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News & ArtsSunday, October 4, 2009
Sports Meanwhile in Baseball
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle on Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:54 PM
We did not lose. Jubilation ensues. The apartment window's open, and drivers have been honking their horns and shouting "Hoooo!" for a very long time now.
1
Two Mariner legends and not a championship between them. Kind of like the Cubs, without the popularity. Oh well, bring back Jr and his .220 average and 17 homers. Winning doesn't matter in Seattle, just feeling nostalgic for teams that never won anything does.
3
The jubilation had a lot of facets for Mariners fans.
After suffering through the last few years of embarrassingly horrible management, the Ms got a GM who could actually recognize and go after young talent, and the first Asian-American manager in the major leagues.
Those two built a new team around the true gems on the roster like Felix Hernandez and the incomparable Ichiro, and did something that's only been done a dozen times in baseball's history -- they brought the team back from a 100-loss season to 85 wins.
Their win today left them only one game shy of a tie with Texas for second place in the AL West, which even though it's hardly a pennant or a world series trophy is pretty darn good for a team that was dead last in the American League and second worst in baseball overall just a year ago.
The celebration was mostly over that comeback but also over Felix Hernandez pitching himself into contention for a Cy Young award today with a 19th win and great ERA on the season, while Ichiro also set another record with his 9th consecutive season of 200 hits.
It may also have been the last game for Ken Griffey Jr., who I saw hit his 630th career home run last night and who will be the first player to go into the Hall of Fame in a Ms uniform, and probably also for Adrian Beltre, who had some amazing Gold Glove level plays in just the first few innings of today's game. Hopefully it wasn't also Felix' last game here... :(
After suffering through the last few years of embarrassingly horrible management, the Ms got a GM who could actually recognize and go after young talent, and the first Asian-American manager in the major leagues.
Those two built a new team around the true gems on the roster like Felix Hernandez and the incomparable Ichiro, and did something that's only been done a dozen times in baseball's history -- they brought the team back from a 100-loss season to 85 wins.
Their win today left them only one game shy of a tie with Texas for second place in the AL West, which even though it's hardly a pennant or a world series trophy is pretty darn good for a team that was dead last in the American League and second worst in baseball overall just a year ago.
The celebration was mostly over that comeback but also over Felix Hernandez pitching himself into contention for a Cy Young award today with a 19th win and great ERA on the season, while Ichiro also set another record with his 9th consecutive season of 200 hits.
It may also have been the last game for Ken Griffey Jr., who I saw hit his 630th career home run last night and who will be the first player to go into the Hall of Fame in a Ms uniform, and probably also for Adrian Beltre, who had some amazing Gold Glove level plays in just the first few innings of today's game. Hopefully it wasn't also Felix' last game here... :(
4
If Felix wins the Cy, which he doesn't deserve, I hope he turns around and gives it to Franklin Gutierrez, who earned it for him along with the rest of the defense. Felix is a great pitcher, and had a great year, but he wouldn't have an ERA under two-fifty if it wasn't for one of the best defensive teams in the history of baseball. Awesome glove work, guys.
Griffey's going to be back for a last trip around the league, a la Edgar. That's my guess. He's not earning his spot on the team, unfortunately.
Griffey's going to be back for a last trip around the league, a la Edgar. That's my guess. He's not earning his spot on the team, unfortunately.
5
You all have got yourself a hell of a pitcher in Hernandez, but I'd bet on the AL Cy Young going to Zach Greinke of the Royals. More strike outs, considerably lower ERA. OK, he only won 16 compared to your boy's 19, but come on, Greinke plays for the Royals. I don't have the stats to hand but I bet the Royals offence produces at least one fewer runs per game than the Mariners. Winning 16 for the Royals is heroic.
6
Oops. Appears I was wrong about run production.
The Royals are horrible, but there _is_ one team in the AL with fewer runs per game than the Royals...
The Royals are horrible, but there _is_ one team in the AL with fewer runs per game than the Royals...
7
You're wrong about that, but you're not wrong about Greinke. He deserves the award, full stop. He's got the Royals defense playing behind him.
10
Yeah, that's the decisive point.
This year's postseason in principle could be a replay of 2007. Once again the team of my childhood (Boston) and the team of my rapidly approaching senility (Colorado) are both in the playoffs. In 2007 both teams made it all the way to the World Series, a case study in Be Careful What You Wish For, as I took very little joy from the watching the Series. I was too conflicted.
This year's postseason in principle could be a replay of 2007. Once again the team of my childhood (Boston) and the team of my rapidly approaching senility (Colorado) are both in the playoffs. In 2007 both teams made it all the way to the World Series, a case study in Be Careful What You Wish For, as I took very little joy from the watching the Series. I was too conflicted.
12
Fnarf, Greinke had an undeniably great year and even if I can't argue that he earned the award, I don't know how you can say that if Felix wins the Cy Young award this year that he "doesn't deserve" it.
Speaking of Cy Young awards, I just read that ex Mariner - future Hall of Famer Randy Johnson may have pitched in his last game today, too. It would be interesting if he and Junior ended their baseball careers on the same day.
The only two Mariners games I managed to get to this year featured Randy Johnson's last game pitched in Safeco, and Junior's last home run of his career...
Speaking of Cy Young awards, I just read that ex Mariner - future Hall of Famer Randy Johnson may have pitched in his last game today, too. It would be interesting if he and Junior ended their baseball careers on the same day.
The only two Mariners games I managed to get to this year featured Randy Johnson's last game pitched in Safeco, and Junior's last home run of his career...
13
I mean that he's nowhere near the best pitcher in the league, which is what the award is for. Greinke, Fielding-Independent ERA, 2.33; Hernandez, FIP 3.09, in a similar number of innings.
Jubilation!
Jubilation!
14
@ 12, ERA, WHIP, and K's are all more important than wins; a pitcher can't control the run support he gets.
15
@13, 14 -- the Cy Young award is voted on by a small group of baseball writers; it's not like the winner is spat out by a supercomputer running terabytes of statistical analysis. I'm pretty sure that an argument could conceivably be made for either pitcher deserving recognition by a group of baseball writers. They seem to historically like pitchers with less losses on their record, though who knows? They could pick Sabathia because they liked how he looked in the pinstripes this year, not to mention that he's the one actually going into postseason play and who knows yet how he'll do there (the Cy Young isn't given out until after the WS)...?
16
I hope Beltre comes back (at a reduced rate). The man's glove saved more than a few games this season. Pitching-and-defense is the only way these guys will make the playoffs next year.
17
Peter, those stats are usually what the writers look at, especially in a year when no one ran away with the wins. While all the stats (except K's) are reliant on the team as much as the pitcher, wins are most dependent on the team producing runs. In the AL especially, where the pitcher can't even hope to contribute.
Remember, every now and then they give this award to closers. That should tell you something about the importance of wins.
Remember, every now and then they give this award to closers. That should tell you something about the importance of wins.
18
Oh, BTW, the award is strictly for regular season performance. There are many winners who never made the post season and played for terrible teams (think Randy Johnson's first award).
19
@15 makes a sadly important point. Writers decide. That means its going to Sabathia. Less deserving than Greinke and Hernandez by a longshot.
20
That's true. Sabathia shouldn't even be in the conversation, though I guess he gets some points for pitching in front of Derek "Past A Diving" Jeter. By Win Probability, the answer is Greinke, Verlander, Felix, Edwin Jackson, Scott Feldman, and Halladay before Sabathia. Carpenter, Lincecum, and Jurrjens in the NL.
21
@4: "...one of the best defensive teams in the history of baseball."
Hyperbole, thy name is Fnarf. Beltre, Guttierrez and Ichrio, of course. The rest? Nothing special.
Hyperbole, thy name is Fnarf. Beltre, Guttierrez and Ichrio, of course. The rest? Nothing special.
22
@4
the Cy is going to the skinny dude in san francisco. the rest is conversation.
i dont know about yall, but i think that after stinking up the place last year, this year's club was purdy damn good. and i was glad to see the wee lad tuiasosopo get some play time, after all, he gave up riches and turned his back on the nfl to play baseball.
good year M's.
Go Phillies!
the Cy is going to the skinny dude in san francisco. the rest is conversation.
i dont know about yall, but i think that after stinking up the place last year, this year's club was purdy damn good. and i was glad to see the wee lad tuiasosopo get some play time, after all, he gave up riches and turned his back on the nfl to play baseball.
good year M's.
Go Phillies!
23
@22 you realize each league awards a Cy Young, right? Besides, Carpenter deserves it more than "the skinny dude". Pains me to say that considering how much I hate the Cards.
24
my bad. never post before cafe.
u gotta be kidding me? carpenter over former husky Lincecum ?
Nope. skinny dude has it in the bag. without him the giants are nobodies.
u gotta be kidding me? carpenter over former husky Lincecum ?
Nope. skinny dude has it in the bag. without him the giants are nobodies.
25
I wouldn't talk up the Mariners' defense too much, Fnarf. For most the year we had Betancourt at short and Lopez on second, both horrible fielders. Plus Beltre was out for ages.
Agreed, though, that it should be Greinke. Stats don't lie.
Agreed, though, that it should be Greinke. Stats don't lie.
26
@18, I know that the award is supposed to be based on regular season performance, but I was just speculating that a great postseason could count as extra credit with the writers...
27
also, for what it's worth:
"I told Andy (Pettitte) the other day, if I had a vote, I would vote for (Felix) Hernandez," Sabathia said of the Mariners' ace, who limited the Yanks to one earned run in a complete-game victory last week. "Just watching him pitch the other day in Seattle against us ... against this lineup to throw a complete game and get a win. That's the best pitcher in the league to me."
"I told Andy (Pettitte) the other day, if I had a vote, I would vote for (Felix) Hernandez," Sabathia said of the Mariners' ace, who limited the Yanks to one earned run in a complete-game victory last week. "Just watching him pitch the other day in Seattle against us ... against this lineup to throw a complete game and get a win. That's the best pitcher in the league to me."
28
@26: I think I read somewhere (or maybe I'm making it up) that the voting actually happens just after the regular season ends, and before the playoffs begin. Then they don't announce the results until after the world series. As I understood it, the timing was to do the voting early enough that the writers can't be unduly influenced by a 3-0, 1.87 postseason record, and make the announcement late enough so that the awards can serve to effectively extend interest in MLB beyond the end of the World Series.
30
@21 and 25: based on the stats that really count (and that more accurately measure defense), Fnarf is totally correct. Several of the statheads have written about this recently. This year's Ms defense was outstanding.
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