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News & ArtsThursday, September 17, 2009
Politics All Right America
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:18 AM
The worst thing about all of the noise (socialism this, communism that) fired from the right at their political opponent on the battlefield is that the Democratic Party, which dominates both houses, is barely (if at all) their enemy in actual terms:
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Amtrak would lose its federal subsidies if it doesn't put a system in place by early next year to check and track firearms so that passengers can legally put the weapons in their checked baggage, the Senate voted Wednesday.Guns in the parks, guns on the trains, guns at health care meetings. When will it end?One senator says the measure "is going to put a severe burden" on Amtrak.
The measure, an amendment to the transportation and housing appropriations bill, passed 68-30.
The House version of the bill, passed in July, does not include the provision, so further steps would be needed for it to reach President Obama's desk.
Amtrak's current policy prohibits passengers from carrying "any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives or weapon" in carry-on or checked baggage.
2
What's the problem? It is one of Amtrak's many ridiculous rules. It is easy to bring a gun on an airplane, in the checked baggage. You pack it unloaded in approved material. You declare it when you check your bags. They put a special sticker on the bag.
This isn't difficult, so what is Amtrak's problem?
Next question, why can't you bring a small, controlled animal on Amtrak, or any animal at all, even in a crate?
If train boosters want rail travel to be competitive in the US they need to make rail travel accommodating.
This isn't difficult, so what is Amtrak's problem?
Next question, why can't you bring a small, controlled animal on Amtrak, or any animal at all, even in a crate?
If train boosters want rail travel to be competitive in the US they need to make rail travel accommodating.
3
@2: So are you volunteering to check bags, then? 'cuz the feds stripped that money out a long time ago.
The reason rail travel won't be competitive is because the federal government is trying to strangle it. It's seriously Blumenauer, DeFazio and Biden against everyone.
The reason rail travel won't be competitive is because the federal government is trying to strangle it. It's seriously Blumenauer, DeFazio and Biden against everyone.
4
as 3 said, you don't go through any kind of bag check on amtrack - you just take the bag with you.
the pet ban is fucking stupid, though.
the pet ban is fucking stupid, though.
6
@3 There are checked bags now. You can check a motorcycle into train baggage. I am sure they can deal with a few rifle bags.
This requires:
1. Asking people before boarding if they will be checking in luggage.
2. Asking people to declare any firearms.
3. Attaching a sticker with a barcode and destination to any baggage with a firearm.
4. Scanning that sticker when the baggage is pulled.
In fact, I believe they already have the barcode and destination system in place. So they need, exactly what to enact this? A database programmer to add a check box "contains firearms" to their baggage check system (that might already exist to, just unused).
What did Amtrak do before 2001? Nothing stops them from returning to that except some words on paper that their own bureaucrats decided to write up. It's checked baggage carried outside of the passenger compartment, there is no security issue here.
I know that Amtrak is the red-headed stepchild of the US subsidized transportation network, but that has squat to do with Amtrak creating ridiculous rules that annoy potential passengers.
This requires:
1. Asking people before boarding if they will be checking in luggage.
2. Asking people to declare any firearms.
3. Attaching a sticker with a barcode and destination to any baggage with a firearm.
4. Scanning that sticker when the baggage is pulled.
In fact, I believe they already have the barcode and destination system in place. So they need, exactly what to enact this? A database programmer to add a check box "contains firearms" to their baggage check system (that might already exist to, just unused).
What did Amtrak do before 2001? Nothing stops them from returning to that except some words on paper that their own bureaucrats decided to write up. It's checked baggage carried outside of the passenger compartment, there is no security issue here.
I know that Amtrak is the red-headed stepchild of the US subsidized transportation network, but that has squat to do with Amtrak creating ridiculous rules that annoy potential passengers.
8
@6: If it's so easy, why are they saying they'll pull funding if Amtrak doesn't immediately comply within a set timeline? It sounds like people are trying to string them up on a technicality.
You know, like they've always been doing. Like silly FRA rules that assume we have signaling and control systems from the 1800s.
Creating more rules to get around rules that seek to avoid other rules is just silly. Bureaucracy!!
You know, like they've always been doing. Like silly FRA rules that assume we have signaling and control systems from the 1800s.
Creating more rules to get around rules that seek to avoid other rules is just silly. Bureaucracy!!
9
@8, the one saying they are pulling funding are not the ones saying they will shut down. It's a bureaucratic pissing match, and, BONUS, politicians score empty propaganda points with their gun nut constituents. My point is, it doesn't need to be a pissing match. Amtrak is just being ornery defending a rule that doesn't need defending.
10
"When will it end?"
When will guns end? Charles you just showed your true colors that you are completely anti-gun, although I dont think that was a secret before.
Your feelings are what I consider to be the biggest liberal hypocrisy in America. You want to ban guns that protect but legalize drugs that harm? Ok, so I am in favor of legalizing drugs as I am a bleeding heart liberal like my fellow Seattleites but this just doesn't make sense.
Prohibition does nothing good and most of all does not prevent drug use/abuse. So why is it that prohibition of guns is a good idea? If someone wants to carry a gun onto a train illegally this won't change anything. All the current rules do is to prevent people from checking their gun the same as they would on an airplane.
I know that you don't like guns and that is fine. It is ridiculous for you to think that banning guns would ever be a good idea. It sort of works in Europe but there is still gun violence as well as plenty of knife and club violence to make up for it. Seriously Charles think this through.
When will guns end? Charles you just showed your true colors that you are completely anti-gun, although I dont think that was a secret before.
Your feelings are what I consider to be the biggest liberal hypocrisy in America. You want to ban guns that protect but legalize drugs that harm? Ok, so I am in favor of legalizing drugs as I am a bleeding heart liberal like my fellow Seattleites but this just doesn't make sense.
Prohibition does nothing good and most of all does not prevent drug use/abuse. So why is it that prohibition of guns is a good idea? If someone wants to carry a gun onto a train illegally this won't change anything. All the current rules do is to prevent people from checking their gun the same as they would on an airplane.
I know that you don't like guns and that is fine. It is ridiculous for you to think that banning guns would ever be a good idea. It sort of works in Europe but there is still gun violence as well as plenty of knife and club violence to make up for it. Seriously Charles think this through.
11
Hey, 5280, I will be in your be-yootiful state tonight to visit my peeps in Breckenridge. Pleasantries aside, I don't see the big deal in checking legal firearms from state to state, by individuals. I am thinking you are thinking the same way. The main thing about teh gunz is that the current laws need to be enforced strictly, and make room for the offenders by letting out nonviolents, ie the potheads, hooker lovers, etc. They can keep in the white collar crims, though, that doesn't bother me.
12
@9: They don't have the money, the people proposing the rule did not put the money in for the changes, and everyone knows that Amtrak is running on fumes. It's great that you're all "yay, 2nd amendment" and all, but please come down to the real world where these things take months and money to move forward, two things that are being withheld. Don't forget that the feds foot almost all of the bill for checking guns onto flights and the enforcement of those rules.
I have no doubt Amtrak would comply if given the leeway to implement the changes, but it's a bit suspicious that in a funding crunch Amtrak would be given a deadline to meet without the funds to meet it. Hmmmm...
I have no doubt Amtrak would comply if given the leeway to implement the changes, but it's a bit suspicious that in a funding crunch Amtrak would be given a deadline to meet without the funds to meet it. Hmmmm...
13
I'm inclined to believe that this has less to do with guns and more to do with some sort of internal pissing match, especially given the lop-sidedness of the vote.
My thoughts about guns are well-known by now, and should require no further elaboration. +1 to @10, though.
My thoughts about guns are well-known by now, and should require no further elaboration. +1 to @10, though.
14
@11, yeah, we're in agreement.
Bring some warm clothes; it's getting pretty chilly up in the mountains already.
Bring some warm clothes; it's getting pretty chilly up in the mountains already.
15
I'd like to see the subset of Amtrak riders who are regular gun-toters. It's probably four people.
16
They need to cut funding to Amtrak unless they start letting me shoot Buffalo from the train again!
17
If I can check a bag in a car that is inaccessable, I should be able to check a firearm. If it's a mandate, it should be funded. So there you go.
18
I don't know, Doug, you might be surprised. It happens often enough on airplanes that it doesn't even raise any eyebrows. I do it all the time.
19
@12, I'm not yay 2nd amendment, I'm anti-stupid rules. I'm more interested in traveling with a small dog than I am with a gun. Amtraks rules are no way, no how, not at any price, and for no rational reason.
If we agree to disagree about the cost and funding issue, then what is left? A nefarious underhanded plot to shutdown Amtrak by technicality?
If we agree to disagree about the cost and funding issue, then what is left? A nefarious underhanded plot to shutdown Amtrak by technicality?
20
@2 I agree entirely, though I do believe Feds should fund the effort as they do with airlines. It may be unfair that the Feds currently won't fund it, but Amtrak should still be doing so.
I take the train regularly (business class) and if I ever wanted to bring a gun I want to be able to do so, not be forced into taking an airplane 300 miles.
I take the train regularly (business class) and if I ever wanted to bring a gun I want to be able to do so, not be forced into taking an airplane 300 miles.
22
@15, here is part of the problem. You think you are talking about pistols and the whole stereotype of pistol packing gun nut that goes with pistols. The people this most affects are those with long guns: hunting rifles, competition target shooting, etc. Rural areas, where train travel is more useful, and where sport shooting is as normal as Walmart, are the ones who've been left out of the conversation because of the freakout concerns by urbanites over pistols. Even if city folk were entirely correct in their paranoia for pistols, there are entirely legitimate reasons to travel with firearms.
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