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News & ArtsThursday, October 1, 2009
Politics "Elect More And Better Democrats"
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Looks like we finally did it.
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Remember: all the Republicans boohooing for an apology from Rep. Alan Grayson are the same assholes out there spooning with people who insist that Obama is a socialist and a fascist who's coming to pull the plug on grandma and wants to make the retarded Palin—good luck finding that needle in that haystack—go before a "death panel." And check out the apology Rep. Grayson's gave on the floor of the House. And then watch Grayson's refusal to back down despite the best efforts of a flack of simpering CNN "pundits" to shame him into being "constructive" in the interests of "bipartisanship." Apparently Rep. Grayson didn't get the memo: Democrats are supposed to serve as punching bags for the Republicans but never take a swing at the Republicans. Hey, isn't that what "bipartisanship" is all about?
Rep. Alan Grayson was elected last November, and this is his first term. I'm sending him a check for 2010.
3
I'd settle for an un-addled version of what he did write. Sorry, but I can't make heads or tails of it. Dan, are you drinking in the airport/bus-station bar?
5
So this is all you've got to celebrate?
A guy refuses to apologize??
This passes for courage in the Democratic Party?
This is Victory?
Landslide President.
SuperMajority Congress.
And a whole big
heaping pile of
JackSquat.
A guy refuses to apologize??
This passes for courage in the Democratic Party?
This is Victory?
Landslide President.
SuperMajority Congress.
And a whole big
heaping pile of
JackSquat.
6
send a big check, Dan.
your girl will need it.
Rep. Alan Grayson is losing support in his moderate-conservative district.
This is a ploy to garner support.
Alan is one and done.
your girl will need it.
Rep. Alan Grayson is losing support in his moderate-conservative district.
This is a ploy to garner support.
Alan is one and done.
7
Republicans do it. Joe Wilson does it. What a bunch of assholes. (They are.)
Democrats do it. Grayson does it. He's a champion of the left! (He isn't.)
With either instance, you have a public official claiming that something is true when it is decidedly not, and needlessly inflammatory to boot. Just as there is no provision in any health care bill to provide funds to illegal aliens, the Republicans do indeed have an alternative health care philosophy. Its not particularly thorough or great, but its there.
You would be fuming over this if Grayson was a Republican, but he's not, so you are cheerleading him on. We need to stop playing politics like it is a fantasy football league. All that this will amount to is one fewer number in the Dems column come 2010, so congratulations, I guess.
Democrats do it. Grayson does it. He's a champion of the left! (He isn't.)
With either instance, you have a public official claiming that something is true when it is decidedly not, and needlessly inflammatory to boot. Just as there is no provision in any health care bill to provide funds to illegal aliens, the Republicans do indeed have an alternative health care philosophy. Its not particularly thorough or great, but its there.
You would be fuming over this if Grayson was a Republican, but he's not, so you are cheerleading him on. We need to stop playing politics like it is a fantasy football league. All that this will amount to is one fewer number in the Dems column come 2010, so congratulations, I guess.
10
How much will that check be Dan?
When will you send it?
We'll be checking campaign finance records. (you loudmouth blowhard)
When will you send it?
We'll be checking campaign finance records. (you loudmouth blowhard)
11
Could we please make an addition to Godwin's Law saying that if you accuse anyone of "hating America", you automatically lose the argument?
15
@1--the key thing he said was that the Republican health care plan is: "Don't Get Sick! And if You Do Get Sick, Die Quickly!" When asked to apologize, he apologized to the people who have died because of the way we run health care in this country, and said that we need to stop this holocaust. (That last bit was going a little too far, I think.)
The Republicans are turning backflips to compare this to Joe Wilson, which totally misses the point that Wilson was heckling the President in the middle of a speech! It also missed the point (Rachel Maddow had a great montage of this last night) that Republicans have been saying that the Democrats were going to kill people (and, yes, they've been saying it on the floor of Congress) throughout this debate. But the Republicans have completely embraced political correctness, and now believe it's unfair to even suggest that something they do and something a Democrat does should ever be treated differently, no matter how different they actually are, so they feel offended if the media treats Wilson differently from Grayson (but not, of course, if it treats Grayson differently from the multiple Republicans who actually did the same thing as he did).
But Grayson's characterization of the Republican plan is a little off. The plan is actually, if you do get sick, exhaust your savings, THEN die quickly.
The Republicans are turning backflips to compare this to Joe Wilson, which totally misses the point that Wilson was heckling the President in the middle of a speech! It also missed the point (Rachel Maddow had a great montage of this last night) that Republicans have been saying that the Democrats were going to kill people (and, yes, they've been saying it on the floor of Congress) throughout this debate. But the Republicans have completely embraced political correctness, and now believe it's unfair to even suggest that something they do and something a Democrat does should ever be treated differently, no matter how different they actually are, so they feel offended if the media treats Wilson differently from Grayson (but not, of course, if it treats Grayson differently from the multiple Republicans who actually did the same thing as he did).
But Grayson's characterization of the Republican plan is a little off. The plan is actually, if you do get sick, exhaust your savings, THEN die quickly.
16
Rep. Grayson made his remarks within the context of an ongoing debate in the house, when he had the floor, not a joint session of congress where the POTUS was speaking, so the standards of decorum are not the same. It's a little late for republicans to quibble about outlandish statements.
More democrats need to recognize that this is a fight. At least Grayson does.
More democrats need to recognize that this is a fight. At least Grayson does.
17
OK, so now there's at least two testicles in the Democratic section of congress.
Every journey of 1,000 testicles starts with/etc.
Every journey of 1,000 testicles starts with/etc.
18
@15, I've said it before: the end-game of the medical, financial, and legal industries is to separate us from our last dime at the moment we draw our last breath.
19
And he's raking in the dough for saying what we want all Democrats to be saying. Clone this man NOW!
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraiser…
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraiser…
20
@12, I'd also propose we make another rule stating that one's past history in the military, honorable as it may be, does not entitle them to some sort of truth monopoly. If you'd like to keep playing Logical Fallacy Tag, Will, I'm game.
For those of you arguing that this is a Good Thing, I just want you to do me a favor: Next time you are arguing with a Republican, and you bring up the fact that Republicans have been acting like incredible disrespectful assholes, remember this moment when they quickly fire back "WELLLL WHAT ABOUT GRAYSON?"
False equivalency aside, asinine comments like Grayson's force us to give up the moral high ground...and beyond the strategic implications for "our side", they only serve to further pollute what is already a blackened stream of political discourse.
For those of you arguing that this is a Good Thing, I just want you to do me a favor: Next time you are arguing with a Republican, and you bring up the fact that Republicans have been acting like incredible disrespectful assholes, remember this moment when they quickly fire back "WELLLL WHAT ABOUT GRAYSON?"
False equivalency aside, asinine comments like Grayson's force us to give up the moral high ground...and beyond the strategic implications for "our side", they only serve to further pollute what is already a blackened stream of political discourse.
22
Seems to me the proper question should always be "was he right" rather than "was he being a dick?" Unfortunately that's not how it tends to play out. Even with Wilson, people focused on the rudeness when the fact was that the guy was just dead wrong in his assertion that the president was lying, and that's what should have been focused on.
In this case, Grayson is being a dick, yes, but his statement holds some truth that needs to be examined on the congressional floor.
In this case, Grayson is being a dick, yes, but his statement holds some truth that needs to be examined on the congressional floor.
24
Uhh, yes. "Holocaust" was the wrong word. But I guess I prefer obnoxious and inflammatory to meek and ineffectual, so we'll see if this does any good.
25
I completely agree with Arsenic, in that the important thing is always the truth, not the rudeness, which is why Wilson's "apology" struck me as sour. He was essentially saying "I'm sorry I made you feel bad, but I'm still right"
However, in any reasonable sense, no, Grayson's claim is incorrect on face value. The Republican's plan, however misguided, is not "die quickly", or any variation thereof. Giving leeway to Grayson's claim, if we are being fair, opens the door to Wilson being able to lay claim to some truth in his own erroneous statement. By the same token he can say (and his defenders have said) "well, there may not be a provision in the bill specifically giving money to illegals, but there's nothing in there to ENFORCE it...therefore, I'm still right". Just as Grayson could say, "well, the republicans may not favor the quick death of the sick and elderly, but that's BASICALLY what their stubbornness amounts to."
Wrong is wrong.
However, in any reasonable sense, no, Grayson's claim is incorrect on face value. The Republican's plan, however misguided, is not "die quickly", or any variation thereof. Giving leeway to Grayson's claim, if we are being fair, opens the door to Wilson being able to lay claim to some truth in his own erroneous statement. By the same token he can say (and his defenders have said) "well, there may not be a provision in the bill specifically giving money to illegals, but there's nothing in there to ENFORCE it...therefore, I'm still right". Just as Grayson could say, "well, the republicans may not favor the quick death of the sick and elderly, but that's BASICALLY what their stubbornness amounts to."
Wrong is wrong.
27
I want my democrats to have balls of steel.....take actions that require balls of steel.....HOWEVER, I don't want to be ashamed of the lowest common denominator speech that they think "having balls of steel" require....they are wrong, actions should come before your idiot mouth even starts to open.
29
22
you seem to be confused.
Wilson was intemperate but correct in his comment.
The President acknowledged so when he modified his proposal to reflect Wilson's expressed concern.
you seem to be confused.
Wilson was intemperate but correct in his comment.
The President acknowledged so when he modified his proposal to reflect Wilson's expressed concern.
30
@1: Hopefully this will work for you, from Library of Congress:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r1…
If that doesn't work for some reason or go to the right place, here's the search functionality:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r111query.htm…
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r1…
If that doesn't work for some reason or go to the right place, here's the search functionality:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r111query.htm…
31
@29: No, Wilson was dead wrong. Obama clarified that, while the bill expressly prohibited the new plan from giving any benefits to illegal immigrants, it didn't stop them from getting emergency room care, just like they get now.
But all Wilson claimed was that Obama was a liar, something which wasn't true. Nothing he said was false, since he didn't plan on giving any benefits to illegals.
You want to expand on what you're referencing.
But all Wilson claimed was that Obama was a liar, something which wasn't true. Nothing he said was false, since he didn't plan on giving any benefits to illegals.
You want to expand on what you're referencing.
32
Freeamnesiac: he wasn't apologizing for making the Republicans feel bad. He said he was apologizing because the debate is costing people their lives. There was nothing phony or insincere about his apology. If anything, he HOPES the Republicans feel bad about their obstructionism!
34
@26, the word is nabob, which wiktionary says means:
1. An Indian ruler within the Mogul empire; a nawab.
2. (by extension) Someone of great wealth or importance.
3. (by extension) A person with a grandiose style or manner.
The phrase "nattering nabobs of negativism" was originally spoken by Spiro Agnew, of course, but I can't say I've ever heard "nabob" outside Mr Agnew's phrase. Wikipedia says the speech where Agnew used that phrase was written by William Safire, who just died on Sunday.
1. An Indian ruler within the Mogul empire; a nawab.
2. (by extension) Someone of great wealth or importance.
3. (by extension) A person with a grandiose style or manner.
The phrase "nattering nabobs of negativism" was originally spoken by Spiro Agnew, of course, but I can't say I've ever heard "nabob" outside Mr Agnew's phrase. Wikipedia says the speech where Agnew used that phrase was written by William Safire, who just died on Sunday.
35
@6 -
Oh, fuck you conservative trolls. I'm joining Dan in sending a donation to Grayson. You want to know when and how much? This much: "Go fuck yourself" (DICK Cheney).
Oh, fuck you conservative trolls. I'm joining Dan in sending a donation to Grayson. You want to know when and how much? This much: "Go fuck yourself" (DICK Cheney).
36
Maybe two wrongs don't make a right, but I have to say it felt great to finally hear a Democrat--just ONE, compared to the clowncar full of liars that have been parading out of the GOP all summer-- give the Repugnants a taste of their own shit. Grayson will eventually regret his stunt but I want to say thanks for taking one for the team. I'm sending him a check too.
37
what's with calling Palin retarded?
I personally don't like her but I know better than to call anyone retarded. It makes you look ignorant and hurts people with special needs.
I personally don't like her but I know better than to call anyone retarded. It makes you look ignorant and hurts people with special needs.
38
Wow. How fascinating to see the reaction to Mr. Grayson's message and what is being missed. He was using sarcasm and hyperbole on purpose to illustrate a point. He said as much in the interview. How anyone could confuse his statement as fact is beyond me-it was obvious.
Nitpicking over who was ruder under what circumstances distracts from the real problem- the lack of action in Congress. Sometimes one has to be loud and obnoxious to get people's attention.
One last thing, since when is the word "holocaust" off limits?It's a perfectly acceptable word. There are many holocausts through out history, not just in WWII.
Nitpicking over who was ruder under what circumstances distracts from the real problem- the lack of action in Congress. Sometimes one has to be loud and obnoxious to get people's attention.
One last thing, since when is the word "holocaust" off limits?It's a perfectly acceptable word. There are many holocausts through out history, not just in WWII.
39
@ 26, I liked that quote a lot too. I am very impressed, and wow- out of Florida! I will be donating to him.
40
"You would be fuming over this if Grayson was a Republican, but he's not, so you are cheerleading him on. "
Oh yeah? Show me the columns about all those republicans who made comments about Dems killing people. Or... did you not watch the clip?
Oh yeah? Show me the columns about all those republicans who made comments about Dems killing people. Or... did you not watch the clip?
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