Slog
News & ArtsThursday, October 1, 2009
Religion What Could Possibly Go Wrong?
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Headline of the day courtesy of the AP...
Ky. church ordains sex offender as minister
The newly Rev. Mark Hourigan sexually abused an 11-year-old boy, served five years, and was placed on Kentucky's sex-offenders registry for life. He's considered high risk to re-offend and his ordination marks the first known instance of a church knowingly ordaining a registered sex offender. But, hey, the church that ordained Hourigan only has three dozen members, so... how much damage could Hourigan really do?
1
But, Dan, he's been born again through the sanctifying blood sacrifice of the merciful Lord Jesus Christ! Jeez.
2
I think the congregation should vote on it.
And by "congregation" I mean "only the 11-year old boys" in the congregation.
And by "congregation" I mean "only the 11-year old boys" in the congregation.
3
This may be different in the particulars, but of course not in the logic or likely end results, of another denomination that almost never DE-frocks clergy known (in their secret files at least) to be sex offenders.
4
Be sure to set up a Google Alert for his name, because it'll only be a matter of time.
Inconceivable.
Inconceivable.
5
Everything. This is a stupid move on their part, a move that could only led to an innocent child being hurt or to people like you using it to trash talk the church.
8
When I saw this article come up in my 365Gay Google Feed I couldn't believe it. So wrong in so many ways.
9
Well, thank goodness the AP included just the right details to let us know what's really going on:
The church "welcomes anyone “regardless of race, religion, culture (or) sexual orientation,” according to its Web site".
and...
"“It was a really beautiful ceremony,” said the Rev. Aletha Fields, a high school teacher and gay rights activist."
What the fuck this story has got to do with gay rights I don't know, but apparently we're supposed to connect those dots.
The church "welcomes anyone “regardless of race, religion, culture (or) sexual orientation,” according to its Web site".
and...
"“It was a really beautiful ceremony,” said the Rev. Aletha Fields, a high school teacher and gay rights activist."
What the fuck this story has got to do with gay rights I don't know, but apparently we're supposed to connect those dots.
10
I adore Polanski, but his mention above led me to this joke:
Maybe now this guy will get an Oscar too.
Thank you.
Maybe now this guy will get an Oscar too.
Thank you.
11
There is no chance of anything worse happening with that church, everyone is a blood relative. The sanctity of marriage is such that all the first cousins have married each other. Everyone has been divorced 4 times, but praise the Lord has remarried with in the Church congregation itself (amen). So you see, all is well and as it should be with the Hetero-centric marriage protecting Church. Shall we all now thank the Lord.
12
@5, Sorry LC, an institution that was devised for social control and power, was the first to enforce the widespread use of the clock, and still encourages foolish decisions regarding sex and STIs/STDs -- all the while hoarding piles of cash, and remaining an active cover for power-mongers and pedophiles doesn't get a lot of marks in Book of Ethics. F*ck the Church and all it's derivatives. (ie. Weak-kneed, watered-down little "christian" denominations.. I can't be bothered with those simpering dogs begging for adherents. Feh! Either become a Real World Religion (and be reviled for that, or dry up and blow away.)
I went to a catholic boys school and lo and behold! There was a priest there whom --I discovered years later-- was clandestinely attempting to coerce the lads into showing him their penis. Perversely, he was known as The Monkey Priest, because he used a ragged puppet in his episodic class appearances.
BTW, what "denomination" is this li'l ole KY jelly-filled church anyway?
I went to a catholic boys school and lo and behold! There was a priest there whom --I discovered years later-- was clandestinely attempting to coerce the lads into showing him their penis. Perversely, he was known as The Monkey Priest, because he used a ragged puppet in his episodic class appearances.
BTW, what "denomination" is this li'l ole KY jelly-filled church anyway?
13
You know, one way to guarantee further felonious offenses by convicted felons who have served their lawful terms is to make it impossible to hold a job. That's what too many people want to do: make all felonies a life sentence. It's sad to see the supposedly progressive people on Slog doing the same thing.
What you people are basically saying is that registered sex offenders shouldn't be allowed to hold jobs. Think about that for a minute.
I think it's a great thing they're doing, and I hope he can take this opportunity to turn his life around and serve the community he has harmed. That's the WHOLE POINT of incarceration and release. Christian churches often do good work to rehabilitate offenders, and it is not uncommon to find ministers with criminal pasts. Christ didn't come to save the morally perfect with sticks up their asses, he came to save the fallen.
Once again Loveschild proves how deeply anti-Christian her own faith is, rooted as it is in judgementalism and superiority above all else. I expect that of her. I don't expect it of the rest of you.
What you people are basically saying is that registered sex offenders shouldn't be allowed to hold jobs. Think about that for a minute.
I think it's a great thing they're doing, and I hope he can take this opportunity to turn his life around and serve the community he has harmed. That's the WHOLE POINT of incarceration and release. Christian churches often do good work to rehabilitate offenders, and it is not uncommon to find ministers with criminal pasts. Christ didn't come to save the morally perfect with sticks up their asses, he came to save the fallen.
Once again Loveschild proves how deeply anti-Christian her own faith is, rooted as it is in judgementalism and superiority above all else. I expect that of her. I don't expect it of the rest of you.
14
You know, one way to guarantee further felonious offenses by convicted felons who have served their lawful terms is to make it impossible to hold a job. That's what too many people want to do: make all felonies a life sentence. It's sad to see the supposedly progressive people on Slog doing the same thing.
What you people are basically saying is that registered sex offenders shouldn't be allowed to hold jobs. Think about that for a minute.
I think it's a great thing they're doing, and I hope he can take this opportunity to turn his life around and serve the community he has harmed. That's the WHOLE POINT of incarceration and release. Christian churches often do good work to rehabilitate offenders, and it is not uncommon to find ministers with criminal pasts. Christ didn't come to save the morally perfect with sticks up their asses, he came to save the fallen.
Once again Loveschild proves how deeply anti-Christian her own faith is, rooted as it is in judgementalism and superiority above all else. I expect that of her. I don't expect it of the rest of you.
What you people are basically saying is that registered sex offenders shouldn't be allowed to hold jobs. Think about that for a minute.
I think it's a great thing they're doing, and I hope he can take this opportunity to turn his life around and serve the community he has harmed. That's the WHOLE POINT of incarceration and release. Christian churches often do good work to rehabilitate offenders, and it is not uncommon to find ministers with criminal pasts. Christ didn't come to save the morally perfect with sticks up their asses, he came to save the fallen.
Once again Loveschild proves how deeply anti-Christian her own faith is, rooted as it is in judgementalism and superiority above all else. I expect that of her. I don't expect it of the rest of you.
15
@12 "...first to enforce the widespread use of the clock..."
OT, but reminded me of an old Punch cartoon showing two guys in medieval garb talking; one has strapped to his wrist a candle marked in even graduations. The other guy says, "I prefer the pocket sundial. It doesn't singe the falcon."
Shta-ta-ta-boom.
OT, but reminded me of an old Punch cartoon showing two guys in medieval garb talking; one has strapped to his wrist a candle marked in even graduations. The other guy says, "I prefer the pocket sundial. It doesn't singe the falcon."
Shta-ta-ta-boom.
19
@14 & 15: I dunno if you can hear me all the way up there from atop that high horse of yours, but I'll try anyway. One thing progressives pride themselves in is their capability to think. And when we read a story about a sex offender put into a position where he automatically holds authority over young, easily-controlled children, where shared secrets are part of the job description, in a section of the country not known for its love of gays, we think to ourselves, "Hmmm. This could turn out badly..."
The fact that you don't have any sort of concern about this speaks to your lack of critical thinking capabilities.
The fact that you don't have any sort of concern about this speaks to your lack of critical thinking capabilities.
20
I commend this church for giving him a chance, I hope he is successful, AND I hope in loving him that they will keep him far away from the children. AND in return he will keep himself far from all the children. That the eyes of everyone involved are wide open. It's not loving to expose each other to what tempts us. That's one of the few areas that I can agree with Paul on.
24
@19, further, your characterization of progressives leaves out something pretty important: knowing what you're talking about. What you are doing instead is more characteristic of bigots, not progressives. Kentucky may indeed be "a section of the country not known for its love of gays" (there's your prejudice) but in fact THIS church is inclusive of gays and features gay rights activists in its leadership (there's your error of fact).
Also, a minister is not the same thing as a youth minister, so "authority over young, easily-controlled children" isn't really on the program there. So again, you're wrong. You're also wrong in thinking that the church in question hasn't exhaustively thought about all of these issues, far more than you have, seeing as you found out about this less than two hours ago like the rest of us.
What we're left with, in your case, is a presumption based on a comprehensively wrong and literally prejudiced understanding of what happened. That's not thinking, and it's not progressive.
I don't hold a brief in this case; I'm not a Christian, I'm not gay, I'm not a sex offender and I'm not in Kentucky. But I applaud this church for actually applying Christian tenets -- which I respect even as I reject them personally -- in a time and a place when few seem willing to do so.
Also, a minister is not the same thing as a youth minister, so "authority over young, easily-controlled children" isn't really on the program there. So again, you're wrong. You're also wrong in thinking that the church in question hasn't exhaustively thought about all of these issues, far more than you have, seeing as you found out about this less than two hours ago like the rest of us.
What we're left with, in your case, is a presumption based on a comprehensively wrong and literally prejudiced understanding of what happened. That's not thinking, and it's not progressive.
I don't hold a brief in this case; I'm not a Christian, I'm not gay, I'm not a sex offender and I'm not in Kentucky. But I applaud this church for actually applying Christian tenets -- which I respect even as I reject them personally -- in a time and a place when few seem willing to do so.
26
@24: You're right, they've no doubt done far more thinking about this than any one of us, including me. You make some very fair points. I started typing out a long mea culpa, but I'm kinda tired of typing, deleting, editing, and retyping.
...And yeah, I kinda overlooked the Westboro Baptist Church being in Seattle when I characterized KY as "not known for its love of gays."
I do appreciate the honest, civil discussion, and while I concede some points, I still have to reserve my feelings of apprehension at reading this.
...And yeah, I kinda overlooked the Westboro Baptist Church being in Seattle when I characterized KY as "not known for its love of gays."
I do appreciate the honest, civil discussion, and while I concede some points, I still have to reserve my feelings of apprehension at reading this.
27
@26, Westboro is in KS, not KY. And this church isn't Westboro.
I think any serious effort to reintegrate sex offenders back into society in ways that helps them not reoffend has to be applauded. The alternative is just locking them all up and throwing away the key. I don't think that's very civilized.
As you may have noticed, I myself NEVER get tired of typing, and typing, and typing....
I think any serious effort to reintegrate sex offenders back into society in ways that helps them not reoffend has to be applauded. The alternative is just locking them all up and throwing away the key. I don't think that's very civilized.
As you may have noticed, I myself NEVER get tired of typing, and typing, and typing....
28
Damnit, Dan... You've gone and made me agree with Fnarf!
As long as this guy abides by any restrictions placed upon him because of his conviction(s), then he should be given the benefit of the doubt that he has served his sentence and is reforming his life.
That should be true whether the person was arrested and jailed for growing and selling pot or for a sexual compulsion.
As long as this guy abides by any restrictions placed upon him because of his conviction(s), then he should be given the benefit of the doubt that he has served his sentence and is reforming his life.
That should be true whether the person was arrested and jailed for growing and selling pot or for a sexual compulsion.
29
@27: Aw, dammit. You've failed me for the last time, Google!!
All the hits I found were about when they were visiting here in Seattle for some reason. Searching just their name on Google tells me they're out of Topeka. Ugh. Thanks.
All the hits I found were about when they were visiting here in Seattle for some reason. Searching just their name on Google tells me they're out of Topeka. Ugh. Thanks.
30
I think running churches is the perfect job for child molesters. When you think about how religion rapes their minds.
31
Giving a pedophile access to children is like giving a recovering, sober addict a job guarding the evidence locker at the DEA and telling them they can look, but not touch. You know they're gonna fall off the wagon.
32
http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/res/cor/su…
From the above website:
"Among child molesters, however, the rate of sexual offense recidivism was much lower for the incest offenders (4%) than for the boy-victim pedophiles (21%). Sexual offense recidivism was best predicted by measures of sexual deviancy (e.g., prior sexual offenses, deviant sexual interests), and, to a lesser extent, by general criminological factors (e.g., age, total prior offenses).Those offenders who were motivated to receive treatment were at lower risk (8%) than unmotivated offenders or those who failed to complete treatment programs (22%).
No single factor was sufficiently related to recidivism, however, to justify its use in isolation. The most accurate risk assessments were those that considered a combination of risk factors."
The AP article doesn't have enough information for anyone to assess the risk of of Hourigan's risk of reoffending as it doesn't mention his previous record, treatment programs taken, level of support in the community, whether Hourigan is a "groomer " of boys, et al. The one thing the article mentioned is that his previous victim was a boy - but not whether the child was related to Hourigan. (Hourigan is at a higher risk to reoffend if his previous victim wasn't related to him.)
While I agree with Fnarf that offenders shouldn't be hounded out of jobs simply due to the fact they have a criminal record, I hope that the church that ordained him knows at least as much as I do about pedophiles.... If they are relying on "the healing power of the Holy Spirit" I would be very , very worried.
From the above website:
"Among child molesters, however, the rate of sexual offense recidivism was much lower for the incest offenders (4%) than for the boy-victim pedophiles (21%). Sexual offense recidivism was best predicted by measures of sexual deviancy (e.g., prior sexual offenses, deviant sexual interests), and, to a lesser extent, by general criminological factors (e.g., age, total prior offenses).Those offenders who were motivated to receive treatment were at lower risk (8%) than unmotivated offenders or those who failed to complete treatment programs (22%).
No single factor was sufficiently related to recidivism, however, to justify its use in isolation. The most accurate risk assessments were those that considered a combination of risk factors."
The AP article doesn't have enough information for anyone to assess the risk of of Hourigan's risk of reoffending as it doesn't mention his previous record, treatment programs taken, level of support in the community, whether Hourigan is a "groomer " of boys, et al. The one thing the article mentioned is that his previous victim was a boy - but not whether the child was related to Hourigan. (Hourigan is at a higher risk to reoffend if his previous victim wasn't related to him.)
While I agree with Fnarf that offenders shouldn't be hounded out of jobs simply due to the fact they have a criminal record, I hope that the church that ordained him knows at least as much as I do about pedophiles.... If they are relying on "the healing power of the Holy Spirit" I would be very , very worried.
33
5, Loveschild, it's hypocrites like you that lead to the trash talking of the church. You only pretend to follow the Bible. You ignore what you don't want to follow, while at the same time you condemn others for doing the same.
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