Friday, October 2, 2009
Crime / Life Up is Down, Black is White, and Hamburgers Eat People
Posted by David Schmader on Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:44 PM
That is how I feel, thanks to that goddamned Polanski petition, which has turned me into the type of person who believes those freaks in Hollywood are completely out of touch with my moral values.
How did this happen???
Oh yeah: A talented filmmaker drugged and raped a 13-year-old. To those who say that it wasn't "rape rape": I can only imagine you're referring to some perceived lack of violence or struggle but please direct your attention to the drugging that preceded the anal raping of the 13-year-old. Thank you.
Also, bless you, Chris Rock:
"People are defending Roman Polanski because he made some good movies? Are you kidding me?" Rock said on Thursday's Jay Leno Show. "He made good movies 30 years ago, Jay! Even Johnnie Cochran didn't have the nerve to go, 'Well, did you see O.J. play against New England?'"
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1
I just don't understand how these people excuse his behavior. And I don't believe he should escape the consequences of his behavior just because he has a lot of rich, self important friends.
2
I especially love the film geeks who argue that a film festival is some kind of special place whose attendees are owed diplomatic immunity or something.
Everybody feels for their own. Witness the number of linux geeks who refused to believe Hans Reiser (who developed the RFS file system for linux) guilty, some even after he was convicted and led the police to the body in exchange for a reduced sentence.
And everybody believes their profession is deserving of some kind of special status. Witness the number of journalists who believe that they shouldn't have to reveal their sources under supoena like the rest of us.
Everybody feels for their own. Witness the number of linux geeks who refused to believe Hans Reiser (who developed the RFS file system for linux) guilty, some even after he was convicted and led the police to the body in exchange for a reduced sentence.
And everybody believes their profession is deserving of some kind of special status. Witness the number of journalists who believe that they shouldn't have to reveal their sources under supoena like the rest of us.
3
It's not like he intentionally took her to a secluded mansion, gave her hard liquor and Quaaludes and then while she protested, raped her orally, vaginally, and then because (duh) she wasn't on the pill, anally.
Oh, wait.
It was.
I've met Woody and Mr. Polanski in person. Hang him high.
Oh, wait.
It was.
I've met Woody and Mr. Polanski in person. Hang him high.
5
How many names on that list are from Hollywood? Like 5 or 8 of them, right? And the rest are from France and Italy and Spain. Seems like if you're going to get mad at anyone you should get mad at Europeans.
6
Every new excuse I hear for Polanski sounds more pathetic than the last. He needs to step up--his career is over no matter what.
7
ah, "rape rape", you slippery beast. you love to peek out at us from behind bushes and in parking lots, but then you go hiding behind famous film directors, twiddling your thumbs and whistling innocently.
I have news for a lot of folks : men who rape people aren't some other species you have never come into contact with, they are people you already know and who do some other stuff you might not be opposed to, like work with you or serve you good cosmos or make hit movies and pop songs. Pretending that the only rapists are mask-wearing loonies out for sadistic fun ignores the actual facts of rape and makes it harder to make people knock it the fuck off.
I have news for a lot of folks : men who rape people aren't some other species you have never come into contact with, they are people you already know and who do some other stuff you might not be opposed to, like work with you or serve you good cosmos or make hit movies and pop songs. Pretending that the only rapists are mask-wearing loonies out for sadistic fun ignores the actual facts of rape and makes it harder to make people knock it the fuck off.
8
@2: "Everybody feels for their own. ... And everybody believes their profession is deserving of some kind of special status".
True.
True.
9
I think the age of the victim leaves those who aren't aware of the facts of the case to assume there's room for good faith questioning of age-of-consent dogma. In the absence of the drugging (and of the poor girl begging Polanski not to do what he did), I would agree. So setting the record straight as to what happened is probably the greatest public service anyone could offer.
As for the petition . . . meh. Who cares? Again, some probably think the sole crime was sex with a teenage girl (not exactly unheard of); some others have made public comment that leads me to believe that they're under the (mistaken) impression that this arrest has anything to do with the content of his films.
What I wonder is this--Why is no one (so far as I've heard) talking about this girl's mother? Did she or did she not offer this child up on a platter as an offering to the Hollywood gods? In my mind, she should suffer a fate worse than Polanski's.
As for the petition . . . meh. Who cares? Again, some probably think the sole crime was sex with a teenage girl (not exactly unheard of); some others have made public comment that leads me to believe that they're under the (mistaken) impression that this arrest has anything to do with the content of his films.
What I wonder is this--Why is no one (so far as I've heard) talking about this girl's mother? Did she or did she not offer this child up on a platter as an offering to the Hollywood gods? In my mind, she should suffer a fate worse than Polanski's.
11
@9: Er, if you were aware of the facts of the case, you'd know that she talked to her mother on the phone while she was there, and told her everything was okay. This was just before things started getting weird.
And by the way, you're an asshole if you think the mother is more to blame than the guy who raped her.
And by the way, you're an asshole if you think the mother is more to blame than the guy who raped her.
13
Why so hostile, Irena?
Accounts have varied with regards to what the mother did or didn't do, but most of what's out there in the literature points (in my view) to her knowing exactly what she was getting her daughter into. The degree to which that's true certainly mitigates her relative culpability in relation to Polanski's, but I don't think there's any doubt that she was culpable. The more she understood about what was happening, what was likely to happen, the more culpable she was. Remember, Polanski's (laughable, not because it was implausible, but because it mitigates his own responsibility not a whit) assertion was not that he didn't commit the act(s) with the girl, but that the act(s) had already been "arranged" with the child's mother. If any arrangement occurred to enough of a degree that his belief on the matter was plausible, then the woman was engaged in some fairly disturbing behavior. As I said, though, I don't suggest that her role in this mitigates Polanski's at all (as I say in another thread, I've no objection to seeing Polanski do time).
Sorry to offend.
I thought Rock's statement was funny, too. I, for one, certainly wouldn't have signed the petition in question.
Accounts have varied with regards to what the mother did or didn't do, but most of what's out there in the literature points (in my view) to her knowing exactly what she was getting her daughter into. The degree to which that's true certainly mitigates her relative culpability in relation to Polanski's, but I don't think there's any doubt that she was culpable. The more she understood about what was happening, what was likely to happen, the more culpable she was. Remember, Polanski's (laughable, not because it was implausible, but because it mitigates his own responsibility not a whit) assertion was not that he didn't commit the act(s) with the girl, but that the act(s) had already been "arranged" with the child's mother. If any arrangement occurred to enough of a degree that his belief on the matter was plausible, then the woman was engaged in some fairly disturbing behavior. As I said, though, I don't suggest that her role in this mitigates Polanski's at all (as I say in another thread, I've no objection to seeing Polanski do time).
Sorry to offend.
I thought Rock's statement was funny, too. I, for one, certainly wouldn't have signed the petition in question.
15
@13, come on, you're kidding right? Where is there evidence that the mother "arranged" to have her daughter drugged and raped? She arranged to have her daughter be photographed. And when she found out what happened, she didn't argue with her daughter or shake Polanski's hand, she went to the police.
Admit it, you're pulling all this out of your ass. Or don't, and we can agree to disagree. I'm off to start my Friday night, so I'll leave the last word to you.
Admit it, you're pulling all this out of your ass. Or don't, and we can agree to disagree. I'm off to start my Friday night, so I'll leave the last word to you.
16
@15: I don't think any parent nowadays would send their 13 year old daughter off with an older man they didn't know very well. Do you think she let her daughter go because people were less suspicious then or do you think somewhere in the back of her mind she had some inkling what might happen?
18
@15 - It's what I've read on the subject. Not having been there, that's all I have to go on. Speculating about events we didn't witness is a lot like debating whether evidence points to the existence or non-existence of deity: All conclusions ultimately reflect our foundational assumptions.
Happy to agree to disagree, but I think the point on which we disagree is pretty small compared to those on which we agree--that Polanski appears to be a rapist (not because the girl was 13, but because he drugged her and she said "no"), and that his talents do not absolve him of his crime. I'm sure the matter of whether a woman we've never met, and whose own actions have no bearing on Polanski's own guilt, was herself a bad parent and would-be starfucker could easily be dismissed as inconsequential (for our purposes). Seems to me there's more caffeine than substance in our little "tiff."
Hope that Friday night you're starting in on is a lovely one.
Happy to agree to disagree, but I think the point on which we disagree is pretty small compared to those on which we agree--that Polanski appears to be a rapist (not because the girl was 13, but because he drugged her and she said "no"), and that his talents do not absolve him of his crime. I'm sure the matter of whether a woman we've never met, and whose own actions have no bearing on Polanski's own guilt, was herself a bad parent and would-be starfucker could easily be dismissed as inconsequential (for our purposes). Seems to me there's more caffeine than substance in our little "tiff."
Hope that Friday night you're starting in on is a lovely one.
19
I hear Hitler was a painter. For all I know he was a great painter. But that doesn't change what he did, no matter how great his art may have been.
20
Congratulations, Davie.
You're (finally) seeing Hollywood as it really is.
Better late than never, we guess...
You're (finally) seeing Hollywood as it really is.
Better late than never, we guess...
21
and it doesn't really matter that he did make great movies 30 years ago, he still fucking drugged and raped a person (and it doesn't matter how old she was; rape is rape). And, I don't care if the courts/DA may or may not have bungled some shit...he still committed a heinous act.
and frankly, he was always grossly overrated as a director...he made TWO great films, Rosemarys Baby and Chinatown...some of the early arty stuff was interesting but everything after Chinatown was either pure crap or well-made, middle of the road entertainment, (The Pianist and Tess).
and frankly, he was always grossly overrated as a director...he made TWO great films, Rosemarys Baby and Chinatown...some of the early arty stuff was interesting but everything after Chinatown was either pure crap or well-made, middle of the road entertainment, (The Pianist and Tess).
22
alleged geniuses like to believe they're above the petty rules that the subpar individuals around them must follow...
fuck that spooky old creep..... i love chinatown but no contribution to art excuses that shit.
fuck that spooky old creep..... i love chinatown but no contribution to art excuses that shit.
23
@16, I can't fathom that she expected and welcomed the rape of her daughter. Seems more likely that she was naively hoping her daughter would become rich and famous by modeling for this rich and famous guy.
@18, I'm only working with the facts at hand as well, and trying not to draw unfounded conclusions. I do think it was remarkably naive and irresponsible for the mother to let her daughter go unaccompanied, yes. Bad parenting, without a doubt.
Btw, thanks for not taking my mouthiness too seriously -- I take it back, you're not an asshole. And yes, I had a lovely night! During which the conclusion was reached that America should ship all its rapists to France, where they will undoubtedly be welcomed.
@18, I'm only working with the facts at hand as well, and trying not to draw unfounded conclusions. I do think it was remarkably naive and irresponsible for the mother to let her daughter go unaccompanied, yes. Bad parenting, without a doubt.
Btw, thanks for not taking my mouthiness too seriously -- I take it back, you're not an asshole. And yes, I had a lovely night! During which the conclusion was reached that America should ship all its rapists to France, where they will undoubtedly be welcomed.
24
A lot of righteous sanctimony in this thread. There's no question that Polanski's crime was odious. But the case is hardly about the original crime anymore. see http://mennonnosapiens.com/2009/10/03/fr… for more.
25
The point about the plea bargain has nothing to do with the facts of the rape, but the trial surrounding it: the judge accepted a plea bargain arranged between the defense and the DA (which the girl and her mother both consented to and agreed as fair), and then after Polanski entered his guilty plea the judge declined to honor the agreement. Before his death, the judge all but admitted that he did so for publicity and media exposure, rather than on the merits of the case.
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