Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, September 22, 2009
Homo / News Meanwhile in Utah
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Gee, no doubt this guy is getting a fair trial down there in the Beehive State:
Lulu Latu paused several times to cry whiles testifying Tuesday about finding her missing 2-year-old daughter and 4-year-old nephew at the South Salt Lake home of next-door neighbor David James "DJ" Bell last July 4.Bell, 31, is on trial in 3rd District Court accused of two counts of child kidnapping, first-degree felonies punishable by 15 years to life, and one count of second-degree felony burglary.
Latu said the children were crying in an upstairs bedroom, where Bell was saying to them, "You guys are so beautiful." Latu said she "went ballistic," yelling and screaming at Bell and slapping him because she was so upset. She then picked up the children and told Bell he'd better, "lock his doors."
Minutes later, three to five of the children's adult relatives broke down Bell's door and severely beat him and his gay partner, Dan Fair.
Bell was at an all-night July 4th party at Lulu's house where he found the children "awake and fussy," he claims, and he took them to his apartment so they could get some sleep on his couch. A dumbfuck move, of course, and not something I would do without asking for the permission of the parents—in this case, parents with "extensive criminal records, including burglary, robbery, assault on a police officer and giving false information to police." But Bell's error of judgment—if it was that—can't justify what was happened to him and Day:
The children had already been removed from Bell's home when the adults, who apparently were unaware the children were safe, kicked down his door. One used a piece of broken glass to cut Bell's throat and one of his toes. Bell's head was smashed onto the sidewalk, resulting in loss of hearing. Bell's partner, Fair, was beaten, and a large TV was thrown onto his head.
Amazingly enough, only Bell has been charged with a crime. I don't know enough about this case to declare that Bell shouldn't be charged with a crime. I don't smile on anyone—gay, straight, neighbor, stranger—leaving a party with someone else's small children. But charges—assault, battery, attempted murder—should have been brought against the men who tried to kill Bell and his "gay partner."
And I don't doubt that if Bell and Fair were a straight Mormon couple that charges would've been brought against the men who assaulted them.
1
God, that's horrible. I really don't care who it is, as far as I'm concerned you do NOT inflict that kind of violence on ANY other human being.
Taking the children? Yes, dumbfuck move. The 'you're so beautiful' can't be proven but does disturb me. But THAT much backlash with only HIM being charged with a crime?
We have the concept of 'equivalent defense' for a reason. If a guy breaks into my house, I can't actually kill him. Knock him out, sure. If he's got a gun, I can respond in kind. If he shoots me, it's every man for himself.
Again, dumb move, but...ugh. So overboard and so wrong.
Taking the children? Yes, dumbfuck move. The 'you're so beautiful' can't be proven but does disturb me. But THAT much backlash with only HIM being charged with a crime?
We have the concept of 'equivalent defense' for a reason. If a guy breaks into my house, I can't actually kill him. Knock him out, sure. If he's got a gun, I can respond in kind. If he shoots me, it's every man for himself.
Again, dumb move, but...ugh. So overboard and so wrong.
4
Also, leave it to Dan not to understand any basic legal principles. A witness lying on the stand does not equal a lack of a fair trial. Denying the accused competent representation and the right to confront his accusers does equal a lack of a fair trial.
5
Oh come on now. Dan, if somebody took your kid, can you honestly tell me you wouldn't beat the shit out of the guy? I wouldn't charge these people either, because no jury would convict. Anywhere.
6
I doubt he's going to get a fair trial in a state where charges were brought against him, and him alone, WHEN HE WAS CLEARLY THE VICTIM OF A CRIME. And I'm sure a jury made up of people who live in that state—a state where a daily paper would run with such a prejudicial headline—will be fair and impartial when it comes to deciding this case.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
7
So did these people all live in the same apartment complex or something? Bell was at an all-night party at the trashy parents and then brought the kids down to his apartment so they could sleep?
EVERYTHING about this story is fishy. I bet the all-night party was lots of drunk and/or high on meth Utah rednecks--including Bell and his "gay partner". This is all so bizarre: taking kids that aren't yours, the party, cutting peoples' toes with glass. Sounds methy.
EVERYTHING about this story is fishy. I bet the all-night party was lots of drunk and/or high on meth Utah rednecks--including Bell and his "gay partner". This is all so bizarre: taking kids that aren't yours, the party, cutting peoples' toes with glass. Sounds methy.
9
Please forward widely…
Seattle LGBT Equality Weekend October 10 – 11, 2009
Seattle OUTProtest has brought together a grassroots coalition of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and straight people and organizations to organize a series of solidarity events to coincide with the National March for Equality this October.
March and Rally
Forty years after the Stonewall Rebellion, we march in solidarity with our brothers and sisters and allies in Washington, DC to demand equal protection in all matters governed by civil law in all 50 states and to show our public support for the Approval of Referendum 71 here in Washington state.
Sunday, October 11
2:00 pm: Volunteer Park, 10th Ave E & E Prospect
5:00 pm: Rally, Federal Courthouse, 7th & Stewart
Thinking Queerly: Community Workshops on LGBT Issues
Community organizers and activists will present a series of workshops on a range of issues affecting the lgbt community including Stonewall and lgbt movement history, homelessness, hate crimes and self defense, lgbt health, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, lgbt legal issues, Gay-Straight Alliances, marriage equality, and more.
Saturday, October 10
9:30 am to 5 pm
Piggot Auditorium, Seattle University
HIV/AIDS Vigil
As the AIDS pandemic nears its fourth decade, we gather to educate and raise awareness about the continued struggles of people living with HIV/AIDS and their families, friends, and support networks as well as to demand all resources and all funding necessary for prevention, treatment, and a cure.
Saturday, October 10
Starting at 6 pm
Seattle Central Community College South Plaza, Broadway & E Pine
Generation Q Mega Mixer
Come mingle and mix with seasoned leaders and activists of the GLBTQ community at the Generation Q Mega Mixer. Young leaders (25 and under please) will have the opportunity to socialize, learn from, and quite possibly have a dance off with some of the community's most inspiring members in a relaxed social environment.
Sunday, October 11
6:30 pm
Sole Repair Shop, 1001 E Pike
Seattle LGBT Equality Weekend March & Rally
http://nationalmarch.seattleoutprotest.o…
Get involved with one of our planning committees! Contact for more time and details:
March/Rally Committee, March@seattleoutprotest.org
Workshops Committee, Workshops@seattleoutprotest.org
Outreach Committee, Outreach@seattleoutprotest.org
Mixer Committee, Mixer@seattleoutprotest.org
HIV/AIDS Vigil Committee, Vigil@seattleoutprotest.org
Biweekly General Organizing Meetings, please contact whitney@seattleoutprotest.org for time and location.
National Equality March: Equality Across America
www.equalityacrossamerica.org
Approve Referendum 71
Keep the Domestic Partnership Law
More...
Seattle LGBT Equality Weekend October 10 – 11, 2009
Seattle OUTProtest has brought together a grassroots coalition of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and straight people and organizations to organize a series of solidarity events to coincide with the National March for Equality this October.
March and Rally
Forty years after the Stonewall Rebellion, we march in solidarity with our brothers and sisters and allies in Washington, DC to demand equal protection in all matters governed by civil law in all 50 states and to show our public support for the Approval of Referendum 71 here in Washington state.
Sunday, October 11
2:00 pm: Volunteer Park, 10th Ave E & E Prospect
5:00 pm: Rally, Federal Courthouse, 7th & Stewart
Thinking Queerly: Community Workshops on LGBT Issues
Community organizers and activists will present a series of workshops on a range of issues affecting the lgbt community including Stonewall and lgbt movement history, homelessness, hate crimes and self defense, lgbt health, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, lgbt legal issues, Gay-Straight Alliances, marriage equality, and more.
Saturday, October 10
9:30 am to 5 pm
Piggot Auditorium, Seattle University
HIV/AIDS Vigil
As the AIDS pandemic nears its fourth decade, we gather to educate and raise awareness about the continued struggles of people living with HIV/AIDS and their families, friends, and support networks as well as to demand all resources and all funding necessary for prevention, treatment, and a cure.
Saturday, October 10
Starting at 6 pm
Seattle Central Community College South Plaza, Broadway & E Pine
Generation Q Mega Mixer
Come mingle and mix with seasoned leaders and activists of the GLBTQ community at the Generation Q Mega Mixer. Young leaders (25 and under please) will have the opportunity to socialize, learn from, and quite possibly have a dance off with some of the community's most inspiring members in a relaxed social environment.
Sunday, October 11
6:30 pm
Sole Repair Shop, 1001 E Pike
Seattle LGBT Equality Weekend March & Rally
http://nationalmarch.seattleoutprotest.o…
Get involved with one of our planning committees! Contact for more time and details:
March/Rally Committee, March@seattleoutprotest.org
Workshops Committee, Workshops@seattleoutprotest.org
Outreach Committee, Outreach@seattleoutprotest.org
Mixer Committee, Mixer@seattleoutprotest.org
HIV/AIDS Vigil Committee, Vigil@seattleoutprotest.org
Biweekly General Organizing Meetings, please contact whitney@seattleoutprotest.org for time and location.
National Equality March: Equality Across America
www.equalityacrossamerica.org
Approve Referendum 71
Keep the Domestic Partnership Law
11
People are apt to over react when their children might be in harm's way. Anyone who takes someone's children is liable to be beaten to death if the police don't get there first. I'm not saying that's right. But you just don't mess with people's kids. And when they're criminals with a violent past, you will get handed your ass.
12
@5: Probably I wouldn't cut someone's throat with a piece of broken glass and throw a TV onto his head.
But I don't really like kids, so...
But I don't really like kids, so...
14
Sounds methy is right. Charges should be brought against the people that beat Bell and his partner. That said, Bell must be a special kind of stupid to think taking those kids to his apartment would turn out any other way.
15
I'm gay, I have a kid, and if someone just happened to walk off with her from a party I would have caved his fucking face in.
Here's why these people aren't being charged with a crime:
"who apparently were unaware the children were safe"
It's actually not a crime to hurt when you have a sincere, reasonable belief that this person is about to hurt someone else. That's why a cop can shoot someone to save someone else, or you can punch a guy in the face as he strangles his girlfriend, etc.
Is it the truth? Who knows. Would any jury convict someone of an assault if there was genuine possibility it was on behalf of a child? No way. The cops were right to not waste taxpayer money pursuing charges. Now, carrying off a 2 and 4 year old back to your bedroom from a party without telling anyone "so they could sleep" is FAR more dubious.
Here's why these people aren't being charged with a crime:
"who apparently were unaware the children were safe"
It's actually not a crime to hurt when you have a sincere, reasonable belief that this person is about to hurt someone else. That's why a cop can shoot someone to save someone else, or you can punch a guy in the face as he strangles his girlfriend, etc.
Is it the truth? Who knows. Would any jury convict someone of an assault if there was genuine possibility it was on behalf of a child? No way. The cops were right to not waste taxpayer money pursuing charges. Now, carrying off a 2 and 4 year old back to your bedroom from a party without telling anyone "so they could sleep" is FAR more dubious.
16
Yes, I would be filled with rage if someone took off with my kid—but... I would refrain from cutting that person's throat, for fear of being charged with a crime myself. I would call the cops, not bash heads into sidewalks and throw TVs at people. Because vigilante justice is... wrong. Whether fags are doing it or it's being done to 'em.
And who's telling us that these five pillars of the community didn't know the kids were back and safe? Oh, right: the five guys who beat the shit out of these two. You can take that to the bank, man.
And who's telling us that these five pillars of the community didn't know the kids were back and safe? Oh, right: the five guys who beat the shit out of these two. You can take that to the bank, man.
17
Were Bell and Fair having public sex on nasty floors? Were they retted out by an angry queen? By all means, champion their cause when none of the facts are known and assume and accuse everyone involved of anti-gay bigotry.
18
Really Dan? What if you didn't think DJ was safe? Would you let something happen to him because you were too scared of "being charged with a crime myself?" Would you sit there while he's in some freak's house and start making phone calls instead of doing something?
Vigilante justice would be heading back into that house once the kids were out, or heading over the next day, or whatever. It is not vigilante justice to act aggressively if you think your child (or anyone else's) is in acute danger. In fact, I think it is a moral imperative to act aggressively.
And sure, it's entirely possible that these people knew the kids were safe and are lying and are guilty of assault. But it's also entirely possible that they didn't. There's no way to prove it. And as we all know, guilt has to be 'beyond a reasonable doubt.' Well, gee, I think there's some reasonable doubt here.
But there is physical evidence that Mr. Creepy carried off two rather large children from their home into his house. Maybe he wanted to fuck them until they bled. Maybe he wanted them to have a nice nap on his couch. No way to know. But I'm pretty sure it's a crime either way.
Vigilante justice would be heading back into that house once the kids were out, or heading over the next day, or whatever. It is not vigilante justice to act aggressively if you think your child (or anyone else's) is in acute danger. In fact, I think it is a moral imperative to act aggressively.
And sure, it's entirely possible that these people knew the kids were safe and are lying and are guilty of assault. But it's also entirely possible that they didn't. There's no way to prove it. And as we all know, guilt has to be 'beyond a reasonable doubt.' Well, gee, I think there's some reasonable doubt here.
But there is physical evidence that Mr. Creepy carried off two rather large children from their home into his house. Maybe he wanted to fuck them until they bled. Maybe he wanted them to have a nice nap on his couch. No way to know. But I'm pretty sure it's a crime either way.
20
They deserved to have their brainless skulls smashed in for kidnapping their violent criminal neighbor's kids or for being so fucking stupid that they don't deserve to live.
21
"Broken glass" to cut someone? This idiots are established criminals, and no one could find or use a knife? If you're serious about kicking someone's ass to get your kids back, you don't use a TV or broken glass. Sounds totally meth-y.
22
these animals were way over the top.
smashing the guys head with a big TV?
anything larger than a portable 12 inch set is excessive...
smashing the guys head with a big TV?
anything larger than a portable 12 inch set is excessive...
23
This is very fishy. We're supposed to believe a nice Utah family with kids would have invited the fags to their party?
24
"Vigilante justice would be heading back into that house once the kids were out, or heading over the next day, or whatever. It is not vigilante justice to act aggressively if you think your child (or anyone else's) is in acute danger. In fact, I think it is a moral imperative to act aggressively."
That's exactly what happened—the kids were out, returned, safe.
Read is fundamental. And, again, I didn't say Bell was innocent. But it's good to know that, if DJ ever turns up in the home of a stranger, Slog commenters will come to my defense when I cut the throat of the person—innocent though he may be—that I found him with. His first girlfriend better watch out.
That's exactly what happened—the kids were out, returned, safe.
Read is fundamental. And, again, I didn't say Bell was innocent. But it's good to know that, if DJ ever turns up in the home of a stranger, Slog commenters will come to my defense when I cut the throat of the person—innocent though he may be—that I found him with. His first girlfriend better watch out.
25
yeah i think these crackers went overboard in the retribution department but do you REALLY know how you would react if someone took your kid?
And, to be honest, I'm a bit suspicious of these gay guys...they're either very, very stupid or they were seriously fucked up themselves or, and it's sad to say, maybe they did have ulterior motives in taking the kids...the whole "you guys are so beautiful" thing is pretty fucking creepy.
And, everyone here is guilty of something...the gay couple for being stupid (at best), the neighbors for assaulting them, the county attorney for not filing some charges for the assault and Dan for presuming that the gay couple is innocent of wrong-doing just because they're gay in a red state...
And, to be honest, I'm a bit suspicious of these gay guys...they're either very, very stupid or they were seriously fucked up themselves or, and it's sad to say, maybe they did have ulterior motives in taking the kids...the whole "you guys are so beautiful" thing is pretty fucking creepy.
And, everyone here is guilty of something...the gay couple for being stupid (at best), the neighbors for assaulting them, the county attorney for not filing some charges for the assault and Dan for presuming that the gay couple is innocent of wrong-doing just because they're gay in a red state...
27
This can't stand-
we have to teach them that they can't treat teh Gays this way...
I know!
Let's all the homos boycott Utah!!
What do you think, Dan?
we have to teach them that they can't treat teh Gays this way...
I know!
Let's all the homos boycott Utah!!
What do you think, Dan?
28
I'm sorry, Dan, I should have said "Vigilante justice would be heading back into that house once *you knew* the kids were out." Implied in the context of our discussion, but it sounds like you needed a straw to grasp at - so enjoy!
Speaking of context, I think it's a bit of hyperbole to compare DJ hanging out with someone his own age to a 4 year old being literally carried off without their parents' knowledge. My hunch is that if you honestly thought DJ was in acute danger you might actually hurl a TV or two yourself. It's okay, I won't tell....
Speaking of context, I think it's a bit of hyperbole to compare DJ hanging out with someone his own age to a 4 year old being literally carried off without their parents' knowledge. My hunch is that if you honestly thought DJ was in acute danger you might actually hurl a TV or two yourself. It's okay, I won't tell....
29
"I don't know enough about this case to declare that Bell shouldn't be charged with a crime." Precisely.
People in the real world are able to see the irreversible damage that could've been inflicted to these kids. Children are innocent and don't have the body or mental capabilities to consent to or confront a couple of grown men, that's why charges are being brought against only Bell mr Savage. They (the parents) should've called the cops on them immediately rather than confronting Bell and the other man but no parent knows what reaction they would have if they saw their kids in such a situation, so i'm no one to pass judgement on them. But leave it up to you to see bigotry in the defense of children.
People in the real world are able to see the irreversible damage that could've been inflicted to these kids. Children are innocent and don't have the body or mental capabilities to consent to or confront a couple of grown men, that's why charges are being brought against only Bell mr Savage. They (the parents) should've called the cops on them immediately rather than confronting Bell and the other man but no parent knows what reaction they would have if they saw their kids in such a situation, so i'm no one to pass judgement on them. But leave it up to you to see bigotry in the defense of children.
31
@29: Your violent, irrational and vigorous hate is a terrible liability, Loveschild. You're definitely the type of parent who would beat their children or worse if they came out of the closet. I will have my grandmother pray for the safety of your kids and hope they have sense enough to know the potential for emotional violence or worse in your household.
33
this happened over a year ago.
isn't there some kind of gay 'barking chain' to alert you people when one of you is in trouble?
isn't there some kind of gay 'barking chain' to alert you people when one of you is in trouble?
34
"Lulu Latu paused several times to cry while testifying..."
start measuring this freak for a noose
start measuring this freak for a noose
35
According to some reports the beaters were members of Tongan Crips.
Bell will be a popular dance partner when he gets to the big house.
Bell will be a popular dance partner when he gets to the big house.
36
"The attack has sparked outrage among Bell's family and members of the gay community who are calling the incident a hate crime. However, Valerie Larabee, executive director of the Utah Pride Center, is now satisfied that law enforcement and the judicial system has taken its course and uncovered the facts in this case."
37
Dan-
No "Youth Pastor Watch" style mug shots because the perp is Gay?
http://media.bonnint.net/slc/574/57408/5…
No "Youth Pastor Watch" style mug shots because the perp is Gay?
http://media.bonnint.net/slc/574/57408/5…
38
This sounds like cultural bigotry against Gay people on the part of Mormon people. Of course Gay men are notorious for their stupidity. This is yet one more example. It's well known the Mormons have colonized many Pacific Island nations with their brand of Death style known as The LDS. Had Mr Latu been married (4 times) with kids (20 or so) he most likely would not have been attacked for his rampant stupidity.
40
Of course, the facts are severely lacking as to what happened, but somehow I get the feeling that the kids were less safe at the party than they were at the gay couple's apartment.
Important safety tip: If you're at a party where substances are being used (even alcohol or E) and all the adults are stoned out of their inhibitions and there are kids about who have no place to go to be unmolested by the grown-ups, don't rescue them.
Especially if you're gay in Utah.
Important safety tip: If you're at a party where substances are being used (even alcohol or E) and all the adults are stoned out of their inhibitions and there are kids about who have no place to go to be unmolested by the grown-ups, don't rescue them.
Especially if you're gay in Utah.
41
I thought I heard that the kids wandered over to his place, not that he brought them over to his place.
43
@42
Which, by UT standards, feels like a Netherlandsish diversity fest.
This was such a low-rent crime. As time goes by, poor folks won't be dropping large TV's on their victims' heads when they brawl. They'll be beating them repeatedly over the head with flat panel TV's.
Which, by UT standards, feels like a Netherlandsish diversity fest.
This was such a low-rent crime. As time goes by, poor folks won't be dropping large TV's on their victims' heads when they brawl. They'll be beating them repeatedly over the head with flat panel TV's.
46
Just an observations:
"Tlulu Latu" is clearly a polynesian name.
This tells me they aren't that used to the American way of calling the police when a crime was committed. They are more familiar with "do it yourself" justice.
And, yes, South Salt Lake it teaming with crime, drug use and gang activity.
"Tlulu Latu" is clearly a polynesian name.
This tells me they aren't that used to the American way of calling the police when a crime was committed. They are more familiar with "do it yourself" justice.
And, yes, South Salt Lake it teaming with crime, drug use and gang activity.
47
@15: Except that dragging a dude outside when he's already down, slamming his head into the sidewalk, and slicing him up wouldn't do anything to preserve the kids' safety even if they were still in the house. I do agree that, if they'd kicked down the door, punched him in the face, pinned him down, and demanded to know where the kids were, prosecuting them would likely be inappropriate. As it is . . . not so much.
48
25 & 29 - oh my god, can either of you read. Dan didn't say the gay couple was innocent. Say it with me: BOTH GROUPS WERE IN THE WRONG.
BOTH.
Two groups of people fucked up. Dan said as much.
There, was that so hard?
BOTH.
Two groups of people fucked up. Dan said as much.
There, was that so hard?
49
Quite a few of the "facts" presented here are dubious. For example, a witness related to Ms. Latu reportedly saw the kids knocking on Bell's door. Other items are being assumed incorrectly. For example, Fair was asleep and (in no reports I've read) has he been said to have been at the party, although Bell was.
50
You all should check out www.injustice801.com. It gives Fair and Bell's version of the events that night. It also shows some very graphic pictures of the beating Fair received...
51
Yes, yes, everyone probably could have handled it better. However, the law often allows what honor forbids. Dan thinks charges weren't pressed against the assailants because of anti-gay bigotry. I think it's probably because there's no way to prove they didn't honestly believe a child was in immediate danger, and therefore the chance of a conviction was nil. Waste of time to pursue.
This is all based on the facts presented in the original article Dan linked to. So, if more information comes forward indicating that Bell was beaten by people who already *knew* the children were safe, then by all means throw the book at 'em.
This is all based on the facts presented in the original article Dan linked to. So, if more information comes forward indicating that Bell was beaten by people who already *knew* the children were safe, then by all means throw the book at 'em.
52
"The attack has sparked outrage among Bell's family and members of the gay community who are calling the incident a hate crime. However, Valerie Larabee, executive director of the Utah Pride Center, is now satisfied that law enforcement and the judicial system has taken its course and uncovered the facts in this case."
53
@ 47 - Totally agree. The issue here is, though, whether or not there is enough evidence to verify either side of the distinction you describe. If there are differing accounts about the (a) motive of the attack and (b) sequence of events of the attack itself, you're kind of fucked if you're trying to build a case. How do we know he was dragged outside? Are there witnesses who say that, or is that what the injured party says? I have no idea. Unless there's some physical evidence that comes forward that contradicts one of the accounts, we may have nothing but hearsay to go on with this one.
The DAs job is to pick cases that can be won in court. He or she has both the right and the responsibility to drop cases where there is no chance of getting a conviction based on the available evidence and the likelihood of getting a jury convinced, even if they suspect individuals involved were motivated by spite and nothing else. On the flip side, the DA may also be a homophobic bastard who hates gay people, or the case may have been hopelessly crippled by homophobic cops who didn't bother to collect enough evidence or take statements. There's no way for us to know, unless more evidence or reliable witness testimony becomes available.
The DAs job is to pick cases that can be won in court. He or she has both the right and the responsibility to drop cases where there is no chance of getting a conviction based on the available evidence and the likelihood of getting a jury convinced, even if they suspect individuals involved were motivated by spite and nothing else. On the flip side, the DA may also be a homophobic bastard who hates gay people, or the case may have been hopelessly crippled by homophobic cops who didn't bother to collect enough evidence or take statements. There's no way for us to know, unless more evidence or reliable witness testimony becomes available.
54
I have read all of these statements and I have not heard anyone mention the damage that the parents may have had on their OWN kids. Those of us in Utah who know these people personally know that Lulu is a hyper-sensitive, manipulative, drug addict / alcoholic, as are many of the people who were at that "party" that night. Her children are probably being "passed around" between family members already - let alone neighbors "kidnaping" them in the night. I can't even remember how many times we've walked past that house and saw those kids crying outside in the hot sun, sometimes without any clothes on the little one, pounding on the door for someone to let them in. They are neglected at the very least, and who knows what else with the family's history taken into consideration.
I don't know Bell or Dan. But I know Lulu. They're crazy familiy is finally gone from our neighborhood thank god. It is sad that it had to come at the expense of two innocent gay men.
I don't know Bell or Dan. But I know Lulu. They're crazy familiy is finally gone from our neighborhood thank god. It is sad that it had to come at the expense of two innocent gay men.
55
I have read all of these statements and I have not heard anyone mention the damage that the parents may have had on their OWN kids. Those of us in Utah who know these people personally know that Lulu is a hyper-sensitive, manipulative, drug addict / alcoholic, as are many of the people who were at that "party" that night. Her children are probably being "passed around" between family members already - let alone neighbors "kidnaping" them in the night. I can't even remember how many times we've walked past that house and saw those kids crying outside in the hot sun, sometimes without any clothes on the little one, pounding on the door for someone to let them in. They are neglected at the very least, and who knows what else with the family's history taken into consideration.
I don't know Bell or Dan. But I know Lulu. They're crazy familiy is finally gone from our neighborhood thank god. It is sad that it had to come at the expense of two innocent gay men.
I don't know Bell or Dan. But I know Lulu. They're crazy familiy is finally gone from our neighborhood thank god. It is sad that it had to come at the expense of two innocent gay men.
58
Good to know that people are so judgemental...well as "the mother" I know the truth and am not afraid to stand up for my kids. I know people dont believe that a parent can be responsible while having a good time...can any of you honestly say you've never had a family party with your kids home? I hope no parent will ever have to feel or go through this agony, especially being doubted.
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