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News & ArtsFriday, September 4, 2009
Politics The End of Yet Another Thing
Posted by Charles Mudede on Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:18 AM
From Politico:
The White House says Obama’s address is a sort of pep talk for the nation’s schoolchildren. But conservative commentators have criticized Obama for trying to “indoctrinate” students to his liberal beliefs, and some parents call it an improper mix of politics and education.Because those on the far right are unable express their racism directly, because they cannot openly say that their hate for the president is rooted in the color of his skin, the most marvelous thing is beginning to happen: they are using leftist tools to dismantle precisely what we on the left have no love for, namely patriotism. Those on the far right are not wrong but correct to be upset about the indoctrination of ideological models of power and control, the mixture of "politics and education," the absolute politicization of public and private spheres, and the diffusion of government propaganda across the surfaces of daily life. And what is impressive is they seem to be more successful than us on the left at bringing these concerns and dismantling technologies to the centers of information distribution, our national media networks. But they must also know that once patriotism has been neutralized, there is no returning to it. After their violent attack on this institution of power and control (an institution that has led so many people blindly into costly and very deadly wars), we will effectively live in a society with little to no a sense of the mythic. Destiny will be dead. America will be a much sober place. This sobriety will be their undoing.“The gist is, ‘I want to see what the president has to say before you expose it to my child.’ Another said, ‘This is Marxist propaganda.’ They are very hostile,” said Patricia O’Neill, a Democrat who is vice president
of the Montgomery County School Board, in a district that borders Washington, D.C. “I think it’s disturbing that people don’t want to hear the president, but we live in a diverse society.”
1
It's such a fearful reaction. If President Bush had done a similar thing, I wouldn't have been thrilled about it, but I wouldn't have kept my child home from school that day. I would asked my child what the president said, and given him some alternative points of view to encourage critical thinking.
2
right.
that and they don't mind being hypocrites since reagan did the exact same thing in 1989 and george h.w. bush in 1991.
if there weren't so many intellectually challenged on the right it might actually be funny.
luckily, most of these whining parents making false accusations and getting scared over nothing actually home school there little retards, so it's not gonna affect that many real students.
that and they don't mind being hypocrites since reagan did the exact same thing in 1989 and george h.w. bush in 1991.
if there weren't so many intellectually challenged on the right it might actually be funny.
luckily, most of these whining parents making false accusations and getting scared over nothing actually home school there little retards, so it's not gonna affect that many real students.
3
yeah, right. i wish. the right will return to being hyperpatriotic assholes the second another whitey righty gets in office.
4
@1, it would have been nice if Bush had done it or Clinton for that matter.
I would like our leaders, no matter what party, to get out there and encourage our school kids to work hard in shcool.
I would like our leaders, no matter what party, to get out there and encourage our school kids to work hard in shcool.
5
I don't agree with your prediction that the right wing will succeed in "dismantling" patriotism. They might surpress it for as long as a non-Republican is in the oval office, but it will spring back, like weeds after a forest fire, as soon as One Of Them becomes dear leader again.
6
And of course, these are many of the same people who don't think there's anything wrong with their boss' using work-time to shove anti-union or nutty religious indoctrination down their employee's throats; 'cause after all, if the boss is paying you, you should just sit down, shut up, and accept whatever (s)he says.
7
you underestimate the right*. this is the classic liberal mistake: assuming that the right's arguments adhere to some sort of internal logic that is pervious to rational discussion. these protesters--the ones who are earnest, that is--can, in Orwellian fashion, simultaneously attack patriotic indoctrination of the nation's schoolchildren while holding themselves up as patriotic in doing so.
remember too that Obama is largely viewed by these people as an usurper, an evil-doer whose public policy positions, if implemented, will foment the end of American democracy. thus opposition to everything he does is tantamount to saving America. when the republicans recapture the presidency, America will be saved, and they can return to supporting presidential pep-talks to students and other such patriotic activities.
*and by right I mean, of course, the Palin right, not the conservatives who are just as horrified as the left at what has become of the republican party.
remember too that Obama is largely viewed by these people as an usurper, an evil-doer whose public policy positions, if implemented, will foment the end of American democracy. thus opposition to everything he does is tantamount to saving America. when the republicans recapture the presidency, America will be saved, and they can return to supporting presidential pep-talks to students and other such patriotic activities.
*and by right I mean, of course, the Palin right, not the conservatives who are just as horrified as the left at what has become of the republican party.
9
@1: The major difference is, you value education and think that a child missing school is a bad thing. To the yobbo tea baggers, school's most important aspect is getting free childcare for 9 months of the year.
Oh and apparently you know how to parent.
Oh and apparently you know how to parent.
10
the right doesn't see their hypocrisy because they view the bushes of the world as patriots, and the obamas of -- dare i say -- traitors.
then again, the left isn't much better. we view the obamas as patriots and the bushes as traitors.
each in our own way.
then again, the left isn't much better. we view the obamas as patriots and the bushes as traitors.
each in our own way.
11
i think you should be able to define Marxism before you can accuse a centrist democrat (that'd be Obama) of it.
i can define Fascist.
i can define Fascist.
12
Bullshit, Charles.
Republican President + Trumped-Up Fears = Rightwing "Patriots"
It will happen again.
Republican President + Trumped-Up Fears = Rightwing "Patriots"
It will happen again.
14
Good Morning Charles,
Your observation is intriguing. I believe ANY President (elected or not, (Gerald Ford remains the only unelected President) has a right to indoctrinate or to attempt to. That doesn't trouble me. But, I'm not so sure dismantling patriotism, destiny and myth is a good idea. It was just that kind of patriotism that was needed and a destiny that was met on D-Day (June 4th, 1944). The D in D-Day means "destiny" from "a date with destiny" that established a myth. Patriotism is good in a measured amount.
America is on the decline with or without Pres. Obama. Racism is definitely doomed. Those on the far right that are racist are also very old (probably 75 y/o & older). Their children and grandchildren are indeed growing up tolerant. While some of these parents are nutty, they have a right to be concerned with what Obama or any other President says.
Your observation is intriguing. I believe ANY President (elected or not, (Gerald Ford remains the only unelected President) has a right to indoctrinate or to attempt to. That doesn't trouble me. But, I'm not so sure dismantling patriotism, destiny and myth is a good idea. It was just that kind of patriotism that was needed and a destiny that was met on D-Day (June 4th, 1944). The D in D-Day means "destiny" from "a date with destiny" that established a myth. Patriotism is good in a measured amount.
America is on the decline with or without Pres. Obama. Racism is definitely doomed. Those on the far right that are racist are also very old (probably 75 y/o & older). Their children and grandchildren are indeed growing up tolerant. While some of these parents are nutty, they have a right to be concerned with what Obama or any other President says.
15
@10: bush started 2 wars without getting congress, who's job it is to declare war, to do so. 100s of 1000s are dead and no good has come of it. our treasury is emptied for generations. his administration silenced opposition with nationalist tactics, including accusations of treason for protestors, journalists & politicians.
obama wants to make it possible to cover the 47 million uninsured Murkins.
it is not equivalent.
obama wants to make it possible to cover the 47 million uninsured Murkins.
it is not equivalent.
16
@15 right on - this false equivalency bullshit must stop now. Remember a couple of years ago when showing up in the neighborhood of a presidential event with a progressive slogan on a tee shirt was enough to get one arrested? Now we have members of the TeaBagTerroristBrigade, (TBTB) showing up to presidential events ARMED. There is no equivalency.
@7 I agree with everything but the last sentence -
and by right I mean, of course, the Palin right, not the conservatives who are just as horrified as the left at what has become of the republican party.
I don't believe any such conservatives exist anymore - the day of the Eisenhower Republican are long gone.
@7 I agree with everything but the last sentence -
and by right I mean, of course, the Palin right, not the conservatives who are just as horrified as the left at what has become of the republican party.
I don't believe any such conservatives exist anymore - the day of the Eisenhower Republican are long gone.
17
patriotism after this moment can only return as an echo. what rightwing nutters are cutting down is not patriotism but its legitimacy. you can restore patriotism with no difficulty but its very hard restore its legitimacy. and so patriotism is doomed to return not as itself but as its echo.
18
According to the Times article, Bush DID make a speech like this:
"Other presidents, including George H.W. Bush, have given similar speeches directly to students."
I don't remember any outrage then. That speech wasn't given by a black man, however.
"Other presidents, including George H.W. Bush, have given similar speeches directly to students."
I don't remember any outrage then. That speech wasn't given by a black man, however.
19
Hmm. I agree with @7. These people view themselves as defending our country from an internal evil. So, they still see themselves as being patriotic...
Also, @11, yes. Man, would that be fun to ask one of those people what does "Marxist" mean.
Also, @11, yes. Man, would that be fun to ask one of those people what does "Marxist" mean.
20
From effin' unsound:
Federal Way conservative, circa 2006:
That is why it is important to respect the office of the president. While we disagree on politics, we cannot disagree with the fact that that person who bears that office is in fact our commander in chief. As long as we look to him for leadership, we will not have to endure civil disorder. Once we decide that we’d rather not accept him as commander in chief, then we will have trouble.
Federal Way Conservative circa 2009:
Dear Leader, an affectionate term for President Obama, is going to address his Dear Subjects in their schools on September 8. (link) I have already written my protest letter to the school my children attend. The president has no authority over the public schools, and even if he did, the schools have better things to do than host politician’s playing politics.
Like I said, there is no such thing any more as a sane, rational conservative. Savage, Malkin Bachmann, Beck - these are the faces of mainstream, modern day conservatism.
http://effinunsound.com/?p=1295
Federal Way conservative, circa 2006:
That is why it is important to respect the office of the president. While we disagree on politics, we cannot disagree with the fact that that person who bears that office is in fact our commander in chief. As long as we look to him for leadership, we will not have to endure civil disorder. Once we decide that we’d rather not accept him as commander in chief, then we will have trouble.
Federal Way Conservative circa 2009:
Dear Leader, an affectionate term for President Obama, is going to address his Dear Subjects in their schools on September 8. (link) I have already written my protest letter to the school my children attend. The president has no authority over the public schools, and even if he did, the schools have better things to do than host politician’s playing politics.
Like I said, there is no such thing any more as a sane, rational conservative. Savage, Malkin Bachmann, Beck - these are the faces of mainstream, modern day conservatism.
http://effinunsound.com/?p=1295
21
@20: FWC was right about one thing:
We've got trouble, alright.
Once we decide that we’d rather not accept him as commander in chief, then we will have trouble.
We've got trouble, alright.
22
Yeah - and the trouble is that FWC and the rest of his klan are vile, racist, brownshirted thugs.
23
I don't see a shortage of the mythic. The supply seems to have been steady for millennia. What shifts are the icons that communities use to organize their violence. The term "patriotic" identifies a category of assertive acts, violence for something. Semantically, one can argue that being for something means you are against something else, that there is an inherent negation within any assertion, but that argument sheds no light on the specific, subjective logic within patriots and patriotism. To many of these anti-Obama-ist reactionaries, their patriotism requires mythic violence to restore a rightful relation to the national icons, presently despoiled by an interloper. Of course, other strands of hyper-patriotism lead away from the state or toward violent conflict with its icons, Timothy McVeigh vs. the Federal Building, et al. My point is that the intersection between patriotism, the mythic, and violence seems quite steady to me. The names change but the mythic highs carry the same adrenaline kick to the blood.
24
charles @ 17: patriotism is already illegitimate.
but the "Birchers & Birthers" (thanks, Dan) aren't capable of applying logic to their actions - they will interpret their de-legitimizing of patriotism AS patriotism - "watering the tree of liberty".
but the "Birchers & Birthers" (thanks, Dan) aren't capable of applying logic to their actions - they will interpret their de-legitimizing of patriotism AS patriotism - "watering the tree of liberty".
25
Don't worry, the unpatriotic President-hating racist old white guys of the Whig Party are literally dying out.
26
Charles, do I have to say this in every post you make? Get your head out of your ass!
I'm left wing and I'm patriotic.
pa⋅tri⋅ot⋅ism
–noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.
I love my country. I support my country. If it were really threatened I would do everything I could to defend it. I want my country to be great. I want it to be a leader in the important issues of our day (peace, ecology, gay rights, etc). I am patriotic therefore I oppose the right-wing wackos. I am patriotic therefore I'm against the wars. I am patriotic therefore I support gay rights and health care, etc etc. That is why I, as a liberal, value patriotism.
Patriotism is not blind faith like religion. It is faith that your country can do the great things you believe in and loyalty to your ideals. I was patriotic while Bush was in office though I wholeheartedly disagreed with almost everything he did. Patriotism isn't about following a politician, it's about supporting your nation and pushing it the way you think it should go.
As for these idiots who don't want the president to tell their kids to study hard and stay in school, we can only hope that their kids grow up smarter than the parents and that the parents die young.
I'm left wing and I'm patriotic.
pa⋅tri⋅ot⋅ism
–noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.
I love my country. I support my country. If it were really threatened I would do everything I could to defend it. I want my country to be great. I want it to be a leader in the important issues of our day (peace, ecology, gay rights, etc). I am patriotic therefore I oppose the right-wing wackos. I am patriotic therefore I'm against the wars. I am patriotic therefore I support gay rights and health care, etc etc. That is why I, as a liberal, value patriotism.
Patriotism is not blind faith like religion. It is faith that your country can do the great things you believe in and loyalty to your ideals. I was patriotic while Bush was in office though I wholeheartedly disagreed with almost everything he did. Patriotism isn't about following a politician, it's about supporting your nation and pushing it the way you think it should go.
As for these idiots who don't want the president to tell their kids to study hard and stay in school, we can only hope that their kids grow up smarter than the parents and that the parents die young.
27
It's not the speech so much, it was the lesson plans. The White House revised them because even they knew they were over the top.
28
Max @15, i agree with you (except the rhetoric!). but your entire post sums up the problem. if you do the "right" thing it is patriotic. for instance, millions of americans wanted the US to invade iraq for freedom and democracy and justice and what not. these can be considered patriotic virtues that outweigh a "few" wrongs along the way.
regarding those wrongs, it is somewhat a bit of propaganda to say bush declared war without the approval of congress to imply he was a dictator who couldn't be controlled. (congress certainly approved of his actions with their resolution, and there are logical ways to reason how the acts occurred legally - enough so not to make a clear cut persuasive case.) the fact is, the right doesn't believe bush was "wrong" in those actions legally or morally, will not be convinced otherwise, and likely believes those actions were patriotic.
you feel the way you because what i wrote in my initial post is true that, and that also explains why the right feels the way they do. both sides think they are right (regardless of who is actually right), therefore neither side can understand how they are being hypocritical.
they absolutely believe democracy must be spread even at great cost. they actually believe bush did not commit impeachable offenses. they actually believe "socialized health care" will be bad for america and democracy. this is why they do not see the hypocrisy in their actions.
you argue: but we are right! this doesn't matter when asking the question, how can they be such hypocrites? they, in turn, ask the same questions of you.
regarding those wrongs, it is somewhat a bit of propaganda to say bush declared war without the approval of congress to imply he was a dictator who couldn't be controlled. (congress certainly approved of his actions with their resolution, and there are logical ways to reason how the acts occurred legally - enough so not to make a clear cut persuasive case.) the fact is, the right doesn't believe bush was "wrong" in those actions legally or morally, will not be convinced otherwise, and likely believes those actions were patriotic.
you feel the way you because what i wrote in my initial post is true that, and that also explains why the right feels the way they do. both sides think they are right (regardless of who is actually right), therefore neither side can understand how they are being hypocritical.
they absolutely believe democracy must be spread even at great cost. they actually believe bush did not commit impeachable offenses. they actually believe "socialized health care" will be bad for america and democracy. this is why they do not see the hypocrisy in their actions.
you argue: but we are right! this doesn't matter when asking the question, how can they be such hypocrites? they, in turn, ask the same questions of you.
30
@ 27,
Have you read the lesson plan? Basically for Pre-k to 6th grade kids are asked 'who is the President' and 'what is he talking about' and 'what are your goals for the future' (what do you want to be when you grow up). For grades 7-12 ditto along with 'what are my strengths/weaknesses' and 'what was the historic moment did the president speak at' and 'what is the impact'. Along with brainstorming in groups of 2. The only thing the White House should be ashamed of is how totally lame their lesson plan was.
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/p…
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/7…
Have you read the lesson plan? Basically for Pre-k to 6th grade kids are asked 'who is the President' and 'what is he talking about' and 'what are your goals for the future' (what do you want to be when you grow up). For grades 7-12 ditto along with 'what are my strengths/weaknesses' and 'what was the historic moment did the president speak at' and 'what is the impact'. Along with brainstorming in groups of 2. The only thing the White House should be ashamed of is how totally lame their lesson plan was.
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/p…
http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/7…
31
@ 1 "critical thinking"
That is the answer here, and I think the fear mongers (not just the right, because there are many independents and rogues who are along with the far right on this) are scared that their children cannot think for themselves.
Many of these types are from small towns. They already are xenophobic, even if they don't know it or admit it. Many extremists see the left (w/ recent focus specifically on the O-admin) as an evil entity that is more advanced then they are, and they don't want to be duped. The don't want to have to prepare the answers in advance to those questions that their kid might have for them that evening.
A lot of this fear, at least in some cases, is due to the parents themselves being uneducated, and a lot of child rearing in rural areas involves the child accepting what adults (family, other parents, the POTUS, the teacher, etc) are telling them to be true and unchallenged.
The fear mongers know basic terms like Communism, Fascism, Marx, and Hitler. Since it is so black and white to them, they only see Socialism at an extreme angle. Many of these birther types only know Communism through its most disastrous practices and not simply for the ideology "the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, or stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general" which in itself is not necessarily disastrous. Henceforth they don't want to learn more about the philosophy of socialism, or accept that the tax system itself is a form of socialism. Mind you, I am a democrat that leans independent, and I personally do not believe that an Communist state can work. However, I do believe in the tax system. I do agree with the philosophy of taxing the rich as well as certain industries to help the poor.
If these fear mongers could see that, maybe they would change their minds about not wanting a public health care option.
What is good now though, is the fact that we have had the internet as a household commodity now for nearly 2 decades spreading up to date knowldge, schools have been integrated for several generations, we have a democrat in the white house again - and we elected the first black president. The republican party is in shambles and they are totally resorting to media tactics since none of their REAL politicians tackle a leadership position. Its all about those right wing talk shows and FOX "news", you know.
More...
That is the answer here, and I think the fear mongers (not just the right, because there are many independents and rogues who are along with the far right on this) are scared that their children cannot think for themselves.
Many of these types are from small towns. They already are xenophobic, even if they don't know it or admit it. Many extremists see the left (w/ recent focus specifically on the O-admin) as an evil entity that is more advanced then they are, and they don't want to be duped. The don't want to have to prepare the answers in advance to those questions that their kid might have for them that evening.
A lot of this fear, at least in some cases, is due to the parents themselves being uneducated, and a lot of child rearing in rural areas involves the child accepting what adults (family, other parents, the POTUS, the teacher, etc) are telling them to be true and unchallenged.
The fear mongers know basic terms like Communism, Fascism, Marx, and Hitler. Since it is so black and white to them, they only see Socialism at an extreme angle. Many of these birther types only know Communism through its most disastrous practices and not simply for the ideology "the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, or stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general" which in itself is not necessarily disastrous. Henceforth they don't want to learn more about the philosophy of socialism, or accept that the tax system itself is a form of socialism. Mind you, I am a democrat that leans independent, and I personally do not believe that an Communist state can work. However, I do believe in the tax system. I do agree with the philosophy of taxing the rich as well as certain industries to help the poor.
If these fear mongers could see that, maybe they would change their minds about not wanting a public health care option.
What is good now though, is the fact that we have had the internet as a household commodity now for nearly 2 decades spreading up to date knowldge, schools have been integrated for several generations, we have a democrat in the white house again - and we elected the first black president. The republican party is in shambles and they are totally resorting to media tactics since none of their REAL politicians tackle a leadership position. Its all about those right wing talk shows and FOX "news", you know.
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