Slog
News & ArtsThursday, October 1, 2009
Crime / Film The Polanski Petition
Posted by Brendan Kiley on Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Gillian posted about it earlier—and it's disheartening to read the list of people who've signed it. People you'd hoped would have better sense than to protest the detainment of a man who's admitted to drugging and fucking a 13-year-old.
They're protesting the police detainment on the grounds that Polanski was "on his way to a film festival where he was due to receive an award for his career in filmmaking."
Because how dare the police detain a man who's admitted to drugging and fucking a 13-year-old! While he's on his way to received an award! The indignity! The gall!
Petition-signers include: Wim Wenders, David Lynch, Tilda Swinton, Pedro Almodovar, Gael Garcia Bernal, Martin Scorsese, Wes Anderson, Penelope Cruz, Costa Gavras, Ariel Dorfman (Ariel Dorfman—seriously?), Brigitte Chesneau, Guillermo del Toro, Wong Kar Waï, and many, many more.
(And may I ask where you fatuous fucks have been for the past eight years? Of all the extraordinary renditions you had a chance to protest, this should've been at the very bottom of your collective list.)
But you know who (thankfully) didn't sign this stupid, arrogant, let-them-eat-cake document? Joel and Ethan Coen.
As Sean Nelson wrote in his article about Polanski that Frizzelle linked a few days ago:
It would be nice to be all postmodern and claim the author isn't an issue when it comes to experiencing a work of art, but let's be serious. It's nearly impossible to separate the 21st-century knowledge of a filmmaker/songwriter/novelist/actor's life from the inquiry into what they do. And so it will always be that Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown, even a late-stage triumph like The Pianist will always have been directed by the filthiest of little brats.
The full list of the members of the film aristocracy who are "dismayed" by the arrest of a man who's admitted to drugging and fucking a 13-year-old is below the jump.
Erika Abrams, Fatih Akin, Yves Alberty, Stephane Allagnon, Woody Allen, Pedro Almodovar, Gianni Amelio, Wess Anderson, Michel Andrieu, Roger Andrieux, Jean-Jacques Annaud, Frédéric Aranzueque-Arrieta, Alexandre Arcady, Fanny Ardant, Asia Argento, Marie-Hélène Arnau, Darren Aronofsky, Olivier Assayas, Alexander Astruc, Gabriel Auer, Zdzicho Augustyniak, Alexandre Babel, Vladimir Bagrianski, Fausto Nicolás Balbi, Eleonor Baldwin, Jean-François Balmer, Alberto Barbera Museo nazionale de Torino, Luc Barnier, Christophe Barratier, Ernest Barteldes, Carmen Bartl, Pascal Batigne, Anne Baudry, Juan Antonio Bayona, Xavier Beauvois, Liria Begeja, Matthieu Béguelin, Gilles Behat, Jean-Jacques Beineix, Marco Bellochio, Yannick Bellon, Florence Bellone, Monica Bellucci, Véra Belmont, Jacqueline belon, Jean-Marc Benguigui, Djamel Bennecib, Luc Béraud, Jacob Berger, Alain Berliner, Gael Garcia Bernal, Pascal Berney, Bernardo Bertolucci, Giuseppe Bertolucci, Jean-Marie Besset, Marlène Bisson, Arnstein Bjørkly, Lucien Blacher, Virginie Blanc-Brude Bard, Jean-Marc Bloch, Catherine Boissière, Anne-Sylvie Bonaud, Olivier Bonnet, Thierry Boscheron, Freddy Bossy, Patrick Bouchitey, Cédric Bouchoucha, Paul Boujenah, Frédéric Bourboulon, Katia Boutin (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Ian Brady, Jacques Bral, Sophie Bramly, Paulo Branco, Patrick Braoudé, Guila Braoudé, Edwin Brienen, Isabelle Broué, Max Brun, Merima Bruncevic, Anne Burki, André Buytaers, Emilie Buzyn, Anthony Byrne, Marco Cacioppo, Gerald Calderon, Monica Cannizzaro, John Carchietta, Christian Carion, Henning Carlsen, Jean-Michel Carré, Esteban Carvajal Alegria, Lionel Cassan (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Bryan Cassiday, Mathieu Celary, Teco Celio, Muriel Cerf, Chagi, Jean-Yves Chalangeas, Daniel Champagnon, Christophe Champclaux, Georges Chappedelaine, Fabienne Chauveau, Claire Chazal, Patrice Chéreau, Brigitte Chesneau, Mishka Cheyko, Catherine Chiono, Catherine Chouchan, Elie Chouraqui, Souleymane Cissé, Jean- Pierre Clech, Henri Codenie, Robert Cohen, Suzanne Colonna, Jean-Paul Commin, Anne Consigny, Alain Cophignon, Alain Corneau, Jérôme Cornuau, Guy Courtecuisse (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Miguel Courtois, Antoine Courtray, Guillaume Cousin, Morgan Crestel, Dominique Crevecoeur, Penelope Cruz, Alfonso Cuaron, Estelle Cywje, Frédéric Damien, Sophie Danon, Olivier Dard, Luc et Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Isabelle Dassonville, Hervé de Luze (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Artus de Penguern, Valérie de Saint-Do, Virginie De Wilde, Viviane Decuypere, Guillermo del Toro, Benoît Delmas, Jonathan Demme, Ruud den Dryver, Dante Desarthe, Romain Desbiens, Sophie Deschamps, Thomas Desjonquères (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Alexandre Desplat, Chris Devi, Rosalinde et Michel Deville, Guillaume D'Ham (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Christelle Didier (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Kathrin DiPaola, Claire Dixsaut, Xavier Dolan, Ariel Dorfman, Jean Douchet, Jean Douchet, Fabrice du Welz, Marina Duarte Nunes Ferreira, Marc Dufrenois, Sissi Duparc, Jean Dusaussoy, Georges Dybman, Daniel Edinger, Yaniv Elani, Elrem, Sam Enoch, Ernest, Jacques Fansten, Joël Farges, Gianluca Farinelli (Cinémathèque de Bologne), Etienne Faure, Maud et Romain Ferrari, Michel Ferry, Jean Teddy Filippe (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Aurélie Fiorentino, Alan Fischer, Martine Fitoussi, Sebastian Fleischhacker, Joy Fleury., Michael Flynn, Hugues Fontenoy, Scott Foundas, Werner Fraai, Jean-Robert Franco, Stephen Frears, Thierry Frémaux, Marc Freycon, Sam Gabarski, René Gainville, Sara Gandolfi, Matteo Garone, Yves Gasser, Tony Gatlif, Catherine Gaudin-Montalto, Jean-Marc Gauthier, Costa Gavras, Nathalie Geiser, Lizi Gelber, Isabelle Gély, Jean-Marc Ghanassia, Alain Gil, Véronique Gillet, Terry Gilliam, Christian Gion, François Girault, Stéphane Gizard, Carlos Miguel Bernardo González, Christophe Goumand, Michel Gras, Eric Gravereau, Martin Gregus, Philippe Gruss, Marc Guidoni, Marta Gutowska, Mikael Håfström, Ronald Harwood, Dimitri Haulet, Geert Heirbaut, Buck Henry, David Heyman, Laurent Heynemann, Joshua Highfield , Dominique Hollier, Isabelle Hontebeyrie, Frédéric Horiszny, Robert Hossein, Jean-Loup Hubert, Wendy Hudson, Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, Gilles Jacob, Eric et Veronique et Nicolas Jacquelin, Just Jaeckin, Thomas Jahn, Olivia Janik, Jean-Baptiste Jay, Anne Jeandet, Alain Jessua, Renate Jett, Sébastien Jimenez, Arthur Joffé, Pierre Jolivet, Kent Jones (World Cinema Foundation), Peter Josy, Alexandra Julen, Paola Jullian, Roger Kahane, Pierre Kalfon, Elisabeth Kalinowski, Reena Kanji, Nelly Kaplan, Wong Kar Waï, Darius Khondji, Ladislas Kijno, Richard Klebinder, Jonathan Klein, Harmony Korinne, Jan Kounen, Sylvia Kristel, Diane Kurys, Emir Kusturica, Irene Kuznetzova, Jean Labadie, Eliane Lacroux, Michel Laigle, Stéphane Lam, John Landis, Claude Lanzmann, David Lanzmann, André Larquié, Pauline Larrieu, Jacques et Françoise Lassalle, Carole Laure, Christine Laurent-Blixen, Pierre Laville, Emilien Lazaron (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Eric Le Roy, Fábio Leal, Vinciane Lecocq, Patrice Leconte, Linda Lefebvre, Béatrice Lefoulon, Delphine Legros, Claude Lelouch, Ann Lemonnier, Alain Lenglet, Gérard Lenne, Larry Levine, Lorraine Lévy, Pierre et Renée Lhomme, Marceline Loridan-Ivens, Michael Louis Wells, Catalina Lozano, Hugo Luczyc-Wyhowski, Flore Luquet, Laurence Lustyk, David Lynch, Bania Madjbar, Laurent Malet, Tim Malieckal, Guy Malugani, Erling Mandelmann, Michael Mann, Yvon Marciano, François Margolin, Jean-Pierre Marois, Tonie Marshall, Alain Martin, Sandrine Martin, Danielle Martinetti, Didier Martiny, Mario Martone, Christine Mathis, Esmeralda Mattei, Nicolas Mauvernay, Yannick Mazet, Christopher, Spencer et Claire Mc Andrew, Natalie Mei, Guillermo Menaldi, Mathieu Mercier, Muriel Mercier, Frédéric Mermoud, Laura Metaxa, Allison Michel, Radu Mihaileanu, Jean-Louis Milesi, Claude Miller, Lionel Miniato, Nelly Moaligou, Jean - Marc Modeste , Mario Monicelli, Jeanne Moreau, Gael Morel, Omayra Muñiz Fernández, Stephanie Murat, Christian Mvogo Mbarga, Anna N.Levine, Charles Nemes, Juliette Nicolas-Donnard, Sandra Nicolier, Rachel Noël, Rui Nogueira, Olivier Nolin, Alejandra Norambuena Skira, Fabrice Nordmann, Fabrice O. Joubert, Michel Ocelot, David Ogando, Mariana Oliveira Santos, Szentgyörgyi Ottó, Martine Pagès, Eric Pape, Abner Pastoll, Alexander Payne, Nicola Pecorini, Richard Pena (Directeur Festival de NY), Lindsey Pence, Olivier Père, Suzana Peric (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost") , Jacques Perrin, Thomas Pibarot, Arnaud Pierrichon, Stéphane Pietri, Anne Pigeon Bormans, Samuel Pinon, Claude Pinoteau, Michele Placido, Sabrina Poidevin, Agnès Catherine Poirier, Jean-Yves Potel, Stéphane Pozderec, Harry Prenger, Jean et Marie Prévost, Gilbert Primet, Marie-Hélène Raby, Philippe Radault, Tristan Rain, Florence Raphaël, Jean-Paul Rappeneau, Joseph Rassam, Rolandas Rastauskas, Brett Ratner, Raphael Rebibo, Jo Reymen, Laurence Reymond, Yasmina Reza, Christiane Rhein, Jacques Richard, Dominique Robert, Jean-Jacques Rochut, Yannick Rolandeau, Paul Rondags, Avital Ronell, Frank Roozendaal, Graciela Rosato, Kontochristopoulou Roula, Laurence Roulet, Joshua Rout, Paolo Roversi, Florence Rphael, Isabelle Ruh, Martin Ruhe, Sonia Rykiel, Anita S. Chang, Esteban S. Goffin, JOAQUÍN Sabina, Marc Saffar, Ludivine Sagnier, Gabriela Salazar Scherman, Walter Salles, Jean-Paul Salomé, Jean-Frédéric Samie, Marc Sandberg, Léo Scalpel, Jerry Schatzberg, Richard Schlesinger, Daniel Schmidt, Georg Schmithüsen, Julian Schnabel, Pierre Schoendoerffer, Barbet Schroeder, J. Neil Schulman, Pierre Schumacher, Pierre-Alexandre Schwab, Ettore Scola, Luis Gustavo Sconza Zaratin Soares, Martin Scorsese, Steven Sedgwick, Steven Sedgwick, Andrea Sedlackova, Frank Segier, Michèle Seguin-Sirhugue, Guy Seligmann, Elis Semczuk, Lorenzo Semple Jr, Julien Seri, Sophie Sharkov, Boris Shlafer, Antoine Silber, Pierre Silvant, Charlotte Silvera, Noel Simsolo, Christophe Sirodeau, Abderrahmane Sissako, Beatrice Sisul , Petter Skavlan, Marcin Sokolowski, Paolo Sorrentino, Roch Stephanik, Karen Stetler, Guillaume Stirn, Gérard Stum, Jean-Marc Surcin, Tilda Swinton, Jean-Charles Tacchella, Radovan Tadic, Danis Tanovic, Bertrand Tavernier, André Techiné, Cécile Telerman, Harold Alvarado Tenorio, Alain Terzian, Christian Texier, Valentine Theret, Virginie Thévenet, Pascal Thomas, Jeremy Thomas, Marc Thomas Charley, Giuseppe Tornatore, Serge Toubiana, Nadine Trintignant, Julie Turcas, Mitja Tušek, Tom Tykwer, Alexandre Tylski, Stephen Ujlaki, Jaques Vallotton, Phil van der Linden, Betrand van Effenterre, Leopold van Genechten, Christophe van Rompaey, Dorna van Rouveroy, Elbert van Strien, Vangelis, Alessio Vannetti, Lucília Verdelho da Costa, Christian Verdu, Jean-Pierre Vergne, Sarah Vermande, Julien Veyret, Marc Villemain, Jean-François Villemer, Daria Vinault, Verde Visconti, Thomas Vossart, Gilles Walusinski, Eric Watton, Dominique Welinski, Wim Wenders, Anaïse Wittmann, A Wolanin, Margot Wolfs, Arnaud Xainte, Paule Zajdermann, Christian Zeender, Terry Zwigoff.
1
Given that "Tess" was his artist riff about his exploits with the girl, you'd think as an artist he'd welcome the experience of doing time in an American prison.
As far as the Coen Brothers...all their films stink...won't pass the test of history.
As far as the Coen Brothers...all their films stink...won't pass the test of history.
2
lol @ 1
Were you lobotomized with a cursed mummy penis or something? You have serious brain problems if you don't like the Coens and further think that their movies won't be remembered.
Were you lobotomized with a cursed mummy penis or something? You have serious brain problems if you don't like the Coens and further think that their movies won't be remembered.
4
Is there a petition for people who want him extradited and jailed for his crimes? If someone posts a link to a good, high-profile one, I'll give you a tasty, tasty biscuit. (And then sign it myself.)
5
Anal rape of a 13-year-old. Last week. Last decade. Last three decades. It needs to be addressed. A tribunal is called for.
David Lynch? What the fuck? So much for all that transcendental meditation.
David Lynch? What the fuck? So much for all that transcendental meditation.
8
Wess Anderson, NOOOOOOOO!!! That makes me sad.
From the petition:
"His arrest follows an American arrest warrant dating from 1978 against the filmmaker, in a case of morals."
Morals? He drugged and raped her. It's not just about her being underage. Fuck.
From the petition:
"His arrest follows an American arrest warrant dating from 1978 against the filmmaker, in a case of morals."
Morals? He drugged and raped her. It's not just about her being underage. Fuck.
9
let's not forget that this was not a case of a horny precocious teen gettin' high and willingly doing it with an older guy. i might cut him some slack if it had been that. no, he ANAL RAPED a 13 yr old girl. there really is nothing redeeming about it.
10
Aagh, I so don't want this story to be happening. Everything about it is ugly, including the fact that I'm posting the opinion of Margaret Wente, with whom, for the first time, ever I completely agree:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opin…
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opin…
11
#2. You may not offer a criticism of how Raising Arizona elevated American cinema in the 1980s.
You have 20 minutes.
Begin.
You have 20 minutes.
Begin.
12
John Landis... Isn't he the guy who got two kids (and a grown man) killed because he couldn't be bothered with child labor laws regarding explosives, helicopters and the number of hours kids are allowed to work in a day?
13
I'm boycotting Hollywood. Bunch of assholes. They condone rape, but feel that a legal arrest is unreasonable? Fucking morons, all.
14
Gael Garcia Bernal:..I No longer find you to be the sexiest man alive.
Are you F@#$ing kidding me...all these peeople signed this?
Are you F@#$ing kidding me...all these peeople signed this?
15
Here's something SLOG would like:
http://en.wikipedia.org
Ages_of_consent_in_Europe
#France
"Male homosexual acts were illegal until 1791, when the ancient sodomy laws were dropped from the Criminal Code of that year. This continued to be the case under the Napoleonic Code of 1810. In 1942, the age of consent for homosexual acts was set at 21, while that for heterosexual acts was 13. The latter was increased to 15 in 1945. In 1978, the age for homosexual acts was lowered to 18. In 1981, it was lowered to 15, in line with that for heterosexual acts."
(1) This makes a number of points. Near the time that Polanski was a child/teen, 13 was the age of consent in France.
(2) Being gay was ok in early France, as long as you were an adult (?)
Here's something SLOG would like:
http://en.wikipedia.org
Ages_of_consent_in_Europe
#France
"Male homosexual acts were illegal until 1791, when the ancient sodomy laws were dropped from the Criminal Code of that year. This continued to be the case under the Napoleonic Code of 1810. In 1942, the age of consent for homosexual acts was set at 21, while that for heterosexual acts was 13. The latter was increased to 15 in 1945. In 1978, the age for homosexual acts was lowered to 18. In 1981, it was lowered to 15, in line with that for heterosexual acts."
(1) This makes a number of points. Near the time that Polanski was a child/teen, 13 was the age of consent in France.
(2) Being gay was ok in early France, as long as you were an adult (?)
16
Woody Allen's on Roman Polanski's side. Wow, colour me shocked, NOT.
Sad about Tilda Swinton, though. D:
Sad about Tilda Swinton, though. D:
17
@15 And if she had consented, that may be an interesting side note to the rape. However, she said no multiple times and he had drugged her. In no way can this be confused with age of consent laws in France.
18
@13- Wong Kar Wai isn't exactly hollywood. Very sad to see him on this list. Same with Almadovar.
19
I'm not in any way defending Polanski's rape.
However, this isn't about his rape. It is about the particular means of Polanski's arrest.
Polanski owns a house in Switzerland. He's been in and out of Switzerland hundreds of times over the last 30 years. There have been countless opportunities to arrest him in Switzerland over the last 30 years. So why now? Why arrest him on his way to an international film festival?
This particular film festival is in a neutral country. One reason for that is so that filmmakers can feel they can air their films without fear. We don't worry about that much here in the US. But there are filmmakers from all sorts of countries where they could get in all sorts of trouble for their films. Films from China that don't conform to their codes. Films from the middle east dealing with the subject of homosexuality. There are all sorts of countries all over the world that have a lot more restrictions on filmmakers than we are aware of here in the US.
Arresting one of the most famous directors in the world, on his way to a film festival in a neutral country, has the unintentional side effect of being a huge chilling message to controversial filmmakers.
THAT is what all these directors are complaining about.
However, this isn't about his rape. It is about the particular means of Polanski's arrest.
Polanski owns a house in Switzerland. He's been in and out of Switzerland hundreds of times over the last 30 years. There have been countless opportunities to arrest him in Switzerland over the last 30 years. So why now? Why arrest him on his way to an international film festival?
This particular film festival is in a neutral country. One reason for that is so that filmmakers can feel they can air their films without fear. We don't worry about that much here in the US. But there are filmmakers from all sorts of countries where they could get in all sorts of trouble for their films. Films from China that don't conform to their codes. Films from the middle east dealing with the subject of homosexuality. There are all sorts of countries all over the world that have a lot more restrictions on filmmakers than we are aware of here in the US.
Arresting one of the most famous directors in the world, on his way to a film festival in a neutral country, has the unintentional side effect of being a huge chilling message to controversial filmmakers.
THAT is what all these directors are complaining about.
23
Ariel Dorfman's name on this list is surprising and disappointing.
@15--Although I'm not sure why the age of consent in France is relevant, you should take another look at the post. The age of consent for heterosexual acts (which is what we're talking about here) was changed to 15 in 1945--34 years before Polanski's acts. Plus, age of consent is a non-issue if you drug someone.
@15--Although I'm not sure why the age of consent in France is relevant, you should take another look at the post. The age of consent for heterosexual acts (which is what we're talking about here) was changed to 15 in 1945--34 years before Polanski's acts. Plus, age of consent is a non-issue if you drug someone.
25
And for Maximilien François Marie Isidore de Robespierre :
"...asked if he could penetrate her anally, to which she replied, "No," then went ahead and did it anyway, until he had an orgasm."
http://tinyurl.com/ybhq3mg
"...asked if he could penetrate her anally, to which she replied, "No," then went ahead and did it anyway, until he had an orgasm."
http://tinyurl.com/ybhq3mg
26
A lot of those artists are people who, whether they meant to or not, have shown me important things about being human that I hadn't known.
The difficult, dark and ambiguous situation Sean Nelson described so beautifully, with Polanski roaming around outside U.S. borders continuing to film and continuing to fuck, living both with the harm he'd been done and the harm he'd done others including that poor girl, seemed infinitely preferable to setting off another one of our justified-outrage binges.
Whether the extradition goes through or not, the arrest has set off an unstoppable vengeance-is-mine news blitz. Most media outlets, Fox News and Slog alike, will don their Captain Justice outfits to rouse us rabble day in and day out until the day of Polanski's glorious sentencing.
And that's just foul.
The difficult, dark and ambiguous situation Sean Nelson described so beautifully, with Polanski roaming around outside U.S. borders continuing to film and continuing to fuck, living both with the harm he'd been done and the harm he'd done others including that poor girl, seemed infinitely preferable to setting off another one of our justified-outrage binges.
Whether the extradition goes through or not, the arrest has set off an unstoppable vengeance-is-mine news blitz. Most media outlets, Fox News and Slog alike, will don their Captain Justice outfits to rouse us rabble day in and day out until the day of Polanski's glorious sentencing.
And that's just foul.
27
Thank you @19 for providing some perspective on this. I am sure they can't all simply be supporting what he did. There must be a larger concern here that is compelling people to sign this thing.
28
Arresting one of the most famous directors in the world, on his way to a film festival in a neutral country, has the unintentional side effect of being a huge chilling message to controversial filmmakers.
Unless I'm mistaken, the controversy here isn't about the content of his films.
Unless I'm mistaken, the controversy here isn't about the content of his films.
29
@28: No, but you can understand why a filmmaker would make that leap, right? And feel uneasy?
So far that's the only way of looking at this mess that allows it to make any sense at all. It just seems so improbable that all these people would be so invested in protecting him from serving some jail time.
I would love to hear some of these people explain their reasoning. If this is really just about, Oh, Polanski's such a great artist, he should be free... that's just so fucking flaky. Surely they're not all that stupid.
So far that's the only way of looking at this mess that allows it to make any sense at all. It just seems so improbable that all these people would be so invested in protecting him from serving some jail time.
I would love to hear some of these people explain their reasoning. If this is really just about, Oh, Polanski's such a great artist, he should be free... that's just so fucking flaky. Surely they're not all that stupid.
30
"When I was younger I really didn't have any control over the situation, but now I want to deal with it on my
own terms. I don't carry feelings of anger towards Polanski. I even have some sympathy for him, what with
his mother dying in a concentration camp and then his wife Sharon Tate being murdered by Charles
Manson's people and spending the last 20 years as a fugitive. Life was hard for him, just like it was for me.
He did something really gross to me, but it was the media that ruined my life." -- Samantha Geimer, the
victim in the Roman Polanski sex crime case from 1977, in a recent People magazine interview
If the victim can forgive him, why can't society? If Polanski had served time, he would be forgiven (at least by the law). The crime is no longer his actions of 30 years ago - which he could have attoned for - but the fact that he never faced the consequences.
So, yeah, lock him up. But not with all this self-righteously offensive vitriol about child rape and such.
I don't side with the directors in the petition, but I understand why they are so upset. It does open a can of worms for controversial directors. On the other hand, Polanski has eluded justice for a long time. He's a criminal that finally got caught. No reason to be so upset about that, I'm afraid.
own terms. I don't carry feelings of anger towards Polanski. I even have some sympathy for him, what with
his mother dying in a concentration camp and then his wife Sharon Tate being murdered by Charles
Manson's people and spending the last 20 years as a fugitive. Life was hard for him, just like it was for me.
He did something really gross to me, but it was the media that ruined my life." -- Samantha Geimer, the
victim in the Roman Polanski sex crime case from 1977, in a recent People magazine interview
If the victim can forgive him, why can't society? If Polanski had served time, he would be forgiven (at least by the law). The crime is no longer his actions of 30 years ago - which he could have attoned for - but the fact that he never faced the consequences.
So, yeah, lock him up. But not with all this self-righteously offensive vitriol about child rape and such.
I don't side with the directors in the petition, but I understand why they are so upset. It does open a can of worms for controversial directors. On the other hand, Polanski has eluded justice for a long time. He's a criminal that finally got caught. No reason to be so upset about that, I'm afraid.
31
We demand vengeance! Famous people must be hunted down mercilessly and made to suffer! Extradition laws be damned! The mob has spoken! Get him!
33
Such iconic films and loyal devotees. With Woody Allen on board, this is the hipster version of Youth Pastor Watch.
34
Roman Polanski directed a film of Ariel Dorfman's "Death and the Maiden." So his inclusion doesn't particularly shock me.
35
They'll get over it, though they'd like to think they won't.
And if I can manage to watch one of Polanski's movies and enjoy it for its own merits, I can continue to watch movies to which all the petition signers have contributed in a similar fashion. Signing the petition doesn't reflect well upon them, but it's just a petition, quite possibly the least they could do to actually affect the situation.
And if I can manage to watch one of Polanski's movies and enjoy it for its own merits, I can continue to watch movies to which all the petition signers have contributed in a similar fashion. Signing the petition doesn't reflect well upon them, but it's just a petition, quite possibly the least they could do to actually affect the situation.
36
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti…
I've seen it reported a few places that Ethan Coen signed the petition.
I've seen it reported a few places that Ethan Coen signed the petition.
38
hollywood (and the entertainment industry in general) are totally delusional. this is out of control. time for us to stop watching films and go back to reading books and having conversations. wes anderson? david lynch? tilda swinton? WHAT THE FUCK? why not mobilize for something worthy and life changing - like HEALTH CARE REFORM. i am so utterly disgusted.
39
Godda love the wacky left — the biggest issue apparently is sticking cocks in assholes, and then they wonder why 90% of the country has other concerns.
40
The girl he raped:
"Straight up, what he did to me was wrong. But I wish he would return to America so the whole ordeal can be put to rest for both of us." Furthermore, "I'm sure if he could go back, he wouldn't do it again. He made a terrible mistake but he's paid for it." In 2008, Geimer stated in an interview that she wishes Polanski would be forgiven, "I think he's sorry, I think he knows it was wrong. I don't think he's a danger to society. I don't think he needs to be locked up forever and no one has ever come out ever — besides me — and accused him of anything. It was 30 years ago now. It's an unpleasant memory ... (but) I can live with it."
"Straight up, what he did to me was wrong. But I wish he would return to America so the whole ordeal can be put to rest for both of us." Furthermore, "I'm sure if he could go back, he wouldn't do it again. He made a terrible mistake but he's paid for it." In 2008, Geimer stated in an interview that she wishes Polanski would be forgiven, "I think he's sorry, I think he knows it was wrong. I don't think he's a danger to society. I don't think he needs to be locked up forever and no one has ever come out ever — besides me — and accused him of anything. It was 30 years ago now. It's an unpleasant memory ... (but) I can live with it."
41
@19: So, you feel that because of Switzerland's overall neutrality with respect to global politics, it should not have extradition agreements with other countries for violent criminals?
The amount of denial shown on the part of Polanski supporters in this case has been incredible. He's a self-admitted child-rapist, and skipped on the bail that he was granted by the justice system that his lawyers are now disparaging.
I think it's great that Switzerland doesn't arrest Arab filmmakers attending its film festivals for violations of Sharia law. I also think it's great that Switzerland cooperated with the US in finally bringing to justice an old, worthless fuckhead who raped a child and then fled judgment day amidst a flurry of lame excuses.
Roman Polanski: Fuck you.
The amount of denial shown on the part of Polanski supporters in this case has been incredible. He's a self-admitted child-rapist, and skipped on the bail that he was granted by the justice system that his lawyers are now disparaging.
I think it's great that Switzerland doesn't arrest Arab filmmakers attending its film festivals for violations of Sharia law. I also think it's great that Switzerland cooperated with the US in finally bringing to justice an old, worthless fuckhead who raped a child and then fled judgment day amidst a flurry of lame excuses.
Roman Polanski: Fuck you.
42
I guess I don't really understand how "he's suffered enough (by living a full life in France, fathering children, making movies and money)" and "Why did they arrest him NOW! He's been in Switzerland many times before (just because they didn't happen to grab him earlier doesn't mean they gave up)" somehow makes non-consensual sex with someone of ANY age okay
The arguments that Switzerland is some sort of magic fairy land of neutrality are bullshit. Controversial films have been shown all over the world, with no risk to their creators (other than the ones who raped a kid). I think some of these directors and actors are mistaking the Swiss legal system for their banking system (which is no longer sacrosanct either).
He fucked a kid, maybe he's a better person now, who fucking cares...If a child molester who didn't make films fled the country and was captured 30 years later, do you think ANY of these people would give a shit? Other than maybe to throw a benefit concert in the VICTIM'S honor, rather than the rapist's?
Anyway, yes...I am very saddened by the amount of people I formerly respected who signed that petition. I understand separating the artist from the art, but I also think there comes a point where you draw a line.
The arguments that Switzerland is some sort of magic fairy land of neutrality are bullshit. Controversial films have been shown all over the world, with no risk to their creators (other than the ones who raped a kid). I think some of these directors and actors are mistaking the Swiss legal system for their banking system (which is no longer sacrosanct either).
He fucked a kid, maybe he's a better person now, who fucking cares...If a child molester who didn't make films fled the country and was captured 30 years later, do you think ANY of these people would give a shit? Other than maybe to throw a benefit concert in the VICTIM'S honor, rather than the rapist's?
Anyway, yes...I am very saddened by the amount of people I formerly respected who signed that petition. I understand separating the artist from the art, but I also think there comes a point where you draw a line.
43
The man may be a talented director, but that shouldn't mitigate being a disgusting prick. The very night his wife was murdered, he was fucking some other chick. Being able to depict moving stories on film doesn't make his actions any less repulsive.
46
I love you Brendan Kiley. I'd have your baby if I still had a uterus and wasn't a guy. Polanski should be put in general population and that population should know just why he is in prison. There is such a thing as prison justice. Tilda Swinton? SRSLY? She used to be one of my favorite actors of all time.
47
Couldn't be bothered to read everything here, but I thought this would possibly help answer some questions about why they decided to arrest him now:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/20…
That he was traveling to a highly publicized event to accept an award just proved to be a very fortuitous event.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/20…
That he was traveling to a highly publicized event to accept an award just proved to be a very fortuitous event.
48
@19: Yes, it has a chilling effect indeed. First they came for the child rapists, and I didn't speak up because I was not a child rapist...
...actually it turned out that was pretty much the right thing to do. Let's go get a beer.
Seriously, if you believe that film festivals are some sort of magical fairyland where laws against drugging and raping 13-year-olds must not be enforced lest Tinkerbell fall ill and die, you are a complete fucking...
Wait, no, equivocation like this is beneath us all. You're a complete fucking moron, an embarrassment to the parents who spawned you and the species that reluctantly claims you. Please throw yourself into the nearest burning building.
...actually it turned out that was pretty much the right thing to do. Let's go get a beer.
Seriously, if you believe that film festivals are some sort of magical fairyland where laws against drugging and raping 13-year-olds must not be enforced lest Tinkerbell fall ill and die, you are a complete fucking...
Wait, no, equivocation like this is beneath us all. You're a complete fucking moron, an embarrassment to the parents who spawned you and the species that reluctantly claims you. Please throw yourself into the nearest burning building.
50
How easily we confuse "sex" with "sexism".
The age of consent in Canada, Italy, South Carolina, and Germany is 14. In Mexico it's 12.
People are ready to have sex at different ages. The choice of a magical legal age may be necessary, but it's not a size that fits all. Many of my female friends in high school illegally fucked 20 somethings because they considered us fellow 15 year olds too imature, and they had a point.
Sure, technically speaking, Polanski broke the law. I haven't seen the details of the case, but all this hysteria and outrage seems better suited for criminals who actually rape (in the non-statuatory sense), beat, and kill people.
The age of consent in Canada, Italy, South Carolina, and Germany is 14. In Mexico it's 12.
People are ready to have sex at different ages. The choice of a magical legal age may be necessary, but it's not a size that fits all. Many of my female friends in high school illegally fucked 20 somethings because they considered us fellow 15 year olds too imature, and they had a point.
Sure, technically speaking, Polanski broke the law. I haven't seen the details of the case, but all this hysteria and outrage seems better suited for criminals who actually rape (in the non-statuatory sense), beat, and kill people.
51
Oh my dear sweet lord.
Seandr: "I haven't seen the details of the case." No shit you haven't. Because if you had, you would have known that the 13-year-old in question was drugged and still repeatedly asked Polanski to stop as he was raping her vaginally and anally. (No need to take my word for it: her testimony is public record.)
Please queue up behind @19 for the burning building.
Seandr: "I haven't seen the details of the case." No shit you haven't. Because if you had, you would have known that the 13-year-old in question was drugged and still repeatedly asked Polanski to stop as he was raping her vaginally and anally. (No need to take my word for it: her testimony is public record.)
Please queue up behind @19 for the burning building.
52
@50, at what age are people ready to have non-consensual sex under the influence of alcohol and quaaludes?
That the crime in question occurred decades ago doesn't make it any less heinous.
That the crime in question occurred decades ago doesn't make it any less heinous.
53
Where do I buy my "TILDA SWINTON: PRO-RAPE" t-shirt?
Same goes for David Lynch, et al.
And for @50: Polanski *admitted* forcing her to have sex against her will, and pounding her 13 year old bung hole when she said she wasn't on birth control. Go read the grand jury testimony: it's public record.
It's rape. It's not a choice, and there's nothing fucking technical about it.
Same goes for David Lynch, et al.
And for @50: Polanski *admitted* forcing her to have sex against her will, and pounding her 13 year old bung hole when she said she wasn't on birth control. Go read the grand jury testimony: it's public record.
It's rape. It's not a choice, and there's nothing fucking technical about it.
54
@19: "controversial filmmaker" is, in my mind, limited to filmmakers who promote ideas antithetical to the power structure in which they operate.
It is not inclusive of those who anally rape a teenager.
My god, can you not make the distinction between the two?
It is not inclusive of those who anally rape a teenager.
My god, can you not make the distinction between the two?
55
Brendan, you know I can be one of your most vocal critics when I think you're off-the-mark, but by the same token, I think it's also my responsibility to back you up when I agree with your position, and in this case you are 100% correct.
It's extremely dismaying to see the outpouring of support for Polanski, as if his skill as an artist were so intrinsically linked to his behavior as a human being that the two cannot somehow be separated and judged accordingly. Yet that is precisely what has been done to other artists (Riefenstahl being the most obvious example) when it has suited society, and in Polanski's case, his artistic achievements cannot in any way be considered mitigating circumstances for the abhorrent actions he took against this young girl.
The simple fact is, he HASN'T suffered for his crime, rather he has lived a comfortable life, enjoyed all the fruits of his artistic success, and until now apparently, never been forced to take responsibility for his alleged crime.
Ms. Geimer's expression of mercy is admirable, but it is also understandable in the context of a woman, now middle-aged, who has had more than 30 years to come to terms with the likelihood that she would never see the man who raped her brought to justice. She has faced the choice of either moving beyond her violation and rebuilding her life, or wallowing in her own sense of victimization and allowing that to poison her entire existence. Wisely she has chosen the former, but that in and of itself does not grant her the power to pardon Polanski; for justice to be truly blind, it must be blind to all, to accuser and accused alike.
Polanski will get his day in court, as is his right. Ms. Geimer will finally see the man she has accused of raping her brought to the bar of justice. According to our laws he will be judged based on the evidence presented, and his guilt or innocence will be determined by a jury of his peers examining that evidence; that's the system we have, and for the most part with occasional lapses (as will be the case with any such institution created by us fallible humans) it works fairly well.
Mr. Polanski is still innocent until proven guilty, but he is most certainly NOT above the law. The Hollywood luminaries who have rushed to his defense would be well advised to keep in mind that he is not being judged for his artistic expression, but rather on his actions as a human being.
More...
It's extremely dismaying to see the outpouring of support for Polanski, as if his skill as an artist were so intrinsically linked to his behavior as a human being that the two cannot somehow be separated and judged accordingly. Yet that is precisely what has been done to other artists (Riefenstahl being the most obvious example) when it has suited society, and in Polanski's case, his artistic achievements cannot in any way be considered mitigating circumstances for the abhorrent actions he took against this young girl.
The simple fact is, he HASN'T suffered for his crime, rather he has lived a comfortable life, enjoyed all the fruits of his artistic success, and until now apparently, never been forced to take responsibility for his alleged crime.
Ms. Geimer's expression of mercy is admirable, but it is also understandable in the context of a woman, now middle-aged, who has had more than 30 years to come to terms with the likelihood that she would never see the man who raped her brought to justice. She has faced the choice of either moving beyond her violation and rebuilding her life, or wallowing in her own sense of victimization and allowing that to poison her entire existence. Wisely she has chosen the former, but that in and of itself does not grant her the power to pardon Polanski; for justice to be truly blind, it must be blind to all, to accuser and accused alike.
Polanski will get his day in court, as is his right. Ms. Geimer will finally see the man she has accused of raping her brought to the bar of justice. According to our laws he will be judged based on the evidence presented, and his guilt or innocence will be determined by a jury of his peers examining that evidence; that's the system we have, and for the most part with occasional lapses (as will be the case with any such institution created by us fallible humans) it works fairly well.
Mr. Polanski is still innocent until proven guilty, but he is most certainly NOT above the law. The Hollywood luminaries who have rushed to his defense would be well advised to keep in mind that he is not being judged for his artistic expression, but rather on his actions as a human being.
56
In what precise sense is Switzerland a "neutral" country? That they are unaligned? That they are not a member of NATO? What the FUCK? These shits are talking about Switzerland like it was a big church where you could yell refuge. That's not what Switzerland has EVER BEEN. Just cause they were neutral in WW2 doesn't mean they are the world's haven for perverts.
The US doesn't extradite people for violations of Sharia law either.
God these people are idiots. There is no special "I'm using my free speech" card to get out of criminal responsibility, much less a "I'm going to a big film festival" card.
I mean, seriously, I can commit any random crime and then if I'm going to give a speech I'm cool until I'm not actively participating in the creation of international film?
The US doesn't extradite people for violations of Sharia law either.
God these people are idiots. There is no special "I'm using my free speech" card to get out of criminal responsibility, much less a "I'm going to a big film festival" card.
I mean, seriously, I can commit any random crime and then if I'm going to give a speech I'm cool until I'm not actively participating in the creation of international film?
57
@ Brendan Kiley: Interesting stylistic choice, to not use the word 'rape' (or 'raping' or 'rapist') even once in this piece. OK, so it's better than people who write about Polanski's "having sex with" a 13-year-old. But why not call it what it is?
58
Comte @ 55 nails it exactly, except for the "innocent til proven guilty" bit - Polanski PLEAD GUILTY already. He's a fugitive because he skipped out on sentencing.
It's interesting to see how many people opine about this without apparently knowing much about the case. I've seen comments from Sloggers I generally agree with and respect write ignorant posts about why this shouldn't be a big deal. I'm not judging the lack of knowledge; although I've heard of the case, it was only after he was finally nabbed in Switzerland that I read the details of what he did and was reminded that he had in fact had his trial. But now that it's all out... People, people, read up before you chime in. Some of you look foolish for what you've said.
It's interesting to see how many people opine about this without apparently knowing much about the case. I've seen comments from Sloggers I generally agree with and respect write ignorant posts about why this shouldn't be a big deal. I'm not judging the lack of knowledge; although I've heard of the case, it was only after he was finally nabbed in Switzerland that I read the details of what he did and was reminded that he had in fact had his trial. But now that it's all out... People, people, read up before you chime in. Some of you look foolish for what you've said.
59
Arresting one of the most famous directors in the world, on his way to a film festival in a neutral country, has the unintentional side effect of being a huge chilling message to controversial filmmakers.
No, just the child rapist fugitive ones.
No-one's trying to arrest Roman for the films he's made (not even 'Pirates'), just for the crimes he's committed.
No, just the child rapist fugitive ones.
No-one's trying to arrest Roman for the films he's made (not even 'Pirates'), just for the crimes he's committed.
60
I thought she told him she was 16? And they were both fucked up on drugs alcohol. It's still creepy I guess. What the fuck was she doing at Jack Nicholson's house?
61
Why don't all you reactionary assholes bitching about the directors who signed that petition point your ire at a much more relevant case:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8…
62
The comment that he should go into the general population in prison and suffer prison justice is utterly barbaric.
we, the noncriminals, have to have a higher standard than the criminals.
it's clear that commenter doesn't consider prison rape rape. i guess because men are the victims? or because if you're a criminal you deserve to be degraded, humiliated, violated and mentally and emotionally disturbed for the rest of your life?
pretty inhumane.
in fact, given that the commenter is speaking of a reality that all of us tolerate, we know about it and do nothing at all to change it, it makes me feel that polanski has good reason to avoid jail.
maybe once we have jails that are not rife with physical violence and crimes, we can get back some moral standing to condemn other nations and other people who wish to make distinctions we do not wish to make in our rage and anger with for some on this thread has gotten out of control.
it is not justice if it's not proportional, if it's not with dignity to the person and if it's cruel and wishing him to be raped repeatedly in prison is cruel.
we, the noncriminals, have to have a higher standard than the criminals.
it's clear that commenter doesn't consider prison rape rape. i guess because men are the victims? or because if you're a criminal you deserve to be degraded, humiliated, violated and mentally and emotionally disturbed for the rest of your life?
pretty inhumane.
in fact, given that the commenter is speaking of a reality that all of us tolerate, we know about it and do nothing at all to change it, it makes me feel that polanski has good reason to avoid jail.
maybe once we have jails that are not rife with physical violence and crimes, we can get back some moral standing to condemn other nations and other people who wish to make distinctions we do not wish to make in our rage and anger with for some on this thread has gotten out of control.
it is not justice if it's not proportional, if it's not with dignity to the person and if it's cruel and wishing him to be raped repeatedly in prison is cruel.
63
He was accused of drugging and raping a 13 year old, of having been a rapist ephebophile. He admitted to consensual sex with minor under age--but only as a part of plea bargain that went bad. We really have no idea what really happened back then and until we do perhaps we should just back off a little.
If he did what she said that he did then we should nail him to the wall. And somehow the agreed upon 90 day psych evaluation doesn't seem a sufficient penalty for ephebophiling. But then I was too young to remember. Perhaps that was the going rate for that sort of crime back then.
If he did what she said that he did then we should nail him to the wall. And somehow the agreed upon 90 day psych evaluation doesn't seem a sufficient penalty for ephebophiling. But then I was too young to remember. Perhaps that was the going rate for that sort of crime back then.
64
"The difficult, dark and ambiguous situation Sean Nelson described so beautifully, with Polanski roaming around outside U.S. borders continuing to film and continuing to fuck, living both with the harm he'd been done and the harm he'd done others including that poor girl, seemed infinitely preferable to setting off another one of our justified-outrage binges."
Yeah, never mind that he drugged and raped someone. I'm too busy waxing poetic about him having no punishment for his actions to worry about what that can mean for future victims of this crime.
And for those who say that the victim has forgiven him so we should, well that incentives harassing a victim until they're willing to make public statements that charges should be dropped.
Yeah, never mind that he drugged and raped someone. I'm too busy waxing poetic about him having no punishment for his actions to worry about what that can mean for future victims of this crime.
And for those who say that the victim has forgiven him so we should, well that incentives harassing a victim until they're willing to make public statements that charges should be dropped.
65
Why not just drop all pretense, get out your pitchforks and torches, and build yourselves a nice set of gallows in the village square, already? This isn't (and never has been) about Justice, it's about vengeance - an ever-so-slightly subtle point that is, as usual, utterly lost on heavy-handed, morally-indignant lynch mobs.
66
@63: We have the victim's uncontested testimony, the perpetrator's guilty plea, and an out of court settlement of a civil suit in the victim's favor. We also have a perpetrator who was released on bail 31 years ago -- while awaiting sentencing following his entry of a guitly plea -- and then illegally fled the country.
Did things happen exactly as the victim has testified? Maybe not. But the way to contest that testimony is in the Los Angeles court in which the charges were filed. These stupid equivocations about "waiting for the full story" and "he's suffered enough already" are just bulwarks against the encroaching cognitive dissonance his supporters are experiencing.
And the psych eval wasn't the punishment. In order for his guilty plea to be accepted, he had to be fit to stand trial. The sentencing for his plea bargain has yet to occur, and that's what he was wanted for.
Did things happen exactly as the victim has testified? Maybe not. But the way to contest that testimony is in the Los Angeles court in which the charges were filed. These stupid equivocations about "waiting for the full story" and "he's suffered enough already" are just bulwarks against the encroaching cognitive dissonance his supporters are experiencing.
And the psych eval wasn't the punishment. In order for his guilty plea to be accepted, he had to be fit to stand trial. The sentencing for his plea bargain has yet to occur, and that's what he was wanted for.
67
@64 All he is convicted of and all that he confessed to is consensual sex with someone under the age. And all he was sentenced to was a 90 day psych evaluation. The drugging and rape charges had their day in court and they were thrown out. (I rather suspect that the shouldn't have been but let's not ride too high of a horse.)
68
@65 You know, forgiveness does not equate an absense of consequences. I forgive my daughter for coloring on the wall, but she stil needs to wash it off. I think it s noble that the victim has chosen to move on and forgive Polanski of the rape, but he still needs to face the consequences of fleeing the country before his sentencing. This has nothing to do with "heavy-handed, morally-indignant lynch mobs". The "subtle" fact is, when you flee the country to avoid the penalties of your crime, you will be brought back to face the consequeces.
69
@65: Yes, it's about justice. And the rule of law applying to all people, whether or not they are Holocaust survivors and/or gifted filmmakers. And the outrage here isn't even about Polanski did (which was clearly wrong, and I think everyone believes that he too knows this), it's about the influential people who think there is something wrong with bringing a violent criminal in front of the court so as be sentenced for the crime he has admitted to.
Seriously, your definition of "lynch mob" is broken.
Seriously, your definition of "lynch mob" is broken.
70
@67: You have your facts wrong, I am afraid. He has never been sentenced. That's why he is wanted. I'm repeating myself.
72
OMG! I'm shocked. Woody Allen signed this? Who would have guessed that he would be ok with drugging and raping a child?
@62,
I'm no fan of prison rape. I think prison officials should do everything they can to stop it. I believe that treating people like humans will reduce recidivism. However, I don't think that the fact that there is prison rape, and beatings and degradation, etc etc is any reason not to send criminals, especially heinous ones like Polanski, to jail.
And, frankly, if he does get raped in jail, I'm not going to feel terribly bad about it.
@62,
I'm no fan of prison rape. I think prison officials should do everything they can to stop it. I believe that treating people like humans will reduce recidivism. However, I don't think that the fact that there is prison rape, and beatings and degradation, etc etc is any reason not to send criminals, especially heinous ones like Polanski, to jail.
And, frankly, if he does get raped in jail, I'm not going to feel terribly bad about it.
73
@ 65 - Why vengeance? I don't know the victim, and I have no emotional connection to the case whatsoever.
You are wrong, wrong, WRONG, this IS about justice (as opposed to vengeance), and the peculiarly American (and, IMO, correct) concept that no one is above the law.
You are wrong, wrong, WRONG, this IS about justice (as opposed to vengeance), and the peculiarly American (and, IMO, correct) concept that no one is above the law.
74
@67 Well enough. But either the trial was a sham, in which case we toss out the confession and conviction, or it wasn't, in which case he had consensual sex with the accuser.
Or we just accept on the face all accusations of rape.
Or we just accept on the face all accusations of rape.
75
@71: Yep. Rape is usually classified as a violent crime. But let's not get hung up on words: it is a serious felony no matter how you look at it. Or do you believe it's okay to drug and rape people? Or maybe not "okay," but "not that terrible"? More like stealing someone's bicycle?
And I'm the one living in a cocoon.
And I'm the one living in a cocoon.
77
@ 74, you make no sense. All of this needs to be hashed out in court, which Polanski has avoided for 32 years.
On the one hand, you pedantically treat the outcome of the trial as though they were the only accurate description of what occured; on the other you bring up unproven allegations of judicial wrongdoing and give them equal weight. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.
On the one hand, you pedantically treat the outcome of the trial as though they were the only accurate description of what occured; on the other you bring up unproven allegations of judicial wrongdoing and give them equal weight. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.
78
Brendan,
I, too am baffled by this petition and some of the defenses of Polanski (Whoopi Goldberg's idiotic "It wasn't a rape-rape" is absolute bullshit). I simply don't understand ANY defense of Polanski's actions (both the rape and his flight/exile to Europe where he hardly suffered all these years).
And, like any reasonable person, I separate the art from the behavior of the artist. There is nary a doubt that Polanski is a gifted filmaker. But, he like anyone else with a similar conviction must do his time. As for the petitioners and other defenders, one can quietly support him and allow justice to take its course but demanding his release openly is just plain hubris.
I, too am baffled by this petition and some of the defenses of Polanski (Whoopi Goldberg's idiotic "It wasn't a rape-rape" is absolute bullshit). I simply don't understand ANY defense of Polanski's actions (both the rape and his flight/exile to Europe where he hardly suffered all these years).
And, like any reasonable person, I separate the art from the behavior of the artist. There is nary a doubt that Polanski is a gifted filmaker. But, he like anyone else with a similar conviction must do his time. As for the petitioners and other defenders, one can quietly support him and allow justice to take its course but demanding his release openly is just plain hubris.
79
the director Luc Besson, who is a friend of Polanski, but who has a daughter, didn't sign it either. Good for him!
At least someone spoke truth to power! where are all of the women in hollywood whom are disgusted by this act? No Julia Roberts, no Kate Winslet, no Gwyneth Paltrow speaking out against child rape. I wish someone had some guts!
At least someone spoke truth to power! where are all of the women in hollywood whom are disgusted by this act? No Julia Roberts, no Kate Winslet, no Gwyneth Paltrow speaking out against child rape. I wish someone had some guts!
80
Reading this article just validates my decision to avoid attending movies at all over the last several years. A bunch of self-important fuckwads crying over one of their own having to take responsibility for what he's done (but ask them about the people downloading movies and music from the Internet and they're all for the gestapo coming in and taking over),
Fuck them all.
My entertainment money will go towards local live theater instead of these nitwits.
Fuck them all.
My entertainment money will go towards local live theater instead of these nitwits.
81
@77 He didn't duck out on the trial, he ducked out of the sentencing and/or sentence. He admitted to and was convicted of consensual but nonetheless illegal sex. But that was part of a plea bargain gone wrong. Now most of the time a plea bargain is about tossing out the bogus charges and the defendant admitting to what really happened. Some of the time, however and now days especially with federal charges, it's about the innocent accepting lesser charge to avoid the hassle and risk. The guilty plea is only valid as a part of bargain. The bargain seems to have gone bust so perhaps we should toss out plea and start over.
But you can't, without doing a great mis-justice claim that because he admitted to a lesser crime he is guilty of the greater crimes of which he was originally accused.
But you can't, without doing a great mis-justice claim that because he admitted to a lesser crime he is guilty of the greater crimes of which he was originally accused.
82
@ 81, as long as the victim's testimony is unchallenged, I can say that he raped a girl, and do neither justice nor the truth any disservice. The legalese doesn't concern me in the least.
Now, unless I'm badly misinformed (and I don't believe that I am), judges have no legal obligation to follow prosecutor recommendations about sentencing. So if the prosecutor and defendant agree to a plea bargain in exchange for, say, time served, the judge can still impose a greater sentence if the crime to which the defendant pleads guilty allows it.
I asked on anther thread, and ask it here, what chicanery the judge was supposed to be up to? I know Polanski fled because he was facing more prison time, in spite of the plea bargain; but what wrongdoing is the judge supposed to have done?
Now, unless I'm badly misinformed (and I don't believe that I am), judges have no legal obligation to follow prosecutor recommendations about sentencing. So if the prosecutor and defendant agree to a plea bargain in exchange for, say, time served, the judge can still impose a greater sentence if the crime to which the defendant pleads guilty allows it.
I asked on anther thread, and ask it here, what chicanery the judge was supposed to be up to? I know Polanski fled because he was facing more prison time, in spite of the plea bargain; but what wrongdoing is the judge supposed to have done?
83
@78, it's unfortunate that Whoopi was so inarticulate that her point was lost on a lot of people. Rape runs the gamut from doing something really stupid when you're drunk to being a sadistic, sociopathic predator. All the evidence indicates that Polanski's case falls into the former category. So let's stop treating him like he broke into her home, beat her up, "rape-raped" her then threatened to kill her if she told anyone.
He thought she was older, he shared his drugs with her, and it turned into a nightmare for both of them. This crime bears a lesser penalty, and lots of people think he's paid his due.
@79, speaking out against child rape doesn't really take a lot of guts unless you're a Catholic priest. You want to see what takes guts, try defending a convicted rapist from an angry mob.
He thought she was older, he shared his drugs with her, and it turned into a nightmare for both of them. This crime bears a lesser penalty, and lots of people think he's paid his due.
@79, speaking out against child rape doesn't really take a lot of guts unless you're a Catholic priest. You want to see what takes guts, try defending a convicted rapist from an angry mob.
84
58:
Thank you for the clarification; it's been more than 30 years since Polanski's original trial, and I frankly haven't been as diligent in terms of reviewing the details as I probably should have been.
Notwithstanding this, however, I think my main point is still valid: the members of the film community who have been so eager to rush to Polanski's defense seem to have done so based on a flawed perception that it is his artistic expression that is somehow under attack here, and not his heinous act, which as you point out, he has already gone on record as admitting.
Thank you for the clarification; it's been more than 30 years since Polanski's original trial, and I frankly haven't been as diligent in terms of reviewing the details as I probably should have been.
Notwithstanding this, however, I think my main point is still valid: the members of the film community who have been so eager to rush to Polanski's defense seem to have done so based on a flawed perception that it is his artistic expression that is somehow under attack here, and not his heinous act, which as you point out, he has already gone on record as admitting.
85
Posted by Karla.
He fucked a kid, maybe he's a better person now, who fucking cares...If a child molester who didn't make films fled the country and was captured 30 years later, do you think ANY of these people would give a shit? Other than maybe to throw a benefit concert in the VICTIM'S honor, rather than the rapist's?
Right on Karla, my son was 22 when he dated a 15 year old. No one cared. It was O.K with her family too, even after she gave birth to a healthy little boy, everything was O.K. We all love that boy. They even got married. All was fine until the state got a complaint from the hospital when the child was taken to emergency about the child's mother being under aged and he was charged with statutory rape. He was facing up to twenty years so he panicked and fled the state. After a year and a half he returned to the state where he was charged and was subsequently and arrested. He ended up getting a sixteen year sentence even though they were married for four years by time of sentencing. Is anyone going to start signing a petition for my son? He didn't rape the girl; they were dating and it was consensual sex, unlike Polanski who drugged and raped a thirteen year old. And my son was 22 years old not 40 something like Polanski. I guess the laws are different for someone with celebrity status versus a poor kid whose family can't afford top notch lawyers a la Polanski. And since he is not black Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are not interested in promoting his cause. Believe me I tried to get them involved! So now he sits in jail. Four years have gone by and for what reason? Antiquated state laws need to be changed. A family has been destroyed by the state. My grandson is being raised without his dad or his mom for that matter as the child's maternal grandparents are raising him as the mom is not capable. Will someone be willing to start a petition to release my son or raise some funds for a good lawyer? The sentence is more criminal than the act! How sad! To read the whole story read this link: www.whatpricejustice.com
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He fucked a kid, maybe he's a better person now, who fucking cares...If a child molester who didn't make films fled the country and was captured 30 years later, do you think ANY of these people would give a shit? Other than maybe to throw a benefit concert in the VICTIM'S honor, rather than the rapist's?
Right on Karla, my son was 22 when he dated a 15 year old. No one cared. It was O.K with her family too, even after she gave birth to a healthy little boy, everything was O.K. We all love that boy. They even got married. All was fine until the state got a complaint from the hospital when the child was taken to emergency about the child's mother being under aged and he was charged with statutory rape. He was facing up to twenty years so he panicked and fled the state. After a year and a half he returned to the state where he was charged and was subsequently and arrested. He ended up getting a sixteen year sentence even though they were married for four years by time of sentencing. Is anyone going to start signing a petition for my son? He didn't rape the girl; they were dating and it was consensual sex, unlike Polanski who drugged and raped a thirteen year old. And my son was 22 years old not 40 something like Polanski. I guess the laws are different for someone with celebrity status versus a poor kid whose family can't afford top notch lawyers a la Polanski. And since he is not black Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are not interested in promoting his cause. Believe me I tried to get them involved! So now he sits in jail. Four years have gone by and for what reason? Antiquated state laws need to be changed. A family has been destroyed by the state. My grandson is being raised without his dad or his mom for that matter as the child's maternal grandparents are raising him as the mom is not capable. Will someone be willing to start a petition to release my son or raise some funds for a good lawyer? The sentence is more criminal than the act! How sad! To read the whole story read this link: www.whatpricejustice.com
86
@82 Ex parte communication with the prosecution. Please clarify your position. Do you believe:
- That he is merely guilty of ephebophilia.
- That the confession of ephebophilia means that he is also guilty of drugging and raping?
- The trial has nothing to do with it, he guilty because a woman says so.
- That he is merely guilty of ephebophilia.
- That the confession of ephebophilia means that he is also guilty of drugging and raping?
- The trial has nothing to do with it, he guilty because a woman says so.
87
@ 86, thank you. Now that we have that out of the way, let's focus on what matters (and what matters is NOT the questions you just posed): why someone with the vast legal resources of a top Hollywood director would flee rather than fight? Was he really so far up shit creek that chicanery like this could not have been fought?
88
@15 It makes no difference what the age of consent was for Polanski wherever he grew up. In the US at the time of his crime, the age of consent was not 13. Like it makes no difference if I'm arrested for smoking a spliff in Turkey and try to say "But it's decriminalized in Seattle!"
It also wouldn't matter if she had consented unequivocally. She was still underage.
And of course in this case she did not consent. So he's wrong on both counts. The girl didn't consent. The girl was underage.
I was very disappointed in the names on this list. I've interviewed Wim Wenders, Jonathan Demme, David Lynch. I'm now around Polanski's age when he raped this girl. If I drug and rape a 13 year old, would any of them come to my defense? I doubt it.
@83 She said NO! More than once! According to her testimony. What don't you understand about that? He didn't "share" his drugs; he forced them on her! She went along because she said she was frightened of him. Again according to her testimony. There's no bloody "gamut" as far as rape is concerned. It's either rape, or it isn't. I shouldn't get off because I committed a "stupid drunk" rape as opposed to a "sociopathic" rape. It's still rape! My god, I'd be frightened to left alone in a room w/you. It's a good thing you posted under a pseudonym as I would never, ever allow my children to be near you.
And how the hell did he pay his due? He skipped out on his sentencing! As far as I know, he's never starved; he's been able to have homes in different countries; he can afford the the best health care; he has a family; he has been able to work at something he likes and get well paid for it. Boy, if that was my punishment for a crime, getting all that and just not being able to visit the US and some other places, sign me up.
I'm just sick to death of living in a country, in a world that thinks it's okay for women to be treated like shit. Which is what I feel you are doing. I think it's important to make a statement to say no, it's not okay to treat people like this. He has to come back and face the music. He's never paid his due; he never paid shit. At the sentencing, then would be the time for the lawyers to ask for a lesser sentence, to submit a statement from the victim, etc., which the judge would take into consideration.
If he came forward, didn't fight extradition, made a statement like "What I did was very wrong. And I was wrong to leave before sentencing. I want to make up for that and atone for my mistakes," and came back and got a suspended sentence, probation, paying a huge fine, I'd be okay w/that. I don't know what the average sentence was for sex w/a minor in those days, or what the average sentence was for leaving before sentencing. I don't think he should necessarily be thrown in prison for the rest of his life. But he hasn't paid for his crime. He thought he could treat women like dirt and get away with it. I don't think he should.
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It also wouldn't matter if she had consented unequivocally. She was still underage.
And of course in this case she did not consent. So he's wrong on both counts. The girl didn't consent. The girl was underage.
I was very disappointed in the names on this list. I've interviewed Wim Wenders, Jonathan Demme, David Lynch. I'm now around Polanski's age when he raped this girl. If I drug and rape a 13 year old, would any of them come to my defense? I doubt it.
@83 She said NO! More than once! According to her testimony. What don't you understand about that? He didn't "share" his drugs; he forced them on her! She went along because she said she was frightened of him. Again according to her testimony. There's no bloody "gamut" as far as rape is concerned. It's either rape, or it isn't. I shouldn't get off because I committed a "stupid drunk" rape as opposed to a "sociopathic" rape. It's still rape! My god, I'd be frightened to left alone in a room w/you. It's a good thing you posted under a pseudonym as I would never, ever allow my children to be near you.
And how the hell did he pay his due? He skipped out on his sentencing! As far as I know, he's never starved; he's been able to have homes in different countries; he can afford the the best health care; he has a family; he has been able to work at something he likes and get well paid for it. Boy, if that was my punishment for a crime, getting all that and just not being able to visit the US and some other places, sign me up.
I'm just sick to death of living in a country, in a world that thinks it's okay for women to be treated like shit. Which is what I feel you are doing. I think it's important to make a statement to say no, it's not okay to treat people like this. He has to come back and face the music. He's never paid his due; he never paid shit. At the sentencing, then would be the time for the lawyers to ask for a lesser sentence, to submit a statement from the victim, etc., which the judge would take into consideration.
If he came forward, didn't fight extradition, made a statement like "What I did was very wrong. And I was wrong to leave before sentencing. I want to make up for that and atone for my mistakes," and came back and got a suspended sentence, probation, paying a huge fine, I'd be okay w/that. I don't know what the average sentence was for sex w/a minor in those days, or what the average sentence was for leaving before sentencing. I don't think he should necessarily be thrown in prison for the rest of his life. But he hasn't paid for his crime. He thought he could treat women like dirt and get away with it. I don't think he should.
89
@50
Ok, thanks for the link. Go ahead and burn him.
And me, too (in the figurative internet sense).
Ok, thanks for the link. Go ahead and burn him.
And me, too (in the figurative internet sense).
90
You want to blame his arrest on someone, start with the breakdown of Swiss impartiality not on the ‘puritan’ laws of the US.
The Swiss government is so fearful that the UBS scandal will force them to change their banking rules and their credibility as a protected banking center. This is far more important to them than their position of neutrality in other areas—including law international law enforcement. As far as they are concerned, arresting Polanski is a show of good faith that will help ease the pressure to expose information about US account holders.
I am willing to bet that at least a handful of the signers have accounts in Switzerland. I am sure if they were to make this correlation, they would pipe down right quick.
The Swiss government is so fearful that the UBS scandal will force them to change their banking rules and their credibility as a protected banking center. This is far more important to them than their position of neutrality in other areas—including law international law enforcement. As far as they are concerned, arresting Polanski is a show of good faith that will help ease the pressure to expose information about US account holders.
I am willing to bet that at least a handful of the signers have accounts in Switzerland. I am sure if they were to make this correlation, they would pipe down right quick.
91
Tilda Swinton was one of the people who signed the Polanski petition. How anyone can defend someone who plied a 13 year-old child with drugs and alcohol and then raped her is shocking to begin with, but made even more so given the fact that she is a parent, who happens to have a daughter. Swinton played the part of the evil witch in The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Now we know why she was so convincing in that role; she was just being herself.
92
@86 Why would a Holocaust survivor run when his trial starts to look a little suspect? I couldn't say. That he was wrong to flee I didn't and wouldn't say. That you can't call him a child drugger and raper I do say.
93
Well, then, let's let him off the hook! He survived the Holocaust! Hey, you're above due process now!
Thanks for playing, Teredo. You nut.
Thanks for playing, Teredo. You nut.
94
@92 As I wrote above, I'm not letting him off the hook for fleeing. But let's not hang him on any other hooks that he doesn't deserve. And if he did do what he was accused of doing then let us hang him high. But since he was found guilty but not guilty of drugging and raping you can only call him ephebophile and fugitive. And you have to admit, while not excusable the fugitive part does make a little sense.
95
Teredo, you can speak about the facts of the case without compromising what he actually admitted at his arraignment. It makes little sense that all this went down because he's an ephebophile and not a rapist.
I once got pulled over for running a red light while going nearly 49 mph in a 30 zone. I was 19 and decided to go to court for some dumb reason. By the time of my appearance I wasn't sure what I was going to say, but the judge just offered me a plea bargain on the spot: doing 33 in a 30 zone. I took it.
If I follow your logic, all I did was speed, and not excessively at that; but I did run that red light, and I was going faster than 33. Am I somehow wrong to say that?
Unless there's any reason to doubt the girl's testimony, I am accepting it as fact; so is any other reasonable person, and any reasonable person is going to take into account these other factors: That over 32 years no one has ever given any reason to cast doubt on the girl's testimony; that innocent people with vast legal resources seldom if ever accept plea bargains and plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit, or flee the country rather than fight if the case takes a turn like this. The fugitive part only makes sense if he is in fact guilty of the things the girl stated.
I once got pulled over for running a red light while going nearly 49 mph in a 30 zone. I was 19 and decided to go to court for some dumb reason. By the time of my appearance I wasn't sure what I was going to say, but the judge just offered me a plea bargain on the spot: doing 33 in a 30 zone. I took it.
If I follow your logic, all I did was speed, and not excessively at that; but I did run that red light, and I was going faster than 33. Am I somehow wrong to say that?
Unless there's any reason to doubt the girl's testimony, I am accepting it as fact; so is any other reasonable person, and any reasonable person is going to take into account these other factors: That over 32 years no one has ever given any reason to cast doubt on the girl's testimony; that innocent people with vast legal resources seldom if ever accept plea bargains and plead guilty to crimes they didn't commit, or flee the country rather than fight if the case takes a turn like this. The fugitive part only makes sense if he is in fact guilty of the things the girl stated.
96
@95 But we do have reason to doubt the girl's testimony. We have a system in place to evaluate those claims. And as imperfect as that system is that system tossed aside the worst of the allegations.
And why would he flee from rape charges that were just dropped?
You are left with this, a young woman has alleged rape. Unless you want to just accept all rape claims at face value, you don't have much to stand on.
And why would he flee from rape charges that were just dropped?
You are left with this, a young woman has alleged rape. Unless you want to just accept all rape claims at face value, you don't have much to stand on.
97
Did the Coens actively not sign the petition, or were they just not approached to sign it?
Regardless, that list is pretty fucking heartbreaking.
Regardless, that list is pretty fucking heartbreaking.
98
legally or morally, its not our place to judge. please understand i don't care if jack nicholson's girlfriend filmed the whole thing. we don't know the girl and we don't know polanski so its not our place to judge the situation. if the social contract was broken, it an issue to be resolved between polanski and the girl/her parents. no room for you or me.
polanski is a producer of value. just like a master surgeon. and my only hope is that in resolving a breach of social contract, all artisans be permitted to continue practicing their craft.
and in breaking news, the 13 year old girl no longer cares. so stop being offended on the behalf of other people! its pathetic.
http://tr.im/At8z
polanski is a producer of value. just like a master surgeon. and my only hope is that in resolving a breach of social contract, all artisans be permitted to continue practicing their craft.
and in breaking news, the 13 year old girl no longer cares. so stop being offended on the behalf of other people! its pathetic.
http://tr.im/At8z
99
@98: The social contract may or may not have been violated. What is at issue is that Polanski himself acknowledged that he violated the laws of the place in which he was residing. The civil matter has indeed been resolved, and I'm glad that the victim has attained peace.
The criminal matter is separate from the civil one. It is not concerned with consoling or compensating the victim, but with discouraging through punishment those types of behavior that society deems criminal.
The criminal matter is separate from the civil one. It is not concerned with consoling or compensating the victim, but with discouraging through punishment those types of behavior that society deems criminal.
101
Lee@98 - you're not fooling anybody. Your sort just want to see Polanski's tadger get slammed in a door.
Presumably on pay-per-view.
Presumably on pay-per-view.
102
What's interesting to me is that until recently the dominant cultural narrative has been one of "Polanski as victim of legal system and puritanical American morals." What changed? The facts of the case are the same as they always were but now people are lusting for his blood. What's the cause of this shift?
Much like seandr I never knew the girl was under the influence of drugs or that the sex was nonconsensual. Why didn't we (or most of my thirty-something friends) know this?
The one thing I will say: Can everyone get off Tilda's back? Just because she's a woman she doesn't have some special obligation to be more outraged.
Much like seandr I never knew the girl was under the influence of drugs or that the sex was nonconsensual. Why didn't we (or most of my thirty-something friends) know this?
The one thing I will say: Can everyone get off Tilda's back? Just because she's a woman she doesn't have some special obligation to be more outraged.
103
Why didn't we (or most of my thirty-something friends) know this?
Because you were apparently too lazy to do even the smallest bit of research. The facts of this case have been on the public record for decades.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=roman+polanski%27s+…
Because you were apparently too lazy to do even the smallest bit of research. The facts of this case have been on the public record for decades.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=roman+polanski%27s+…
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@96 "You are left with this, a young woman has alleged rape."
No, he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor and admitted in his plea transcript to knowing that she was only 13 years-old, which is under the age of consent for California. The victim stated in her grand jury testimony that she told him "no" many times. But whether or not you believe her is irrelevant; statutory rape is still RAPE.
No, he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor and admitted in his plea transcript to knowing that she was only 13 years-old, which is under the age of consent for California. The victim stated in her grand jury testimony that she told him "no" many times. But whether or not you believe her is irrelevant; statutory rape is still RAPE.
105
In the spirit of deviltry, here are more echoes for your chamber:
Utne trumpets Chris Rock and Katha Pollitt inveighing against petition signers:
http://www.utne.com/Media/Chris-Rock-Kat…
Turns out Bernard-Henri Levy got a whole 'nother "let him go" petition underway a few days ago. Among the signers are Milan Kundera, Isabelle Huppert, Soderbergh, Mike Nichols, and my 2009 "sexiest man who ever was born" titleholder Louis Garrel:
http://www.altfg.com/blog/politics/adjan…
Utne trumpets Chris Rock and Katha Pollitt inveighing against petition signers:
http://www.utne.com/Media/Chris-Rock-Kat…
Turns out Bernard-Henri Levy got a whole 'nother "let him go" petition underway a few days ago. Among the signers are Milan Kundera, Isabelle Huppert, Soderbergh, Mike Nichols, and my 2009 "sexiest man who ever was born" titleholder Louis Garrel:
http://www.altfg.com/blog/politics/adjan…
107
@104: What I mean by that is: Statutory rape is a complicated thing and depends on prosecutor, state, and country. I think conflating "nonconsensual sex" and "sex with a minor" causes problems. Polanski was guilty of both.
108
With the vast resources of the US Government, it has taken 32 years to bring Polanski - presumably - to justice. Comparatively, by the year 2033 maybe we'll have snatched Osama bin Laden by luring him to a film festival in Bergen-Belsen. It's good to understand (if not entirely agree with) our legal system's priorities.
109
@ 106 Like when a 15 year old boy "rapes" a 15 year old girl?
How does that apply here? Roman Polanski was certainly not 15 at the time. He was in his 40's. Besides, statutory rape generally refers to sex involving an adult and a minor.
How does that apply here? Roman Polanski was certainly not 15 at the time. He was in his 40's. Besides, statutory rape generally refers to sex involving an adult and a minor.
110
@104: I just meant saying "statutory rape is still RAPE" (emphasis yours) leaves out some of the complexity associated with that. Statutory rape has everything to do with local cultural mores, beliefs about age of maturity, and the proper age difference between partners. What you seemed to be saying was that both were equally bad, which I think is a problematic statement.
111
Very disappointed to see Lynch's name on this list, but on the contrary, nice not to see Jim Jarmusch, Werner Herzog, Aki Kaurismaki, and Terrence Malick on it...
113
I was curious about what Samantha Geimer might have looked like in 1977, and did a Google search and found this: http://ucelebz.com/samantha-geimer-pictu….
Roman Polanski is a sick fucking fuck.
Roman Polanski is a sick fucking fuck.
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@113 My God, she's a baby. Everyone who has eroneously suggested that he thought she was older needs to see this picture.
115
@110. That's an issue for the court to decide at sentencing. Robbing a store at gunpoint is illegal. But if it's yr first offense of this type, and you have no other criminal history, a good lawyer can probably get you less time than a person who commits the exact same crime but has done it before, has a history, etc.
Having sex w/a 15 year old girl is illegal. If yr her 15 year old boyfriend, and it was consensual, you could plead for a lesser sentence, and prob be more successful than if you were her 30 year old boyfriend (a prosecutor could say that certainly a 30 year old should be old enough to know better).
In some of the many stories I've read, Polanski was indeed charged w/the more serious crimes ("rape-rape" in Whoopi Goldberg's definition), but the deal was he'd plead to a lesser charge of sex w/a minor, so that the minor could avoid going to trial.
It was really dumb for him to have left. Even if he had got an "extraordinary" sentence, his lawyers were right there to file appeals, and it prob would be all over by now.
Having sex w/a 15 year old girl is illegal. If yr her 15 year old boyfriend, and it was consensual, you could plead for a lesser sentence, and prob be more successful than if you were her 30 year old boyfriend (a prosecutor could say that certainly a 30 year old should be old enough to know better).
In some of the many stories I've read, Polanski was indeed charged w/the more serious crimes ("rape-rape" in Whoopi Goldberg's definition), but the deal was he'd plead to a lesser charge of sex w/a minor, so that the minor could avoid going to trial.
It was really dumb for him to have left. Even if he had got an "extraordinary" sentence, his lawyers were right there to file appeals, and it prob would be all over by now.
116
I ultimately don't object to the arrest, despite some (minor) misgivings about the circumstances. I agree that everyone who signed that petition is misguided.
That said, a boycott on the artists on that list is a boycott on cinema (I challenge anyone to find more than a dozen good films from the last three decades that didn't involve someone on that list). I agree with Kiley, but disagree with Nelson--the work is the work, and I'll continue to support and enjoy it despite the misguided, or even criminal, acts of its architects and builders.
As for Polanski, throw the book at 'im. I'll still likely be renting Repulsion (again) soon.
That said, a boycott on the artists on that list is a boycott on cinema (I challenge anyone to find more than a dozen good films from the last three decades that didn't involve someone on that list). I agree with Kiley, but disagree with Nelson--the work is the work, and I'll continue to support and enjoy it despite the misguided, or even criminal, acts of its architects and builders.
As for Polanski, throw the book at 'im. I'll still likely be renting Repulsion (again) soon.
117
@ 110 jiqae
Stop trying to cloud the issue by arguing semantics. The only thing that matters is that the crime happened in California, where it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor under the age of consent. We have laws for a reason and this one is to protect children from being taken advantage of sexually by amoral adults. The victim testified that she repeatly told Polanski “no” , “stop” and “to get away”. She has stated that the sex was never consensual. At the very least, Polanski pleaded guilty to statutory rape, which is essentially raping a child. How is that not rape?
Stop trying to cloud the issue by arguing semantics. The only thing that matters is that the crime happened in California, where it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor under the age of consent. We have laws for a reason and this one is to protect children from being taken advantage of sexually by amoral adults. The victim testified that she repeatly told Polanski “no” , “stop” and “to get away”. She has stated that the sex was never consensual. At the very least, Polanski pleaded guilty to statutory rape, which is essentially raping a child. How is that not rape?
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@117: I'm arguing that the RAPE part is the important part, not the "statutory" part. I agree that he raped her and that he should be prosecuted for that, but I think the argument is weakened when we focus on the age difference. Especially as the age of consent goes up and down depending on state/year/desire to prosecute. The real crime is that she said no and he did it anyway.
119
I also think we should settle this soon. As one of my friend pointed out "If this is about justice for the victim, than we should settle this as quickly as possible and let her get on with her life."
Let's put him in jail or not put him in jail, but either way end the issue and the resulting media circus, and let her finally have some real closure.
Let's put him in jail or not put him in jail, but either way end the issue and the resulting media circus, and let her finally have some real closure.
121
@ 119, If the victim wants her feelings entered into the court record and taken into account by the judge, she can testify at Polanski's sentencing. Beyond that, it's out of her hands, because justice is about all of us, not just the parties involved in a crime.
122
@121: That, sir, is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. I'm sure you're just as victimized by the attack as she was. Let's prolong the trial and coverage until YOU feel the scales are balanced.
And yes, as someone else said, we should definitely put the proceedings on pay-per-view so everyone can get their fill of atrocity porn.
And yes, as someone else said, we should definitely put the proceedings on pay-per-view so everyone can get their fill of atrocity porn.
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@122: Or maybe some sort of Taliban-style public stoning? We can have a lottery for who gets to throw the first stone! It really does take a village to mete out vengean... I mean "justice."
Is the point of this to punish him? Make restitution to her? To prevent further crime by the perpetrator? To serve as an example to others who might consider similar actions? Or is it just an attempt to make us all feel "safe" by giving us the illusion that we live in a controllable logical world where every action has consequences and no "bad guy" goes unpunished?
Is the point of this to punish him? Make restitution to her? To prevent further crime by the perpetrator? To serve as an example to others who might consider similar actions? Or is it just an attempt to make us all feel "safe" by giving us the illusion that we live in a controllable logical world where every action has consequences and no "bad guy" goes unpunished?
124
@122: No, Matt's point is correct, although phrased a little awkwardly. First, the victim in this case has already said she forgives Polanski, and has requested that the charges be dropped. The reason that shouldn't happen is because the criminal justice system is much more focused on discouraging crime by making the threat of punishment real and formidable.
The civil law system -- as bad as its reputation is among the general public -- is really where victims can go to get their injuries redressed. A law student friend of mine used to say that criminal law hardly cares about the victim except as a source of evidence. In other words, the whole process is focused on punishing the perpetrator, and not on providing anything for the victim.
Of course, a lot of victims do get something (intangible and emotional) out of seeing their abuser punished, but that is not the goal of the law: the goal of criminal law is to dissuade people from committing crimes by making the consequences serious. And yes, that is about society as a whole, and not about the individual victims.
The civil law system -- as bad as its reputation is among the general public -- is really where victims can go to get their injuries redressed. A law student friend of mine used to say that criminal law hardly cares about the victim except as a source of evidence. In other words, the whole process is focused on punishing the perpetrator, and not on providing anything for the victim.
Of course, a lot of victims do get something (intangible and emotional) out of seeing their abuser punished, but that is not the goal of the law: the goal of criminal law is to dissuade people from committing crimes by making the consequences serious. And yes, that is about society as a whole, and not about the individual victims.
125
You're young. Ask yourself in 30 years what you think of the person you were now. No comments will change your mind. 30 years will.
126
@touting prison rape is shameless barbarism: Fine. I'll go back to my initial stance and say those who rape or molest should face the death penalty. That better for you?
127
Well that settles it- from now on, the sentence for drugging and raping a 13 year old girl will be exile for 30 years. You can still have several mansions and a family, but no visits to the Grand Canyon for you!
Justice Served!
Justice Served!
128
And to those who argue that his sentence should be lessened because "the victim has forgiven him"- seriously, how could she not have come to that conclusion and still lived her life for 30 years? Can you imagine living with that sort of guilt and pain for 30 years with no conclusion? Eventually she'd have to let it go to keep her sanity. That doesn't mean his punishment should be absolved as well.
129
There' an online petition asking for Polanski to be treated as an ordinary citizen and to face his crime and for officials to stop trying to interfere:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/polan…
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/polan…
130
There' an online petition asking for Polanski to be treated as an ordinary citizen and to face his crime and for officials to stop trying to interfere:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/polan…
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/polan…
133
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/polan…
http://www.ipetitions.com/peti
tion/polanski/index.html
http://www.ipetitions.com/peti
tion/polanski/index.html
134
SORRY, PROPER CLICKABLE LINK TO THE POLANSKI PETITION HERE:
There' an online petition asking for Polanski to be treated as an ordinary citizen and to face his crime and for officials to stop trying to interfere:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/polan…
There' an online petition asking for Polanski to be treated as an ordinary citizen and to face his crime and for officials to stop trying to interfere:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/polan…
136
I note a lot of disappointment about David Lynch, but a fan must know: he's kind of a credulous dummy. I love his films, and his personality and expression and sense of humor. But politically? Ideologically? He's a big dummy. The only in-depth interview I've seen had him expressing Truther sympathies. Transcendental Meditation is a fuckin' con job (maybe it's nice, but why does everyone who wants it broadly taught also want money for it?). I've even heard he's a Republican.
Separate the art from the artist - More difficult the more public the artist is, but all too often a necessity. BTWs, I even liked The Ninth Gate and Inland Empire (but not enough to all-caps it).
Separate the art from the artist - More difficult the more public the artist is, but all too often a necessity. BTWs, I even liked The Ninth Gate and Inland Empire (but not enough to all-caps it).
137
I just watched the latest Real Time with Bill Maher, Maher brought this subject up and he thinks this is fucked up too. Janeane Garofalo was on Real Time this (friday) night, she made the good point that not all of hollywood thinks alike as many of us tend to think
Disappointing yet I bet it is harder for a lot of these people to not support Polanski, having known him, been friends with him, etc. Sketchy though that these people have felt close to him, even after the fact that he raped a tween.
One terrible thing about all this news is, the (christian) right now gets to jump up and down, yelling, you see! you see! these hollywood liberal scum have NO MORALS, they would even stoop this low!!
Disappointing yet I bet it is harder for a lot of these people to not support Polanski, having known him, been friends with him, etc. Sketchy though that these people have felt close to him, even after the fact that he raped a tween.
One terrible thing about all this news is, the (christian) right now gets to jump up and down, yelling, you see! you see! these hollywood liberal scum have NO MORALS, they would even stoop this low!!
138
So, we can go after priests 30-40 years after the fact for their abuses, but not film directors?
139
A lot of this sounds an awful lot like the sort of mad, shrieking, ninnified obsession of some straights with the 'gross' mechanics of gay sex. To them it doesn't matter what great things a person has done –further science, create great works of art, save lives– because when they go home they put their ding-dongs in another man's butt, and as we all know BUTTS ARE FOR SHITTING NOT FOR PENISES, right? Eeek!
The repeated incantation of "drugged and raped a 13 year old" is being used in the same way here: to undercut any rational discussion of the broader implications of this case. It doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks (least of all the principals in the matter) because it's easier to be lurid than lucid...
...just like fag haters, anti-abortionists, and ninnies.
The repeated incantation of "drugged and raped a 13 year old" is being used in the same way here: to undercut any rational discussion of the broader implications of this case. It doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks (least of all the principals in the matter) because it's easier to be lurid than lucid...
...just like fag haters, anti-abortionists, and ninnies.
140
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article…
I was disappointed to see that, in fact, Ethan Coen has signed on to defend this child rapist.
I was disappointed to see that, in fact, Ethan Coen has signed on to defend this child rapist.
142
I want David Lynch to be detained in Switzerland and extradited for crimes against cinema. Exhibit A: "Blue Velvet". That horrendous phial or malodorous pus is a degradation of the act of watching a film.
I can't believe that the Polanski thing is subject to debate. WTF? He raped a 13 year old. People, he raped a 13 year old. Did you hear me? I said raped. Get it? For fuck's sake...
I can't believe that the Polanski thing is subject to debate. WTF? He raped a 13 year old. People, he raped a 13 year old. Did you hear me? I said raped. Get it? For fuck's sake...
143
@ 15 -- the age of consent in Europe when Polanski was born was 13? Who cares? He wasn't in Europe. He's a very intelligent and worldly man, he's not the retarded foreign cousin from Perfect Strangers who doesn't know any of the customs. He knew what he was doing was wrong. This guy should have the book thrown at him and I don't know why anyone is defending him. It's like saying OJ shouldn't have to go to court for killing his wife cause he was a great football player.
144
We are seeing before our eyes, so to speak, the movement of an entire layer of the upper-middle class to the right. There are those in the circles in and around Salon, the Nation and the rest of the liberal media who are merely stupid, to be frank, and easily duped. Remarkably, the anti-Polanski campaign has become yet another opportunity for liberal and ex-left elements to accommodate themselves to the right and return to the respectable fold.No one should forget that the attack on the artistic community in the late 1940s and early 1950s in the name of the “American way of life” and the struggle against “godless communism” had incalculable consequences for intellectual and artistic life in America that have still not been overcome.
When the vast majority is outraged by the bank bailout and the deepening suffering, the Polanski case conveniently diverts energy and attention away from the fundamental economic and political issues. The media coverage has an unstated subtext designed for the politically confused and uneducated: “We know you are angry about the bankers, about the politicians, about jobs, health care, education, the war in Afghanistan, etc. But you can’t do anything about those things. Here is something where you can add your voice of outrage, where you can be on the winning side and the side of the majority, and do something positive for the sake of your family, your children.”
Again, we will point out, the outraged middle class feminists and liberals demand their pound of flesh from Polanski while the real criminals in America—CIA and military torturers and killers—go free.
When the vast majority is outraged by the bank bailout and the deepening suffering, the Polanski case conveniently diverts energy and attention away from the fundamental economic and political issues. The media coverage has an unstated subtext designed for the politically confused and uneducated: “We know you are angry about the bankers, about the politicians, about jobs, health care, education, the war in Afghanistan, etc. But you can’t do anything about those things. Here is something where you can add your voice of outrage, where you can be on the winning side and the side of the majority, and do something positive for the sake of your family, your children.”
Again, we will point out, the outraged middle class feminists and liberals demand their pound of flesh from Polanski while the real criminals in America—CIA and military torturers and killers—go free.
145
Polanski isn't being imprisoned because of the rape he committed. If this were the case, he would have been apprehended many, many years ago.
Whilst what Polanski did was appalling, though I believe it is not uncommon in high society circles -and more to the point, the victim feels that a civil suit has resolved this some time ago. She has requested that all charges be dropped.
The real issue is the release of the film 'Ghost' which Polanski has been working on. It was due for release at the end of this year and has now been shelved. There are people with power and influence who do not wish ordinary people to see and consider the information presented in this film.
Or indeed to consider real events such as the blatant lies we were told by Blair and Bush to start the war in Iraq.
We should all be very concerned about the enormous efforts being made to suppress this film - in a supposedly 'free' society.
I would recommend that everyone read the book - to determine what this case is really all about.
Whilst what Polanski did was appalling, though I believe it is not uncommon in high society circles -and more to the point, the victim feels that a civil suit has resolved this some time ago. She has requested that all charges be dropped.
The real issue is the release of the film 'Ghost' which Polanski has been working on. It was due for release at the end of this year and has now been shelved. There are people with power and influence who do not wish ordinary people to see and consider the information presented in this film.
Or indeed to consider real events such as the blatant lies we were told by Blair and Bush to start the war in Iraq.
We should all be very concerned about the enormous efforts being made to suppress this film - in a supposedly 'free' society.
I would recommend that everyone read the book - to determine what this case is really all about.
146
@139
Actually, no. Nothing wrong with consensual buttsex between adults, regardless if it's gay or hetero or any mix thereof.
Pretty much everything wrong with a middle aged man forcibly doing it to a 13 year old child he drugged and got drunk, even as she's saying no.
Your theory that this has anything to do with "straight revulsion with butt sex" is utterly ridiculous. What's next, you're gonna defend NAMBLA, and say people's outrage at this organization is because it's a proponent of male/male pedophilia, rather than male/female pedophilia?
Actually, no. Nothing wrong with consensual buttsex between adults, regardless if it's gay or hetero or any mix thereof.
Pretty much everything wrong with a middle aged man forcibly doing it to a 13 year old child he drugged and got drunk, even as she's saying no.
Your theory that this has anything to do with "straight revulsion with butt sex" is utterly ridiculous. What's next, you're gonna defend NAMBLA, and say people's outrage at this organization is because it's a proponent of male/male pedophilia, rather than male/female pedophilia?
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