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News & ArtsTuesday, September 15, 2009
Sports An Ichiro Is an Ichiro Is an Ichiro
Posted by Chicago Fan on Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:42 AM
Sunday night, Ichiro Suzuki set another Major League record by getting his 200th hit, giving him nine seasons in a row with 200+ hits, surpassing the former record of eight held by Hall of Fame outfielder Wee Willie Keeler.
A little while back when Ichiro got his 2,000th career hit, there was speculation over whether he'd make it to 3,000 hits in the majors, and whether that, combined with his 1,278 hits back in Japan, would make him the all-time hits leader. Would he lose a step and the infield singles that come with them? Would injuries derail him? Would stats-mongers think his Japanese numbers worthy of inclusion in the total for comparative purposes, or are they the equivalent of minor league stats?
I'd make a more radical suggestion: if Ichiro plays ten more years he can surpass Pete Rose's record of 4,256 without counting his stats from Japan.
Ten more years would get Ichiro to roughly the same age that Rose played till, 45. Rose played 24 major league seasons , and in his last five years got only 107, 72, 35, 107 and 52 hits. Rose just hung on to beat Ty Cobb, and in his final years was in baseball shape only in the sense that he was,like a baseball, round.
Even if Ichiro loses some of his speed, his physical self-discipline and approach to the game makes it entirely possible he will maintain his 200+ hit a season pace. Even if he doesn't get another hit this season, and loses 10 per cent of his annual average of 226 hits/year, he'd still be on a pace for over 4,000 career hits. If he has a few more monster seasons like he had when he surpassed George Sisler for the all-time single season hits record, he could beat Rose as well.
1
With his ulcers and his intense psychology, I think Ichiro will burn out well before another ten years. I think his discipline and commitment are beyond reproach, but there is a physical price one pays for it, too.
2
But, @1, I believe that Ichiro is intelligent enough to change his internal mechanisms (pathologies, even?) to help get around these problems. Also, he is a good enough all around hitter and ball player that when his speed diminishes in another 3 or 4 years, he can take on a different approach to the game, such as going for more power numbers. So, I agree with CF, Ichiro can continue his epic run at Rose and be a first-ballot hall of famer. But, as the picture to my left exhibits, I may be biased. Arigato.
3
Assuming Ichiro remains healthy and continues to get at least 200 hits per season for the next five years -- not too far-fetched -- here's what'll happen:
2010: Ichiro would tie Pete Rose's record of ten career 200-hit seasons, which took Rose 17 seasons to reach. He could also set the Mariner career hits record, currently held by Edgar Martinez with 2,247.
2011: Ichiro would set the record with 11 career 200-hit seasons.
2012: Ichiro would set the record with 12 career 200-hit seasons. It will be the last year of his current contract with the M's, when he'll be 38.
2013: Ichiro would set the record with 13 career 200-hit seasons. With at least 2,805 hits in his MLB career, plus 1,278 hits in his Japanese career, he would have 4,083 career hits. He would also likely play for Team Japan in the third World Baseball Classic.
2014: Ichiro would set the record with 14 career 200-hit seasons. With at least 3,005 hits in his MLB career, plus 1,278 hits in his NPB career, he would have 4,283 career hits, passing Pete Rose's MLB career mark of 4,255 (and Julio Franco's international career record of 4,229 career hits). Ichiro will be 40 during the 2014 season. Though Rose's MLB record appears out of reach, he would become roughly the 30th player with 3,000 career MLB hits.
http://www.stevemandich.com/otherstuff/i…
2010: Ichiro would tie Pete Rose's record of ten career 200-hit seasons, which took Rose 17 seasons to reach. He could also set the Mariner career hits record, currently held by Edgar Martinez with 2,247.
2011: Ichiro would set the record with 11 career 200-hit seasons.
2012: Ichiro would set the record with 12 career 200-hit seasons. It will be the last year of his current contract with the M's, when he'll be 38.
2013: Ichiro would set the record with 13 career 200-hit seasons. With at least 2,805 hits in his MLB career, plus 1,278 hits in his Japanese career, he would have 4,083 career hits. He would also likely play for Team Japan in the third World Baseball Classic.
2014: Ichiro would set the record with 14 career 200-hit seasons. With at least 3,005 hits in his MLB career, plus 1,278 hits in his NPB career, he would have 4,283 career hits, passing Pete Rose's MLB career mark of 4,255 (and Julio Franco's international career record of 4,229 career hits). Ichiro will be 40 during the 2014 season. Though Rose's MLB record appears out of reach, he would become roughly the 30th player with 3,000 career MLB hits.
http://www.stevemandich.com/otherstuff/i…
4
Hits in Japanese ball counting or not, it would be great to see an honorable man be the all-time hits leader.
6
More immediate possibilities for Ichiro ...
Most seasons with 200+ hits: Pete Rose has 10, Ichiro has 9
Most consecutive seasons leading the league in hitting: Major league record is 3, held by several players, including Ichiro. He can break it next year.
Passing Pete Rose in number of 200+ hit seasons would take at least two more seasons. I doubt he will last 10 seasons, because, unlike Rose, I don't think he'll stick around if his skill level drops off. However, you are correct about his self-discipline. In that way, he reminds me of Nolan Ryan, who kept himself in great shape, had nearly perfect mechanics, and threw two no-hitters after he turned 40.
Most seasons with 200+ hits: Pete Rose has 10, Ichiro has 9
Most consecutive seasons leading the league in hitting: Major league record is 3, held by several players, including Ichiro. He can break it next year.
Passing Pete Rose in number of 200+ hit seasons would take at least two more seasons. I doubt he will last 10 seasons, because, unlike Rose, I don't think he'll stick around if his skill level drops off. However, you are correct about his self-discipline. In that way, he reminds me of Nolan Ryan, who kept himself in great shape, had nearly perfect mechanics, and threw two no-hitters after he turned 40.
7
ditto all above
Ichiro is plainly one of the best players baseball has seen. I hope we will get to see him play for a long time.
Ichiro is plainly one of the best players baseball has seen. I hope we will get to see him play for a long time.
9
Ichiro is pretty much the only reason I became a baseball fan. And yeah, I think if/when he loses some speed, he probably will think about it, decide to change his approach, and become successful in an entirely different way.
Also, I don't think Ichiro has ever had an ulcer problem until this year, and he's 35. So it's not like it's a common issue for him.
Also, I don't think Ichiro has ever had an ulcer problem until this year, and he's 35. So it's not like it's a common issue for him.
10
PS Ichiro could still pass Mauer in BA by the end of the season. He's been in a little slump lately but that never lasts long.
13
pete rose only fucked up as a manager, a position he should never have been put in, and never would have been but for the provincial bumpkins running the reds. as a player he was fucking awesome.
get off his jock.
get off his jock.
14
@13, you conveniently neglect to mention that it was Pete Rose the manager who kept putting Pete Rose the player into the lineup -- at FIRST BASE no less -- and thus made it possible for Pete Rose the player to play until 45 and to get to 4,256. Leaving aside the betting-on-his-own-team thing, which affected results -- Rose was making decisions on how to manage his pitching staff, for instance, at the behest of his bookies, not the desire to win. Rose threw games, in other words. There's just no way around it.
Ichiro won't get close. He'll probably get to 3,000, though, but I'll bet he's only got one or maybe two more 200-hit seasons left in him. But you never know; among his other accomplishments Ichiro is surely the MOST UNUSUAL player in the history of the game. It's a privilege to watch him do it.
Oh, and Will? Your freakish obsession with celebrities dying, or predicting their deaths, or cheering them, or whatever it is you're doing there -- it's creeping me out. Stop it. Seriously: try to go a whole week at least without typing "death" or "dead" here. OK?
Ichiro won't get close. He'll probably get to 3,000, though, but I'll bet he's only got one or maybe two more 200-hit seasons left in him. But you never know; among his other accomplishments Ichiro is surely the MOST UNUSUAL player in the history of the game. It's a privilege to watch him do it.
Oh, and Will? Your freakish obsession with celebrities dying, or predicting their deaths, or cheering them, or whatever it is you're doing there -- it's creeping me out. Stop it. Seriously: try to go a whole week at least without typing "death" or "dead" here. OK?
15
@13 Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame. Five minutes after he's fucking dead and cannot profit by charging more for his autograph and adding "HoF" to it. He bet on baseball, and that's the one unforgivable sin whether you're a player or a coach or a manager or the batboy.
16
Rose will never see the inside of the Hall unless he buys a ticket. But he's in good company. McGuire, Sosa, Clemens, Ortiz, Bonds, Rodriguez, and on and on.
17
Ichiro is moving back to Japan when his contract is up. He's always said he wants to retire with the blue wave.
His hits in Japan are actually worth more than the ones here. They say NPB is about 90% as good as the Majors, but the seasons were just 120 games in the 90s compared to 162 in the MLB. So 1278 his in Japan over five years is really like 1553 in the mlb
His hits in Japan are actually worth more than the ones here. They say NPB is about 90% as good as the Majors, but the seasons were just 120 games in the 90s compared to 162 in the MLB. So 1278 his in Japan over five years is really like 1553 in the mlb
18
i neglected to mention the details because i simply do not give a fuck. prior to marge schott's idiotic decision to hire him to manage the reds, he had a hall of fame career. at some point (when americans stop treating baseball as a religion) his transgressions will be trivial, and infamy will no longer disqualify you for admittance.
see @16 for the complete list of players who'll get in eventually.
see @16 for the complete list of players who'll get in eventually.
19
@18, throwing games is not trivial. It is at the core of sports ethics. Rose will never get in the Hall.
Taking steroids is trivial. Bonds and Clemens will get in, and deserve it.
Taking steroids is trivial. Bonds and Clemens will get in, and deserve it.
20
Hey Chicago Fan: We're gonna get to watch Ichiro go 4 for 4 against the Cubs in Safeco next year.
21
@20 See what I just wrote here:
http://www.theheckler.com/news/templates…
Already predicted as much.
http://www.theheckler.com/news/templates…
Already predicted as much.
22
Rose will get in the hall eventually.
Not saying the man wasn't a prick. But goddamn did he play great ball.
As far as the gambling, even his bookie says he never bet against the Reds.
Not saying the man wasn't a prick. But goddamn did he play great ball.
As far as the gambling, even his bookie says he never bet against the Reds.
23
OMG, how could you mention Ichiro and NOT link to Super Ichiro Crazy? Here you go: http://www.stevemandich.com/otherstuff/i…
24
Well, if throwing games isn't trivial, then Bill Bavasi, John McLaren and Jim Riggleman should be thrown out of baseball for the direction and creation of the 2008 Mariners, because if that campaign wasn't throwing a season I don't know what is ;P
Meanwhile, Ichiro's 200 hit season this year was more amazing than most others because this was the first year that injuries derailed any significant portion of his season. Until this year he played nearly every game, so after his injury hiatuses, he had fewer games to get to the same 200 hit total he amassed his previous seasons... yet he did.
Meanwhile, Ichiro's 200 hit season this year was more amazing than most others because this was the first year that injuries derailed any significant portion of his season. Until this year he played nearly every game, so after his injury hiatuses, he had fewer games to get to the same 200 hit total he amassed his previous seasons... yet he did.
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