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News & ArtsMonday, September 21, 2009
Books / Nerd In Comic Books, the Machine Rages Against You
Posted by Paul Constant on Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:40 PM
The estate of Jack Kirby is suing Disney and Marvel to regain the copyrights on characters that Kirby created for Marvel. The fans are outraged...at the Kirby estate:
Greedy bastards.
Marvel needs to hire someone to plant some drugs on this guy and get him sent down the river for a few years.
what a bunch of Socialists comic readers are...how about the Kirby Children earn some money by doing some work themselves.
And then Alan Moore complained about how modern superhero comics are "desperate and humiliating." He said this because Blackest Night, a crossover in DC Comics right now, is almost entirely based on one 8-page story that Moore wrote almost 25 years ago. The response can best be defined by this single comment:
Dear Alan Moore,
Get over yourself you pretentious, arrogant, snake worshipping, pedophillia obsessed has been. Here's an idea, instead of whining endlessly about how shit superhero comics are, how about you stand up and show us how it should actually be done?
Somewhere, Superman is smiling down on us all.
1
LOST GIRLS was a masterpiece...why the fuck would Alan Moore ever want to backslide into lame-ass superheroes?
3
Shut your face slaggy, I want some more Alan Moore superhero comics! As for whomever wrote that blurb to Alan Moore, He needs to try READING his superhero work. People like that usually crap all over him because they refuse to read book-like excerpts in their comics.
4
"what a bunch of Socialists comic readers are...how about the Kirby Children earn some money by doing some work themselves."
Probably said by someone who uses the term "Death Tax".
Probably said by someone who uses the term "Death Tax".
5
"... instead of whining endlessly about how shit superhero comics are, how about you stand up and show us how it should actually be done?"
Thing is, he did.
Thing is, he did.
8
Paul, you should read "Stan Lee: The rise and fall of the American comic". I think anybody who reads that book will understand just how much Jack Kirby got ripped off.
9
Regarding Kirby, I'm sorry, it's unfair, but what Kirby did was creating characters for his employer, plain old work for hire. He could have taken the hard route and gone independent, and then he would have owned his creations outright, but he didn't.
Regarding Alan Moore, yeah, yeah, Blackest Night is totally stolen from Tygers. So what? We're supposed to feel bad because when you were writing a story based on characters someone else created owned by a company you worked for that had a mythos built up for decades, and it got used twenty years later for another story? As much as I love Alan Moore, it feels a bit like Shakespeare bitching about Kurosawa being derivative.
Regarding Alan Moore, yeah, yeah, Blackest Night is totally stolen from Tygers. So what? We're supposed to feel bad because when you were writing a story based on characters someone else created owned by a company you worked for that had a mythos built up for decades, and it got used twenty years later for another story? As much as I love Alan Moore, it feels a bit like Shakespeare bitching about Kurosawa being derivative.
10
Jack Kirby did get screwed.
However, Moore doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to Blackest Night because he's not actually reading it. He's eccentric and judgmental. It is ironic that a man who has published many works based on the work of other people (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Green Lantern, Jim Lee's WildC.A.T.s, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Avengers, Rob Liefeld's Supreme, Youngblood, Glory...)
It's not like everything he does is a unique masterpiece. People in glass houses (with the windows blacked out) shouldn't throw stones. He worked on Supreme! SUPREME!
I'll take Geoff John's work any day of the week. He's also significantly more grounded than Alan. I like his tweets about cereal.
However, Moore doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to Blackest Night because he's not actually reading it. He's eccentric and judgmental. It is ironic that a man who has published many works based on the work of other people (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Green Lantern, Jim Lee's WildC.A.T.s, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Avengers, Rob Liefeld's Supreme, Youngblood, Glory...)
It's not like everything he does is a unique masterpiece. People in glass houses (with the windows blacked out) shouldn't throw stones. He worked on Supreme! SUPREME!
I'll take Geoff John's work any day of the week. He's also significantly more grounded than Alan. I like his tweets about cereal.
11
Kirby is one of my personal heroes, but i can see where Marvel is coming from.
And that Moore bashing comment is funny. Hey guy-who-reinvented-comic-books, maybe you should write a good super hero comic.
Classic nerd flame war sloganeering.
And that Moore bashing comment is funny. Hey guy-who-reinvented-comic-books, maybe you should write a good super hero comic.
Classic nerd flame war sloganeering.
12
Modern superhero comic books are for retards.
Bonus points, Gitai, for the extra-retarded comparison of Geoff Johns to Kurosawa(!) - holy shit
Bonus points, Gitai, for the extra-retarded comparison of Geoff Johns to Kurosawa(!) - holy shit
13
The thing is, if KIRBY were suing I would support him 100%. But I don't agree with this idea of copyright lasting so long beyond the death of author. Let's just make Spiderman public domain and save the court some time.
14
If your dad got fucked over as bad as Kirby did are you saying you wouldn't go to bat for him? Kirby worked his ass off to raise and support his family and now his family is not entitled to that money? Here's what I'd say, "Fuck you, pay me."
15
jsteel@10: Dude, Moore's run on Supreme was an amazing tribute/piss-take/love-letter to the 1960s-80s Superman/JLA/Titans chronology. It'll never go down as his best work, and it's certainly pretty opaque to non-fans, but it's more than worthy of respect, especially given that he did it as work-for-hire on a Rob Liefield (!) title.
16
@15 You're missing the point. Moore is complaining about how unoriginal it is for Geoff Johns (the current writer of Green Lantern and The Flash) to reference Alan Moore's previous Green Lantern story. Alan Moore had a prophecy about the future in the GL universe. 15 years later might be considered "future" enough for some. Johns, as a fan of Moore's GL work, wanted to write this story.
Moore on the other hand, writes homages and redresses of writing, and characters, that have existed before and he's a creative genius. He may have an interesting "take" on Supreme, but how does he factually know that Geoff Johns isn't writing a good story (loosely) based on his prophecy? Alan Moore even admits that he hasn't actually read any part of it.
Alan Moore just isn't a genius. I really like Watchmen, I do, honestly, but even parts of that are derivative, or contain references and homages to the work of other people. Watchmen is still a good book.
Paul didn't put a link to the complete interview, but here is a site with some good excerpts from the interview
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2009/09/21/a…
"I increasingly get a sense of the comics industry going through my trashcan like raccoons in the dead of the night… That’s a good image, isn’t it? They weren’t even particularly good ideas."
Congratulations Alan Moore on being bitter and resentful of yourself. Also, thanks for digging through the trashcans of the Superman/JLA writers for your Supreme work.
Moore on the other hand, writes homages and redresses of writing, and characters, that have existed before and he's a creative genius. He may have an interesting "take" on Supreme, but how does he factually know that Geoff Johns isn't writing a good story (loosely) based on his prophecy? Alan Moore even admits that he hasn't actually read any part of it.
Alan Moore just isn't a genius. I really like Watchmen, I do, honestly, but even parts of that are derivative, or contain references and homages to the work of other people. Watchmen is still a good book.
Paul didn't put a link to the complete interview, but here is a site with some good excerpts from the interview
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2009/09/21/a…
"I increasingly get a sense of the comics industry going through my trashcan like raccoons in the dead of the night… That’s a good image, isn’t it? They weren’t even particularly good ideas."
Congratulations Alan Moore on being bitter and resentful of yourself. Also, thanks for digging through the trashcans of the Superman/JLA writers for your Supreme work.
17
jsteel2005 has touched on this already, but Blackest Night is not "almost entirely based" on Alan Moore's "Tygers" short story. Writers Geoff Johns and Peter Tomasi have introduced a lot of original concepts of their own over the last few years that figure quite heavily into the whole thing. While many of the characters Moore created for his Green Lantern short stories have been reintroduced, they've also been fleshed out and used to a far greater extent than anything Moore ever did with them.
Unfortunately, Moore does not read any of this stuff, so he's voicing an opinion based off things that he's heard rather than what he's read.
Unfortunately, Moore does not read any of this stuff, so he's voicing an opinion based off things that he's heard rather than what he's read.
18
I dislike Moore because of the hypocricy--comics have afforded him a very comfortable life, but to listen to him tell it there hasn't been anything worth a damn put out since the last thing he wrote.
19
@TheRain- I would argue that no, in fact, there HASN'T been anything as good as the last thing Alan Moore put out since then.
Or are you not reading LoEG: Century?
Or are you not reading LoEG: Century?
20
kirby's heirs are doing exactly what a comic book company would do if it were in their situation, so really people are debating the same point. they arent suing to redress previous alleged grievances, they're filing typical legal paperwork that may or may not revert some ownership to them, all in due process of current copyright law. and if they win, they will then immediately license out to whoever makes them the most money, just like marvel and dc do. its just slightly less money for a publicly traded company if they win, nothing else will change.
and who cares what alan moore says? his work still rocks and if your current tastes happen to diverge from his, big deal. it shouldnt bother anyone, its an opinion.
two total non issues.
and who cares what alan moore says? his work still rocks and if your current tastes happen to diverge from his, big deal. it shouldnt bother anyone, its an opinion.
two total non issues.
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