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News & ArtsMonday, October 5, 2009
City Streetcar!
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Capitol Hill is getting one and the city is paying for it. The city's second street car line is going to start at Union Station and run through first Hill before craping out at the Capitol Hill light rail station. But it's kinda hard to tell from this post at CHS if Tom Rasmussen is fer it or agin' it.
Councilmember Tom Rasmussen voiced his opposition to the cost of streetcars but voted for the bill. Before voting, Rasmussen called the project "another camel under the tent" toward completing a complete streetcar system in the city.
Wha-huh, Tom? Is completing a complete streetcar system a good thing or bad thing or a camel? More importantly: we can't call the thing "SLUT." That name is taken, of course, and it's also site-specific. So what are we going to call this thing?
1
So let me get this straight.
First, they build a streetcar for Capitol Hill - kind of like the route if it's a municipal one, since ST is paying for a line along 12th.
But they're trying to slip thru a Billionaires' Tunnel today with no public vote, no required federal EIS, and only one-third funding even POTENTIALLY identified?
Um, no. Wait until we elect our new Mayor and City Council.
First, they build a streetcar for Capitol Hill - kind of like the route if it's a municipal one, since ST is paying for a line along 12th.
But they're trying to slip thru a Billionaires' Tunnel today with no public vote, no required federal EIS, and only one-third funding even POTENTIALLY identified?
Um, no. Wait until we elect our new Mayor and City Council.
3
I'm torn between Not the SLUT and SLUT II, the Legend of Curly's Gold. Or SLUT 2, SLUT Harder. Bride of SLUT. Something like that.
The Capitol Hill SLUT is geographically descriptive, but boring? Boring. The Gay SLUT captures more of the neighborhood charm.
The one after this should be SLUT 3: Tokyo Drift.
The Capitol Hill SLUT is geographically descriptive, but boring? Boring. The Gay SLUT captures more of the neighborhood charm.
The one after this should be SLUT 3: Tokyo Drift.
10
When trying to name this, be sure to include some reference to the International District (where the route starts) in the acronym. If you don't, you're a racist.
11
Or if one of the alternate routes is chosen, maybe the Broadway-Madison-Boren-Jackson streetcar, BM-BJs.
Eww. Maybe not.
Eww. Maybe not.
12
So have the problems with fixed rail streetcars been solved since we replaced theme with electric trolley buses in the early 40s? Does this mean that electric trolley buses won't be able to use roads that the short but expensive streetcar is on?
13
Nice! It gets you from the light rail station in the ID to the light rail station on Broadway!
Oh wait - SO DOES LIGHT RAIL.
Oh wait - SO DOES LIGHT RAIL.
19
Yeah, who needs libraries that are open six or seven days a week (or a monorail that run above traffic) when you can have a streetcar that'll tie up traffic and runs in an area that's mostly walkable already? I'm glad our priorities are in order.
(I know that projects like these create jobs, but I have some friends who work for the library who would like to keep their jobs, too.)
(I know that projects like these create jobs, but I have some friends who work for the library who would like to keep their jobs, too.)
23
@13, the point of the streetcar is to replace the First Hill station we were supposed to get on the light rail--instead of seeing the streetcar as redundant, you could think of it as a 405 to the light rail's 5, with the CD playing Bellevue.
24
As much as a love all the CUNT and BJ naming, etc. @12's post is the real winner here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram#Disadv…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram#Disadv…
27
"craping"? craPPing.
and the existing streetcar should be extended up eastlake to the U District 1st.
and the existing streetcar should be extended up eastlake to the U District 1st.
28
"Um... so, Private," said the lieutenant, squaring his shoulders and zipping his fatigues, "is that the way the men usually do it?"
"N-no, sir, they usually ride the CAMEL into town."
"N-no, sir, they usually ride the CAMEL into town."
29
This is great! Congratulations, Seattle. In SF we have streetcars (MUNI) for the city and light rail (BART) for the commuters out to the 'burbs. It's a wonderful system. Don't let the entitled drivers rain (or park their fat asses) on your parade.
Looks like you're getting there in Seattle. Mazltov!
Looks like you're getting there in Seattle. Mazltov!
31
@12, 24, you wouldn't say that if you'd experienced a working tram system. Bern, Basel, and Zurich, just to name three Swiss cities (two of them really hilly), have amazing networks of a dozen or more trams that coexist with busses and connect to intercity rail stations in a way that, for a tourist or a biker or walker, is sort of dreamy.
33
As someone who always has to take a second bus from whatever neighborhood I'm living in to get to whichever hospital I'm working at on Pill Hill this is great news! One hopes that some of my colleagues will be encouraged to take more public transit with this new option as well.
Also, pretty sure 'crapping' has two p's - just sayin'
Also, pretty sure 'crapping' has two p's - just sayin'
34
31, we already have an existing network of electric trolleybusses that accomplish the same thing cheaper. Telling me something is amazing in another city doesn't tell me why it is better than what we have here now. Or worth the vastly higher cost of laying/maintainging all those rails and extra immobile infrastructure.
I'm willing to look at evidence, but I'd like to see how it's worth the cost. Right now it just seems to be a somewhat more attractive riding experience, while greatly increasing the cost--(not the fares though). I'd rather expand our electric bus service, in distance and frequency. For someone like me, living on Seattle's south border, each extra cost item like this removes the chances of more than once an hour bus service ever being implemented.
If the S. Lake Union line was somehow showing great success, I'd be more in favor of expanding this thing.
PS, I'm a transit supporter, I believe multimode is the way to go. I like light rail, volunteered a lot with the monorail effort, take the bus when I can, but I just don't get the streetcar fascination. Yet.
I'm willing to look at evidence, but I'd like to see how it's worth the cost. Right now it just seems to be a somewhat more attractive riding experience, while greatly increasing the cost--(not the fares though). I'd rather expand our electric bus service, in distance and frequency. For someone like me, living on Seattle's south border, each extra cost item like this removes the chances of more than once an hour bus service ever being implemented.
If the S. Lake Union line was somehow showing great success, I'd be more in favor of expanding this thing.
PS, I'm a transit supporter, I believe multimode is the way to go. I like light rail, volunteered a lot with the monorail effort, take the bus when I can, but I just don't get the streetcar fascination. Yet.
35
Oh and thanks for that link to the wikipedia tram article-- It was fascinating. Including the Advantages section. If we could get some of those cargo trams or the cool system without overhead wires, now that I could get behind. Yes, I am a transit geek.
38
Given that Sound Transit is going to pay $120 million for construction, then $5.2 million per year for operation, isn't it misleading to write that "city is paying for it"?
41
The original plan was to have it go up and down 12th ... so:
T.W.A.T (TWelfth Avenue Trolley)
You can even ride it. Lets hope we also get a Capitolhill UNiversity Trolley, or maybe a GReenlake UNiversity trolley, which I guess you cant ride but it makes good riding noises?
T.W.A.T (TWelfth Avenue Trolley)
You can even ride it. Lets hope we also get a Capitolhill UNiversity Trolley, or maybe a GReenlake UNiversity trolley, which I guess you cant ride but it makes good riding noises?
42
And fuck, if I could figure out the other T we could even get to ride the BUtT (Ballard University Trolley).
The U district makes theses easy.
The U district makes theses easy.
44
Perhaps all you dears who are griping about paying for this, or are using your Big Seattle Brains to talk how foolish it is, missed the vote? 57.08% of the voters in the ST voting area approved this - 60.% in king county itself - and the streetcar was specifically part of the deal.
But really, the "the streetcar just goes from one light rail station to another light rail station!" argument is really quite silly, and you should reconsider it, lest people think you are foolish. The only way that argument would make sense is if it were a non-stop express between the two stations. The idea behind the streetcar is that the streetcar will serve as a feeder to the main link system.
But really, the "the streetcar just goes from one light rail station to another light rail station!" argument is really quite silly, and you should reconsider it, lest people think you are foolish. The only way that argument would make sense is if it were a non-stop express between the two stations. The idea behind the streetcar is that the streetcar will serve as a feeder to the main link system.
45
It'd be an alternative to a light rail trip between Capitol Hill and the Int'l District, right? So...
Alternate Chinatown-International District TRIP.
Alternate Chinatown-International District TRIP.
47
Sweet, finally we are getting some real "big city" transportation options! Most of the people I know, including myself, never have even rode the SLUT simply because it services such a select area. Something on the Hill, however, my friends, co-workers and family would use all the time.
48
Love all the name suggestions, but I'm mostly just psyched we're getting a streetcar in my neighborhood! It's starting to feel like a real city here.
49
@ 48, No kidding, its about time! Could Broadway possibly be the Pacific NW's own Castro?
(I doubt it, but its a nice thought!)
(I doubt it, but its a nice thought!)
50
Step back for a second, and consider: Ain't this a great town, where we have a healthy round of laughs in trying to come up with the lewdest acronym for the new streetcar line to match the existing line, the aptly-named SLUT?
God, I love Seattle.
(Props to @2 and @41.)
God, I love Seattle.
(Props to @2 and @41.)
53
@12- None of those problems ever actually outweighed the advantages. Tearing out the streetcar infrastructure of America's cities was a huge mistake.
54
Dwight, why the fixation on rails in pavement? We still have, along with six other cities, our electric trolleybuses.
"Tearing out the horse drawn streetcar infrastructure of America's cities was a huge mistake."
I'm not arguing that we should make a U Turn on a voter approved streetcar. I just still don't get what it's big advantage is going to be. I hope that when it is built it will be a lot more successful than the SLUT, because it is a much better route.
"Tearing out the horse drawn streetcar infrastructure of America's cities was a huge mistake."
I'm not arguing that we should make a U Turn on a voter approved streetcar. I just still don't get what it's big advantage is going to be. I hope that when it is built it will be a lot more successful than the SLUT, because it is a much better route.
56
I grew up riding SCAT, or St. Charles (Mo.) Area Transit. Midwesterners are truly oblivious. Look it up. They still call it that.
58
Alternative Streetcar: Severely Hilly Option for Lightrail, Electric
@32 mind your history: while aspiring to be the NYC of the west coast for over a century (one ex among dozens:note the statue of liberty on Alki and LunaPark (the original version with roller coaster and pimps) purposeful similarity to Coney Island), and outshine SF (see Klondike gold rush), Seattle already had a robust streetcar system (note the QA 'counterbalance' and what that machinery hidden underground used to do) for many many years, short-sightedly sold for scrap around the end of the Great Depression.
As 44 says: ST, via voter approval, has a) already GOT the money NOW to build this sucker and b) mandated by law to now build a streetcar, not a trolleybus. Democracy worked, for better or worse.
Those who don't understand why First Hill / The ID / Profanity Hill / SouthAnchor of CapHill might need mass transit links to Light Rail? look up - those tall buildings up there = density.
39, 40, 41 & 2 - brava!
Alternative Streetcar: Severely Hilly Option for Lightrail, Electric
@32 mind your history: while aspiring to be the NYC of the west coast for over a century (one ex among dozens:note the statue of liberty on Alki and LunaPark (the original version with roller coaster and pimps) purposeful similarity to Coney Island), and outshine SF (see Klondike gold rush), Seattle already had a robust streetcar system (note the QA 'counterbalance' and what that machinery hidden underground used to do) for many many years, short-sightedly sold for scrap around the end of the Great Depression.
As 44 says: ST, via voter approval, has a) already GOT the money NOW to build this sucker and b) mandated by law to now build a streetcar, not a trolleybus. Democracy worked, for better or worse.
Those who don't understand why First Hill / The ID / Profanity Hill / SouthAnchor of CapHill might need mass transit links to Light Rail? look up - those tall buildings up there = density.
39, 40, 41 & 2 - brava!
Alternative Streetcar: Severely Hilly Option for Lightrail, Electric
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