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Thursday, September 17, 2009

Savage Love Letter of the Day

Posted by on Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:23 PM

An email exchange...

This week you posted a letter from "Feeling Fucking Frustrated" and explained to her that her insecurities have become a fetish. I think that I am in a similar situation. My boyfriend cheated on my last year, and it was terrible. But often times I find myself thinking about him and his "fuck buddy" together, and it REALLY gets me off. But then, after the getting off is over, I feel like shit for thinking about my boyfriend and the guy who almost destroyed our relationship.

You advised FFF to work with her little fetish, but do you think I should do the same? Should I let my boyfriend fuck whoever and purposely leave tracks so I will find out, cry for months and months, but have some really great orgasms? Or should I just forget about the fetish and hope it goes away?

Stuck With A Fetish

My answer, SWAF's response, my response to SWAF's response, SWAF's response to mine, etc., after the jump.

I think you should ask your boyfriend if he still wants to sleep with other people, and, if he does and if he thinks it's likely he'll stray again, then you need to consider your options. You can leave him, I suppose, or you can open up your relationship a smidge. That doesn't mean letting your boyfriend fuck whoever whenever he wants. It means that if your open your relationship just a crack, you have to be included in the fun. Threeways? Gay cuckold?

Dan

We've talked about threesome before, and we both like the idea, it's just a matter of finding someone to have a threesome with. I think that would be really fun, and I would enjoy seeing my boyfriend have sex with someone else, but while being a part of it.

And we have discussed his desire to want to be with other people, and he says that he does not have any interest in it anymore. He says that after everything that he put me (and himself) though, he is done with promiscuous sex. So, that probably won't happen. I think that threesomes or some kind of group thing is my best bet. But, like I said before, one has to find someone who is interested in a long term fuck buddy kind of thing.

You mentioned leaving him... do you really think that is something I should consider?

SWAF

No I don't think you should consider leaving him, SWAF. If you weathered this—the infidelity—and got through it, you should definitely stay together. Because the odds that it will happen again with your next partner—the odds that he will cheat or you will cheat—if you have another closed relationship are roughly 100%. So if you can forgive the boyfriend you've got now, and forgive him sincerely, and move past this, then you're better off staying in this relationship. Otherwise you'll just go through this all over again with some other guy.

As for your fetish: does the boyfriend know you beat off thinking about what he did with that other dude? Have you told him?

Dan

No. I hate to say this, after reading your column for so long and hearing you say so much about how you should just forget inhibition and be open about your sexuality, but I am scared to tell him. I feel like it would really confuse/freak him out. I mean, we had to work really hard to get past him cheating on me. So, if I were to tell him now that I actually get off thinking about him and his fuck buddy getting together... I just don't know how that would translate.

SWAF

Why did you fear being cheated on? Why were you upset about the idea of him having sex with someone else before it happened? Because you imagined it would mean—that it had to mean—that your boyfriend didn't love you or want you anymore. You feared it would mean that he had fallen for this other person and that would be the end your relationship. What have you learned since your fear was realized? Since he cheated? That it didn't mean what you feared it would. He's still in love with you, he still wants you, he's still with you. It didn't end your relationship. So now, SWAF, you're able to relax, perhaps, you're able to see the sex he had with that other person—even picture it—without it symbolizing the death of your relationship. So now when mental images of your boyfriend and his fuck buddy pop into your head... you see the man you love, a hot guy, getting it on with another hot guy. All it is now, SWAF, is sex, not the beginning of the end. And the mental images are hot because the sex isn't a threat anymore, because the "worst" already happened and you worked through it and the idea of him having sex with someone sle doesn't mean, and may never have meant, what you feared it did. So now it's less threatening and more... well... just... hot.

I think you should tell your boyfriend the truth about what's going on in your erotic imagination—and tell him you're just as nonplussed by it as he might be, but... there it is. You don't have to apologize for your reaction to the infidelity—it was still cheating, still a betrayal—but now... gee... here you are.

Dan

I never ever thought of this before, but it makes perfect sense. I never really stopped to think about why I was afraid of infidelity, and what that means now that we've experienced infidelity and we're both still here. Thanks for the fantastic advice and fresh perspective. I wish you could help me with all of my relationship problems! Have a great evening. Thanks again.

SWAF

 

Comments (21) RSS

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Jeffrey in Chicago 1
Dan, amazing insight as usual. I can't explain how much I relate to this.
Posted by Jeffrey in Chicago http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf on September 17, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Chris in Vancouver WA 2
"My work is done here."
Posted by Chris in Vancouver WA on September 17, 2009 at 2:44 PM
gloomy gus 3
Beautiful work - you are in the groove, sir.
Posted by gloomy gus on September 17, 2009 at 2:44 PM
Fifty-Two-Eighty 4
Oh man. I'm happy you're the one dealing with this and not me.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on September 17, 2009 at 2:54 PM
kim in portland 5
Insightful.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on September 17, 2009 at 3:12 PM
seandr 6
It often seems you would need more information to help some of the people who write you. I know after reading many of the letters, there's a lot of additional information and clarification I'd like to have.

So, it's cool to see a dialog here rather than you just making some guesses and firing off a response. And it makes for interesting reading. I think its a good format to work into your column every once in a while.

Posted by seandr on September 17, 2009 at 3:14 PM
7
Can I too have a personal email exchange with Dan Savage? No fairsies.
Posted by olechka on September 17, 2009 at 3:18 PM
8
Dan is amazing. I'm a straight guy and I want him.
Posted by peace on September 17, 2009 at 3:39 PM
wittyreference 9
You sir have a gift.
Posted by wittyreference http://naboquote.posterous.com on September 17, 2009 at 3:45 PM
balderdash 10
This letter makes me wonder if I made a terrible mistake, splitting up with my partner recently. It wasn't about cheating, at least not directly, but... well, you know. Not that I wasn't already wondering if I made a terrible mistake. :(
Posted by balderdash http://introverse.blogspot.com on September 17, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Geni 11
So many people just assume that any infidelity HAS to end a relationship; they never even stop to think about why it's a problem. Lying and sneaking around are problems. Having sex with others does not have to be, not if all concerned are fully informed (or as informed as they wish to be), and if you keep insecurity to a minimum. That's tough - new relationships are full of that wonderful rush of lust, and they are unburdened by the minutia that sometimes crushes long-term relationships. So the person in the "middle" as it were has a special duty to work extra hard to keep their partners from feeling insecure. The minute jealousy rears its ugly head, you have a problem. But the problem isn't polyamory, the problem is jealousy.

This exchange is a perfect example of unexamined insecurity over infidelity. It sounds as if SWAF has very little to worry about, although in future, SWAF's partner needs to make sure he/she isn't left out. Lying and sneaking around definitely WILL kill a relationship.
Posted by Geni on September 17, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Jaymz 12
I had no idea Dan would commit this amount of time and energy and thought into a single, private exchange (and I do appreciate the retroactive SLOG share). Color me very impressed.
Posted by Jaymz on September 17, 2009 at 4:13 PM
Urgutha Forka 13
Dan, you're a man ahead of your time.

While many people (and I'm guilty of this too) often immediately think "cheating=partner must not love me anymore," you look at other possibilities and keep an open mind.

Nice work!
Posted by Urgutha Forka on September 17, 2009 at 4:23 PM
14
Come on, where are the moralists condemning Dan and his situational morality. The outrage at condoning non-monogamy. I am so disappointed.
Posted by Tom on September 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
15
Eeeps! Did I just hear Dan say "gay cuckold?!?!" I can remember a day when he said that didn't exist! (since us gay men are ... by nature ... well ... you know)

Yes, SWAF, you have unearthed your own gay cuckoldry ... I'm one ... to the point where I'd rather see him fucking someone rather than having sex with him myself (although that's great, too). It's crazy, it doesn't make any sense, and yes ... part of me is still jealous, but that's the part that turns me the fuck on.

Enjoy, be careful, and communicate, communicate, communicate. If you go through with this, it is playing with fire. If you do decide to tread the waters ... go slowly, slowly, slowly to make sure you don't freak out like before. First time I saw my guy kiss someone else (with my blessing), I nearly lost it ... but, now? It's a beautiful thing.
Posted by Phantomizer on September 17, 2009 at 4:31 PM
16
Hey, Phantomizer... here's what I wrote (bolds added):

The last time cuckolding came up in your column you wrote: "Huge numbers of straight men have cuckolding fantasies." As a straight man, I want to know: Are gay men with cuckolding fantasies few and far between?

Ever Lost Innocence


Until DNA tests came along, ELI, only maternity could be taken for granted; the cuckolding fetish is merely the boner-killing lemons of male sexual/paternal insecurity turned into deliciously perverted bonerade. Gay sex, on the other hand, doesn't make babies, only messes (which is all straight sex makes 99.98 percent of the time). Which may explain why, as a general rule, ELI, gay men aren't threatened when our partners are "taken" by other men. Many of us are only too delighted to share.

So when some other guy is doing, say, my boyfriend (or being done by him), ELI, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm being violated, humiliated, kicked out of my own bed, etc. It usually just means I'm having a three-way.

Usually.


There are always exceptions to the rule, Phantomizer. And by writing "it usually just means" that indicates, quite clearly, that at other times it might mean something else. Otherwise you would just write "it means," right?
Posted by Dan Savage on September 17, 2009 at 5:15 PM
17
I guess Dan ...

The only thing I would add is to make sure the boyfriend HIMSELF doesn't consider cheating a threat to the relationship. How much does he trust his emotions.

The other kind of quirky thing is, the likelyhood that this will happen. People are fucked up. I imagine the cheating occured when the other girl was competing for your boyfriends love by using sex and well, obviously the writer won. I suspect this is the type of conflict that gets fetishized. (Emotions are fucked up.) Maybe the boyfriend does not want to get used in that emotional tug of war again? And maybe that tug of war is what gets the writer off. Let's face it, it is hard to get people to sign up for consensual mind fucks, but best of luck.

Just make sure there is open dialogue and safe words before this relationship engages in relationship asphyxiation play.

Posted by former tri-state on September 17, 2009 at 9:41 PM
18
*sorry not "your" boyfriend, but "the" boyfriend or the "writer's" boyfriend.

Thought I proofed it, I just gymed it hard today.
Posted by former tri-state on September 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM
19
Advice like this is why I keep downloading the podcasts. It just makes so much more sense than the usual unworkable, unrealistic claptrap that the right-wing wingnuts will try to sell everyone regardless of anything.
Posted by YTAH http://ytah.wordpress.com/ on September 18, 2009 at 5:41 AM
20
Thank you for the proper usage of the word "nonplussed". I keep seeing people misusing that word to mean nonchalant and its rapidly becoming my number one pet peeve.
Posted by spalding on September 18, 2009 at 8:24 AM
21
Does Dan really believe that the chance of cheating in ANY closed gay male relationship are "roughly 100%"? If so, I should have a talk with my boyfriend....
Posted by sierraddict on September 18, 2009 at 4:48 PM

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