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News & ArtsFriday, September 25, 2009
Better Late
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Bill Clinton explains why he changed his mind on marriage rights for same-sex couples...
And why did he change his mind?
CLINTON: I’ve never supported all the moves of a few years ago to ban gay couples from adoption. Because they’re all these kids out there looking for a home. And the standard on all adoption cases is, what is the best interest of the child? And there are plenty of cases where the best interest of the child is to let the gay couple take them and give them a loving home. So I said, you know, I realized that I was over 60 years old, I grew up at a different time, and I was hung up about the word. I had all these gay friends, I had all these gay couple friends, and I was hung up about it. And I decided I was wrong.That our society has an interest in coherence and strength and commitment and mutually reinforcing loyalties, then if gay couples want to call their union marriage and a state agrees, and several have now, or a religious body will sanction it, and I don’t think a state should be able to stop a religious body from saying it, I don’t think the rest of us should get in the way of it. I think it’s a good thing not a bad thing. And I just realized that, I was, probably for, maybe just because of my age and the way I’ve grown up, I was wrong about that. I just had too many gay friends. I saw their relationships. I just decided I couldn’t, I had an untenable position.
First, just being out—to your family, to your friends, to the 42nd President of the United States—remains the single the most important political action that any gay or lesbian person can take. And second: Barack and Michelle Obama have gay friends too, they've seen our relationships too. Here's hoping that Barack "God In The Mix" Obama's epiphany on marriage equality comes while he's still in office.
1
dunno who @ stranger would care about this most, but anyways:
http://gawker.com/5367734/barista-prosti…
scoop, dan.
http://gawker.com/5367734/barista-prosti…
scoop, dan.
2
Yeah I'm done talking about Clinton and his numerous, sad, failures. Question: Will Hawaiian garbage smell better than Washington garbage? We are about to find out. The Seattle TImes has a quick blurb up on how Hawaii is shipping over 100,000 tons of rotting poi to Washington state, since their landfill is out of room. Perhaps they shoudl start recycling some of it? Anyone from Hawaii out there?
4
I'm predicting that Obama will have a 'revelation', and it will come just months after he's no longer the president.
Clinton needs to do more than just talk about his evolution, he needs to apologize for the nightmare that became law under his watch. If he apologizes then I will value his opinion.
Clinton needs to do more than just talk about his evolution, he needs to apologize for the nightmare that became law under his watch. If he apologizes then I will value his opinion.
5
Clinton is scamming the Gays again, Dan. There is no political downside to getting all open-minded now. That is the only thing that has changed.
And 'better late..' is not the appropriate cliche.
Try 'adding insult to injury'.
Response?
'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on be.'
Don't be a sucker forever...
And 'better late..' is not the appropriate cliche.
Try 'adding insult to injury'.
Response?
'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on be.'
Don't be a sucker forever...
7
Clinton's lying, of course. He "felt" this way 16 years ago when he was elected. He just didn't have the power to do anything about it. In fact, he signed DOMA to regain some political viability during the height of the Reagan era; an era of course that he extended by taking the low road of giving in to it rather than fighting it. Clinton will be remembered for one thing; his political courage is not it.
9
Dan makes an important point here. Being out and comfortable with who you are is the best way to ensure political change. It's not by calling people bigots, recovered bigots, homophobes, etc, or screaming at rallies with angry signs. The evolution that Clinton describes having happened in himself will happen in most people so long as the gayz don't turn into assholes about it and make us not want to support them.
12
Mr. Savage your strategy is spot on. Yet Bill's story is empty. His "hang ups" had a real impact on our lives.
13
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This website is providing platform for LIVE online psychic chat. There are many types, methods and systems of psychic/extra-sensory readings employed by those who claim to have psychic abilities. A professional psychic may have one or more specialized areas of expertise such as psychometry, distant readings, Tarot reading, astrology or horoscope readings, numerology, palm reading, past-life readings, aura readings or any number of other methods
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More...
Speaking about the principle behind the online psychic chat, Mr. Robert said, “Actually we are not supposed to reveal the secrets behind the working principle of the online psychic chat. Live online psychics involve the art of palm reading, astrology, tarot card; love spells and love psychics mainly. The psychic masters know the views of clients in live online services. They get indulged in the process of space and time meanwhile. The spirits attempt on the psychic readers. What would most likely be required for you to have for a psychic chat is a web cam. Unless you don’t want the psychic to be able to see you during your online psychic reading. Basically what takes place during a psychic chat is that a window opens that connects you to your psychic. Once connected you will be able to view each other and chat with each other through this window.”
Speaking on the move, Mr. Robert said, “This technology combined with spirituality is promising a better tomorrow for many people out there. It is upto the people to appreciate this ultimate method of psychic reading and enjoy the great benefits and convenience it can offer. For the moment of truth you will see that our online psychic readers will charge very less for a chat when compared to the other service providers.”
About mypsychicadvice.com
This website is providing platform for LIVE online psychic chat. There are many types, methods and systems of psychic/extra-sensory readings employed by those who claim to have psychic abilities. A professional psychic may have one or more specialized areas of expertise such as psychometry, distant readings, Tarot reading, astrology or horoscope readings, numerology, palm reading, past-life readings, aura readings or any number of other methods
For more information, visit http://www.mypsychicadvice.com
16
Boy, it sure is easy to back controversial issues once your political career is over! Who the hell are all these gay people who keep befriending homophobic bigots? Do they enjoy the abuse?
18
Oh I know our Marxist homosexual in chief will allow it. He'll demand it by executive order! But he'll wait until the country is totally under his control before springing the sodomites on America.
That's why the hard traditionalists must stand and fight to stop this perverted usurper from going any further, and I'm confident this pederast will be thrashed by the hard tax cuttng pro family traditionalists next year...if the elections are allowed to go forward. You never know what this "man" will do.
That's why the hard traditionalists must stand and fight to stop this perverted usurper from going any further, and I'm confident this pederast will be thrashed by the hard tax cuttng pro family traditionalists next year...if the elections are allowed to go forward. You never know what this "man" will do.
20
While I believe that coming out to family and friends is of crucial importance, the most important political action we can take is to vote. Voting is absolutely indispensible. And Bill Clinton is a victim of bigoted attitudes as well. His generation has inherited religious bigotry that was drilled into them from an early age. We all can relate to the difficulty of overcoming that.
21
Now if Bill would just apologize to Juanita Broderick for sexually assautling her and biting her lip in that Little Rock motel room when he was Arkansas Attny Gen, he'd be making real progress.
22
We make the mistake of thinking presidents will make a difference. They won't - or at least they won't make a positive difference - on their own. The office is inherently centrist. Even Reagan and Bush realized that after arriving in office. When it comes to the Presidential elections, from a LGBT standpoint, It's mostly just a matter of voting for the least worst candidate.
It's the Congress that we should be focusing on. Build numbers in Congress, pass good solid legislation, and the least worst Presidents (aka presidents like Clinton or Obama) will sign it.
It's the Congress that we should be focusing on. Build numbers in Congress, pass good solid legislation, and the least worst Presidents (aka presidents like Clinton or Obama) will sign it.
23
#5 for the win. Amen, brother, amen!
Maybe Clinton can redeem himself by some hard lobbying on behalf of same sex marriage and repealing DADT and DOMA, since our current President seems to have thrown us under the bus.
Maybe Clinton can redeem himself by some hard lobbying on behalf of same sex marriage and repealing DADT and DOMA, since our current President seems to have thrown us under the bus.
24
One of the unfortunate failings of democracy is that it is often necessary to secure overwhelming popular support for doing the right thing before doing it.
25
Coming out is undeniably a political act, a strong one, even. But I think the main reason the majority of out gay people come out is to save their sanities. The closet is a crazy way to live. What the fundies don't get is that the "unhealthy lifestyle" isn't being gay, in and of itself; it's being gay and in the closet.
27
It's long been argued that if every straight person had just one gay friend who kept him/her 'straight' on 'gay' affairs, then passing Ref. 7 et.al. would be a zephyr. Let there be a nationwide campaign led by my Texas bud, Bea Frenda Gaye, encouraging confused straight people to befriend a gay and learn that our lives do not exclusively revolve around 'tea and sodomy'.
28
25
Because it's being in the closet (not unprotected buttsex...) that make homosexuals account for 58% of all new AIDS cases.
Because it's being in the closet (not unprotected buttsex...) that make homosexuals account for 58% of all new AIDS cases.
29
@21 Or if he'd come clean about what happened to Vince Foster, Mary Mahoney, or anyone else who dared to speak out against him.
Plus, there's that black love child he fathered and skipped out on.
What a disgrace that man is!
Plus, there's that black love child he fathered and skipped out on.
What a disgrace that man is!
30
"Dan makes an important point here. Being out and comfortable with who you are is the best way to ensure political change."
Yeah well, good luck with that. When was the last time anyone saw a gay couple outside of the gay ghetto, acting obviously like a couple, the same way straight couples do, thousands of times a day, in every public setting? Yesterday? Last month? Last year?
We're willing to write a check (or hide in a crowd in a march once a year) to support same sex marriage but we're not willing to daily remind people that we exist simply by being out as couples in public places more than a mile from the intersection of Pike and Broadway.
To those very very few of you who do-- thank you.
Yeah well, good luck with that. When was the last time anyone saw a gay couple outside of the gay ghetto, acting obviously like a couple, the same way straight couples do, thousands of times a day, in every public setting? Yesterday? Last month? Last year?
We're willing to write a check (or hide in a crowd in a march once a year) to support same sex marriage but we're not willing to daily remind people that we exist simply by being out as couples in public places more than a mile from the intersection of Pike and Broadway.
To those very very few of you who do-- thank you.
31
Here's another political strategy for marriage equality, given by an anonymous person from PostSecret http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_a7jkcMVp5Vg/Sr…
32
The other link I gave doesn't seem to be working. Maybe this will work http://postsecret.blogspot.com/
Scroll through the postcards. I think you'll know which one I'm talking about.
Scroll through the postcards. I think you'll know which one I'm talking about.
33
@29, if you truly believe those stories, I have some shares in the Brooklyn Bridge I'd like to sell you...
34
@30
uhm your welcome..
my boyfriend and i are always out and about being openly affectionate. Not in the annoying PDA ways, we just don't go for that, but in the we're obviously a same sex couple way.
uhm your welcome..
my boyfriend and i are always out and about being openly affectionate. Not in the annoying PDA ways, we just don't go for that, but in the we're obviously a same sex couple way.
35
Well there's not a hard-and-fast line between "really" holding an opinion and pretending to hold it for reasons of political strategy. After all, Clinton may have been in favor of marriage equality, but also believed it wasn't worth spending political capital on, or wasn't as important as other human rights issues. He may have changed his mind about that. Lots of well-meaning people in the 90's thought gay marriage wouldn't be necessary as long as people had civil unions, it's not impossible.
36
Paul Martin, former prime minister of Canada, had a similar turnaround, described in his autobiography, the name of which I forget. First time the issue of gay marriage came up in House of Commons, he voted against it in a reflexive Catholic way. Then, he thought about it and learned more about it, and thereafter supported gay marriage.
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