Friday, September 4, 2009
Life PETA's Show Goes On
Posted by Unpaid Intern on Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:36 PM
By news intern Garrett McCulloch
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals drew the usual mix of eye rolls, middle fingers and supportive car horns as they protested the Ringling Bros., Barnum and Bailey Circus's visit to the ShoWare Center in Kent yesterday.
A lawsuit pending in federal court alleges the same kind of abuse shown in PETA's video. And it's not the first time the circus has found itself in legal trouble. A trainer was tried on criminal animal abuse charges in 2001 for alleged use of a bullhook (he was acquitted), and Ringling Bros. has been sued for cruelty numerous times, once being ordered to pay animal-rights groups $20,000. "I think we're going to be in good shape," says Nancy Pennington, an activist who also works to release elephants from Woodland Park Zoo. "If the judgment goes against Ringling, that will effectively shut down the circus." Of course, the sort of abuse that looks offensive to humans—using bullhooks—may not constitute animal abuse, particularly considering courts have ruled against PETA in the past.
And last night was tinged with the same kind of self-righteous attitude. Pennington called the crowd "idiots" at one point, and protesters tried to demonize the people in line, encouraging kids to tell their parents not to take them to the circus to "watch the animals get beat," at which point several children looked up at their parents as if they were secretly taking them into a public execution. Most of the parents likely aren't even aware of the abuse allegations though. "I don't know, I haven't seen it," said one man as he walked by in line. Some people took and read PETA's flyers, but most of the group's chants of "Ringling Beats Animals" went ignored. Three-ring chants don't go far when you've blown most of your credibility.
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1
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
PETA’s “Animal Record” report for 2008, filed with the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, shows that the animal rights group killed 95 percent of the dogs and cats in its care last year. During all of 2008, PETA found adoptive homes for just seven pets.
PETA’s “Animal Record” report for 2008, filed with the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, shows that the animal rights group killed 95 percent of the dogs and cats in its care last year. During all of 2008, PETA found adoptive homes for just seven pets.
2
Ah, PETA - providing 99% of the hare-brained, psychopathic stereotypes of vegetarians and animal-lovers.
3
Nothing says love like a full length mink coat. I have 12 and love 'em all!!
And don't even get me started on the shear beauty of my silver fox jacket. It just screams sporty!!
And don't even get me started on the shear beauty of my silver fox jacket. It just screams sporty!!
5
I don't think PETA goes too far when it comes to circus animals. The animals perform tricks as a result of being abused; PETA is telling the truth to the uneducated. The truth makes people upset. People don't want to give up things they like, no matter what the origin or consequences. So they blame the messenger. The end.
6
@5: People don't like being lectured by a pack of hypocritical, histrionic know-nothing prats. The end.
7
"And last night was tinged with the same kind of self-righteous attitude. Pennington called the crowd "idiots" at one point, and protesters tried to demonize the people in line"
Uh...doesn't this describe the attitude of the Stranger's writers, esp Dan Savage?
Uh...doesn't this describe the attitude of the Stranger's writers, esp Dan Savage?
8
For all the complaints about PETA's insanity, half of it is invented wholesale by people who like complaining about PETA. For example, the Obama-fly thing. Here you talk about PETA "protesting" that. What actually happened is that PETA put up a blog post about it. The blog post basically says "Okay, a whole bunch of media outlets keep asking us what our take on Obama's fly-swat is, and so obviously our position is that in a perfect world things like that wouldn't happen. Also, we're sending a no-kill trap to Obama for free."
That's it. But of course the story gets told the way that people had already decided to tell it, when they were contacting PETA to ask about their position: the story is that those animal-rights whackos are out on the streets screaming bloody murder because Obama swatted a fly.
PETA does a lot of silly shit, but as the Obama fly swat thing shows, we don't really PETA to actually do something stupid; people are fully willing to invent PETA stupidity when they don't oblige in providing it themselves. Our society is pretty attached to relying on PETA as a scapegoat to prevent them from having to take animal rights seriously.
(Reuters' article on PETA and the fly swat: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/i… )
That's it. But of course the story gets told the way that people had already decided to tell it, when they were contacting PETA to ask about their position: the story is that those animal-rights whackos are out on the streets screaming bloody murder because Obama swatted a fly.
PETA does a lot of silly shit, but as the Obama fly swat thing shows, we don't really PETA to actually do something stupid; people are fully willing to invent PETA stupidity when they don't oblige in providing it themselves. Our society is pretty attached to relying on PETA as a scapegoat to prevent them from having to take animal rights seriously.
(Reuters' article on PETA and the fly swat: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/i… )
9
I've always hated circuses for their treatment of animals. Even if they don't get beat, are well fed, hydrated, and exercised -- it's a shameful exploitation. I'm with PETA on this one.
10
@8, sorry, Cephi, you're making your own point for us. People who think that flies shouldn't be swatted in a "perfect world" are full of shit. And PETA does immeasurable damage to the cause of preventing animal cruelty. They permit people who beat elephants to dismiss their critics with "pfft, they want to protect flies", and people who might otherwise be persuaded to oppose elephant beating agree with them instead.
That website about PETA's prodigious pet-killing is pretty damning as well.
That website about PETA's prodigious pet-killing is pretty damning as well.
11
@10 "And PETA does immeasurable damage to the cause of preventing animal cruelty. They permit people who beat elephants to dismiss their critics with 'pfft, they want to protect flies'"
Damned PETA! You and the rest of society, you want to take animal rights seriously SO BADLY, but you just can't -- because of that filthy PETA! Bad PETA! Bad!
Aw shit, now I'm eating at KFC and buying Ringling tickets. This is PETA's fault! LOOK AT WHAT YOU MADE ME DO TO THE ANIMALS YOU HEARTLESS BASTARDS
rinse, repeat, forever, etc.
Damned PETA! You and the rest of society, you want to take animal rights seriously SO BADLY, but you just can't -- because of that filthy PETA! Bad PETA! Bad!
Aw shit, now I'm eating at KFC and buying Ringling tickets. This is PETA's fault! LOOK AT WHAT YOU MADE ME DO TO THE ANIMALS YOU HEARTLESS BASTARDS
rinse, repeat, forever, etc.
12
@11-You're getting defensive, but Fnarf is right. Sometimes PETA does have a point that would appeal to a broader audience than just their own vegan fundamentalist faithful, as in the case of Ringling brothers. I went to the circus when I was little, and after hearing this I feel disinclined to take my own kids some day. However, the histrionic tone of many of their protests and their insistence that beating highly intelligent animals with hooks is the same as eating halibut means that no one listens to them even when they do.
13
i agree that peta's antics cause them to lose credibility. that means i am less likely to believe peta when they say things. when they make statements, i am likely to wonder if what they are saying is merely propaganda, or even if they found a rare exception to exploit. if peta had more credibility, i'd be more likely to believe them.
people in general seem to be against cruelty to animals. reasonably demonstrating this seems to convince people. despite the passing of some policies and despite some social norms changing in a way that is aligned with peta's belief set, i'm left thinking it was more of a coincidence than the direct result of peta's actions.
the tossing fish complaint would be another fine example. when it comes to that, and flies, peta should stick to "we have no comment."
people in general seem to be against cruelty to animals. reasonably demonstrating this seems to convince people. despite the passing of some policies and despite some social norms changing in a way that is aligned with peta's belief set, i'm left thinking it was more of a coincidence than the direct result of peta's actions.
the tossing fish complaint would be another fine example. when it comes to that, and flies, peta should stick to "we have no comment."
14
@12 - You're missing the point. I don't care about PETA, and I have no interest in defending them. You think they suck, fine, yes, they suck. My point is that people like you use PETA as an excuse not to take AR seriously. Whether PETA is full of idiots has no bearing on what you yourself should do, buy, or eat. And yet, start an animal rights conversation with anyone not into AR, and they will inevitably funnel the conversation into an indictment of PETA, as though the fact that PETA is stupid somehow shows that they don't need to challenge their own choices about what they do, buy or eat.
Your post shows the same dynamic as Fnarf's: you portray yourself as wanting to take AR seriously, but dag nabbit, PETA won't let you do it.
This same dynamic appears in all sorts of debates. Don't like a certain position or group? Find someone in that position or group who is a stupid extremist, and point at them really hard. Congratulations, you've just validated your own position!
Your post shows the same dynamic as Fnarf's: you portray yourself as wanting to take AR seriously, but dag nabbit, PETA won't let you do it.
This same dynamic appears in all sorts of debates. Don't like a certain position or group? Find someone in that position or group who is a stupid extremist, and point at them really hard. Congratulations, you've just validated your own position!
15
@11, what you're not getting is that you're meant to be persuading me, not putting me off. Remember? I'm the bad flyswatting, circus-attending (in theory) pig whose behavior you want to change. If your position is that I like ideological purity, you win, but you don't get a prize. If you want those people walking into the circus tent to turn around, you're going to have to give them a reason. If your sign says "PETA" on it, unfortunately, it no longer matters how good your argument is.
It's sort of like NAMBLA demonstrating for gay marriage. People who want gay marriage wish they'd stay home; they're hurting the cause.
It's sort of like NAMBLA demonstrating for gay marriage. People who want gay marriage wish they'd stay home; they're hurting the cause.
16
@15 Haha! "You're meant to be persuading me, not putting me off" Now it's MY fault you don't take AR seriously. I went and "put you off". Sorry, I don't plan to respond to the implied threat that you'll go buy a Ringling ticket unless I stroke your dick.
Reject AR if you want. Embrace AR if you want. I don't give a shit. But either way, just take fucking responsibility for your own positions. Don't point at me, or PETA, or anyone else to excuse yourself for not supporting animal rights. Have some personal responsibility, as the republican kids are saying these days.
Reject AR if you want. Embrace AR if you want. I don't give a shit. But either way, just take fucking responsibility for your own positions. Don't point at me, or PETA, or anyone else to excuse yourself for not supporting animal rights. Have some personal responsibility, as the republican kids are saying these days.
17
@16 you are really missing the point in this thread. i just wanted to let you know as an observer of the exchange that your posts are not as clever or convincing as you seem to think they are.
19
Fnarf @15: "It's sort of like NAMBLA demonstrating for gay marriage. "
Totally. Vegan Survey Says: STFU PETA.
Totally. Vegan Survey Says: STFU PETA.
20
@17 No, I got the point. It was to argue that PETA is ineffective due to their extremism. I got it. My point was that (i) that extremism is there, but is just as often invented (as in the myth of angry protests over the Obama fly-swatting), and that (ii) the reason for this is that people use PETA as a scapegoat to avoid having to think about animal rights in any in-depth way.
And my point (ii) is getting played out perfectly, in miniature, in these comments, most recently by you. How clever or convincing I am has nothing to do with whether my position is correct. But I'll offer a passive-aggressive thanks for your passive-aggressive feedback.
And my point (ii) is getting played out perfectly, in miniature, in these comments, most recently by you. How clever or convincing I am has nothing to do with whether my position is correct. But I'll offer a passive-aggressive thanks for your passive-aggressive feedback.
22
@21 You're lying. If that stuff could really change your mind, then PETA's naked model protests would've already convinced you.
23
I have gone to the circus plenty of times with my kids and witnessed these nabobs everytime. The elephants Ringling uses are primarily Asian Elephants, not African, and they are domestically raised, not taken from the wild. The literature the kids (always kids) hand out always talks about how much room wild elephants need to survive in the wild. My reaction is always WTF. Wild asian elephants are critically endangered because the conditions as written in the literature no longer exist in Asia. Asian elephants in places like Thailand are domesticated work animals. You think anyplace in Southeast Asia has any rules what-so-fucking ever about how to treat work animals? You think PETA is mean to elephants, what do you think some poor Thai farmer does to his fellow humans, never mind the elephants.
PETA is a joke, and they present a delusional fantasy that doesn't exist in exchange for a real discussion on proper treatment of domesticated animals in a civilized country like the US. Ringling spends more money on elephant care and conservation each year than PETA has in entire budget. Ringling raises more baby elephants each year than all the zoos in North America combined, raising many more elephants than is needed for attrition from their shows just to maintain the gene pool of an endangered species, and takes better care of them than those elephants would ever get in their native countries.
The last circus I went to had a cute show with rats sitting on cats sitting on dogs. All those animals were taken from shelters and would have been euthanized. Anybody who watches Penn & Teller knows what PETA does with shelter animals. Fuck PETA, they are hypocrites and liars.
Yeah, Ringling has a history with bad employees. So does every employer. Weed them out, but we don't need PETA to do that.
More...
PETA is a joke, and they present a delusional fantasy that doesn't exist in exchange for a real discussion on proper treatment of domesticated animals in a civilized country like the US. Ringling spends more money on elephant care and conservation each year than PETA has in entire budget. Ringling raises more baby elephants each year than all the zoos in North America combined, raising many more elephants than is needed for attrition from their shows just to maintain the gene pool of an endangered species, and takes better care of them than those elephants would ever get in their native countries.
The last circus I went to had a cute show with rats sitting on cats sitting on dogs. All those animals were taken from shelters and would have been euthanized. Anybody who watches Penn & Teller knows what PETA does with shelter animals. Fuck PETA, they are hypocrites and liars.
Yeah, Ringling has a history with bad employees. So does every employer. Weed them out, but we don't need PETA to do that.
24
PeTA absolutely disgusts me.
I'm a very animal rights oriented person - I live as cruelty-free as I possibly can, using what knowledge I have and taking into account the circumstances in which I live.
These awful people have completely hijacked the cause for their own twisted ends, and have forced me into a defensive position rather than one where I might be able to have an impact beyond my front door.
I'm not a lunatic. I do what works for my family and is also humane to the animals and the environment. I don't get up in people's faces about what they eat/wear.
People come into my home and eat good (no, great!) food and see my happy, healthy kids running all over the place and that shows them that it can be done without any difficulty, but fucking PeTA has made SO MANY resist the idea of conversion because they don't want to be lumped in with the likes of them. And after fifteen fucking years of having to apologize for their ridiculous, abusive bullshit, I can understand why.
I used to go protest the circus at Key Arena but the amount of heckling and abuse I endured while standing there, (as far away from the PeTA nuts as possible), showed me that thanks to PeTA, the majority of the mainstream population is unreachable.
Way to go, guys.
I'm a very animal rights oriented person - I live as cruelty-free as I possibly can, using what knowledge I have and taking into account the circumstances in which I live.
These awful people have completely hijacked the cause for their own twisted ends, and have forced me into a defensive position rather than one where I might be able to have an impact beyond my front door.
I'm not a lunatic. I do what works for my family and is also humane to the animals and the environment. I don't get up in people's faces about what they eat/wear.
People come into my home and eat good (no, great!) food and see my happy, healthy kids running all over the place and that shows them that it can be done without any difficulty, but fucking PeTA has made SO MANY resist the idea of conversion because they don't want to be lumped in with the likes of them. And after fifteen fucking years of having to apologize for their ridiculous, abusive bullshit, I can understand why.
I used to go protest the circus at Key Arena but the amount of heckling and abuse I endured while standing there, (as far away from the PeTA nuts as possible), showed me that thanks to PeTA, the majority of the mainstream population is unreachable.
Way to go, guys.
25
In New York when the Ringling Bros circus comes to town, it parades its elephants from Queens to New York through the midtown tunnel and down 34th street. It happens late at night and it's pretty surreal - what with elephants walking down the middle of a city street in Manhattan.
You can picture it - a bunch of delighted drunks running along the sidewalks to keep up with the elephants' pace, and PETA folks with signs, trying to change the everyone's worldview.
That conversation goes like this:
PETA: They're abused!
Drunk: Who cares! Are you fucking seeing this?!!!
You can picture it - a bunch of delighted drunks running along the sidewalks to keep up with the elephants' pace, and PETA folks with signs, trying to change the everyone's worldview.
That conversation goes like this:
PETA: They're abused!
Drunk: Who cares! Are you fucking seeing this?!!!
26
Exactly. This is why most of the animal rights advocates that I know FUCKING HATE PETA. Because people dismiss any and everythign that all of us have to say due to their idiocy.
27
But there are at least over a million members who just LOVE PETA and this grandmother is one of them. If it was not for PETA, the animals would be in worse shape than they are now. They are so avant-garde and eventually detractors copy them.
I have seen this happen with The Stranger, a newspaper I have read for more than 20 years. There are still people today who turn their head in disgust but it's an avant-garde paper and it's been copied by others. It lives because it ethically speaks the truth. PETA will live because truth prevails. Long live PETA! Vive PETA!
I have seen this happen with The Stranger, a newspaper I have read for more than 20 years. There are still people today who turn their head in disgust but it's an avant-garde paper and it's been copied by others. It lives because it ethically speaks the truth. PETA will live because truth prevails. Long live PETA! Vive PETA!
28
Where is my comment? The one I sent I believe last Saturday. I had said that if it was not for PETA the animals all over the world would be in pretty bad shape! Long live PETA!
I had also said that like PETA, the Stranger which I have read for more than 20 years was always avant-garde!
I had also said that like PETA, the Stranger which I have read for more than 20 years was always avant-garde!
29
Oops! I guess my comment was there! Sorry dear Stranger! Now I have 3 comments altogether! Wow! You can't shut me up when it concerns animal abuse and suffering!
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