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News & ArtsFriday, September 11, 2009
Hetero Marriage Back On The Ballot in California in 2010
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:08 PM
Not gay marriage this time. Straight marriage.
The 2010 California Marriage Protection Act would protect the sacred sanctity of marriage not by banning gay marriage—that's already illegal, thanks to straight Californians who were brave enough to sacrifice the rights of gay citizens in order to save marriage—but this time by banning straight divorce. "You said 'Til death do us part,'" the backers of this initiative remind straight voters, and "you're not dead yet."
2
Is that for real??? Part of me loves it, but then I think of all the people out there who do honestly feel guilty about their divorces. That's really mean (and wrong) to say: Jesus loves you but not as much now." But then how much more mean (and wrong) is it to say to homosexuals: "God hates fags."
This whole argument is pitifully sad. Why can't Americans keep from meddling in other's lives?
This whole argument is pitifully sad. Why can't Americans keep from meddling in other's lives?
6
@5 I doubt that. But I also doubt that homosexuals will either. The haters will though, I think...
9
I'm banging my head on a wall, and wishing it wasn't too darn early to drink. Come 17:00 hrs, the whiskey has been whispering to me since Labor Day. I have a bottle of Elijah Craig with my name on it.
I can add this, to the story of the Kentucky High School Football Coach that took some of his team to be baptized on a field trip without parental consent.
I can add this, to the story of the Kentucky High School Football Coach that took some of his team to be baptized on a field trip without parental consent.
10
Just so everyone is on the same page - this initiative, while real, is being propounded as political satire. The (intentionally) hilarious interview with the initiative's proponent is at http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/divorce/…. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
11
Whenever a religious homophobe tells me that gay marriage will destroy "traditional" marriage, I always come back with "Divorce destroys traditional marriage every day. How come you're not out crusading against divorce?" That's usually where the conversation ends. I've never received an answer.
15
@10 I was wondering...especially since the sub tagline is "Hell is eternal--just like your marriage was supposed to be." If it wasn't meant to be comedy, though, it's even better.
16
i am very glad this idea has surfaced. i'd love to see interviews with people refusing to sign and find out how they explain refusing.
i hope it is well-written, so theocracists don't have an easy out. i mean, i hope it allows divorce for the normal biblically accepted reasons.
but were the joke to go too far and actually pass.... eek!
i hope it is well-written, so theocracists don't have an easy out. i mean, i hope it allows divorce for the normal biblically accepted reasons.
but were the joke to go too far and actually pass.... eek!
17
Do people still say "Till death do us part" when they get married? I mean, I'm sure some people do, but is it standard anymore?
18
If this passes, will past divorces be retroactively permitted? Because that would create a situation where some people are allowed to have straight divorce if they got their before divorce was outlawed, while others won't be. So unfair!
19
Hey -- where's Single Mom Loveschild on this thread? Your lord is angry LC! Better hide under the bed with the gays!
23
I have two parents who are lawyers; one specializes in family law (read: divorce). Divorce is expensive, time-consuming, paperwork-intensive, and usually accompanied by hurt feelings and petty arguments that end up costing more time and money. And it only gets worse if there are kids or significant assets involved. It's a thriving industry, especially in this economy (money issues are the #1 cause of divorce). Knowing that this bill passing would put most family lawyers out of work, it's hard to be totally supportive of the measure.
On the other hand, if divorce is no longer an option, maybe people will think longer and harder about marriage, and avoid drunken weekends in Vegas chapels, or not get married right out of high school. You know, take marriage seriously and consider how it will affect their lives to come.
However, we all know that the [hypothetical] moment this passes, another measure will be drawn up to reverse it. For that reason, I say, no harm, no foul.
On the other hand, if divorce is no longer an option, maybe people will think longer and harder about marriage, and avoid drunken weekends in Vegas chapels, or not get married right out of high school. You know, take marriage seriously and consider how it will affect their lives to come.
However, we all know that the [hypothetical] moment this passes, another measure will be drawn up to reverse it. For that reason, I say, no harm, no foul.
24
Oh please let this get on the ballot!
Some simple math:
Let P = the percentage of people who voted for Prop. 8
Let D = the percentage of people who vote for this
Let H = the percentage of people who are homophobic bigot hypocrites using marriage as a cover for gay bashing
then H = P - D
Who wants to bet that H will be rather large?
Incidentally, someone please, please tell me what Maggie Gallagher and the NOM crew is saying about this. They claim not to be haters. Well it's time to put your money where your mouth is!
Some simple math:
Let P = the percentage of people who voted for Prop. 8
Let D = the percentage of people who vote for this
Let H = the percentage of people who are homophobic bigot hypocrites using marriage as a cover for gay bashing
then H = P - D
Who wants to bet that H will be rather large?
Incidentally, someone please, please tell me what Maggie Gallagher and the NOM crew is saying about this. They claim not to be haters. Well it's time to put your money where your mouth is!
25
This is a sick joke put forth by teh gays, right?
"If you hate the idea of us being married, we'll make it so you hate being married AT ALL!"
I love it. Brilliant.
"If you hate the idea of us being married, we'll make it so you hate being married AT ALL!"
I love it. Brilliant.
27
Please get all the gays in California to vote for this! I want to see the faces of the Motha Phuckers who took away gay people's rights when it happens to them!
28
I hope they hand this over to professional signature gatherers...the same ones that were at that airport in Maine lying that one petition was to legalize gay marriage and the other was to ban it. I'm sure if they do we'll be seeing it on a ballot in 2010 for sure>
29
This jut smacks of vindictiveness to me... how on Earth does this help the argument for gay marriage? Sure you're punishing heterosexual hypocrites who have the right to marriage, but I have news for you- the fundie nutjobs who decry gay marriage in the first place are far more likely to hold to scripture and stay in a loveless dysfunctional marriages anyway. So really, your just cutting off your nose to spite the face.
30
Eh. This doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of passing, so don't go getting all worked up about it.
31
19, I've been asking Loveschild for MONTHS how she would feel if we voted on her marriage, and she always ignores my question. I would think that if it's fair to vote on my relationship, it would also be fair to vote on hers. Good luck getting her to discuss it, though!
32
i'm not sure the "simple" math is sound... unless no gay supporters vote for this joke.
Let P = the percentage of people who voted for Prop. 8
Let D = the percentage of people who vote for this
Let H = the percentage of people who are homophobic bigot hypocrites using marriage as a cover for gay bashing
then H = P - D
you are supposing there is a certain number of "sincere" defense of marriage persons, and a percentage of "insincere" defense of marriage persons. the percentage of people who vote for this = those in on the joke (who presumably did not vote for prop 8) + sincere defense of marriage persons.
prop 8 supporters = sincere + insincere defense of marriage persons
prop joke supporters = sincere defense of marriage persons + gay supporters in on the joke
then we could say:
insin + sin = prop8
insin + sin + gaysup = all
sin + gay = prop joke
sin + gaysup + insin = all
sin = propjoke - gaysup
insin = prop 8 - sin
insin = prop8 - ( propjoke - gaysup )
insin = prop8 - propjoke + gaysup
insin = sin + insin - gaysup - sin + gaysup
insin = insin
the only thing we could learn, if everyone voted so nice and neat (all gay supporters voting for this joke), is weather or not there were more insin or gaysup supporters. i think we already know there are likely more gay supporters given to close vote on prop8.
Let P = the percentage of people who voted for Prop. 8
Let D = the percentage of people who vote for this
Let H = the percentage of people who are homophobic bigot hypocrites using marriage as a cover for gay bashing
then H = P - D
you are supposing there is a certain number of "sincere" defense of marriage persons, and a percentage of "insincere" defense of marriage persons. the percentage of people who vote for this = those in on the joke (who presumably did not vote for prop 8) + sincere defense of marriage persons.
prop 8 supporters = sincere + insincere defense of marriage persons
prop joke supporters = sincere defense of marriage persons + gay supporters in on the joke
then we could say:
insin + sin = prop8
insin + sin + gaysup = all
sin + gay = prop joke
sin + gaysup + insin = all
sin = propjoke - gaysup
insin = prop 8 - sin
insin = prop8 - ( propjoke - gaysup )
insin = prop8 - propjoke + gaysup
insin = sin + insin - gaysup - sin + gaysup
insin = insin
the only thing we could learn, if everyone voted so nice and neat (all gay supporters voting for this joke), is weather or not there were more insin or gaysup supporters. i think we already know there are likely more gay supporters given to close vote on prop8.
35
OK, tired of stupid people who can't differentiate between "your" and "you're," and can't remember to close a tag.
36
Not to ruin the joke, but isn't this pretty close to covenant marriage, which has actually already passed in three states, and been proposed in a whole lot more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_ma…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_ma…
37
Not to ruin the joke, but isn't this pretty close to covenant marriage, which has actually already passed in three states, and been proposed in a whole lot more?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_ma…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_ma…
39
@35 And I hate douchebags. So yeah, of the two times I meant to write you're, I only spelled one of them correctly. Way to go Grammar Nazi! What, no mention of the fact that I also misspelled just in my haste?
And FYI- it was the post ABOVE mine that italicized every post below it. As you can clearly see, I know how to close a tag. Thanks for playing SLOG.
And FYI- it was the post ABOVE mine that italicized every post below it. As you can clearly see, I know how to close a tag. Thanks for playing SLOG.
40
Hmmmm ban divorce. Great idea. Can't divorce the asshole scum bag I married cause they say it has to end in death. Well might as well kill the stupid fucker so I can be free. I see lots of self defense claims coming to a court room near you soon. I really don't care who can and cant get married. Personally I think everyone should be allowed a few chances.
42
@ 15 - My initial reaction to the sub tagline was to laugh - on a quick read it seems to imply that marriage is an eternal hell. Right below the Jesus, too. Hilarious.
43
This is a joke, right? Read the comments section. Stuff like this:
"The Bible is very, very clear about this.
- Don’t eat shellfish, unless you like eating them.
- Don’t eat mixed-fabric garments, unless you like them.
- Stone homosexuals.
- Don’t divorce your wife, unless she gains 20 lbs and lets it all go.
As a Judeo-Evangelico-Pentecostal-Baptist nation, we are obligated to follow the law of the Bible."
This is a joke, right?
"The Bible is very, very clear about this.
- Don’t eat shellfish, unless you like eating them.
- Don’t eat mixed-fabric garments, unless you like them.
- Stone homosexuals.
- Don’t divorce your wife, unless she gains 20 lbs and lets it all go.
As a Judeo-Evangelico-Pentecostal-Baptist nation, we are obligated to follow the law of the Bible."
This is a joke, right?
46
No, this is definitely a joke:
"Some homosexuals are working hard to overturn Prop 8 in 2010 — instead of waiting for 2012, when Sarah Palin will be president and/or the world will come to a fiery end."
"Some homosexuals are working hard to overturn Prop 8 in 2010 — instead of waiting for 2012, when Sarah Palin will be president and/or the world will come to a fiery end."
49
I knew it was a joke as soon as I saw how well-designed the website was. That, and the fact that they knew how to embed videos ruled out the fundies.
52
...and 39, if you know how to close a tag, why didn't you?
Here's a lovely parting gift. Now go away.
Here's a lovely parting gift. Now go away.
54
Its a joke, and its not at the same time. Its also serious in that its designed to expose the real reason for prop 8: that it was an anti-gay marriage proposition funded largely by the mormons, and that it was not really to "protect marriage" and "restore marriage and protect california's children" as it says on their website: http://www.protectmarriage.com/
The point is that if you want to restore marriage, you should outlaw divorce (the natural endpoint of such a slogan), not outlaw gay marriage, which is just bigotry. We live in a country where everyone should have equal rights under the law. Thats a separate issue, at least it should be, than the marital beliefs or teachings of a particular religious group.
Actually, I found the whole prop 8 thing pretty ironic, given that Mormons allow polygamy....THAT's their idea of protecting marriage?
The point is that if you want to restore marriage, you should outlaw divorce (the natural endpoint of such a slogan), not outlaw gay marriage, which is just bigotry. We live in a country where everyone should have equal rights under the law. Thats a separate issue, at least it should be, than the marital beliefs or teachings of a particular religious group.
Actually, I found the whole prop 8 thing pretty ironic, given that Mormons allow polygamy....THAT's their idea of protecting marriage?
55
@54 - Of course, only the fringe nutjobs would permit earthly polygamy nowadays, but it doesn't resolve the issue of potential polygamy in the afterlife (technically a man can be Sealed to multiple women).
I think the point of this new initiative is to show people who'd voted for Prop 8 to 'protect marriage' yet would protect the 'right' to divorce that they're full of shit. Show them, and the rest of the country.
It's not a new idea, either. This video went up in Prop 8's immediate aftermath, though I don't think it's the original copy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98gcBKvU…
I think the point of this new initiative is to show people who'd voted for Prop 8 to 'protect marriage' yet would protect the 'right' to divorce that they're full of shit. Show them, and the rest of the country.
It's not a new idea, either. This video went up in Prop 8's immediate aftermath, though I don't think it's the original copy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98gcBKvU…
56
@55: The LDS are actually very dodgy about the polygamy issue. They won't give a yes or no issue about whether they still practice it; generally they'll give out a standard PR response: "We believe in following the law of the land." They still teach their children that polygamy is the best way, and would love to be able to practice it openly. As it is, the district attorneys in Utah, who are mostly LDS, tend to look the other way regarding polygamists even when welfare fraud and statutory rape are involved.
57
I wish I was a cali resident so i could vote for this thing. Get a petition going afterwards to repeal it and the gay marriage ban. Dee-lish.
59
you are such a RAINBOW HUMPER...i cannot believe that because gays are an abomination and think that they deserve to have the same rights as straight people, they are going to try to do something as stupid as this and think that it would pass. gays are already sinning...so why not just continue to live in marriageless sin? why do they think they need to have marriage? so they can pretend to be normal like the rest of us? please. get real. get over yourself. and move on. gays will never be normal and will never be accepted as normal citizens. live with it. its the choice you've made.
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