so many of these dogs end up in the pound. They are high energy and can be stubborn. They like to chew and dig and forget they have tails. They can get picky about who they like and may bark and act tough towards certain people. Some also can live with cats, ferrets, other dogs, birds, kids, and other pets and weird people. But they are not superhuman. They are dogs that not everyone can handle. Just like not everyone can handle a jack russell terrier or a greyhound or half a dozen other breeds.
Look at the Calgary bylaws if you really want to see positive change towards all bites. I would think you wouldn't want to be bit by any dog. Or are you just more focused on pit bulls as your personal fear?
Bite Force Competition. Pitbull, Rottwei… - The top video clips of the week are here
More...
There are so many stories about these great family dogs that never showed aggression before. Then come to find out they have spent most of their lives away from human contact or are trained to pull on a regular basis, or are intact males. The macho idiots that run around with the mastiff mixes, pb's, or other tough looking dogs just make me mad. As do the backyard breeders charging 300 bux a puppy and having no clue what the dogs bloodlines are or if the person that is getting them will take good care of them. That is why so many of these dogs end up in the pound. They are high energy and can be stubborn. They like to chew and dig and forget they have tails. They can get picky about who they like and may bark and act tough towards certain people. Some also can live with cats, ferrets, other dogs, birds, kids, and other pets and weird people. But they are not superhuman. They are dogs that not everyone can handle. Just like not everyone can handle a jack russell terrier or a greyhound or half a dozen other breeds.
Look at the Calgary bylaws if you really want to see positive change towards all bites. I would think you wouldn't want to be bit by any dog. Or are you just more focused on pit bulls as your personal fear?
Bite Force Competition. Pitbull, Rottwei… - The top video clips of the week are here
70
@41 - have you ever actually been bitten by a Chi? Or any dog? Bruising my foot! I have a friend who as bitten by a mini Dachshund and it broke her hand! I work with dogs and have been bitten many times. They can all do damage. Nothing to really add to the convo other than I felt your remark to be uhm.. highly exaggerated.
I don't know what the right answer is, except that ban Pits and the jackalope dog owners will just find a new phallus replacement.
I don't know what the right answer is, except that ban Pits and the jackalope dog owners will just find a new phallus replacement.
71
"how can we, as the general public, know which dogs are safe?"
Look at the owners..…if they wear a do-rag, pants half way down their asses and b-ball hat turned sideways, white or black, they are pricks who should be spaded.
Look at the owners..…if they wear a do-rag, pants half way down their asses and b-ball hat turned sideways, white or black, they are pricks who should be spaded.
73
I don't see why this is so complicated....the fucking owners of these beasts are, 99% of the time, hip-hoppidity assholes who hang out at Westlake with their pants around their asses. Ban these assholes from decent neighborhoods and the pyscho-pit bull problem is solved.
74
@56: It's ironic, if we live in a Alanis universe. If you're saying it's contradictory, then I disagree with that point. He's a hyper-macho douchebag because he takes 3 aggressive, muscular dogs to a dog park. He's a hyper-macho douchebag because he fled the scene, rather than dealing with it like an adult. You can be the stereotypical douchebag pit bull owner with zero tattoos.
@61: Biting a lip off is the worst you can come up with? I still would like to see a chihuahua-related human death. I won't be surprised if there is one. Maybe an infant.
@61: Biting a lip off is the worst you can come up with? I still would like to see a chihuahua-related human death. I won't be surprised if there is one. Maybe an infant.
75
@70: So you would be just as willing to be bitten by a dachsund as a pit bull? Please, offer your hand to this experiment.
76
Some of you that beleive that any breed of living creature should be genocidically massacred try and remember Adolph
Hitler had similar ideas that many on the planet found Heinous
and Evil as I and many others feel about BSL which is basically
copycatting Hitler's final solution.Notwithstanding the Honourable media there are less than 20 fatal dog attacks
per annum in the whole USA(all breeds)
smarock10@yahoo.com
Hitler had similar ideas that many on the planet found Heinous
and Evil as I and many others feel about BSL which is basically
copycatting Hitler's final solution.Notwithstanding the Honourable media there are less than 20 fatal dog attacks
per annum in the whole USA(all breeds)
smarock10@yahoo.com
77
Fuckin great. So now, being a white man with a pit bull I have to deal with a bunch of assholes that are gonna stare at me like Im a dog killer if I walk my dog at the park. Thanks dickhead with forearm tattoos. Learn to train your dogs or at least do something if they get out of control.
Strange week for aggressive dogs. On Sunday a Doberman, Rotty, Shepard or something mix had jumped out of a car window at the 7 Eleven on 15th and 125th and came running at me barking when I got out of my car. I just stood in front of it and said "NO!" The owner said "oh, he's nice, he'll just lick you"...yeah well he was about to get kicked in the face.
Strange week for aggressive dogs. On Sunday a Doberman, Rotty, Shepard or something mix had jumped out of a car window at the 7 Eleven on 15th and 125th and came running at me barking when I got out of my car. I just stood in front of it and said "NO!" The owner said "oh, he's nice, he'll just lick you"...yeah well he was about to get kicked in the face.
78
@64: I would love to see all pit bulls in good homes. "Pit bulls (and all dogs, really)belong in good homes, urban or rural," you say? I think everyone would love to see this. While pit bulls probably do have a proclivity towards aggressiveness higher than the average dog, there are plenty of wonderful owners with loving, gentle pit bulls. But this is due to careful training. The whole problem is the culture that surrounds pit bulls, and I would guess this culture actually represents a small percentage of pit bull owners. But it's there, and it needs to be dealt with in some way.
79
@76: Take it on Glen Beck. Calling up Hitler in a discussion about dogs equals anthropomorphizing to the extreme. For the record, we should not go out and kill pit bulls that are currently living. All dogs not owned by reputable breeders should be fixed, but pit bulls and other aggressive dogs should not continue breeding. They are not going to die sad and alone because they did not have children, because they're dogs. They can only remember a few seconds back in the future.
80
Many of you on this site seem to be absolute experts on the
bully breeds,how many of you have actually seen an attack
by one of these breeds?Am not referring to the garbage you have read in newspapers,when a drunken driver hits a child
the media does not show pictures of the mangled body of the
poor kid,when on very odd occasions there is a bad dog attack,many honourable reporters very often do not even see the dog but will automatically label it a pitbull,more newsworthy of course,this is a dishonest practice and should
be treated no differently than hate speech.
smarock10@yahoo.com
bully breeds,how many of you have actually seen an attack
by one of these breeds?Am not referring to the garbage you have read in newspapers,when a drunken driver hits a child
the media does not show pictures of the mangled body of the
poor kid,when on very odd occasions there is a bad dog attack,many honourable reporters very often do not even see the dog but will automatically label it a pitbull,more newsworthy of course,this is a dishonest practice and should
be treated no differently than hate speech.
smarock10@yahoo.com
81
@77: Owning pit bulls, you'd have to live under a rock to not know there's a stigma -- a well-earned stigma, unfortunately -- that surrounds pit bulls. I'm sure you have great, gentle dogs, but that's the burden you carry. I used to work with a guy with a teardrop tattoo. He got it because his dad died, but most people, quite fairly, assume it was due to him murdering someone. And that's the burden he had to live with, but he chose it.
82
Why Pits do not make good police dogs is that they enjoy playing too much,one policeman told a story of a pit that he was trying to train and all the dog wanted to do was sit on his lap,also these dogs have enormous desires to please their
families,hence the scum that take advantage and use them for that evil passtime dog-fighting,those are the bastards that should be put down.
smarock10@yahoo.com
families,hence the scum that take advantage and use them for that evil passtime dog-fighting,those are the bastards that should be put down.
smarock10@yahoo.com
83
@80: I take my dog to dog parks all the time, and I have seen plenty of attacks. Most of them are plain fights, but the pit bulls have a certain tenacity to them. I've been bitten by a pit mix before, and I keep my dog well away from them.
That said, my personal experience, and anyone's firsthand experience, is anecdotal. If you know anyone who works for the police department, you'll know that pit bulls are not popular there -- again, this is anecdotal, but they see lots of cases coming across their desks, so they have a slightly bigger picture. Unfortunately, there are no solid statistics out there. Most of the stats are put out by those who want to take a yay/nay position on pits. I would love to see some reliable stats that take into account all the unregistered fighting dogs out there, as well as the family dogs.
That said, my personal experience, and anyone's firsthand experience, is anecdotal. If you know anyone who works for the police department, you'll know that pit bulls are not popular there -- again, this is anecdotal, but they see lots of cases coming across their desks, so they have a slightly bigger picture. Unfortunately, there are no solid statistics out there. Most of the stats are put out by those who want to take a yay/nay position on pits. I would love to see some reliable stats that take into account all the unregistered fighting dogs out there, as well as the family dogs.
84
Truth Movement you certainly have the "Ve are the master race syndrome"My belief is that the Human is undoubtably the most Evil living creature on this planet,facts prove this,Hitler dissapproved of Jews so he wanted all of them in Europe
massacred,certain Islamic communities do not like non -Islamic people so they blow them up,recently a certain president and prime-minister did not like Saddam Hussein
so a war was created causing the deaths of many thousands
of human lives including their own people.
All the attention given to the pits is certainly not warranted and the other belief is I do not have the right to play G-D.
smarock10@yahoo.com
massacred,certain Islamic communities do not like non -Islamic people so they blow them up,recently a certain president and prime-minister did not like Saddam Hussein
so a war was created causing the deaths of many thousands
of human lives including their own people.
All the attention given to the pits is certainly not warranted and the other belief is I do not have the right to play G-D.
smarock10@yahoo.com
85
smarock10@yahoo.com: Thanks for explaining how everything in the world works.
If humans don't have the right to play God, as you say, then all dogs should be done away with, because dogs have been bred to fit into human society.
As far as comparing me and anyone who believes in a breed ban to Hitler (and my notion of a breed ban is the gradual reduction of pit bull numbers over several decades, without killing any living dogs, so long as they're not dangerous), then I don't really think we can have a serious conversation. I would direct you to this -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2I… . I would also suggest you see "Away We Go," which I just saw the other night. I imagine a conversation with you would be like talking to the Catherine O'Hara character in the movie.
If humans don't have the right to play God, as you say, then all dogs should be done away with, because dogs have been bred to fit into human society.
As far as comparing me and anyone who believes in a breed ban to Hitler (and my notion of a breed ban is the gradual reduction of pit bull numbers over several decades, without killing any living dogs, so long as they're not dangerous), then I don't really think we can have a serious conversation. I would direct you to this -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2I… . I would also suggest you see "Away We Go," which I just saw the other night. I imagine a conversation with you would be like talking to the Catherine O'Hara character in the movie.
87
Truth Movement I was not targeting you but the concept of BSL.In fact in 1 of your posting you mentioned that you would like to see stats on how many family pets vs fighting dogs.The way it appears to work generally is that in the cities and towns
that do not have BSL there is strong fight by the police and public to curb dog.fighting,these criminals are being arrested and are spending real jail-time,but in the counties like Miami-Dade and the city of Denver where they have murdered thousands of family pets they show little or no interest in going after the dog-fighters,animal-control will
arrive at your home with 4 police cars ,full of cops to take away your dog for doing nothing wrong but being a certain breed then they will murder the poor animal asap to avoid the owner getting legal advice.
smarock10@yahoo.com
that do not have BSL there is strong fight by the police and public to curb dog.fighting,these criminals are being arrested and are spending real jail-time,but in the counties like Miami-Dade and the city of Denver where they have murdered thousands of family pets they show little or no interest in going after the dog-fighters,animal-control will
arrive at your home with 4 police cars ,full of cops to take away your dog for doing nothing wrong but being a certain breed then they will murder the poor animal asap to avoid the owner getting legal advice.
smarock10@yahoo.com
88
The problem with pit bulls is that they are genetic killing machines. Most dags that bite you leave a flesh wound. A pit bull disfigures you, mutilates you and probably kills you. My German Shepard mix is no Pansie, yet he was completely owned by a immature pit bull bitch for no reason. He could not even get away, which is all he was trying to do.
When pit bulls go off, and they are bred to go off, the destroy. I think people are idiots to own them. We get frequent stories down south about family members killed by their pit bulls. It is dangerous.
Most apartments, condo associations and home owner associations ban them in my area. I have no problem with this. I love dogs, but it is too much of a risk.
When pit bulls go off, and they are bred to go off, the destroy. I think people are idiots to own them. We get frequent stories down south about family members killed by their pit bulls. It is dangerous.
Most apartments, condo associations and home owner associations ban them in my area. I have no problem with this. I love dogs, but it is too much of a risk.
89
think of a dog- ANY dog- like a car. They sure are nice to have, and mostly they play a positive role in our lives, but if we're irresponsible ASS WIPES they can hurt people. Certain kinds of cars are probably statistically prefered by people who drive them aggressively- but its irrelevent to the issue at hand. Now you can outlaw a certain breed- and just like outlawing guns, all it will mean is that the only people w/ that breed will be criminals. They will find a new breed, or falsify their papers, or get a mixed breed w/ the characteristics they want. its STUPID to outlaw a specific breed. you know what you can do? you can severely punish the worthless pieces of shit who ruin it for everyone else- whether you hit someone with your car, or you let an aggressive animal off leash- find ways to stick it to them. Call it reckless endangerment if no one gets hurt. Make laws that impose harsh monetary fines on anyone who causes the death of a person's pet or service animal (under reasonably defined circumstances obviously), and bar anyone who has ever participated in certain kinds of activities (including dog fights) from EVER owning a dog, and then, if they violate that, put them in jail. pits are bred for certain physical characteristics, but, raised like any other dog, their dispositions are no worse, in many cases better, than other breeds. In an ideal world, when they catch the guy that ran off, they'd euthanize HIM.
90
@ Julie,
I already proved it QED on another thread, as you well know. Your doggie lover's brain just can't handle the truth.
I already proved it QED on another thread, as you well know. Your doggie lover's brain just can't handle the truth.
91
@78...I agree the culture has to change...and it is..however slowly. With subtle changes like media outlets reporting on Dog Attacks rather than PIT BULL ATTACKS the culture surrounding the dogs can and will change.(YAY! KOMO for this last night!!!) This step alone won't do it but it's gotta go something like this(stealing bits from this weekend's BADRAP seminar)
1)Reduce the number of pitties entering shelters/being bred.
2)Take Animal Abuse laws seriously/ target and bust dog-fighting rings
3)Dispel the mythology surrounding this breed (NO-the jaw DOES NOT LOCK...NO- they don't snap and go crazy)
4)Stop the media from scaring people/perpetuating these myths
5)Breed for the good traits/shut down back yard breeding ops
6)Offer Spay/Neuter svcs..preferably for FREE to low-income owners
7)NORMALIZE the pit bull so more good people recognize their potential as great family pets/companion animals
@Matt..Umm there is no proof...and yep I love me some doggies:)
1)Reduce the number of pitties entering shelters/being bred.
2)Take Animal Abuse laws seriously/ target and bust dog-fighting rings
3)Dispel the mythology surrounding this breed (NO-the jaw DOES NOT LOCK...NO- they don't snap and go crazy)
4)Stop the media from scaring people/perpetuating these myths
5)Breed for the good traits/shut down back yard breeding ops
6)Offer Spay/Neuter svcs..preferably for FREE to low-income owners
7)NORMALIZE the pit bull so more good people recognize their potential as great family pets/companion animals
@Matt..Umm there is no proof...and yep I love me some doggies:)
93
i take my two dogs to magnuson all the time and there is always at least one jackass who has a big, aggressive dog he or she can't control. they either scream at the dog (who ignores them) or they just look the other way. i also have seen that dog "rascal" at magnuson and his owner is indeed an idiot; that's a dogfight waiting to happen. it really infuriates me when people can't control their dogs. one of my dogs is about 100 lbs. (a mastiff mix) and the other is about 40 lbs. (a golden retriever mix) and both are very well behaved, but if they weren't we wouldn't be there. it is my job to train my dogs and ensure their safety, and i take it seriously. jesus, people - it isn't hard! just take your dogs to doggie school and learn how to keep them under control, for their own safety as well as the dogs around them. and not just dogs, but there are usually kids at magnuson, and often elderly people as well.
as for the pitbull owners in question: my boyfriend said he remembers seeing them there over the summer on a sunday afternoon with their dogs, and he said they were very loud and totally ignored their dogs, who were running wild. he turned back and took our dogs home because the group seemed really sketchy and the dogs were making our dogs nervous. let's hope these pieces of crap are caught and punished, but sadly it is the dogs who will pay the price for their owner's ignorance and be euthanized.
as for the pitbull owners in question: my boyfriend said he remembers seeing them there over the summer on a sunday afternoon with their dogs, and he said they were very loud and totally ignored their dogs, who were running wild. he turned back and took our dogs home because the group seemed really sketchy and the dogs were making our dogs nervous. let's hope these pieces of crap are caught and punished, but sadly it is the dogs who will pay the price for their owner's ignorance and be euthanized.
94
julie russell @60: I wasn't advocating any ban. And I'm surprised that you view as irrational my statement that breeding for a trait gets you that trait.
It's true - all fighting dogs have this problem. If you have one, I hope you watch it like a hawk at the dog park, because as soon as another dog confronts it aggressively, all that breeding will kick in.
It's true - all fighting dogs have this problem. If you have one, I hope you watch it like a hawk at the dog park, because as soon as another dog confronts it aggressively, all that breeding will kick in.
95
@ 94, that's Julie for you. Give her the facts, she calls you a douche. Don't give her the facts, and she asks for them. That way, she always wins.
96
#16- I've seen these same people with the same dogs at Magnuson Park. Once several years ago my BC/Aussie mix and I had barely walked through the gate and out into the big field before one of these pits ran halfway across the field to attack my dog. At length the fat girl appeared to restrain her killer animal and had the audacity to claim my dog's "aggressive herding" had caused her pit to become violent. Of course my dog –as a BC/Aussie mix– was paying attention to one thing and one thing only: me. I actually think this is why the pit attacked us: we didn't immediately 'notice' him (clearly sharing an inferiority complex with its owners). I told her we'd been on the field for ten fucking seconds when her (unaltered) dog attacked so she could take her 'aggressive herding' bullshit and stick it up her ass. I also told her the next time her dog attacked mine I'd cut it's fucking head off.
I'm so sorry for this pet owner's loss and for the horror inflicted on countless bystanders. I can't imagine how horrible such a thing must have been to witness.
I'm so sorry for this pet owner's loss and for the horror inflicted on countless bystanders. I can't imagine how horrible such a thing must have been to witness.
97
mandatory spay/neuter of ALL pets.
license for OWNER having ANY pet
no pets over 20lbs
no public off-lease parks
right to protect oneself from any aggressive pet
so when your little rat dog aggressively runs up on me, don't complain when i blow it's head off with my 45.
license for OWNER having ANY pet
no pets over 20lbs
no public off-lease parks
right to protect oneself from any aggressive pet
so when your little rat dog aggressively runs up on me, don't complain when i blow it's head off with my 45.
100
@ 96 I have also seen this guy and his dog at Magnusson this past July. Upon arriving the two dogs that he brought had every other male dog on the premises on alert. Soon after arrival, the dogs started playing a tug of war game with each other, and it was getting growling and agressive between the two, which started other dogs to gather around, raising tensions between owners and dogs alike. We had our dog laying at our feet at the bench, staying out of the mess. Within 10 minutes of arriving, the whole demeanor of the entire place changed. In the preceding hour, all the dogs were happily playing and splashing around, however after the tug of war happened, everyone was on "alert".
Julie face the facts. Pits are a different bred breed. They do not "play" well in group situations with multiple unknown dogs. Other breeds of dogs of all shapes and sizes never seem to have these problems at dog parks we've been to. Why is that? Why?
Keep Pits out of community off leash dog parks! They DO NOT play well with other dogs! They are designed and bred for fighting. THAT can NOT be "untrained", no matter how well intentioned, socially conditioned, trained or raised. PERIOD!
If they only represent < 1% of the total dog ownership, but cause in excess of 80% of problems THAT is a no brainer. Keep them AT HOME. Fine you don't want us to ban them? Keep them away from the voting public, who decided to choose one of hundreds of breeds of dogs, OTHER THAN PITS!
How hard is it to understand that?
I hope you understand Julie that if your Pit ever agressively comes near my dog, that will be the end of your dog. I'll shoot it without hesitation. End of problem.
Julie face the facts. Pits are a different bred breed. They do not "play" well in group situations with multiple unknown dogs. Other breeds of dogs of all shapes and sizes never seem to have these problems at dog parks we've been to. Why is that? Why?
Keep Pits out of community off leash dog parks! They DO NOT play well with other dogs! They are designed and bred for fighting. THAT can NOT be "untrained", no matter how well intentioned, socially conditioned, trained or raised. PERIOD!
If they only represent < 1% of the total dog ownership, but cause in excess of 80% of problems THAT is a no brainer. Keep them AT HOME. Fine you don't want us to ban them? Keep them away from the voting public, who decided to choose one of hundreds of breeds of dogs, OTHER THAN PITS!
How hard is it to understand that?
I hope you understand Julie that if your Pit ever agressively comes near my dog, that will be the end of your dog. I'll shoot it without hesitation. End of problem.
101
Right from the CDC website-
A CDC study on fatal dog bites lists the breeds involved in fatal attacks over 20 years (Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998). It does not identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy-making decisions related to the topic. Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 16 fatalities; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill.
Many practical alternatives to breed-specific policies exist and hold promise for preventing dog bites. For prevention ideas and model policies for control of dangerous dogs, please see the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Task Force on Canine Aggression and Human-Canine Interactions: A community approach to dog bite prevention. *
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSa…
A CDC study on fatal dog bites lists the breeds involved in fatal attacks over 20 years (Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998). It does not identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy-making decisions related to the topic. Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 16 fatalities; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill.
Many practical alternatives to breed-specific policies exist and hold promise for preventing dog bites. For prevention ideas and model policies for control of dangerous dogs, please see the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Task Force on Canine Aggression and Human-Canine Interactions: A community approach to dog bite prevention. *
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSa…
102
Hey Gttim, did you take a look at that list of dogs that are banned in the US? GSD's are on there. Oh and if you search hard enough there was a proposal to ban all GSD's in the earlier part of this last century because of their nature to attack in packs, their strong bite strength, etc.
We need to stop focusing on the breeds of the dogs, and start focusing on better enforcement for KCAC, and the police, and stricter penalties and laws for dangerous dog owners. Whether that is a pb or a pomeranian. Otherwise we are going to just have a fight with people suing the cities saying their dogs aren't APB's with DNA evidence to back it up, and you know what then we will have a whole other story to cover and more taxes and lawsuits to pay. Treat each dog equally if it shows aggression tag it correctly. Stop lumping a small minority of dogs that are owned by people who don't really give a crap about them, with people who do honestly have family pets who live their whole lives without any aggression or the snap signs so many of you believe.
And you know what I DO WANT EQUAL ATTENTION given to the stupid dogs all over our county that are attacking, whatever the breed. Maybe if some of you string up the dogs sorts heard some of the daily UNREPORTED bites that happen, maybe you would understand that there are lots of dogs that attack that never are reported and don't gain media attention because they cannot be called pitbulls.
We need to stop focusing on the breeds of the dogs, and start focusing on better enforcement for KCAC, and the police, and stricter penalties and laws for dangerous dog owners. Whether that is a pb or a pomeranian. Otherwise we are going to just have a fight with people suing the cities saying their dogs aren't APB's with DNA evidence to back it up, and you know what then we will have a whole other story to cover and more taxes and lawsuits to pay. Treat each dog equally if it shows aggression tag it correctly. Stop lumping a small minority of dogs that are owned by people who don't really give a crap about them, with people who do honestly have family pets who live their whole lives without any aggression or the snap signs so many of you believe.
And you know what I DO WANT EQUAL ATTENTION given to the stupid dogs all over our county that are attacking, whatever the breed. Maybe if some of you string up the dogs sorts heard some of the daily UNREPORTED bites that happen, maybe you would understand that there are lots of dogs that attack that never are reported and don't gain media attention because they cannot be called pitbulls.
103
@ Matt...I NEVER win...I'm Julie Russell:)
I just don't think you have evidence to back your claims..show me something solid..NOT the Merritt Clifton (bogus) study...as in data... and we'll see where we are
I just don't think you have evidence to back your claims..show me something solid..NOT the Merritt Clifton (bogus) study...as in data... and we'll see where we are
104
Hey Amillan @101
You want prevention? Keep the fucking pits at home. Got it?
Segregate them. That way the only people they will bite will be family or friends of the idiots who decide to own them. There simply is no sane reason for anyone to own a pit bull terrier, or any of the "sub" breed similar dogs that encompass the word "pit". None. Unless you want to be an anti social asshole to your fellow citizens.
Pit bulls do not socialize well with large doses of "unknown" dogs, unless they spend their entire lives living that way. (See Ceasar's dogs in his group enclosure). Pits that are isolated, and taught to tightly bond with a small family unit do not then later play well with group situations, where they develop an inferiority complex with dogs bigger/taller/stronger looking than them.
Other dog breeds do not have this issue. Great Danes are HUGE, and yet are some of the most docile breeds. Why? You would think they could just go throw their weight/size around, and clean up.
It is because by NATURE and BREEDING that only gentle animals have been carried forward. Hence you NEVER see bans being promoted for them. Why? Hell they are over 130+ lbs when adults?
Please tell me why Great Danes have no stigma?
Hmm?
Ohhh... and your little "statistics" from above only discusses fatal dog bites. That is crap logic. I want to see statistics on bull terrier attacks that cause injuries serious enough to cause stitches/surgery. I then want the statistics correlated to the location (whether home, street, or off leash dog park), and seperated by breed.
You may night like "breed-specific" policies, but the fact of the matter is, labs are amongst the friendliest few of all dogs, and you NEVER hear of them causing unprovoked attacks, maimings, or fights like you do bull terriers. The same goes for HUGE Great Danes.
And if all I ever see causing problems at dog parks are one particular sub group species of dogs, then you damn well certain better believe I'm going to associate the breed of the animal in combination with the breeding of the owner.
More...
You want prevention? Keep the fucking pits at home. Got it?
Segregate them. That way the only people they will bite will be family or friends of the idiots who decide to own them. There simply is no sane reason for anyone to own a pit bull terrier, or any of the "sub" breed similar dogs that encompass the word "pit". None. Unless you want to be an anti social asshole to your fellow citizens.
Pit bulls do not socialize well with large doses of "unknown" dogs, unless they spend their entire lives living that way. (See Ceasar's dogs in his group enclosure). Pits that are isolated, and taught to tightly bond with a small family unit do not then later play well with group situations, where they develop an inferiority complex with dogs bigger/taller/stronger looking than them.
Other dog breeds do not have this issue. Great Danes are HUGE, and yet are some of the most docile breeds. Why? You would think they could just go throw their weight/size around, and clean up.
It is because by NATURE and BREEDING that only gentle animals have been carried forward. Hence you NEVER see bans being promoted for them. Why? Hell they are over 130+ lbs when adults?
Please tell me why Great Danes have no stigma?
Hmm?
Ohhh... and your little "statistics" from above only discusses fatal dog bites. That is crap logic. I want to see statistics on bull terrier attacks that cause injuries serious enough to cause stitches/surgery. I then want the statistics correlated to the location (whether home, street, or off leash dog park), and seperated by breed.
You may night like "breed-specific" policies, but the fact of the matter is, labs are amongst the friendliest few of all dogs, and you NEVER hear of them causing unprovoked attacks, maimings, or fights like you do bull terriers. The same goes for HUGE Great Danes.
And if all I ever see causing problems at dog parks are one particular sub group species of dogs, then you damn well certain better believe I'm going to associate the breed of the animal in combination with the breeding of the owner.
105
@ 100...they DO NOT represent <1% of the dog pop...AKC stats are used to derive that data and AKC does not recognize them...So In reality they make up a much larger percentage than that. Just look in any area shelter if you have your doubts.Lowball estimate 20-33% in a given community. Generally 2nd to labs.
To get an accurate read you have to break it down based on RECOGNIZED registration stats.
I will agree that SOME breeds may have a greater propensity towards DA (Dog Aggression)but NOT HA(Human Aggression) and will agree that pits are among those breeds..hence the need for OWNER RESPONSIBLITY.
To get an accurate read you have to break it down based on RECOGNIZED registration stats.
I will agree that SOME breeds may have a greater propensity towards DA (Dog Aggression)but NOT HA(Human Aggression) and will agree that pits are among those breeds..hence the need for OWNER RESPONSIBLITY.
106
reality check- do you actually beleive there are less than 1% of these dogs owned? Look around and tell me that. There may be only 1% registered, but that does not mean they are the <1% population.
107
@ 103, again, already did that and just got insulted (but with a cutesy little passive aggressive smiley face) for my trouble. You're prejudiced and impervious to even the notion that dogs bred for certain traits get those traits hardwired into their behavior. Since you're a dishonest and illogical debater, I won't go through any further efforts to make my case.
109
@102 I'll address your "undocumented attacks" claim you keep spouting.
That too is complete bullshit.
I've never seen a pomeranian attack another dog, where it's intent was to claim aggressive dominance in a group situation. If you understand pack logic, you know that this simply does not happen. Poms attack out of defense or fear. They are inherently timid because of their size. Hence when they go dog parks, they often fear the "unknown" and are skittish.
So I'd like to understand if your intent is to include Poms who are not aggressive but rather reactive? You are saying we should equate little Poms who snap at a little kids fingers and equally compare big vicious strong pits? Really?
I'm outraged that all you pit lovers can't seem to get it thru your thick skulls that there is a HUGE difference between pits that go looking for trouble and aggression, and other breeds that defend themselves, cause defensive injury bites, and in proportion do far less damage than strong pitbulls bred to have massive bear trap jaws and aggressive personalties.
You are too much....
That too is complete bullshit.
I've never seen a pomeranian attack another dog, where it's intent was to claim aggressive dominance in a group situation. If you understand pack logic, you know that this simply does not happen. Poms attack out of defense or fear. They are inherently timid because of their size. Hence when they go dog parks, they often fear the "unknown" and are skittish.
So I'd like to understand if your intent is to include Poms who are not aggressive but rather reactive? You are saying we should equate little Poms who snap at a little kids fingers and equally compare big vicious strong pits? Really?
I'm outraged that all you pit lovers can't seem to get it thru your thick skulls that there is a HUGE difference between pits that go looking for trouble and aggression, and other breeds that defend themselves, cause defensive injury bites, and in proportion do far less damage than strong pitbulls bred to have massive bear trap jaws and aggressive personalties.
You are too much....
110
http://www.google.com/search?q=labrador+…
There are over 138,000 articles alone on Google with labrador attacks. I am guessing not all of them are labradors attacking. But Labs, retrievers and ANY dog can bite or kill. There was a link I added earlier that had a lab PUPPY that mauled and killed a 2 month old baby. And the statistics I cited come from the CDC who originally ran the study that is so often used by people who only focus on bans. Seriously the stats you are looking for don't exist, I wish they did they would show an INSANE number of small dog bites, and all dog breeds. The media doesn't even cover a lab attack unless it involves a senator or someone dying.
BTW yes I do own a 3 year old pit bull that has been properly trained and socialized. She has NO aggression. She has play dates with other bully dogs and even smaller jack russell terrier mixes, and has gotten bitten at by retrievers, and even our neighbor pb who doesn't even like the dog that shares it's yard, she has never snapped back. She has NEVER met a dog she doesn't like. She has been to off leash parks and plays well with all the dogs, she was also fixed early on, so territory issues have never been a problem.
My dad who is a working General Contractor with 20+ years of experience has a 14 year old pitbull that is on her last leg. She has lived with ferrets, birds, cats, and all size dogs as well at 10+ grandkids. She is only now in her old crotchety age getting lippy. Hell if I were arthritic and half blind I don't know that I would be nice either.
The APB's that are part of families that are not left out in yards/chained all day, that are not taught to play rough or tug, and are taught manners, display manners. There are fabulous dog trainers in the Seattle area that own these dogs, because of the fact they are the underdog and because they are goofy and loving and smart. Even above what you hear.
Keep living in fear reality man, if BSL were passed, which I hope there are enough vocal people to stop, then it would only be a matter of time before more dogs were added. People would get vocal about the black labs that are biting and killing dogs, then on and on it goes. Play into PETA's plans. They don't want us owning animals anyways.
More...
There are over 138,000 articles alone on Google with labrador attacks. I am guessing not all of them are labradors attacking. But Labs, retrievers and ANY dog can bite or kill. There was a link I added earlier that had a lab PUPPY that mauled and killed a 2 month old baby. And the statistics I cited come from the CDC who originally ran the study that is so often used by people who only focus on bans. Seriously the stats you are looking for don't exist, I wish they did they would show an INSANE number of small dog bites, and all dog breeds. The media doesn't even cover a lab attack unless it involves a senator or someone dying.
BTW yes I do own a 3 year old pit bull that has been properly trained and socialized. She has NO aggression. She has play dates with other bully dogs and even smaller jack russell terrier mixes, and has gotten bitten at by retrievers, and even our neighbor pb who doesn't even like the dog that shares it's yard, she has never snapped back. She has NEVER met a dog she doesn't like. She has been to off leash parks and plays well with all the dogs, she was also fixed early on, so territory issues have never been a problem.
My dad who is a working General Contractor with 20+ years of experience has a 14 year old pitbull that is on her last leg. She has lived with ferrets, birds, cats, and all size dogs as well at 10+ grandkids. She is only now in her old crotchety age getting lippy. Hell if I were arthritic and half blind I don't know that I would be nice either.
The APB's that are part of families that are not left out in yards/chained all day, that are not taught to play rough or tug, and are taught manners, display manners. There are fabulous dog trainers in the Seattle area that own these dogs, because of the fact they are the underdog and because they are goofy and loving and smart. Even above what you hear.
Keep living in fear reality man, if BSL were passed, which I hope there are enough vocal people to stop, then it would only be a matter of time before more dogs were added. People would get vocal about the black labs that are biting and killing dogs, then on and on it goes. Play into PETA's plans. They don't want us owning animals anyways.
111
@ Julie and Amillan
I typed that wrong. No I do not believe they represent 1% of owned breeds of dog. What I meant to say is that less than 1% of all serious dangerous bites are from breeds other than pits, E.g,, that 99% of all serious bites causing death, OR serious bodily injury requiring potential for severe scarring.
You simply cannot dispute that all the dog aggression problems are from primarily a single breed.
Just like all the high speed motorcycle chases are primarily caused by high speed crotch rockets. Are other motorcycle models caught for speeding? Sure. But those other models weren't designed for speeding. Hence the majority of speeding infractions are done by dangerous juveniles on machines they are not experienced to use. They endanger the public with them. Hence in order for the benefit of the public we put regulators on the machines so they cannot exceed a certain limit.
The time has come to regulate certain dog breeds that will limit the public's exposure to dog breeds that are inherently more dangerous. Since we seem to be unable to require registration of owners, and we cannot seem to regulate owner behavior, then it is time to cut the problem off at the source. Ban pit bulls.
End of story.
I typed that wrong. No I do not believe they represent 1% of owned breeds of dog. What I meant to say is that less than 1% of all serious dangerous bites are from breeds other than pits, E.g,, that 99% of all serious bites causing death, OR serious bodily injury requiring potential for severe scarring.
You simply cannot dispute that all the dog aggression problems are from primarily a single breed.
Just like all the high speed motorcycle chases are primarily caused by high speed crotch rockets. Are other motorcycle models caught for speeding? Sure. But those other models weren't designed for speeding. Hence the majority of speeding infractions are done by dangerous juveniles on machines they are not experienced to use. They endanger the public with them. Hence in order for the benefit of the public we put regulators on the machines so they cannot exceed a certain limit.
The time has come to regulate certain dog breeds that will limit the public's exposure to dog breeds that are inherently more dangerous. Since we seem to be unable to require registration of owners, and we cannot seem to regulate owner behavior, then it is time to cut the problem off at the source. Ban pit bulls.
End of story.
112
reality check you are an idiot. There is no truth to the massive BEAR jaws. In fact Discovery channel did a test and the rottweiller had more bite force than a pit bull and GSD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK…
You may not have seen a pom show aggression, but head down to any animal shelter and they could tell you stories for ages about the same dogs and little dogs showing aggression to other kennel mates, cats and kids.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK…
You may not have seen a pom show aggression, but head down to any animal shelter and they could tell you stories for ages about the same dogs and little dogs showing aggression to other kennel mates, cats and kids.
113
reality check - did you even open the CDC dog bite fatality link? It state first thing that the study shows approximately 1/3 of all the dog bite fatalities were APB, and HALF were rottweilers. That is not 99%.
They also show they got their facts from HSUS and the media. HSUS is the same group in bed with Vick and has nothing to do with local humane societies. The reason the CDC does not pay for these kind of studies anymore is because they are FLAWED. Media only reports what sells papers and fills comments folders...
(DBRF)in the United States.1-3Most victims were chil-dren. Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs wereinvolved in approximately a third of human DBRFreported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about halfof human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993through 1996. These data have caused some individu-als to infer that certain breeds of dogs are more likelyto bite than others and should, therefore, be banned orregulated more stringently.4,5The purposes of the studyreported here were to summarize breeds associatedwith reported human DBRF during a 20-year periodand assess policy implications.
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSa…
They also show they got their facts from HSUS and the media. HSUS is the same group in bed with Vick and has nothing to do with local humane societies. The reason the CDC does not pay for these kind of studies anymore is because they are FLAWED. Media only reports what sells papers and fills comments folders...
(DBRF)in the United States.1-3Most victims were chil-dren. Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs wereinvolved in approximately a third of human DBRFreported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about halfof human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993through 1996. These data have caused some individu-als to infer that certain breeds of dogs are more likelyto bite than others and should, therefore, be banned orregulated more stringently.4,5The purposes of the studyreported here were to summarize breeds associatedwith reported human DBRF during a 20-year periodand assess policy implications.
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSa…
114
Um... Cato... I don't think the kind of people who have aggressive pits are treating them like people! More likely as fighting machines...
115
@112 No amillan, your posts here have shown that you are the ignorant one.
Read my post again. I said BEAR TRAP jaws. Meaning that unlike other dogs moron, pit bulls are notorious for clamping down, and not releasing their hold, even under the application of pain or pressure.
I have seen a pom show agression. And as has been stated here NUMEROUS times, I'll take a pom attacking my foot over a pit bull biting off my fingers any day. I have played with many breeds of dogs, and my extended family has owned 12 different breeds of dogs in the last decade. I volunteer train dogs for the blind, own my own lab, and my parents raise springers. I've been around dogs and dog training my entire life. My lab pup at 12 months old had already completed AKC dog obedience I at Magnusson AKC this past winter... so yes I have worked with, trained with, and been around many breeds.... just to name some of the exposure of hide to variety and type fyi...
So please... keep calling me a moron putz... it is really cute.
I know what I've personally experienced, both during my own observations, my own experience working with my dog, my own experience taking my dog to Magnusson, Marymoor, and countless beaches. I understand dog interaction. I fully understand pack behaviour, dog aggression, and dog owners not "getting" the entire picture.
I do not need pit owners compensating for lack of knowledge. Not all pit owners mind you... but enough that causes problems. And because these owners are getting in WAY over there heads, and putting MY safety, and the safety of my dog at risk, I will NOT compromise.
You can show me studies about labs causing bite injuries. Sure they do happen. But when labs bite, on average they do not inflict life threatening injury.
That is the difference.
Kids come running to my lab to pet him when we walk him in parks and on the street. The same can NOT be said for pits.
More...
Read my post again. I said BEAR TRAP jaws. Meaning that unlike other dogs moron, pit bulls are notorious for clamping down, and not releasing their hold, even under the application of pain or pressure.
I have seen a pom show agression. And as has been stated here NUMEROUS times, I'll take a pom attacking my foot over a pit bull biting off my fingers any day. I have played with many breeds of dogs, and my extended family has owned 12 different breeds of dogs in the last decade. I volunteer train dogs for the blind, own my own lab, and my parents raise springers. I've been around dogs and dog training my entire life. My lab pup at 12 months old had already completed AKC dog obedience I at Magnusson AKC this past winter... so yes I have worked with, trained with, and been around many breeds.... just to name some of the exposure of hide to variety and type fyi...
So please... keep calling me a moron putz... it is really cute.
I know what I've personally experienced, both during my own observations, my own experience working with my dog, my own experience taking my dog to Magnusson, Marymoor, and countless beaches. I understand dog interaction. I fully understand pack behaviour, dog aggression, and dog owners not "getting" the entire picture.
I do not need pit owners compensating for lack of knowledge. Not all pit owners mind you... but enough that causes problems. And because these owners are getting in WAY over there heads, and putting MY safety, and the safety of my dog at risk, I will NOT compromise.
You can show me studies about labs causing bite injuries. Sure they do happen. But when labs bite, on average they do not inflict life threatening injury.
That is the difference.
Kids come running to my lab to pet him when we walk him in parks and on the street. The same can NOT be said for pits.
116
Pit bulls jaws DO NOT LOCK...This is a myth. Are they tenacious?SURE, but so are MANY other large breed dogs. Do they have some DA at times?SURE-they can..but so can MANY other breeds.
And RC- since we are gettin all anecdotal: Children ADORE my pitbull Simon...They hug her, pull her ears and sit on her like a horse. My lab...not so good with kids.
Bottom line: We are all shaped by our experiences and the knowledge we have access to. Unfortunately, for decades the knowledge on pit bulls has been based largely in MTYH and scare tactics.It is easy to fear what you do not know or that which you believe you know...but do not
And RC- since we are gettin all anecdotal: Children ADORE my pitbull Simon...They hug her, pull her ears and sit on her like a horse. My lab...not so good with kids.
Bottom line: We are all shaped by our experiences and the knowledge we have access to. Unfortunately, for decades the knowledge on pit bulls has been based largely in MTYH and scare tactics.It is easy to fear what you do not know or that which you believe you know...but do not
117
Oh RC the facts come at you and it must be hard to ignore them. Especially with all your extensive knowledge on the 12 breeds you have been around, and the parents that bred the spaniels, and your labs basic education training. Your beloved pup is on the list of 75 breeds that have some sort of BSL against them currently in the US. So keep trumpeting your ban em slogan. Eventually one of those kids that comes running towards your lab that you don't tell to stop is going to set off this dog or maybe the next or somewhere down the line and your dog will be targeted too.
Breed bans do not and have not ever worked. PERIOD. There are still problems with dog bites in Denver, breed ban implemented in the 90's, Yakima has issues, 80's, Netherlands just stopped their breed ban because it wasn't working.
Maybe check out one of the original links I added if you want to see what works. It isn't breed specific bans, but more enforcement of the laws already on the books, more enforcement of dogs on the loose and fines and penalties for dogs that bite from any breed. Check out the Calgary bylaws. They have worked unlike BSL...
Breed bans do not and have not ever worked. PERIOD. There are still problems with dog bites in Denver, breed ban implemented in the 90's, Yakima has issues, 80's, Netherlands just stopped their breed ban because it wasn't working.
Maybe check out one of the original links I added if you want to see what works. It isn't breed specific bans, but more enforcement of the laws already on the books, more enforcement of dogs on the loose and fines and penalties for dogs that bite from any breed. Check out the Calgary bylaws. They have worked unlike BSL...
118
Julie @116
Noone ever said their jaws lock. Please don't twist my words. I said that pit bulls are well known to have clamping problems, whereby they lock down on something (dog/human), and they will NOT release even under pressure/pain/command.
Please refute that. I dare you.
Labs do not have that problem. They don't viciously clamp down and shake their head in a tearing fashion. If labs bite, it is a nip or snap to send a message. Labs by nature do not bite, and when they do, it is IN NO WAY comparable to pits.
Please refute that. I dare you.
I notice noone has addressed my comparison to a ban on Great Danes? Why not? They are HUGE? You can't. That is why.
Bottom line. Pits are more inherently dangerous when compared objectively to other breeds. This is not an owner training/socialization/bad owner issue. Since we cannot keep dangerous irresponsible owners from thinking of the common good of all of the public, both dog owners and non dog owning citizens, we need to ban the breed that is in most need of control.
When irresponsible pomeranian owners allow their dogs to nip other dogs, they get a surprise peck When irresponsible pit bull owners allow their dogs to rip into dogs, other dogs die or get badly mauled.
As a result, pit bulls do NOT belong at off leash dog parks, no matter what level of responsibility their owner shows. You want a compromise? Then have mandatory muzzle requirements for pit bulls & rotts at all off leash parks.
Show us you really understand where we are coming from. I damn well guarantee you that my lab will not bite your pit at the dog park if it is muzzled.
Can you promise me the same if that were reversed?
Consider the nature of pits, noone in their right mind would take that bet.
And the public has simply had ENOUGH.
More...
Noone ever said their jaws lock. Please don't twist my words. I said that pit bulls are well known to have clamping problems, whereby they lock down on something (dog/human), and they will NOT release even under pressure/pain/command.
Please refute that. I dare you.
Labs do not have that problem. They don't viciously clamp down and shake their head in a tearing fashion. If labs bite, it is a nip or snap to send a message. Labs by nature do not bite, and when they do, it is IN NO WAY comparable to pits.
Please refute that. I dare you.
I notice noone has addressed my comparison to a ban on Great Danes? Why not? They are HUGE? You can't. That is why.
Bottom line. Pits are more inherently dangerous when compared objectively to other breeds. This is not an owner training/socialization/bad owner issue. Since we cannot keep dangerous irresponsible owners from thinking of the common good of all of the public, both dog owners and non dog owning citizens, we need to ban the breed that is in most need of control.
When irresponsible pomeranian owners allow their dogs to nip other dogs, they get a surprise peck When irresponsible pit bull owners allow their dogs to rip into dogs, other dogs die or get badly mauled.
As a result, pit bulls do NOT belong at off leash dog parks, no matter what level of responsibility their owner shows. You want a compromise? Then have mandatory muzzle requirements for pit bulls & rotts at all off leash parks.
Show us you really understand where we are coming from. I damn well guarantee you that my lab will not bite your pit at the dog park if it is muzzled.
Can you promise me the same if that were reversed?
Consider the nature of pits, noone in their right mind would take that bet.
And the public has simply had ENOUGH.
119
My 4 month old puppy was killed at Magnuson around this time last year. Animal control did nothing, police did nothing and the news didn't run the story. If the dog had been a pit instead of a lab, maybe people would have cared! Where was this outrage when this happened to the sweetest little puppy you could imagine. My husband and I were left with a $3,000 vet bill, our puppy died in surgery and we never found the owner b/c we went to the vet to try to save our puppy's life instead of staying to get the guy's info. He had a muzzle and didn't use it! We saw him pull it out of his pocket after his dog attacked ours. His dog didn't even have any warnings. No growling, posturing, barking, etc... just sniffed her like it was going to be friends and killed her. Owner did nothing while my husband and I tried to get the dog to let go! Where was the concern then? Maybe people should focus on the owners instead of the breed!
120
talk to dog walkers and people that are at these parks daily they will tell you it is more likely that your lab breed will cause a problem than the other dogs there. I would love to bring my dog to play with your dog, maybe it would show you that no not all apb's are aggressive and yes they can be kept under control. There are people who will continue to generalize and live in fear. Unfortunately it looks like you are one of them.
Oh and conveniantly I just put great dane into google and attack. And guess what popped up FIRST on the news lead?
http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/dpp/news/dpg…
Here is the Google link with the 300,000 articles that match.
http://www.google.com/search?q=great+dan…
Oh and conveniantly I just put great dane into google and attack. And guess what popped up FIRST on the news lead?
http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/dpp/news/dpg…
Here is the Google link with the 300,000 articles that match.
http://www.google.com/search?q=great+dan…
121
Ohh and @117 I won't even bother with your "facts". They are bogus. I'll keep my own personal assessment and rest on what I've personally witnessed over many years of interacting with dogs of all breeds at dog parks.
I have no use for pit owners making continual excuses for examples they can't deny. I will indeed keep trumpeting my "ban 'em" slogan. I have no use for dogs that are inherently bred to be fighters. Until you can show me proof where they were not historically bred to be fighters, I won't back down.
The whole reason we have different breeds of dogs is because each breed has been bred for specific purposes over many generations. Please tell me what pit bulls are bred for again?? You simply cannot tell me that Pits are more advantageous to own compared to other breeds. There simply is no reason to not go with an alternative breed. Period.
You say that breed bans have never worked period? Sorry you are wrong. Bans have not "worked", because the bans have too many loopholes, exceptions, and little strict enforcement. You want a pit ban with teeth? I'll give you one.
Kill all pits upon sight within King County borders. No passing "Go!", no excuses, no chances. Get rid of them entirely. Enact legislation that mandates a $5,000 fine and/or 1 year in jail minimum mandatory for anyone violating the ban. Further, anyone wanting to own a Rott, Pinscher, or Bulldog has to apply for a county license, provide proof of completion of AKC dog obedience I AND AKC Good Citizen cert, and provide proof of a $1,000,000 umbrella homeowners' insurance policy to be allowed to own a dog.
Start there, and come back to me 3 years later, and we'll "see" how effective my legislation is at reducing problems in off leash dog parks.
Good day.
More...
I have no use for pit owners making continual excuses for examples they can't deny. I will indeed keep trumpeting my "ban 'em" slogan. I have no use for dogs that are inherently bred to be fighters. Until you can show me proof where they were not historically bred to be fighters, I won't back down.
The whole reason we have different breeds of dogs is because each breed has been bred for specific purposes over many generations. Please tell me what pit bulls are bred for again?? You simply cannot tell me that Pits are more advantageous to own compared to other breeds. There simply is no reason to not go with an alternative breed. Period.
You say that breed bans have never worked period? Sorry you are wrong. Bans have not "worked", because the bans have too many loopholes, exceptions, and little strict enforcement. You want a pit ban with teeth? I'll give you one.
Kill all pits upon sight within King County borders. No passing "Go!", no excuses, no chances. Get rid of them entirely. Enact legislation that mandates a $5,000 fine and/or 1 year in jail minimum mandatory for anyone violating the ban. Further, anyone wanting to own a Rott, Pinscher, or Bulldog has to apply for a county license, provide proof of completion of AKC dog obedience I AND AKC Good Citizen cert, and provide proof of a $1,000,000 umbrella homeowners' insurance policy to be allowed to own a dog.
Start there, and come back to me 3 years later, and we'll "see" how effective my legislation is at reducing problems in off leash dog parks.
Good day.
122
119- I am sorry for your loss and do feel that the attitude is exactly as stated. If media can attach pitbull they want the story. If not it isn't news.
123
@121...NOT RELEASING and LOCKING are two ways to say the VERY same thing...sorry I paraphrased.
Also...of course you'll go with your own anecotal BS, bc none of the SCIENTIFIC DATA backs your flawed thinking.
Also...of course you'll go with your own anecotal BS, bc none of the SCIENTIFIC DATA backs your flawed thinking.
124
Don't worry amillan @122... we all are fully aware that was just likely you or julie or some other poser trying to be cute @119 with a lie. An anonymous poster with a bogus story trying to be all tongue in cheek snarky.
FAIL
Now run along and go play under traffic elsewhere troll.
FAIL
Now run along and go play under traffic elsewhere troll.
125
Julie @123 well then I stand corrected.
Your paraphrasing is completely and wholly wrong. They are very well known for having a clamp down problem. I've witnessed it many times with pits, both in play situations, with law enforcement, and in attack situations in the past. It is not anecdotal, but rather personally witnessed. I'm not talking about a "physical" lock, but rather as a holistic picture of the dog that is stubborn, unresponsive, and impervious to pain when under stress.
The dogs simply will not detach from a fight, and it is much more psychological than physical. They have been bred to latch on and tear, choke, maim. That is their nature.
You can't explain away nature, no matter how much your human emotions want to believe otherwise.
Sorry.
Your paraphrasing is completely and wholly wrong. They are very well known for having a clamp down problem. I've witnessed it many times with pits, both in play situations, with law enforcement, and in attack situations in the past. It is not anecdotal, but rather personally witnessed. I'm not talking about a "physical" lock, but rather as a holistic picture of the dog that is stubborn, unresponsive, and impervious to pain when under stress.
The dogs simply will not detach from a fight, and it is much more psychological than physical. They have been bred to latch on and tear, choke, maim. That is their nature.
You can't explain away nature, no matter how much your human emotions want to believe otherwise.
Sorry.
126
Awesome I answer your Great Dane request and it is not good enough...
You are fabulously STUPID! RC the websites I cited were all from the CDC or AVMA, and the Discovery Channel. Obviously bogus fact finding outlets I'm sure. Your ban would kill a lot of dogs that look like pitbulls or are mistaken for them on sight just because. Sounds a lot like the KKK and string up all the n*****, because obviously every black person is causing no good. Do you want to be responsible for the mastiffs, bull dogs, boxers, or any other number of dogs that would be killed? How about what is the deciding factor for HOW much pit bull is enough to put them down. Can we test your lab for Pitbull DNA? Or is your blueblooded lab direct decendants to the lab gods? There have been 3497 pitbulls killed in Denver under their ban. It has done nothing to stop dog bites.
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/200…
Here is what you asked for: Oh I have also attached the 1.3 million PLUS Google searches with the word pit bull and hero.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=c…
In the United States these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions;[1] however, some were selectively bred for their fighting prowess,[2] and starting in the early 20th century they began to replace the bull terrier as the "dog of choice" for dog fighting in the United States.[3]
(Wikipedia)
Pit bulls are terriers and were bred to recognize other dogs as "prey." Simply put, in a fight, the other dog becomes a "rabbit." Terriers grab a hold of their prey and shake. Many pit bulls will instinctively do the same if they get into a scrap with another dog. As a result, breaking up a pit bull fight can be difficult if you don't know what to do, but is easier than other breeds when you do know how to proceed.
The key is not to panic and use the right tools. Timing is important and the quicker you intervene, the better. However, it is necessary to assess the situation before sticking your hands in the middle of two dogs fighting.
Most rumbles can be stopped with a stern "No!" and by quickly pulling the dogs off of each other. If the altercation has escalated into a full blown fight, however, you will need more than your voice to stop the dogs. A water hose or bucket of water might work but in most cases the best tool to break up a pit bull fight is a break stick. No responsible owner should be without one.
http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html
http://www.examiner.com/x-3791-Pet-Life-…
More...
Awesome I answer your Great Dane request and it is not good enough...
You are fabulously STUPID! RC the websites I cited were all from the CDC or AVMA, and the Discovery Channel. Obviously bogus fact finding outlets I'm sure. Your ban would kill a lot of dogs that look like pitbulls or are mistaken for them on sight just because. Sounds a lot like the KKK and string up all the n*****, because obviously every black person is causing no good. Do you want to be responsible for the mastiffs, bull dogs, boxers, or any other number of dogs that would be killed? How about what is the deciding factor for HOW much pit bull is enough to put them down. Can we test your lab for Pitbull DNA? Or is your blueblooded lab direct decendants to the lab gods? There have been 3497 pitbulls killed in Denver under their ban. It has done nothing to stop dog bites.
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/200…
Here is what you asked for: Oh I have also attached the 1.3 million PLUS Google searches with the word pit bull and hero.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=c…
In the United States these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions;[1] however, some were selectively bred for their fighting prowess,[2] and starting in the early 20th century they began to replace the bull terrier as the "dog of choice" for dog fighting in the United States.[3]
(Wikipedia)
Pit bulls are terriers and were bred to recognize other dogs as "prey." Simply put, in a fight, the other dog becomes a "rabbit." Terriers grab a hold of their prey and shake. Many pit bulls will instinctively do the same if they get into a scrap with another dog. As a result, breaking up a pit bull fight can be difficult if you don't know what to do, but is easier than other breeds when you do know how to proceed.
The key is not to panic and use the right tools. Timing is important and the quicker you intervene, the better. However, it is necessary to assess the situation before sticking your hands in the middle of two dogs fighting.
Most rumbles can be stopped with a stern "No!" and by quickly pulling the dogs off of each other. If the altercation has escalated into a full blown fight, however, you will need more than your voice to stop the dogs. A water hose or bucket of water might work but in most cases the best tool to break up a pit bull fight is a break stick. No responsible owner should be without one.
http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html
http://www.examiner.com/x-3791-Pet-Life-…
127
BTW that bite and hold statistic is not a pit bull only trait, rather it's a terrier trait. Similar to your labrador retriever trait to love water and retrieving. The funny thing with traits is they are not the same with every dog. Hence the reason that some dogs were culled to better a certain trait.
Also RC- did you happen to see any of the related articles about the pit that was owned by the killer that slit that womans throat in Georgetown? He tried several times unsuccessfully to get his dog to attack, it never would. Funny a dog that you assume must be the devil incarnate should have taken the immediate joy in tearing someone apart right?
Also RC- did you happen to see any of the related articles about the pit that was owned by the killer that slit that womans throat in Georgetown? He tried several times unsuccessfully to get his dog to attack, it never would. Funny a dog that you assume must be the devil incarnate should have taken the immediate joy in tearing someone apart right?
128
@125...are you really this stupid or just trying to be cute? Anecdotal and personally experienced/witnessed/ told as a story by the storyteller mean the same thing..
129
Amillan @126
You did not answer my Great Dane request. The request was to tell me why we don't have communities all over the country crying for GD bans? Why don't we see stats in the same proportions that we do pits? I mean.. my gosh.. GD's outweigh pits by 40-65 lbs and 2 feet in height! Sure you can find an occasional story about "breed "X"' biting someone somewhere... there are millions of dogs in the U.S.
Please don't misstate my proposal on the ban amillan. It is very specific to Pit Bull terriers. In order to get legally specific, we'll say that if a dog has more than 25% pit bull terrier or bull mastiff in their DNA, then they fall under the ban. Nice and simple. The kill suggestion would not apply to bull dogs or boxers, however they would be included with Rotts and Doberman's in the restricted licensure group.
You can please go ahead and test my lab for pit bull terrier. lol ... he is pure blooded back 4 generations on each side, and I can guarantee I paid more for him up front, than you have in the life of your dog.
Noone said killing all pits would stop ALL bites. Rather, that now that Denver has banned pits, (or what they call their "ban" ... under watered down language/laws), but I guarantee that Denver is a safer community for trying to enact some restrictions. Now if only those restrictions were toughened up on pits, we'd see if overall bites go down, or just pit bites.
You see.. that is part of the problem you keep conflating... the issue isn't BITES as much as it is VISCIOUS BLOODY ATTACKS that are far more escalated, violent, damaging, and injurious as compared toa single dog biting for one of thousands of reasons.
Pit Bull ATTACKS are violent events that can last from 1 to 10 mintues. Please stop comparing a different breed of dog's 2-5 second bite with pit bull assaults.
Thanks.
More...
You did not answer my Great Dane request. The request was to tell me why we don't have communities all over the country crying for GD bans? Why don't we see stats in the same proportions that we do pits? I mean.. my gosh.. GD's outweigh pits by 40-65 lbs and 2 feet in height! Sure you can find an occasional story about "breed "X"' biting someone somewhere... there are millions of dogs in the U.S.
Please don't misstate my proposal on the ban amillan. It is very specific to Pit Bull terriers. In order to get legally specific, we'll say that if a dog has more than 25% pit bull terrier or bull mastiff in their DNA, then they fall under the ban. Nice and simple. The kill suggestion would not apply to bull dogs or boxers, however they would be included with Rotts and Doberman's in the restricted licensure group.
You can please go ahead and test my lab for pit bull terrier. lol ... he is pure blooded back 4 generations on each side, and I can guarantee I paid more for him up front, than you have in the life of your dog.
Noone said killing all pits would stop ALL bites. Rather, that now that Denver has banned pits, (or what they call their "ban" ... under watered down language/laws), but I guarantee that Denver is a safer community for trying to enact some restrictions. Now if only those restrictions were toughened up on pits, we'd see if overall bites go down, or just pit bites.
You see.. that is part of the problem you keep conflating... the issue isn't BITES as much as it is VISCIOUS BLOODY ATTACKS that are far more escalated, violent, damaging, and injurious as compared toa single dog biting for one of thousands of reasons.
Pit Bull ATTACKS are violent events that can last from 1 to 10 mintues. Please stop comparing a different breed of dog's 2-5 second bite with pit bull assaults.
Thanks.
130
@128 I was trying to be cute Julie...
but I was typing faster than thinking... my bad.
Came out wrong.
but I was typing faster than thinking... my bad.
Came out wrong.
131
Well.. forgiven...can't help being a bitch, myself:)Not a big deal.
The GD issue is easliy answerable...They are not as common as Pit bulls thus there are fewer in the population. Also, they were bred to guard, which makes them prone to territorialism rather than straight up DA
The GD issue is easliy answerable...They are not as common as Pit bulls thus there are fewer in the population. Also, they were bred to guard, which makes them prone to territorialism rather than straight up DA
132
Teh goggle says that "KB" is a licensed vet technician. The killed and injured dogs are apparently not hers. The story in the comments of the killed puppy indicated that dogs killing dogs at the dog park are not news. The dog park is the last place I would take a dog for exercise or socialization because a small number of owners of challenging dogs know dick about dogs.
Every breed of dog has a distinct temperament that conscientious breeders strive to maintain. Pit bulls are likely to be randomly bred by their owners, so you never know what you're going to get. The most dog-aggressive dogs I've seen have been beagles -- but beagles can't do that much damage.
Only people very experienced with dogs should own dogs with aggressive temperaments.
Every breed of dog has a distinct temperament that conscientious breeders strive to maintain. Pit bulls are likely to be randomly bred by their owners, so you never know what you're going to get. The most dog-aggressive dogs I've seen have been beagles -- but beagles can't do that much damage.
Only people very experienced with dogs should own dogs with aggressive temperaments.
133
@131 Yes Julie there are not as many... however...
You simply cannot tell me that if a 145 lb massive Great Dane mauled a child, they wouldn't kill it and dismember it into tiny pieces. And... if such a scenario were to happen, that it wouldn't make national news, due to the immense size of said Great Dane, and the "picture" of a huge animal mauling/killing a young child.
It simply doesn't happen. And statistically, there are enough GD's around, and there have been enough GD's in the USA in the past 15 years, that we would have heard of a story somewhere. And even if we heard one or even two examples, it would be newsworthy. Compare that with the thousands of examples of pits. You don't need to go back years. You don't need to go back months. They are everywhere.
It cannot be denied that when talking statistics and proportions that we have a huge problem in this country that bleeding heart humans refuse to allow laws to be created for the good of the whole population.
Once again... I ask... why... would anyone considering a dog... and considering that there are hundreds of breeds of dogs.... intentionally and deliberately choose to own a pit? There are none. There is no reason not to choose a different breed.
Maybe if shelters didn't allow pits to be adopted, we'd see this "popularity" crash. It is quite likely that the logic goes hand in hand with the availability and large amount of "adoptable" pits in shelters, and that the problem is simply multiplying itsself thru sheer human ignorance.
Considering the general ignorance that exists in the US population, I think I might have discovered my own answer.
You simply cannot tell me that if a 145 lb massive Great Dane mauled a child, they wouldn't kill it and dismember it into tiny pieces. And... if such a scenario were to happen, that it wouldn't make national news, due to the immense size of said Great Dane, and the "picture" of a huge animal mauling/killing a young child.
It simply doesn't happen. And statistically, there are enough GD's around, and there have been enough GD's in the USA in the past 15 years, that we would have heard of a story somewhere. And even if we heard one or even two examples, it would be newsworthy. Compare that with the thousands of examples of pits. You don't need to go back years. You don't need to go back months. They are everywhere.
It cannot be denied that when talking statistics and proportions that we have a huge problem in this country that bleeding heart humans refuse to allow laws to be created for the good of the whole population.
Once again... I ask... why... would anyone considering a dog... and considering that there are hundreds of breeds of dogs.... intentionally and deliberately choose to own a pit? There are none. There is no reason not to choose a different breed.
Maybe if shelters didn't allow pits to be adopted, we'd see this "popularity" crash. It is quite likely that the logic goes hand in hand with the availability and large amount of "adoptable" pits in shelters, and that the problem is simply multiplying itsself thru sheer human ignorance.
Considering the general ignorance that exists in the US population, I think I might have discovered my own answer.
134
Umm Great Danes are on that list of 75 banned breeds in the US. Just before your beloved Labs...
http://www.asaspades.org/2009/04/list-of…
Wow your storytelling is fabulous. It is a PROVEN fact that the only thing pit bull bans do is take away good dogs from families that have never had any sign of bite history, because of your hypothetical number of people being brutally attacked by pitbulls. They don't even hinder the criminal underbelly that actually take advantage of this dog.
The problem with your ban is this can you even pick out the pit bull? 3 breeds are listed under the pit bull name American Staffordshire, American Bull Terrier, and Staffordshire Terrier. There are 36 OTHER breeds that have bully looks and are often called pit bulls included Cane Corso, Dogo Argentine, Presa Canario, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, American Bulldogs, etc. Lets see how good you are at picking the right ones to cull. Bet you kill a few innocents. The only way to know for sure is to DNA test. Funny thing is often these dogs that are labeled as pits in the pound would come back as mixed up mutts with little pit bull blood at all.
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthe…
And if the cases that are listed with dog attacks are so rare, then why are there 138,000 results? Wonder if the child that was attacked by the Great Dane today thought her 5 minutes of being dragged around and mauled by it were short.
Misconception #1:BSL Targets the Most Reported Biters
Let's also be fair: Dog bite reports are notoriously inaccurate, relying heavily on personal perception and possible bias when labeling a dog's breed. Whenever a dog is a mixed breed, it should be labeled as such.
Willmar, Minnesota : For several years, the number one biters have been "mixed breed" dogs, followed by Labrador Retrievers.
Iowan city
For three years in a row, Labrador Retrievers have topped the bite list
Victoria, Australia
Between 1997-1999, 700 attacks were reported. Forty-six breeds were identified.
- German Shepherd: 127 attacks
- Cattle dog: 90 attacks
In fact, Rottweilers, Kelpies, Labrador Retrievers,Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers,Crossbreeds, Dobermans, Boxers, Jack Russell Terriers, and Rhodesian Ridgebacks bit more frequently than the American Pit Bull Terrier (21 bites).
In Winnipeg
1989: 31% of dog bites committed by German Shepherds and their crosses; only 9% committed by pit bulls and their mixes.
Pit bulls banned.
(Source for the two UK references and Winnipeg)
Edmonton, Canada - Since a 1997 implementation of breed restriction, 4 breeds have the same bite rate as pit bulls and 11 breeds exceed the number of bites inflicted by pit bulls. Source: Page 8
Kitchener/Waterloo
- Number of pit bull bites: 18. Number of German Shepherd bites: 85
- Pit bulls banned.
Perth County,Ontario
- Dog bite statistics compiled since January 2002 show just 1% of bites attributed to 'pit bulls'. One third of reported bites were caused by mixed breed dogs, and the top five biting breeds were, in order: Chow Chow, Jack Russell Terrier, Labrador Retriever, Dachshund, and Rottweiler. Source
Ottawa, Ontario - Of the nearly 900 reports of bite incidents in Ottawa, Ontario for the last three years, only five were attributable to pit bulls. The largest number of bite incidents involved Black Labrador Retrievers and Golden Retrievers. Source
UK study Percentage of bites by THREE breeds (American Pit Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, Doberman) BEFORE BSL: 6%
Percentage of bites by German Shepherd BEFORE BSL: 24%
German Shepherds are not banned.
http://community.livejournal.com/stop_bs…
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More...
http://www.asaspades.org/2009/04/list-of…
Wow your storytelling is fabulous. It is a PROVEN fact that the only thing pit bull bans do is take away good dogs from families that have never had any sign of bite history, because of your hypothetical number of people being brutally attacked by pitbulls. They don't even hinder the criminal underbelly that actually take advantage of this dog.
The problem with your ban is this can you even pick out the pit bull? 3 breeds are listed under the pit bull name American Staffordshire, American Bull Terrier, and Staffordshire Terrier. There are 36 OTHER breeds that have bully looks and are often called pit bulls included Cane Corso, Dogo Argentine, Presa Canario, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, American Bulldogs, etc. Lets see how good you are at picking the right ones to cull. Bet you kill a few innocents. The only way to know for sure is to DNA test. Funny thing is often these dogs that are labeled as pits in the pound would come back as mixed up mutts with little pit bull blood at all.
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthe…
And if the cases that are listed with dog attacks are so rare, then why are there 138,000 results? Wonder if the child that was attacked by the Great Dane today thought her 5 minutes of being dragged around and mauled by it were short.
Misconception #1:BSL Targets the Most Reported Biters
Let's also be fair: Dog bite reports are notoriously inaccurate, relying heavily on personal perception and possible bias when labeling a dog's breed. Whenever a dog is a mixed breed, it should be labeled as such.
Willmar, Minnesota : For several years, the number one biters have been "mixed breed" dogs, followed by Labrador Retrievers.
Iowan city
For three years in a row, Labrador Retrievers have topped the bite list
Victoria, Australia
Between 1997-1999, 700 attacks were reported. Forty-six breeds were identified.
- German Shepherd: 127 attacks
- Cattle dog: 90 attacks
In fact, Rottweilers, Kelpies, Labrador Retrievers,Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers,Crossbreeds, Dobermans, Boxers, Jack Russell Terriers, and Rhodesian Ridgebacks bit more frequently than the American Pit Bull Terrier (21 bites).
In Winnipeg
1989: 31% of dog bites committed by German Shepherds and their crosses; only 9% committed by pit bulls and their mixes.
Pit bulls banned.
(Source for the two UK references and Winnipeg)
Edmonton, Canada - Since a 1997 implementation of breed restriction, 4 breeds have the same bite rate as pit bulls and 11 breeds exceed the number of bites inflicted by pit bulls. Source: Page 8
Kitchener/Waterloo
- Number of pit bull bites: 18. Number of German Shepherd bites: 85
- Pit bulls banned.
Perth County,Ontario
- Dog bite statistics compiled since January 2002 show just 1% of bites attributed to 'pit bulls'. One third of reported bites were caused by mixed breed dogs, and the top five biting breeds were, in order: Chow Chow, Jack Russell Terrier, Labrador Retriever, Dachshund, and Rottweiler. Source
Ottawa, Ontario - Of the nearly 900 reports of bite incidents in Ottawa, Ontario for the last three years, only five were attributable to pit bulls. The largest number of bite incidents involved Black Labrador Retrievers and Golden Retrievers. Source
UK study Percentage of bites by THREE breeds (American Pit Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, Doberman) BEFORE BSL: 6%
Percentage of bites by German Shepherd BEFORE BSL: 24%
German Shepherds are not banned.
http://community.livejournal.com/stop_bs…
\
135
@ 134 hahahahaahhaah
Are you serious? You expect us to take you seriously when you post a blog website of some individual who names the "Responsible Dog Owners Of The Western States (RDOWS) " as it's source? Really?
hahahahaahaha
puh-leaseeeeee!
This "group" of highly influential individuals hails from .... Newport WA hahahaha
Ohhhhh maybe I should go join their Yahoo newsgroup! hhahahahaha
Furthermore... this "group" that created this list... is also the same group that opposes breedspecific legislation? bwhahahahaa
are you pimping your own site(s) Cherie Graves? Inquiring minds want to know!
quote:
About Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States is a not for profit organization founded October 15, 1989. RDOWS promotes responsible dog ownership through educational programs, pamphlets, fliers, and this group & website.
RDOWS supports the right of every person to own the breed, or mixed breed of dog of his/her choice in a responsible manner.
fyi rocketscientist... this "email" and hoax has been travelling the internet for awhile now... and has been used in "debates" anytime a ban discussion has occurred. You really are a talking shill aren't you?
Are you serious? You expect us to take you seriously when you post a blog website of some individual who names the "Responsible Dog Owners Of The Western States (RDOWS) " as it's source? Really?
hahahahaahaha
puh-leaseeeeee!
This "group" of highly influential individuals hails from .... Newport WA hahahaha
Ohhhhh maybe I should go join their Yahoo newsgroup! hhahahahaha
Furthermore... this "group" that created this list... is also the same group that opposes breedspecific legislation? bwhahahahaa
are you pimping your own site(s) Cherie Graves? Inquiring minds want to know!
quote:
About Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States is a not for profit organization founded October 15, 1989. RDOWS promotes responsible dog ownership through educational programs, pamphlets, fliers, and this group & website.
RDOWS supports the right of every person to own the breed, or mixed breed of dog of his/her choice in a responsible manner.
fyi rocketscientist... this "email" and hoax has been travelling the internet for awhile now... and has been used in "debates" anytime a ban discussion has occurred. You really are a talking shill aren't you?
137
@134... ohh and for the record... in regards to all the afore named breeds you posted... BAN THEM ALL if they are associated with Pit Bulls. Period. We need to exterminate the breed(s) that have been bred for fighting, and continue to cause problems with humans, and other more gentle breeds.
Please do us all a favor, and stop SPAMMING this site with "LiveJournal" articles, "BlogSpot" blogs, etc etc... as verifiable "sources" mmmmm k?
All these sites are is talking pieces for pit loving morons, who continually fail to acknowledge that their beloved breed has serious flaws. They each go out and create "ban lists", and silly articles, and each continues to point at the other as "sources".
What a joke.
Please do us all a favor, and stop SPAMMING this site with "LiveJournal" articles, "BlogSpot" blogs, etc etc... as verifiable "sources" mmmmm k?
All these sites are is talking pieces for pit loving morons, who continually fail to acknowledge that their beloved breed has serious flaws. They each go out and create "ban lists", and silly articles, and each continues to point at the other as "sources".
What a joke.
138
A Great Dane show dog mauled it's owner/handler (an adult)this summer and it was covered by ZERO National News Networks and 1 Local. You can find it on the KC Dogblog...I can't post a link to save my life so I won't bother, but this DID happen and It was not picked up by the media
140
@139 no. definitely not. I do want the "other" marginally agressive breeds to have restrictions on both dogs and owners.
See my post @121 (expand it), and @129 for the proposal.
See my post @121 (expand it), and @129 for the proposal.
142
You are friggin JAck ASS!! What studies do you cite? You laugh at the ones that include blog posts, but deny the CDC studies and AVMA.
The 75 dogs on that list are dogs that have been banned or have restrictions in the US. Just because it was compiled by someone in a group called RDOWS, does not make it inaccurate. Check each one I bet you will find locations in the US that ban the dogs on the list. Nice that you finally clicked ONE of the attachments sent. That is the only one you can dispute eh?
How about the bully test? How'd you do? Did you kill the boxer? How bout your lab? You probably got that one right.
I am no shill. I have been around pibbles and own one myself. I believed the stories before I did my research too. Now I will heartily stand up for the breed I own. Any dog is what you make them. The CDC, AVMA, ATTS temperament testing, CGC testing, therapy dog certification, all these groups would have to be off their rockers to allow pit bulls to continue if they did what you say they do. The reality is there are a few bad bulls that give a bad name to the majority of the good ones. The stories you hear cause an uproar and keep the comment sections full as people debate, which means money for the stranger and other news outlets. The titles of other dogs attacking don't make headlines because they are not considered as important. If there was a check on how many dogs had been killed at dog parks pit bulls would be on the list, but so would a lot of other dogs too.
AND I have had enough of your trolling stupidity. you want to start fights and pull facts that cannot be cited than call me an idiot. Look in the mirror SPAZ!
The 75 dogs on that list are dogs that have been banned or have restrictions in the US. Just because it was compiled by someone in a group called RDOWS, does not make it inaccurate. Check each one I bet you will find locations in the US that ban the dogs on the list. Nice that you finally clicked ONE of the attachments sent. That is the only one you can dispute eh?
How about the bully test? How'd you do? Did you kill the boxer? How bout your lab? You probably got that one right.
I am no shill. I have been around pibbles and own one myself. I believed the stories before I did my research too. Now I will heartily stand up for the breed I own. Any dog is what you make them. The CDC, AVMA, ATTS temperament testing, CGC testing, therapy dog certification, all these groups would have to be off their rockers to allow pit bulls to continue if they did what you say they do. The reality is there are a few bad bulls that give a bad name to the majority of the good ones. The stories you hear cause an uproar and keep the comment sections full as people debate, which means money for the stranger and other news outlets. The titles of other dogs attacking don't make headlines because they are not considered as important. If there was a check on how many dogs had been killed at dog parks pit bulls would be on the list, but so would a lot of other dogs too.
AND I have had enough of your trolling stupidity. you want to start fights and pull facts that cannot be cited than call me an idiot. Look in the mirror SPAZ!
143
I love how the counter-argument to claims that pit bulls are dangerous is "There are lots of other breeds that are dangerous too!" This would seem like an argument to ban almost all dogs.
144
@141 Hence the heavy restrictions, insurance and licensure requirements that need to be placed on them. Pit Bulls and all sub-variants need to be eliminated from the gene pool.
Hell I'll even compromise a bit further, and suggest that we immediately spade and neuter all current pits, with the phaseout goal occurring with 5-8 years, once current pits start dying off naturally.
There simply is no need for a dog bred for fighting anymore, if there even ever was. There are many other breeds to choose a family pet from.
My earlier question related to this has still to yet be answered:
Once again... I ask... why... would anyone considering a dog... and considering that there are hundreds of breeds of dogs.... intentionally and deliberately choose to own a pit?
Simply stated, there is NO reason not to choose a different dog from a different breed.
That is why I don't believe those arguing against pit bans are doing so in good faith. The underlying logic of why they "should" be owned simply isn't there. The stated purpose of pits is no longer legal, ethical or moral. Why would you want to own something that has the potential to think/act on its own and cause you legal and monetary disaster?
Hell I'll even compromise a bit further, and suggest that we immediately spade and neuter all current pits, with the phaseout goal occurring with 5-8 years, once current pits start dying off naturally.
There simply is no need for a dog bred for fighting anymore, if there even ever was. There are many other breeds to choose a family pet from.
My earlier question related to this has still to yet be answered:
Once again... I ask... why... would anyone considering a dog... and considering that there are hundreds of breeds of dogs.... intentionally and deliberately choose to own a pit?
Simply stated, there is NO reason not to choose a different dog from a different breed.
That is why I don't believe those arguing against pit bans are doing so in good faith. The underlying logic of why they "should" be owned simply isn't there. The stated purpose of pits is no longer legal, ethical or moral. Why would you want to own something that has the potential to think/act on its own and cause you legal and monetary disaster?
146
@21, 43, 46, .... 145 et al.
No amount of Breed Specific Laws are going to change the fact that black people live in your neighborhood. So, stop being racist assholes who use dogs as a proxy for race.
At 20 deaths per year dogs are far from a legitimate threat to our safety. But, still people crap themselves over Pit Bulls so they can make thinly veiled threats against black people.
You all need to shut up and put your time into something constructive for society.
No amount of Breed Specific Laws are going to change the fact that black people live in your neighborhood. So, stop being racist assholes who use dogs as a proxy for race.
At 20 deaths per year dogs are far from a legitimate threat to our safety. But, still people crap themselves over Pit Bulls so they can make thinly veiled threats against black people.
You all need to shut up and put your time into something constructive for society.
147
All these posts about banning breeds are just a distraction. The problem is the irresponsible owners who bring aggressive dogs to off-leash areas and let them run loose. They are breaking the rules of the off-leash areas. And they are breaking laws. Other dog owners who witness the behavior of these irresponsible people who fail to control their aggressive dog should be reporting these incidents to animal control. And the owners of dogs that are injured or killed should file complaints and demand that the city enforce the laws that are already on the books. These jerks are ruining it for everyone else.
148
I am in total agreement. As a dog owner who has frequented the Magnuson Park off-leash park for the past 15 years, I have witnessed occasional dog aggression from a variety of breeds. But most recently, because of the surge in pit bull ownership I suppose, I have observed most dog aggression from pit bulls. One of the park rules is that male dogs are to be altered, which does prevent a lot of problems. But if your dog is not well socialized, he/she should not be brought to the dog park at all. I will make sure to carry a cell phone with me from now on when at the dog park to call 911 when I observe dogs such as the ones who committed the recent heinous crime to report the OWNER.
149
It is a park rule they have to be altered? Please show me where it says this. I could find no such "rule" when looking. It is not posted anywhere at the park...
My dog will never be altered, as he is too valuable for later breeding. There is no way that could be a requirement for a public park as that is discriminatory against well behaved intact males.
Maybe we can require owners of pit bulls to be altered if their dogs are involved in violent assaults?
Hmmm now that is something I think we can all support!
My dog will never be altered, as he is too valuable for later breeding. There is no way that could be a requirement for a public park as that is discriminatory against well behaved intact males.
Maybe we can require owners of pit bulls to be altered if their dogs are involved in violent assaults?
Hmmm now that is something I think we can all support!
150
Here is the link:
http://www.seattle.gov/parks/publication…
YO, HUMANS!
You are liable for damage or injury inflicted by your dog(s) (SMC 18.12.080).
You must be in control of your dog(s) at all times (SMC 18.12.080).
You must muzzle dogs that exhibit dangerous or aggressive behavior; biting, fighting, and excessive barking are not allowed (SMC 9.25.024).
You must leash your dog when it is outside the off-leash area; you must carry a leash for each dog while you are inside the off-leash area (SMC 9.25.084 and 12.18.080).
You must clean up after your dog(s) and deposit feces in the containers at the site, and you must visibly carry scoop equipment (SMC 9.25.082 and 18.12.080).
You must closely supervise young children.
Bring food into off-leash areas at your own risk.
Leave bicycles outside off-leash area.
Unattended dogs are not allowed in off-leash areas.
Owners who see unattended dogs or other rule violations should call Animal Control at 206-386-7387, Extension 2.
----------------------------------
YO, DOGS!
If you're female and you're in heat, you are not allowed in off-leash areas (SMC 9.25.084).
If you're a puppy younger than four months of age, you are not allowed in off-leash areas.
To come and play in off-leash areas, you need to be licensed and vaccinated (SMC 9.25.080 and 12.18.080).
If you wear a pinch or choke collar, ask your human to remove it when you come into off-leash areas.
For more information, please call Animal Control at 206-386-7387.
Here is the full .pdf file: http://www.seattle.gov/parks/publication…
More...
http://www.seattle.gov/parks/publication…
YO, HUMANS!
You are liable for damage or injury inflicted by your dog(s) (SMC 18.12.080).
You must be in control of your dog(s) at all times (SMC 18.12.080).
You must muzzle dogs that exhibit dangerous or aggressive behavior; biting, fighting, and excessive barking are not allowed (SMC 9.25.024).
You must leash your dog when it is outside the off-leash area; you must carry a leash for each dog while you are inside the off-leash area (SMC 9.25.084 and 12.18.080).
You must clean up after your dog(s) and deposit feces in the containers at the site, and you must visibly carry scoop equipment (SMC 9.25.082 and 18.12.080).
You must closely supervise young children.
Bring food into off-leash areas at your own risk.
Leave bicycles outside off-leash area.
Unattended dogs are not allowed in off-leash areas.
Owners who see unattended dogs or other rule violations should call Animal Control at 206-386-7387, Extension 2.
----------------------------------
YO, DOGS!
If you're female and you're in heat, you are not allowed in off-leash areas (SMC 9.25.084).
If you're a puppy younger than four months of age, you are not allowed in off-leash areas.
To come and play in off-leash areas, you need to be licensed and vaccinated (SMC 9.25.080 and 12.18.080).
If you wear a pinch or choke collar, ask your human to remove it when you come into off-leash areas.
For more information, please call Animal Control at 206-386-7387.
Here is the full .pdf file: http://www.seattle.gov/parks/publication…
151
For years there was a very faded sign on the chain link entry gate at Magnuson Park with dog park rules. One year, I actually stopped and read it and was surprised that male dogs were supposed to be altered. When you go to the COLA website now, the "rules" section is under construction, so I don't know that this information is available currently. I'm not sure if the sign is still on the gate. Sorry......
152
@144...AGAIN BOXERS and BOSTON TERRIERS are among the 35 breeds "bred to fight".... you are arguing to ban/exterminate them as well?
153
Wow, Reality Check. You're a dick. Not even the sufferable kind who justify their existence by being really good at something. You're the worst combination of willful ignoramus and sanctimonious loud-mouth. The ineffective wannabe leader who makes up for impotence with bully.
Folks, the name Reality Check is a brilliant flash of irony. The only way you could make this any tastier is to wrap it in bacon. Whoever he or she is, they believe they can make the world a better place by masturbating all over The Stranger's website. Truly hoping that if only they bark loudly and wish hard enough, the world will bend to their will. Just let them. You aren't going to change their mind, and really, why would you want to bother? You may as well try to clean a disposable diaper; it would do about as much good as trying to redeem this person.
Folks, the name Reality Check is a brilliant flash of irony. The only way you could make this any tastier is to wrap it in bacon. Whoever he or she is, they believe they can make the world a better place by masturbating all over The Stranger's website. Truly hoping that if only they bark loudly and wish hard enough, the world will bend to their will. Just let them. You aren't going to change their mind, and really, why would you want to bother? You may as well try to clean a disposable diaper; it would do about as much good as trying to redeem this person.
154
@146: Serial killers are typically white males. If you want to call it racist, fine, but it's still a fact. Does the culture of dog fighting tend to be more prevalent amongst low-income males, particularly black, low-income males? 9 out or 10 cops would probably agree there. It's an issue that has to be dealt with honestly. And if we want to talk about jumping to racial conclusions here, the guy in question is a white male.
155
My roommate got a dog recently. She went to the humane society and picked up a mutt. He's a pit/something mix (we're not sure what the something is yet). Why a pit bull? He was calm and friendly and well-behaved.
Now he's five months old, and still sweet as can be. Well-socialized. Gets a bit jumpy around people at first but we're teaching him not to do that- it's puppy excitability, not hostility. In the two months we've had him, he's yet to so much as bare his teeth at anything.
I'd be real pissed if some thug got in our face about how we shouldn't have the dog, or even worse, demanded he be put down. There is unwarranted, even dangerous aggression in that scenario, but it's not coming from the dog.
Now he's five months old, and still sweet as can be. Well-socialized. Gets a bit jumpy around people at first but we're teaching him not to do that- it's puppy excitability, not hostility. In the two months we've had him, he's yet to so much as bare his teeth at anything.
I'd be real pissed if some thug got in our face about how we shouldn't have the dog, or even worse, demanded he be put down. There is unwarranted, even dangerous aggression in that scenario, but it's not coming from the dog.
156
Boxers should be banned too if you want to go that way. I was in a dog park up in Whidbey with my two dogs and a boxer (far, far away from his owner) attacked my two dogs and then me. I have had more run ins with badly behaved boxers than any other dog. I have met many very nice pitbulls, it depends on the owner. I have seen many owners with aggressive labs, poodles, and small dogs. Maybe when we license our dogs we should submit to backgrounds checks and those with a police record shouldn't be able to have any of the dogs historically used for fighting or guarding. No license, heavy fine.
157
Just got back fro magnuson today and hadn't heard about it (I'm a regular, but wasn't travelling)
one of the thoughts (and that all it is) floating around is that the maulings (apparently he has been back and another dog suffered a broken leg) may not have been exactly accidental
but that the individual may be training or testing his dogs for aggression/fighting on "fodder dogs"
(some folks are saying the individual did NOT attempt to call his dogs off)
It's, at best, a hypothesis and I don't mean to opine "this is what happened"
but it is an alternative to consider
While it sounds like ridiculously stupid and risky (even intterms of just being caught) - having been a male in my 20s, I can't say that particular demographic segment is club-good-judgement
one of the thoughts (and that all it is) floating around is that the maulings (apparently he has been back and another dog suffered a broken leg) may not have been exactly accidental
but that the individual may be training or testing his dogs for aggression/fighting on "fodder dogs"
(some folks are saying the individual did NOT attempt to call his dogs off)
It's, at best, a hypothesis and I don't mean to opine "this is what happened"
but it is an alternative to consider
While it sounds like ridiculously stupid and risky (even intterms of just being caught) - having been a male in my 20s, I can't say that particular demographic segment is club-good-judgement
158
#110:
If a Google search is a reliable statistical source, then you should search for "pit bull attacks" too. 1,920, 000 hits.
http://www.google.com/search?q=pit+bull+…
If a Google search is a reliable statistical source, then you should search for "pit bull attacks" too. 1,920, 000 hits.
http://www.google.com/search?q=pit+bull+…
159
If a Google search provides relevant statistics, why not search for pit bull attack? 1,920,000 hits!
http://www.google.com/search?q=pit+bull+…
http://www.google.com/search?q=pit+bull+…
160
All living things are born with a set of genetic blueprints. These genes control physical appearance and general temperament. Temperament is not a guarantee of behavior. You could say that a person is "quick-tempered," but if they existed in a vacuum, would they still be short-fused? If nothing exists, what could possibly cause such a person to be angry? Similarly, you could call a dog "friendly," but that dog is friendly because it has people and dogs to act friendly towards; if it had a friendly temperament but was the only living creature on the planet, what "friendly" behaviors could it exhibit?
The "pit bull problem" seems to center around whether aggression is inherent or learned. Let's cut to the chase. Aggression is a behavior. A complex behavior, to be sure, but a behavior nevertheless. And what do we know about behavior? It is influenced by environment and experience.
John Paul Scott is a scientific researcher who was interested in the interplay between genetics and behavior. He did experiments with mice to determine whether highly aggressive mice could be created through breeding.
"The experiments with mice show us that aggression has to be learned. Defensive fighting can be stimulated by the pain of an attack, but aggression, in the strict sense of an unprovoked attack, can only be produced by training... Heredity can enter into the picture only in such ways as lowering or raising the threshold of stimulation, or modifying the physical equipment for fighting... In considering hereditary effects, we must always remember that the environmental situation is also important..." - John Paul Scott, Aggression
Mr. Scott has done all the hard work for us. Aggression is a learned behavior.
"But," shouts a voice in the crowd, "I knew someone who had a dog that was never trained to be aggressive, but it still attacked someone without provocation. Scott is full of it!" This line of reasoning is fallacious because this person assumes that learning only occurs when a dog is formally trained by its owner. This idea is both naive and arrogant. Dogs learn life lessons from a variety of sources, including but not limited to the owner. For example, a dog's play, in which two dogs pounce, growl, and tussle in a playful manner, is actually ritualized aggression. When dogs play, they are practicing aggression.
Regardless of whether or not a dog is temperamentally inclined toward aggression, it is the owner that ultimately determines whether the dog actually has the opportunity to react aggressively and rehearse aggressive behavior. Owners who are responsible and involved do not put their dog in such situations; they do not give their dog the opportunity to practice or escalate aggression.
More...
The "pit bull problem" seems to center around whether aggression is inherent or learned. Let's cut to the chase. Aggression is a behavior. A complex behavior, to be sure, but a behavior nevertheless. And what do we know about behavior? It is influenced by environment and experience.
John Paul Scott is a scientific researcher who was interested in the interplay between genetics and behavior. He did experiments with mice to determine whether highly aggressive mice could be created through breeding.
"The experiments with mice show us that aggression has to be learned. Defensive fighting can be stimulated by the pain of an attack, but aggression, in the strict sense of an unprovoked attack, can only be produced by training... Heredity can enter into the picture only in such ways as lowering or raising the threshold of stimulation, or modifying the physical equipment for fighting... In considering hereditary effects, we must always remember that the environmental situation is also important..." - John Paul Scott, Aggression
Mr. Scott has done all the hard work for us. Aggression is a learned behavior.
"But," shouts a voice in the crowd, "I knew someone who had a dog that was never trained to be aggressive, but it still attacked someone without provocation. Scott is full of it!" This line of reasoning is fallacious because this person assumes that learning only occurs when a dog is formally trained by its owner. This idea is both naive and arrogant. Dogs learn life lessons from a variety of sources, including but not limited to the owner. For example, a dog's play, in which two dogs pounce, growl, and tussle in a playful manner, is actually ritualized aggression. When dogs play, they are practicing aggression.
Regardless of whether or not a dog is temperamentally inclined toward aggression, it is the owner that ultimately determines whether the dog actually has the opportunity to react aggressively and rehearse aggressive behavior. Owners who are responsible and involved do not put their dog in such situations; they do not give their dog the opportunity to practice or escalate aggression.
161
*A rescued pit bull, LawDogsUSA alumnus K9 Moto was presented with the the Washington State Veterinary Medical Association Animal Hall of Fame Award, Professional Division. Ironically, the awards ceremony took place in Yakima, a city that bans American Pit Bull Terriers.
162
THIS STORY IS A LIE
THE ATTACK DID NOT HAPPEN
NO DOGS WERE INJURED OR KILLED
THE PERPETRATORS DO NOT EXIST
this is a fabricated story made by person(s) who apparently want to stir up emotions over a potential breed ban.
(1) there is no police report.
(2) there is no veterinary report.
(3) there were no witnesses.
here is what there is:
a bunch of people in this town who believe that somewhere is an anonymous and unidentified woman who had her dogs killed with no one to see it, who then carried her two dead and/or dying dogs off all by herself, refused to take them to a vet, refused to call the police, refused to speak to any agency or media outlet, apparently disposed of the dogs' bodies without any help, and now goes around posting unsigned anonymous signs at the dog park about evil pit bulls and a tatooed young man who killed her dogs.
you people need to get some critical thinking skills.
THIS STORY IS A LIE
THE ATTACK DID NOT HAPPEN
NO DOGS WERE INJURED OR KILLED
THE PERPETRATORS DO NOT EXIST
this is a fabricated story made by person(s) who apparently want to stir up emotions over a potential breed ban.
(1) there is no police report.
(2) there is no veterinary report.
(3) there were no witnesses.
here is what there is:
a bunch of people in this town who believe that somewhere is an anonymous and unidentified woman who had her dogs killed with no one to see it, who then carried her two dead and/or dying dogs off all by herself, refused to take them to a vet, refused to call the police, refused to speak to any agency or media outlet, apparently disposed of the dogs' bodies without any help, and now goes around posting unsigned anonymous signs at the dog park about evil pit bulls and a tatooed young man who killed her dogs.
you people need to get some critical thinking skills.
163
Over the past 44 years (1965 -present) there have been nine (9) fatal dog attacks in Washington State, an average of one (1) fatality every five (5) years.
At least seven (7) different breeds/types of dogs have been identified as participating in the nine fatalities.
The victims were 2 adults and 7 children.
All the child victims had either been left alone with a dog or had wandered off to the location of the dog.
In 1978, a six-week-old Federal Way infant was killed after he was left unattended with a dog that had just recently been allowed into the home.
In 1990, a six-day-old infant was left unattended on the floor of his grandmother’s Lacey home. The grandmother’s dog attacked and killed him.
In 1999, an elderly woman visiting her daughter in Port Orchard, went out into the backyard. The daughter owned two dogs, a neutered male and a female. For reasons unknown, the male (pictured above) attacked and killed the woman. The female did not participate.
In 2003, a mother visiting the home of an acquaintance in Tacoma, allowed her 3-year-old child to play, unsupervised, in the backyard with three unfamiliar dogs. The two intact males and one intact female were reportedly “being kept at the premises as a favor for a friend.” One of the male dogs (white dog pictured above) attacked the boy. The other two dogs (one of the two non-participating dogs pictured above), although able, did not participate.
At least seven (7) different breeds/types of dogs have been identified as participating in the nine fatalities.
The victims were 2 adults and 7 children.
All the child victims had either been left alone with a dog or had wandered off to the location of the dog.
In 1978, a six-week-old Federal Way infant was killed after he was left unattended with a dog that had just recently been allowed into the home.
In 1990, a six-day-old infant was left unattended on the floor of his grandmother’s Lacey home. The grandmother’s dog attacked and killed him.
In 1999, an elderly woman visiting her daughter in Port Orchard, went out into the backyard. The daughter owned two dogs, a neutered male and a female. For reasons unknown, the male (pictured above) attacked and killed the woman. The female did not participate.
In 2003, a mother visiting the home of an acquaintance in Tacoma, allowed her 3-year-old child to play, unsupervised, in the backyard with three unfamiliar dogs. The two intact males and one intact female were reportedly “being kept at the premises as a favor for a friend.” One of the male dogs (white dog pictured above) attacked the boy. The other two dogs (one of the two non-participating dogs pictured above), although able, did not participate.
164
Washington: Recognized Risks Year 2005
Tobacco related fatalities 8,300
Total (alcohol & non) traffic deaths 649
Alcohol-related traffic fatalities 302
Persons drowned in tub or swimming pool 20
Bicycle-related fatalities 20
ATV-related fatalities 16
Death after contact w/bees, hornets, wasps 1
Child hyperthermia deaths (in hot cars) 1
Persons killed by dogs 0
Tobacco related fatalities 8,300
Total (alcohol & non) traffic deaths 649
Alcohol-related traffic fatalities 302
Persons drowned in tub or swimming pool 20
Bicycle-related fatalities 20
ATV-related fatalities 16
Death after contact w/bees, hornets, wasps 1
Child hyperthermia deaths (in hot cars) 1
Persons killed by dogs 0
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According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:
In 2005, nine (9) Washington State children died as a result of maltreatment (abuse, neglect).
In a single year, 2005, more Washington children died from maltreatment than the total of all children killed by dogs in the state over the past 44 years.
***
Fact is, people in Washington State routinely accept far greater risks from ATVs, bicycles and swimming pools than any that are associated with companion animals.
National Canine Research Council
In 2005, nine (9) Washington State children died as a result of maltreatment (abuse, neglect).
In a single year, 2005, more Washington children died from maltreatment than the total of all children killed by dogs in the state over the past 44 years.
***
Fact is, people in Washington State routinely accept far greater risks from ATVs, bicycles and swimming pools than any that are associated with companion animals.
National Canine Research Council
166
From the Best Friends Animal Society campaign Pit Bull: Saving America's Dog -
"Neighboring Aurora (Colorado) passed their own breed discriminatory law effective in 2006, with a promise that they would revisit the issues and evaluate its effectiveness in 2008. After that two year period, statistics showed that the rate of dog bites in the city had actually increased 26%, a striking reversal of the recently declining number of serious dog bites in the city.
Rather than facing its failure, however, Aurora officials changed the methodology and criteria used to record dog bites, which allowed them to obfuscate these numbers and release a report claiming victory, as the number of bites by 'pit bulls' had decreased. (Notably, the number of bites by 'pit bulls' only accounted for single-digit percentages of dog bites in the first place.)"
Breed specific legislation just doesn't work. It's bad owners who are the problem.
"Neighboring Aurora (Colorado) passed their own breed discriminatory law effective in 2006, with a promise that they would revisit the issues and evaluate its effectiveness in 2008. After that two year period, statistics showed that the rate of dog bites in the city had actually increased 26%, a striking reversal of the recently declining number of serious dog bites in the city.
Rather than facing its failure, however, Aurora officials changed the methodology and criteria used to record dog bites, which allowed them to obfuscate these numbers and release a report claiming victory, as the number of bites by 'pit bulls' had decreased. (Notably, the number of bites by 'pit bulls' only accounted for single-digit percentages of dog bites in the first place.)"
Breed specific legislation just doesn't work. It's bad owners who are the problem.
167
It's not fair to pick on pit bulls specifically. All fighting dogs have this problem. The respect of another dog's submission (universal in the dog world, outside of fighting dogs) was bred out of them. When the other dog submits, they are bred to go in for the kill. They were also bred never to let go once they get a grip. Dogs that do neither of these are no good at killing other dogs, so these weak ones were culled from the line.
It's not their fault, it's the breeding. Fighting dogs were designed for killing other dogs, period. But fighting-dog owners who deny that this breeding took place, or deny that breeding for traits is even possible, are idiots and should not own a fighting breed.
It's not their fault, it's the breeding. Fighting dogs were designed for killing other dogs, period. But fighting-dog owners who deny that this breeding took place, or deny that breeding for traits is even possible, are idiots and should not own a fighting breed.
168
Hmmm the telephone number on the flyer is not 911 or animal control, there are no complaints registered with animal control, not even from the vet who treated the deceased boxer, and there are no witnesses even though the Magnuson Off Leash park is packed at noon. Even if the beach area where these attacks occurred was deserted, how do you get hysterical owners carrying bloody dogs from the beach area out of the off leash park without anyone coming to their aid or calling 911? Maybe these attacks happened, but something is just not right here.
169
124- I'm not being "cute with a lie". There is nothing cute about watching a dog tear apart your dog's intestines! When we got her to Animal Critical Care, she had her intestine's ripped apart and one kidney was bitten in half. It cost us $3,000 in the end to put her through surgery and then put her down b/c they couldn't repair the damage. I didn't post this to get sympathy or try to "be cute". I posted it because it's ridiculous that these things only get reported on the news when a pit bull is involved. When it's a lab that attacks, it's apparently not news, but if it's a pit bull, it's leading story stuff.
http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/10/28/m…
http://seattle.metblogs.com/2008/10/28/m…
170
I suspect it is not true also... why has no authority come forward to confirm, and to issue warnings?
171
the Bothell City Council is currently debating a Breed Ban for the city of Bothell.
council member "hope to have laws written by the beginning of the year"
the timing of this mysterious killer pitbulls and their vanishing victims is extremely suspicious.
council member "hope to have laws written by the beginning of the year"
the timing of this mysterious killer pitbulls and their vanishing victims is extremely suspicious.
172
*yawn*
All of you "It now looks like it couldn't have happened" conspiracists are hilarious!
Of course you can explain away the lady that was interviewed on camera as having witnessed the attack right? She was interviewed on Fox News 13 the same day.
Please carry on now... you are entertaining to watch!
lol
All of you "It now looks like it couldn't have happened" conspiracists are hilarious!
Of course you can explain away the lady that was interviewed on camera as having witnessed the attack right? She was interviewed on Fox News 13 the same day.
Please carry on now... you are entertaining to watch!
lol
173
where is this "witness". ive searched every news station, and the only one with any "reporting" is KOMO, who interviewed one "Kimberly Bundrick", a "friend of the victim", who is the one posting all the signs and passing out the fliers, but did NOT witness the event.
in fact, in both cases, the person making the reports of dog attack is a "friend" of the owner who is apparently "too distraught" to speak about it. the alleged "second attack" also involves a dog owner who is nowhere to be found. only "evidence" is his "friend" who called Animal Control to make a second-hand report.
let's review the data. Specifically:
(1) Official Police Reports
(2) Eyewitness Reports
(3) Veterinary Reports of dogs death and/or injuries
(4) Pictures of the victims' dogs, preferably ones documenting injuries.
(5a) Evidence of killed dog's carcass/remains
or
(5b) Record of disposal of killed dog's remains
(6) Testimony or public statement from the owner of attacked dogs.
wait a second, you mean we've got nothing? nothing at all?? not a single official report, anywhere???
So, if I'm to believe this story, the entire City of Seattle must now be on the lookout for a "tattooed young man" with three pit bulls running around killing dogs at will, in crowded dog parks at noon, only to have both the perpetrator and the victims vanish into thin air?
is this about right?
where is this "witness". ive searched every news station, and the only one with any "reporting" is KOMO, who interviewed one "Kimberly Bundrick", a "friend of the victim", who is the one posting all the signs and passing out the fliers, but did NOT witness the event.
in fact, in both cases, the person making the reports of dog attack is a "friend" of the owner who is apparently "too distraught" to speak about it. the alleged "second attack" also involves a dog owner who is nowhere to be found. only "evidence" is his "friend" who called Animal Control to make a second-hand report.
let's review the data. Specifically:
(1) Official Police Reports
(2) Eyewitness Reports
(3) Veterinary Reports of dogs death and/or injuries
(4) Pictures of the victims' dogs, preferably ones documenting injuries.
(5a) Evidence of killed dog's carcass/remains
or
(5b) Record of disposal of killed dog's remains
(6) Testimony or public statement from the owner of attacked dogs.
wait a second, you mean we've got nothing? nothing at all?? not a single official report, anywhere???
So, if I'm to believe this story, the entire City of Seattle must now be on the lookout for a "tattooed young man" with three pit bulls running around killing dogs at will, in crowded dog parks at noon, only to have both the perpetrator and the victims vanish into thin air?
is this about right?
174
@80, my wife and our dog were attacked by a pit bull in our city neighborhood. My wife scared off the dog before it got to ours (PBs generally attack dogs, not humans, and this human is fierce). We are now proud owners of a stun baton. I don't want to have to be that lucky again.
I see a ton of logisical problems in solving the pit bull problem and don't have a good solution, but my gut from reading newspaper reports and our family's experience is that we have a problem with pit bulls.
I see a ton of logisical problems in solving the pit bull problem and don't have a good solution, but my gut from reading newspaper reports and our family's experience is that we have a problem with pit bulls.
175
Ok first of all these are not "vicious animals". The american pitbull terrier is a working bred dog that was bred for close to 150 years without any of the media frenzy youve seen in the last 20 years or so. Thats because for most of this breeds history these dogs were kept by people who knew the breed and really cared about it, or sadly-dog fighters. The pitbull has an intense drive inside of it that was developed primarily in the fighting pits of the early 1900's when bull baiting sports were made illegal so people began putting dogs on each other for the sake of what they saw as "sport". Over the years fewer dogs were bred for this purpose but it did create a dog that was strong, fearless, and a never quit attitude that friends of the breed know and love.
The Pitbull is as american as a golden retriever and was our mascot through most of the early 20th century. The most decorated war dog in history is a pitbull named "Seargent Stubby". These dogs were kept by families, presidents, and common people and regarded as a great family pet, though because of its history, will not walk away from a scrap with something else on four legs!
So what happened? Well, like all strong breeds of dog, in the wrong hands, the consequences can be devestating. The pitbull became a status symbol for "tough guys", rappers, and anyone else who needed a dog to be what they knew they really werent. Basically people who have no business owning a dog that requires the training, companionship, stimulation, and attention that a pitbull does, flocked to this breed because they were the new cool thing. The 70s and 80s had the doberman, the german sheperd and rottweiler, now it was the pitbull. People began training the dogs to show human aggression, a trait which unlike some dogs bred for K9 or protection work is tolerable if not encouraged, which is not characteristic or desirable in a pitbull. It was actually entirely bred out of the dogs for the sake of pit fighting when a referee would have to be able to seperate the dogs without fear of getting bit. So this macho mentality essentially reversed close to 100 years of selective breeding and gave you the sensationalized headline "PITBULL EATS BABY!!"
The pitbull is perfect athlete. It can run fast, jump high, bite hard, and never quit. Its like the ferrari of the dog world, now do you give a 16 year old kid the keys to a ferrari? Basically we have a alot of kids driving ferraris right now. Pitbulls excell at all sorts of activities for which to direct their intense drive and motivation into these include weight pull competition, agility, and schutzund or protection work, or just plain chasing a tennis ball all day long.
I own two of these dogs. They are my life, they give me every bit of love they have to give and I return it as best I can, they love everyone who comes to my house and that they meet on the street as well as children. They can get along with other dogs as long as they are introduced in a controlled manner with lots of time and patience. They do however NOT go to the dog park. I know better than this, they are powerful and could severely hurt another dog, I do have control over them and for the most part and i can keep them out of situations but I would rather avoid them altogether. I also DO NOT leave them alone with children, nor would i ever with any dog. This breed is not for everyone and requires a great commitment on the part of the owner that I dont think most people understand.I have put dogs down for showing instability around humans and i dont regret it, i have also had my dogs get into bad fights and I know what they can do. I also know how much they can love you and will do anything you ask of them, which with what some people ask them to do, is their downfall.
I would just implore all of you who read articles like this to try to judge it on a case by case basis. The pitbull is not a "bad dog" and more than the weiner dog down the street who tries to kill me every time I walk by it is! it just happens to be very fashionable for irresponsible fools to own right now and it breaks my heart every time i read an article like this cause I just ask myself all these questions that the newspaper never would like "why in the hell were two pitbulls left alone with a baby?!" or "why the hell did you bring three dog aggressive pitbulls to a dog park?!" i would love to have a little sit down with all these dog owners and slap the hell out of them personally.
And as far as banning these dogs...it will never happen, and even if it does, the responsible owners will pay the price, and the people keeping fighting dogs on chains in their backyards will not, theyll just keep on doing what theyve been doing. I know too many good people that will not give their dogs up and I am one of them. You can come and try to take my dogs, I would love to see that scenario. I kill or be killed for them and they would do the same for me.
-Thank you, Jamie King
More...
The Pitbull is as american as a golden retriever and was our mascot through most of the early 20th century. The most decorated war dog in history is a pitbull named "Seargent Stubby". These dogs were kept by families, presidents, and common people and regarded as a great family pet, though because of its history, will not walk away from a scrap with something else on four legs!
So what happened? Well, like all strong breeds of dog, in the wrong hands, the consequences can be devestating. The pitbull became a status symbol for "tough guys", rappers, and anyone else who needed a dog to be what they knew they really werent. Basically people who have no business owning a dog that requires the training, companionship, stimulation, and attention that a pitbull does, flocked to this breed because they were the new cool thing. The 70s and 80s had the doberman, the german sheperd and rottweiler, now it was the pitbull. People began training the dogs to show human aggression, a trait which unlike some dogs bred for K9 or protection work is tolerable if not encouraged, which is not characteristic or desirable in a pitbull. It was actually entirely bred out of the dogs for the sake of pit fighting when a referee would have to be able to seperate the dogs without fear of getting bit. So this macho mentality essentially reversed close to 100 years of selective breeding and gave you the sensationalized headline "PITBULL EATS BABY!!"
The pitbull is perfect athlete. It can run fast, jump high, bite hard, and never quit. Its like the ferrari of the dog world, now do you give a 16 year old kid the keys to a ferrari? Basically we have a alot of kids driving ferraris right now. Pitbulls excell at all sorts of activities for which to direct their intense drive and motivation into these include weight pull competition, agility, and schutzund or protection work, or just plain chasing a tennis ball all day long.
I own two of these dogs. They are my life, they give me every bit of love they have to give and I return it as best I can, they love everyone who comes to my house and that they meet on the street as well as children. They can get along with other dogs as long as they are introduced in a controlled manner with lots of time and patience. They do however NOT go to the dog park. I know better than this, they are powerful and could severely hurt another dog, I do have control over them and for the most part and i can keep them out of situations but I would rather avoid them altogether. I also DO NOT leave them alone with children, nor would i ever with any dog. This breed is not for everyone and requires a great commitment on the part of the owner that I dont think most people understand.I have put dogs down for showing instability around humans and i dont regret it, i have also had my dogs get into bad fights and I know what they can do. I also know how much they can love you and will do anything you ask of them, which with what some people ask them to do, is their downfall.
I would just implore all of you who read articles like this to try to judge it on a case by case basis. The pitbull is not a "bad dog" and more than the weiner dog down the street who tries to kill me every time I walk by it is! it just happens to be very fashionable for irresponsible fools to own right now and it breaks my heart every time i read an article like this cause I just ask myself all these questions that the newspaper never would like "why in the hell were two pitbulls left alone with a baby?!" or "why the hell did you bring three dog aggressive pitbulls to a dog park?!" i would love to have a little sit down with all these dog owners and slap the hell out of them personally.
And as far as banning these dogs...it will never happen, and even if it does, the responsible owners will pay the price, and the people keeping fighting dogs on chains in their backyards will not, theyll just keep on doing what theyve been doing. I know too many good people that will not give their dogs up and I am one of them. You can come and try to take my dogs, I would love to see that scenario. I kill or be killed for them and they would do the same for me.
-Thank you, Jamie King
176
>> my gut from reading newspaper reports and our family's experience
is anecdotal.
I've read "newspaper reports" that tell me Obama is a secret muslim mole, and GWB won the war in Iraq.
My best friend had a Cocker Spaniel bite his face and split his upper lip, requiring a dozen stitches.and scarred his face for life. his "Family Experience" is prejudiced against vicious Cocker Spaniels
regardless, I'm glad to hear everything worked out alright for you and no one was injured.
is anecdotal.
I've read "newspaper reports" that tell me Obama is a secret muslim mole, and GWB won the war in Iraq.
My best friend had a Cocker Spaniel bite his face and split his upper lip, requiring a dozen stitches.and scarred his face for life. his "Family Experience" is prejudiced against vicious Cocker Spaniels
regardless, I'm glad to hear everything worked out alright for you and no one was injured.
177
You guys are all pussies. Just hoping the state and local government will come solve all your problems by banning this, that and the other thing that you think happens to be the problem until a better solution is reached. People need to be more responsible and accountable for things and not always count on things like animal control, which is mostly uneffective unless theyre issuing you a ticket at a city park for having your dog off leash. Got a problem with some guys pitbull? Tell him to fucking beat it and dont wait for someone else to do something about it and blog about it in the mean time. Typical fucking passive aggressive bed wetting liberal mentality. Seattle is becoming way too user friendly for my tastes and me and my pitbulls will be moving out to the country where they dont have to worry about being judged by "open minded" seattlites.....oh wait, open minded as long as it fits into your world view right?
179
It's not the breed. It's the owner. Breed specific legislation (laws banning pit bulls and other "vicious" breeds) does not stop irresponsible pet ownership. It's expensive, almost unenforcable and does not guarantee that biting/attack incidents do not occur. It is unfortunate that certain breeds bring out the idiot in some people. It is not cool to use a dog as a weapon, a status symbol or a burglar alarm/body guard. And, having 3 dogs amplifies any aggressive behavior and stirs the "pack" mentality. As a pit bull owner, a pet care professional and a daily witness to "stupid people tricks", I cannot overstress the need for proper training, providing assertive leadership and assuming responsibility for any pet that you choose to have in your "care". Another problem, what is a "vicious" breed? The list is breeds is growing. Sad if your pet happens to be on this list or a cross breed, or "mutt" that LOOKS like it might be on the list.
How many times a day do I see dogs leading the walks, out of controloff leash walks, cell phone talking owners who don't see the potential for danger by not being an active leader in the walk and enjoying their pet. Proactive and aware of dog's behavior.
I am saddened by the death of any innocent pet or person due to the neglect or ignorance of the owner. I hope that indeed this person is found, but, I am more concerned about the "kill the pit bull" mentality that this promotes. Please focus on the issue.
How many times a day do I see dogs leading the walks, out of controloff leash walks, cell phone talking owners who don't see the potential for danger by not being an active leader in the walk and enjoying their pet. Proactive and aware of dog's behavior.
I am saddened by the death of any innocent pet or person due to the neglect or ignorance of the owner. I hope that indeed this person is found, but, I am more concerned about the "kill the pit bull" mentality that this promotes. Please focus on the issue.
180
>> I hope that indeed this person is found
nice post, but you can't find an imaginary boogeyman.
nice post, but you can't find an imaginary boogeyman.
181
9-11 was an inside job, Kennedy was never shot, and people make up stories about pit bull attacks for political gain.
182
I'm so fucking sick of the fucktarded arguments around pit bulls. I've owned a few and lived with many. A) they are specifically bred to kill dogs, have been for more than 100 years. They have a drive to kill other dogs, just like a pointer has a drive to hunt or a lab to retrieve B) they are absolutely fucking relentless when that switch gets flipped C) they are incredible powerful for their size, and they can inflict massive damage very quickly.
A pit bull owner doesn't have to be a dog fighting white trash sociopathic moron for their dog to go off; all they have to be is lax. Sure some people can control some pit bulls all the time. But face it, most people are lax sometimes and always will be.
So pit bulls rightfully should be banned, as should the fila brasilera, presa canario, tosa, wolf dog, and probably the dogo argentino and maybe rotties.
yeah any dog can attack and bad owners blah blah blah, but w/ a pit an owner only need to be little bit lax, and when it happens the consequences are a lot worse than if a dobey or labrador loses it.
A pit bull owner doesn't have to be a dog fighting white trash sociopathic moron for their dog to go off; all they have to be is lax. Sure some people can control some pit bulls all the time. But face it, most people are lax sometimes and always will be.
So pit bulls rightfully should be banned, as should the fila brasilera, presa canario, tosa, wolf dog, and probably the dogo argentino and maybe rotties.
yeah any dog can attack and bad owners blah blah blah, but w/ a pit an owner only need to be little bit lax, and when it happens the consequences are a lot worse than if a dobey or labrador loses it.
183
^ i don't think you've owned any pits, mister "f you and your canine killing machines" ... it just sounds like you're claiming so, to give your uninformed, emotional rant some validity.
most pits are sweet, friendly, even tempered dogs that are non-aggressive to people and even to other dogs. they are highly loyal to their owners and families. its this loyalty that causes them to be extremely trainable to do any number of things. one of these things that they can be trained to do is to fight other dogs. their physical build and determination makes them formidable fighters, if they are so trained.
but if they're not trained to do so, or allowed to learn by association with dogs that have been trained to do so, then they're actually LESS likely to attack other dogs than many other common breeds.
most pits are sweet, friendly, even tempered dogs that are non-aggressive to people and even to other dogs. they are highly loyal to their owners and families. its this loyalty that causes them to be extremely trainable to do any number of things. one of these things that they can be trained to do is to fight other dogs. their physical build and determination makes them formidable fighters, if they are so trained.
but if they're not trained to do so, or allowed to learn by association with dogs that have been trained to do so, then they're actually LESS likely to attack other dogs than many other common breeds.
184
As someone who has worked with dogs for the last 10 years at shelters, dog daycares, dog parks and has experienced both nice and aggressive dogs, banning pitbulls is not the solution.Out of the millions of dogs that i have interacted with, trained, walked, cared for, I have never EVER had a problem with any pitbull EVER. PERIOD. That's not to say that they don't have the potential to be aggressive. of course they do. GUESS WHAT. every dog has the POTENTIAL to be aggressive. yes even your little maltese/yorkshire terrier/etc. has the potential to be a highly aggressive dog. I have seen aggression in almost every "gentle" breed including golden retrievers, labradors, and bulldogs. I currently manage a dog daycare and i can say for a fact that we have kicked out or rejected more golden retrievers than any other breed from our daycare. the reason these golden retrievers became aggressive is NOT because their golden retriever parents were aggressive and they come from a long line of aggressive golden retrievers. NO. it's because the owners, thinking they had a nice friendly breed did not spend enough time training and socializing their puppy. the result from not properly socializing ANY dog is fear or aggression. That's it. The sad news is most irresponsible future bad dog owners tend to get pitbulls. why is that? culture, the bad rap, easy access to puppies(pitbull mothers have large litters), they are a fairly cheap breed to get because you can always find one at the shelter. adoption fee at shelter $100-$200 bucks. Puppies from a respected breeder can go in the thousands. Also backyard breeders of pitbulls tend to sell them for cheaper and they do not care who they are selling them too(future owners of pitbulls that kill old ladies??? hello???) as long as they get their money. Registered dog breeders don't just breed dogs for the money, they love the breed, they want their puppies to go to good homes where they will have a long and happy life being a good dog. Stricter rules on breeding & selling pitbulls would help. ALOT.
banning one breed would only be fair if you banned all breeds. seriously not going to happen. I don't have the solution, but placing blame on the dog is not the answer.
I have a dog(not a pitbull, a lab mix) that is not very good with certain situations like kids, strangers, etc. and guess what? this dog doesn't run free in dog parks or in the streets. She is leashed at all times out in the world and gets to run free in my backyard. simple as that.
-rondo
More...
banning one breed would only be fair if you banned all breeds. seriously not going to happen. I don't have the solution, but placing blame on the dog is not the answer.
I have a dog(not a pitbull, a lab mix) that is not very good with certain situations like kids, strangers, etc. and guess what? this dog doesn't run free in dog parks or in the streets. She is leashed at all times out in the world and gets to run free in my backyard. simple as that.
-rondo
185
I doubt this event happened. Have you taken a dog to the Magnuson Dog Park water/ beach area? How would you get a seriously injured dog out of there, without it being seen by a few dozen people? There is a path of about a 1/3 mile that must be walked to enter and exit.
186
Maybe this happened, maybe it didn't. However, I was at Magnuson yesterday with my dog and did see a man with three Pits who were not neutered and who were fighting with and chasing other dogs. Luckily, none of the dogs were hurt (that I know of). It is scary to think you could just be going about your business getting your dog some exercise and socialization and end up with a maimed pet. I was going to adopt a pit bull, but my landlord said "NO!". I know dogs can be trained well or poorly, but unfortunately pit bulls and their dochebag owners have a bad reputation for a reason.
Remember Michael Vik? (i don't know if i spelled that correctly) Douchebag! with a capital D!!!
Remember Michael Vik? (i don't know if i spelled that correctly) Douchebag! with a capital D!!!
188
Yes, there is a report that it happened in the Edmonds dog park... but I don't believe any dogs were seriously injured, however the bhavior of the bald, tatooed young guy and his overweight girlfrind was unbelievable... laughing etc... although at least this time the guy did, a little late, get his dogs off the others...
189
the incident in Edmonds was not the same people. the description of the people and of the dogs and of the vehicle are different.
the incident at Magnuson is a Hoax
the incident at Magnuson is a Hoax
190
At 183
Family pit: Barney, female blue, small, smart, congenitally dog aggressive
Mine as a young man: Maverick, 95lbs tan red-nose from Alabama breeder, dumb as a bag of hammers, head shaped like 1/3 of a large pizza, congenitally pack-dominant. he was a goof but also
She was a automatic weapon and he was a bazooka. We didn't have any issues w/ Barney but my mom kept on her. I'm lucky Maverick never hurt any other dogs -- I wasn't mature enough to own a dog like that at the time.
And note that I don't think any relentless, powerful breed should be freely distributed, pits particularly as they have an "especially* strong drive to kill other dogs.
Family pit: Barney, female blue, small, smart, congenitally dog aggressive
Mine as a young man: Maverick, 95lbs tan red-nose from Alabama breeder, dumb as a bag of hammers, head shaped like 1/3 of a large pizza, congenitally pack-dominant. he was a goof but also
She was a automatic weapon and he was a bazooka. We didn't have any issues w/ Barney but my mom kept on her. I'm lucky Maverick never hurt any other dogs -- I wasn't mature enough to own a dog like that at the time.
And note that I don't think any relentless, powerful breed should be freely distributed, pits particularly as they have an "especially* strong drive to kill other dogs.
191
hey Joe Schmoe
I'm seeing unsubstantiated claims that the owner of the Boxer recently came forward and filed a police report, and that the owner of the Huskies did as well. Since you seem to know how to do your homework will you check this out? If you were wrong will you stand up and admit it? If you aren't then more power to you ...
I'm seeing unsubstantiated claims that the owner of the Boxer recently came forward and filed a police report, and that the owner of the Huskies did as well. Since you seem to know how to do your homework will you check this out? If you were wrong will you stand up and admit it? If you aren't then more power to you ...
192
I feel that the way in which people regard my pit bull is akin to the racial prejudice against black people. Like a black person is walking down the street, and the Police are like, “What are you doing?" and the black person is like "I'm walking down the street."
The fact is that because of poverty and racism in The US there is a greater percentage of black men in prison. They are just human beings like everyone else. Being black does not mean you are inherently a criminal.
Pitt Bulls have been used for dog fighting because they are small and yet powerful. Because they are small it is easy for the humans to control them while fighting. That they are muscular makes them able to do more damage. However, they are just dogs. Rottweilers and German Sheppards can be more fierce.
Just because my dog is a pit Bull does not inherently make her a criminal. The same as a black man is not inherently a criminal. PERIOD
Realize when you are thinking racist and prejudice thoughts it is out of your own ignorance. Be careful before you so quickly send anyone to a death sentence. It's despicable!
The fact is that because of poverty and racism in The US there is a greater percentage of black men in prison. They are just human beings like everyone else. Being black does not mean you are inherently a criminal.
Pitt Bulls have been used for dog fighting because they are small and yet powerful. Because they are small it is easy for the humans to control them while fighting. That they are muscular makes them able to do more damage. However, they are just dogs. Rottweilers and German Sheppards can be more fierce.
Just because my dog is a pit Bull does not inherently make her a criminal. The same as a black man is not inherently a criminal. PERIOD
Realize when you are thinking racist and prejudice thoughts it is out of your own ignorance. Be careful before you so quickly send anyone to a death sentence. It's despicable!
194
Families Against Breed Bans Press Release October 20, 2009
Posted October 21st, 2009 by
Categories: Uncategorized
Recently fliers were posted at Magnuson Off-Leash Dog Park alleging that two dogs were attacked by three pit bull type dogs on Friday, September 25th, 2009. One dog, a Boxer, was said to have been killed while the other dog was severely injured. Through speaking with direct sources, FABB has been able to determine the following:
No report of the incident has been filed with Seattle Animal Control.
No report has been filed with King County Animal Care and Control or with the Seattle Police Department. If anyone attempted to file a report with either of these two entities, they would have been directed to Seattle Animal Control.
No eyewitnesses have come forward who can verify that such an attack occurred or who witnessed an individual leaving the park with a fatally wounded or deceased dog.
Multiple individuals who were at the park at the time of the alleged attack reported that they did not see or hear anything out of the ordinary.
The owner allegedly brought the Boxer to a vet clinic immediately after the attack. Some clinics were specifically mentioned, yet, these clinics have no records of an injured or fatally wounded Boxer around September 25th.
No known body of the fatally wounded boxer.
As of October 19th, 2009, there have been no reports filed from an owner, witness, vet or police and no witnesses of an attack or a dead dog. Multiple people at the park during the supposed incident did not see anything; there have been no vet reports of a dead Boxer and no record of a carcass. A person carrying a dead or severely injured Boxer along with another injured dog out of the park would be difficult to miss. At this time, FABB has no choice but to believe that this has all been a cruel hoax.
FABB strongly encourages people to realize the damage caused by falsifying an incident or creating an uproar over an incident that has no proof to back it up. Now well behaved, leashed pit bulls are being attacked and men who remotely fit the description of the owner are being harassed by people who are afraid. If an attack had occurred, reports should have been filed immediately by the owner and anyone who witnessed it. When a dog is attacked by another dog, the filing of a report and the witness statements are crucial to the investigation. If a Boxer really was attacked and killed at Magnuson Off Leash Park, FABB respectfully requests that the owner, the vet or any witnesses file a formal report with Seattle Animal Control.
FABB would also like to remind dog owners that part of that ownership is being responsible. Every owner is responsible for his or her dog’s behavior and safety. This includes training and socialization, especially when utilizing dog parks. If any dog is acting inappropriately in a dog park, it should be removed from the park before something happens. Should the dog’s inappropraite behavior lead to a fight or attack on either a dog or a person before being removed, the victim(s) and witnesses are responsible for ensuring that a report is filed.
Families Against Breed Bans is a Seattle based group that recognizes the need for encouraging responsibility in dog owners rather than banning certain breeds. Any dog has the potential to bite and to cause damage and/or death. FABB knows that the only way to keep people and their family pets safe is to punish the irresponsible owners, regardless of the breed of dog that they own. For more information, please visit www.fabbseattle.org. FABB can be reached at fabbseattle@gmail.com.
More...
Posted October 21st, 2009 by
Categories: Uncategorized
Recently fliers were posted at Magnuson Off-Leash Dog Park alleging that two dogs were attacked by three pit bull type dogs on Friday, September 25th, 2009. One dog, a Boxer, was said to have been killed while the other dog was severely injured. Through speaking with direct sources, FABB has been able to determine the following:
No report of the incident has been filed with Seattle Animal Control.
No report has been filed with King County Animal Care and Control or with the Seattle Police Department. If anyone attempted to file a report with either of these two entities, they would have been directed to Seattle Animal Control.
No eyewitnesses have come forward who can verify that such an attack occurred or who witnessed an individual leaving the park with a fatally wounded or deceased dog.
Multiple individuals who were at the park at the time of the alleged attack reported that they did not see or hear anything out of the ordinary.
The owner allegedly brought the Boxer to a vet clinic immediately after the attack. Some clinics were specifically mentioned, yet, these clinics have no records of an injured or fatally wounded Boxer around September 25th.
No known body of the fatally wounded boxer.
As of October 19th, 2009, there have been no reports filed from an owner, witness, vet or police and no witnesses of an attack or a dead dog. Multiple people at the park during the supposed incident did not see anything; there have been no vet reports of a dead Boxer and no record of a carcass. A person carrying a dead or severely injured Boxer along with another injured dog out of the park would be difficult to miss. At this time, FABB has no choice but to believe that this has all been a cruel hoax.
FABB strongly encourages people to realize the damage caused by falsifying an incident or creating an uproar over an incident that has no proof to back it up. Now well behaved, leashed pit bulls are being attacked and men who remotely fit the description of the owner are being harassed by people who are afraid. If an attack had occurred, reports should have been filed immediately by the owner and anyone who witnessed it. When a dog is attacked by another dog, the filing of a report and the witness statements are crucial to the investigation. If a Boxer really was attacked and killed at Magnuson Off Leash Park, FABB respectfully requests that the owner, the vet or any witnesses file a formal report with Seattle Animal Control.
FABB would also like to remind dog owners that part of that ownership is being responsible. Every owner is responsible for his or her dog’s behavior and safety. This includes training and socialization, especially when utilizing dog parks. If any dog is acting inappropriately in a dog park, it should be removed from the park before something happens. Should the dog’s inappropraite behavior lead to a fight or attack on either a dog or a person before being removed, the victim(s) and witnesses are responsible for ensuring that a report is filed.
Families Against Breed Bans is a Seattle based group that recognizes the need for encouraging responsibility in dog owners rather than banning certain breeds. Any dog has the potential to bite and to cause damage and/or death. FABB knows that the only way to keep people and their family pets safe is to punish the irresponsible owners, regardless of the breed of dog that they own. For more information, please visit www.fabbseattle.org. FABB can be reached at fabbseattle@gmail.com.
195
Pit bulls are NOT more likely to bite/fight/attack, etc. than other breeds. I volunteered at the Seattle Animal Shelter for nearly a decade, and the one breed i had the most problems with behavior-wise with biting, etc. was black labs (including one incident where one bit me on the face). Also, the person there who dealt with the pit bulls the most and who also dealt with dog bite complaints being called in said that by far the most calls that come in have to do with labs - but people tend to realize that the bite was most likely play, and unintended before actually placing a complaint - but if it's a pit bull, no matter how slight the incident may be, people will file the complaint because of the breed. During my time there, after the face-biting incident, I worked almost exclusively with pit bulls because i trusted the breed's behavior more - and I used to be anti-pit bull before i started there. Additionally, if you think about the toy breeds - they tend to be the most aggressive of all. But because of their diminutive size, they don't really do any major harm to a large dog or grown human. My pit bull was actually attacked by someone's toy breed at a dog park one time, and did NOTHING in response, yet the stupid woman who owned the little dog came over and screamed at me and the owner of the other pitt my dog was playing with, telling us our dogs should not be allowed there.
Pit bulls are simply a strong breed - not an aggressive breed; they were actually bred to be completely submissive, loyal and affectionate toward humans, and were even frequently used as "Nanny Dogs" to watch over small children. And dog attacks NEVER happen unprovoked; if you are in a dog park - especially at the water's edge where all the dogs are funneled into a tight space, and the excitement level is guaranteed to be high, YOU need to educate yourself on canine body language, signals and general behavior. There is no such thing as an unprovoked dog attack - there is only people who are ignorant to a dog's body language and signals.
A dog of ANY breed may happen to be more aggressive or poorly behaved - we have no control over irresponsible owners bringing these dogs to the off-leash parks - so YOU as a dog owner need to be vigilant about paying attention to what's going on - not chatting with the other people there, not talking on your cellphone while your dog is off playing with other strange dogs - but be actively engaged in your dog's play, and pay attention to the other dogs. Otherwise, YOU have no business being there, either.
You people need to educate yourself in regards to the facts before declaring your uninformed ignorant OPINION as the truth.
More...
Pit bulls are simply a strong breed - not an aggressive breed; they were actually bred to be completely submissive, loyal and affectionate toward humans, and were even frequently used as "Nanny Dogs" to watch over small children. And dog attacks NEVER happen unprovoked; if you are in a dog park - especially at the water's edge where all the dogs are funneled into a tight space, and the excitement level is guaranteed to be high, YOU need to educate yourself on canine body language, signals and general behavior. There is no such thing as an unprovoked dog attack - there is only people who are ignorant to a dog's body language and signals.
A dog of ANY breed may happen to be more aggressive or poorly behaved - we have no control over irresponsible owners bringing these dogs to the off-leash parks - so YOU as a dog owner need to be vigilant about paying attention to what's going on - not chatting with the other people there, not talking on your cellphone while your dog is off playing with other strange dogs - but be actively engaged in your dog's play, and pay attention to the other dogs. Otherwise, YOU have no business being there, either.
You people need to educate yourself in regards to the facts before declaring your uninformed ignorant OPINION as the truth.
196
I didn't believe it was a HOAX but it turns out we KNOW the boxer that supposedly got killed and the boxer's owner. We actually saw this dog several times after the incident in perfect health. I am 100% sure that this story was not true. No idea why she would fabricate this - she seems like a really nice person actually. But she either has a mental health issue or she really dislikes pitbulls.
By the way, if we do try out a pit bull ban, what about all of the pit mixes? How much pit would your dog need to be banned? How does one tell? Wouldn't it generate a witch hunt for any mix that looks something like a pit? Wouldn't the resulting legal battles over the whole issue of a breed ban cost far more than tracking pit bulls?
By the way, if we do try out a pit bull ban, what about all of the pit mixes? How much pit would your dog need to be banned? How does one tell? Wouldn't it generate a witch hunt for any mix that looks something like a pit? Wouldn't the resulting legal battles over the whole issue of a breed ban cost far more than tracking pit bulls?
197
boxers are traditionally fighting dogs? what kind of special idiot are you? do your homework on breeds.
the general public is completely unknowledgable about dog breeds and I'm betting most of you can't pick the pitbull in this game http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/…
just goes to show you how unfair a pitbull ban would be.
a better enforced irresponsible dog owner law would be more effective, and fair.
the general public is completely unknowledgable about dog breeds and I'm betting most of you can't pick the pitbull in this game http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/…
just goes to show you how unfair a pitbull ban would be.
a better enforced irresponsible dog owner law would be more effective, and fair.
198
No complaints or medical bill so you don't believe there was an attack?
How many of you actually made a public records request? I bet none of you did.
How many of you know what happens if you do file a report? I'll bet you would be surprised to find out NOTHING generally happens.
A pit mix tried to attack my dog when she was on a leash and knocked me down from behind - $25,000 in medical bills and permanent damage to my one formerly good knee. I filed a report, the owner left me lying there. I filed a report, Animal Control did NOTHING. Any of you want to see my records - well you can't because there are federal laws against it, called HIPAA making them confidential. Want to see my animal control report, well then go scout it out by paying for each page. You can get ANY animal control report from ANY local government if you request it and pay for it.
Want to pay my co-payment, 20% of $25,000, do the math folks - thankfully I had insurance. Want to sue? All you who sit and claim no witnesses so there isn't an attack or injury? I have a witness, but they aren't sure if they want to get involved and there is the obvious evidence of injury - medical bills documenting the injury. Clearly some of these posters just don't understand the legal process.
You also don't get it - you can lose your house over some of these dogs, lose your homeowners insurance, wind up in bankruptcy court. Do I mind going to court - absolutely not, especially since I now need a total knee replacement due to some irresponsible dog owner.
How many of you actually made a public records request? I bet none of you did.
How many of you know what happens if you do file a report? I'll bet you would be surprised to find out NOTHING generally happens.
A pit mix tried to attack my dog when she was on a leash and knocked me down from behind - $25,000 in medical bills and permanent damage to my one formerly good knee. I filed a report, the owner left me lying there. I filed a report, Animal Control did NOTHING. Any of you want to see my records - well you can't because there are federal laws against it, called HIPAA making them confidential. Want to see my animal control report, well then go scout it out by paying for each page. You can get ANY animal control report from ANY local government if you request it and pay for it.
Want to pay my co-payment, 20% of $25,000, do the math folks - thankfully I had insurance. Want to sue? All you who sit and claim no witnesses so there isn't an attack or injury? I have a witness, but they aren't sure if they want to get involved and there is the obvious evidence of injury - medical bills documenting the injury. Clearly some of these posters just don't understand the legal process.
You also don't get it - you can lose your house over some of these dogs, lose your homeowners insurance, wind up in bankruptcy court. Do I mind going to court - absolutely not, especially since I now need a total knee replacement due to some irresponsible dog owner.
199
Pitbulls are loving creatures if they are trained correctly. if they are trained to fight. that is a different story. then again best friends in utah transformed the former fighting dogs into loving pets. so don't judge the breed just by the media. or these signs. IF RAISED CORRECTLY, they are loving pets. and if they are socialized young as pups with other dogs they won't fight. they aren't HUMAN aggressive. pups are puppies by the way if u didn't know that.
200
What most of you fail to realize is how many different breeds of dogs fall under the breed category of pit bull. Of course there is going to be an amazing number of the dogs and an amazing number of incidents reported when the media lumps most large dogs who cause a scene as a pit bull. Any dog can be aggressive toward another dog or person and when you take into account that the media loves to lump them all as pit bulls, even the mixes, you can not expect accurate data. How in the world can you say a mixed breed who attacks is attacking because it is a pit bull when the pit bull is not the only dog who attacks other dogs?
Another thing to ponder, most pits were not bred to fight. It is only a small segment of the pit bull population who were bred to fight and who have actually participated in dog fights. The majority of pit bulls in the world today go their whole lives without incident, as they did a century ago when they were farm dogs and nanny dogs.
I wouldn't take a million dollars for my lovable APBT. And I too would shoot any dog or any person that tried to mess with her. She's never had a problem with another dog and yet there have been a couple of dogs at the day care she frequents who have a problem with her and some of her smaller friends. Thanks to intelligent people at her day care those pesky labs are no longer welcomed there. The truth is, bad owners make bad dogs. All other excuses are pure ignorance.
People who frequent off leash dog parks are asking for trouble. If you don't know what dogs are there or what dogs will be there, then you are setting your dog up for anything to happen to them. I don't take my dogs to any off leash dog park, or any dog park in general. Too many irresponsible owners of all breeds have destroyed the idea of off leash dog parks for a lot of people. Unless you can control the environment your dog is in, you are doing your dog a disservice. There are more ways to socialize your dog. Get it involved in obedience training or agility. My girl does both and she is around her dog friends often participating in events connected with both. I trust her and her dog friends because the owners of the other dogs are like me, responsible owners who care about the welfare of their dogs and recognize the only safe option for socialization is a controlled environment with other responsible dog owners.
More...
Another thing to ponder, most pits were not bred to fight. It is only a small segment of the pit bull population who were bred to fight and who have actually participated in dog fights. The majority of pit bulls in the world today go their whole lives without incident, as they did a century ago when they were farm dogs and nanny dogs.
I wouldn't take a million dollars for my lovable APBT. And I too would shoot any dog or any person that tried to mess with her. She's never had a problem with another dog and yet there have been a couple of dogs at the day care she frequents who have a problem with her and some of her smaller friends. Thanks to intelligent people at her day care those pesky labs are no longer welcomed there. The truth is, bad owners make bad dogs. All other excuses are pure ignorance.
People who frequent off leash dog parks are asking for trouble. If you don't know what dogs are there or what dogs will be there, then you are setting your dog up for anything to happen to them. I don't take my dogs to any off leash dog park, or any dog park in general. Too many irresponsible owners of all breeds have destroyed the idea of off leash dog parks for a lot of people. Unless you can control the environment your dog is in, you are doing your dog a disservice. There are more ways to socialize your dog. Get it involved in obedience training or agility. My girl does both and she is around her dog friends often participating in events connected with both. I trust her and her dog friends because the owners of the other dogs are like me, responsible owners who care about the welfare of their dogs and recognize the only safe option for socialization is a controlled environment with other responsible dog owners.
201
Pit Bulls are mostly considered dangerous, not because they are more likely to attack, but more because they tend to be capable of causing more damage when they do attack. The argument that some other breeds are just as dangerous may be a good reason to consider banning other breeds as well. It's not generally how likely an animal is to attack that makes it worthy of being a pet, but rather how likely is the animal to kill you if it attacks.
I've heard a lot about wild breeds vs. domesticated breeds, but in my experience, the main difference is whether or not the breed is capable of killing us. I've had lots of cats around me all my life. When cats get moody, sometimes they will attack your hand for no apparent reason. It is not much of a problem since you are only likely to end up with a few scratches. If you are raising a Bengal Tiger, on the other hand, that same moodiness would have killed you. That is the main reason why most people don't have Lions, Tigers, and Bears as house pets. Pit bulls have shown themselves to be pretty strong fighters, capable of taking on even adults and causing severe harm to them, even killing them at times. That is the reason they consider banning pit bulls, in the same way that you need special facilities to raise Tigers and Bears.
I've heard a lot about wild breeds vs. domesticated breeds, but in my experience, the main difference is whether or not the breed is capable of killing us. I've had lots of cats around me all my life. When cats get moody, sometimes they will attack your hand for no apparent reason. It is not much of a problem since you are only likely to end up with a few scratches. If you are raising a Bengal Tiger, on the other hand, that same moodiness would have killed you. That is the main reason why most people don't have Lions, Tigers, and Bears as house pets. Pit bulls have shown themselves to be pretty strong fighters, capable of taking on even adults and causing severe harm to them, even killing them at times. That is the reason they consider banning pit bulls, in the same way that you need special facilities to raise Tigers and Bears.
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