Slog
News & ArtsFriday, September 11, 2009
City State Will Appeal Decision to Cloak R-71 Signers
Posted by Dominic Holden on Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:20 AM
Originally posted at 10:13 a.m. and updated at 11:20 a.m.
Washington State Attorney General Rob McKenna will appeal yesterday's decision by a federal judge to shield the names and addresses of everyone who signed the petition for Referendum 71. "We will be asking for an expedited review from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and a stay of the decision, which would release the signatures," says AG Office spokesman Dan Sytman.
"The bottom line is that we believe the signatures are public record," Sytman says. "Signature are not exempt from public disclosure; there are list of things exempt from public disclosure, but signatures for a referendum are not included."
"It's very good news. The public should expect nothing else," says Tom Lang, director of Knowthyneighbor.org, a group that publishes names and addresses of individuals who sign anti-gay petitions. But he says it's not just a matter of publishing the names of R-71 signers. The true value is maintaining a transparent lawmaking process as a safeguard against fraud. "The federal government should not restrict letting people know how these signatures were gathered," Lang says.
US District Court Judge Benjamin Settle issued a 17-page decision yesterday afternoon, siding with plaintiffs, who sought a block the release of petitions on the basis that releasing the names of the people who signed would cause them harm. Backers of Referendum 71, Protect Marriage Washington, argued that releasing the names and addresses would cause petition signers “immediate and irreparable deprivations of their First Amendment liberties."
The Secretary of State's office was the defendant in the case, represented by the state attorney general. (You can read the details on yesterday's ruling here.)
The case stems from Brian Murphy, who blogs as the Gay Curmudgeon, filing a records request for the petitions in late July. He intended to post the information on WhoSigned.org, thereby enabling gay people to civilly confront those who signed the petition.
Says Murphy, "There is a larger discussion we need to be having. We have one part of the constitution used to hide people who are advocating to take away rights and continue discrimination while another part of the constitution should be protecting the minority they are attacking." He adds: "When equal protection doesn’t work, the only thing minorities can do is get the greatest level of public scrutiny they can on a process to take away their rights or continue discrimination."
1
"thereby enabling gay people to civilly confront those who signed the petition"
dude, you do know many str8 folks support queer rights too, right?
dude, you do know many str8 folks support queer rights too, right?
2
The R-71 people have not played by the rules from the very beginning. R-71 should not be allowed on the ballot for any number of reasons, the biggest of which is that voting on the rights of a minority directly violates our civil rights. This whole thing is mind-blowingly stupid.
6
Because, you know, signing the petition didn't cause any deprivations of any rights or anything...
7
Awesome, the most pro gay lobby court on the nation, gee, I wonder what their ruling will be. If gay lobby groups aided by the state attorney succed at this, then those who will be put on harms way need to be prepared to take it to the supreme court of the land then.
Since gay lobby groups know that they can't make a legitimate case unto the people they want to waste time litigating and trying to complete their intimidation, then so be it.
Since gay lobby groups know that they can't make a legitimate case unto the people they want to waste time litigating and trying to complete their intimidation, then so be it.
8
@7: Gee, it's Republican Attorney General Rob McKenna appealing to the Supreme Court that upheld the state's DOMA.
10
this one has all the hallmarks of a supreme court decision. hope obama gets to appoint replacements for Scalia and Thomas before it gets there.
in the meantime, the bigots are winning the game.
in the meantime, the bigots are winning the game.
11
The names will be made public. It is outrageous that this judge cites first amendment rights and the individual's right to participate in the electoral process. We all understand that how one votes is a private matter. But signing an initiative is not voting. In signing an initiative, one "goes on record" to state that he or she wants a law to be created or changed. I mean I can look at the other signers' names on the initiative clipboard when signing it, can't I? Signing an initiative doesn't mean you are expressing your "vote." It means that you believe the matter at hand is worthy of being voted upon. This judge's decision is shameful.
12
Hey everybody, why don't we submit an initiative to restrict the rights of people like Loveschild? After all, if (s)he doesn't have any problem with a public vote to restrict the rights of GLBT people, (s)he shouldn't have any problem with a public vote to restrict his/her rights, right?
13
#7, the case goes far beyond your petty wish to hid your bigotry. This issue goes to the heart of an free open democracy. If you want to change the laws of our land, then you better be brave enough to stand up and be counted, otherwise go hide snivelling in your closet with your fellow bigots.
16
@8: This is being litigated in the federal courts, not the state courts.
Good on McKenna. However, he should have bothered to show up in court to defend his client the Secretary of State when the TRO was first filed. Failing to show up probably didn't help the Attorney General's cause in the hearing before the District Court.
Good on McKenna. However, he should have bothered to show up in court to defend his client the Secretary of State when the TRO was first filed. Failing to show up probably didn't help the Attorney General's cause in the hearing before the District Court.
17
9 Bull Connor, huh. This coming from someone who has routinely made derogatory remarks about African Americans just because they don't vote the way you want them to. Honey you have more in common with Connor than any hood wearing white southerner.
18
8 Of course republicans are known for changing sides and going along with what best suits their interest at the moment ,just look at Mary and her daddy Vader Dick Cheney. You're in good company with those folks Bacon.
19
@16: I got so caught up in explaining how his/her assumptions were wrong that I overextended things a bit! Dag.
@Loveschild: Why didn't you come to Slog Happy last night? You want to have the discussion, but you never showed up.
@Loveschild: Why didn't you come to Slog Happy last night? You want to have the discussion, but you never showed up.
20
Once the signatures, names, and addresses are posted next to the Fremont Bridge, you'll find out how many people had their names forged or were lied to for this Referendum.
21
The R-71 folks are just trying to tie this up in court until after the election. All they need to do is keep it in play and we won't know who the signers were until it's too late to be relevant.
23
@18: Loveschild, your entire argument (and perhaps your entire being) is based on finding the worst in those who don't treat others the way you'd like them to. Kim in Portland is a bad christian because she loves others and wants to see them happy. Riz is not black because he's pro-gay. The couple in Seaside were probably drug traffickers or prostitutes because there must have been a reason they were beat up. McKenna is evil because he doesn't believe in a shadow government.
Loveschild, you are really losing your grip on reality here.
Slog Happy is next month. If you really hold the convictions you do and aren't a white guy trolling Slog like I suspect you are, you can show up. After all, you know better than a well-practiced lawyer, state agencies and thousands of people who want justice. I think you can hold your own.
Loveschild, you are really losing your grip on reality here.
Slog Happy is next month. If you really hold the convictions you do and aren't a white guy trolling Slog like I suspect you are, you can show up. After all, you know better than a well-practiced lawyer, state agencies and thousands of people who want justice. I think you can hold your own.
24
@22: But that won't happen for two reasons:
1) There isn't a gay conspiracy :(
2) There's a 60/40 chance Loveschild is some white guy in Fremont.
1) There isn't a gay conspiracy :(
2) There's a 60/40 chance Loveschild is some white guy in Fremont.
25
@24 if I'm too diffident to come to Slog Happy, I can only imagine what it might take to get LC there.
26
"Signature are not exempt from public disclosure; there are list of things exempt from public disclosure..."
That Sytman guy talks like Boris Badinov..."Moose and Squirrel!!!"
That Sytman guy talks like Boris Badinov..."Moose and Squirrel!!!"
28
you poor poor gays...
it breaks my heart
to see you get your hopes up-
again and again-
only to be
cruelly dashed.
it breaks my heart
to see you get your hopes up-
again and again-
only to be
cruelly dashed.
29
@27: See, if it were Jason he'd instantly be my favorite fake-poster because Loveschild has been the perfect launchpad for smacking down NOM talking points and right wing nuttery (Poe's Law aside, it's really good practice).
But LC has said nice things about Democrats, which I doubt Jason has the stomach for. It goes against his whole persona.
But LC has said nice things about Democrats, which I doubt Jason has the stomach for. It goes against his whole persona.
30
23 Hey Bacon, you aside, cause although we are diametrically opposed on this issue i don't believe you capable of any violence we both come from the same state. Have you looked at 9 and the cross burner at 22 carefully? I have three kids that still need me Bacon, why in heavens would i embark on a suicidal mission? Not all of your comrades are able to control themselves like you. That coupled with the way your side is behaving by trying to find out the names and address of people who's only crime was signing a petition, in order to harass them.
32
gay groups pro gay groups pro disclosure groups:
hire a lawyer and move to intervene in this appeal or to be allowed a friend of the court brief.
do not rely on the state AG the republican McKenna who didn't even show up in court the first time.....first impressions count, don't they? Guess he couldn't be bothered.
So not rely on the republican secretary of state to argue the public nature of signatures for us.
Get off sidelines and get into court.
"Oh no, I'm sure our republican McKenna who wants to run for governor and our republican Sam Reed will protect us!"
Why take a chance, duh!
hire a lawyer and move to intervene in this appeal or to be allowed a friend of the court brief.
do not rely on the state AG the republican McKenna who didn't even show up in court the first time.....first impressions count, don't they? Guess he couldn't be bothered.
So not rely on the republican secretary of state to argue the public nature of signatures for us.
Get off sidelines and get into court.
"Oh no, I'm sure our republican McKenna who wants to run for governor and our republican Sam Reed will protect us!"
Why take a chance, duh!
33
I know AG Office spokesman Dan Sytman. He is a very partisan Republican. This must be killing him.
35
Loveschild dear, you apparently don't believe in backing up what passes for your faith with any actions, do you?
You want to be the big Christian victim, because that makes you feel important, and gives you someone to blame for your personal failings, but you don't want to have to actually take a stand on anything - at least not in a way where you will be publicly acknowledged for it.
You argue for keeping your light under a bushel, Loveschild. and that is betraying your faith. When you betray your faith, you betray God, Loveschild. And God doesn't forget.
"Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house." Matthew 5:15 (KJV)
You want to be the big Christian victim, because that makes you feel important, and gives you someone to blame for your personal failings, but you don't want to have to actually take a stand on anything - at least not in a way where you will be publicly acknowledged for it.
You argue for keeping your light under a bushel, Loveschild. and that is betraying your faith. When you betray your faith, you betray God, Loveschild. And God doesn't forget.
"Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house." Matthew 5:15 (KJV)
36
Oh Loveschild your children don't need you. I am quite sure they can steal enough purple drink and Funyuns to ensure their miserable sickle-cell existance without you.
37
LC:
Talk about not being able to control ones self...
You DO know what a condom is, right? Or an IUD? Or Deop-provera & Noristerat, right? Or, um, that abstinence thing you Xtians are always going on about?
Maybe, if you'd bothered to use one of these on a regular basis, you wouldn't be "burdened" with the need to single-handedly raise 3 offspring, all of whom will no doubt grow up to be a tremendous disappointment to you when they completely reject your bigoted, hateful self.
And I could have sworn you were at SLOG Happy last night. SOMEONE had "Loveschild" written on their name tag, so it MUST have been you, right?
Talk about not being able to control ones self...
You DO know what a condom is, right? Or an IUD? Or Deop-provera & Noristerat, right? Or, um, that abstinence thing you Xtians are always going on about?
Maybe, if you'd bothered to use one of these on a regular basis, you wouldn't be "burdened" with the need to single-handedly raise 3 offspring, all of whom will no doubt grow up to be a tremendous disappointment to you when they completely reject your bigoted, hateful self.
And I could have sworn you were at SLOG Happy last night. SOMEONE had "Loveschild" written on their name tag, so it MUST have been you, right?
38
@30: It's puzzling that you would think that you hold a high enough profile to be murdered or attacked physically. People may joke about you, but I can assure you that it's only as an archetype. Where does this unbecoming pride come from that you believe people are really that out to get you? At worst I'm sure you can expect someone to very vigorously reject you verbally, but physical violence? Come on. No Texan in Washington State that I know truly believes that folks here are capable of being violent. Heck, the crime rates in this region are painfully low that any violent act is cause for a commotion.
I've told you before that there is really no risk of violence against your person, and you've given me nothing but lukewarm explanations as to why you feel that way. You do the same in your reply @30, but it's the same ol'.
Your horse isn't going to gallop backwards, you know. You might wanna get yourself right before you set out.
So really, if your convictions are as lukewarm as your excuses, I can only assume no more than you being a troll or someone with an irrational dislike of others.
I've told you before that there is really no risk of violence against your person, and you've given me nothing but lukewarm explanations as to why you feel that way. You do the same in your reply @30, but it's the same ol'.
Your horse isn't going to gallop backwards, you know. You might wanna get yourself right before you set out.
So really, if your convictions are as lukewarm as your excuses, I can only assume no more than you being a troll or someone with an irrational dislike of others.
39
HA! loveschild ISN'T black, ISN'T a woman, and ISN'T just one person. it's a bunched of bored white men with no apparent social skills.
41
You all hate me don't you! ALL I want is to PROTECT Marriage from the Homos because once Homos gain Civil Equality in America God will curse this nation and we'll have all sorts of mayhem. Sorry it's you Homos that have to be treated as third class at best, but my life style choice of which belief system I want to adhere to is MUCH more important than ensuring America remain a strong and democratic nation. This attack against the signers of R-71 will lead to even more attacks and raids against str8 bars, even more str8 bashing than already exists, more str8 people being fired from their jobs than ever before, more str8 people being denied....what? you say that's not the case for str8 people? Huh? are you sure? Loveschild help me out here.
42
I'm sure I don't have to remind anyone of this but it's really important. When that list is released supporters of gay rights need to "CIVILLY confront those who signed the petition". If those names are released and suddenly the signers start getting their asses kicked and their homes burned down WE look like the discriminatory shitheads and they look like the innocent victims. We have the moral high ground here, let's keep it. If their fears of roving bands of angry gays (no doubt in feather boas and pink hot pants) come true that will make it easier for them to block the release of names in the future and will make it FAR harder to protect gay rights.
So I say again please "civilly confront those who signed the petition" have intelligent debate with them. Even if they scream and call you a pervert, and they will because they have nothing else to fall back on, you should be civil and make it clear that you are the reasonable party in the debate. You probably won't convince many of them to agree with you but you will show everyone around you that we have the moral high ground, that we're the sensible individuals and that they're the ignorant haters that should be defeated.
So I say again please "civilly confront those who signed the petition" have intelligent debate with them. Even if they scream and call you a pervert, and they will because they have nothing else to fall back on, you should be civil and make it clear that you are the reasonable party in the debate. You probably won't convince many of them to agree with you but you will show everyone around you that we have the moral high ground, that we're the sensible individuals and that they're the ignorant haters that should be defeated.
43
38 I'm not a wimp but i'm not unfailing, and i'm most certainly not going to appear in some place expecting you or anyone else to shield me. Who should i tell others i am if i come by? Kim!? If I ever loose my mind, support the opposite of what i do now or feel like exposing myself and most importantly my loved in harms way i'll let you know first.
Believe what you will, you're entitled to. All above you is exactly why i will support any who fights against this latest attempt in the nine circuit as best as God allows me to. Be it financially or donating my time. This has been a tough road from the get go but the Lord has led thru so far. So i'll just keep on trustin in Him.
44
Uh oh. A new PEW Research report regarding Americans' attitudes towards Muslims ends up revealing a current truth that will make Bull Connor Loveschild and those other "oppressed" christians heads explode: Americans view gays and lesbians as suffering more discrimination than blacks, hispanics, and even evangelical christians.
45
@43: Fine, then. Suit yourself.
Don't come to us and say we're stifling conversations or acting one way or another when you can't even move to defend or expand upon your own points in person. Your fear of telling someone why you think what they do between eachother is worthy of derision and outright discrimination is mighty telling at this point. I've long held a 90/10 view of you being a troll or real, and that has slid to 98/2.
Ultimately, you, Maggie Gallagher and others will have to face the reality that the glue and prayer holding together your massive trolling of the nation will fall apart. Your high-fives will stop coming, donations will cease and you'll find yourself having to find a new distraction or target for your bile.
Those who choose not to defend their rights, their opinions or their beliefs will end up mere footnotes.
Don't come to us and say we're stifling conversations or acting one way or another when you can't even move to defend or expand upon your own points in person. Your fear of telling someone why you think what they do between eachother is worthy of derision and outright discrimination is mighty telling at this point. I've long held a 90/10 view of you being a troll or real, and that has slid to 98/2.
Ultimately, you, Maggie Gallagher and others will have to face the reality that the glue and prayer holding together your massive trolling of the nation will fall apart. Your high-fives will stop coming, donations will cease and you'll find yourself having to find a new distraction or target for your bile.
Those who choose not to defend their rights, their opinions or their beliefs will end up mere footnotes.
46
Loveschild,
You say "the Lord has led thru". So, if the lord is leading you in this fight you're sure to win. After all, god never loses right? So, when you guys lose on this doesn't that mean god, as you know him, doesn't exist? Either that, or god wasn't really leading you. Maybe, he was leading those who are on the side of love (I understand that was a theme with his son) instead of those on the side of discrimination.
So, when you lose you might want to accept the fact that either god is on your side but is not all powerful or that god is not on your side.
You say "the Lord has led thru". So, if the lord is leading you in this fight you're sure to win. After all, god never loses right? So, when you guys lose on this doesn't that mean god, as you know him, doesn't exist? Either that, or god wasn't really leading you. Maybe, he was leading those who are on the side of love (I understand that was a theme with his son) instead of those on the side of discrimination.
So, when you lose you might want to accept the fact that either god is on your side but is not all powerful or that god is not on your side.
47
Loveschild,
Ever given a thought that the unkind words you receive here, is your own cruelty returning to you?
Some might call it karma, and others would say that you are being judged by the measure you use to judge others.
So, I'll make you a deal. If you have the courage to actually show up at SLOG Happy, and face your critics, then I'll take the train up and be your bodyguard.
Ever given a thought that the unkind words you receive here, is your own cruelty returning to you?
Some might call it karma, and others would say that you are being judged by the measure you use to judge others.
So, I'll make you a deal. If you have the courage to actually show up at SLOG Happy, and face your critics, then I'll take the train up and be your bodyguard.
48
I'm very glad this decision is being appealed.
Loveschild: Your side is losing ..... Please see the link at # 44. And also please see
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2…
Just in case you don't clik on my link, please note they say "conservatives typically retained strength only among stagnant or declining groups ." Also, "Millennials support gay marriage, take race and gender equality as givens, are tolerant of religious and family diversity, have an open and positive attitude toward immigration, and generally display little interest in fighting over the divisive social issues of the past." You will lose - justice will prevail - the rights of gays will be acknowledged .... if not this time, soon.
And just WHAT has troubled Canada or Spain since their Courts and lawmakers acknowledged they could not, in good conscience, exclude gays from marrying?
And, Kim, if you are going to Slog Happy as Loveschild's bodyguard, I'm going to attend - come hell or high water! I GOTTA see that in person.....
Loveschild: Your side is losing ..... Please see the link at # 44. And also please see
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2…
Just in case you don't clik on my link, please note they say "conservatives typically retained strength only among stagnant or declining groups ." Also, "Millennials support gay marriage, take race and gender equality as givens, are tolerant of religious and family diversity, have an open and positive attitude toward immigration, and generally display little interest in fighting over the divisive social issues of the past." You will lose - justice will prevail - the rights of gays will be acknowledged .... if not this time, soon.
And just WHAT has troubled Canada or Spain since their Courts and lawmakers acknowledged they could not, in good conscience, exclude gays from marrying?
And, Kim, if you are going to Slog Happy as Loveschild's bodyguard, I'm going to attend - come hell or high water! I GOTTA see that in person.....
49
Because this lawsuit originated over Referendum 71 petitions, and because you all now expect me to say it at every opportunity without even trying to pretend it's a natural part of the conversation:
Referendum 71 asks voters to approve or reject the domestic partnership law. Vote APPROVED on Referendum 71. Go to ApproveReferendum71.org to see what all you can do to preserve the domestic partnership law.
You're welcome. ;)
Referendum 71 asks voters to approve or reject the domestic partnership law. Vote APPROVED on Referendum 71. Go to ApproveReferendum71.org to see what all you can do to preserve the domestic partnership law.
You're welcome. ;)
50
46 You know what, unlike someone who hasn't come to know Him, i submit to God's will. If the people come November decide they want the law to stand as it has been enacted so far by politicians and not them, i know of no one (myself included) from my side who has said that they wont respect that. Your side on the contrary has said that they will fight even against the vote of the people and i believe them cus look at what they're wasting their time with now, intimidating the people thru the nine circuit, instead of making their case.
Let it be clear if signers are not harmed, harassed thru their names and addresses becoming public knowledge of gay lobby groups and the people (keyword p-e-o-p-l-e) not politicians or courts vote to side with you, i will abide by it. You can write that in stone.
Let it be clear if signers are not harmed, harassed thru their names and addresses becoming public knowledge of gay lobby groups and the people (keyword p-e-o-p-l-e) not politicians or courts vote to side with you, i will abide by it. You can write that in stone.
51
Loveschild: since you are here, can you please tell me what disaster you think has struck the countries that have approved gay marriage?
52
Come to me, haters of freedoms!
Your voices shall not remain mute, but shall be bound with pen to paper and shown to all when your signatures, printed names, and addresses are displayed for all to read, as is their right, at the Fremont Bridge!
None shall escape the Light.
Your voices shall not remain mute, but shall be bound with pen to paper and shown to all when your signatures, printed names, and addresses are displayed for all to read, as is their right, at the Fremont Bridge!
None shall escape the Light.
54
47 Sometimes you act as if you had no family to take care of yourself Kim cus how can you not understand me, i expect that from Bacon or the other but not from another mother. It is as bewildering to me as some of the other things you support here. For example, you say you believe in Christ just as i, yet believe in karma? How can someone who believes that Christ came to do away and clean us of all our sins believe in the eastern hindu and buddhist ideology of cycle of cause and effect that is karma?
Tell you what, if I see this latest idiotic move dropped by the side you support alongside with the other attempt at keeping this from the ballot and see actual respect for this process and the people coming out of your side and submit to the final decision that the people make just as i will, i'll consider your proposition. Fair is fair.
Tell you what, if I see this latest idiotic move dropped by the side you support alongside with the other attempt at keeping this from the ballot and see actual respect for this process and the people coming out of your side and submit to the final decision that the people make just as i will, i'll consider your proposition. Fair is fair.
55
LC, my understanding from Christians I know whose faith informs their lives is that they have a wonderful time moving through life trying to listen for and follow God's will as best they can. But they tell me they get into trouble and cause nothing but suffering for themselves and others every single time they presume to know for sure what God's will is, for themselves but especially for anybody else.
They tell me their moments of inspiration, clarity and joy--and their times of being most helpful in the world-- come when they just listen with an open heart and open mind, do their best, and recognize they're subject to correction.
Food for thought. And prayer, if you're as into that as you say.
They tell me their moments of inspiration, clarity and joy--and their times of being most helpful in the world-- come when they just listen with an open heart and open mind, do their best, and recognize they're subject to correction.
Food for thought. And prayer, if you're as into that as you say.
56
51 We are not Canada, we are not Spain, we are not the Netherlands overwhelmed with drugs and promiscuity. We are the U.S. The only nation in europe to which we perhaps could look for some insight regarding this is your country Theo. To be honest i like the nationwide civil partnerships that is the law in your country and in France as well as in Denmark including the ban on joint adoption because otherwise it can create confusion for children. Maybe that's the best option for us also here in the end. So long an end is put to all of this.
57
Loveschild,
Slow down and try some reading comprehension. I didn't say that I believed in karma. I said some may call your being treated rudely on SLOG karma, because your posts are often really rude.
What's with the mothering thing? When I have attend SLOG Happy, my children were taken care of. I do have a husband, who has attended SLOG Happy, and family in WA, too.
I'm not in any danger at SLOG Happy, and you wouldn't be either.
Oh, and if rolling over and playing dead, is the requirement to get you to SLOG Happy, then you should just stay home. No minority group, even if it's members can't always be visually recognized in under 60 seconds, deserves to be treated as second class citizens and have unequal civil rights.
Slow down and try some reading comprehension. I didn't say that I believed in karma. I said some may call your being treated rudely on SLOG karma, because your posts are often really rude.
What's with the mothering thing? When I have attend SLOG Happy, my children were taken care of. I do have a husband, who has attended SLOG Happy, and family in WA, too.
I'm not in any danger at SLOG Happy, and you wouldn't be either.
Oh, and if rolling over and playing dead, is the requirement to get you to SLOG Happy, then you should just stay home. No minority group, even if it's members can't always be visually recognized in under 60 seconds, deserves to be treated as second class citizens and have unequal civil rights.
58
@54: Don't talk out of the side of your head about me when you don't know my life.
I was the only person in my brother's life from the age of 6 until he was 13, and until my dad ran off to his own apartment to live with his girlfriend and took my brother with him, he was fine. I did a good job raising him even being only a year older. I protected him from bullies, held him when he was frightened, made sure he brushed his teeth and never let him run off without someone knowing where he was. I made sure he ate, made sure he got to school on time, tied his shoes and wiped his nose. He was fine. He did well in class, had lots of friends and did fine.
I was there to help him pick up the pieces when living with my dad shattered his life. I walked down a country road in the darkness at 3am making sure he didn't kill himself because he was angry that I would dare tell him that my dad was a bad influence.
He had a kid and started getting back on his feet again and he was fine again. For a few years, it was alright. I gave him advice, and although we argued once in a while, things were fine.
Christmas night, 2004, my father attempted to kill my brother and my grandmother. He hit her, he tried to choke my brother. When I came back from my uncle's house after trying to roust him out, my dad was waiting for me. He was threatening my brother and reached into a drawer and pulled out a small revolver. Pointing it at me, he shouted "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU, THEN I'M GOING TO KILL YOUR BROTHER."
I stared that man down as he pulled that trigger three times. The gun did not fire once, even though it had been cleaned and test-fired a week prior. I picked that miserable excuse for a man up off his own two feet and hurled him across the room with such force god himself felt it, but I didn't hurt him. I'm not like that. I held him down for an hour with such force the wall buckled. You can ask anyone in witness that night, this is the truth.
So don't you EVER try to tell me your convictions are stronger, that your spine is tougher or your skin is thicker. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being or a pathetic excuse for a troll. I would defy god himself to make sure the people I love are okay, and that means my man. So tell me I'm wrong, I don't care. But if you don't have the certainty to even speak to me face to face, you only prove that Loveschild's beliefs are as fake as the Loveschild persona.
More...
I was the only person in my brother's life from the age of 6 until he was 13, and until my dad ran off to his own apartment to live with his girlfriend and took my brother with him, he was fine. I did a good job raising him even being only a year older. I protected him from bullies, held him when he was frightened, made sure he brushed his teeth and never let him run off without someone knowing where he was. I made sure he ate, made sure he got to school on time, tied his shoes and wiped his nose. He was fine. He did well in class, had lots of friends and did fine.
I was there to help him pick up the pieces when living with my dad shattered his life. I walked down a country road in the darkness at 3am making sure he didn't kill himself because he was angry that I would dare tell him that my dad was a bad influence.
He had a kid and started getting back on his feet again and he was fine again. For a few years, it was alright. I gave him advice, and although we argued once in a while, things were fine.
Christmas night, 2004, my father attempted to kill my brother and my grandmother. He hit her, he tried to choke my brother. When I came back from my uncle's house after trying to roust him out, my dad was waiting for me. He was threatening my brother and reached into a drawer and pulled out a small revolver. Pointing it at me, he shouted "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU, THEN I'M GOING TO KILL YOUR BROTHER."
I stared that man down as he pulled that trigger three times. The gun did not fire once, even though it had been cleaned and test-fired a week prior. I picked that miserable excuse for a man up off his own two feet and hurled him across the room with such force god himself felt it, but I didn't hurt him. I'm not like that. I held him down for an hour with such force the wall buckled. You can ask anyone in witness that night, this is the truth.
So don't you EVER try to tell me your convictions are stronger, that your spine is tougher or your skin is thicker. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being or a pathetic excuse for a troll. I would defy god himself to make sure the people I love are okay, and that means my man. So tell me I'm wrong, I don't care. But if you don't have the certainty to even speak to me face to face, you only prove that Loveschild's beliefs are as fake as the Loveschild persona.
59
@39
"loveschild ... it's a bunched of bored white men with no apparent social skills."
so what you're saying is
loveschild = slog ?
fascinating
"loveschild ... it's a bunched of bored white men with no apparent social skills."
so what you're saying is
loveschild = slog ?
fascinating
60
57 "What's with the mothering thing? When I have attend SLOG Happy, my children were taken care of. I do have a husband, who has attended SLOG Happy, and family in WA, too."
Misunderstood again, I wasn't calling into question the way you take care of your family, from what little i know of you, you do that well and are a great mother. I was expressing that i can not understand how you are not able to empathize with me in terms of wanting to protect my family. I wouldn't want you for example to come by to certain places were i know there would be a risk to you even if small, i wouldn't want you on harms way. I wouldn't want your children or your husband to be left without you. That's also why i don't get how you side with them on the exposure of the names and adresses.
Also, i don't want anyone to roll over, i just want common sense and respect for our voting process to prevail even in this heated atmosphere. Fair is fair, i still want to meet you one day and give you a hug if you allow me to. I know i will if not now then when all this is over. Seems right now the passions on both sides do not lend themselves for that. In God's Love.
61
Loveschild, you will not be running any risk attending Slog Happy. Unless, of course, you fear that you will really, really like all those charming faggots and you will come out as a fag hag.
Furthermore, your family is not endangered in any way by the fact that gay families exist and are supported and legitimated by the Canadian state and other countries. You and your family can keep right on going to your church and living your lives......and hating gays. I kno w you deny you hate gays. You would deny us the full rights of citizenship: to me , that is hate. Separate but equal are so rarely equal - ask Vermont justices. You, of course, should already know that without checking legal decisions.
And, for your information, Canada is hardly a hotbed of drug use and promiscuity. In fact, America seems to way ahead on drug use. See website...
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evid…
Baconcat, I admire you. May you be well, may you be happy.
Furthermore, your family is not endangered in any way by the fact that gay families exist and are supported and legitimated by the Canadian state and other countries. You and your family can keep right on going to your church and living your lives......and hating gays. I kno w you deny you hate gays. You would deny us the full rights of citizenship: to me , that is hate. Separate but equal are so rarely equal - ask Vermont justices. You, of course, should already know that without checking legal decisions.
And, for your information, Canada is hardly a hotbed of drug use and promiscuity. In fact, America seems to way ahead on drug use. See website...
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evid…
Baconcat, I admire you. May you be well, may you be happy.
62
60:
I understand wanting to protect your family from legitimate threats, such as the swine flu. Bottom line, your in greater danger getting into a car, than you would be at SLOG Happy. You've allowed yourself to create some imaginary danger, a danger that doesn't actually exist, but in your own head. You'll do what you think best, but I do wish you would get some persepective about this all.
It would be interesting to meet you as well. FYI, I'm not really the hugging type, family always, others are on the basis of their emotional needs, so I'll shake your hand, unless I feel lead differently. :)
I understand wanting to protect your family from legitimate threats, such as the swine flu. Bottom line, your in greater danger getting into a car, than you would be at SLOG Happy. You've allowed yourself to create some imaginary danger, a danger that doesn't actually exist, but in your own head. You'll do what you think best, but I do wish you would get some persepective about this all.
It would be interesting to meet you as well. FYI, I'm not really the hugging type, family always, others are on the basis of their emotional needs, so I'll shake your hand, unless I feel lead differently. :)
64
You got things so backafhasswards you don't even know what you're saying anymore LC. If R-71 is approved come November, how can it be BOTH by "a vote of the people" AND "God's will"? You've been "arguing" from Day One that, because you are a good-and-righteous Xtian that you KNOW God's Will (tm), that God hates teh homo butt-secks, and because HE does, you do.
So, if R-71 passes, does that mean God DOESN'T hate teh gay butt-secks? And if so, does that mean you too will come to love teh gay butt-secks because, clearly, your God does too?
Waiting for your and/or your trollish authors' heads to wrap themselves around that one...
So, if R-71 passes, does that mean God DOESN'T hate teh gay butt-secks? And if so, does that mean you too will come to love teh gay butt-secks because, clearly, your God does too?
Waiting for your and/or your trollish authors' heads to wrap themselves around that one...
65
@56: OT: Loveschild wrote:
"we are not the Netherlands overwhelmed with drugs"
Actually, The Netherlands rates of drug use are all lower than those of the United States. Cocaine, marijuana, inhalants, heroin, ever used, used in past year, used in past month: all 1/2 to 1/10th of the U.S. rates. By comparison, the United States is overwhelmed with drugs.
"we are not the Netherlands overwhelmed with drugs"
Actually, The Netherlands rates of drug use are all lower than those of the United States. Cocaine, marijuana, inhalants, heroin, ever used, used in past year, used in past month: all 1/2 to 1/10th of the U.S. rates. By comparison, the United States is overwhelmed with drugs.
67
Hey -- just wanted to get my facts straight. How many people have been assaulted and/or killed at a Slog Happy event? I mean, if it's a regular occurrence I can see why LC is so paranoid, sorry, crazy, no... what's the word I'm looking for... oh wait, that was it -- paranoid and crazy to think her well being would be in DANGER!!!
Silly troll, Slog is for nice people!
Silly troll, Slog is for nice people!
68
You married Loveschild, or are your kids bastards? Marriage is so sacred you can get one at a drive-thru 24 hours a day.
70
Oh Loveschild, gay marriage is coming soon! Cry all you want, but we're going to have it in the next few years. We're going to call it MARRIAGE, not Domestic Partnerships or Civil Unions. We will have marriage, and it will not do anything to harm the fabric of society as we know it. You're losing.
71
Thanks Kim and Theo, I'm fine and dandy-- sometimes my outright honesty sounds a little more impassioned than it is. Was just stating the facts and correcting the record for our darling friend LC. :)
Of course, I'm always happy thanks to @70!
Of course, I'm always happy thanks to @70!
72
"Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has his own purposes. "
73
baconcat, the drinks are on ME at the next slog happy. and remember folks, loveschild is not real. she's about as black as david duke. and not even a 'she'.
74
The Ruling has already been appealed as of September 11. http://www.scribd.com/doc/19669854/R71-9…
Significantly, two of the "John Doe" plaintiffs seeking to keep the petions secret, Roy and Valery Hartwell of the Rivers of Glory Church in Lacey, also collected signatures for R-71 and acted as Lead observers of the secretary of State's ballot certification process.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19672163/Reply…
Significantly, two of the "John Doe" plaintiffs seeking to keep the petions secret, Roy and Valery Hartwell of the Rivers of Glory Church in Lacey, also collected signatures for R-71 and acted as Lead observers of the secretary of State's ballot certification process.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19672163/Reply…
75
Subject: Privacy and prior Restraints Compete in 9th Circuit Domestic Partnership Referendum Appeal
Issues of personal privacy and prior restraint will figure prominently in a recent appeal filed in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in regard to disclosure of Referendum signatures submitted to the Secretary of State in an effort to overturn Washington State's progressive Domestic partnership law. Referendum R-71, certified for the Washington State ballot on September 3, seeks to overturn a law enacted last session by the democratically controlled State Legislature and Governor Christine Gregoire that expands the rights of domestic partners, including gay couples. The appeal, filed on September 11 by a private voter, seeks repeal of an injunction issued by the Honorable Judge Benjamin Settle in Western Washington Federal District Court No. 09-cv-05456 BHS, and challenges the District Court injunction prohibiting the release of referendum signatures on 1st Amendment and 11th Amendment grounds.
Supporters of R-71, which seeks to repeal Washington State's Domestic Partnership law have asserted that the 1st Amendment protects their rights to anonymous political speech. The groups and individual voter opposing the injunction argue that disclosure of signatures to a referendum under the State Public Records law is essential for the integrity of the political process, including the State Court ballot certification appeal process, which allows the State Court to examine the signatures to ensure the accuracy of the signature verification conducted by the Secretary of State.
The case will pit the personal privacy rights of several "John Doe" plaintiffs, including Rivers of Glory Pastor Roy Hartwell, (who preaches out of a church located in a Holiday Inn, and who collected signatures for the referendum and also acted as an observer of the Secretary of State's certification process), against the rights of the voters and the State to disclosure of the over 240,000 signatures on the petition.
Several groups, including Whosigned.org, Washington Families United, the Washington Coalition on Open Government, Rachel De LaCorte of the AP, and Arthur West, (an individual voter and open government activist) requested disclosure of the signatures under the State disclosure law. Judge Settle issued an injunction on the basis of redacted "John Doe" declarations attesting that their unidentified signers were scared that they would be harassed if the signatures were disclosed as public records, and posted on the web by Whosigned.org.
Last week, the Washington State Court denied separate ballot certification challenges brought by Washington Families and Arthur West, without requiring or reviewing the signatures on the petitions, and allowed the measure to proceed to the ballot without publication or judicial review of the names on the petitions. The voter-appellant, whose September 3 request for intervention in the federal proceedings was "continued" because the Court Clerks had "misplaced" his filed pleadings, is arguing 1st Amendment Prior Restraint issues and that the Federal injunction impermissibly violates the 11th Amendment by intruding into the State elelectoral and judicial process in what is essentially a State law issue. (The Washington Public Records Act, RCW 42.56, provides for specific restraint on disclosure of records at the instance of the affected party, but the state law procedures were never employed prior to the John Doe's Federal Court suit)
The appeal filed September 11th seeks review of the Federal District Court injunction and a 9th Circuit stay on the referendum measure proceeding to the ballot until the signature records are disclosed and a State Court ballot certification review is conducted on the only admissible evidence, the petitions themselves.
After receiving West's notice of appeal, the (Republican) Washington State Attorney General has announced his intention to also file an appeal on behalf of his (republican) client, Washington State Secretary of State Sam Reed.
This case should help to define the various rights involved in public disclosure of records related to the referendum signature collection and verification process, as well as the bounds of federal jurisdiction to dictate to State Courts how they can conduct their electoral reviews of ballot measures.
More...
Issues of personal privacy and prior restraint will figure prominently in a recent appeal filed in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in regard to disclosure of Referendum signatures submitted to the Secretary of State in an effort to overturn Washington State's progressive Domestic partnership law. Referendum R-71, certified for the Washington State ballot on September 3, seeks to overturn a law enacted last session by the democratically controlled State Legislature and Governor Christine Gregoire that expands the rights of domestic partners, including gay couples. The appeal, filed on September 11 by a private voter, seeks repeal of an injunction issued by the Honorable Judge Benjamin Settle in Western Washington Federal District Court No. 09-cv-05456 BHS, and challenges the District Court injunction prohibiting the release of referendum signatures on 1st Amendment and 11th Amendment grounds.
Supporters of R-71, which seeks to repeal Washington State's Domestic Partnership law have asserted that the 1st Amendment protects their rights to anonymous political speech. The groups and individual voter opposing the injunction argue that disclosure of signatures to a referendum under the State Public Records law is essential for the integrity of the political process, including the State Court ballot certification appeal process, which allows the State Court to examine the signatures to ensure the accuracy of the signature verification conducted by the Secretary of State.
The case will pit the personal privacy rights of several "John Doe" plaintiffs, including Rivers of Glory Pastor Roy Hartwell, (who preaches out of a church located in a Holiday Inn, and who collected signatures for the referendum and also acted as an observer of the Secretary of State's certification process), against the rights of the voters and the State to disclosure of the over 240,000 signatures on the petition.
Several groups, including Whosigned.org, Washington Families United, the Washington Coalition on Open Government, Rachel De LaCorte of the AP, and Arthur West, (an individual voter and open government activist) requested disclosure of the signatures under the State disclosure law. Judge Settle issued an injunction on the basis of redacted "John Doe" declarations attesting that their unidentified signers were scared that they would be harassed if the signatures were disclosed as public records, and posted on the web by Whosigned.org.
Last week, the Washington State Court denied separate ballot certification challenges brought by Washington Families and Arthur West, without requiring or reviewing the signatures on the petitions, and allowed the measure to proceed to the ballot without publication or judicial review of the names on the petitions. The voter-appellant, whose September 3 request for intervention in the federal proceedings was "continued" because the Court Clerks had "misplaced" his filed pleadings, is arguing 1st Amendment Prior Restraint issues and that the Federal injunction impermissibly violates the 11th Amendment by intruding into the State elelectoral and judicial process in what is essentially a State law issue. (The Washington Public Records Act, RCW 42.56, provides for specific restraint on disclosure of records at the instance of the affected party, but the state law procedures were never employed prior to the John Doe's Federal Court suit)
The appeal filed September 11th seeks review of the Federal District Court injunction and a 9th Circuit stay on the referendum measure proceeding to the ballot until the signature records are disclosed and a State Court ballot certification review is conducted on the only admissible evidence, the petitions themselves.
After receiving West's notice of appeal, the (Republican) Washington State Attorney General has announced his intention to also file an appeal on behalf of his (republican) client, Washington State Secretary of State Sam Reed.
This case should help to define the various rights involved in public disclosure of records related to the referendum signature collection and verification process, as well as the bounds of federal jurisdiction to dictate to State Courts how they can conduct their electoral reviews of ballot measures.
76
Gee, BIG surprise here. George Bush-appointed-Republican-hack Judge Benjamin Settle (of Shelton WA for godsake) rules in favor of allowing the bigots to hide behind their white-hooded anonymity.
Boy - WHO could have seen THAT coming??!!??
Boy - WHO could have seen THAT coming??!!??
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