Wednesday, September 23, 2009
TV Regarding This Week's Episode of Hoarders; or, How I Became the Type of Person Who Thinks Certain Mental Illnesses Might Best Be Treated with a Smack Upside the Head
Posted by David Schmader on Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:27 AM
Holy crap: Patty & Bill.
Patty's a seemingly normal woman whose compulsive shopping and hoarding forced the removal of her kids from her home. So: She could deal with the police removing her flesh-and-blood CHILDREN, but cannot deal with a professional cleaning crew removing a football-field's-worth of rancid clutter? Icing on the cake: The three full-size storage units—those portable Pod things—that Patty spontaneously rents and crams full of rancid clutter she's unable to part with. This is a strange thing to say about someone whose hoarding life involves feces and rats, but hoarding seems like the least of Patty's problems, or at least just the manifestation of something much deeper and scarier (to her, to us, to everybody). "This is just so embarrassing," was the most Patty could say about her situation. Yes, it's so embarrassing to be so crazy your kids get taken away by authorities. SMACK!
Bill's a compulsive shopper/hoarder who fancies himself a handyman. However, his compulsive hoarding of home improvement supplies and various other junk has taken over his life, his home, and at least three rental properties which he owns but has been unable to rent for 20 years due to their being packed to the rafters with clutter. Icing on the cake: The scene where Bill explains to his hoarding coach how a year earlier, his wife tripped on the packed-with-clutter stairs and broke her arm—a story Bill recounts while standing next to the still-packed-with-clutter-a-year-later staircase. Smack smack SMACK!
Acknowledgment: My suspect smacking urges are why I make a good Hoarders watcher but would make a terrible hoarding specialist. Those people are fucking saints.
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1
How in the world are these people able to afford all of the things they hoard? I will never understand that. And Patty, with all of her Target shopping, couldn't pick up some halfway decent furniture from this century? I watched that episode in horror. And then cleaned my house.
2
I thought this episode was one of the best for highlighting how hoarding really is--or can be--an illness. Somewhere in their brains, these people have switches in their heads that they are incapable of switching off even when the most dire consequences are RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM. I mean, they had to keep filling those huge storage units with Patty's stuff that had just been sitting in huge piles in the garage, STILL IN THE BAGS FROM THE STORE, and she wouldn't let them get rid of any of it. IF IT'S BEEN SITTING IN THE BAG FOR TWO YEARS AT THE BOTTOM OF A HUMONGOUS PILE OF SHIT, IT'S LESS IMPORTANT THAN YOUR KIDS, PATTY.
But because they so clearly had no choice about being so screwed-up, I found them less irritating than last week's hoarders, who both just seemed like crappy people. Especially Kerrylea, with her "Oh my God the maid threw out my old empty shampoo bottles this is such a violation now I must spend three hours going through each empty bottle and probably keeping most of them how could the maid do such a horrible thing" shit.
But because they so clearly had no choice about being so screwed-up, I found them less irritating than last week's hoarders, who both just seemed like crappy people. Especially Kerrylea, with her "Oh my God the maid threw out my old empty shampoo bottles this is such a violation now I must spend three hours going through each empty bottle and probably keeping most of them how could the maid do such a horrible thing" shit.
3
I do have to say that I can't take the series. The participants are in dire need of cognitive and/or aversion therapy, so having a team of admittedly well-meaning professionals come in to essentially act as a cleaning crew is not going to solve the root issue. Frankly, the hoarders often come across as terribly repellent and narcissistic, showing none of the empathy, quiet desperation, or bravery that those involved in "Obsessed" do.
Having dealt with a seriously mentally ill family member for years, I can relate to your "Smack!" impulse. Too often, a mental disorder becomes a crutch/human shield that's used to excuse awful character flaws and an all-consuming it's-all-about-me selfishness.
Having dealt with a seriously mentally ill family member for years, I can relate to your "Smack!" impulse. Too often, a mental disorder becomes a crutch/human shield that's used to excuse awful character flaws and an all-consuming it's-all-about-me selfishness.
4
The "smack" impulse is very much alive in my boyfriend and me when it comes to Hoarders. It drives him crazy, though, to the point of rage; I'm shaking my fist just as hard, but I just love it.
I've only seen the first episode, but, God, JILL! So, fucking, gross. It was bad enough with the kitty litter, the not-so-frozen frozen meat, and her son with the skeeeeeevy moustache, but when she actually stopped a man literally shovelling food off her food and started picking seeds out of a rotten pumpkin, I just died.
I've only seen the first episode, but, God, JILL! So, fucking, gross. It was bad enough with the kitty litter, the not-so-frozen frozen meat, and her son with the skeeeeeevy moustache, but when she actually stopped a man literally shovelling food off her food and started picking seeds out of a rotten pumpkin, I just died.
5
@3, agreed. The show intentionally triggers an extreme crisis for these people and subsequently abandons them with the implication that they have somehow “failed.” It is obvious that these massive clean-ups are doomed unless they are preceded by months of therapy to combat the thinking patterns that lead to their behavior.
It is so interesting that they are motivated by impulses that we all have (e.g. an avoidance of the guilt associated with feeling wasteful, nostalgic connections to objects). Their impulses are normal, but occur with such strength that they are uncontrollable.
I wonder what the success rate is for those who actually seek therapy…
It is so interesting that they are motivated by impulses that we all have (e.g. an avoidance of the guilt associated with feeling wasteful, nostalgic connections to objects). Their impulses are normal, but occur with such strength that they are uncontrollable.
I wonder what the success rate is for those who actually seek therapy…
9
Um, where is the "therapy" here? The actual "treatment?" Would these families or the therapists allow this to go on if it was substance abuse/addiction or eating disorder? How is this different? It is unhealthy. It hurts the people around them. It keeps them from being productive members of society. It is a symptom of some larger mental health issue. Where is the "stop enabling this behavior" tough love? Can we bring the "Intervention" people into this show? Can we get these hoarders to go to inpatient treatment - to get help while their families clear out the crap in their houses? [and, hpoefully, this won't be a problem, since the hoarders will come out of treatment with a new attitude about their "stuff" and not need it.]
And, Bill's daughter seemed pretty old - like past high school. If that is the case, why doesn't she move out? Why doesn't she take her bedroom trash to the dump or another location to make it go away for good? I was perplexed by this. She rails against her father and yet provides fuel for his fire.
Pretty soon, this series and I are going to part ways. The "let's look at these people like they are a freak show and not really provide any help/therapy/solution - just exploit them for their mental instability" is getting ugly.
And, Bill's daughter seemed pretty old - like past high school. If that is the case, why doesn't she move out? Why doesn't she take her bedroom trash to the dump or another location to make it go away for good? I was perplexed by this. She rails against her father and yet provides fuel for his fire.
Pretty soon, this series and I are going to part ways. The "let's look at these people like they are a freak show and not really provide any help/therapy/solution - just exploit them for their mental instability" is getting ugly.
10
@1,
I was just thinking that. The guy owns four properties? I guess it's more affordable if you don't bother maintaining them at all.
@2,
I thought Lauren was far worse. In her case, I think a lot of it is laziness (even if it's likely related to depression and lack of self-worth), and I felt so sorry for her boyfriend. I didn't get the impression that Kerrylea treats her husband like shit.
I was just thinking that. The guy owns four properties? I guess it's more affordable if you don't bother maintaining them at all.
@2,
I thought Lauren was far worse. In her case, I think a lot of it is laziness (even if it's likely related to depression and lack of self-worth), and I felt so sorry for her boyfriend. I didn't get the impression that Kerrylea treats her husband like shit.
11
I watched this show because of you David... and I was horrified. I have the same impluse of wanting to slap them upside their heads. But I also have a bit of sympathy. Once my dad and I tried to "help" my mom clean some of her crap out of the garage and it was so painful for her that several times she cried and we had to stop. Eventually we got that garage cleaned out, but damn, it wasn't easy.
This show makes me want to clean my own house. HOLY CRAP!
This show makes me want to clean my own house. HOLY CRAP!
12
Dude, Patty. OMFG.
"But it has sentimental value!"
Guess what has more sentimental value?! YOUR FUCKNG KIDS! Would you rather have the stroller your kids are too old to use anymore, or your ACTUAL KIDS?!
Gah.
"But it has sentimental value!"
Guess what has more sentimental value?! YOUR FUCKNG KIDS! Would you rather have the stroller your kids are too old to use anymore, or your ACTUAL KIDS?!
Gah.
13
Triage.
There are usually three kinds of things:
1. Important documents you need to have (this does not include old papers of President Reagan, but does include birth or marriage certificates or house ownership documents, excluding warranties for things that have expired).
2. Emotional connection crap. Bronzed baby shoes, all the art your kid made for the last 18 years, old textbooks you never open (yours, kids), course notes for same, etc.
3. Everything else.
Anything that hasn't been used in the last three years in category 3 needs to go or be sold or donated (if you can). Anything in category 2 needs to go but will cause an emotional fuss when you get rid of it, so do this in stage 2 to give you room to work on it.
Think Zen or Quaker. What would you NEED to carry with you if there was a fire RIGHT NOW. Anything else - trash. Or recycling. Rent a truck and take trips to the dump and recylcing centers. Anything that doesn't work must go.
There are usually three kinds of things:
1. Important documents you need to have (this does not include old papers of President Reagan, but does include birth or marriage certificates or house ownership documents, excluding warranties for things that have expired).
2. Emotional connection crap. Bronzed baby shoes, all the art your kid made for the last 18 years, old textbooks you never open (yours, kids), course notes for same, etc.
3. Everything else.
Anything that hasn't been used in the last three years in category 3 needs to go or be sold or donated (if you can). Anything in category 2 needs to go but will cause an emotional fuss when you get rid of it, so do this in stage 2 to give you room to work on it.
Think Zen or Quaker. What would you NEED to carry with you if there was a fire RIGHT NOW. Anything else - trash. Or recycling. Rent a truck and take trips to the dump and recylcing centers. Anything that doesn't work must go.
15
Thank you for introducing me to this show, David. My apartment is so much cleaner since I started watching.
16
Did no one watch the wrap-ups at the end? Patty got a divorce and her kids are with the husband because the state of Kansas didn't approve of the THOUSANDS OF BOXES FULL OF CRAP STILL PILED IN HER HOUSE...Bill's wife had a HEART ATTACK after he refused to clean up their houses! They were the most depressing wrap-ups in the history of wrap-ups!!
17
Will, for these people EVERYTHING is Category Two. That's because they're mentally ill. Maybe you should watch the show before solving everybody's problem on it.
Gloria @4, that was the moment that hooked me as well, picking the pumpkin seeds. IT'S A ROTTEN PUMPKIN ON THE FLOOR OF YOUR LIVING ROOM! Not to mention the fact that she had (in theory, if it wasn't expired or rotten) enough food to feed a small town for a hundred years.
I am obviously not a therapist, but I am firmly in the "smack" camp; these people should be taken to a motel somewhere and have EVERYTHING hauled away except photos more than 50 years old. Tough shit. It's just stuff. I've lived through a couple of episodes where I've lost everything, and while there are still a few items I specifically remember and miss (my Mussolini atlas) it's simply not a big deal. Especially not containers full of 90%-off crap from Target.
Jake, the gay boy, especially. He's a kid, he doesn't HAVE anything. Just walk away. Leave everything and don't come back. Literally nothing in that house -- least of all your dad and his million wine bottles -- has any value at all. Go buy some new clothes and you'll never miss a thing.
I noticed that both of the people from the last show were failures: Bill is out, and Patty is divorced and hasn't got her kids. Man, I feel sorry for those kids. I feel sorry for Bill's daughter, too, but she's got a good attitude and will be fine the second she gets out of that house for good. Plus she was kind of hot, especially when she was angry.
Gloria @4, that was the moment that hooked me as well, picking the pumpkin seeds. IT'S A ROTTEN PUMPKIN ON THE FLOOR OF YOUR LIVING ROOM! Not to mention the fact that she had (in theory, if it wasn't expired or rotten) enough food to feed a small town for a hundred years.
I am obviously not a therapist, but I am firmly in the "smack" camp; these people should be taken to a motel somewhere and have EVERYTHING hauled away except photos more than 50 years old. Tough shit. It's just stuff. I've lived through a couple of episodes where I've lost everything, and while there are still a few items I specifically remember and miss (my Mussolini atlas) it's simply not a big deal. Especially not containers full of 90%-off crap from Target.
Jake, the gay boy, especially. He's a kid, he doesn't HAVE anything. Just walk away. Leave everything and don't come back. Literally nothing in that house -- least of all your dad and his million wine bottles -- has any value at all. Go buy some new clothes and you'll never miss a thing.
I noticed that both of the people from the last show were failures: Bill is out, and Patty is divorced and hasn't got her kids. Man, I feel sorry for those kids. I feel sorry for Bill's daughter, too, but she's got a good attitude and will be fine the second she gets out of that house for good. Plus she was kind of hot, especially when she was angry.
18
@16 I actually found it heartening that Patty's husband divorced her to get custody of his kids back. At least one of their parents is capable of caring more about them than garbage.
19
I've only watched a 3 or 4 episodes thus far. Some things I don't like about it:
- they seem to trash lots of stuff that could be given away to other. If they put that one desk on the curb with a free sign on it then it would likely be gone in minutes. Instead they toss everything into a landfill (although supposedly they try to recycle some stuff?)
- all the cases shown so far have messiness as a problem in addition to the hoarding. Why can't they show some cases where the person has highly organized hoarding (which is still causing them life issues)?
- they seem to trash lots of stuff that could be given away to other. If they put that one desk on the curb with a free sign on it then it would likely be gone in minutes. Instead they toss everything into a landfill (although supposedly they try to recycle some stuff?)
- all the cases shown so far have messiness as a problem in addition to the hoarding. Why can't they show some cases where the person has highly organized hoarding (which is still causing them life issues)?
20
If this show ever makes it to a 2nd season, I predict lots of advertising by pharmaceutical companies. Hell, they're probably ready to launch a new product specific to these kinds of behaviors.
21
@19,
One problem is that organized hoarders don't usually need that kind of intervention. They're not at risk of losing their kids. They're not going to be evicted. They're not facing government intervention.
I can't completely blame them for trashing that stuff. They have limited time, thanks to the show's format, and I'd imagine there'd be more complications with the hoarders if they set stuff out on the curb. Once the hoarder has agreed to give something up, you have to junk it right away or they'll try to take it back.
One problem is that organized hoarders don't usually need that kind of intervention. They're not at risk of losing their kids. They're not going to be evicted. They're not facing government intervention.
I can't completely blame them for trashing that stuff. They have limited time, thanks to the show's format, and I'd imagine there'd be more complications with the hoarders if they set stuff out on the curb. Once the hoarder has agreed to give something up, you have to junk it right away or they'll try to take it back.
22
@19, most of the stuff hoarded cannot be saved because of the RODENT CRAP. In most of the episodes there is an abundance of rodent and insect treats encased in the mounds of overly consumed stuff.
25
Oh give me a break, Lauren didn't have rodents in her stuff. I wouldn't say "most" had "rodent and insect treats" in their stuff.
The guy on the first(?) episode had a bunch of aquariums that he was willing to part with. He flipped out a little because they were just going to destroy them. It wasn't unreasonable for him to want to put the stuff on the curb. I'm pretty sure someone would want a free aquarium or two *even though they were not in great condition*. But the show is pushing using paid junk removal services, and those places aren't going to encourage people to re-use stuff.
The guy on the first(?) episode had a bunch of aquariums that he was willing to part with. He flipped out a little because they were just going to destroy them. It wasn't unreasonable for him to want to put the stuff on the curb. I'm pretty sure someone would want a free aquarium or two *even though they were not in great condition*. But the show is pushing using paid junk removal services, and those places aren't going to encourage people to re-use stuff.
27
Look, I've edged very close to becoming a hoarder myself, and my mother is slightly over the edge of it. There's no question in my mind it's a mental illness; the hoarding generally supplants what most people would consider normal human impulses. It's not rational behavior, and you can't reason with a hoarder to get them to stop. They need to address the underlying issue, which in probably 90% of the cases, is severe depression. Address the depression and THEN address the hoarding, otherwise, they'll simply start over. Also, it is IMPOSSIBLE to cope with serious divestiture of your shit or tackling the world's biggest mountain of useless crap when you're depressed. Jesus, some days, making it to the shower is a major accomplishment that is beyond your abilities.
A slap isn't the right therapy. Treat the underlying depression, then help the people divest and learn other ways to deal with stress and unhappiness than collecting shit. Just taking their shit away from them is utterly useless.
A slap isn't the right therapy. Treat the underlying depression, then help the people divest and learn other ways to deal with stress and unhappiness than collecting shit. Just taking their shit away from them is utterly useless.
28
...and I have yet to meet a hoarder who didn't, at some level, understand that their hoarding was a problem. But they're depressed. It's the way they're self-medicating. It's exactly the same thing as someone who is destructively alcoholic in an attempt to self-medicate severe depression. Most can't just STOP successfully until you treat the underlying condition (and yes, I know an alcoholic has to just stop drinking - but you still have to address the reasons they were drinking if you hope for long-term success).
29
I agree that a slap is not therapy, but I'm on the fence about the possible benefits of cleaning a hoarder's space. It seems a lot of these people have irrational fears that they will die/time will break open/the universe will explode if they give up hoarded items, and helping them experience the truth—they will not die, the universe will not explode—seems like potentially valuable therapy.
(But also: expecting a one-time purging to cure a hoarder is INSANE, and clearly such a stunt must be followed by extensive therapy if it's to have any hope of working.)
(But also: expecting a one-time purging to cure a hoarder is INSANE, and clearly such a stunt must be followed by extensive therapy if it's to have any hope of working.)
30
I love this show if only because it makes me feel better about my own nesting tendencies. Also, I find the cautionary tale strangely inspirational. I've made a conscious effort to be neater and better-organized so I can never, ever be on this show.
31
David, "Hoarders" has had the exact same effect on me. I just want to scream and beat the crap out of almost every one of the participants. Most of them seem like selfish, stubborn jerks who can't really accept that they have a problem or accept the responsibility that comes with that.
I have a bit of a problem with the show in that they provide expert helpers or therapists but they give them basically no time to work with them - it's straight to the clean up. On A&E's other similar show "Obsessed," which sometimes featured hoarders, the therapist worked with the person for 12 weeks and usually made mental progress, but there was no physical help for cleaning up the house. It seems like the two concepts need to be merged.
I have a bit of a problem with the show in that they provide expert helpers or therapists but they give them basically no time to work with them - it's straight to the clean up. On A&E's other similar show "Obsessed," which sometimes featured hoarders, the therapist worked with the person for 12 weeks and usually made mental progress, but there was no physical help for cleaning up the house. It seems like the two concepts need to be merged.
32
Every time I see this I thank the imaginary super friend I was never this crazy....and I was tidy and well ordered. Seriously, if you have to hoard crap at least keep it clean and organized properly. Yeah, my pantry full of spice bottles was nuts but they were alphabetized and open bottles were put out front and I didn't open a new one until the first were used up.
33
@25: Agreed. I think commentators after your original comment make a good point, but I see what you mean about the guy and the aquariums.
Has anyone here seen Clean Sweep? It's basically the same show on TLC (not sure if it's on anymore) but with less psychology and ominous music -- more light-hearted like a Trading Spaces type, with more talk about decorating as well as organizing. When they clean out rooms, they sort with three piles -- keep, trash, and *sell.* Part of the show format is having the homeowners hold a yard sale. Anything that isn't sold afterwards is donated to charity.
They also have two (three?) days, so I'm not sure if the time-limit is a legitimate restraint. I'm sure they could keep a pile of donations and call Goodwill or other charity to pick it up.
Has anyone here seen Clean Sweep? It's basically the same show on TLC (not sure if it's on anymore) but with less psychology and ominous music -- more light-hearted like a Trading Spaces type, with more talk about decorating as well as organizing. When they clean out rooms, they sort with three piles -- keep, trash, and *sell.* Part of the show format is having the homeowners hold a yard sale. Anything that isn't sold afterwards is donated to charity.
They also have two (three?) days, so I'm not sure if the time-limit is a legitimate restraint. I'm sure they could keep a pile of donations and call Goodwill or other charity to pick it up.
34
@33: Although to be fair, I think Hoarders targets a person's entire house, while Clean Sweep limits itself to a couple of rooms.
Re: the comments that not enough psychological help is offered, it's worth noting that at least after the first episode, there was an epilogue describing the therapy they underwent or started to undergo too.
Re: the comments that not enough psychological help is offered, it's worth noting that at least after the first episode, there was an epilogue describing the therapy they underwent or started to undergo too.
35
Disturbing. Absolutely disturbing.
Where is the line drawn between "nasty" and "ill"? I am ashamed to admit it but I wanted to physically assault them all.
This show is enabling the hoarders worse than the family members are. If they don't receive some sort of treatment/counseling/prayer, they will end up right back in the same situation. I believe the network is doing the show more for shock factor than to want to help. Of course "shock factor" makes for better TV, but when the hoarders walk back into their clean houses they won't keep it clean; they'll think, "Wow, now I have lots of space...to hoard more crap."
Like I said: disturbing. I'd just cleaned my house the day before watching the show and I went back and rescrubbed. God bless all their filthy little hearts.
Where is the line drawn between "nasty" and "ill"? I am ashamed to admit it but I wanted to physically assault them all.
This show is enabling the hoarders worse than the family members are. If they don't receive some sort of treatment/counseling/prayer, they will end up right back in the same situation. I believe the network is doing the show more for shock factor than to want to help. Of course "shock factor" makes for better TV, but when the hoarders walk back into their clean houses they won't keep it clean; they'll think, "Wow, now I have lots of space...to hoard more crap."
Like I said: disturbing. I'd just cleaned my house the day before watching the show and I went back and rescrubbed. God bless all their filthy little hearts.
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